NationStates Jolt Archive

That's right, you heard me. Star Trek is a communist propaganda tool, pure and simple. Look at the idealistic world Comrade Roddenberry created: if you can't tell he's a dirty commie just by that, then you are willfully blind.

The people of the Star Trek world have no money, no property, and few possessions. They live completely ascetic existences, yet they are all so happy. It's obvious that Comrade Roddenberry is trying to deceive us with his Marxist propaganda. Everyone knows that no one would ever agree to such a lifestyle.

And worst of all, there is no private enterprise! This is insufferable. So what if high technology largely makes markets obsolete, it is the worst denial of freedom to not have property. Everyone knows that private property is intrinsic to human nature. Only a meritorious few are motivated enough to put property to good use. Of course, Comrade Roddenberry wants you all to just ignore the horrible truth of communism: it doesn't work. He would set loose those greedy workers, all of them demanding more then their fair share.

Even worse then the totally biased depiction of the Federation is the horrible depiction of the Federation's foil: the Ferengi. These people show the true entrepreneurial spririt, and what do they get for it? They are universally condemned and Comrade Roddenberry only shows us his twisted view of what's bad about it. The Ferengi covet only wealth, and all that glitter is gold--pressed latinum, that is. But don't you see, as eminent Russian-American philosopher Ayn Rand argued, acting in your own naked self-interest is a good thing. Even if you harm everyone else around you, it's there fault for not being enterprising enough.

So, remember how truly diabolical Star Trek is. It is eminently unAmerican, and serves only to corrupt the youth with its devious communist propaganda about peace, happiness and sharing. Show you're true colors, Captain Che Picard

http://content.ytmnd.com/content/6/f/4/6f41d625d1b01e8ad1c196d34f1fbd9e.jpg

That's right, you heard me. Star Trek is a communist propaganda tool, pure and simple. Look at the idealistic world Comrade Roddenberry created: if you can't tell he's a dirty commie just by that, then you are willfully blind.


from:
Sojuz nerushimyj respublikh svobodnikh...

to:
Zemlji nerushimaja edinnaja Federacija...

CTAP TPEK ! XYPA ! XYPA ! XYPA !
(read: Star Trjèk! Hurà! Hurà! Hurà!)

Yes, the Federation cares for people, both humans and non-humans; the Federal military (both crew and officers) act eroically and selflessy, use their brain, protect other cultures, pursue peace and knowledge instead of exploitation and personal profit.

As the OP clearly stated, only a Communist society would do that.
From the OP's tone ("dirty communist" ect), the OPer clearly is no communist.

Hence, I'd call this an objective proof of the true meaning of communism: building a better society, based on peace, cooperation, knowledge, mutual respect. Even anti-commies admit that.

(n00b!)

*blinks* Nan da HELL???

Ok... that makes NO sense, but whatever floats your boat...

Er... it should be noted however that the current understanding of the Ferengi as the ultimate capitalistic culture came from Deep Space Nine, which was developed after Roddenberry's death, so your the point you are trying to make doesn't.

I find it funny that programmes like Charmed and CSI Miami seem to be being used as a way to drum up support for the Patriot Act.

its one of the reasons i love it so much ;)
it gives me hope for the future.


plus, private enterprise is allowed. its just not shown much in Star Fleet, as the private enterprise is undertaken by individuals, and Star Fleet is a military organisation.

Er... it should be noted however that the current understanding of the Ferengi as the ultimate capitalistic culture came from Deep Space Nine, which was developed after Roddenberry's death, so your the point you are trying to make doesn't.

Exactly. The Ferengi only appeared in, what, 2 or 3 episodes of Next Generation?

That's right, you heard me. Star Trek is a communist propaganda tool, pure and simple. Look at the idealistic world Comrade Roddenberry created: if you can't tell he's a dirty commie just by that, then you are willfully blind.

First, when watching a Star Trek episode, consider that in most of them you are only seeing a small window of Federation society. That window is usually from the standpoint of Star Fleet, and unless dealing with an alien race, there is little need for money.

The people of the Star Trek world have no money, no property, and few possessions. They live completely ascetic existences, yet they are all so happy. It's obvious that Comrade Roddenberry is trying to deceive us with his Marxist propaganda. Everyone knows that no one would ever agree to such a lifestyle.

I beg to differ with you. Doesn't Kirk receive a fine pair of eyeglasses from Bones? Doesn't Picard keep a broad library of "ancient" books? Doesn't Data keep several possessions when it looks as though he will be reassigned to a starbase to be disassembled? Doesn't Picard's brother own and operate a large vineyard in France? And hasn't that vineyard been in the family for centuries? And what about Sisko's father, doesn't he own and operate a resturaunt in New Orleans? Clearly, you are confused, or you simply never bother watching any of the episodes.

And worst of all, there is no private enterprise!

Since I have already proven that private citizens own businesses, one can only conclude that those businesses can grow larger. But wait, in Enterprise doesn't a large corporation take over the Virteron Array on Mars and threaten to destroy Star Fleet Command, unless all aliens leave Earth? Again, you are sadly mistaken on this count.

This is insufferable. So what if high technology largely makes markets obsolete, it is the worst denial of freedom to not have property.

Again you are only seeing a small window of life as a citizen of the Federation. While there are areas where money is not necessary, and there is technology that can create anything you want, there is no mention of where the energy comes from to do that and since we don't see where that energy comes from you have to conclude that you pay for it somehow. How one pays for it, is unknown, after all no show has ever given us a complete picture of life as a citizen of the Federation.

It does explain the red shirts.

First, when watching a Star Trek episode, consider that in most of them you are only seeing a small window of Federation society.

Two things:
1.This could mean that the best part of the Federation (that is, the Enterprise!) are commies... neh? ;)
2.Have mercy of the p00r n00b... :D

OMG! HEVILY-ARMD KOMMIEZ FROM TEH SPACE!

Ah, but the reason for the economic system of star trek is that scarcity has been eliminated, for all intents and purposes, with the development of replicator technology. Thus removing the primary reason for the existence of economic systems to allocate goods amongst individuals.

That's right, you heard me. Star Trek is a communist propaganda tool, pure and simple.


You seem to be under the impression that like you are being:
a) novel
b) controversial
however, you are neither.

The people of the Star Trek world have no money, no property, and few possessions. They live completely ascetic existences, yet they are all so happy. It's obvious that Comrade Roddenberry is trying to deceive us with his Marxist propaganda. Everyone knows that no one would ever agree to such a lifestyle.

Yet they do, in centuries old communities.

Everyone knows that private property is intrinsic to human nature.

They do?

Better tell those south sea islanders!

You seem to be fond of "any fule noes."

as eminent Russian-American philosopher Ayn Rand argued

You are Linus and Lucy and I claim my £5.00 :p

And so are the Smurfs:

http://www.iamlost.com/features/smurfs/archive.shtml

epic fail.

Did linus and lucy get his account banned or something and force us to endure more nonsense under another name?

He's a 1 post troll.

We're responding....why?

He's a 1 post troll.

We're responding....why?

It's sort of fun for the first 30 minutes.

We're responding....why?
Perhaps Dr. Pavlov might be able to answer.

epic fail.

Did linus and lucy get his account banned or something and force us to endure more nonsense under another name?

Maybe he wrote (or copied and pasted, phrase is used so much I'm not sure) "as eminent Russian-American philosopher Ayn Rand argued" one too many times and accidently summoned the Dark Lord who smote him for blasphemy ;)

:p

Didn't they make the Borg to show that they were anti-communist and provide a really cool and scary new threat? The Borg are the very definition of communism; a collectivist society.

Also, not everyone in Trek is a member of the Federation and there still seems to be currency used at starbases as late as ST3 and then there was latinum on DS9, a Federation station (boldly spinning where no station has spun before!). Is there a lot of focus on charity in Trek? Yes, but they're also quick to stand up for individuality.

I think this Atlas Fountainhead is a puppet troll. I mean the name is kind of a dead giveaway but the message really drives it home.

That's right, you heard me. Star Trek is a communist propaganda tool, pure and simple. Look at the idealistic world Comrade Roddenberry created: if you can't tell he's a dirty commie just by that, then you are willfully blind.

If i'm blind then your deaf, Gene Roddenberry dilberately based Star trek on the Cold War era of the world at the time, however you've got the wrong end of the stick. He verbally and publically stated that the Federation represented the Westerns powers of NATO and the USA while the Klingons represented the USSR. In a bid to try and get to the two sides to realise peace propperly, Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country talks about old rivalries being buried and peace being restored to the quadrant. In RL terms, the end of the cold war and a friendship between the East and the West.

Star Trek is based in a cold war era and puts a sci-fi twist (particularly in Star Trek VI) on the cold war, but it is by no means communist propaganda.

EDIT:

An the Next generation came about when communism was almost dead and buried. No body cares about commies by this time because democracy is better, Star Trek by this time is just one brilliant sci-fi show with few political morales dedicated to real life.

N00bs like this one should be given a red shirt and beamed down onto hostile planets...

Maybe he wrote (or copied and pasted, phrase is used so much I'm not sure) "as eminent Russian-American philosopher Ayn Rand argued" one too many times and accidently summoned the Dark Lord who smote him for blasphemy ;)

:p

Incorrect (like my Linus and Lucy impression?) just posted in another thread.

Incorrect (like my Linus and Lucy impression?) just posted in another thread.

Sorry, dense at the moment, are you saying you are Atlas Fountainhead?


Because then I'll feel really foolish :(


(though yes, it was a good impression :))

I think this Atlas Fountainhead is a puppet troll. I mean the name is kind of a dead giveaway but the message really drives it home.

actually I think you're right. This one said "ayn rand argued". We all know the real Linus and Lucy would never simply say Ayn Rand argued. Given his demonstrated willingness to dig up the old broad and have a go with the corpse, he'd never say anything Ayn Rand said was anything less than pure gosple

Sorry, dense at the moment, are you saying you are Atlas Fountainhead?


Because then I'll feel really foolish :(


(though yes, it was a good impression :))

No, was saying that Linus is posting as Linus on another thread. The just telling someone they were incorrect was the impression...

No, was saying that Linus is posting as Linus on another thread.

Damn, I'm much denser then I thought.



Randroids building randroids. It's worse then we thought

I'm ashamed of you all. Falling for such obvious copypasta.

Not only do they have property (Picard's flute, books; Riker's Risa artifacts and trombone; Data's paints/canvases and cat, etc.), but individuality in amongst a collective will were crucial to the whole series. You think CAPTAIN KRIK was a COMMIE?!? I must laugh to keep from exploding! Kirk was as USA/"cowboy" as you could GET! Roddemberry pitched the original Star Trek as Wagon Train in space -- you don't GET any less Communist than the wild west.

The OP is more than epic fail, it's like...Beowulf or Iliad-level fail.

I'm ashamed of you all. Falling for such obvious copypasta.

Which you fell for by the associative property. A sort of "contact low" if you will.

That's right, you heard me. Star Trek is a communist propaganda tool, pure and simple. Look at the idealistic world Comrade Roddenberry created: if you can't tell he's a dirty commie just by that, then you are willfully blind.


Beam me up Scotty, there is no intelligent life on this planet.

Oh. He/she/person-who-is-choosing-to-be-gender-categorization-defiant is being a troll? I had thought it was sarcasm...
Yes, I did just use person-who-is-choosing-to-be-gender-categorization-defiant as a pronoun.
Although I'd point out communalism to argue against the point that private ownership is part of human nature...

That's right, you heard me. Star Trek is a communist propaganda tool, pure and simple. Look at the idealistic world Comrade Roddenberry created: if you can't tell he's a dirty commie just by that, then you are willfully blind.[snip]

I've already had a discussion about this with others. Including Mike Wong.


The people of the Star Trek world have no money, no property, and few possessions. They live completely ascetic existences, yet they are all so happy. It's obvious that Comrade Roddenberry is trying to deceive us with his Marxist propaganda. Everyone knows that no one would ever agree to such a lifestyle.

No money? They have federation credits. But since the invention of the Pattern Replicators, there is little need for the accumulation of material things that defines our present.

No property? Um, The Picard vinyards? Sisko's dad's Resturant?

One of the largest problems with those attempting to quantify the UFP is the fact that almost all of our vision of UFP culture is exclusively the lifestyles of those serving in Starfleet aboard Starfleet installations and vessels. They live relatively ascetically, they share alot of the same stuff, and all this would be the same vision of things if you were to analyze the lifestyles of ANYONE operating in a military or defensive unit... Which is what Starfleet is for the federation and exploratory and MILITARY force.

Some of our views OUTSIDE of starfleet (the little we've seen) includes
1. Scotty buying a boat.
2. People buying passage for interstellar travel.
3. People buying houses on colony worlds.

etc.

While I'm most certain that the UFP does have some socialist elements, and that capitalism is pretty much non-existent, that is of no surprise, considering that you can ask a patter replicator for anything that you can think of for your entertainment or food needs.

If anything, Roddenberry's creation demonstrates how unreasonable communism is by presenting it (ST:TNG does it best) in the only circumstances in which it works. Infinite resources.

The ships seem to have no shortage of energy, and that energy can manufacture goods (using replicators). So, sure, no one needs money because there's no scarcity. At all.

You wouldn't happen to be a fan of one Senator McCarthy?

If anything, Roddenberry's creation demonstrates how unreasonable communism is by presenting it (ST:TNG does it best) in the only circumstances in which it works. Infinite resources.

The ships seem to have no shortage of energy, and that energy can manufacture goods (using replicators). So, sure, no one needs money because there's no scarcity. At all.

Well, it's not that resources are infinite, they are not. But that there are more than enough resources to sustain the people... At that point, "free enterprise" becomes something one does for pleasure rather than to accumulate mere possessions.... Which is exactly what life in the UFP is by TNG and later times, a society populated by people who need nothing but to pursue their own betterment. Effectively the UFP is about as close to Utopia as one could get. (Though things are not absolutely perfect, as it is well demonstrated that there are still elements which exist in corruption.)

Ah, but the reason for the economic system of star trek is that scarcity has been eliminated, for all intents and purposes, with the development of replicator technology. Thus removing the primary reason for the existence of economic systems to allocate goods amongst individuals.

And that's a tremendously exciting possibility. What if scarcity is removed from the economic equation? How will we trade? Ideas, concepts, designs, experiences? What will be the currency? Energy? How will it affect the time we spend chasing satisfactors?

There is at least one group of people working towards this technology (http://reprap.org/bin/view/Main/WebHome), and although Star Trek replicators are some way off, simple replication may be a lot closer.

EDIT: I would also be very surprised if we haven't come up with/been pushed to a new economic model in the next 300 years.

Ah, but the reason for the economic system of star trek is that scarcity has been eliminated, for all intents and purposes, with the development of replicator technology. Thus removing the primary reason for the existence of economic systems to allocate goods amongst individuals.

With replicator technology, the only things that would still be of value would be energy and territory-everything else would pop out of the magic box. I'm amazed the Ferengi would deal in anything else, but they were jokes from the beginning and just got less funny as they went on.

With replicator technology, the only things that would still be of value would be energy and territory-everything else would pop out of the magic box. I'm amazed the Ferengi would deal in anything else, but they were jokes from the beginning and just got less funny as they went on.

Actually, I wonder about that. What exactly is replicator technology? I think they need matter in element form as well. I say this because of an episode in ST:TNG where they're stuck in some sort of gravity-formation in space and the only way to get out is a large explosion, so they release a bunch of hydrogen to react with whatever was released by a ship full of psychic beings who had been talking to Dr. Troy during her dreams.
With matter limitations, replicator technology can give people all their basic needs, but not everything they could want. The Ferengi deal in the latter.

Actually, I wonder about that. What exactly is replicator technology? I think they need matter in element form as well. I say this because of an episode in ST:TNG where they're stuck in some sort of gravity-formation in space and the only way to get out is a large explosion, so they release a bunch of hydrogen to react with whatever was released by a ship full of psychic beings who had been talking to Dr. Troy during her dreams.
With matter limitations, replicator technology can give people all their basic needs, but not everything they could want. The Ferengi deal in the latter.

It does use matter in elemental form, basically the system uses these elemental reserves being sourced from holds elsewhere (using systems similar to transporter technology). In addition wastes are "broken down" to assist in replenishing these reserves, making things heavily recycled. Of course any specifics on how the systems work past that are mere conjecture, since none of this technology exists now.

epic fail.

Did linus and lucy get his account banned or something and force us to endure more nonsense under another name?

This is too funny. Okay, I can't take this anymore. I have to spill the beans...

Atlas Fountainhead is my sock puppet. I did this post to try to measure just how bad American political debate is right now, after seeing how many people thought Ruffy was being serious with his thread. Wow. I was trying to be as deliberately sarcastic as I could. I tried to make it plainly obvious. It didn't work. Everyone expected that someone would be that vindictive as to make a thread like this.

So, anyway, NSG, You've Been Punk'd!

Oh. He/she/person-who-is-choosing-to-be-gender-categorization-defiant is being a troll? I had thought it was sarcasm...
Yes, I did just use person-who-is-choosing-to-be-gender-categorization-defiant as a pronoun.
Although I'd point out communalism to argue against the point that private ownership is part of human nature...

It is sarcasm. Read my post above.

This is too funny. Okay, I can't take this anymore. I have to spill the beans...

Atlas Fountainhead is my sock puppet. I did this post to try to measure just how bad American political debate is right now, after seeing how many people thought Ruffy was being serious with his thread. Wow. I was trying to be as deliberately sarcastic as I could. I tried to make it plainly obvious. It didn't work. Everyone expected that someone would be that vindictive as to make a thread like this.

So, anyway, NSG, You've Been Punk'd!

just who do you think youve punked?

your obviously trolling OP that was never followed up with a second post brought up a legitimate topic of (nerdy) converstation. the politics of star trek is has been a hot debate topic since 1966. your clumsy first post doesnt make it any more stupid for anyone to have wanted to discuss it.

It is sarcasm. Read my post above.

w00+! I win! :D

This is too funny. Okay, I can't take this anymore. I have to spill the beans...

Atlas Fountainhead is my sock puppet. I did this post to try to measure just how bad American political debate is right now, after seeing how many people thought Ruffy was being serious with his thread. Wow. I was trying to be as deliberately sarcastic as I could. I tried to make it plainly obvious. It didn't work. Everyone expected that someone would be that vindictive as to make a thread like this.

The problem is, we know Linus and Lucy well enough to believe he would ACTUALLY post this shit. Parody only works if it's JUST outlandish enough to not be real, and we have some pretty fucking outlandish folks around here.

So the point is, while it was a ludicrus proposition, it wasn't such to the point where I would have considered it impossible from some of our resident nut jobs like Linus "all crime deserves the death penalty" and Lucy.

YEAH STAR TREK IS T3H COMMIES!!!!

So is Harry Potter

Much discussion has exposed JK Rowling as an obvious Marxist, attempting to pollute the minds of our youth with Communist propaganda. The "pure-blood" Slytherins represent the aristocracy, who believe that "magic" (i.e. capital) should be in the hands of a privileged elite. The "clever" Ravenclaws represent the bourgeoisie, who collude with the aristocracy in the suppression of the petty-bourgeois Hufflepuffs and the proletarian house-elves. The brave Gryffindors (who wear red Quidditch robes) and Dumbledore's Army represent the Red Army, the true army of the proletariat.

Dumbledore, with his voluminous white beard, obviously stands for Karl Marx, while Harry Potter's glasses and untidy black hair make him identical to Leon Trotsky. Harry's lightning-bolt scar is in reference to the fatal head wound inflicted on Trotsky by Ramón Mercader with an ice pick. Harry survives this attack, just as the Totskyist ideal has survived in Rowling's twisted Commie mind.

My awesome source of awesomeness (http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Harry_Potter_%28Books%29#Marxist_interpretation)

The problem is, we know Linus and Lucy well enough to believe he would ACTUALLY post this shit. Parody only works if it's JUST outlandish enough to not be real, and we have some pretty fucking outlandish folks around here.

So the point is, while it was a ludicrus proposition, it wasn't such to the point where I would have considered it impossible from some of our resident nut jobs like Linus "all crime deserves the death penalty" and Lucy.

I guess I shouldn't have underestimated the power of Linus and Lucy.

I guess I shouldn't have underestimated the power of Linus and Lucy.

also in fairness I skimmed it, and so only got the gist, and missed the subtler aspects. Suffice to say, as I did, that the general thesis of your argument is not something I'd put past him to actually advocate.

That's right, you heard me. Star Trek is a communist propaganda tool, pure and simple. Look at the idealistic world Comrade Roddenberry created: if you can't tell he's a dirty commie just by that, then you are willfully blind.

The people of the Star Trek world have no money, no property, and few possessions. They live completely ascetic existences, yet they are all so happy. It's obvious that Comrade Roddenberry is trying to deceive us with his Marxist propaganda. Everyone knows that no one would ever agree to such a lifestyle.

And worst of all, there is no private enterprise! This is insufferable. So what if high technology largely makes markets obsolete, it is the worst denial of freedom to not have property. Everyone knows that private property is intrinsic to human nature. Only a meritorious few are motivated enough to put property to good use. Of course, Comrade Roddenberry wants you all to just ignore the horrible truth of communism: it doesn't work. He would set loose those greedy workers, all of them demanding more then their fair share.

Even worse then the totally biased depiction of the Federation is the horrible depiction of the Federation's foil: the Ferengi. These people show the true entrepreneurial spririt, and what do they get for it? They are universally condemned and Comrade Roddenberry only shows us his twisted view of what's bad about it. The Ferengi covet only wealth, and all that glitter is gold--pressed latinum, that is. But don't you see, as eminent Russian-American philosopher Ayn Rand argued, acting in your own naked self-interest is a good thing. Even if you harm everyone else around you, it's there fault for not being enterprising enough.

So, remember how truly diabolical Star Trek is. It is eminently unAmerican, and serves only to corrupt the youth with its devious communist propaganda about peace, happiness and sharing. Show you're true colors, Captain Che Picard

http://content.ytmnd.com/content/6/f/4/6f41d625d1b01e8ad1c196d34f1fbd9e.jpg

So you would rather live under a Star Wars empire, huh? Of course that would be fitting for any patriotic American and Bushevik.

And worst of all, there is no private enterprise! This is insufferable. So what if high technology largely makes markets obsolete, it is the worst denial of freedom to not have property. Everyone knows that private property is intrinsic to human nature. Only a meritorious few are motivated enough to put property to good use. Of course, Comrade Roddenberry wants you all to just ignore the horrible truth of communism: it doesn't work. He would set loose those greedy workers, all of them demanding more then their fair share.



http://content.ytmnd.com/content/6/f/4/6f41d625d1b01e8ad1c196d34f1fbd9e.jpg

Harvey Mudd from the first series. You can't more capitalist then him. The Trouble with Tribbles...definately some buying and selling going on there.. I am sure there are other examples.

Harvey Mudd from the first series. You can't more capitalist then him. The Trouble with Tribbles...definately some buying and selling going on there.. I am sure there are other examples.

in that stupid episode where the seemingly fairly primitive people end up preventing war between the klingons and the federation spock introduces himself as a trader of <something and something>.

but seems to have been before earth settled into a true communist paradise where no money is needed and everyone is self-actualized.

Hence, I'd call this an objective proof of the true meaning of communism: building a better society, based on peace, cooperation, knowledge, mutual respect. Even anti-commies admit that.


Of course. Idealistically speaking, Communism is the best form of government. Practically speaking, people are selfish and Communism assumes people care about each other. Ergo it's flawed.

Hurray for Capitalism, the government that rightly assumes people are selfish!

Exactly. The Ferengi only appeared in, what, 2 or 3 episodes of Next Generation?

Yes, but their nature was very well expressed in those episodes.

First, when watching a Star Trek episode, consider that in most of them you are only seeing a small window of Federation society. That window is usually from the standpoint of Star Fleet, and unless dealing with an alien race, there is little need for money.



I beg to differ with you. Doesn't Kirk receive a fine pair of eyeglasses from Bones? Doesn't Picard keep a broad library of "ancient" books? Doesn't Data keep several possessions when it looks as though he will be reassigned to a starbase to be disassembled? Doesn't Picard's brother own and operate a large vineyard in France? And hasn't that vineyard been in the family for centuries? And what about Sisko's father, doesn't he own and operate a resturaunt in New Orleans? Clearly, you are confused, or you simply never bother watching any of the episodes.



Since I have already proven that private citizens own businesses, one can only conclude that those businesses can grow larger. But wait, in Enterprise doesn't a large corporation take over the Virteron Array on Mars and threaten to destroy Star Fleet Command, unless all aliens leave Earth? Again, you are sadly mistaken on this count.



Again you are only seeing a small window of life as a citizen of the Federation. While there are areas where money is not necessary, and there is technology that can create anything you want, there is no mention of where the energy comes from to do that and since we don't see where that energy comes from you have to conclude that you pay for it somehow. How one pays for it, is unknown, after all no show has ever given us a complete picture of life as a citizen of the Federation.

Picard clearly states in First Contact that money is not used within the Federation, and people work for society's interest.

Businesses are just owned as a form of recreation.

You know, with Mario the conspiracy joke is actually funny.

With Star Trek the egalitarian society that it promotes is just completely in your face. It's like saying that the sky is a communist conspiracy because it turns red at dusk to empathise with communist sentiments.

Yes, but their nature was very well expressed in those episodes.

Hell, if anything, their mercantalist nature was worse in TNG.

Hell, if anything, their mercantalist nature was worse in TNG.

It was deep space nine that came up with anything about the Ferengi besides "if you meet them, they will try to sell you cold vacuum while stealing everything not welded down."

It was deep space nine that came up with anything about the Ferengi besides "if you meet them, they will try to sell you cold vacuum while stealing everything not welded down."

Something being welded down won't stop them.

It was deep space nine that came up with anything about the Ferengi besides "if you meet them, they will try to sell you cold vacuum while stealing everything not welded down."

I believe the "rules of acquisition" are very clearly mentioned in TNG. Also, in the first episode Encounter at Farpoint, the Ferengi are mentioned with a clearly bad reputation, and consequently make their physical debut in the first season as capitalist liars and swindlers, with a libido that's clearly working over-time.

On top of all this-- they are my all-time favorite ST species.

*blinks* Nan da HELL???

Best. Mixed language. Expression. EVER! :D

So you would rather live under a Star Wars empire, huh? Of course that would be fitting for any patriotic American and Bushevik.

I would've preferred the Trade Federation, myself.

I would've preferred the Trade Federation, myself.

Yeah, those guys really believe in free trade and all: you can tell by the way they blockade planets who don't trade with them! And their ethics regarding contracts prevent them from doing any worse than putting a gun to your head and saying "sign the contract or we shoot you."

Yeah, sounds like some great guys.

You are Linus and Lucy and I claim my £5.00 :p

Seriously, isn't the phrase "eminent Russian-American philosopher Ayn Rand" starting to wear a little thin?

That's right, you heard me. Star Trek is a communist propaganda tool, pure and simple. Look at the idealistic world Comrade Roddenberry created: if you can't tell he's a dirty commie just by that, then you are willfully blind.

The people of the Star Trek world have no money, no property, and few possessions. They live completely ascetic existences, yet they are all so happy. It's obvious that Comrade Roddenberry is trying to deceive us with his Marxist propaganda. Everyone knows that no one would ever agree to such a lifestyle.

And worst of all, there is no private enterprise! This is insufferable. So what if high technology largely makes markets obsolete, it is the worst denial of freedom to not have property. Everyone knows that private property is intrinsic to human nature. Only a meritorious few are motivated enough to put property to good use. Of course, Comrade Roddenberry wants you all to just ignore the horrible truth of communism: it doesn't work. He would set loose those greedy workers, all of them demanding more then their fair share.

Even worse then the totally biased depiction of the Federation is the horrible depiction of the Federation's foil: the Ferengi. These people show the true entrepreneurial spririt, and what do they get for it? They are universally condemned and Comrade Roddenberry only shows us his twisted view of what's bad about it. The Ferengi covet only wealth, and all that glitter is gold--pressed latinum, that is. But don't you see, as eminent Russian-American philosopher Ayn Rand argued, acting in your own naked self-interest is a good thing. Even if you harm everyone else around you, it's there fault for not being enterprising enough.

So, remember how truly diabolical Star Trek is. It is eminently unAmerican, and serves only to corrupt the youth with its devious communist propaganda about peace, happiness and sharing. Show you're true colors, Captain Che Picard

http://content.ytmnd.com/content/6/f/4/6f41d625d1b01e8ad1c196d34f1fbd9e.jpg

Does this guy know it's just a TV show?

Yeah, those guys really believe in free trade and all: you can tell by the way they blockade planets who don't trade with them! And their ethics regarding contracts prevent them from doing any worse than putting a gun to your head and saying "sign the contract or we shoot you."

Yeah, sounds like some great guys.

Aren't they? Now that's negotiation.

we prefer the term 'plot'

Hmm, does this mean that the Christian fundamentalist technique of denouncing books and television shows they don't agree with has been picked up by other segments of the Right?

Does this guy know it's just a TV show?

It's not just a TV show, it's not!

*cries*

*curses you in Klingon*

Ha'DIbaH!!

The people of the Star Trek world have no money, no property, and few possessions. They live completely ascetic existences, yet they are all so happy. It's obvious that Comrade Roddenberry is trying to deceive us with his Marxist propaganda. Everyone knows that no one would ever agree to such a lifestyle.
Dude, if I got to fly around in space and learn about the universe I wouldn't ask to be paid either. Just throw some cash at me for shore leave every now and then and let me replicate myself some non-synthehol daquiris.

Also, you have apparently ignored the Ferengi.

Everyone knows that private property is intrinsic to human nature.
Not really...

Even worse then the totally biased depiction of the Federation is the horrible depiction of the Federation's foil: the Ferengi. These people show the true entrepreneurial spririt, and what do they get for it? They are universally condemned and Comrade Roddenberry only shows us his twisted view of what's bad about it. The Ferengi covet only wealth, and all that glitter is gold--pressed latinum, that is. But don't you see, as eminent Russian-American philosopher Ayn Rand argued, acting in your own naked self-interest is a good thing. Even if you harm everyone else around you, it's there fault for not being enterprising enough.
The Ferengi aren't all douchebags, but most of them go after wealth without a conscience... however, I would hardly call them the Federation's foil. The Ferengi remain neutral in every conflict (even if some of them who have fewer scruples use this neutrality to sell arms to both sides) if anything, the Borg, who have no sense of individuality or the Romulans or the Dominion or (et c) are the enemies of the Federation.

Show you're true colors, Captain Che Picard
Goddamn, if I could get a t-shirt that depicted Jean Luc Picard as Che I would be happier than a pig in shit.

Goddamn, if I could get a t-shirt that depicted Jean Luc Picard as Che I would be happier than a pig in shit.

*makes shirt*

*sells on Cafe Press*

*gets rich!*

(hey a girl can dream right?)

Goddamn, if I could get a t-shirt that depicted Jean Luc Picard as Che I would be happier than a pig in shit.

*makes shirt*

*sells on Cafe Press*

*gets rich!*

(hey a girl can dream right?)

i just dont see how the pic would work. that famous one of che has all that hair sticking out from under his cap. you can put the cap on picard but the baldness would make it kinda goofy looking wouldnt it?

i just dont see how the pic would work. that famous one of che has all that hair sticking out from under his cap. you can put the cap on picard but the baldness would make it kinda goofy looking wouldnt it?

I have a pic of Picard and I thought I would just do the outline like Che is on most shirts I have seen.....but then it just didn't seem like enough, so I am figuring out what to do about that......nevermind the fact that I can't really sell them because I don't have rights to the pic I am messing with.

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/wackyplanetshop_1965_21861825

i just dont see how the pic would work. that famous one of che has all that hair sticking out from under his cap. you can put the cap on picard but the baldness would make it kinda goofy looking wouldnt it?
Nah, the baldness makes it stand out from the Che shirts just enough to be like "yeah, it's not a Che shirt, I'm a nerd"

I dunno, I've seen a Che shirt that has Einstein instead, it was pretty awesome.

I have a pic of Picard and I thought I would just do the outline like Che is on most shirts I have seen.....but then it just didn't seem like enough, so I am figuring out what to do about that......nevermind the fact that I can't really sell them because I don't have rights to the pic I am messing with.

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/wackyplanetshop_1965_21861825

you cant sell them but you can make one anyway.

if you have a pic of picard facing the same way that che is, i can make it for you. i just finally reinstalled my photoshop.

Two things:
1.This could mean that the best part of the Federation (that is, the Enterprise!) are commies... neh? ;)
2.Have mercy of the p00r n00b... :D

OMG! HEVILY-ARMD KOMMIEZ FROM TEH SPACE!

Being he only has 1 post he hasn't even bother to defend his point.

If anyone watched Star Trek Enterprise(which in my opion was the best of all the series)you see anti-commie stuff all the time.In the last episode Captain Archer helps found the federation.

And ze 'ol wiki sez that Sputnick waz ignored in teh opnin' credits.Russian Sputnick![I don't remember but I'll take there word for it...it's wiki how can't I?]

It does explain the red shirts.

Alas, winner of thread.
*bows*

Does this guy know it's just a TV show?

Of course that speech was a recreation of the Evil Captain Kirk from episode - um - 37, the name - The Enemy Within. Yeah. So thank you. Live long and prosper. So everybody set your phasers on stun cause this convention's ahead warp factor 9. All right. Warp factor 9.
:D

Picard clearly states in First Contact that money is not used within the Federation, and people work for society's interest.


Indeed. First Contact settled that debate quite clearly.

There's also an episode from Voyager where Tom Paris mentions when exactly money stopped being used in the Federation, but I forget what it was.

It seems to me money was still being used in the TOS period, but (obviously) no longer by TNG.

It's not just a TV show, it's not!

*cries*

*curses you in Klingon*

Ha'DIbaH!!

yablIj meQmeh pIvghor jonta'Daq pIwoD!

But don't you see, as eminent Russian-American philosopher Ayn Rand argued, acting in your own naked self-interest is a good thing.

No one takes Ayn Rand seriously, who isn't a complete whack-job themselves.

So...

Epic Fail?

Of course. Idealistically speaking, Communism is the best form of government. Practically speaking, people are selfish and Communism assumes people care about each other. Ergo it's flawed.

Hurray for Capitalism, the government that rightly assumes people are selfish!

Neither is a form of government. The two are the difference between a centrally planned economy and a free market economy.

History shows us that neither extreme really works, because people are too selfish and bureaucracy too inefficient for centrally planned economics to work and people are too selfish and some services too scarce (in a free market) for the free market to work.

That's right, you heard me. Star Trek is a communist propaganda tool, pure and simple. Look at the idealistic world Comrade Roddenberry created: if you can't tell he's a dirty commie just by that, then you are willfully blind.

The people of the Star Trek world have no money, no property, and few possessions. They live completely ascetic existences, yet they are all so happy. It's obvious that Comrade Roddenberry is trying to deceive us with his Marxist propaganda. Everyone knows that no one would ever agree to such a lifestyle.

And worst of all, there is no private enterprise! This is insufferable. So what if high technology largely makes markets obsolete, it is the worst denial of freedom to not have property. Everyone knows that private property is intrinsic to human nature. Only a meritorious few are motivated enough to put property to good use. Of course, Comrade Roddenberry wants you all to just ignore the horrible truth of communism: it doesn't work. He would set loose those greedy workers, all of them demanding more then their fair share.

Even worse then the totally biased depiction of the Federation is the horrible depiction of the Federation's foil: the Ferengi. These people show the true entrepreneurial spririt, and what do they get for it? They are universally condemned and Comrade Roddenberry only shows us his twisted view of what's bad about it. The Ferengi covet only wealth, and all that glitter is gold--pressed latinum, that is. But don't you see, as eminent Russian-American philosopher Ayn Rand argued, acting in your own naked self-interest is a good thing. Even if you harm everyone else around you, it's there fault for not being enterprising enough.

So, remember how truly diabolical Star Trek is. It is eminently unAmerican, and serves only to corrupt the youth with its devious communist propaganda about peace, happiness and sharing. Show you're true colors, Captain Che Picard

http://content.ytmnd.com/content/6/f/4/6f41d625d1b01e8ad1c196d34f1fbd9e.jpg

erm...if you say so. I'd try finding a hobby or something to give yourself summat to do.

Why is this thread still going? It was answered on page 1!

Ah, but the reason for the economic system of star trek is that scarcity has been eliminated, for all intents and purposes, with the development of replicator technology. Thus removing the primary reason for the existence of economic systems to allocate goods amongst individuals.

No one takes Ayn Rand seriously, who isn't a complete whack-job themselves.

So...

Epic Fail?
No, your post was epic fail. His post proposed an argument, you refused to even acknowledge it.

It seems to me money was still being used in the TOS period, but (obviously) no longer by TNG.
Yup, Federation credits. However, the Great Bird of the Galaxy decided when writing TNG that money would have gone by way of the dodo. Future writers, even for TNG; however, thought that really wouldn't work and more or less started to ignore it.
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Federation_credit

It does explain the red shirts.

Exactly! Why isn't it obvious to everyone else. Gene Roddenberry was a dirty commie, and his work practically screams it. Come on guys, no money, no advertising, people sharing and wearing red shirts and all that other hippy bullshit. Isn't obvious that the Federation is a 1984 style dystopia?

Two things:
1.This could mean that the best part of the Federation (that is, the Enterprise!) are commies... neh? ;)
2.Have mercy of the p00r n00b... :D

OMG! HEVILY-ARMD KOMMIEZ FROM TEH SPACE!

How could the best part be communist? The 20th century proved that communism can't work. Read teh Black Book of Kommunism to see the evil socialist lies revealed.

But, yes, heavily armed commies are the worst kind of commies. They might preach peace, love and sharing, but they'll blow you away at the first chance

And so are the Smurfs:

http://www.iamlost.com/features/smurfs/archive.shtml

zOMG!!!1! They were in on it too! The socialist conspiracy is everywhere!

yablIj meQmeh pIvghor jonta'Daq pIwoD!

Yay! Nerd drama!
:p

Yay! Nerd drama!
:p

I'd call you a Ptak but I don't know how to spell it. Or any other bit of Klingon for that matter.

What'd she say, anyway?

I'd call you a Ptak but I don't know how to spell it. Or any other bit of Klingon for that matter.

What'd she say, anyway?

Believe it or not, i actually possess the source material .. gimme a minute. :p

Actually, it's gonna take a few. :)

So far, i've got "yab" = mind/brain
"lIj" = forget
"meQ" = burn
"meH" = ship
"pIvghor" = warp drive
"johnta" ...maybe engine

Best i could do. I need to brush up on my nerdiness. :)

So...basically...she said that the mind forgot to burn the ship's warp engine?

Or...no wait!

She forgot to turn on her brain! It was said through a metaphor involving the warp engine burning, or being active.

So...basically...she said that the mind forgot to burn the ship's warp engine?
Erm, yeah.
Kinda ...
Fry: Well, usually on the show someone would come up with a complicated plan then explain it with a simple analogy.
Leela: Hmm. If we can reroute engine power through the primary weapons and reconfigure them to Melllvar's frequency that should overload his electro-quantum structure.
Bender: Like putting too much air in a ballon!
..
Leela: Its not working. He's drawing straight from our weapons.
Fry: Like a balloon when ...something bad happens!

Or...no wait!

She forgot to turn on her brain! It was said through a metaphor involving the warp engine burning, or being active.

FTW.
Much like early studies i tried on Latin.

Futurama's great.

Anyway, we'll wait for Arridia to come tell us what it was she actually meant, since I suspect I'm wrong.

sure it is. and the future is a marxist conspiracy too, right?

think about it. not quite so long as to warp your mind entirely.
but ah, precisely what is that saying exactly?

if the future is a marxist conspiracy are YOU SAYING that marxism OWNS the future? surely the o.p. didn't intend THAT; or did they?

=^^=
.../\...

Futurama's great.

Anyway, we'll wait for Arridia to come tell us what it was she actually meant, since I suspect I'm wrong.
A valiant effort nonetheless. *bows*

LOL a prized ship in a communist fleet is called the ENTERPRISE! wtf

Funny, first thing i thought too.
A brilliant deflection on Roddenberry's part, methinks.

LOL a prized ship in a communist fleet is called the ENTERPRISE! wtf

Exactly! Why isn't it obvious to everyone else.
Maybe because it's total baloney.

Gene Roddenberry was a dirty commie, and his work practically screams it.
Yes, again, do state again that only commies would work for the good of society, without any personal profit. I like it. I... like... it... mmmhhh...

Isn't obvious that the Federation is a 1984 style dystopia?
Clearly, no. You fail to understand 1984, sir. The point of 1984 is about describing how a totalitarian society hides facts via propaganda to attain consensus. Where is such behaviour in Star Trek's Federation?

How could the best part be communist?
You just told in the OP. You said that people working together for knowledge, peace, and other lofty ideals can only be a depiction of communism.
Hence, your argument managed to prove that only the utopian communist society is a society that embodies the best ideals of humankind. Unless you mean that being a social predator is a better ideal.

The 20th century proved that communism can't work. Read teh Black Book of Kommunism to see the evil socialist lies revealed.
1. "The black book of communism" isn't what I would call an unbiased source. Btw Berlusconi, the master of mediatic lies, continuously quotes it.
So really, come up with something better than a book that states that ALL the Soviet losses in WW2 (militaries and civilians alike) were Stalin's and the communism's fault - totally oblivious of a little thing called Nazism, I'd say.

2. 2000 years ago, both Greek democracies and the Roman republic had become a non-democratic and monarchical Empire. Did this prove that democracy and republic can't work? Or did the monarchical Restauration in 1816 prove that "libertè, egalitè, fraternitè" was buried for good?
NO, because democracy and republics are working NOW.
History doesn't "prove" anything. History merely records facts.

History also remembers that, just to quote some facts, the first world war was a product of the capitalistic society (where were commies in WW1, if not AGAINST that war?), so was the American civil war (two different capitalistic models against each other), so was the slave trade from Africa to the Americas... wanna do the body count, in percentage with the world population at the time? Eh.

But, yes, heavily armed commies are the worst kind of commies. They might preach peace, love and sharing, but they'll blow you away at the first chance
So, again you state that peace, love and sharing are good. Quod vide in your OP and my confutation of your logical failure.

I'm not saying that you don't have the right to dislike socialism and communism (of course I like them, but that's another thing): I'm just saying that you managed to prove the supremacy of communism on the ideal, ethical and moral ground while trying to label it as morally evil.
You might want to take a course in logics, it would do you and your dialectical ability lots of good.

LOL a prized ship in a communist fleet is called the ENTERPRISE! wtf

It's an improved version of the Russian Reversal!
After all, it's the Russian who called an ICBM "Topol" (Poplar tree), and a monstrous FAE-firing armoured complex "Buratino" - a sort of russian Pinocchio. Ah, those devious commies...

Damn. People still think Atlas Fountainhead is being serious...

Damn. People still think Atlas Fountainhead is being serious...

i withdraw my complaint of your "punk'd" post.

too bad people dont keep to 40 posts per page, they might have noticed that you confessed long ago.

I always thought the secret of the federation was guaranteed nookie, perfect birth control, and near perfect psychiatric happy pills. That and a replicator which can make just about anything from scrap in your backyard, costing $5 to make.

*snip*

When you post things like this, you'd think people would get the message. Perhaps I'll try again...