NationStates Jolt Archive

So, it's only half a million -- $600,000 to be exact. But why even bother?

It seems that there is a building on the Coronado Amphib Base that looks like a swastika from the air. It was built in the '60s and no one cared what it looked like. It was just one of those ugly government barracks.

But now that everyone has access to overhead imagery, it's a big deal.
http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2007-09/32801060.jpg
It escapes me how the ADL can find this offensive (http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/california/la-me-swastika26sep26,1,6927663.story?coll=la-headlines-pe-california) --- Wait, they're professional victims, now I understand. But there should be a limit where we just say 'No' to them and move on. This instance is clearly inadvertent and trivial to boot.

I suspect the Navy could find a better use for that $600,000. I probably could find a better use for the fraction of my taxes that make up that total.

Clearly the US Navy are secretly all nazis. How lucky that we found them out before they could destroy us all.



:rolleyes:

Coronado uber alles

I think it's time to return to the swastika the meaning it had before the 1930s. What better way to fight Nazi ideology than taking its symbols away from them?

I think it's time to return to the swastika the meaning it had before the 1930s. What better way to fight Nazi ideology than taking its symbols away from them?

Pwning Hitler worked well. But yeah, making the swastika about...puppies or something would really make skinheads seem silly.

I think it's time to return to the swastika the meaning it had before the 1930s. What better way to fight Nazi ideology than taking its symbols away from them?

1. Roman salute
2. Goosestepping
3. Military parades

Just some of the cool things Nazi's had to ruin for us.

So, it's only half a million -- $600,000 to be exact. But why even bother?

It seems that there is a building on the Coronado Amphib Base that looks like a swastika from the air. It was built in the '60s and no one cared what it looked like.


I think you speculate a little too much here. Someone might have cared a whole lot about how it looked. Indeed, the design brief may have been very specific that it should look like a swastika.

I don't know for sure, and I'd be willing to bet you don't either.


It was just one of those ugly government barracks.

But now that everyone has access to overhead imagery, it's a big deal.
http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2007-09/32801060.jpg
It escapes me how the ADL can find this offensive (http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/california/la-me-swastika26sep26,1,6927663.story?coll=la-headlines-pe-california) --- Wait, they're professional victims, now I understand. But there should be a limit where we just say 'No' to them and move on. This instance is clearly inadvertent and trivial to boot.

I suspect the Navy could find a better use for that $600,000. I probably could find a better use for the fraction of my taxes that make up that total.

Yes. We could give it the poorest Americans. Or put it towards healthcare for the uninsured. I agree.

Yes. We could give it the poorest Americans. Or put it towards health care for the uninsured. I agree.
Clever, but not clever enough -- That's not inconsistent with my desires for health care reform.

Now, back to the regularly scheduled nonsense...

One would have expected that the architect would have presented a plan view to the the Navy at some point. Possibly, it was only a '+' at that point and further additions added the embellishments that make it a true swastika.

Anyway, I fail to see how this is an example of antisemitism, or how it defames the Jewish people in any way.

Clever, but not clever enough -- That's not inconsistent with my desires for health care reform.


Clever, but not clever enough?

I wonder if even you know what you are talking about... I sure as hell don't.


Now, back to the regularly scheduled nonsense...

One would have expected that the architect would have presented a plan view to the the Navy at some point. Possibly, it was only a '+' at that point and further additions added the embellishments that make it a true swastika.

Anyway, I fail to see how this is an example of antisemitism, or how it defames the Jewish people in any way.

Do you know for a fact that the design brief was a 'cross'? No. Do you know the sturcture was NOT designed explicitly to look like a swastika? No.

Anything else is pure conjecture. You claim authority you just don't have. It's as simple as that.

Wait, they're professional victims, now I understand.

Am I the only one who finds it ironic when people claim they are being victimized, say as a taxpayer, by professional victims?

Pwning Hitler worked well. But yeah, making the swastika about...puppies or something would really make skinheads seem silly.
We should get rid of these in one fell swoop - all other racial epithets and ruined symbols. Just remake the Jeffersons but use all the other epithets.

Pwning Hitler worked well. But yeah, making the swastika about...puppies or something would really make skinheads seem silly.

I hope the gay rights people start wearing swastika armbands. It'd be funny to see a goosestepping line of queens with their arms out in a Roman Salute at the next gay pride march. Come to think of it they can give us back the word for cheerful and brightly colored and refer to themselves as, "Nordic," or, "White."

"So, dude... Are you a skinhead or a fag?" It's so hard to tell.

Do you know for a fact that the design brief was a 'cross'? No. Do you know the sturcture was NOT designed explicitly to look like a swastika? No.


It's not that old. All the documentation for the design will still be out there. And I seriously doubt that the specs asked for a building that looked like a swastika in a plan view. In fact I am positive they didn't.

More likely it just wasn't thought of as a big deal, rather a decent solution to get enough green space around the barracks.

Anyway, I fail to see how this is an example of antisemitism, or how it defames the Jewish people in any way.

It's insulting to Jewish astronauts.

That or Jewish parachuters.

It's not that old. All the documentation for the design will still be out there. And I seriously doubt that the specs asked for a building that looked like a swastika in a plan view.


No, maybe not in those exact words. Or maybe so.. I've not seen the scoping document, and I doubt you have.

But, you are right on one thing.. what we have is doubt. No certainty.


In fact I am positive they didn't.


That wouldn't be a wise position to take.


More likely it just wasn't thought of as a big deal, rather a decent solution to get enough green space around the barracks.

Maybe. It would be a logical answer. I could totally accept that premise. On the other hand, maybe one person, or maybe more than that, had a sinister motive. We are playing with insufficient data. That's kind of been my point.

Maybe. It would be a logical answer. I could totally accept that premise. On the other hand, maybe one person, or maybe more than that, had a sinister motive. We are playing with insufficient data. That's kind of been my point.

Yes, the sinister motive of buildings shaped like swastikas when seen from above. This is truly whats wrong with this corruptive society of ours... Think of the children!

Personally when I saw the pic, I thought "what a great way to let everyone have a view of some greenery" The dorms at my school were made such that my window looked right into someone else's about thirty-forty feet away- I wish my building had been shaped like a swastika.

L + H | are all common shapes used in naval architecture for barrack designs. This design is no major deal to me, as it is pretty much standard.

Yes, the sinister motive of buildings shaped like swastikas when seen from above. This is truly whats wrong with this corruptive society of ours... Think of the children!

Personally when I saw the pic, I thought "what a great way to let everyone have a view of some greenery" The dorms at my school were made such that my window looked right into someone else's about thirty-forty feet away- I wish my building had been shaped like a swastika.

*Calls ADL* :D

That wouldn't be a wise position to take.


I am beyond a reasonable doubt about it.

This is not the only swastika shaped building in plan view. There are quite a few of them built both before and after WWII. I imagine this layout was chosen for the same reasons as the others: cost, green space, plenty of windows, maximize natural light, fire safety &c.

I imagine the similarity was noticed at some point, but dismissed because no-one would ever see it.

Yes, the sinister motive of buildings shaped like swastikas when seen from above. This is truly whats wrong with this corruptive society of ours... Think of the children!


Doctor! This man is made of straw!

I didn't imply the swastika-like nature of this building was "whats wrong with this corruptive society of ours". I can thing of things that bother me (at least) a whole lot more. 600 billion dollars pissing into the desert, accompanied by an ever increasing deathtoll, makes 600k for a bit of greenery seem nonsensical. Considering the real waste, even a gesture like this looks significant.

I am beyond a reasonable doubt about it.

This is not the only swastika shaped building in plan view. There are quite a few of them built both before and after WWII. I imagine this layout was chosen for the same reasons as the others: cost, green space, plenty of windows, maximize natural light, fire safety &c.

I imagine the similarity was noticed at some point, but dismissed because no-one would ever see it.

I would imagine you are right.

On the other hand, as I've pointed out since the first response... none of us knows. So - to pretend to any kind of knowledge or certainty, is worthy of ridicule.

I would imagine you are right.

On the other hand, as I've pointed out since the first response... none of us knows. So - to pretend to any kind of knowledge or certainty, is worthy of ridicule.

Yes, it's not possible to be absolutely certain that this isn't the product of Nazi sympathizers or a prank in extremely bad taste. But it's a bit tinfoil to act otherwise absent some positive evidence that it did in fact occur.

Given that their are buildings dating back to the 18th century (at least) that use this layout for pragmatic reasons, I think it passes the reasonable doubt test.

I don't subscribe to the world domination by international jewish financiers theory either, even though I can't disprove it.

Yes, it's not possible to be absolutely certain that this isn't the product of Nazi sympathizers or a prank in extremely bad taste. But it's a bit tinfoil to act otherwise absent some positive evidence that it did in fact occur.


The important part here isn't your whittering about tinfoil, it's the simple fact that it isn't possible to be certain.

As a thought, of course, Watergate looked kind of like a conspiracy. Sometimes - things that look like consipracies, are conspiracies. That's the problem with your 'tinfoil' meandering - it assumes that paranoia can never be based on anything real.


Given that their are buildings dating back to the 18th century (at least) that use this layout for pragmatic reasons, I think it passes the reasonable doubt test.


I'm not doubting there are good reasons. I'm not doubting there are similar historical structures.

What I was addressing was the certainty with which any connotation was dismissed. You say 'passes the reasonable doubt test', and I'm inclined to agree. However, it doesn't come close to certainty about the motives of the prime mover.


I don't subscribe to the world domination by international jewish financiers theory either, even though I can't disprove it.

Errr... okay. Would you say such a thing was impossible? I fear the strawmen have returned with reinforcements.

As a thought, of course, Watergate looked kind of like a conspiracy. Sometimes - things that look like consipracies, are conspiracies. That's the problem with your 'tinfoil' meandering - it assumes that paranoia can never be based on anything real.

I'll change my mind if anyone actually digs any evidence up about this. But at the moment it's all unfounded speculation. All that is known is that there is a building that in plan view somewhat resembles a swastika. And I am saying that it is just not reasonable to assume that it is the product of a Nazi conspiracy absent further evidence.

Also, I'm not sure that paranoia is ever based on anything real. I think it's based in paranoia. Sometimes the paranoid are right, but that is merely co-incidental. Sort of like a stopped clock.


I'm not doubting there are good reasons. I'm not doubting there are similar historical structures.

What I was addressing was the certainty with which any connotation was dismissed. You say 'passes the reasonable doubt test', and I'm inclined to agree. However, it doesn't come close to certainty about the motives of the prime mover.

http://www.neuralgourmet.com/2006/08/27/revisiting_the_swastika_in_san_diego

It's a blog, so take it for what you will. But it seems as if no-one ever even considered the plan view until too late.

Of course it is not impossible to rule out that the architect who dreamt up the design secretly wanted to fete Adolf Hitler and cunningly slipped this by. But if he's still alive (not certain), he'll only deny it anyway. Leaving everyone back at square one.


Errr... okay. Would you say such a thing was impossible? I fear the strawmen have returned with reinforcements.

It's not a strawman. I was telling you how I felt about these things. I could have picked those angel theories or alien abduction, but the jewish financier story seemed appropriate given the subject matter.

Now; would I say it's impossible? No, it's not impossible. But there is no real evidence whatsoever for it. And it's unreasonable to expect rational people to put any credence in it otherwise. Just because something is not impossible is no reason to start acting as if it actually happened or worry about.

It's a blog, so take it for what you will. But it seems as if no-one ever even considered the plan view until too late.

Of course it is not impossible to rule out that the architect who dreamt up the design secretly wanted to fete Adolf Hitler and cunningly slipped this by. But if he's still alive (not certain), he'll only deny it anyway. Leaving everyone back at square one.


We agree.

We are unlikely to be given an absolute answer either way.

We even agree on which is the more likely origin.

Let's see if we agree on the crux - would you say that the OP can't be as SURE as he likes to present himself, about this issue?


It's not a strawman. I was telling you how I felt about these things.


That's no guarantee it's not a strawman. It looks like you're appealing to ridicule, and it looks like your trying to fight the conspiracy-ness by bringing in different conspiracy-ness. If it isn't a strawman, it has a certain scarecrow-y appearance about it's features.


I could have picked those angel theories or alien abduction, but the jewish financier story seemed appropriate given the subject matter.

Now; would I say it's impossible? No, it's not impossible. But there is no real evidence whatsoever for it. And it's unreasonable to expect rational people to put any credence in it otherwise.

Agreed. Which is basically half the reason I'm an Atheist.

Tear those nazi barracks down - then let's get rid of that giant pentagram in D.C.

So, it's only half a million -- $600,000 to be exact. But why even bother?

It seems that there is a building on the Coronado Amphib Base that looks like a swastika from the air. It was built in the '60s and no one cared what it looked like. It was just one of those ugly government barracks.

But now that everyone has access to overhead imagery, it's a big deal.
http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2007-09/32801060.jpg
It escapes me how the ADL can find this offensive (http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/california/la-me-swastika26sep26,1,6927663.story?coll=la-headlines-pe-california) --- Wait, they're professional victims, now I understand. But there should be a limit where we just say 'No' to them and move on. This instance is clearly inadvertent and trivial to boot.

I suspect the Navy could find a better use for that $600,000. I probably could find a better use for the fraction of my taxes that make up that total.

I would agree with you but weren't you the one who wanted to try Harry Ried for treason?

Clearly the US Navy are secretly all nazis. How lucky that we found them out before they could destroy us all.



:rolleyes:

This concerns me. Ought I to be a Nazi to join the Navy?

Meh, I'm not bothered by this building one bit. People need to calm down.

They should just sell it to some neo-nazis to have as their little new Nazi Germany. Machine gun emplacements and walls can be built by the US to keep the Nazis from spreading.

"So, dude... Are you a skinhead or a fag?" It's so hard to tell.

The best thing ive heard in a very long time!! Bloody brilliant idea! What makes it even better is in 30 years or so, when people look at that same swastika-shaped building, they'll associate the navy with homosexuals and theres nothing new there!!

You know, looking at that building, i think thats a great design. Accessibility, lighting, the views from the windows and the open spaces it would produce, and the efficiency of space in the buildings themselves... i have to say that if i were to make a building, thats a pretty good looking way to do it.

Man, swastikas have great feng shui.

If someone did decide that this could very subliminally offend people or be a standing symbol of fascism, its a pretty poor attempt to offend people in my opinion. The money aside, i think the building shouldnt be redesigned because of the strength of the current design, and if every time something remotely resembling a swastika pops up every jew in the world screams bloody murder, then youre giving the neo-nazis exactly what they want.

Accept it. Applaud its design. Ignore what it meant to a bunch of fascist aryans 60 years ago, or a bunch of skin-heads today. That would really discredit the fascist cause, rather than giving them the knowledge its so easy to make people cringe.

Pfft, if it helps whoever is unhappy with it, think of it as a traditional Hindu/Buddhist/'other Asian religions and philosophies' symbol.

I remember when I was in China with a tour group of old Germans. Always good for laughs to see their reaction to wall decorations made of swastikas. :D

And just because it sort of fits the topic: http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2800108,00.html

You know, looking at that building, i think thats a great design. Accessibility, lighting, the views from the windows and the open spaces it would produce, and the efficiency of space in the buildings themselves... i have to say that if i were to make a building, thats a pretty good looking way to do it.

Man, swastikas have great feng shui.

If someone did decide that this could very subliminally offend people or be a standing symbol of fascism, its a pretty poor attempt to offend people in my opinion. The money aside, i think the building shouldnt be redesigned because of the strength of the current design, and if every time something remotely resembling a swastika pops up every jew in the world screams bloody murder, then youre giving the neo-nazis exactly what they want.

Accept it. Applaud its design. Ignore what it meant to a bunch of fascist aryans 60 years ago, or a bunch of skin-heads today. That would really discredit the fascist cause, rather than giving them the knowledge its so easy to make people cringe.
Apart from the feng shui nonsense, I must completely agree with you. Well done, good sir.

Where is that?

CORONADO, Calif

*Goes to Google Earth*

Now may be a good time to ask them to do something about that mountain that's always giving me the finger.

The sad thing is, this is some old fucking news. It pops up on the internet every year or so then everyone forgets about it.

Doctor! This man is made of straw!

I didn't imply the swastika-like nature of this building was "whats wrong with this corruptive society of ours". I can thing of things that bother me (at least) a whole lot more. 600 billion dollars pissing into the desert, accompanied by an ever increasing deathtoll, makes 600k for a bit of greenery seem nonsensical. Considering the real waste, even a gesture like this looks significant.

I wasn't trying to give a serious rebuttal, rather just trying to illustrate how ridiculous any implication that a NAZI sympathizer would build a building to look like a swastika from the sky. And even if he did, to what ends? Its not hurting anyone, and it is providing a needed service for the government- I see no reason to waste 600 thousand. Just because there are other more important issues, doesn't make our government doing ridiculous things- such as spending 600 thousand to asuage someone's ego over a perceived insult.