NationStates Jolt Archive

There is no European country that doesn't let its citizens drink at least some alcohol at 18, let alone 21.

Oh and the first time I drank alcohol was when I was like 10 or something. Since my 16th, I've gone drinking with my friends now and then, and I can't bloody wait for my 18th.

And studies show that the earlier you start, the more you get hooked. See also smoking / drugs / food / everything else, ever.

I'm sure Europeans won't much mind this debate, since a good number of European countries allow people under 21 (or further down) to drink alcohol. Alas, in America, youths under the age of 21 aren't allowed to. Although they are able to destroy their lungs, vote, and go kill themselves abroad by the age of 18, they aren't allowed to get plastered enough to lick their sisters. And, yet, there are a seldom few countries that have as many teenage and adult alcoholics as America.

The government and watchdog organizations across the States tout that, since 1991, underage consumption of alcohol has dropped from 31% to 26% in 2006. It seems to me, however, that America has the same number (or greater) of underage alcohol comsumers despite the drop of consumers per capita due to the large increase of the 21 and under population.

I personally dislike alcohol because of its taste. I was introduced to the substance at the age of 15 (could have been 16, it was around that time). I've never felt the urge to drink in large quantities or get plastered with friends. I've been interested in my experiences now because of a couple of published books that I've become aware of that postulate that the best way to drive off underage drinking is for parents to introduce it to their children.

Thus, my question is this: Do you feel that introducing alcohol to teens decreases their chance of abusing it at a later age or time? And have you had any experiences with this, either it being introduced to you as a child or you introducing it to your child?

No. Look at Scotland.

No. Look at Scotland.
Aye, but look at Wales. Late starting can do either good or bad. Like everything, really.

I think introduction @ an early age is good. It teaches kids reasonable drinking. Which is probably one of the reasons why Alcohol abuse is so low in europe as comparible to the US.

Yes.

It will make kids and teens more responsible.

Aye, but look at Wales. Late starting can do either good or bad. Like everything, really.

I though Wales was full of mass drunken violent behaviour. At least that's what Port Talbot seemed like to me.

Of course they should. There's nothing wrong with it at all.



The problem lies in all the whiny idiots who worry about said kids drinking too much, but they're kids ffs. They're expendable and it's a nice way to weed out the excess stupid for awhile.

I'm sure Europeans won't much mind this debate, since a good number of European countries allow people under 21 (or further down) to drink alcohol. Alas, in America, youths under the age of 21 aren't allowed to. Although they are able to destroy their lungs, vote, and go kill themselves abroad by the age of 18, they aren't allowed to get plastered enough to lick their sisters. And, yet, there are a seldom few countries that have as many teenage and adult alcoholics as America.

The government and watchdog organizations across the States tout that, since 1991, underage consumption of alcohol has dropped from 31% to 26% in 2006. It seems to me, however, that America has the same number (or greater) of underage alcohol comsumers despite the drop of consumers per capita due to the large increase of the 21 and under population.

I personally dislike alcohol because of its taste. I was introduced to the substance at the age of 15 (could have been 16, it was around that time). I've never felt the urge to drink in large quantities or get plastered with friends. I've been interested in my experiences now because of a couple of published books that I've become aware of that postulate that the best way to drive off underage drinking is for parents to introduce it to their children.

Thus, my question is this: Do you feel that introducing alcohol to teens decreases their chance of abusing it at a later age or time? And have you had any experiences with this, either it being introduced to you as a child or you introducing it to your child?

The French do this. French people don't have alcohol cravings. Because they teach responsible drinking.

I'm sure Europeans won't much mind this debate, since a good number of European countries allow people under 21 (or further down) to drink alcohol. Alas, in America, youths under the age of 21 aren't allowed to. Although they are able to destroy their lungs, vote, and go kill themselves abroad by the age of 18, they aren't allowed to get plastered enough to lick their sisters.Despite what you may think, this in itself is not an argument for anything. One could just as well take this fact as evidence of how ridiculous it is that young people are allowed to, say, go kill themselves abroad at 18 before they are even responsible enough to drink. For my part, I say raise the enlistment age.

And, yet, there are a seldom few countries that have as many teenage and adult alcoholics as America.Source?

The fact of the matter is that every study I've ever seen shows that teenage alcoholism and binge drinking are greater problems in Europe than in the United States. Indeed, alcoholism in general and alcohol-related liver-disease are more prevalent in Europe than in the United States. Any notion to the contrary is pure mythology.

Go ahead, look it up.

Why, then, did the United States raise the drinking age? Contrary to popular belief it had little to nothing to do with moralistic or paternalistic concerns about teenage drinking--rather, a drinking age of 21 was adopted primarily because it was found radically to decrease deaths due to alcohol-related motor vehicle accidents.

This isn't a problem in Europe--or at least not nearly so much a problem as it is in the United States--and this has nothing whatsoever to do with the mythical "healthy drinking culture." Rather, it has to do with public transportation.

That's right. Public transportation. Kids in Europe drink, kids in Europe binge till their eyes pop out... and then kids in Europe stagger to a train station instead of hopping in a car.

The government and watchdog organizations across the States tout that, since 1991, underage consumption of alcohol has dropped from 31% to 26% in 2006. It seems to me, however, that America has the same number (or greater) of underage alcohol comsumers despite the drop of consumers per capita due to the large increase of the 21 and under population.Ummm... so? That's the reason we measure percentages: gross numbers are misleading for the very reason you state.

Thus, my question is this: Do you feel that introducing alcohol to teens decreases their chance of abusing it at a later age or time?When individual families do it, with parents showing teens how to drink and cutting them off when they've had enough? All signs point to yes. Unfortunately, you can't force parents to be responsible, and the statistics show that even in Europe the number of families that teach responsible drinking is small and dwindling.

Of course, the big issue is the drunk-driving problem. As much as I think 21 is a fine age at which to set the limit for alcohol, get decent public transportation in the United States and I'm willing to shrug and say "meh." At least then we'll be no worse off than Europe.

The French do this. French people don't have alcohol cravings. Because they teach responsible drinking.

Indeed, I was raised in a family in the US that did this, and we're pf French descent. Though it's technically illegal (not that I give a shit what the government tells me what I can or cannot do inside my home).

Aye. I started drinking at 14, and had my first serious case at 15 with a bottle of Polish Vodka mixed with whatever other stuff we could find in a mate's big sister's cabinet. Probably not the smartest thing I've ever done, but I dealt with the consequences.

I haven't had a drink in months because it costs too much and I don't feel the morning after is worth it.

I think it's better to introduce kids to alcohol before introducing them to driving. That way they are at least a little bit aware of what the stuff does to you by the time they get their license. The other way around seems insane to me.

Aye. I started drinking at 14, and had my first serious case at 15 with a bottle of Polish Vodka mixed with whatever other stuff we could find in a mate's big sister's cabinet. Probably not the smartest thing I've ever done, but I dealt with the consequences.

Did your parents ever teach you about alcohol before that happened? Or let you have a sip of their drink?

That's right. Public transportation. Kids in Europe drink, kids in Europe binge till their eyes pop out... and then kids in Europe stagger to a train station instead of hopping in a car.

Also, getting a car in Europe is relatively much more expensive and difficult than in the US.

I was introduced at an early age, but I never got obscenely drunk until I was in college. I sometimes wonder what it would be like if I'd gotten horribly plastered at a young age.

I point only to the continent. The Latin approach to alcohol is not to assume an ascetically protestant position and render it a taboo, but rather to have their children drink wine with meals from an early age; they have rather less trouble with underage alcoholism, and alcohol fuelled crime, than the UK, which would suggest that their model is rather more effective than ours.

Personally, I've drunk socially since I was 14, my parents have endorsed this (well, that which they have known anyway), and I seem to able to handle alcohol in a more mature fashion than friends who have drunk only from 16 onwards.

On another tangent; hooray for Orange Liquer!

I though Wales was full of mass drunken violent behaviour. At least that's what Port Talbot seemed like to me.
That's my point.
The French do this. French people don't have alcohol cravings. Because they teach responsible drinking.
Way to make sweeping statements!

Absolutely no more true in France than anywhere else, despite what 'common sense' would suggest.

They drink, on average, 50% more than the citizens of the US, and alcohol costs the French an estimated $18.5 billion a year, which is higher than their costs through tobacco - when you also note that around 60% of people 18-24 in France smoke, then the figures start to look a bit ominous, really.



See also Spain, which is having increasing problems with youth alcoholism.

That's my point.


Oh, we actually agree then. So is Scotland. Mind you, so is my former neck of the woods too.

That's my point.

Way to make sweeping statements!

Absolutely no more true in France than anywhere else, despite what 'common sense' would suggest.

They drink, on average, 50% more than the citizens of the US, and alcohol costs the French an estimated $18.5 billion a year, which is higher than their costs through tobacco - when you also note that around 60% of people 18-24 in France smoke, then the figures start to look a bit ominous, really.



See also Spain, which is having increasing problems with youth alcoholism.

I cannot speak for Spain, though this may owe much to the wave of young Brits born there....:D

Where France is concerned, the quantity of alcohol consumed is indeed immense; I've ever been astounded that friends of ours in France drink the amount of wine they do a week. However, the intention and context in which the alcohol is consumed differs greatly to the UK; wine is drunk with meals, and copiously, but it is not the key social expedient it is in the UK. While out and about carousing in Paris last night (heh, England win, and the damn Taffs lose:D), it was noticeable that, even by 1, the streets were not replete with brawling, staggering drunks as they would be in even the most anonymous British town.

As for their youth smoking; hoo-fucking-rah! No fascist smoking ban, and £2.65 Marlboro lites on the ferry! I was a happy smoker.

ATTN: AnarchyeL I am not going to bother quoting your post as it is to long however, your so called facts are incorrect and to sate that any body that disagress with you this bit I will quote "Any notion to the contrary is pure mythology". I know many people who live in Europe around my age 20, and we have discussed this matter plenty of times the first thing I have to say is that Alcoholsm and binge drinking in Europe is not rife after all these people introduce alcohol to thier kids at a young age now this is not giving them bottles of beer or glasses of winf for them to scull but rather a small amount of alcohol with thier evening meal every now and then as they get older they are giving larger quantities of wine thus by the time they get to the legal drinking age which most countries isn't that high the average is 16 they are not drinking excessive quantities of beer where after three hours they are rolloing around in gutters,

Anarchyel may be thinking of the United Kingdom where the age is 18 and there is the strong mentality that kids are not to drink until they are 18 and thus don't get their first taste till they are about 16 when they are drinking at parties behing their parents back and getting completly drunk because they believe that this is forbidden and thus will get as much of it as they can at every oppurtunity(I would say it is the same in the US from what i have observed but I don't know enough to state it as fact). I am in Australia and was introudced at an early age as were a lot of other people I know and when we were at parties we weren't getting hammered like our friends whos parents forbade them to drink we were still drinking and may have got a bit tipsy but we were never to the extent as some people these people that wern't introduced are now about 20-21 and are still drinking hard all the time and I recently learnt that one was diagnosed as an alcoholic.

In reply to the original question yes as I have observed I think that introducing alcohol to teens at a young age does decrease the chance of people abusing alcohol at a later stage in life

First of all, I've drunk as I'm writing/reading this.

People say that Europeans are more responbile about alcohol than Americans, because they are exposed to it at an eraly age. I find this bullshit, having partied all over Europe. The only difference is, and it's an important differenc,e is that when Europeans drink or smoke weed, they don't have to drive anywhere. They can take trains or buses, thus are less likely to get into problems. As for the age, meh....drinking alcohol is ok in my family.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go pass out.

I cannot speak for Spain, though this may owe much to the wave of young Brits born there....:D
It's actually mainly because now their parentals have jobs and such, they have lots of money to spend on, say, food and also wine.

See their strangely high obesity rates, and also their high level of alcoholism, which has risen pretty rapidly since Franco died and they got lots of money from the EU to deshittify their country.
Where France is concerned, the quantity of alcohol consumed is indeed immense; I've ever been astounded that friends of ours in France drink the amount of wine they do a week.
Quite.
However, the intention and context in which the alcohol is consumed differs greatly to the UK; wine is drunk with meals, and copiously, but it is not the key social expedient it is in the UK.
Doesn't make it any better for them.
While out and about carousing in Paris last night
Wahey.
(heh, England win, and the damn Taffs lose:D)
HUZZAH!
it was noticeable that, even by 1, the streets were not replete with brawling, staggering drunks as they would be in even the most anonymous British town.
True, pretty much, of all of Europe outside of the more Nordic lands.
As for their youth smoking; hoo-fucking-rah! No fascist smoking ban, and £2.65 Marlboro lites on the ferry! I was a happy smoker.
Their 'fascist' ban comes into play just as I go on a 3-day trip with college to Paris. SAD TIMES.

Oh and £2.65 for 10 or 20?

Yes. Everyone else got a head start, and now I'm just trying to catch up!

First of all, I've drunk as I'm writing/reading this.
It shows :p
People say that Europeans are more responbile about alcohol than Americans, because they are exposed to it at an eraly age. I find this bullshit, having partied all over Europe. The only difference is, and it's an important differenc,e is that when Europeans drink or smoke weed, they don't have to drive anywhere. They can take trains or buses, thus are less likely to get into problems. As for the age, meh....drinking alcohol is ok in my family.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go pass out.
Nah, usually we just crash out on a friend's / recently met person's floor. It's the best way of things, really, and it makes for fun times getting home :)

It's actually mainly because now their parentals have jobs and such, they have lots of money to spend on, say, food and also wine.

See their strangely high obesity rates, and also their high level of alcoholism, which has risen pretty rapidly since Franco died and they got lots of money from the EU to deshittify their country.

Quite.

Doesn't make it any better for them.

Wahey.

HUZZAH!

True, pretty much, of all of Europe outside of the more Nordic lands.

Their 'fascist' ban comes into play just as I go on a 3-day trip with college to Paris. SAD TIMES.

Oh and £2.65 for 10 or 20?

20!! I was, despite being hungover to fuck, over the moon!:p

As for French alcohlism being no better, I both agree and disagree. The sheer quantity of wine they consume is not, biologically, healthy. However, it does not lead to the crime and social problems that attend alcohol in the UK.

I always find Spain astonishing actually; somehow it strikes me as being a member of the western European club of nations, yet it really does suck... except Barcelona. I do love that place.

Obviously kids shouldn't be getting drunk. If you want to give a kid a sip of beer though, its no big deal.

For drinking laws, I'd say 16 for beer and 18 for the hard shit is good.

20!! I was, despite being hungover to fuck, over the moon!:p
*rushes to Dover before Monday*
As for French alcohlism being no better, I both agree and disagree. The sheer quantity of wine they consume is not, biologically, healthy. However, it does not lead to the crime and social problems that attend alcohol in the UK.
It leads to the exact same problems, the difference is that it gets taken out when they get home, on their wives, or on some random Arab-looking chap, instead of random fighting and general noisiness.
I always find Spain astonishing actually; somehow it strikes me as being a member of the western European club of nations, yet it really does suck... except Barcelona. I do love that place.
*shrugs*

S'alright.

It leads to the exact same problems, the difference is that it gets taken out when they get home, on their wives, or on some random Arab-looking chap, instead of random fighting and general noisiness.


Is that really true? And in any case, it's not like binge drinking in the UK doesn't end up that way either.

*rushes to Dover before Monday*

It leads to the exact same problems, the difference is that it gets taken out when they get home, on their wives, or on some random Arab-looking chap, instead of random fighting and general noisiness.

*shrugs*

S'alright.

The problems arising from alcohol in France are still infinitely smaller than those in the UK. That is undeniable, as is the fact they tend not to drink to excess.

And yes. Stock up.:D

Way to make sweeping statements!

Absolutely no more true in France than anywhere else, despite what 'common sense' would suggest.

They drink, on average, 50% more than the citizens of the US, and alcohol costs the French an estimated $18.5 billion a year, which is higher than their costs through tobacco - when you also note that around 60% of people 18-24 in France smoke, then the figures start to look a bit ominous, really.



See also Spain, which is having increasing problems with youth alcoholism.

Sorry. My bad. I'll try to be less sweeping.

Indeed, I was raised in a family in the US that did this, and we're pf French descent. Though it's technically illegal (not that I give a shit what the government tells me what I can or cannot do inside my home).

But some people agree.

Obviously kids shouldn't be getting drunk. If you want to give a kid a sip of beer though, its no big deal.

For drinking laws, I'd say 16 for beer and 18 for the hard shit is good.

Brilliant plan. We should seriously implement it.

Honestly... I first had an alcoholic drink at 15, and yes, many after that. I learned what it was like and ruined the whole mystique and everything. It also made me a responsible drinker, as I found out my tolerance (not to mention the first time I was hammered was in a comfortable setting). I don't have statistics or anything, just personal experience to go on. I rarely drink more than once a week. Same thing with tobacco. First time- 16. One cigarette. Never again. (Didn't like at all. Nasty stuff.) (By the way, it is seriously hard to get drunk on beer, in my experience. That is a lot of beer.)

But some people agree.

With what? That the government shouldn't be regulating what goes on inside a home? Or that it's technically illegal?

i don't know anybody in RL who didn't drink signifcantly underage. i don't see it as a problem though. my dad was buying me 'non-alcoholic' (actually about 1%abv) beer when i was very young, pre-teen anyway. and i was allowed wine with meals from about 14. i wasn't officially allowed spirits at home til after i was 18 but i'd steal whisky and rum all the time when i was younger. none of this made me not want to drink. i've always been a big fan of alcohol and it's effects and i've always been curious to try new kinds.

Brilliant plan. We should seriously implement it.

Honestly... I first had an alcoholic drink at 15, and yes, many after that. I learned what it was like and ruined the whole mystique and everything. It also made me a responsible drinker, as I found out my tolerance (not to mention the first time I was hammered was in a comfortable setting). I don't have statistics or anything, just personal experience to go on. I rarely drink more than once a week. Same thing with tobacco. First time- 16. One cigarette. Never again. (Didn't like at all. Nasty stuff.) (By the way, it is seriously hard to get drunk on beer, in my experience. That is a lot of beer.)

beer gets me drunkest i think. well pints do. bottles have no effect. if i want a long night i'll stay on the spirits.

No. Look at Scotland.

Normally I'd take great offense at your claims about the land that begat me.

But the fact that I'm drunk at this very moment porbably counters any argument I could make. So, fair enough,

Of course, the big issue is the drunk-driving problem. As much as I think 21 is a fine age at which to set the limit for alcohol, get decent public transportation in the United States and I'm willing to shrug and say "meh." At least then we'll be no worse off than Europe.
In Europe, or at least France, the government tries to crack down on drunk-driving not by trying to discourage drinking but by implementing more stringent driving laws. If the United States did this, I think its drunk-driving related deaths could be even lower than in Europe (because, although it's not one-hundred percent effective, a ban on drinking is going to mean fewer people drinking).

When individual families do it, with parents showing teens how to drink and cutting them off when they've had enough? All signs point to yes. Unfortunately, you can't force parents to be responsible, and the statistics show that even in Europe the number of families that teach responsible drinking is small and dwindling.

Of course, the big issue is the drunk-driving problem. As much as I think 21 is a fine age at which to set the limit for alcohol, get decent public transportation in the United States and I'm willing to shrug and say "meh." At least then we'll be no worse off than Europe.

Well, your first argument was a good catch, but I wasn't really making the argument that the drinking age should be lowered because you can enlist in the Army at 18. I know it's kind of hard to disseminate my intentions just from my first post because I haven't an argument after it, but I was just posing the question. I feel that the age, although it seems a bit high, should stay right around where it is.

I really don't have anything for your comparison between drunks in America and Europe because, although America has more drunk driving deaths, that is indeed because Europe's mass transit system is vastly superior. I really do hope we spend more money on transportation, too (1. I work for a construction & engineering company and 2. I'm fed up with the traffic).

Finally, I feel that there are enough responsible parents in America to significantly reduce the number of drunk driving deaths, even if that number is slowly dwindling.

I'm sure Europeans won't much mind this debate, since a good number of European countries allow people under 21 (or further down) to drink alcohol. Alas, in America, youths under the age of 21 aren't allowed to. Although they are able to destroy their lungs, vote, and go kill themselves abroad by the age of 18, they aren't allowed to get plastered enough to lick their sisters. And, yet, there are a seldom few countries that have as many teenage and adult alcoholics as America.

The government and watchdog organizations across the States tout that, since 1991, underage consumption of alcohol has dropped from 31% to 26% in 2006. It seems to me, however, that America has the same number (or greater) of underage alcohol comsumers despite the drop of consumers per capita due to the large increase of the 21 and under population.

I personally dislike alcohol because of its taste. I was introduced to the substance at the age of 15 (could have been 16, it was around that time). I've never felt the urge to drink in large quantities or get plastered with friends. I've been interested in my experiences now because of a couple of published books that I've become aware of that postulate that the best way to drive off underage drinking is for parents to introduce it to their children.

Thus, my question is this: Do you feel that introducing alcohol to teens decreases their chance of abusing it at a later age or time? And have you had any experiences with this, either it being introduced to you as a child or you introducing it to your child?


I would guess yes. But you have to look at the culture too.
If there is a lot of drinking by adults, there will be a lot of drinking by the
younger ones.

I come from the drinkingest state in the union. And there are many
people who drink before they are 18. Some even before high school.
There have been exchange students come from European countries
and never really got the "binge drinking" thing - go out and get plastered.
But being state-side and not being able to drink now and then, they could see
why people went to lane parties out in the middle of nowhere and just got plastered.

Not that there is anything wrong with even getting plastered now and then. Because after all, what do you drink for if not to get drunk?
the taste? yeah right.

Did your parents ever teach you about alcohol before that happened? Or let you have a sip of their drink?
They did, but obviously never enough to actually let me feel anything.

They should lower the drinking age to 18 simply because of all of the other rights you obtain at 18, including the right to die for your country. However, any younger than that is just a bad idea.

actually I should point out that 19 states allow consumption of alchohol by people under 21. All states on the other hand prohibit purchase of alchohol by someone under 21

They did, but obviously never enough to actually let me feel anything.
I think parents should give their 12 - 15 year olds a shot of tequila and let them experience.. the burn!
actually I should point out that 19 states allow consumption of alchohol by people under 21. All states on the other hand prohibit purchase of alchohol by someone under 21

Is it purchase and serve?

ie: Open bars.

This isn't a problem in Europe--or at least not nearly so much a problem as it is in the United States--and this has nothing whatsoever to do with the mythical "healthy drinking culture." Rather, it has to do with public transportation.

That's right. Public transportation. Kids in Europe drink, kids in Europe binge till their eyes pop out... and then kids in Europe stagger to a train station instead of hopping in a car.This is true. Up here, any form of public transit has to take you if you are pissed, free of charge. If the driver refuses, and you get caught driving drunk, transit gets in shit. If you are, for example, able to record the bus number (and as much as you think "you would be to drunk to remember that", it is something we are made quite aware of at school. so aware that we do remember) and call transit, that bus driver is going to get in shit too (ie suspended, fired, etc.

I think introduction @ an early age is good. It teaches kids reasonable drinking. Which is probably one of the reasons why Alcohol abuse is so low in europe as comparible to the US.
No it's because Europe has a different stance on the social aspects of Alcohol.

In there it's something to do, and it's the same for youth.

In America it's "Cool" and encouraged to make it part of the drug culture.

At least that's how they target it to teens.

No. Look at Scotland.
I just don't accept that Scotland is any worse than elsewhere in the U.K. for youth drunkenness.

Of course, I may be biased.

In Europe, or at least France, the government tries to crack down on drunk-driving not by trying to discourage drinking but by implementing more stringent driving laws. If the United States did this, I think its drunk-driving related deaths could be even lower than in Europe (because, although it's not one-hundred percent effective, a ban on drinking is going to mean fewer people drinking).
Erm it's really a combination of the two in Europe, and France is a poor example of your argument, seeing as the Loi Evin stops alcohol from being promoted most of the time on TV and radio etc. (can't remember the exact details tbh) and there are many campaigns, especially aimed at the youth, to stop drink-driving.

Drink-driving laws vary a bit, but they're usually only about as stringent as in the states, and in France, which has about 35% of all deaths on the road based on alcohol. Under Chirac, the death toll has fallen to about the European average, though.

Yes, but not before the age of 16 because then it's even more dangerous for the development of your brain and I hate it when I see children of 14 or something drunk.

With what? That the government shouldn't be regulating what goes on inside a home? Or that it's technically illegal?

On the teaching of responsible drinking.

This is true. Up here, any form of public transit has to take you if you are pissed, free of charge. If the driver refuses, and you get caught driving drunk, transit gets in shit. If you are, for example, able to record the bus number (and as much as you think "you would be to drunk to remember that", it is something we are made quite aware of at school. so aware that we do remember) and call transit, that bus driver is going to get in shit too (ie suspended, fired, etc.

Free public transport for drunks? Awesome. Wish we had that.

I'll introduce my belt to my child's rear if he or she ever came home drunk. Parents should be very strict about alcohol use and enforce their policies.

Some states don't allow cigarettes at 18 anymore. New Jersey has it at 19, much to my dismay that I would have to wait another year to get the little calendar paper thing with my birthday on it. Voting has nothing to do with alcohol consumption. Cigarettes do not cause car crashes. The military is noble and a duty of citizens.

Only if we introduce the death penalty for drunk driving.

If you make it legal it would probably reduce abuse because it wouldn't have the "forbidden fruit" appeal about it. Besides no listens to the age limit anyway. If someone wants to drink they can easily get whatever they want one way or another(especially in college), and yes I speak from experience.

Well, I've been in the US for two weeks now, and the drinking culture in San Diego (I'm on an exchange year from leeds, england) is very different. In essence, it is like being 15 again. You drink a lot more, when you can, and there is a constant danger of getting busted by the campus officials and the police. Back home, this danger ended at 18 (not that it stopped us), and so people in university are a lot more relaxed when it comes to drinking. It is not something that needs to be hidden, it is easily available, and people don't go so overboard when they do drink.

That's the impression I get, anyway. It seems silly in the extreme to stop people who are independent adults from drinking responsibly, and to drive them underground. Having said that, looking at the attitude of the freshman here - a change in the drinking age to 18 would be like lowering the UK age to 15. Certainly something that would have to be phased in over several years. It would also require a change in the attitude to alcohol nationwide.

I'll introduce my belt to my child's rear if he or she ever came home drunk. Parents should be very strict about alcohol use and enforce their policies.

Some states don't allow cigarettes at 18 anymore. New Jersey has it at 19, much to my dismay that I would have to wait another year to get the little calendar paper thing with my birthday on it. Voting has nothing to do with alcohol consumption. Cigarettes do not cause car crashes. The military is noble and a duty of citizens.

If you read second post of two in this thread, you'd see I was only making observations when I made the statement you're referring to. It's not an argument, merely an observation.

So are you in favor of the status quo or not? I admit, underage drinking has dropped from 31% to 26% in 16 years ('91-'07). But having a universal policy that categorizes alcohol as a useless drug with no positive effects, all the while banning it until age 21 (which, I admit, should not be changed) makes alcohol incredibly appealing to teenagers because 1. It's widely available and 2. For the volume, it's fairly inexpensive, and 3. It's illegal, so it's cool.

I'm not advocating changing the age limit; I am advocating desensitizing children to the idea that alcohol is dangerous and having parents teach their children responsible drinking inside the home, where it parents can regulate their child's alcohol consumption.

The fact that it is taboo until a later age glamourizes it. I believe that with more education in earlier years it would be less of a problem in north america than it currently is.

Why, then, did the United States raise the drinking age? Contrary to popular belief it had little to nothing to do with moralistic or paternalistic concerns about teenage drinking--rather, a drinking age of 21 was adopted primarily because it was found radically to decrease deaths due to alcohol-related motor vehicle accidents.Indeed. Thank/blame MADD.

I'm not advocating changing the age limit; I am advocating desensitizing children to the idea that alcohol is dangerous and having parents teach their children responsible drinking inside the home, where it parents can regulate their child's alcohol consumption.Meh. Teach 'em it's dangerous, then follow it up by taking them to the drunk tank.