NationStates Jolt Archive

John Edwards has warned us of an impending danger to the nation:

If he is not elected president, we run the very serious risk of Peak Black People, where all black males are either in prison or dead. The consequences of this on the American society and economy are too dire to need to be spelled out here.

As a nation we must prepare for the very real prospect of Peak Black People

We must preserve and conserve our black people here at home and strive to make them last as long as we can.

It would be an immense blow not only to our economy but to our national security if we were forced to rely on foreign black people, subject to the whims of foreign powers.

We must devote our national industrial and intellectual might to devising alternative sources of diversity that to not rely on Black People.

Peak Black People is COMING!!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,298526,00.html

And he'd know because he speaks to the dead, right?

In all seriousness, the mandatory sentencing minimums in America are unfair and need to be changed.

lol.

Why?

Why should a person who commits armed robbery get only 1 year? (example)

And he'd know because he speaks to the dead, right?

You're thinking of someone else with a different name.

In all seriousness, the mandatory sentencing minimums in America are unfair and need to be changed.

So what he's saying is that if the only means to curbing inner city violence is to incarcerate and build prisons, the end result will be that the population will be in prison or dead? Hmm... Shocking, I must say.

I notice that they didn't bother examining his actual response either.


Also, Fox News is being fun:
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lol.

Why?

Why should a person who commits armed robbery get only 1 year? (example)

Just did a quick google search and got this (http://creativedestruction.wordpress.com/2006/11/15/crack-cocaine-sentencing-systematic-racism-at-work/) which sums it up well enough.

Who cares? You choose your own fate, and if blacks want to be in jail or get killed fighting in gang wars, it's their choice.

Quite right. Them blacks chose to be born in a ghetto.
Heck, most of them chose to be born poor and black as well.

So what? Many people have been in a far worse situation than that. In fact, compared to most of the world, that's an IDEAL situation.

Who cares? You choose your own fate, and if blacks want to be in jail or get killed fighting in gang wars, it's their choice.
Quite right. Them blacks chose to be born in a ghetto.
Heck, most of them chose to be born poor and black as well.

In all seriousness, the mandatory sentencing minimums in America are unfair and need to be changed.

Seconded.

John Edwards has warned us of an impending danger to the nation:

If he is not elected president, we run the very serious risk of Peak Black People, where all black males are either in prison or dead. The consequences of this on the American society and economy are too dire to need to be spelled out here.

As a nation we must prepare for the very real prospect of Peak Black People

We must preserve and conserve our black people here at home and strive to make them last as long as we can.

It would be an immense blow not only to our economy but to our national security if we were forced to rely on foreign black people, subject to the whims of foreign powers.

We must devote our national industrial and intellectual might to devising alternative sources of diversity that to not rely on Black People.

Peak Black People is COMING!!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,298526,00.html
WOW!! Both you and Fox news got it all wrong. :eek:

Hyperbole and fantasy abound.

Now what did he really say? Click on the video (http://www.breitbart.tv/html/6142.html).

Never mind the out of context below the video.

Quite right. Them blacks chose to be born in a ghetto.
Heck, most of them chose to be born poor and black as well.

Well, I'd like to see the liberals come up with an excuse for that.

You Americans need to start switching to renewable sources of working class labour, and forget the fossil working class that is Black America. Switch to Mexicans and prevent global warming.

John Edwards has warned us of an impending danger to the nation:

If he is not elected president, we run the very serious risk of Peak Black People, where all black males are either in prison or dead. The consequences of this on the American society and economy are too dire to need to be spelled out here.

As a nation we must prepare for the very real prospect of Peak Black People

We must preserve and conserve our black people here at home and strive to make them last as long as we can.

It would be an immense blow not only to our economy but to our national security if we were forced to rely on foreign black people, subject to the whims of foreign powers.

We must devote our national industrial and intellectual might to devising alternative sources of diversity that to not rely on Black People.

Peak Black People is COMING!!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,298526,00.html

If they're all dead or in prison, wouldn't that be the opposite of peak black people?

Quite right. Them blacks chose to be born in a ghetto.
Heck, most of them chose to be born poor and black as well.

They don't chose to, no, but unfortunately, it seems a large part of ebonic culture and celebrity glorifies a violent and troubled upbringing, and an equally violent and troubled adulthood.

lol.

Why?

Why should a person who commits armed robbery get only 1 year? (example)

Depends on the case. That's why that's the sort of thing that's supposed to be left in the hands of judges. DA's are elected officials and want to be seen as tough on crime by getting the maximum sentences they can. Judges usually aren't and are more likely to make their decisions based on the case.

You know how windows crashes and programs have to shut down from time to time? That's because however smoothly running a machine is, it's still a machine and sometimes the decisions that were made in advance aren't going to be up to the job. It gets "bugs."

That's why you get things like life in prison for cheating on your spouse (http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=59535) from a law that was intended as, or at least given popular support to be, an anti child-molestation and rape law. Or buying allergy medicine for you child (http://www.wqad.com/Global/story.asp?S=5477392&nav=menu132_5).

Laws are too important to be left in the hands of police and prosecutors.

They don't chose to, no, but unfortunately, it seems a large part of ebonic culture and celebrity glorifies a violent and troubled upbringing, and an equally violent and troubled adulthood.

It is quite ironically art imitating life AND life imitating art.

WOW!! Both you and Fox news got it all wrong. :eek:

Hyperbole and fantasy abound.

Now what did he really say? Click on the video (http://www.breitbart.tv/html/6142.html).

Never mind the out of context below the video.

/thread

He prefaces the statement quoted with "The president of the United States says" and that is completely ignored.

/thread

He prefaces the statement quoted with "The president of the United States says" and that is completely ignored.
They also manage to conveniently ignore the end of his sentence, where he says better education is what's needed to prevent this happening. In other words, presenting a problem then giving a solution.

Funny how Fox managed to overlook that.

Funny how Fox managed to overlook that.

There's a reason they call it "Faux" news.

They also manage to conveniently ignore the end of his sentence, where he says better education is what's needed to prevent this happening. In other words, presenting a problem then giving a solution.

Funny how Fox managed to overlook that.

For some reason, I'm not at all surprised.

"Context" sounds like such a foreign word.

You Americans need to start switching to renewable sources of working class labour, and forget the fossil working class that is Black America. Switch to Mexicans and prevent global warming.

I'd sig that, but I have no more room.

If they're all dead or in prison, wouldn't that be the opposite of peak black people?

Well, peak oil is where we reach an apex in the ammount of oil available, and the available oil then declines forever until it is all gone.

The day that John Edwards speaks of is not one that is coming up especially soon, but if we aren't careful, we will indeed reach peak black people, where the number of black people available reaches its apex, and then declines forever until they are all gone.

We must find alternative sources of diversity or else we will be forced into a position where we must rely on foreign black people to feed our addiction to diversity and keep our economy running.

WOW!! Both you and Fox news got it all wrong. :eek:

Hyperbole and fantasy abound.

Now what did he really say? Click on the video (http://www.breitbart.tv/html/6142.html).

Never mind the out of context below the video.

That's fascinating! Tell me more!

That's fascinating! Tell me more!

I already did.

Might the real danger lie with a situation in which a whole culture of people, its young men dead or imprisoned, finds thats its generation of boys must grow up without father figures as positive male role models, and instead turn to street gangs and celebrity strongmen for inspiration and a sense of purpose and dream?

Might a culture so bereft of good role models for its boys find them to grow up lawless, misbehaving, unable to function in ordinary society, ending up in failure, turning to crime, going to prison and dying young?

Might the real danger in this situation be that a whole culture of people, its young men dead or imprisoned, finds that its generation of boys...

I already did.

Shocking! Amazing! What else do we need to know!?

So what? Many people have been in a far worse situation than that. In fact, compared to most of the world, that's an IDEAL situation.

Spoken as only a person in a position of privilege can speak it.

In all seriousness, the mandatory sentencing minimums in America are unfair and need to be changed.

Half the people that get put into prison don't even go in for their original crime...they give out a plea agreement and take a lesser charge...and hell half the time you can get out on parole before even your lesser sentence time is up..

and as to that article on cocaine crimes...because blacks do more crack than whites and thus more blacks go to jail for drug crimes thats racist....riiiight... that whole article was a joke...

Half the people that get put into prison don't even go in for their original crime...they give out a plea agreement and take a lesser charge...and hell half the time you can get out on parole before even your lesser sentence time is up..

and as to that article on cocaine crimes...because blacks do more crack than whites and thus more blacks go to jail for drug crimes thats racist....riiiight... that whole article was a joke...

That isn't what it is saying at all lol. Try reading it again.

That isn't what it is saying at all lol. Try reading it again.

Thats what it makes it sound like though...at the top it says about progressive racism..then it highlights a fact about whites doing 7% prosecuted 80% black.then about more blacks going to jail for it...just lock everyone up that will be fair and solve the problem...figures could also be coming from the neighborhoods...the police are patrolling...blacks in a lot of instances live in the inner cities where there is more crime...so that could account for higher prosecution rates...im running off of 1 1/2 hours of sleep so forgive my delirium and incoherence

Thats what it makes it sound like though...at the top it says about progressive racism..then it highlights a fact about whites doing 7% prosecuted 80% black.then about more blacks going to jail for it...just lock everyone up that will be fair and solve the problem

The main thing I was pointing it out for was because the mandatory minimum sentencing for crack cocaine is now 'racist' and putting blacks away unfairly. It wasn't designed to be this way, but it now is. Whites do mainly powder cocaine while blacks mainly do crack cocaine. The probably here being:

“distribution of just 5 grams of crack carries a minimum 5-year federal prison sentence, while for powder cocaine, distribution of 500 grams – 100 times the amount of crack cocaine – carries the same sentence.”

So yeah, that is whack.

eh i think if you get busted and your not carrying around a bunch of ____ and money then you should get a light a prison sentence and then a lengthy time in a rehab type thing...but if you get busted with a lot of ____ and money...which probably indicates you are a dealer not just a user then you should get a harsh prison sentence

eh i think if you get busted and your not carrying around a bunch of ____ and money then you should get a light a prison sentence and then a lengthy time in a rehab type thing...but if you get busted with a lot of ____ and money...which probably indicates you are a dealer not just a user then you should get a harsh prison sentence

Interesting... Can I ask you how old you are?

The main thing I was pointing it out for was because the mandatory minimum sentencing for crack cocaine is now 'racist' and putting blacks away unfairly. It wasn't designed to be this way, but it now is. Whites do mainly powder cocaine while blacks mainly do crack cocaine. The probably here being:



So yeah, that is whack.

Which drug is more socially destructive?

Would it be right to punish pot and crack dealers equally?

Might there be a compelling public interest to fight against crack more vehemently than against drugs which are less destructive?

If a law is reasonable by punishing dealers of more destructive drugs more harshly than dealers of less destructive drugs, and a certain sort of people incidentally are more likely to use the more rather than the less destructive drug, how is racism or unfairness involved or a motive?

If nothing else, the fact that black people are injured more by crack abuse than by cocaine abuse should lead to the conclusion that harsher penalties for crack dealers are beneficial to black people, since it is black people who are hurt by crack dealers.

If a white person is arrested for selling crack to black people, is it racist to punish him more harshly than a black person selling cocaine to white people?

Spoken as only a person in a position of privilege can speak it.

Hey, listen, my dad was born in Munich in 1945. You really think that my family had it better that black Americans?

Which drug is more socially destructive?

Would it be right to punish pot and crack dealers equally?

Might there be a compelling public interest to fight against crack more vehemently than against drugs which are less destructive?

If a law is reasonable by punishing dealers of more destructive drugs more harshly than dealers of less destructive drugs, and a certain sort of people incidentally are more likely to use the more rather than the less destructive drug, how is racism or unfairness involved or a motive?

If nothing else, the fact that black people are injured more by crack abuse than by cocaine abuse should lead to the conclusion that harsher penalties for crack dealers are beneficial to black people, since it is black people who are hurt by crack dealers.

If a white person is arrested for selling crack to black people, is it racist to punish him more harshly than a black person selling cocaine to white people?

Crack and powder cocaine are the same drug; they are just produced and used differently. In fact crack cocaine has less cocaine per gram than powder cocaine does. Punishing someone differently for the same basic drug is not right. The law doesn't stop users, it just creates more black, jailed, institutionalised criminals. The US Sentencing Committee has suggested several times to congress that they be made legal and they haven't, but it looks like it may be close.

Something else interesting:
Although mandatory minimum sentencing was intended to target high-level drug traffickers, members of organized crime rings and the violence associated with the crack cocaine market, the USSC’s 2002 report found that 73% of crack cocaine defendants had low-level involvement in drug activity and only 0.5% were importers or high-level suppliers.
link (http://www.drugpolicy.org/library/factsheets/raceandthedr/crack_cocaine.cfm)

Also, I specifically said that the motive wasn't racist but the law has ultimately become in effect racist (why I used commas).

Spoken as only a person in a position of privilege can speak it.

Unfair, Neesika. He's saying no more than the truth.

I didn't grow up in a slum, but I did grow up poor. But I've seen poverty that makes the worst ghettoes in the Western World look frankly paradaisical.

I've also seen people go from literally nothing, not even owning the clothes they were wearing, to a reasonable standard of living - without breaking laws or harming anyone.

Somebody grew up without? Poor baby. Not in any way, ever, does that justify being a criminal.

That's fascinating! Tell me more!
Admit that you were wrong, suck it up, and move on. :D

You didn't even watch the video did you?

They also manage to conveniently ignore the end of his sentence, where he says better education is what's needed to prevent this happening. In other words, presenting a problem then giving a solution.

Funny how Fox managed to overlook that.

Pardon, me, Fox, but I think your bias is showing.
*hands some tape to fix hem*

We must devote our national industrial and intellectual might to devising alternative sources of diversity that to not rely on Black People.

Peak Black People is COMING!!


But doesnt this then free up resources to start working on the illegal Mexicans next? *** Ducks and runs away***

America needs more black people? Try Africa, they still have plenty.

They also manage to conveniently ignore the end of his sentence, where he says better education is what's needed to prevent this happening. In other words, presenting a problem then giving a solution.


That's not a solution. That's the same old tired cure all.

America needs more black people? Try Africa, they still have plenty.

and we still have ships that can carry a lot of black people! :p

Seriously though, part of the problem with black people living in inner cities slums, turning to crime and drugs to get by is several fold. 1. They pretty much think that getting an education, and doing well in school is "white" and that if you are a black student who is doing well in school, then you aren't really 'black' and a sell out etc. I have seen it happen many times in my High School. A few blacks take their education seriously (mainly because they want to get out of the slums) and the other blacks (IE idiots) alienate them because they're acting 'white'. Someone earlier touch on no positive male role model for today's black and honestly that is true. I mean how many kids who grow up in inner cities slum know their father? Now how many of those fathers are not drug addicts/alcoholic/drug dealers themselves? What we need is more black men like Colin Powell, Bill Cosby, Ray (the blind piano player), Denzel Washington, and less black men like the rappers who glorify drug and gang culture.

The kids need a stable home, and once they have a stable home, then they can concentrate on their school work, and pass their courses and go on to college. Then after they get a good job, they can move out of the slums.

However, for this to happen, people have to start taking responsibility. Mothers and Fathers, community leaders, the role models that these black children and teenagers do look up to need to start taking their responsibility as leaders and role models seriously, and no, sorry but this isn't something that Gov. Co. can fix.

*puts on flame suit*

So what he's saying is that if the only means to curbing inner city violence is to incarcerate and build prisons, the end result will be that the population will be in prison or dead? Hmm... Shocking, I must say.

I notice that they didn't bother examining his actual response either.


Also, Fox News is being fun:

Fair and balanced.

*nods*

Admit that you were wrong, suck it up, and move on. :D

You didn't even watch the video did you?

Fascinating! You must have to be pretty smart to figure all this stuff out, huh?

Tell us more!

Crack and powder cocaine are the same drug; they are just produced and used differently. In fact crack cocaine has less cocaine per gram than powder cocaine does. Punishing someone differently for the same basic drug is not right. The law doesn't stop users, it just creates more black, jailed, institutionalised criminals. The US Sentencing Committee has suggested several times to congress that they be made legal and they haven't, but it looks like it may be close.

Something else interesting:

link (http://www.drugpolicy.org/library/factsheets/raceandthedr/crack_cocaine.cfm)

Also, I specifically said that the motive wasn't racist but the law has ultimately become in effect racist (why I used commas).

Part A merely avoids answering the question that I asked, which was:


"Which drug is more socially destructive?

Would it be right to punish pot and crack dealers equally?

Might there be a compelling public interest to fight against crack more vehemently than against drugs which are less destructive?

If a law is reasonable by punishing dealers of more destructive drugs more harshly than dealers of less destructive drugs, and a certain sort of people incidentally are more likely to use the more rather than the less destructive drug, how is racism or unfairness involved or a motive?

If nothing else, the fact that black people are injured more by crack abuse than by cocaine abuse should lead to the conclusion that harsher penalties for crack dealers are beneficial to black people, since it is black people who are hurt by crack dealers.

If a white person is arrested for selling crack to black people, is it racist to punish him more harshly than a black person selling cocaine to white people?"

Part B

How can something be racist without a racist motive? It is incidental that black people tend to use crack more than ordinary cocaine. A racist law would be a law that targeted black people, which this law doesn't.

There is nothing about black people that makes them innately more interested in crack than cocaine, and this law does not discriminate between black and white defendants, and crack cocaine does not have some magical ability to make itself more addictive to blacks than whites.

Fascinating! You must have to be pretty smart to figure all this stuff out, huh?

Tell us more!
It would appear that telling you more would not do anything to help you.

It would appear that telling you more would not do anything to help you.

Thats remarkable!

What else should we know?

Thats remarkable!

What else should we know?

*sniff sniff*

Smells like a computer program to me it does.

*sniff sniff*

Smells like a computer program to me it does.
Yup, one with a few bugs in it. :D

In all seriousness, the mandatory sentencing minimums in America are unfair and need to be changed.

They're often too leinent, especially when a drunk driver gets something like a year or two for what they consider vehicular manslaughter although, in all respects, it should be homicide.

Part A merely avoids answering the question that I asked, which was:

"Which drug is more socially destructive?

Would it be right to punish pot and crack dealers equally?
Except we're not talking about two different drugs. We're talking about two drugs which are chemically identical.
Answer me this:
Which is more socially destructive: Selling 5 grams of crack or 495 grams of cocaine?

If nothing else, the fact that black people are injured more by crack abuse than by cocaine abuse should lead to the conclusion that harsher penalties for crack dealers are beneficial to black people, since it is black people who are hurt by crack dealers.
Ohhh...the poor widdul blackman is getting hurt! We - the big benevolent Whiteman - need to look after and care for them because they're incapable of doing it themselves.
And the best way to 'help' them is to give them longer prison sentences. Because, you see, that's helping them since drugs are more 'socially destructive' to black people than it is to white.
They may whine and bitch about it, but eventually they'll realise that we're doing this for their own good and they'll thank us for it.

If a white person is arrested for selling crack to black people, is it racist to punish him more harshly than a black person selling cocaine to white people?"

Answer me this:
If a white man is arrested selling 495 grams of cocaine to black people, is it racist to punish him far less severely than a black man caught selling 5 grams of crack to black people?

How can something be racist without a racist motive? It is incidental that black people tend to use crack more than ordinary cocaine. A racist law would be a law that targeted black people, which this law doesn't.

There is nothing about black people that makes them innately more interested in crack than cocaine, and this law does not discriminate between black and white defendants, and crack cocaine does not have some magical ability to make itself more addictive to blacks than whites.
Lots of things can be racist without necessarily a racist motive. The fact you don't appear to grasp that concept speaks volumes about your beliefs and understandings.

For example: Look at the American football team the Washington Redskins. Was their intention, when coming up with that name and logo, to denigrate and insult Native Americans?
Of course not (they changed their name to the Redskins to honour their coach who was a Native American way back in the 20's).
However, considering the derogatory history of their name many Native Americans do feel insulted by it and do consider it racist.
Their mascot certainly is:
http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/72014697.jpg
To put in another way, would you (or indeed the rest of the US) find it acceptable if a team called themselves the 'Blackskins' and had as their mascot a pickanniny or golliwog?

You Americans need to start switching to renewable sources of working class labour, and forget the fossil working class that is Black America. Switch to Mexicans and prevent global warming.

Sigging this.