NationStates Jolt Archive

America seems to be failing apart; how long do you think it has?

I'd have to say, maybe 5 years...

Falling apart? It's pretty much as strong economically as it'll ever be, housing bubble aside; exports are booming, unemployment's at historic lows, GDP is growing and the stock market's in great shape. Things have been a lot worse, for sure.

I give it 100 or so years, after which point national borders will peacefully weaken under the force of globalization.

As hegemon? I'd say still 25 years minimum, probably decades more. Then again who knows what twists the future holds.

America seems to be failing apart; how long do you think it has?

I'd have to say, maybe 5 years...

How is America falling apart?

What do you mean exactly...?

The USA will still be a nation in 5 years...if it isn't then the world has entered nuclear apocalypse and we are all dead...

I give it aprox. 25... as I do every other nation on Earth when Peak Oil drags us all too hell.

America seems to be failing apart; how long do you think it has?

I'd have to say, maybe 5 years...

Well, the US isn't falling apart, but it has certainly lost some influence.

I don't think it will ultimately be us crashing, though it's possible. Personally, I think that the US will one day be overshadowed by China.

I wouldn't really mind slipping peacefully into China's shadow

I would...at least for now. I'd prefer India to the PRC any day of the week.

Mind you, I think we'll see some major positive changes in China in the next few years as the next generation of leaders, who are mostly educated in the West and have a lot of experience with the democratic capitalist world (and hold finance/economics degrees to boot) and so will be more likely to embark on a liberal platform than the current leadership.

Well, the US isn't falling apart, but it has certainly lost some influence.

I don't think it will ultimately be us crashing, though it's possible. Personally, I think that the US will one day be overshadowed by China.

I wouldn't really mind slipping peacefully into China's shadow

The USA will last a million billion years.

Well we would if we STOPPED BUYING ALL OF OUR SHIT FROM CHINA anyhow.

It's not falling apart; quite the opposite, in fact.
http://www.scotese.com/future2.htm

Well we would if we STOPPED BUYING ALL OF OUR SHIT FROM CHINA anyhow.

Actually, no, we'd probably collapse instead of peacefully dissolve. Trade sustains prosperity...without it, we would be nothing.

We won't fall apart, we'll just slip out of relevance like other former world powers, except that we'll be much larger babies about it so instead of accepting our new place in the world with dignity we'll have to be demonstrably reminded where we sit at the table now. Which of course we won't take well either. It might be a generation before we have leaders that will realize realistically where we are and start to rebuild credibility and a place in the next world.

I would...at least for now. I'd prefer India to the PRC any day of the week.

Mind you, I think we'll see some major positive changes in China in the next few years as the next generation of leaders, who are mostly educated in the West and have a lot of experience with the democratic capitalist world (and hold finance/economics degrees to boot) and so will be more likely to embark on a liberal platform than the current leadership.

Agreed..I didn't mean in the very near future...I think as China becomes more developed and industrialized there will be social changes as well...

Agreed..I didn't mean in the very near future...I think as China becomes more developed and industrialized there will be social changes as well...

It's pretty much guaranteed...wealthier people demand more freedom, so they won't be able to develop very far without it.

However, I'd prefer a multipolar world to another period of superpowers considering China is already starting down the road of 3rd world exploitation and neo-imperialism that the US and USSR used back during the Cold War.

Indeed..I wonder who will come after China slips into obscurity..lol

China industrializing could go a long way to helping industrialize the entire Asian world...of course barring tensions caused by NK between the west and confrontation with India...or Taiwan

The First Reich will last 1,000 years!

We've been living off of inertia for 27 years. Unless we have a major change in leadership the inertia will eventually run out. The last 7 years has really burned a lot of that inertia economically, militarily and international reputation.

I think the US will continue to exist but probably as a second rate power like the UK.

I see Germany becoming the leader of the EU as soon as the east is totally rebuilt. That would make them the leading western power.

In the east it will be interesting to see if China can take the leadership from Japan. China has so many problems that it's going to take a lot to put them in a position of real leadership in the next few years.

But there could be an "out of the blue" leader like the US after the World Wars. Just think what would happen if Africa finally got their s--- together and united their brains and natural resources? And of course Russia has massive natural resources if they learn to use them. Or if Latin America could unite, they have similar culture if they could unite politically they could be a power.

Why do you equate an irrelevant country like the United Statelets of the Middle Belt of North America (commonly known as the US(A)) with the great American continent?

42.

We'll be here all night baby! :D

Personally, I see a significant problem stemming from our immense debt with china and other nations.

Right now, we are so deep in debt that were it to be called in (after a wobble in the chinese economy, say) we'd have no choice but to either take out further credit to pay most of it or default on the bill. The former is about as bad as taking out a payday loan to settle your credit cards, but the latter could well lead to an economic meltdown for us. We'd see much the same as Argentina did a while back.

The reason for that is the value of the US dollar is just a promise from the US government to repay a debt, if the world loses faith in that promise the dollar loses all value other than it's partial backing with gold. If the dollar is worth nearly nothing, people are confronted with the twin conundrum of not being able to live where they are, and having no savings with which to move.

Will this end the US as a country? Probably not unless some crazy politician decides to use our nuclear stockpiles as leverage, but it's a problem we'll have to solve within our lifetime.

Falling apart? It's pretty much as strong economically as it'll ever be, You're kidding right?
housing bubble aside; That's a BIG thing to just "set aside"
exports are booming, Mostly violence. Kidding.
But it's nothing compared to other countries.
unemployment's at historic lows, Evidence? Don't forget it only counts unemployment if people report being unemployed. Many don't because it's useless.

GDP is growing and the stock market's in great shape. Things have been a lot worse, for sure.

Not if you take in account for loss of value in the dollar.
When such gains are measured against the gains in the price of just about anything people buy, or in just about any foreign currency, it's a whole different story. For example; measured in euros, U.S. GDP has declined from 11.5 trillion in January of 2000 to 10 trillion today. From a European perspective, the U.S. economy has been in a seven-year recession, with GDP declining by close to 2% per annum.

The only reason the stock is going well because of the recent money addition.

I give OBSCENE national Debt, the MASSIVE IOUs the Government owes the world, the collapsing house bubble that the government is replacing with money it does not have, Bush and his Motherf*cking tax cuts to the rich.(And dumping the Paris Hilton Tax.) as well as the lowering value of the dollar.
Leading to the possible abandonment of the Petro dollar...

Possible Stock Market crash in 2013...
Bankruptcy of the Government by 2015...
Collapse of the government and civil war by 2016.

i'm not even going to begin to speculate. every possibility that has been considered here, and zillions that haven't or have yet to be, are all, at least possible.

it is a dangerously potentially self destructive game that is currently being played certainly. one perhaps played out of despiration by those who see handwriting on their own walls.

one prediction that i know of, has tyrannical superpower bias being replaced by an impartial planetary federalism. one that favors no existing nation, idiology, nor economic theory over another.

we are told this well be accompleshed before the passing of a full thousand years.

it does seem rather unlikely that any currently standing government will last anywhere near that long. america's being no exception.

there are certainly parallels to shortly pre-collapse soviet russia, and others, much scarier. far more daunting then any mere colapse of ritual obiesence to a constitution long niglected in anything more then empty words and pretentions.

me, i'm not cheering or booing either way. i may not like what is going to come. i certainly don't like what i have already seen happening. but unless and untill it becomes something i personally can do anything about, well i think there might be more intersting walls to beat my head against.

i do not feel even certain as to whether it will be of detriment or bennfit when it does.

i do think the best thing would be for super-powers to be divested into bioregeonal more local control. and for a world coordinating body to be impartial to the intrests of nations and concern itself instead with the well being of real people, places and things, and have at least some, real, indipendent teeth of its own, to make it so.

=^^=
.../\...

You're kidding right?

No, it is.

That's a BIG thing to just "set aside"

Bubbles are always self-adjusting and will return to trend eventually, even if there is volatility in the meantime.

Mostly violence. Kidding.
But it's nothing compared to other countries.

The US is the biggest exporter in the world. However, we're also the biggest importer, which is why we have such a big trade deficit.

Evidence? Don't forget it only counts unemployment if people report being unemployed. Many don't because it's useless.

If you're not counted as unemployed, you're not looking for a job, which means it doesn't really matter all that much. However, labor force participation does measure that data, and it's pretty much at its highest levels ever except for its peak during the late 1990's.

Not if you take in account for loss of value in the dollar.

That's not a very meaningful statistic, though. Even if the value of US assets relative to other countries drop, that doesn't affect their relative value within the United States. And, of course, it's also true that US overseas investments are worth more nominally when the dollar drops.

The only reason the stock is going well because of the recent money addition.

The stock market is usually affected by changes in the money supply. However, some of it is also due to investment money being moved from housing to the stock market.

I give OBSCENE national Debt, the MASSIVE IOUs the Government owes the world, the collapsing house bubble that the government is replacing with money it does not have, Bush and his Motherf*cking tax cuts to the rich.(And dumping the Paris Hilton Tax.) as well as the lowering value of the dollar.

Well, that's the product of big government for you. We fail to keep our spending in control and these are the consequences...the market is simply adjusting itself to cover for our relentless spending.

Leading to the possible abandonment of the Petro dollar...

Not unless oil prices fail to keep up with the decline in the dollar. In fact, the US dollar makes up a bigger percentage share of foreign reserves now than it did back in the mid-1990's. The fears of a major unchaining of the dollar to oil are pretty unfounded, and even if it were unlinked you have to remember that oil forms only a small share of total world trade.

Possible Stock Market crash in 2013...
Bankruptcy of the Government by 2015...
Collapse of the government and civil war by 2016.

Not going to happen. The market will adjust long before that (and it already has, if the current account data is any evidence).

people are still forgetting that economics intentionally self disconnects itself from the reality the air we breathe comes from, and neglecting to consider all that this implies.

=^^=
.../\...

America seems to be failing apart; how long do you think it has?

I'd have to say, maybe 5 years...

<Presses THE big red button>

74 minutes and counting ;)

The end of USA started in 2000.

Endings take time.

Sometimes hundred of years and more. Like the old Romans know.

We're all on borrowed time. So enjoy yourselves. :)

people are still forgetting that economics intentionally self disconnects itself from the reality the air we breathe comes from, and neglecting to consider all that this implies.

=^^=
.../\...

Sorry?

If the European Union and the United States tries to stand alone, then I beleive China and India will surpass us. However, if the EU and the USA stands together, it will be the leading power of the world for the next century.
Combined, the EU and USA would wield immense power, with strong economies and strong military forces.
The first stepp on the long road toward this should be something similar to what the German Chancellor proposed a few months back, creating a free-trade zone including the EU and USA.

America seems to be failing apart; how long do you think it has?

I'd have to say, maybe 5 years...

No way. USA isn't the sole superpower (as some idiots believe), and it has major social problems (high crime, poor education system, high class gaps, huge personal and national debt, few voters) but this doesn't mean it's falling apart. It's still one of the world's great powers, together with EU, India, China and Russia - and it's still a technology leader.

If the European Union and the United States tries to stand alone, then I beleive China and India will surpass us. However, if the EU and the USA stands together, it will be the leading power of the world for the next century.
Combined, the EU and USA would wield immense power, with strong economies and strong military forces.
The first stepp on the long road toward this should be something similar to what the German Chancellor proposed a few months back, creating a free-trade zone including the EU and USA.

I don't think that the US market is ready to lower its trade barriers.
Also, why should the EU have closer relationships with the US than with Russia, or India, just to name two?

If the European Union and the United States tries to stand alone, then I beleive China and India will surpass us. However, if the EU and the USA stands together, it will be the leading power of the world for the next century.
Combined, the EU and USA would wield immense power, with strong economies and strong military forces.
The first stepp on the long road toward this should be something similar to what the German Chancellor proposed a few months back, creating a free-trade zone including the EU and USA.

Quite the sad little Europhile aren't we? First we fall for the Cameron line, despite his filling a shadow cabinet with Europhobes, then we propose it as a future power bloc.

I'd sooner see Britain leave the EU and either pursue a closer relationship with Russia or the USA.

I'd sooner see Britain leave the EU and either pursue a closer relationship with Russia or the USA.

That's called being the 51st State, or 52nd if you count Puerto Rico.

No way. USA isn't the sole superpower (as some idiots believe)

Depends on your definition of superpower, but it is generally accepted since the fall of the USSR that the US is the sole superpower in the world.

I don't think that the US market is ready to lower its trade barriers.
Also, why should the EU have closer relationships with the US than with Russia, or India, just to name two?


Of course it will be difficult. It will be difficult to swallow for the European Left, and the less progressive parts of the Democratic Party and the Republican party.
To answer your question. I beleive a close relationship with USA is easier than a close relationship with Russia, because Russia is practically an unpredictable semi-dictatorship. It is easier to work closely with USA than India, because of shared history and culture.

Quite the sad little Europhile aren't we? First we fall for the Cameron line, despite his filling a shadow cabinet with Europhobes, then we propose it as a future power bloc.

I'd sooner see Britain leave the EU and either pursue a closer relationship with Russia or the USA.

Yes, I am a Europhile. The future of Europe is the EU. It isn’t an option to leave the EU, except maybe for the marginal UKIP and BNP.

If the European Union and the United States tries to stand alone, then I beleive China and India will surpass us. However, if the EU and the USA stands together, it will be the leading power of the world for the next century.
Combined, the EU and USA would wield immense power, with strong economies and strong military forces.
The first stepp on the long road toward this should be something similar to what the German Chancellor proposed a few months back, creating a free-trade zone including the EU and USA.

It could start with one currency: The Eurollar or Dolleuro !

Quite the sad little Europhile aren't we? First we fall for the Cameron line, despite his filling a shadow cabinet with Europhobes, then we propose it as a future power bloc.

I'd sooner see Britain leave the EU and either pursue a closer relationship with Russia or the USA.

Russia? :)

America seems to be failing apart; how long do you think it has?

It will last until it ceases to exist.

The US will last until the Lord says otherwise.

Depends on your definition of superpower, but it is generally accepted since the fall of the USSR that the US is the sole superpower in the world.

No way, Russia, even without the rest of the CCCP, is still a superpower.
It is militarily on a par with the US (Russia wins about nukes, tanks, aircrafts and subs, but has an inferior surface navy by far).
Economically, it has the huge advantage of being the only industrialised country who exports oil and gas.
Technologically and scientifically, it's something everyone has to reckon with - their metallurgy is excellet, the universities work quite well, and their spaceships are more reliable than the US ones (good ol' Proton...)
Russia is a superpower.

Of course it will be difficult. It will be difficult to swallow for the European Left, and the less progressive parts of the Democratic Party and the Republican party.
Well, actually, the EU left will be the less affected, because here in the EU we already lost most of our trade barriers, it's the US trade barriers the real problem - and the fact that most of the US heavy industry is largely state-funded.

To answer your question. I beleive a close relationship with USA is easier than a close relationship with Russia, because Russia is practically an unpredictable semi-dictatorship.
Here you got a point. Anyway, the fact that the US are more predictable (they are and always be imperialistic) doesn't make them a lot more democratic (Guantanamo and Patriot Act...)

It is easier to work closely with USA than India, because of shared history and culture.

Well, actually, India used English, is a parliamentary democracy, has got a welfare system, and has been an European colony...

Also, Russia IS a part of Europe, historically and culturally, at least from the times of Ivan IV Groznyj (the Terrible) and Pëtr Velikij (Peter the Great).

I think that we europeans have to strike a balance in the relationships we have with all other major- and superpowers, we don't want to tie ourself forever with just one!

The US will last until the Lord says otherwise.

And the Lord quoth: "Fidel, do this and that. Otherwise..." and with this last word, the US ceased to exist. Praise the Lord, did Fidel do.;)

Countries, kingdoms and any other powers come and go.

It would be arrogant to assume that US will remain for ever.

Maybe in 10 years, the Mexican army will invade USA and win!

I give it aprox. 25... as I do every other nation on Earth when Peak Oil drags us all too hell.

The good news, though, is that the western industrial democracies will likely be able to ride out peak oil. Sure, our way of life will be fundamentally altered, and we'll be forced to accept reductions in our quality of life, especially in the availability of specialty goods and foodstuffs, but our institutions are sufficiently stable that we'll likely be able to keep going long enough to pick ourselves back up. Alternate sources of energy, both radical and conventional, will likely be employed to guarantee our power grid, and certain vital national interests will be able to be kept running off of our own, limited, domestic reserves.

The real challenges and problems will be in the LDC's, who lack the accumulated capital to pay the costs for the transition. A lot of people will die in the global South, especially in Africa.

Personally, I see a significant problem stemming from our immense debt with china and other nations.

That's mostly a problem for the nations that actually hold our debt. They sold us hard goods in exchange for pieces of paper. Those pieces of paper are now worth a lot less since the Dollar has lost value against other currencies. "Immense debt" is a relative term. The US economy isn't really based on trade all that much. China, on the other hand, has a GDP that is about 70% based one exports. If the US decided to ban trade with China, the Chinese economy would collapse virtually overnight.

Right now, we are so deep in debt that were it to be called in (after a wobble in the chinese economy, say) we'd have no choice but to either take out further credit to pay most of it or default on the bill. The former is about as bad as taking out a payday loan to settle your credit cards, but the latter could well lead to an economic meltdown for us. We'd see much the same as Argentina did a while back.

The old saying is that if you owe the bank a million dollars and you can't pay, you have a problem. If you owe the bank a billion dollars and you can't pay, the BANK has a problem.

Internationally, Argentina owed the equivalent of a million dollars, while the US's debt is the equivalent of a billion dollars. If it ever came to the point where the US couldn't pay its debts, our creditors would scramble to re-finance on terms favorable to us, rather than let us default.

In any event, the entire US national debt is a little shy of 9 trillion dollars. Our GDP is about 13 trillion. By any standard, that is a very manageable level of debt. I should be so lucky as to have combined debts that are less than 70% of my income (never mind my net worth plus my income).

Well, actually, the EU left will be the less affected, because here in the EU we already lost most of our trade barriers, it's the US trade barriers the real problem - and the fact that most of the US heavy industry is largely state-funded.


Yes, we have removed most of our trade barriers. However, the European left is fanatically anti-american (European leftists intellectuals defended the Soviet Union and long after most people had recognised it as the blood-stained dictatorship it was), and won't like the idea of a close American-European cooperation.


Here you got a point. Anyway, the fact that the US are more predictable (they are and always be imperialistic) doesn't make them a lot more democratic (Guantanamo and Patriot Act...)


America is one of the greatest democracies of the western world. That they have to apply tough measures in the war on terror doesn't change that.

Well, actually, India used English, is a parliamentary democracy, has got a welfare system, and has been an European colony...


Indeed, there are similarities between India and Europe, but the similarities are greater between Europe and USA. Most Americans are of European descent.


Also, Russia IS a part of Europe, historically and culturally, at least from the times of Ivan IV Groznyj (the Terrible) and Pëtr Velikij (Peter the Great).


Some Russians (for most part urban middle-class) view Russia as a part of Europe. However, most Russians see themselves as a part of Asia. That includes todays policy-makers in the Kremlin.


I think that we europeans have to strike a balance in the relationships we have with all other major- and superpowers, we don't want to tie ourself forever with just one!

I beleive we should trade with everyone, but our main ally should be the USA. That is what have worked best in the past.

The US has faced problems like this before. We've had multiple depressions, and each time, we eventually pulled ourselves out of it.

Other nations have lasted for much longer, and faced much worse, than the United States. Take France. They've been invaded multiple times, had multiple revolutions and civil wars, got completely overrun by another nation less than 70 years ago.. and they're STILL around.

The United States, by contrast, has had it much easier. We've had one major revolution (and that was a founding revolution) and one major civil war. Apart from the Revolution and the Civil War, we have yet to see a MAJOR foreign military presence on U.S. soil (the Japanese occupying the Aleutians doesn't count in my book - that was a minor foreign presence).

For a nation to collapse completely is not easy. I cannot think of a single nation that COMPLETELY collapsed due to internal conflicts (if you can, name them, and provide links if possible). From my knowledge of history, most nations die because they are conquered. This normally follows a long decline in which the nation becomes weak enough that they can be conquered. This was the fate of Greece and Rome. The Mongol Empire did break up due to internal factors, but Mongolia itself remains.

The United States is not an empire in the traditional sense. We are influential because of our image, our economic and military strength, our technology, and our cultural influence. Some countries normally do what we tell them, but they are not officially American territory.

The end of the United States as the dominant world power could come soon. A major economic depression combined with a loss of international prestige could do it. We'd still be a power, and might make a comeback once we got out of that depression, but another nation - China, India, maybe Europe - would become the dominant world power.

No way, Russia, even without the rest of the CCCP, is still a superpower.
It is militarily on a par with the US (Russia wins about nukes, tanks, aircrafts and subs, but has an inferior surface navy by far).
Economically, it has the huge advantage of being the only industrialised country who exports oil and gas.
Technologically and scientifically, it's something everyone has to reckon with - their metallurgy is excellet, the universities work quite well, and their spaceships are more reliable than the US ones (good ol' Proton...)
Russia is a superpower.

It is great that you think that, but you are in a minority next to the people whose job it is to know. Go talk to your local university's history or politics professor.

1,000 years??????????????????????????????:confused:

We've been living off of inertia for 27 years. Unless we have a major change in leadership the inertia will eventually run out. The last 7 years has really burned a lot of that inertia economically, militarily and international reputation.

I think the US will continue to exist but probably as a second rate power like the UK.

I see Germany becoming the leader of the EU as soon as the east is totally rebuilt. That would make them the leading western power.

In the east it will be interesting to see if China can take the leadership from Japan. China has so many problems that it's going to take a lot to put them in a position of real leadership in the next few years.

But there could be an "out of the blue" leader like the US after the World Wars. Just think what would happen if Africa finally got their s--- together and united their brains and natural resources? And of course Russia has massive natural resources if they learn to use them. Or if Latin America could unite, they have similar culture if they could unite politically they could be a power.

The British are going to run Europe. America will still run the America's so to speak.

Australia will run the pacific and Indian Oceans.

A coalition formed of Israel and the Arab states will hold the line against Iran in the middle east.

Russia will rise again.

China be in charge of nations that have never had democracy in east asia. The rest will protect themselves from Chinese hedgemony by forming an alliance.

Africa will experience some of their versions of the first and second world wars.

In the Americas, while America will continue to dominate, Canada, Mexico will be more independent but they will still be allied with and share common interests with the US. While Venezuela will prop up communism in a post Fidel Cuba. Civil war in Bolivia between socialists and democrats. Possible proxy battleground between Venezuela and USA????

South America will be divided into two camps: Pro America and Anti America. Colombia will lead the former while Venezuela leads the latter.
I think it go along the lines of:

Anti-America
Venezuela
Bolivia
Peru
Ecuador

Pro America
Argentina
Chile
Colombia
Guyana
Suriname
France (French Guinea)

In Central America, the US will compete with Venezuela for influence in nations like Honduras and Nicaraga. Both of those nations lean strongly toward Venezuela.

Costa Rica, Belize, Guatemala and Panama are firmly allied with US though they may ally with China for the right price.

Not sure about the rest.

No way, Russia, even without the rest of the CCCP, is still a superpower.
It is militarily on a par with the US (Russia wins about nukes, tanks, aircrafts and subs, but has an inferior surface navy by far).
Economically, it has the huge advantage of being the only industrialised country who exports oil and gas.
Technologically and scientifically, it's something everyone has to reckon with - their metallurgy is excellet, the universities work quite well, and their spaceships are more reliable than the US ones (good ol' Proton...)
Russia is a superpower.


Well, actually, the EU left will be the less affected, because here in the EU we already lost most of our trade barriers, it's the US trade barriers the real problem - and the fact that most of the US heavy industry is largely state-funded.


Here you got a point. Anyway, the fact that the US are more predictable (they are and always be imperialistic) doesn't make them a lot more democratic (Guantanamo and Patriot Act...)



Well, actually, India used English, is a parliamentary democracy, has got a welfare system, and has been an European colony...

Also, Russia IS a part of Europe, historically and culturally, at least from the times of Ivan IV Groznyj (the Terrible) and Pëtr Velikij (Peter the Great).

I think that we europeans have to strike a balance in the relationships we have with all other major- and superpowers, we don't want to tie ourself forever with just one!

Russia still a superpower????? A power maybe, but their military and economic might pale next to that of the United States at the moment. I don't see how you can possibly think the Russian military is in any way superior to the United States. Since their economic woes started, they haven't had the money to maintain their equipment, train their pilots, or invest in top of the line military research and facilities. By the time Russia regains superpower status, so will several other groups.

For a nation to collapse completely is not easy. I cannot think of a single nation that COMPLETELY collapsed due to internal conflicts (if you can, name them, and provide links if possible). From my knowledge of history, most nations die because they are conquered. This normally follows a long decline in which the nation becomes weak enough that they can be conquered. This was the fate of Greece and Rome. The Mongol Empire did break up due to internal factors, but Mongolia itself remains.

The internal conflicts of Rome and Greece led to it's being conquered by outside forces. Had those civilizations remained true to their original standards, thus one could argue limiting the internal conflicts, I'm sure they would have faired much better in the eyes of histroy, especially Rome. Of course that is speculation and my personal opinion. No use crying over spilled milk and "What if's".

Sorry for not replying earlier.

America is failing apart for multiple reasons, for example, the economical downturn, the various wars, and it's huge domestic problems.

Economically, yes this housing bubble has collapsed, but it's been in decline for several years, and with a highly unpopular war ending very soon, possibly in 2008/2009, the economy is going to take another turn for the worst as spending is cut back, these sorts of depression always occur after a war, it is, in part, what caused the great depression.

The last I heard, the United States has taken out loans with china to fund the war, somewhere around a trillion dollars, so I heard. And loans must be repaid. All the while, America is gearing up for war with Iran, another winnable war.

Domestically, the political power is vested in two parties, both of whom hate the other with a passion, And, further more, the vast majority of the members of these groups are influenced by special interest groups, such as the NRA, or FRC. While all parties, world wide, are influenced by special interest groups, the United States HAS to be able to pull itself out of their grips and start making some life-saving policies. Things like no health care, low taxes, collapsing infrastructure, etc, are all things that need fixes; today.

It's just too bad it'll probably hurt the rest of the world when it does fall apart.

Sorry, but with the Dow closing aboe 14000 again today, I don't see how the economy is entering another Great Depression. What's great about the modern world is that besides energy, the military and civilian worlds act independently of one another in terms of economics and resources. Us civilians don't need to cut back to support the War in Iraq, it's almost like we're at peace.

The Iraq War is (so far) nothing compared to Vietnam. 4000 dead and 4 years of war doesn't exactly merit "America destroying War". And as mainstream America gets more infuriated with the Chinese over various issues, I suspect we'll be borrowing a whole lot less in the future, after the war's end, I predict a mild to large cutback in military spending, as well as curbing of the "security" measures Bush has enacted in his presidency.

The US will not fall apart, states will not become independent countries. If you meant that the US will not be the pre-eminent power on the globe, then, yes, I can agree with you, no one holds all the cards forever. But the US will remain a firm country until the UN starts directly governing places in the next century.

And the Lord quoth: "Fidel, do this and that. Otherwise..." and with this last word, the US ceased to exist. Praise the Lord, did Fidel do.;)

To tell you the truth I think there are some who dream of a world without the US, but that doesn't make it so. As soon as we can get Bush out of office things will start looking up again because he is the author of most our current woes in my opinion.

Didn't many people thought United States will collapse during the Vietnam war? :p The United States probally will not collapse in the next 200 years, its very unlikely.

It is militarily on a par with the US (Russia wins about nukes, tanks, aircrafts and subs, but has an inferior surface navy by far).Chechnya disagrees with your analysis.

Sorry, but with the Dow closing aboe 14000 again today, I don't see how the economy is entering another Great Depression. What's great about the modern world is that besides energy, the military and civilian worlds act independently of one another in terms of economics and resources. Us civilians don't need to cut back to support the War in Iraq, it's almost like we're at peace.

The Iraq War is (so far) nothing compared to Vietnam. 4000 dead and 4 years of war doesn't exactly merit "America destroying War". And as mainstream America gets more infuriated with the Chinese over various issues, I suspect we'll be borrowing a whole lot less in the future, after the war's end, I predict a mild to large cutback in military spending, as well as curbing of the "security" measures Bush has enacted in his presidency.

The US will not fall apart, states will not become independent countries. If you meant that the US will not be the pre-eminent power on the globe, then, yes, I can agree with you, no one holds all the cards forever. But the US will remain a firm country until the UN starts directly governing places in the next century.

and the dollar still performed badly. I also seem to recall that many companies are asking people to pump money into the market just for the sake of investing

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/6b/DJIA_Black_Monday_1987.svg/600px-DJIA_Black_Monday_1987.svg.png
Notice how the market spiked just before the crash on black Monday?

The Iraq war isn't suppose to threaten America, but it has sharply divided the nation. And it has. It also a very costly war, and one that cannot be won.

The United States is already falling apart, it has been very since the 1990's, and the collaspe of Russia. It's never been a question of if, it's a question of when it will fall apart.

Sorry, but with the Dow closing aboe 14000 again today, I don't see how the economy is entering another Great Depression.

The level at which the DOW closes really means very little in terms of either value or stability of the currency.


Us civilians don't need to cut back to support the War in Iraq, it's almost like we're at peace.


Wrong. We do need to cut back to support the war. We haven't, and that is going to bite us in the ass eventually.

I give it aprox. 25... as I do every other nation on Earth when Peak Oil drags us all too hell.

There is no likelihood man can ever tap the power of the atom.
Robert Millikan, American physicist and Nobel Prize winner, 1923.

and the dollar still performed badly. I also seem to recall that many companies are asking people to pump money into the market just for the sake of investing



Are you kidding? The dollar is performing beautifully. With its continued devaluation we are witnessing the relative prices of American goods abroad decrease, and as a result the demand for these goods is increasing. Having a low dollar is likely to spawn more American manufacturing jobs, something that does not hurt the economy in the slightest.

Are you kidding? The dollar is performing beautifully. With its continued devaluation we are witnessing the relative prices of American goods abroad decrease, and as a result the demand for these goods is increasing. Having a low dollar is likely to spawn more American manufacturing jobs, something that does not hurt the economy in the slightest.

Interesting. Of course, I'm Canadian in America, and it's fun to brag about the Canuk dollar being higher than the American!

*Looks up price*
What??? The Canadian dollar is approximately worth 99.79 cents American!

From this point in time.
About 475 days 20 hours 22 minutes and 40 seconds

What, are you orchestrating it? :p

EDIT: TimeWarp!

From this point in time.
About 475 days 20 hours 22 minutes and 40 seconds

Are you kidding? The dollar is performing beautifully. With its continued devaluation we are witnessing the relative prices of American goods abroad decrease, and as a result the demand for these goods is increasing. Having a low dollar is likely to spawn more American manufacturing jobs, something that does not hurt the economy in the slightest.

At the moment we are almost entirely bouyed by the currency of China (which we have constantly bitched about, prior to this). Should China decide to revalue, our middle-class will become the new poor almost instantly. That's the problem with having no external purchase power and an economy so heavily reliant on import.

At the moment we are almost entirely bouyed by the currency of China (which we have constantly bitched about, prior to this). Should China decide to revalue, our middle-class will become the new poor almost instantly. That's the problem with having no external purchase power and an economy so heavily reliant on import.

That's only if they were to suddenly and completely revalue it; that would be incredibly stupid, no different than the Federal Reserve jacking up interest rates to a massively high level for no reason. A gradual revaluation, which is what they're doing, will simply cause demand for Chinese imports to shift to American products instead.

Are you kidding? The dollar is performing beautifully. With its continued devaluation we are witnessing the relative prices of American goods abroad decrease, and as a result the demand for these goods is increasing. Having a low dollar is likely to spawn more American manufacturing jobs, something that does not hurt the economy in the slightest.

The dollar is equal, or nearly so, to the Canadian dollar, and at it's lowest it's been ever with the Euro.

yeah, a low dollar would spawn more jobs, if it wasn't for the fact that America doesn't produce much in it's country.

yeah, a low dollar would spawn more jobs, if it wasn't for the fact that America doesn't produce much in it's country.

The US is the single largest exporter in the world and will probably remain in that position for the foreseeable future, even above China. About 10% of our economy comes from the export of goods to the rest of the world and that share will rise as the dollar gets weaker.

Hopefully not for a very very very long time

It's not falling apart; quite the opposite, in fact.
http://www.scotese.com/future2.htm

...assuming tectonic plate theory is true.

America seems to be failing apart; how long do you think it has?

I'd have to say, maybe 5 years...

You're joking right? Oh I see you are serious.

umm...a lot longer than you will last here LOL.

America seems to be failing apart; how long do you think it has?
About as long as the Roman Empire lasted, I wouldn't be supirse. Has anyone heard of that book comparing the U.S. o' A. to Rome?

So if 753 B.C. = 1776 A.D., and The (Western) Roman Empire lasted till 476 A.D., my math is giving me about 3000 A.D., and maybe part of America will survive for another 1000 years like the Eastern Roman Empire (fell in 1453), maybe in the the form of a second Confederate States of America? That would be interesting anyways...

But this all very fuzzy math because America came into power much quicker than Roman tradition would have Rome. I don't care to throw around more numbers. Go figure.

You're joking right? Oh I see you are serious.

umm...a lot longer than you will last here LOL.

What's that suppose to mean?

What's that suppose to mean?

I thought it was self-explainatory.

This Country will be around longer than probably your nation here on Nationstates. Hell...probably be around long after you and I are both dead.

I'm betting maybe thirty years from now the USA crumbles and is divided up:
mexican illegally occupied land taken by mexico. russia or canada take alaska
hawai and pacific and south east asia by china except indonesia, japan, taiwan, south korea.
northern states join canada
southern states become the NEW USA
florida is taken by CUBA
BUT this is all wishful thinking(or is it?!?!?!)

I'm betting maybe thirty years from now the USA crumbles and is divided up:
mexican illegally occupied land taken by mexico. russia or canada take alaska
hawai and pacific and south east asia by china except indonesia, japan, taiwan, south korea.
northern states join canada
southern states become the NEW USA
florida is taken by CUBA Dream on Rogues of the world. :gundge::mp5::sniper:

BUT this is all wishful thinking(or is it?!?!?!)


Definately Wishful thinking :rolleyes:

America seems to be failing apart; how long do you think it has?

I'd have to say, maybe 5 years...

A very long time. Maybe hundreds of years. People have been saying ever since the nation was born that it was going to fall apart because of internal problems. I'll bet the Confederates said the same thing when Lincoln was elected (it did in fact fall apart but did come back together), the isolationists said so before WWII, the McCarthyites said we would fall apart, and now people say we will fall apart because of terrorism and internal subversion (liberal media). Has it? No, and it probably will not for a very long time.

If the European Union and the United States tries to stand alone, then I beleive China and India will surpass us. However, if the EU and the USA stands together, it will be the leading power of the world for the next century.
Combined, the EU and USA would wield immense power, with strong economies and strong military forces.
The first stepp on the long road toward this should be something similar to what the German Chancellor proposed a few months back, creating a free-trade zone including the EU and USA.

Probably whats going to happen. The EU and the USA will merge to become a dominating superpower.

Many, many, many years.

The OP doesn't understand what he's talking about.

I am looking forward to the North-East alliance taking control of Greenland once the U.S devides into seperate regions.

Less than 5*10^9 years and more than three seconds.

Click Stand;13115088']I am looking forward to the North-East alliance taking control of Greenland once the U.S devides into seperate regions.

My advice is don't hold your breath

America isn't falling apart, it's just undergoing internal change, as it was designed to do.

All nations eventually fall. America was the first nation that was designed to accomodate the forces that cause national decline and eventual disintegration. This doesn't mean that it won't fall, fall is inevitable, but that it will continue on for a good long while, changing to fit the needs of the time (with an occasional reactionary blip like Bush and the intermittent liberal whine like Hilary).

half hour

...assuming tectonic plate theory is true.

what

are you serious?

Its too difficult to tell how long the US will last (too many unseen variables... I can't calculate the derivative of this! NOOO!) but I do think it will last a considerable amount of time. Relative to other nations, the US still is the most powerful country in the world. Russia pales in comparison; even at the height of the cold war they were on par with each other; now, what with the lack of resources, funding, training, or a reason, their military is shot to hell. They have a gold mine of resources but not the activation cost to use it. Their economy is like a deer with anthrax.

China is becoming more powerful, yes, but eclipse the US in the next 50 years? Not happening. Their massive numbers of troops count for nothing when we can blow them all to hell with our air force, cut them off navally, and overwhelm them with our technologically superior forces. Even economically, they can't compete. Yes, the US has problems, but whatever system we use (Republican, Democrat, conservative, liberal, libertarian, populist, even green) we will still be the most powerful nation. They may manufacture half our crap, but if they threaten us or try to control us the US will wipe them off the map, politically or militarily, depending on what it comes to. Even if it is the most repugnant thing, we can at last resort consume China and annex it. Nuclear weapons won't even help because (even with our older missiles) can destroy their silos, military capacity, and population with about 10-12 pushes of a button, and their nukes will probably not be used because of this.

Europe and the EU can do whatever they want, the US can still overpower them militarily. Its not a wise decision, but the US is capable. Only the UK and France have nukes in Europe. Their stockpiles matter not in comparison. If the EU became a single entity, then it may compete. What will probably happen is the EU will become allied with the US completely or enemy totally.

In my opinion, the US looks like Rome was just before Empire, not just before fall. You can thank Orson Scott Card and Empire for that.

half hour

*in America 4 hours later*

Nope still here :D

My advice is don't hold your breath

I tried and was knocked out for a bit. I should've listened to you sooner.

At the rate these leftist traitors are working to dismantle our society, I'd say true America will be gone soon. If Hitlery Clinton becomes president, I'd say that would be the near killing blow for our society. Abortion on demand, gay "weddings", militant atheism, euthanasia, sex training in public high schools, etc. is NOT American.

At the rate these leftist traitors are working to dismantle our society, I'd say true America will be gone soon. If Hitlery Clinton becomes president, I'd say that would be the near killing blow for our society. Abortion on demand, gay "weddings", militant atheism, euthanasia, sex training in public high schools, etc. is NOT American.

WOW!! how deep is that stick? Granted, I do not want to see Clinton president but jeez.

It will last until it ceases to exist.

Well DUH! lol :D

I give it until I finish typing this post...and maybe 5 minutes beyond that.

lol j/k :D

America seems to be failing apart; how long do you think it has?

I'd have to say, maybe 5 years...
5 Years is a little optimistic. I'd say 15, maybe 10. In ten years, if they aren't fully deflated, they will at least be feeling that they are no longer on top of the world (Already, in fact, we can see the strain military imperialsim is putting on their once unflinching budget. They just won't be able to afford fucking around like they used to).

10 years.

Whenever oil runs out.

Whenever oil runs out.

Straight up answer here XD

We will be here at least as long as the rest of you are.

We will be here at least as long as the rest of you are.

Right, because the USA is a model of sustainable practices and long term vision.:rolleyes:

America seems to be failing apart; how long do you think it has?

I'd have to say, maybe 5 years...

I don't know...But going all Ghengis Khan on the rest of us isn't helping.

I don't know, but I'd like at least 40 more years so my bonds can reach maturity before everything collapses.

Oh America will still be here a hundred years from now ...

But you won't recognize it as the America we knew. It will look more like a corporate sponsored version of Germany circa 1942.

Right, because the USA is a model of sustainable practices and long term vision.:rolleyes:

Hey, it's been going pretty strong since the late eightteenth century without any real radical changes since the Contstitution's writing. If that's not somewhat long-term, then what is?

Lucky me, I'm not here singing "Proud to be an American, where at least I'm not French". That could ruin any credibility I have in this particular debate about how long America can last.

America seems to be failing apart; how long do you think it has?

America's never been together (I don't mean to imply that ANY nation has ever been together, though).

In its current form, I give it.....an indefinite amount of time, unfortunately. Unless people overcome the lure of the television and revolt (fingers crossed!), we'll keep getting more bloated and bureaucratic. :(

At the rate these leftist traitors are working to dismantle our society, I'd say true America will be gone soon. If Hitlery Clinton becomes president, I'd say that would be the near killing blow for our society. Abortion on demand, gay "weddings", militant atheism, euthanasia, sex training in public high schools, etc. is NOT American.

And that's why I consider myself "American" by citizenship alone. I don't want to be a part of your little (f-bomb coming!) fascit-right vs. fascist left game. You both want my freedom, you just differ on which ones you would like to take.

At the rate these leftist traitors are working to dismantle our society, I'd say true America will be gone soon. If Hitlery Clinton becomes president, I'd say that would be the near killing blow for our society. Abortion on demand, gay "weddings", militant atheism, euthanasia, sex training in public high schools, etc. is NOT American.



Go fuck yourself you inbred redneck.

Go fuck yourself you inbred redneck.

And how do you know he/she is an inbred redneck? Do you know the person personally?

How is America falling apart?

Apparently all 'teh gays' such as myself getting married is dooming US to a decline into oblivion.

And how do you know he/she is an inbred redneck? Do you know the person personally?

Saw the family tree - there were no branches.

Saw the family tree - there were no branches.

hehe. Prove it.

America seems to be failing apart; how long do you think it has?

I'd have to say, maybe 5 years...

Until next Tuesday.

To repeat my previous positions, I do not see the US falling apart anytime soon (and by anytime soon, I mean within the next couple of centuries). I could see the US losing its status as the leading superpower sometime this century. But we will remain a global power for a long time to come - something like Britain or Russia today.

I can think of two circumstances for the US to lose its place at the top of the food chain. One would be a major economic depression. This would by necessity be a global depression. If some other nation recovers more quickly, they could become the leading economic power.

The other way would be World War III. Whoever is dominant in victory will dominate the aftermath, just as we did after World War II.