NationStates Jolt Archive

It appears that many people on this forum have a problem with then and than. So, lets do a little review;

then
–adverb
1. at that time: Prices were lower then.
2. immediately or soon afterward: The rain stopped and then started again.
3. next in order of time: We ate, then we started home.
4. at the same time: At first the water seemed blue, then gray.
5. next in order of place: Standing beside Charlie is my uncle, then my cousin, then my brother.
6. in addition; besides; also: I love my job, and then it pays so well.
7. in that case; as a consequence; in those circumstances: If you're sick, then you should stay in bed.
8. since that is so; as it appears; therefore: You have, then, found the mistake? You are leaving tonight then.
–adjective
9. being; being such; existing or being at the time indicated: the then prime minister.
–noun
10. that time: We have not been back since then. Till then, farewell.
—Idioms
11. but then, but on the other hand: I found their conversation very dull, but then I have different tastes.
12. then and there, at that precise time and place; at once; on the spot: I started to pack my things right then and there. Also, there and then.

than
–conjunction
1. (used, as after comparative adjectives and adverbs, to introduce the second member of an unequal comparison): She's taller than I am.
2. (used after some adverbs and adjectives expressing choice or diversity, such as other, otherwise, else, anywhere, or different, to introduce an alternative or denote a difference in kind, place, style, identity, etc.): I had no choice other than that. You won't find such freedom anywhere else than in this country.
3. (used to introduce the rejected choice in expressions of preference): I'd rather walk than drive there.
4. except; other than: We had no choice than to return home.
5. when: We had barely arrived than we had to leave again.
–preposition
6. in relation to; by comparison with (usually fol. by a pronoun in the objective case): He is a person than whom I can imagine no one more courteous.

http://www.cooperativeindividualism.org/calvin-on-scientific-law.gif

:)

I don't think I do, but I never really thought about it. If I don't, it might because I didn't learn to use those words in speech before I started using them in writing. I don't think of them as being the same, or even similar, words because of the way they're pronounced. Same with their/they're/there and so on.

Link
:)

Lol - there's always one for every occasion but it's hard to go and find the exact one.

How about the difference between 'of' and 'for'

Director for the company
Director of the company

?

I've never been able to think of a good explanation.

I don't get them mixed up, sometimes I hit "a" when I mean to hit "e" and don't proof read carefully enough. The main difficulty I suffer is with "here" and "hear." For some reason, whenever I think of one, I type the other. For instance, in this post right hear.
It makes no sense, and probably has something to do with the subconscious government messages that are embedded into every movie distributed by Netflix. It's a conspiracy, I tells ya.

Never, and I ridicule anybody who does.*

*Excluding those with dyslexia, under 16 or for whom English isn't their native tongue.

And yet, the mod-who-is-an-English Teacher seldom feels the need to call people out on this, or other annoying but harmless errors such as:

too and to

Should of, would of, or could of, for the correct should have, would have and could have.

confusion of the words affect and effect

my personal favorite: Grammer for Grammar.

and well, the list goes on forever, and there's truly no reason to be lecturing others... ain't none of us perfect*.


*Yes, I am fully aware that was completely ungrammatical, utilizing a verb form that is now, but was not always considered, non-standard, plus a double negative which logically would mean that all of us ARE perfect. Tough. It's called irony, and it's being used for emphasis -- literary license, don'tcha know?

And yet, the mod-who-is-an-English Teacher seldom feels the need to call people out on this, or other annoying but harmless errors such as:

too and to

Should of, would of, or could of, for the correct should have, would have and could have.

confusion of the words affect and effect

my personal favorite: Grammer for Grammar.

and well, the list goes on forever, and there's truly no reason to be lecturing others... ain't none of us perfect*.


*Yes, I am fully aware that was completely ungrammatical, utilizing a verb form that is now, but was not always considered, non-standard, plus a double negative which logically would mean that all of us ARE perfect. Tough.

Perfection is a flaw. *nod*

Also, children in my writing class often mistake "are" for "our" and that is far more annoying than "accept/except" or "then/than".....

Perfection is a flaw. *nod*

Also, children in my writing class often mistake "are" for "our" and that is far more annoying than "accept/except" or "then/than".....

Understandable, though, because in your part of the country the two words are probably pronounced the same way.

In NYC, are sounds like what a pirate says (Arrrr!), and our sounds like ow-er. (like you're getting hit, OW!)

The main difficulty I suffer is with "here" and "hear." For some reason, whenever I think of one, I type the other. For instance, in this post right hear.

Here, here!

Yes, this is seen on NSG rather often, and it truly gets my goat. As do athiesm, beleive, there/they're/their, your/you're, randomly placed apostrophes, masterbation/grammer, affect/effect, thred, and would of / should of / could of. When I started on NS, I was a sixteen-year-old girl who'd been in her sixth year of learning English at school as a non-native language, and I'd never even have dreamed of doing these mistakes.

Oh, and alot/allot.

Affect - I don't have a clue when to use that word. However, there's a 99% chance you should probably be using effect anyway... so I just can't be bothered to figure it out and place my fate in the hands of statistical probability.

Understandable, though, because in your part of the country the two words are probably pronounced the same way.

In NYC, are sounds like what a pirate says (Arrrr!), and our sounds like ow-er. (like you're getting hit, OW!)

yes, they are pronounced nearly the same. effect and affect are pronounced differently but most don't understand when to use which......

effect is pronounced with the long e at the beginning and affect with the long a, but most people who aren't from around here say them nearly the same.

.....And I've been described as uptight...I think this thread tops that assertion...

Affect - I don't have a clue when to use that word.

That ignorance of yours affects me greatly; in fact, it might just effect a tantrum if I weren't such a calm, balanced human being.
However, there's a 99% chance you should probably be using effect anyway... so I just can't be bothered to figure it out and place my fate in the hands of statistical probability.

I very, very much doubt that statistic.

P.S.: http://onelook.com/?w=affect&ls=a

P.P.S.: If I leanred one thing in my Basic Writing class, it is to use and trust Purdue's OWL: http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/grammar/g_spelprob.html

And another one for good measure and because it looks like a nice site: http://web.ku.edu/~edit/affect.html

I'm bad at grammar, however as an Englishman its my language and I will do with how I please :p

My one: lose and loose. Seeing people called loosers is just odd.

Affect - I don't have a clue when to use that word. However, there's a 99% chance you should probably be using effect anyway... so I just can't be bothered to figure it out and place my fate in the hands of statistical probability.

As most people mean to use it:

Affect, the verb, to change.

This is going to affect my plans.

Effect, the noun, the result of a change.

The traffic jam had an affect on my ability to get to work; the effect was that I was late.


m-w.com explains it this way:

usage Effect and affect are often confused because of their similar spelling and pronunciation. The verb 2affect usually has to do with pretense <she affected a cheery disposition despite feeling down>. The more common 3affect denotes having an effect or influence <the weather affected everyone's mood>. The verb effect goes beyond mere influence; it refers to actual achievement of a final result <the new administration hopes to effect a peace settlement>. The uncommon noun affect, which has a meaning relating to psychology, is also sometimes mistakenly used for the very common effect. In ordinary use, the noun you will want is effect <waiting for the new law to take effect> <the weather had an effect on everyone's mood>.

Affect, the verb, to change.

This is going to affect my plans.

Effect, the noun, the result of a change.

The traffic jam affected my ability to get to work, the effect was that I was late.

*steals this for her students*

*steals this for her students*

LOL, but please don't steal my comma splice. ;)

Yes, and I edit myself on the board all the time... "Oh wait, that's not how that's spelled, is it?"

Oh, and alot/allot.

You mean a lot/allot. 'Alot' isn't a word. It's only a conspiracy theory constructed to annoy the hell out of English teachers.

Posts like hat always make me think of this pic:

http://nastyhobbit.files.wordpress.com/2005/10/grammartime.gif

"each other"

I always forget if it's spelled as one word or two.

I normally misspell things because I'm trying to type too quickly. I'm not sure I use commas, (semi-)colons and dashes correctly though.

As most people mean to use it:

Affect, the verb, to change.

This is going to affect my plans.

Effect, the noun, the result of a change.

The traffic jam had an affect on my ability to get to work; the effect was that I was late.


m-w.com explains it this way:

usage Effect and affect are often confused because of their similar spelling and pronunciation. The verb 2affect usually has to do with pretense <she affected a cheery disposition despite feeling down>. The more common 3affect denotes having an effect or influence <the weather affected everyone's mood>. The verb effect goes beyond mere influence; it refers to actual achievement of a final result <the new administration hopes to effect a peace settlement>. The uncommon noun affect, which has a meaning relating to psychology, is also sometimes mistakenly used for the very common effect. In ordinary use, the noun you will want is effect <waiting for the new law to take effect> <the weather had an effect on everyone's mood>.

so really the only commonly used noun form of the verb affect is affectation? if i am tempted to use affect itself as a noun, im most likely wrong?

No, but that's probably because im not a native english speaker, when you speak a language that's not your own, you pay more attention to any mistake you could make.

Posts like hat always make me think of this pic:

http://nastyhobbit.files.wordpress.com/2005/10/grammartime.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/Katganistan/katsseal-1.jpg

:)

"each other"

I always forget if it's spelled as one word or two.

Two words.

so really the only commonly used noun form of the verb affect is affectation? if i am tempted to use affect itself as a noun, im most likely wrong?

Not necessarily: only in the use I see here most often.

In Psychology, you can speak of "absence of affect" and it's a noun.... it depends on the context.

confusion of the words affect and effect


I always seem to have a problem with those two. :(

[IMG] Not necessarily: only in the use I see here most often.

In Psychology, you can speak of "absence of affect" and it's a noun.... it depends on the context.

yeah but if i ever use a phrase like "absence of affect" i hope someone smacks me upside the head for it. i know little about psychology.

affect and effect were the only words i got messed up back in 7th grade when we went over all the words that get confused for each other. ive never gotten them straight.

LOL, but please don't steal my comma splice. ;)

Yes, and I edit myself on the board all the time... "Oh wait, that's not how that's spelled, is it?"

I edit frequently too, sometimes I get is so quick the edit thingy doesn't even show. :)

I never ever ever ever get them mixed up.

It appears that many people on this forum have a problem with then and than. So, let's do a little review:

Murphy's law: whenever correcting someone else's grammar, inevitably, our own slips will show. ;)

I look forward to the flood of posts which will point out my current brainfarts! :D

[Edit]Just for shits and giggles:

Aim: How can we avoid misusing commonly confused words?

Objective: To teach the difference between some commonly confused words.

Do Now: Complete the worksheet I have just handed out.

Procedure: Instructor will go over commonly confused words, and elicit the correct definitions for each word from the students.

1. About-around
About means approximately. When you run about four blocks, you cover a distance of approximately four blocks.
Around means starting at one point and coming back to that same point. In mathematics, the word for around is circumference. When you run around four blocks, you cover more ground than if you were to run about four blocks.

2. Accept-except
Accept means to receive or take something that is offered.
Except means (1) to take out or leave out anything; (2) other than.

To except something is to leave it out of consideration.

During the war, all fathers were, for a time, excepted from selective service rulings.
or
During the war, selective service drafted all men except
(other than) fathers.

3. Adapt-adopt
When you adopt a child, you take the child as your own.
When you adopt a plan, you take over the plan and put it into Use.
Adopt, then, means to take as your own what was originally not your own, You can never adopt yourself.
However, you can adapt yourself because adapt means to adjust to new conditions.
Note: If you are offered a plan for building a model airplane, you can either adopt the plan (take it over as your own without any changes) or adapt the plan (change it in some respects to suit your own needs).

4. Addition-edition
Addition means something added, the act or process of adding.
We are building an addition to our house.

Edition means all the copies of a book or newspaper or magazine issued at the same time.
The second edition of The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes was sold out in a few days.

5. Admission-admittance
Admittance is used almost always in the sense of being allowed to enter. No admittance means you can't enter.
Admission means a number of things:
1. A fee paid for being allowed to enter. Fifty cents is the price of admission.
2. The act of being received or being allowed to enter. Gaining admission to college these days is difficult.
3. Owning up to an accusation or statement.
He admitted (owned up to) his part in the crime.
His admission of his part in the crime shocked everyone.




6. Advice-advise
Advice is the noun. Advise is the verb. Advice rhymes with nice. Advise rhymes with prize.
Take my advice, young man, and go West.
Mr. Jones will advise you about what you should do next.
We advise you not to take Route 6.
Wise children follow the advice of their parents.

7. Affect-effect
Affect is always a verb-nothing else. It means:
1. To impress or to influence or to move or to act on (generally the mind or feelings). Bach's music affects me (moves me) deeply.
2. To assume the character or appearance of-to put on. He affects a British accent and manner.

Effect is both a noun and a verb. As a noun, it means:
1. A result or consequence or outcome. We shall long feel the effects of the Gulf War.
2. Fulfillment or accomplishment. We shall do all we can to carry your plan into effect.
3. The making of an impression. He did this chiefly for effect.
As a verb, it means:
To bring about, to execute-often in the face of difficulties or obstacles.
The doctor effected a miraculous cure.
Note: Effects (plural) means goods or possessions: household effects, personal effects.

8. Aggravate-annoy
Aggravate means to make something worse. That's the only sense in which it is used correctly.
Words like annoy, irritate, exasperate are not synonyms for aggravate.

9. Alley-ally
Many people confuse these two words-possibly because they look so much alike.
Alley (rhymes with Sally) is a narrow back street; a long, narrow, enclosed place for bowling.
Ally (the noun) is a person or nation united with another for a special purpose. (Pronounced a-lie or al-lie)
Ally (the verb) means to unite by formal agreement as by treaty (to enter into alliance).
(Pronounced a-lie)
During World War II, England was our ally.
France decided to ally herself with the United States.

10. All ready-already
All ready means quite or completely ready.
The furniture is all ready to be moved.
Already means before the time; by this time; even now; by now.
The men have already been warned of the approaching storm.



Homework: Using these class notes, make sure that your essay is free from problems caused by word confusion.

Make sure to bring in your completed current draft tomorrow, to be corrected and returned to you Friday.
You will be expected to rewrite your FINAL draft of the reflective essay over the weekend.

I cannot tell a lie: this lesson and the worksheet that follows came from a grammar handbook, but I'll be darned if I recall which one it is.

I also do to, too and two; bear and bare; who's and whose; pair, pear and pare; there, they're and their at the same time of this lesson, as well as its and it's.

Here's the worksheet I usually hand out to go with the lesson:

DO YOU KNOW THE DIFFERENCE?

Do Now: Choose the correct word from the words in parentheses. We will go over the correct words in fifteen minutes.

1. Frank ran (around, about) a hundred yards.
2. Henry Ford owned (around, about) a billion dollars in industrial equipment.
3. Everyone had a good time (accept, except) me.
4. Please (accept, except) this gift as a token of our gratitude for all you have done.
5. Stray dogs and cats have difficulty in trying to (adopt, adapt) themselves to life in a house.
6. If you want to be happy, you must learn to (adopt, adapt) a different attitude.
7. When does the publisher plan to issue the next (addition, edition) of Riders of the Purple Sage?
8. When the (addition, edition) to the building is completed, it will be used to store all the company's records.
9. The sign read, "Private! No (Admission, Admittance)!"
10. The price of (admission, admittance) is fifteen cents.
11. The defendant's (admission, admittance) made it clear that the jury would find him guilty.
12. Listen to the (advice, advise) of your elders.
13. Our investment department is ready to (advice, advise) you about the safest investments you can make.
14. We have not yet learned exactly how the atomic bomb (affects, effects) human beings.
15. Spoiled food is sure to have a bad (affect, effect) on your digestion.
16. His appeal (affected, effected) the parents deeply.
17. The passage of the English Channel was (affected, effected) with great difficulty.
18. His manners (aggravate, annoy, irritate) me.
19. This is the most (aggravating, annoying, irritating) thing that has ever happened to me. Running up and down stairs will (aggravate, annoy, irritate) even the mildest heart disease.
20. Barclay was murdered in a dark (ally, alley).
21. In times like these, our country needs every (ally, alley) it can get.
22. Do you think the United States will (ally, alley) herself with the European powers?
23. The men are (all ready, already) to leave for Europe.
24. We have (all ready, already) applied for our passports.

You mean a lot/allot. 'Alot' isn't a word. It's only a conspiracy theory constructed to annoy the hell out of English teachers.

No, I meant alot/allot, because both annoy me equally; 'a lot' would not annoy me and therefore isn't on my list, which you might have noticed to only contain words that are (in the case of there/their etc. only potentially) misspelled. :]

I'm bad at grammar, however as an Englishman its my language and I will do with how I please :p

Exactly. The people control the language, not the other way round.
Either way, the outcome is identical.

As most people mean to use it:

Affect, the verb, to change.

This is going to affect my plans.

Effect, the noun, the result of a change.

The traffic jam had an affect on my ability to get to work; the effect was that I was late.That seemed to make sense.

m-w.com explains it this way:

usage Effect and affect are often confused because of their similar spelling and pronunciation. The verb 2affect usually has to do with pretense <she affected a cheery disposition despite feeling down>. The more common 3affect denotes having an effect or influence <the weather affected everyone's mood>. The verb effect goes beyond mere influence; it refers to actual achievement of a final result <the new administration hopes to effect a peace settlement>. The uncommon noun affect, which has a meaning relating to psychology, is also sometimes mistakenly used for the very common effect. In ordinary use, the noun you will want is effect <waiting for the new law to take effect> <the weather had an effect on everyone's mood>.That just confuses me. The only way I might really use affect is as 3. But that says 'affect denotes having an effect'...

I think I was taught to use 'to have an effect' rather than to use 'to affect'. Therefore, there is no instance in which I would use 'affect'.

I don't get them mixed up, sometimes I hit "a" when I mean to hit "e" and don't proof read carefully enough. The main difficulty I suffer is with "here" and "hear." For some reason, whenever I think of one, I type the other. For instance, in this post right hear.
It makes no sense, and probably has something to do with the subconscious government messages that are embedded into every movie distributed by Netflix. It's a conspiracy, I tells ya.
Me too, My typing sucks ass.
I used to go back and carefully proofread everything I posted. But anymore, I figure if people can at least tell what the hell I'm talking about, that will suffice.

~snip common errors~

*steals*

also

1. Always avoid alliteration.
2. Prepositions are not words to end sentences with.
3. Avoid cliches like the plague—they're old hat.
4. Employ the vernacular.
5. Eschew ampersands & abbreviations, etc.
6. Parenthetical remarks (however relevant) are unnecessary.
7. Parenthetical words however must be enclosed in commas.
8. It is wrong to ever split an infinitive.
9. Contractions aren't necessary.
10. Do not use a foreign word when there is an adequate English quid pro quo.
11. One should never generalize.
12. Eliminate quotations. As Ralph Waldo Emerson once said: "I hate quotations. Tell me what you know."
13. Comparisons are as bad as cliches.
14. Don't be redundant; don't use more words than necessary; it's highly superfluous.
15. It behooves you to avoid archaic expressions.
16. Avoid archaeic spellings too.
17. Understatement is always best.
18. Exaggeration is a billion times worse than understatement.
19. One-word sentences? Eliminate. Always!
20. Analogies in writing are like feathers on a snake.
21. The passive voice should not be used.
22. Go around the barn at high noon to avoid colloquialisms.
23. Don't repeat yourself, or say again what you have said before.
24. Who needs rhetorical questions?
25. Don't use commas, that, are not, necessary.
26. Do not use hyperbole; not one in a million can do it effectively.
27. Never use a big word when a diminutive alternative would suffice.



28. Subject and verb always has to agree.
29. Be more or less specific.
30. Placing a comma between subject and predicate, is not correct.
31. Use youre spell chekker to avoid mispeling and to catch typograhpical errers.
32. Don't repeat yourself, or say again what you have said before.
33. Don't be redundant.
34. Use the apostrophe in it's proper place and omit it when its not needed.
35. Don't never use no double negatives.
36. Poofread carefully to see if you any words out.
37. Hopefully, you will use words correctly, irregardless of how others use them.
38. Eschew obfuscation.
39. No sentence fragments.
40. Don't indulge in sesquipedalian lexicological constructions.
41. A writer must not shift your point of view.
42. Don't overuse exclamation marks!!
43. Place pronouns as close as possible, especially in long sentences, as of 10 or more words, to their antecedents.
44. Writing carefully, dangling participles must be avoided.
45. If any word is improper at the end of a sentence, a linking verb is.
46. Avoid trendy locutions that sound flaky.
47. Everyone should be careful to use a singular pronoun with singular nouns in their writing.
48. Always pick on the correct idiom.
49. The adverb always follows the verb.
50. Take the bull by the hand and avoid mixing metaphors.
51. If you reread your work, you can find on rereading a great deal of repetition can be by rereading and editing.
52. And always be sure to finish what

*steals*

also

1. Always avoid alliteration.
2. Prepositions are not words to end sentences with. ~snippage~

I don't suppose you've heard of Tallulah Bankhead?

I very bad girl, and Southern to the core. When in New York, she was hobnobbing with some of the social elite and asked one woman "Where are you from?" The woman told her she was from "a place we don't end our sentences with a preposition."
To which Tallulah replied "Where are you from, bitch?"

I like a few of her other quips, too.

“Cocaine isn't habit forming. I should know-I've been using it for years.”

“I read Shakespeare and the Bible, and I can shoot dice. That's what I call a liberal education.”

“I've tried several varieties of sex. The conventional position makes me claustrophobic and the others give me a stiff neck or lockjaw.”

Then and than are the same word in my mind but I know perfectly well when to spell that word then and when to spell it than. My fingers are so used to typing then that they sometimes hit the e out of habit when I meant to type than though.

I keep thinking about "each other" and "no one" as one word instead of two but still know to spell them as two. I also think of dunno as a real word even though it should be the two words don't know.

I often get a feeling I'm using the word the too often because in Swedish we conjugate words instead. It just doesn't feel right to use the same word five or seven times in the same sentence like for example:
"A car was approaching a guard post. When the guard with the funny hat looked out the window and saw the car on the road he took the iron key and unlocked the door."

The ; sign is never used in Swedish so I haven't got the slightest idea how to use it in English. The only way to use semicolon that I know of is to mark the end of lines in programming languages. That sign is one of the most confusing parts of the English language.

I thought advice vs advise was a British vs American spelling issue until reading Katganistan's explanation here, thanks.

Murphy's law: whenever correcting someone else's grammar, inevitably, our own slips will show. ;)

Yep! I taint purrfect. :fluffle::p

My pitfall is usually "from" and "form". With the way I type, there are many times that they awfully mix-up, and I cannot usually spot them because they are both accepted by the spellchecker.

Thank you, Oklatex. This is better than my rule of thumb: if it is temporal, use 'then', if it is comparing, 'than'. But then, i guess I am excused to a point for not being a native speaker...

This is too disturbing to comment on. That people cannot tell the difference... *shudder*

Thank you, Oklatex. This is better than my rule of thumb: if it is temporal, use 'then', if it is comparing, 'than'. But then, i guess I am excused to a point for not being a native speaker...

You can get 15 points for not being a native speaker. :fluffle:

Affect - I don't have a clue when to use that word. However, there's a 99% chance you should probably be using effect anyway... so I just can't be bothered to figure it out and place my fate in the hands of statistical probability.

Affect is a verb with only one exception: it can refer (usually in psychological contexts) to a person's emotions. The "affect" (emphasis on the first syllable) is the emotional state. That's rare enough to make the "affect is ALWAYS a verb" nearly correct.

As most people mean to use it:

Affect, the verb, to change.

This is going to affect my plans.

Effect, the noun, the result of a change.

The traffic jam had an affect on my ability to get to work; the effect was that I was late.


Nope. Once you saddled "affect" with an article, you made it a noun. The bolded part should be "had an effect".

Or: "The traffic jam affected my ability to get to work...."

Damn that passive voice.

THE SEMICOLON.

I was taught that the semicolon takes the place of a comma/conjuntion when the second phrase modifies or affects the first. It basically makes one compound sentence out of two nominally complete sentences.

There was nothing we could do because the damage was too severe.

There was nothing we could do; the damage was too severe.

Also, it separates nouns in a list when the nouns themselves contain commas. In this sense it acts like an "uber-comma". A good example is lists of cities:

We went to Omaha, Nebraska; Sioux Falls, South Dakota; and Sioux City, Iowa.

I hope that helps.

1. About-around
About means approximately. When you run about four blocks, you cover a distance of approximately four blocks.
Around means starting at one point and coming back to that same point. In mathematics, the word for around is circumference. When you run around four blocks, you cover more ground than if you were to run about four blocks.

8. Aggravate-annoy
Aggravate means to make something worse. That's the only sense in which it is used correctly.
Words like annoy, irritate, exasperate are not synonyms for aggravate.


...

Bah, screw them! I disagree with these two. *is aggravated*

*well, not exactly aggravated, the point he's trying to make is, he thinks aggravated is a mood similar to annoyed, but recognizes it is also used in cases meaning 'to make worse' which annoy does not apply to. *

*but he definitely knows the mathmatical meaning of 'around' is not the end of it.*

I try really hard not to let grammatical errors by people I have never met (and therefore have no frame of reference to judge) annoy me, and they generally don't.

However, I do get annoyed from time to time by people consistently mixing up 'where' and 'were' and -- my pet hate -- 'mute' and 'moot'. I mean, come on... it's not like 'moot' is a word that people should be using unless they actually understand what it means.

Still, it's easy for someone like me to fall into some kind of false sense of righteousness about it all. I only ever had proper schooling in a single language, English and, other than half-remembered snippets of 2 years of French and German all those years ago at school and a smattering of Dutch I've picked up since, I'm pretty helpless outside of it.

I'd gladly trade a few grammatical errors for the ability to get by in another language. :)

Nope. Once you saddled "affect" with an article, you made it a noun. The bolded part should be "had an effect".

Or: "The traffic jam affected my ability to get to work...."

Oops. What was I saying about my brainfarts being pointed out to me?
:D

...

Bah, screw them! I disagree with these two. *is aggravated*

*well, not exactly aggravated, the point he's trying to make is, he thinks aggravated is a mood similar to annoyed, but recognizes it is also used in cases meaning 'to make worse' which annoy does not apply to. *

*but he definitely knows the mathmatical meaning of 'around' is not the end of it.*

You may disagree, but unfortunately, you would be incorrect, as are the many, many people who say they are aggravated. The only case in which it would be correct if if the person were already in a bad mood (had a fight with his significant other) and then got a ticket for making a right turn on red in a municipality where such a thing were illegal (making his bad mood worse).

from m-w.com:

usage Although aggravate has been used in sense 3a since the 17th century, it has been the object of disapproval only since about 1870. It is used in expository prose <when his silly conceit…about his not-very-good early work has begun to aggravate us — William Styron> but seems to be more common in speech and casual writing <a good profession for him, because bus drivers get aggravated— Jackie Gleason (interview, 1986)> <& now this letter comes to aggravate me a thousand times worse — Mark Twain (letter, 1864)>. Sense 2 is far more common than sense 3a in published prose. Such is not the case, however, with aggravation and aggravating. Aggravation is used in sense 3 somewhat more than in its earlier senses; aggravating has practically no use other than to express annoyance.

Useful links:
http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/grammar/g_spelhomo.html
http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/grammar/g_spelprob.html
http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/grammar/g_commacompEX1.html

usage Although aggravate has been used in sense 3a since the 17th century, it has been the object of disapproval only since about 1870. It is used in expository prose <when his silly conceit…about his not-very-good early work has begun to aggravate us — William Styron> but seems to be more common in speech and casual writing <a good profession for him, because bus drivers get aggravated— Jackie Gleason (interview, 1986)> <& now this letter comes to aggravate me a thousand times worse — Mark Twain (letter, 1864)>. Sense 2 is far more common than sense 3a in published prose. Such is not the case, however, with aggravation and aggravating. Aggravation is used in sense 3 somewhat more than in its earlier senses; aggravating has practically no use other than to express annoyance.

So, wait, If I'm reading that paragraph correctly...It's actually starting on four centuries now and they still can't admit it's an alternative meaning?

I hate grammar Nazi's. Leave us alone, and go learn French.

I hate grammar Nazi's. Leave us alone, and go learn French.

Er, Posi, you're abusing that poor apostrophe there. Apostrophes are not meant as "Warning! INCOMING S!"

(And if you don't like the discussion, no one's forcing you to read it.)

So, wait, If I'm reading that paragraph correctly...It's actually starting on four centuries now and they still can't admit it's an alternative meaning?

More like, it's starting on four centuries that this has been considered incorrect in any formal writing.

Er, Posi, you're abusing that poor apostrophe there. Apostrophes are not meant as "Warning! INCOMING S!"

(And if you don't like the discussion, no one's forcing you to read it.)Yeah, I tend to suck at punctuation. The good thing is, it is one of the easier technical mistakes people notice when proof reading.

(But I am debating.)

i don't see them as a problem at all. if meaning cannot be infered unambiguously from context, one or the other or both of us is being slightly retarded. as happens occasionally since none of us are infallable. but this kind of nonsense is just as silly.

(now if i was submitting a manuscript for publication that would be a different matter entirely. but as i'm no where near that ambitious, nor brave, i see the point as being rather accademic)

=^^=
.../\...