NationStates Jolt Archive


Belgium divided as Flanders pushes for a messy divorce

Edwinasia
02-10-2007, 11:23
Belgium divided as Flanders pushes for a messy divorce

At least that’s what the Guardian (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,2170156,00.html) is saying.

I’m Belgian and it’s fun to read what foreign news sources are saying about the political crisis.

Most of the news is completely over the top, and so is the article in the Guardian.

Our country will not divide. At least not now. Maybe in 2050 or 2442, I don’t know, but not now.

The article in the Guardian is suggesting that talking French is dangerous these days, sure... :)

Well, hundred thousands of Flemish have to work in Brussels every day. The majority in Brussels is speaking French. And nobody is fighting with each other.

The common people are not afraid and look at it as ‘une autre histoire Belge’

But it is teaching me something about the product ‘news’. Not that it is that new to me, but it’s again proving that my feelings about news are right.

Why are they blowing it up? Few Earth people are interested in Belgian politics. So the media wouldn’t hurt anyone to tell the truth.

I’m wondering, what’s the value of the other news items now? The ones I can’t check, the ones I don’t have a clue about?
Risottia
02-10-2007, 11:34
I’m Belgian

Excuse me, are you Flemish or Walloon?
I get that usually the Flemish are the separatist hard-core, aren't they?
Edwinasia
02-10-2007, 11:40
Excuse me, are you Flemish or Walloon?
I get that usually the Flemish are the separatist hard-core, aren't they?

That's what your news is telling you, yes.

But hell no, the Flemish in general are not separatists one, not even hard-core. :)

Sure, a very small minority is out to blow up the country, but you'll find such people in any country.

I believe that in Italy there are also people that wish that the north would divorce from the south, no?

A few years ago, I had some Californian visitors in my house, those guys wished that their state would go for independency…

Some Scottish are thinking they should say good-bye to the UK as well...
Barringtonia
02-10-2007, 11:47
That's what your news is telling you, yes.

But hell no, the Flemish in general are not separatists one, not even hard-core. :)

Sure, a very small minority is out to blow up the country, but you'll find such people in any country.

I believe that in Italy there are also people that wish that the north would divorce from the south, no?

A few years ago, I had some Californian visitors in my house, those guys wished that their state would go for independency…

Some Scottish are thinking they should say good-bye to the UK as well...

The poll, in the Flemish language newspaper Het Laatste Nieuws, finds nearly one in two Flemish voters (46.1%) want to see Belgium split in two: that is unprecedented. A slightly larger number (49.6%) want the country to stay together. A shade over 65% of Flemish respondents think that the country will split sooner or later.

Not exactly a tiny minority of Flemish people.

Of course, for all I know, Het Laatse Nieuws (The Late News?) is a fascist Flemish publication though I doubt it.

There's certainly a large debate, it's not as though there's no discussion going on and the political stalemate excaberates that.
The Alma Mater
02-10-2007, 11:47
Of course, for all I know, Het Laatse Nieuws (The Late News?) is a fascist Flemish publication though I doubt it.

"The latest news" ;) And it is a gossipy-like sensationseeking newspaper with more liberal than fascist leanings. The gossipy/sensationseeking of course does not mean it is wrong; just that many people tend to not take it very seriously.
Edwinasia
02-10-2007, 11:55
Not exactly a tiny minority of Flemish people.

Of course, for all I know, Het Laatse Nieuws (The Late News?) is a fascist Flemish publication though I doubt it.

There's certainly a large debate, it's not as though there's no discussion going on and the political stalemate excaberates that.

No, the Laatste Nieuws is not a fascist paper. We don’t have fascist newspapers.

“The Laatste News” is a popular mainstream newspaper that likes to shoot with sensational head lines.

I consider it as a Hillbilly paper. Easy-reading short articles, lots of pictures, big headlines.

Recognize the style?

That same paper predicted a big lose and win for certain parties. They used a phone poll as well. The actual results of the real voting were completely different.

And it’s not the first time, that they have shot the wrong horse.

It’s safe to say that their polls are not trustable.

There are lies, big lies and polls.

Btw, maybe the Laatste Nieuws was spreading 'news' about the advantages of a divorce in the days before the poll...
Or they just used a certain tone, that's enough to influence the sheep.

Trust me, the divorce is not an issue for the common people. Sure, I met people who like the idea, but in general people say ‘We are already that small, we don’t want this”
Lapalam
02-10-2007, 12:19
You're right, in Italy there is a separatistic feeling among some people (and i live in the north, where this separatistic party has its majour supporters). I don't really know what foreign press is telling you about this party, but INSIDE italy, this party has got a newspaper and a lot of internet sites that talk about it and express its way of thinking.
I fear this people, they're quite aggressive, even if they're not the majority (and i think they'll never be), their spirit is quite strong. But the thing that makes me afraid of them is their lack of reasoning and lack of patience. If you try to talk with one (or more, 'cause they usually come in groups and get strenght out of it) you can see their narrow minded way of thinking. For whatever you think: "they're right", that's all. And there's no way you could make 'em change their mind (and i assure you i have tried).
Sorry if i go out of topic for a moment, but just to be clear in my later explanation:
in the beginning this party claimed a celtic origin of the northen italian people, with all celtic rites and religions;
now that the "enemy" to fight is islamic terrorism, they keep on saying they're "proud of being christian".
And you can point out this stupid thing (there are far more fundamental things they change daily), but what you get?! offenses, violence (i can prove it) or infamy.
And this last thing brings us back to the point.
People are selfish, this makes them hungry of power, little people who can't have real power, drink its surrogate: "the illusion of being better than others".
Press and mainly television live on this. Gossip and false truths are our new food.
In order to sell more, press and television tend to absorb the questions people ask and answer with the cheapest product they can come up to (wether true or not).
I'm not saying there's a subliminal message in every spot or that there's a mind over us that controls us, i'm just saying that we are little beings with little expectations, the readers' expectation is to see that they are safe and they can have their "hour of hate", the publisher's expectations are to sell more copies.
Simple thoughts for simple beings.
(sorry for the length of my intervention ...)
Grovelliska
02-10-2007, 12:19
The 'news' is a product like any other, and they want to sell as much of it as they can.

The difference is that, unlike most products, none of it has to be real.
Isidoor
02-10-2007, 12:34
Not exactly a tiny minority of Flemish people.

Of course, for all I know, Het Laatse Nieuws (The Late News?) is a fascist Flemish publication though I doubt it.

There's certainly a large debate, it's not as though there's no discussion going on and the political stalemate excaberates that.

most polls with those results are somewhat biased (the last news is quite sensationalist, comparable to a tabloid), especially if you take into account the current crisis. If you'll ask again in a year of so with better questions you'd get more nuanced ideas.
HC Eredivisie
02-10-2007, 12:39
Do we want you back after those 160 years?:p
Edwinasia
02-10-2007, 12:44
most polls with those results are somewhat biased (the last news is quite sensationalist, comparable to a tabloid), especially if you take into account the current crisis. If you'll ask again in a year of so with better questions you'd get more nuanced ideas.

Yep. Or we'll ask this question when the king dies...

When the last king died, the same silly poodles that voted 'yes - separate Belgium' came in hordes to say a last hello.

F*cking hypocrits :)
Delator
02-10-2007, 12:45
An opinion poll last month found 45 per cent of Flemish people in favour of the disintegration of Belgium against 20 per cent of Walloons.

Works out to about 35% overall.

Sounds like Belgium's politicians aren't paying much attention to their people.

Of course...this is hardly news, nor is it confined to Belgium.
Edwinasia
02-10-2007, 12:47
Do we want you back after those 160 years?:p

Eh? We willen niet terug. Vergeet niet dat een haveloze bende jullie legertje versloeg in die tijd. :)

Als we splitsen dan is het om alleen te zijn. Ik zou nooit een hollander willen zijn :)
Edwinasia
02-10-2007, 14:44
You're right, in Italy there is a separatistic feeling among some people (and i live in the north, where this separatistic party has its majour supporters). I don't really know what foreign press is telling you about this party, but INSIDE italy, this party has got a newspaper and a lot of internet sites that talk about it and express its way of thinking.


Were they not part of the big right alliance with Berlusconi?

I fear this people, they're quite aggressive, even if they're not the majority (and i think they'll never be), their spirit is quite strong. But the thing that makes me afraid of them is their lack of reasoning and lack of patience. If you try to talk with one (or more, 'cause they usually come in groups and get strenght out of it) you can see their narrow minded way of thinking. For whatever you think: "they're right", that's all. And there's no way you could make 'em change their mind (and i assure you i have tried).

Smells like the techniques of 'our' Vlaams Belang. This party has also a polished shiny side. Men in nice suits, talking and behaving nicely when some camera is turning (well, at least most of the time)


Sorry if i go out of topic for a moment, but just to be clear in my later explanation:
in the beginning this party claimed a celtic origin of the northen italian people, with all celtic rites and religions;
now that the "enemy" to fight is islamic terrorism, they keep on saying they're "proud of being christian".

And you can point out this stupid thing (there are far more fundamental things they change daily), but what you get?! offenses, violence (i can prove it) or infamy.

And this last thing brings us back to the point.
People are selfish, this makes them hungry of power, little people who can't have real power, drink its surrogate: "the illusion of being better than others".
Press and mainly television live on this. Gossip and false truths are our new food.
In order to sell more, press and television tend to absorb the questions people ask and answer with the cheapest product they can come up to (wether true or not).
I'm not saying there's a subliminal message in every spot or that there's a mind over us that controls us, i'm just saying that we are little beings with little expectations, the readers' expectation is to see that they are safe and they can have their "hour of hate", the publisher's expectations are to sell more copies.
Simple thoughts for simple beings.
(sorry for the length of my intervention ...)


Look to CNN, Fox News, BBC and Al Jazeera.

They all bring more or less the same news, but the tone and style is so different in such way that it feels you're receiving news.

Even trustable sources with a high reputation are singing this sad song.

You know, the last few days, lots of foreign friends called or mailed me, asking if I'm alright, that I'm in safety. One asked: "Do you think the Walloons and Flemish will have a war?"

Hehe. :)
Pirated Corsairs
02-10-2007, 14:45
Stupid Flanders.
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/2/2a/222px-C-flanders.png
The Alma Mater
02-10-2007, 14:50
Do we want you back after those 160 years?:p

Mwaoh. Flanders for Fryslan ;) ?
OceanDrive2
02-10-2007, 14:59
Excuse me, are you Flemish or Walloon? I was about to ask the same question.. did they ever answer? :confused:
IDF
02-10-2007, 15:09
Stupid Flanders.
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/2/2a/222px-C-flanders.png

You beat me to it.:(
Edwinasia
02-10-2007, 15:21
I was about to ask the same question.. did they ever answer? :confused:


I am an extremist separatist. :)

No, but I'm Flemish
Edwinasia
02-10-2007, 15:26
Stupid Flanders.
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/2/2a/222px-C-flanders.png

Ned Flanders has nothing to do with the region in Belgium but everything with the hometown of Matt Groening: Flanders St. in Portland, Oregon
Miodrag Superior
02-10-2007, 15:36
Flanders has been sustaining lazy Walloons for way too long.
HC Eredivisie
02-10-2007, 16:22
Eh? We willen niet terug. Vergeet niet dat een haveloze bende jullie legertje versloeg in die tijd. :)

Als we splitsen dan is het om alleen te zijn. Ik zou nooit een hollander willen zijn :)
Legertje? Dat waren alleen maar de lokale Brabeau's (ik wou zeggen dorpsgekken, maar dat is iedereen daar:p).

Maar je wordt ook geen Hollander, je wordt een Nederlander.;)
[NS]Khaban
02-10-2007, 16:43
Eh? We willen niet terug. Vergeet niet dat een haveloze bende jullie legertje versloeg in die tijd. :)

Als we splitsen dan is het om alleen te zijn. Ik zou nooit een hollander willen zijn :)

De belgen hebben de nederlanders niet verslaan, eerder omgekeerd: in 10 dagen versloeg het nederlandse leger de belgische opstandelingen.
Wij kregen daarna gewoon hulp van frankrijk die op hun beurt de nederlanders uit belgie smeet.
Miodrag Superior
02-10-2007, 16:53
It is time to divide the so-called Netherlands

into the Roman-Catholic south to join Flanders,

a Moslem-agnostic north,

and Enkhuizen as the seat of Herformde/Gereformeerde alliance

that can keep old Maletrix, awka (also wrongly known as) "Bea"trix.
Pacificville
02-10-2007, 17:02
But his wife is dead, how can he divorce her posthumously?
Cosmopoles
02-10-2007, 17:07
The Economist ran a good article (http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9767681) on this the other week, suggesting that dividing the country was the best way to deal with the current inability to form a government.
Heilegenberg
02-10-2007, 17:19
But who will take care of Wallonia?
Lapalam
02-10-2007, 17:20
Were they not part of the big right alliance with Berlusconi?
right ... after having said the worst things about him and his party ... but, there again, power is what counts ...

Smells like the techniques of 'our' Vlaams Belang. This party has also a polished shiny side. Men in nice suits, talking and behaving nicely when some camera is turning (well, at least most of the time)
they don't even need this side, here the ones who follow them seem to appreciate them more, the worst they behave ... i think your Belang was with "our" (not mine) Borghezio in that episode with policemen arresting some euro-parliamentarians for a racist-xenophobic demonstration ... this episode was brought as an example of "Euro-communism" by his followers ... i now laugh about it ... but i still fear them ...

Look to CNN, Fox News, BBC and Al Jazeera.

They all bring more or less the same news, but the tone and style is so different in such way that it feels you're receiving news.

Even trustable sources with a high reputation are singing this sad song.

You know, the last few days, lots of foreign friends called or mailed me, asking if I'm alright, that I'm in safety. One asked: "Do you think the Walloons and Flemish will have a war?"

Hehe. :)
You're right ... but the worst thing in here is that media scream out the internal "malcontent" of this people as if it was the malcontent of the entire italian population ... and i don't know why ... maybe for distraction ... maybe for selling ... but it's really stupid and dangerous ...
Evil Turnips
02-10-2007, 17:35
Really in these cases it's the children that I'm worried for. I mean, Luxemburg will be scarred for life...
The Alma Mater
02-10-2007, 17:37
Really in these cases it's the children that I'm worried for. I mean, Luxemburg will be scarred for life...

Being part of the Vlawanelux ?
Evil Turnips
02-10-2007, 17:42
Being part of the Vlawanelux ?

If we want to pretend I put that much thought into my vaguely offensive post, yes, that is the reason.
Miodrag Superior
02-10-2007, 17:50
There won't be the "wa" there, as France will suction in Wallonie in a matter of hours. :rolleyes:

It has even dragged a jungle in Sotuh America, Guyanne Francaise, into the European (?!!) Union, as an integral territory of France. :confused:
Heilegenberg
02-10-2007, 17:53
There won't be the "wa" there, as France will suction in Wallonie in a matter of hours. :rolleyes:


I wouldn't be so sure about that. France already have so many inefficient state employees and people on welfare that we can't afford to pay for Wallonia as well. ;)
Miodrag Superior
02-10-2007, 18:11
It's not about what you want. It will be dumped on you like a found child. Quebec may follow suit.
OceanDrive2
02-10-2007, 18:21
I am an extremist separatist. :)

No, but I'm Flemishon the other hand

I am an extremist separatist ebil terrorwist.. but I am not Flemish :D

FTW :D :mp5::sniper::mp5::mp5:
Dundee-Fienn
02-10-2007, 18:25
It's not about what you want. It will be dumped on you like a found child. Quebec may follow suit.

France has no obligation to either
Edwinasia
03-10-2007, 07:34
There won't be the "wa" there, as France will suction in Wallonie in a matter of hours. :rolleyes:

It has even dragged a jungle in Sotuh America, Guyanne Francaise, into the European (?!!) Union, as an integral territory of France. :confused:

France isn't interested. They look down on the Walloons.
Ce sont des petites Belges.

And Wallonia isn't exactly a cash cow, it would cost France tons of money.
Risottia
03-10-2007, 09:42
Sure, a very small minority is out to blow up the country, but you'll find such people in any country.
I believe that in Italy there are also people that wish that the north would divorce from the south, no?
Yes, the Northern League (former Lombard League); also, there are Southerners who want the South to secede and create again the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies. :eek:

A few years ago, I had some Californian visitors in my house, those guys wished that their state would go for independency…
Hooray for the Surf & Silicon Republic of California! Zorro rides again!;)

Some Scottish are thinking they should say good-bye to the UK as well...
As long as they remain in the EU...
Risottia
03-10-2007, 09:48
And Wallonia isn't exactly a cash cow

That's why the Flemish want to secede, did I get it right?
Isidoor
03-10-2007, 12:46
That's why the Flemish want to secede, did I get it right?

mostly, it also has some cultural aspects (beautiful rural Flemish villages being overrun by evil French-speaking people). The nationalists think they can stop these natural evolutions by legislation and by trying to annoy the Walloons.
So it boils down to mostly money and a little bit xenophobia/hate (which they disguise as trying to "save" their beautiful heritage/culture etc.)
Miodrag Superior
03-10-2007, 14:52
France has no obligation to either

France most certainly does have obligation to Quebec if Quebec were ever to come a-knocking, as it was its colony and that's how those French speakers ended up there.

France has accepted so many people from its African colonies that refusing to accept Quebecois would be outright racism: "we help Senegalese because they cannot do better, but not Quebecois, because they are Caucasians, so they should be able to manage without our help."

Anyway, I don't think it would happen as anglophone Canadians are suckers for abuse by the wishy-washy whimsical provincial town highschool prom queens = the Quebecois; but should it happen, France better get ready.
Heilegenberg
03-10-2007, 17:09
I would gladly welcome the Quebecois "home" to France.