NationStates Jolt Archive


Iran Sanctions Working Well

Sel Appa
27-09-2007, 23:57
Well, as sanctions usual do, they are working well in Iran. The people are having trouble doing business and now hove to exchange money manually. Sanctions should be considered a war crime and a human rights violation. They haven't worked once in nearly a century. I hereby call for the repeal of all sanctions against any nation.

Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070926/lf_nm/iran_sanctions_firms_dc)

TEHRAN (Reuters) - When a Western bank suddenly suspended the account of her family freight firm, Nazila Noebashari revived a financial practice she thought long gone: she sent staff to the Afghan border to collect $50,000 by hand.

With foreign banks increasingly closing down business with Iranian customers in the face of U.S.-led sanctions, such physical transactions are the only way Traf Co Ltd and many other firms in Iran are staying in business.

"As an Iranian-based company we can't have a foreign currency account anywhere in the world," said Noebashari, who runs the transport company that was established in the 1930s and is now facing some of its biggest obstacles in seven decades.

"We have to go back to old traditions of carrying cash around," she told Reuters. "Carrying $50,000 in cash to any border these days is one of the biggest risks you can take -- both for the company and the employees doing it."

The prospect of thousands of dollars ferried around an area such as Afghanistan, earmarked by Washington as a hunting ground for terrorists, can scarcely delight Western security services. But this side-effect of sanctions is food for the thought of politicians rather than businessmen.

Noebashari's experience shows how Western punitive measures imposed on the Islamic Republic over its disputed nuclear activities are making it increasingly difficult to conduct business in the world's fourth largest oil producer.

Other Iranian executives, often reluctant to use their names, cite mounting problems in obtaining finance from abroad for imports, rising interest charges on the credits they do obtain and growing wariness among European and other partners.

One Iranian trader said equipment for a university listed as "laboratory" items -- for an arts rather than science department -- took 10 weeks to get an export permit to Iran from a European state, compared with the usual two.

"CREATIVE"

Another businessman cited problems obtaining equipment for his detergent plant, saying it was barred on suspicion it might have a "dual use," meaning it could have an application in Iran's nuclear program. He was baffled what that could be.

A construction executive showed Reuters offices in a new building in Tehran. He built it with plans to expand, but some of the floors are now empty looking for tenants.

He has opted to investigate projects in Dubai, a regional financial and commercial centre, where others are also seeking to open offices to skirt problems of doing business from Iran.

They are paying the price for a U.S.-led drive to isolate Tehran over atomic work Washington suspects is aimed at making bombs. Iran denies this, saying it wants to generate electricity to export more gas and oil.

Life may get tougher still. The United States is now seeking a third round of United Nations sanctions and is also putting pressure on Western companies not to invest in Iran.

Major banks including Switzerland's UBS and Germany's Deutsche Bank have decided to either cut all ties or reduce their dealings with the country.

"They are between doing nothing and doing very little," said one international banking source of foreign banks in Iran.

Western businessmen also complain of growing problems in Iran as a result of the nuclear standoff. The cost of issuing letters of credit, a crucial instrument in financing trade, has risen sharply over the last year.

One Western executive suggested some larger Iranian firms were still able to find alternative ways of financing projects and transferring cash in and out of the country. Bankers say some non-Western banks are more ready to deal with Iran.

"Iranian businessmen are probably among the world's most creative. They have been under sanctions for 30 years," he said.

"UNFAIR"

But Noebashari, who succeeded her father as managing director of the family firm, said times were getting desperate after Standard Chartered cancelled the firm's account in Dubai.

"We get a letter on July 27 saying that by August 2 all your transactions will be stopped," she said, sitting behind a plain wooden desk with her hair covered by the traditional Muslim headscarf. "It is unfair, it is unprofessional."

She showed a copy of a letter with the British bank's name on it. Standard Chartered in Dubai had no comment.

Traf Co Ltd was set up by Noebashari's grandfather when Iran was a monarchy. She says it is now going through its most difficult time since the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war.

"In six months I close down if it goes on like this."

Iranian officials brush aside the impact of sanctions, saying the economy is growing strongly and foreigners still invest, even if unemployment and inflation are in double-digits.

Boasting the world's second largest gas and oil reserves, Iran remains a coveted prize for international oil companies. But Royal Dutch Shell and Total have both indicated political tension could influence investment plans.

French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner, saying his country should prepare for the possibility of war against Iran, on September 16 urged French firms not to bid for work there. European Union officials say new EU investment in Iran is dwindling.

French auto maker Renault, building its Logan no-frills car in Iran with local partners, has said demand is strong but the ramp-up of production slow for two reasons -- there were customs problems with some parts coming from Romania and some quality problems with Iranian parts.

Despite signs of growing economic woes, Noebashari said sanctions would not change the policies of Iran's government -- which has made windfall gains from high oil prices in recent years -- just as sanctions failed in Iraq in the 1990s.

"A second Iraq is going to be created where people of the country will suffer more than the regime," she said.

She said her company, which employs 32 people, had lost business both in the United States and in Afghan reconstruction projects as a result of sanctions.

"The Pakistanis have been taking lots of freight away from Iran because the minute our name is mentioned, especially with Americans paying for the jobs, we lose a contract," she said.

(Additional reporting by Marcel Michelson)
Dontgonearthere
28-09-2007, 00:04
Theoretically, sanctions are the step between 'strongly worded warning' and 'military intervention'. Would you rather we just skipped up to that step?

National leaders will be national leaders. Sometimes it sucks, but thats how politics goes. Hell if I know why. Still, it kept the US and Soviet Union from blowing each other to hell.
Corneliu 2
28-09-2007, 00:56
Um no we shouldn't repeal them. No matter who the sanctions are targeted against or on what industries, people will get hurt regardless.
Sel Appa
28-09-2007, 00:59
Theoretically, sanctions are the step between 'strongly worded warning' and 'military intervention'. Would you rather we just skipped up to that step?

National leaders will be national leaders. Sometimes it sucks, but thats how politics goes. Hell if I know why. Still, it kept the US and Soviet Union from blowing each other to hell.

We should let Iran go about its business. Iran has as much right to use nuclear technology in any way as we do.
Emsoland
28-09-2007, 01:05
Sanctions usually seem to have a negative effct turning the prople of a country against the countries impossing the sanctions. Therefore stregnthening the position of the rogue goverment.
Corneliu 2
28-09-2007, 01:13
We should let Iran go about its business. Iran has as much right to use nuclear technology in any way as we do.

But...

they are not forth coming with solid, verifiable information that that is all they are doing. The way they are acting, it is not out of the realm of possibility that they are indeed pursuing a nuclear weapons program and that is illegal under the NPT.
Andaras Prime
28-09-2007, 02:24
But...

they are not forth coming with solid, verifiable information that that is all they are doing. The way they are acting, it is not out of the realm of possibility that they are indeed pursuing a nuclear weapons program and that is illegal under the NPT.

The burden is on the accuser to prove their claims, not the other way around. Also does anyone else find it highly hypocritical given the massive amount of US nuclear weapons around?
Layarteb
28-09-2007, 02:27
Theoretically, sanctions are the step between 'strongly worded warning' and 'military intervention'. Would you rather we just skipped up to that step?

National leaders will be national leaders. Sometimes it sucks, but thats how politics goes. Hell if I know why. Still, it kept the US and Soviet Union from blowing each other to hell.

Precisely the point of them, rather than just go right through the gears to full war, this is another method and most of the times they're approved with the consensus of UN bodies (which most people hold to some sort of esteem even though it isn't worth it).

Um no we shouldn't repeal them. No matter who the sanctions are targeted against or on what industries, people will get hurt regardless.

How many people are going to die in sanctions vs. 2,000 lb. JDAMs falling? It's the lesser of two evils...
Corneliu 2
28-09-2007, 02:34
The burden is on the accuser to prove their claims, not the other way around. Also does anyone else find it highly hypocritical given the massive amount of US nuclear weapons around?

No as we are not in violation of the NPT. As to the accuser to prove their claims, they still have to receive cooperation. No cooperation means that someone has something to hide which means the inspectors can't do their jobs which means no one can verify anything.
Intestinal fluids
28-09-2007, 02:36
Sounds like Sanctions are working perfectly and as intended to me. Its not our countries job to insure that Iran has plentiful access to anything frankly. If the people of Iran get unhappy enough about not having stuff then they will revolt just like Russia in the 80s.
Andaras Prime
28-09-2007, 02:38
No as we are not in violation of the NPT. As to the accuser to prove their claims, they still have to receive cooperation. No cooperation means that someone has something to hide which means the inspectors can't do their jobs which means no one can verify anything.

Iran is cooperating with the IAEA, the IAEA themselves admitted this, Iran has no undeclared facilities and the President's speech made it quite clear indeed that this matter will now be dealt with through the nuclear watchdog rather than trial by media and US political interference. We all know the US does not respect sovereignty though... The only international group that has any credibility these days is the Non-Aligned Movement. And as Russia, China and others have said, they intend for the IAEA to deal with this.
Corneliu 2
28-09-2007, 02:42
Sounds like Sanctions are working perfectly and as intended to me. Its not our countries job to insure that Iran has plentiful access to anything frankly. If the people of Iran get unhappy enough about not having stuff then they will revolt just like Russia in the 80s.

And in 1917 too.
Andaras Prime
28-09-2007, 02:44
Sanctions are not new to the Iranian people, they suffered them for nearly a decade while Saddam using US-made nerve gas and bullet massacred Iranian citizens while the UN sat by and did nothing, this resulted in Iran having their own total self-sufficient arms and weapons development industry, if anything these sanctions will prove the striving tenacity of the Iranian people to be free of foreign imperialism, and no doubt it will result in self-sufficient industry to be free of foreign import needs. I think working together with Chavez and some Arab states that under 3$ a barrel, the US will crack first.
Intestinal fluids
28-09-2007, 02:45
Sanctions have also proven extremely effective against North Korea and could reasonably argue in Libya as well.
Corneliu 2
28-09-2007, 02:45
Iran is cooperating with the IAEA, the IAEA themselves admitted this, Iran has no undeclared facilities and the President's speech made it quite clear indeed that this matter will now be dealt with through the nuclear watchdog rather than trial by media and US political interference. We all know the US does not respect sovereignty though... The only international group that has any credibility these days is the Non-Aligned Movement.

Most of the nations that make up this Non-Aligned Movement do not have much in the way of military power. As to cooperating, I will believe when I actually see it. Anyone who studies Political Science knows never to believe anything unless one sees it with their own eyes. I've heard speeches like the one the Iranian "leader" gave before and it always turns out to be the opposite. Maybe they are actually telling the truth. I do not know and until I see proof that they are fully cooperating, I won't trust what Iran says.

And as Russia, China and others have said, they intend for the IAEA to deal with this.

And they should but also, a line has to be drawn on Iran as well.
Marrakech II
28-09-2007, 02:47
The burden is on the accuser to prove their claims, not the other way around. Also does anyone else find it highly hypocritical given the massive amount of US nuclear weapons around?

You know the world just isn't fair is it? It applies to all of us in the singular form and on the national level.

I think the world has enough proof to know if a nation is producing a bomb or not. We have a long record of how nations go about making them. There have been billions spent on our intelligence networks to detect these things. I also prefer to be on the safe side and will say with more than a reasonable doubt the Iran is trying to make the bomb.
Non Aligned States
28-09-2007, 03:00
I also prefer to be on the safe side and will say with more than a reasonable doubt the Iran is trying to make the bomb.

Weren't you against the legislation that would have prevented army veterans who were diagnosed with PTSD from owning guns?
Andaras Prime
28-09-2007, 03:04
Sanctions have also proven extremely effective against North Korea and could reasonably argue in Libya as well.

I think this just shows how little you know, North Korea isn't under sanctions, it refuses to trade with the world, it's part of the Junche self-reliance ideology.
South Lorenya
28-09-2007, 05:00
The poroblem with sanctions is that the poor people feel them first and the rich people feel them last. And when a government is corrupt enough to be sanctioned, they generally have enough ill-gotten gains to be among the richest.
Intestinal fluids
28-09-2007, 05:14
I think this just shows how little you know, North Korea isn't under sanctions, it refuses to trade with the world, it's part of the Junche self-reliance ideology.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/29/AR2006112900388.html

"The State Department's newly released list of no-go goodies blends knowledge and legend of the diminutive strongman's high-end tastes. Denying Kim what he craves, the theory goes, might prompt better behavior from a dictator who reportedly spends nearly a million dollars a year on rare cognac."

"Kim's former chef has written that the man known as "Dear Leader" fancies sushi, Iranian caviar and shark-fin soup. He is said to have every grain of rice inspected for perfection. "

I may not know much but i know what i know.
Marrakech II
28-09-2007, 05:39
Weren't you against the legislation that would have prevented army veterans who were diagnosed with PTSD from owning guns?


I don't believe I commented in that thread.
Delator
28-09-2007, 06:10
I think this just shows how little you know

This should be good...

North Korea isn't under sanctions

Intestinal fluids beat me to it.

it refuses to trade with the world

O RLY?

http://www.asiatradehub.com/n.korea/trade4.asp

Japan ranked first as a trading partner with North Korea as China's role was diminished. This phenomenon was largely due to the resumption of Japan's grant-type aid toward North Korea and an expansion in processed production including electric products and clothing etc. Although China is still playing an important role as a base for food and energy, North Korea's reliance on China as a trading country is gradually reducing.

Other trading partners include Thailand, India, Hong Kong, Russia, and Singapore by the order of relative trading amounts. It is worth special mention that Thailand emerged as one of the main countries for North Korea's exports.

That's just one link...I'm sure you can find some more.

it's part of the Junche self-reliance ideology.

That's "Juche"...and considering how much they are reliant on foreign aid, I fail to see how anyone could view North Korea as self-reliant or self-sufficient.
Gauthier
28-09-2007, 06:22
Sanctions aimed at questionable regimes almost never work. The target demographics it's aimed at never give a shit, and the actual damage is mainly inflicted on the rest of the populace, who then usually become more pliable to government manipulation and propaganda.
Non Aligned States
28-09-2007, 06:39
Sanctions aimed at questionable regimes almost never work. The target demographics it's aimed at never give a shit, and the actual damage is mainly inflicted on the rest of the populace, who then usually become more pliable to government manipulation and propaganda.

Sanctions are just a fancier, and bigger scale version of a siege, minus the occasional artillery shell/rocket/boulder lobbed your way.

The civilians suffer first.
The army next.
The king suffers last.
Non Aligned States
28-09-2007, 06:40
I don't believe I commented in that thread.

My bad then.
Rogue Protoss
28-09-2007, 20:26
Um no we shouldn't repeal them. No matter who the sanctions are targeted against or on what industries, people will get hurt regardless.
hey genius that just helps the goverments postition that the USA is a group of horrible satan worshipping fat homosexuals oil guzzlers
Gravlen
29-09-2007, 08:56
A question: Did economic sanctions directed at the South African apartheid government work? Did it contribute to the change that followed?

A link:
Even more explosive is the data that reveals US hypocrisy over sanctions. The German Foreign Ministry accuses American firms of bypassing the boycott against Iran, which has been in place since 1979, by creating front companies in Dubai to carry out their business. German politicians have long internally accused the United States of knowingly tolerating the practice.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,507443,00.html

or two:
Even as the Bush administration is pushing for new sanctions against Iran, officials acknowledge that the United States has not carried out existing Security Council penalties on several companies linked to Iran’s nuclear and missile programs. Officials say they lack identifying information that would ensure that the right companies are punished.

“No one believes in these sanctions more than we do,” a senior administration official said, speaking anonymously because of the delicacy of the issue. “We want to see them applied, not just announced. But there is the technical problem of getting the right identifier information that can pass muster in a court of law.”

Beyond the awkwardness of the situation, European officials said the administration’s difficulties were an irritant in the negotiations with Europe, Russia and China for a possible new round of sanctions. The Europeans say that Russia and China remain distrustful of American motives and that European business interests with ties to Iran are resisting cutting them back.

The failure of the United States to carry out sanctions against many companies and individuals is cited by some European diplomats as a case of Washington not practicing what it is preaching.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/17/world/middleeast/17sanctions.html
CoallitionOfTheWilling
29-09-2007, 09:13
Theoretically, sanctions are the step between 'strongly worded warning' and 'military intervention'. Would you rather we just skipped up to that step?

National leaders will be national leaders. Sometimes it sucks, but thats how politics goes. Hell if I know why. Still, it kept the US and Soviet Union from blowing each other to hell.


What kept the USSR and the US from blowing each other to hell (and the rest of the world really if you believe in the Nuclear Domino theory...) was MAD, Not the UN.
Gravlen
29-09-2007, 10:08
What kept the USSR and the US from blowing each other to hell (and the rest of the world really if you believe in the Nuclear Domino theory...) was MAD, Not the UN.

Nah-ah! MAD and the UN.
Sel Appa
29-09-2007, 17:49
Sanctions are just a fancier, and bigger scale version of a siege, minus the occasional artillery shell/rocket/boulder lobbed your way.

The civilians suffer first.
The army next.
The king suffers last.

You cannot siege a country. There will always be enough people to work some farms inside the country.
Yootopia
29-09-2007, 23:41
I think this just shows how little you know, North Korea isn't under sanctions, it refuses to trade with the world, it's part of the Junche self-reliance ideology.
...

I lol'd.