NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.wtvr.com/global/story.asp?s=7059361


Ice Cream Store Robbery May Have Been Caught on Tape

The Richmond Commonwealth's Attorney says his office will work closely with police over the next 30 days collecting evidence, interviewing and re interviewing witnesses in last Thursday night's shooting. Michael Herring says if and when a grand jury gets the case no stone will be left unturned.

He talked with reporters today for the first time but would not get into any details about the investigation. The 21 year old manager, David Fielding, could still avoid prosecution or could face charges ranging from manslaughter to murder. Police say he shot and killed 43 year old Jerome Davis after he robbed the store. Herring says the circumstances surrounding the moment when the manager pulled the trigger are the focus of the case.

"The law, as far as I know never recognizes the right to use deadly force to protect or defend property so what we've got to determine is the circumstances which the shots were fired," says Herring.

Cameras in the Baskin Robbins may have captured the shooting. An employee says they were installed a few weeks ago after another robbery at the ice cream shop.

In the meantime, the Baskin Robbins employees are taking steps to protect themselves from future crime.

They posted a sign saying the store will close at 9 PM like the other shops in the Stratford Hills neighborhood so it's not the only place open late.

CBS 6 also learned Fielding did not have a permit to conceal his gun in Chesterfield County, where police records show he lives.

So far Fielding has not returned calls to CBS 6.

Residents and business owners plan to give Herring a petition they signed this week asking him not to prosecute the manager.

What says NSG on this issue. Opinions welcomed.

Further details in this case include the perpetrator used a realistic looking BB gun. He was also recently released from prison for a previous robberies.

Relapsing into armed robbery, and using a realistic looking pellet gun to commit armed robbery. And the manager had a real gun to defend himself and the property with.

I call the end result natural selection at work.

http://www.wtvr.com/global/story.asp?s=7059361



What says NSG on this issue. Opinions welcomed.

Further details in this case include the perpetrator used a realistic looking BB gun. He was also recently released from prison for a previous robberies.

Good for the manager. Hopefully he will not be prosecuted.

I call the end result natural selection at work.

Depends on when the shot was fired. If it was at the moment of the robbery, I could see that. But if the manager followed the robber out into the carpark and shot him in the back, that's a different story.

I mean you could reasonably argue self defense if you killed someone who is in the process of burgling your house. But if you chase the guy out, knock him down in the street and stab him a few times, that's generally manslaughter.

Depends on when the shot was fired. If it was at the moment of the robbery, I could see that. But if the manager followed the robber out into the carpark and shot him in the back, that's a different story.

I mean you could reasonably argue self defense if you killed someone who is in the process of burgling your house. But if you chase the guy out, knock him down in the street and stab him a few times, that's generally manslaughter.

Unless you're a Terminator cyborg with an extensive scanning suite and weapons database inside your head, when someone points a gun at you that looks awful real with the intent of robbing you (and possibly killing you out of spite or to eliminate witnesses) then you don't stop to consider his feelings.

But yes, the circumstances would kind of determine how things go.

If he shot the robber in the process of the robbery, then that qualifies as self defense. I'm not happy that someone had to die, but..

On the other hand, if he shot the guy in the back while he was running out of the store, he should be prosecuted. I don't like people in general, but I think someone's life, even the life of a criminal, is worth more than whatever would be in a register at Baskin Robin's.

Man, if I was going to rob a creamery, I would be stealing ice cream.

What kind of idiot robs a Baskin Robins? Seriously, one less turd in the gene pool.

What kind of idiot robs a Baskin Robins?

According to the article, a (former) relapsed armed robbery addict.

According to the article, a (former) relapsed armed robbery addict.

An Armed Robbery addict? Don't suppose theres a 12 step program for that.

If only he had gotten the concealed carry permit, he would have been fine. Those are useful things. Personally, I'm pro-gun rights, but I also believe in registration. Besides, the Castle Law has often been extended to one's place of business. As long as the robber wasn't fleeing...

:mp5:

According to the article, a (former) relapsed armed robbery addict.

Any store, convenience, liquor, ice cream, carries very little cash on hand at any given time, couple hundred bucks at most. Hell let's figure they got a thousand sitting there waiting to be gift wrapped.

Now, penalty for armed robbery is usually a decade or more behind bars. Or a clerk may cap your ass. A simple cost benefit analysis shows it's absolutely not worth it to rob a store. Hell even a bank isn't worth it.

Relapsing into armed robbery, and using a realistic looking pellet gun to commit armed robbery. And the manager had a real gun to defend himself and the property with.

I call the end result natural selection at work.

Indeed.:)

Given the recidivism of the deceased, he was of little value to society. Why quibble over legalistic subtleties when all still alive are winners?

Unless you're a Terminator cyborg with an extensive scanning suite and weapons database inside your head, when someone points a gun at you that looks awful real with the intent of robbing you (and possibly killing you out of spite or to eliminate witnesses) then you don't stop to consider his feelings.

Huh? How'd you infer all that from my post? It's the when and where of the shooting that makes the difference, not whether the threat was real or fake.

Huh? How'd you infer all that from my post? It's the when and where of the shooting that makes the difference, not whether the threat was real or fake.

I did say that the exact circumstances of the shooting would determine how the situation ought to be handled. And that bit you quoted was a cute comment on how the average human being does not have time to be civil and polite in asking the robber if the gun is real or not when determining how to react to a perceived threat.

Relapsing into armed robbery, and using a realistic looking pellet gun to commit armed robbery. And the manager had a real gun to defend himself and the property with.

I call the end result natural selection at work.

Apparently you don't know what natural selection is.

Apparently you don't know what natural selection is.

Stupid people dying, smart people living.

Just a little pine-sol to the ole Genepool.

And that bit you quoted was a cute comment on how the average human being does not have time to be civil and polite in asking the robber if the gun is real or not when determining how to react to a perceived threat.

Still, I don't see how it relates to my post at all.

Still, I don't see how it relates to my post at all.

Because at the time I was under the impression you seemed to question if the manager had the right to fire without asking question or taking time to calm the robber down.

The story said he shot the robber "after" he robbed the store. So, this manager is probably up the creek. Still, I would imagine he will be charged with the lowest crime possible, maybe even involuntary manslaughter. If I were a prosecutor and got this stupid case, that's all I'd go for. And if I was a defense attorney, that's the max I would want my client to plead to. He was just robbed at gunpoint, he was understandably angry and a little bit afraid, so he shot the guy.

But I agree with most of the other posters. If the guy was still facing him with the gun, the manager should walk (and probably will).

USA needs more robocops to protect people.

The story said he shot the robber "after" he robbed the store. So, this manager is probably up the creek. Still, I would imagine he will be charged with the lowest crime possible, maybe even involuntary manslaughter. If I were a prosecutor and got this stupid case, that's all I'd go for. And if I was a defense attorney, that's the max I would want my client to plead to. He was just robbed at gunpoint, he was understandably angry and a little bit afraid, so he shot the guy.

But I agree with most of the other posters. If the guy was still facing him with the gun, the manager should walk (and probably will).

Well let's throw him a party then.

Well let's throw him a party then.

That was me doing my best defense attorney... that is what I would argue if I was this guy.

I say Good for him defending his store, he should face charges for now having a CCW, but he shouldn't face charges on manslaughter or attempted murder on a thug that'd probably shoot him if he didn't have that gun.

Baskin-Robbins newest flavor: Hot Lead.

More related information:

http://www.wtvr.com/Global/story.asp?s=7044668

Also, the C.A. (Commonwealth Attorney, our equivalent to a D.A.) says that he will have a determination of whether or not he will submit charges to the grand jury by the end of the week.

People celebrating someone's death is unpleasant. :(

http://www.wric.com/Global/story.asp?S=7140942

The C.A. is seeking an indictment from the Grand Jury on the manager for "Reckless discharge of a weapon".

I bet the robber'll show up on Darwin Awards.

I think this guy got what was coming to him. Also, it seems to me you ought to be allowed to kill someone for stealing your stuff- even if they have already stolen it- property in many cases is your livelihood and no one has a right to take your life.

People celebrating someone's death is unpleasant. :(
I agree.
I bet the robber'll show up on Darwin Awards.
So you don't know what the Darwin Awards is?

Good.

If the scumbag pointed a gun (or, obviously a look-alike gun) at the manager, or at anyone else in the store, or made any kind of threat toward the people in the store while displaying a gun, the manager was well within his basic human rights to shoot him.

If he had a gun concealed without a permit, he should probably be prosecuted for that, but it should not in any way affect his liability for using deadly force in self defense.

http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/news.apx.-content-articles-RTD-2007-09-28-0253.html

This link has a much more complete story of what happened at the store based on the evidence.

To sum up, the robber was hit by two shots, one in his hand and the other in his back. The manager fired three shots within the store and evidence shows eight more shots fired outside the store. Although the shot to the back killed the robber, the charge against the manager is reckless discharge since it is not certain whether a shot fired from inside or outside the store killed him.