NationStates Jolt Archive


40% of Americans lived under a Bush or Clinton only

Sel Appa
28-09-2007, 23:45
Yes, an estimated 116 million Americans have had the opportunity to live under one of two political dynasties that could (hopefully not) expand deep into the 2010s. Although Jeb Bush has not expressed interest in running for president, he may do so at the next election. If Hillary wins this won (:headbang:), well it's all very interesting. America has had several political dynasties: Adamses, Roosevelts, Kennedys...Hopefully, Americans will express their tire of dynasties and vote in a newbi like Obama or...Ron Paul.

Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070928/ap_on_el_pr/bush_clinton_fatigue)

WASHINGTON - Forty percent of Americans have never lived when there wasn't a Bush or a Clinton in the White House. Anyone got a problem with that?

With Hillary Rodham Clinton hoping to tack another four or eight "Clinton" years on to the Bush-Clinton-Bush presidential pattern that already has held sway for two decades, talk of Bush-Clinton fatigue is increasingly cropping up in the national political debate.

The dominance of the two families in U.S. presidential politics is unprecedented. (The closest comparisons are the father-son presidencies of John Adams and John Quincy Adams, whose single terms were separated by 24 years, and the presidencies of fifth cousins Theodore Roosevelt and Franklin Roosevelt, whose collective 20 years as president were separated by a quarter-century.)

"We now have a younger generation and middle-age generation who are going to think about national politics through the Bush-Clinton prism," said Princeton University political historian Julian Zelizer, 37, whose first chance to vote for president was 1988, the year the first President Bush was elected. And as for the question of fatigue, Zelizer added: "It's not just that we've heard their names a lot, but we've had a lot of problems with their names."

And now, if Hillary Clinton were to be elected and re-elected, the nation could go 28 years in a row with the same two families governing the country. Add the elder Bush's terms as vice president, and that would be 36 years straight with a Bush or Clinton in the White House.

Already, for 116 million Americans, there has never been a time when there wasn't a Bush or Clinton in the White House, either as president or vice president.

Does a nation of 303 million people really have only two families qualified to run the show?

David Gergen, director of Harvard University's Center for Public Leadership and an adviser to presidents Nixon, Ford, Reagan and Clinton, said there does seem to be concern about the possibility of giving "the two dynasties" another four or eight years.

"I think we would be fundamentally healthier if we broadened the zone of candidates who could make it to the top," he said.

Historically, politics has been open to newcomers who rise up to reflect the grass-roots sentiment of the country, Gergen said.

That's still possible, he said, "but it's harder than it used to be, especially because it's so hard to raise money" for expensive national campaigns.

The Clintons and Bushes, he said, have built up strong "brand" recognition for their names — just as the Kennedys did in an age of promise cut short by assassination — making it harder for newcomers to compete.

But sometimes, people just want to try something new.

An NBC/Wall Street Journal poll taken over the summer found that fully one-quarter of all Americans said that the prospect of having at least 24 straight years of a President Clinton or Bush would be a consideration in their vote for president in 2008.

Even among Democrats, 17 percent said it would be a consideration. That compared with a third of all Republicans.

The nation has changed dramatically since the first Bush claimed the Oval Office in 1988: Then, the Soviet Union was exploring the notion of perestroika, a public Internet was a promise waiting to be fulfilled, gasoline cost about $1 a gallon and Hillary Clinton was an associate still hoping to make partner at the Rose Law Firm in Little Rock, Ark.

Clinton, now a two-term senator at age 59, has been asked about the long-standing Bush-Clinton grip on the Oval Office at two Democratic debates, and has a two-part response. She dumps on the Bush part of the historical equation and praises the Clinton component.

Asked in the CNN/YouTube debate in July whether adding another President Clinton to the Bush-Clinton-Bush sequence would bring about real change, Clinton had a ready comeback.

"Well, I think it is a problem that Bush was elected in 2000," she offered. "I actually thought somebody else was elected in that election."

When the question came up again in this week's debate in New Hampshire, she told the audience, "I thought Bill was a pretty good president."

She hastened to add that she's running on her own, and "I'm going to the people on my own."

Gergen said any fatigue factor Clinton faces is "overwhelmed by the positive nostalgia for Bill Clinton among Democrats."

The thought is seconded by Todd Gitlin, a professor at Columbia University's School of Journalism who has written a new book about national politics. He said that while some people are bothered by the dominance of the two families, "right now there is one massive fatigue in America and that is with George Bush. No other fatigue comes close."

But even if the issue is not a problem for Clinton, Gitlin said: "Is it a problem in some large sense that we seem to be alternating dynasties? Yes, I think democracy should be more expansive."

How long could this dynastic dynamic play itself out?

"Keep an eye on their children," Gergen quips.

And, there's always presidential brother Jeb Bush, the former governor of Florida. His oldest son, George P. Bush, is considered likely to carry the family's political tradition into the next generation.

A Bush-Bush ticket for 2012? By George!
New Limacon
28-09-2007, 23:53
Yes, an estimated 116 million Americans have had the opportunity to live under one of two political dynasties that could (hopefully not) expand deep into the 2010s. Although Jeb Bush has not expressed interest in running for president, he may do so at the next election. If Hillary wins this won (:headbang:), well it's all very interesting. America has had several political dynasties: Adamses, Roosevelts, Kennedys...Hopefully, Americans will express their tire of dynasties and vote in a newbi like Obama or...Ron Paul.

Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070928/ap_on_el_pr/bush_clinton_fatigue)

Most of these are not dynasties. The Roosevelts were cousins separated by about thirty years; same with the Adams. The Bushes were closer, but their policy is different enough to suggest that the current president is not an extenuation of his father. The only one kind of a dynasty would be the Kennedys, when the President and Attorney General were brothers (and there was a Senator somewhere as well).
The Infinite Dunes
28-09-2007, 23:57
But... that means 40% of Americans are 20 or younger... do Americans all die horrifically early or something? :confused:
New Limacon
29-09-2007, 00:00
But... that means 40% of Americans are 20 or younger... do Americans all die horrifically early or something? :confused:

President or/ vice-president. That would mean everyone born after January 1981.
Actually, that's still only twenty-six, at most. Maybe those cheap meds in Canada are drawing away our seniors.
Neu Leonstein
29-09-2007, 00:13
Yeah, these dynasties are pretty illuminating when it comes to the American format of democracy. What counts is the combination of a recognisable name and the support of a network of strategists and advisors that join a clan and tend to stay there.

I mean, I'd never even heard of Mike Gravel, and he's by far the best candidate this election race has produced. But does he get the airtime or attention he deserves? Obviously not.

http://www.economist.com/world/na/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9149798
The royalty trap
May 10th 2007

Americans have a dangerous fondness for monarchy
New Manvir
29-09-2007, 00:30
Bush/Clinton 08

:p
The Abe Froman
29-09-2007, 00:37
President or/ vice-president. That would mean everyone born after January 1981.
Actually, that's still only twenty-six, at most. Maybe those cheap meds in Canada are drawing away our seniors.

We're counting Bush Sr. as a VP.:confused:
The Infinite Dunes
29-09-2007, 00:40
We're counting Bush Sr. as a VP.:confused:Under Reagan.
The Abe Froman
29-09-2007, 00:55
Under Reagan.

I meant are we counting that as part of the 'dynasty.'
James_xenoland
29-09-2007, 01:08
Bush/Clinton 08

:p
Bad New Manvir! That's nothing to joke about...
Greater Trostia
29-09-2007, 01:19
The Bushes were closer, but their policy is different enough to suggest that the current president is not an extenuation of his father.

The reigning political leader was succeeded by his son. That's dynastic, it doesn't matter how different the policies allegedly are.
Glorious Alpha Complex
29-09-2007, 01:51
I meant are we counting that as part of the 'dynasty.'

Honestly, it's really a kindof transparent tactic to inflate the statistic.
Layarteb
29-09-2007, 02:16
For the love of God the prospect of another 4 years or worse, 8, of the damn Clintons is enough. NO MORE CLINTON/BUSH moronic dynasty. NEW BLOOD!
Moorington
29-09-2007, 03:41
Nope, no new blood.

I want Paul blood.
[NS]Click Stand
29-09-2007, 03:49
Nope, no new blood.

I want Paul blood.

that sounds more like a threat.
Smunkeeville
29-09-2007, 03:52
The first 8 years of my life were Regan, then there was Bush, then Clinton, then Bush, then......well, I don't know who is next, but hopefully someone who is not named Clinton.
Vetalia
29-09-2007, 03:55
I was born in 1988, so I caught the last year of the Reagan administration, but other than that it's been 100% Bush and Clinton
Moorington
29-09-2007, 03:55
Click Stand;13090739']that sounds more like a threat.

It's only a threat to the fat cat politicans who think everyone loves to be taxed.
Sel Appa
29-09-2007, 04:06
It's only a threat to the fat cat politicans who think everyone loves to be taxed.

Everyone should like taxes. Americans have been indoctrinated for the past 250 years that taxes are bad.
Khadgar
29-09-2007, 04:08
Jesus, 116 million people born in the last two decades? That's scary.
Lame Bums
29-09-2007, 04:12
Hillary (Hitlery?) until 2016, then, let's say, Jeb Bush until 2024...and how old will Chelsea Clinton be then? 44? Another Clinton. Then one of the Bush twins... :headbang:
Todsboro
29-09-2007, 04:16
I don't believe the stats.

Less than 28% of the nation's populace is less than 20 years old (source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Miscellaneous_statistics)). That syncs up with the end of the Reagan administration.

They may mean that 40% of Americans have only had the opportunity to vote in an election that included either a Clinton or a Bush. But that's not the same thing as what the headline (or the article, for that matter) is saying.

As someone who was born in the Ford administration (but who still considers himself to be rather young), I simply don't believe the article as it's presented.

Then again, I don't believe any article as it's presented...
Khadgar
29-09-2007, 04:18
Hillary (Hitlery?) until 2016, then, let's say, Jeb Bush until 2024...and how old will Chelsea Clinton be then? 44? Another Clinton. Then one of the Bush twins... :headbang:

GODWIN! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law)THREAD OVER!


Lame Bums automatically loses.
Kyronea
29-09-2007, 04:28
GODWIN! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law)THREAD OVER!


Lame Bums automatically loses.

Especially since the comparison of Clinton to Hitler is laughable at best. Why people constantly try to compare current political figures to extremely well known historical political figures rather than someone lesser known but much closer and correct I will never understand...
LEFTHANDEDSUPREMACIST
29-09-2007, 05:41
Everyone should like taxes. Americans have been indoctrinated for the past 250 years that taxes are bad.Income taxes are bad.
The Nazz
29-09-2007, 06:17
Yeah, these dynasties are pretty illuminating when it comes to the American format of democracy. What counts is the combination of a recognisable name and the support of a network of strategists and advisors that join a clan and tend to stay there.

I mean, I'd never even heard of Mike Gravel, and he's by far the best candidate this election race has produced. But does he get the airtime or attention he deserves? Obviously not.

http://www.economist.com/world/na/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9149798

Ummm...Gravel is the equivalent of Grandpa Simpson.
The Nazz
29-09-2007, 06:19
Income taxes are bad.

Why?
LEFTHANDEDSUPREMACIST
29-09-2007, 06:33
Why?Because I do not like funding the American war machine.
The South Islands
29-09-2007, 06:37
I never liked democracy anyway.

Really.
The Infinite Dunes
29-09-2007, 11:16
I meant are we counting that as part of the 'dynasty.'Sorry, whoops. Um.. he probably shouldn't be counted. Wasn't the position VP not all that important until Cheney? More like added security in case the president gets himself killed.
Sel Appa
29-09-2007, 17:41
Income taxes are bad.

Income taxes are good. It's the only truly "fair" tax.
LEFTHANDEDSUPREMACIST
29-09-2007, 18:41
Income taxes are good. It's the only truly "fair" tax.Yes its fair how corporations can get write offs for $.39 for every mile they drive. I wish the government would pay me $.39 for every mile I drive. Income tax is written by the rich for the rich. I would rather pay my state taxes that go to my roads and schools instead of paying for America's bullshit war on drugs, terrorism and social security that will be sucked away by the time I am old enough to ever use it.
Sel Appa
30-09-2007, 01:04
Yes its fair how corporations can get write offs for $.39 for every mile they drive. I wish the government would pay me $.39 for every mile I drive. Income tax is written by the rich for the rich. I would rather pay my state taxes that go to my roads and schools instead of paying for America's bullshit war on drugs, terrorism and social security that will be sucked away by the time I am old enough to ever use it.

Yes, we do need to get rid of corporate writeoffs and stuff and force them not to raise prices just because it affects their $300 million salary.
Neu Leonstein
30-09-2007, 01:17
Ummm...Gravel is the equivalent of Grandpa Simpson.
Fair Tax? Check.
Against Death Penalty? Check.
Against War? Check.
Pro Choice? Check.
Socialised Healthcare? Check.
Keep government out of social security money? Check.
Carbon Tax? Check.
Sponsoring dialogue between Israel and Hamas et al? Check.
Categorical "no" to torture? Check.
Pro Gay Marriage? Check.
De-criminalised Drugs? Check.
Pro Stem Cell Research? Check.
Pro Immigrant? Check.
Firearm licensing? Check.
Pro Kyoto? Check.

The only thing questionable about his views is that apparently he thinks NAFTA was a catastrophe for low-skilled workers in the US, which seems to hint that he doesn't understand the free trade argument, and that he wants to restrict access to online gambling. Other than that, I don't see how he can be faulted.
JuNii
30-09-2007, 01:21
Hillary (Hitlery?) until 2016, then, let's say, Jeb Bush until 2024...and how old will Chelsea Clinton be then? 44? Another Clinton. Then one of the Bush twins... :headbang:

or worse...
a Clinton/Bush ticket!
Luporum
30-09-2007, 01:29
I want Clinton to get elected just so in the future people will look back and see...

Bush - Clinton - Bush - Clinton - Bush - Clinton

Yes Jeb and Chelsea get elected in the future.
Kleomenes
30-09-2007, 01:54
I think that change for the sake of change is wrong. If Hillary was the best candidate, then she should win the election, no matter what her last name is. To vote against her for the simple reason that she is a Clinton defeats the purpose of voting, which is to select the person you believe will do the best job.
Lame Bums
30-09-2007, 02:05
GODWIN! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law)THREAD OVER!


Lame Bums automatically loses.

The what? I was just taking a jab at Hillary.