NationStates Jolt Archive

To wipe out the African people apparently:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7014335.stm

The head of the Catholic Church in Mozambique has told the BBC he believes some European-made condoms are infected with HIV deliberately.

Maputo Archbishop Francisco Chimoio claimed some anti-retroviral drugs were also infected "in order to finish quickly the African people".

I'm actually glad he's a priest, at least he's not breeding. Though he is spreading his stupidity even without spreading his genes.

Religions will stoop to anything these days.

What an idiot. I'm glad it isn't something I learned from the American news itself, because the $200 billion plea for Iraq from the Bush administration gets the berth it deserves.

That is insanely cruel. I want to hit my head against a wall now.


EDIT: actually, I think its a lie.

:headbang:

Just when one thinks the actions of Catholic church officials in Africa can't get any stupider...

Only in Amer.. Africa.

LOL

One of the first things they said in sex ed is that hiv does not survive in the air. And for it to be inside the latex would require it survive production which I'm sure at some point means intense heat.

In July of 2004, I wrote a blog post on this subject. I posted a copy of it on NSG, I think, but the search function is hating on me right now. So here's a cut-and-paste:

"Relying on condoms is like betting on your own death," said Cardinal Alfonso Lopez Trujillo, the Vatican's spokesperson on family affairs. "The Aids virus is roughly 450 times smaller than the spermatozoon. The spermatozoon can easily pass through the 'net' that is formed by the condom," he says. Catholic Bishops and Cardinals are, at this very moment, repeating this idea across four continents, at the express direction of the Vatican. Some priests even state that condoms are laced with AIDS, according to AIDS activists in Kenya. Nairobi Archbishop Raphael Ndingi Nzeki says "AIDS... has grown so fast because of the availability of condoms." The Vatican has issued statements refusing to disagree or correct this statement.

A recent BBC program, "Sex and the Holy City," even shows footage of a Catholic nun telling her HIV-positive choir master not to use latex condoms with his wife because "the virus can pass through." Far from denying this footage, the Vatican has reissued its support for such statements.

The National Institutes of Health constructed a panel to examine the effectiveness of condoms in preventing disease, and included anti-condom advocates on that panel. According to its report from 2001, latex condoms are impermiable to even the smallest pathogens, and HIV is actually one of the STDs that condoms are most effective against. Scientific research by groups such as the U.S. National Institutes of Health has found "intact condoms... are essentially impermeable" to HIV, and that "condoms provide a highly effective barrier to transmission" of HIV. The World Health Organization reacted with horror to the Vatican's claims, immediately denouncing such misinformation and saying it was especially deadly to perpetuate such ideas when the world is facing a global pandemic that has already killed 20 million people.

The Vatican's Trujillo responded to these points: "They are wrong about that... this is an easily recognizable fact."

So yeah. The Catholic Church tells deliberate lies which kill people. They spend money spreading lies, which they know are lies because they've been told so many, many times over. They spread these lies even though they know (because they've been told many, many times over) that the lies kill people. The Catholic Church funds murderers, in other words. As well as rapists and child molesters, but I guess we're all supposed to forget about that unpleasantness these days.

I know a lot of good people who also happen to be Catholic, and I don't begrudge them their individual faith, but the Catholic Church is fucking evil. Far as I'm concerned, anybody who donates money to the Catholic Church is helping to fund genocide.

What? Christians, lying to increase their power over an area of the world stricken by poverty? Surely not!

Thank god I'm an atheist :D

It must be nice to live with one's head in the sand. Is there like a competition between different clergy to come up with new lows in stupidity?

Couldn't we set some lions on him or something?

That would be nice.

So yeah. The Catholic Church tells deliberate lies which kill people. They spend money spreading lies, which they know are lies because they've been told so many, many times over. They spread these lies even though they know (because they've been told many, many times over) that the lies kill people. The Catholic Church funds murderers, in other words. As well as rapists and child molesters, but I guess we're all supposed to forget about that unpleasantness these days.

I know a lot of good people who also happen to be Catholic, and I don't begrudge them their individual faith, but the Catholic Church is fucking evil. Far as I'm concerned, anybody who donates money to the Catholic Church is helping to fund genocide.

'Tis kind of why I don't really consider myself fully "Catholic" anymore. Until there's some kind of "Vatican III", in which the current leadership is rotated out and new leaders, who are willing to be flexible and will OWN UP to the missdeeds of the past...yeah...

African reasoning:

so you can either use a condom that may be infected with aids or have sex with a woman who will probably have aids

One of the first things they said in sex ed is that hiv does not survive in the air.

what a good start there :p

"HIV is obviously present in the body as well" would be a good argument to make

The Catholic Church tells deliberate lies which kill people. They spend money spreading lies, which they know are lies because they've been told so many, many times over. They spread these lies even though they know (because they've been told many, many times over) that the lies kill people. The Catholic Church funds murderers, in other words. As well as rapists and child molesters, but I guess we're all supposed to forget about that unpleasantness these days.Wtf are you talking about?

Originally Posted by Bottle View Post
The Catholic Church tells deliberate lies which kill people. They spend money spreading lies, which they know are lies because they've been told so many, many times over. They spread these lies even though they know (because they've been told many, many times over) that the lies kill people. The Catholic Church funds murderers, in other words. As well as rapists and child molesters, but I guess we're all supposed to forget about that unpleasantness these days.

:confused::eek:

I think it is time to create a new crime against humanity: aiding and abetting an epidemic, defined as any of the following:
1. Deliberately infecting others with the disease.
2. Deliberately preventing individuals from recieving medicine or protective measures against the disease.
3. Deliberately encouraging others to take measures that will put them at increased risk from the disease.

Of course, simply delaying a shipment of vaccines, because the aid group doesn't have their paperwork in order isn't aiding and abetting an epidemic. You have to be trying to prevent people from recieving this aid.

Once this is considered a crime against humanity, we can arrest these bishops. While you're at it, there are some Nigerian clerics who have been discouraging the use of the polio vaccine. Bag them too.

la única iglesia que ilumina es la que arde.

Archbishop Chimoio told our reporter that abstention, not condoms, was the best way to fight HIV/Aids.
No argument there.
"Condoms are not sure because I know that there are two countries in Europe, they are making condoms with the virus on purpose," he alleged, refusing to name the countries.
Um...okay, that's possible, but the refusal to name the countries is suspicious.
"They want to finish with the African people. This is the programme. They want to colonise until up to now. If we are not careful we will finish in one century's time."
Okay, he's off it. It makes some sense to say birth control could have been infected (although it would be impossible with HIV), but as part of Europe's "master plan?" I doubt it.
Our correspondent says the archbishop is well respected in the country and the Catholic Church played a leading role in sponsoring the 1992 peace deal that ended a 16-year civil war.
Eh, at least he's not all bad.
Some 17.5% of Mozambicans are Catholic.

That's probably a good thing. People will be less likely to listen.

What? Christians, lying to increase their power over an area of the world stricken by poverty? Surely not!

Just like the janjaweed in Sudan, yes?

Wtf are you talking about?

I think what Bottle is trying to say is:
The Catholic Church tells deliberate lies which kill people. They spend money spreading lies, which they know are lies because they've been told so many, many times over. They spread these lies even though they know (because they've been told many, many times over) that the lies kill people. The Catholic Church funds murderers, in other words. As well as rapists and child molesters, but I guess we're all supposed to forget about that unpleasantness these days.

The Catholic Church, in telling Africans that condoms are infected, is encouraging them not to use condoms, which is a deadly ploy. This leads to more people becoming infected than would if they used condoms (which are, of course NOT infected, this is the deliberate lie to which Bottle refers).

This makes the Catholic Church murderers.

Other threads on this very forum discuss the fact that the Catholic Church also not only contains within its ranks but SUPPORTS rapists and child molesters.

It is also true that the Catholic Church expects its members to do as told with regard to these issues.

That is what Bottle was saying, and I thought she did so rather clearly and succinctly.

That is what Bottle was saying, and I thought she did so rather clearly and succinctly.

i prefer buenaventura durutti's more general formulation

i prefer buenaventura durutti's more general formulation

"The Only Church That Illuminates Is A Burning Church."

That one?

First Peter Akinola, now this guy.

Is is just me or have a lot of African bishops since Desmond Tutu tend to be leaning over the deep end?

Mother Theresa is somewhere smiling.

First Peter Akinola, now this guy.

Is is just me or have a lot of African bishops since Desmond Tutu tend to be leaning over the deep end?

I think the oppressive poverty and disease has gotten to everyone on the continent.

This is what social conservatism does to the mind people, it ain't pretty, do you want to end up like these Bishops?...

This is what social conservatism does to the mind people, it ain't pretty, do you want to end up like these Bishops?...

What in the sam hell does this have to do with social conservatism?

I think what Bottle is trying to say is:


The Catholic Church, in telling Africans that condoms are infected, is encouraging them not to use condoms, which is a deadly ploy. This leads to more people becoming infected than would if they used condoms (which are, of course NOT infected, this is the deliberate lie to which Bottle refers).

This makes the Catholic Church murderers.

Other threads on this very forum discuss the fact that the Catholic Church also not only contains within its ranks but SUPPORTS rapists and child molesters.

It is also true that the Catholic Church expects its members to do as told with regard to these issues.

That is what Bottle was saying, and I thought she did so rather clearly and succinctly.

Don't use condoms.
There, I just killed at least four of you.

Actually, so far it seems like saying the Church said this is untrue. A bishop said it, but I have yet to hear of anyone higher up (or even lower down) agreeing. It's like saying America doesn't like broccoli.

What in the sam hell does this have to do with social conservatism?

Only in the minds of the unimaginative.

Ok..... I'm kind of surprised...

Who ever said that is an idiot. (Referring to the Church's comments)

...

Can I say "idiot" loud enough?


Maybe the Church isn't the perpetrator, but whoever thought of spreading that lie deserves at least a few years in jail!

This would reduce the condom usage among the african population; = more babies; = more poverty.... =(

Don't use condoms.
There, I just killed at least four of you.

Actually, so far it seems like saying the Church said this is untrue. A bishop said it, but I have yet to hear of anyone higher up (or even lower down) agreeing. It's like saying America doesn't like broccoli.


Heh I can understand that some christians would like to protect negative press about their faith. Really though this is old news, and news that you can find in any newspapers(just do a search) The catholic churches stance on the use of condoms in Africa really is shit, again though don't take my word for it, google it for yourself. The one that really gets me and remember this is sanctioned by the last pope, and not recinded by the prersent pope so must be taken as the officiacl line of the catholic church, is that the HIV virus is smaller than the micro holes in the latex used to make condoms.

Which is utter crap, as scientist after scientist has produced the evidance needed to proclaim it crap.

The truth is that the catholic has been for a very, very, very long time full of crap, and can't really be said to represent Jesus' teachings in anything. I know plenty of catholics that have turned their backs on their church, if not their religoin, and I can't say I blame them, nope not at all.

To wipe out the African people apparently:

Oh yes, like we europeans need AIDS to wipe out the africans. Historically, wiping out populations is one of the things we're best at - and even before AIDS and condoms.
Ask the Mayas, or the Carthaginians, or the Cree.

I'm actually glad he's a priest, at least he's not breeding.

I wouldn't be so sure... *hides from catholic outrage*

Wtf are you talking about?
I made it quite clear in my post. The Catholic Church deliberately lies about AIDS and HIV, knowing that these lies will lead to the spread of a deadly disease for which there is no cure. They do this with full awareness of the fact that the people they are deceiving will probably never have another source for accurate information, nor will those people have access to treatments for the illness that they will contract as a result of the Church's lies.

As for the rest of it, the Church's aiding and sheltering of rapists and child molesters has been well documented. For a while it was making national news in the US, but the intensity has since died down.

I think what Bottle is trying to say is:


The Catholic Church, in telling Africans that condoms are infected, is encouraging them not to use condoms, which is a deadly ploy. This leads to more people becoming infected than would if they used condoms (which are, of course NOT infected, this is the deliberate lie to which Bottle refers).

This makes the Catholic Church murderers.

Other threads on this very forum discuss the fact that the Catholic Church also not only contains within its ranks but SUPPORTS rapists and child molesters.

It is also true that the Catholic Church expects its members to do as told with regard to these issues.

That is what Bottle was saying, and I thought she did so rather clearly and succinctly.
Yep.

I can always tell when I'm on the right path, because the people who don't like what I have to say will start frantically playing dumb, while people who either agree or are neutral will be somehow able to understand me perfectly...

Don't use condoms.
There, I just killed at least four of you.

Four of "us"?

"We" are all people with access to computers and the internet. I doubt that any of "us" live in crushing poverty, in regions where the only source of information about AIDS/HIV and contraception is from missionaries or non-profit organizations.

Also, you simply said "don't use condoms." The Church LIES. They say, "Condoms don't protect against HIV." Condoms do protect against HIV. They say, "Condoms cause AIDS." Condoms don't cause AIDS. They say, "Condoms are treated with HIV virus because whitey wants to kill you all." Condoms are not treated with HIV, and the people distributing condoms in Africa are there specifically because they want to save lives.

Let's just get right down to the heart of it:

If the Church is right in preaching that condoms are bad, then why do they have to lie? If the Church is being principled and moral, why do they have to lie? If the Church cares about the people they are talking to, and wants what is best for those people, why do they have to lie?


Actually, so far it seems like saying the Church said this is untrue. A bishop said it, but I have yet to hear of anyone higher up (or even lower down) agreeing. It's like saying America doesn't like broccoli.
Please read my original post in this topic. The Vatican has specifically supported the promulgation of these lies about condoms and HIV. The Vatican is 100% aware that these lies have been told for upwards of a decade. Even if you want to make believe that they don't actively support them, I'd say a decade is more than enough time for the Pope to say, "Knock it off, assholes." He's quick to do that when a Catholic church or Catholic leader voices support for gay marriage or women in the clergy, after all, so you'd think he might bestir himself to say something about lies that are killing millions of people.

It's like saying America doesn't like broccoli.

No sane people like broccoli! Not saying that America is sane, though.:p

I dont see what the big deal about HIV in Africa is. Even the National Health Minister of South Africa says it can be cured with lemon, beetroot and garlic. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=401485&in_page_id=1811

I believe Mozambique now holds the record for wildest conspiracy theories?

Surely ideas of alien landings and Aera 51 coverups pale in comparasin to Europe attempting to wipe out Africa through HIV infected condoms.

I know you guys clearly all think the iberal west will produce the answer to life in some form of Capitalist inspired sex-ed leaflet, but you are talking aload of rubbish. The adoption of the ABC policy in Africa (Abstain -but if you can't- Be Faithful-but if you can't- use a condom) is an utter load of rubbish. Condoms are between 98-93% effective (depending on who you lidten to). Now if you tell people-go out, have sex with whoever and whenever you fancy- they will. But one time, they'll forget the condom. One time it'll break or they won't use it correctly. Then you're srewed. How can you ever hope to atain perfection (a world without STDs) if you're methods do not teach perfection-abstinence, the only 100% effective method. If we Catholics can do it, you can do it too:upyours:

I know you guys clearly all think the iberal west will produce the answer to life in some form of Capitalist inspired sex-ed leaflet, but you are talking aload of rubbish. The adoption of the ABC policy in Africa (Abstain -but if you can't- Be Faithful-but if you can't- use a condom) is an utter load of rubbish. Condoms are between 98-93% effective (depending on who you lidten to). Now if you tell people-go out, have sex with whoever and whenever you fancy- they will. But one time, they'll forget the condom. One time it'll break or they won't use it correctly. Then you're srewed. How can you ever hope to atain perfection (a world without STDs) if you're methods do not teach perfection-abstinence, the only 100% effective method. If we Catholics can do it, you can do it too:upyours:

Bloody Hell! Second post in as well, congrats to ya!

Although it does bear saying that of all the catholics I know, the wimmin, well they act most un-catholic!* nudge nudge*(know wot I mean)

Bloody Hell! Second post in as well, congrats to ya!

... upyours smiley.

The upyours smiley.

*cries*

As is always brought up, I'll beat someone to the punch and say that abstinence being the perfect method because it's '100% effective' is silly, as one may as well say the best way of preventing car accidents is to not drive.

... upyours smiley.

The upyours smiley.

*cries*

As is always brought up, I'll beat someone to the punch and say that abstinence being the perfect method because it's '100% effective' is silly, as one may as well say the best way of preventing car accidents is to not drive.

Well it is true that the best way to avoid car accidents is not to drive. The thing in common with both of these examples is that, if employed it would mean the end of drivers, and of catholics. So all in all I advocate it!