NationStates Jolt Archive

...Not quite sure what prompted this...may have been the threads on Ahmadinejad...and not just what he said (still a douchbag), but what comments people are making.

But I'm just getting real sick of people getting on soapboxes, and yelling the tired old "We are better than you, you are inferior because of (insert whatnot here)."

People, look around you. Sure you have some good points about you. But you have your flaws too. And not everyone is inferior to you.

Oh, and don't pull that nationality/religion bullshit out of your hat either. Just because one person in one large group said (blank) doesn't mean they all agree...and just because you a (blank) or a part of (blank), dosen't mean your are inherently better off because of it.

...Jesus...!

...Again, I don't know what prompted this. And I am likely missing some factor that could explain everything (if you have it, please post it). I also apologize for the disjointed nature of my rant...

...I used to be so eloquent...

*sigh*

Take my rantings as you will. I need to do some work.

...Not quite sure what prompted this...may have been the threads on Ahmadinejad...and not just what he said (still a douchbag), but what comments people are making.

But I'm just getting real sick of people getting on soapboxes, and yelling the tired old "We are better than you, you are inferior because of (insert whatnot here)."

People, look around you. Sure you have some good points about you. But you have your flaws too. And not everyone is inferior to you.

Oh, and don't pull that nationality/religion bullshit out of your hat either. Just because one person in one large group said (blank) doesn't mean they all agree...and just because you a (blank) or a part of (blank), dosen't mean your are inherently better off because of it.

...Jesus...!

...Again, I don't know what prompted this. And I am likely missing some factor that could explain everything (if you have it, please post it). I also apologize for the disjointed nature of my rant...

...I used to be so eloquent...

*sigh*

Take my rantings as you will. I need to do some work.

Please clarify and elaborate, then you will receive my response.

Are you saying people think all Muslims are like this what's-his-name?

Please clarify and elaborate, then you will receive my response.

Are you saying people think all Muslims are like this what's-his-name?

Well that certainly has someting to do with it...

Like I said, I'm not quite sure. And I am usually more specific in my ramblings.

I've just been noticing, and I admit I may be wrong, a distinct lack of humility around me. Not just simple overconfidence or self-absorbedness, but a kind-of "derogatory atmosphere". Pointing out the flaws in other people, perhaps in order to detract from their own faults and problems...to make themselves feel bigger than they really are.

Take...Ahmadinejad...for instance. He tries to make himslef all high and mighty, by pointing out supposed flaws in other cultures. And the sad thing is, people will look at this fuckwit and think "Oh...they're all the same..."

This is by far not the only example of this sort of "derogatory jingoism" that I've seen...but it is an example...











...I must sound like a headcase! :P

Welcome to the human condition.

Considering the people of Iran don't exactly have a choice in the matter, I'd be hard pressed to believe anywhere near a significant segment of the population shares views with the nutjobs in power.

I'm certain of that...I was just digging for examples.

Considering the people of Iran don't exactly have a choice in the matter, I'd be hard pressed to believe anywhere near a significant segment of the population shares views with the nutjobs in power.

Well that certainly has someting to do with it...

Like I said, I'm not quite sure. And I am usually more specific in my ramblings.

I've just been noticing, and I admit I may be wrong, a distinct lack of humility around me. Not just simple overconfidence or self-absorbedness, but a kind-of "derogatory atmosphere". Pointing out the flaws in other people, perhaps in order to detract from their own faults and problems...to make themselves feel bigger than they really are.

Take...Ahmadinejad...for instance. He tries to make himslef all high and mighty, by pointing out supposed flaws in other cultures. And the sad thing is, people will look at this fuckwit and think "Oh...they're all the same..."

This is by far not the only example of this sort of "derogatory jingoism" that I've seen...but it is an example...











...I must sound like a headcase! :P

That's correct. I look at this guy, then look at all humans and think "oh, they're all the same."

by Leslie Fish

Chorus:
Better than who? (better than who)
The scores aren't in. (the scores aren't in)
Let the gods of evolution say who'll win.
Better at what? (better at what)
In what way? (in what way)
Let the gods of evolution have their say.

I'm better than you at shooting,
You're better than me with a knife.
Who's to say which tool works better when the punks come for your life?
You're better than me at karate,
I'm better than you with a stick.
Do you really want to walk through the slums tonight, let the old gods take their pick?

(Chorus)

I'm better at breathing pollution,
You're better at avoiding colds.
Which of us will last the longer in the worst the future holds?
You're better at surviving bug bites,
I'm better at eating junk.
If civilization sinks tomorrow, which of us would be sunk?

(Chorus)

I'm better at training horses,
You're better at fixing cars.
Which will be in more demand at the next turn of the stars?
You're better at hunting rabbits,
I'm better at making fire.
Which of those skills can better fulfill what tomorrow might require?

(Chorus)

I'm better at growing gardens,
You're better at counting cash.
Which will serve us best tomorrow, the money or the stash?
You're better at working computers,
I'm better at making a song.
Which will put more food on the table if the world goes right or wrong?

(musical interlude)
You're better at playing dominance,
I'm better at making friends.
What works better, whether or not civilization ends?
Nobody knows the future,
Or what skill betters the odds.
So it's best to say we're all born equal and leave the rest to the gods.

(Chorus)

Let the gods of evolution have their say

When NationStates forumers 'get off their high horse' and all argue in a purely political and non-prejudiced manner, is when Christians and Atheists 'have a chat' and decide that they actually don't hate each other.

When NationStates forumers 'get off their high horse' and all argue in a purely political and non-prejudiced manner, is when Christians and Atheists 'have a chat' and decide that they actually don't hate each other.

... for the record, I don't hate Atheists, Agnostics, Muslims, Buddists, Wiccans, Pastafarians, Unicornians (is that what IPU followers call themselves?) or whatever.

That's correct. I look at this guy, then look at all humans and think "oh, they're all the same."

No! Not at all! GAH!

...Oh...where did I go wrong...

When NationStates forumers 'get off their high horse' and all argue in a purely political and non-prejudiced manner, is when Christians and Atheists 'have a chat' and decide that they actually don't hate each other.

...But I don't hate atheists...

*nifty little jig*

Yeah...that's sort of what I was getting at.

*sigh*

OKAY! All cards on table:

I'm simply tired of the old time arrogance. I know its practically built into our genes at this point, but I just want to know if there is anyone still out there who CAN look at all the factors and DOESN'T judge off-hand.

... for the record, I don't hate Atheists, Agnostics, Muslims, Buddists, Wiccans, Pastafarians, Unicornians (is that what IPU followers call themselves?) or whatever.

JEWS?

JEWS? yep, no hatred for them.

yep, no hatred for them.

Whew. *wipes brow*

...But I don't hate atheists...
... for the record, I don't hate Atheists, Agnostics, Muslims, Buddists, Wiccans, Pastafarians, Unicornians (is that what IPU followers call themselves?) or whatever.

Nor did I say you did. Which is why NationStates forumers should indeed 'get off their high horse.' This illustrates my point: You interpreted my comment as meaning that you hate atheists, even though you don't, no? You took offense, even mildly, no? So why should one draw ridiculous conclusions based on one's political or religious affiliation? You do nothing to improve your argument or point, receive the dislike of others, and illustrate the fact that you have no idea what you're talking about (namely, your argument and views.) (I do not mean 'you' or 'your' personally.)

by Leslie Fish

Chorus:
Better than who? (better than who)
The scores aren't in. (the scores aren't in)
Let the gods of evolution say who'll win.
Better at what? (better at what)
In what way? (in what way)
Let the gods of evolution have their say.

I'm better than you at shooting,
You're better than me with a knife.
Who's to say which tool works better when the punks come for your life?
You're better than me at karate,
I'm better than you with a stick.
Do you really want to walk through the slums tonight, let the old gods take their pick?

(Chorus)

I'm better at breathing pollution,
You're better at avoiding colds.
Which of us will last the longer in the worst the future holds?
You're better at surviving bug bites,
I'm better at eating junk.
If civilization sinks tomorrow, which of us would be sunk?

(Chorus)

I'm better at training horses,
You're better at fixing cars.
Which will be in more demand at the next turn of the stars?
You're better at hunting rabbits,
I'm better at making fire.
Which of those skills can better fulfill what tomorrow might require?

(Chorus)

I'm better at growing gardens,
You're better at counting cash.
Which will serve us best tomorrow, the money or the stash?
You're better at working computers,
I'm better at making a song.
Which will put more food on the table if the world goes right or wrong?

(musical interlude)
You're better at playing dominance,
I'm better at making friends.
What works better, whether or not civilization ends?
Nobody knows the future,
Or what skill betters the odds.
So it's best to say we're all born equal and leave the rest to the gods.

(Chorus)

Let the gods of evolution have their say

*Wipes tears from eyes*
That, my friend, was a beautiful thing

Nor did I say you did. Which is why NationStates forumers should indeed 'get off their high horse.' This illustrates my point: You interpreted my comment as meaning that you hate atheists, even though you don't, no? You took offense, even mildly, no? So why should one draw ridiculous conclusions based on one's political or religious affiliation? You do nothing to improve your argument or point, receive the dislike of others, and illustrate the fact that you have no idea what you're talking about (namely, your argument and views.) (I do not mean 'you' or 'your' personally.)


fyi, never took it as "you"=Me. but I did take it this way... When NationStates forumers 'get off their high horse' and all argue in a purely political and non-prejudiced manner, is when Christians and Atheists 'have a chat' and decide that they actually don't hate each other.
Meaning when NS Forumers argue in a civil manner, THEN christians and Atheists will talk and find they don't hate each other.

So my saying I (as a Christian) don't hate Athiests, and never have means that according to you (Laterale) everyone on NSG is arguing in a "purely Political and Non-Prejudiced manner." ;)

in other words... I'm just being facetious.

... for the record, I don't hate Atheists, Agnostics, Muslims, Buddists, Wiccans, Pastafarians, Unicornians (is that what IPU followers call themselves?) or whatever.

My sentiments exactly. I hate individuals, not groups.

My sentiments exactly. I hate individuals, not groups.If a group is defined by a common characteristic of its member individuals and that characteristic is despicable or hate worthy it's ok to hate all the individuals in that group and thus the group as such.

If a group is defined by a common characteristic of its member individuals and that characteristic is despicable or hate worthy it's ok to hate all the individuals in that group and thus the group as such.

but the characteristic of that group may not be the characteristic of the individuals hated.

thus in a group, you will have some you hate, and others you don't.

thus it's still not the group that you hate, but the individuals.

but the characteristic of that group may not be the characteristic of the individuals hated.but if the individuals' *common* characteristic is what defines the group?
e.g every Christians' belief that Yeshua is a (the) messiah, because that's what defines Christianity (and hence the word) ?

but if the individuals' *common* characteristic is what defines the group?
e.g every Christians' belief that Yeshua is a (the) messiah, because that's what defines Christianity (and hence the word) ?

so let's follow up with your example.

is the fact that Christians believe that Yeshua is the messiah is what you HATE about that group of people?

or is it those who take a very aggressive manner in their sharing of their belief that you HATE?

or is it those who attempt to force others who do not share their beliefs to live the life Yeshua says one should live that you HATE?

so let's follow up with your example.

a) is the fact that Christians believe that Yeshua is the messiah is what you hate about that group of people?

b) or is it those who take a very aggressive manner in their sharing of their belief that you hate?

c) or is it those who attempt to force others who do not share their beliefs to live the life Yeshua says one should live that you hate?

primarily a), but as a *consequence* b) and c) as well.

primarily a), but as a *consequence* b) and c) as well.

Now out of three individuals, how can you tell who is the Christian if none do not follow up with B and/or C? (Yes, there are Christians who do not preach to people, nor are there Chrisitans who believe that Laws of Man should follow the Christian teachings.)

Now out of three individuals, how can you tell who is the Christian if none do not follow up with B and/or C? (Yes, there are Christians who do not preach to people, nor are there Chrisitans who believe that Laws of Man should follow the Christian teachings.)Well, there are no Christians not believing in Yeshua being Christ, are there? And in everything that would be a precondition for this belief, right?

Well, there are no Christians not believing in Yeshua being Christ, are there? And in everything that would be a precondition for this belief, right?

nice try,

I like how you didn't answer the question.

nice try,

I like how you didn't answer the question.The question how to determine who is a christian if he keeps his thoughts to himself? The answer is that I don't have to determine that at all. I can indeed despise people with a certain mindset without particularly knowing who they are.

The question how to determine who is a christian if he keeps his thoughts to himself? The answer is that I don't have to determine that at all. I can indeed despise people with a certain mindset without particularly knowing who they are.
I see.

Point. you automatically assume that ALL Christians preach to others and force others to live according to their beliefs.

Point. You use those two characteristics as your litmus test as to who is a Christian or not. (See above point, forming a circular reasoning for your example.)

So far, all you've shown in your example is hatred for a specific group of people within a larger group that share a common characteristic and no connection to the larger group that those people belong to.

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/johnnybmetal/not_this_shit_again.jpg

...Not quite sure what prompted this...may have been the threads on Ahmadinejad...and not just what he said (still a douchbag), but what comments people are making.

But I'm just getting real sick of people getting on soapboxes, and yelling the tired old "We are better than you, you are inferior because of (insert whatnot here)."

People, look around you. Sure you have some good points about you. But you have your flaws too. And not everyone is inferior to you.

Oh, and don't pull that nationality/religion bullshit out of your hat either. Just because one person in one large group said (blank) doesn't mean they all agree...and just because you a (blank) or a part of (blank), dosen't mean your are inherently better off because of it.

...Jesus...!

...Again, I don't know what prompted this. And I am likely missing some factor that could explain everything (if you have it, please post it). I also apologize for the disjointed nature of my rant...

...I used to be so eloquent...

*sigh*

Take my rantings as you will. I need to do some work.

I would say I agree. Ahmedinejad is an idiot, but steroetyping Iranians based off of him is just as idiotic. I should know, I am one.

If a group is defined by a common characteristic of its member individuals and that characteristic is despicable or hate worthy it's ok to hate all the individuals in that group and thus the group as such.

...

...I tend to think that hate itself is a bad thing.

I can indeed despise people with a certain mindset without particularly knowing who they are.

...I'm sorry dude, but I find that sort of thinking absolutely despicable...

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/f...shit_again.jpg

To my opening statements or to the resulting shitstorm? :p

To my opening statements or to the resulting shitstorm? :p

Probably to the exchange between me and UB. :p

Currently it's Muslims that have become the fashionable Guilt-Free Other in the 21st Century, surpassing even the tradional standby of the White Anglo-Saxon Protestant male. The contemptful, arrogant rants are no different than other such deplorable statements in history other than being topically aimed at Muslims rather than blacks, women, Jews, or homosexuals. As long as some distinct group is designated The Other, humanity will always see these kinds of statements spilled by people who feel safe in anonymity.

If and when space aliens come visit us, they'll take over the spot from Muslims, I guarantee it.

Point. you automatically assume that ALL Christians preach to others and force others to live according to their beliefs.Um, no, I don't.

Point. You use those two characteristics as your litmus test as to who is a Christian or not.Um, no, I don't.

So far, all you've shown in your example is hatred for a specific group of people within a larger group that share a common characteristic and no connection to the larger group that those people belong to.The common characteristic is the belief, and not the preaching or whatnot. If it is the defining common characteristic you reject there is no need to distinguish who in the group does what in particular.

...I tend to think that hate itself is a bad thing.Not necessarily. Although I agree that rejection should be based on reason, not on emotion (like hatred).

...I'm sorry dude, but I find that sort of thinking absolutely despicable...Why? Do I have to know what the particular Nazi does to reject him? (for Godwin's sake)

My horse is pretty high though..I could break an ankle if I got off it...plus how am I supposed to engage in joust style combat dismounted?

Coconuts.

My horse is pretty high though..I could break an ankle if I got off it...plus how am I supposed to engage in joust style combat dismounted?

Coconuts.

I live in the upper south/mid west area of the USA are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

Not necessarily. Although I agree that rejection should be based on reason, not on emotion (like hatred).

Why? Do I have to know what the particular Nazi does to reject him? (for Godwin's sake)

When you were talking about "Hating without knowing", were you talking about "rejection" or actual hate?

Rejection? Sure. Hate? No.

One might "reject", ignore or combat (should it ever actually COME to that point) a person, but I don't see how one can hate them, lest there be VERY good reason.

Talking from personal experience there are actually few things I hate, and most of them are material or ideas. I might get extremely PISSED OFF at someone and DISLIKE their actions and/or ideas (case in point: George W. Bush), but I can't say I hate him. And I tend to only do this with individuals.

Not that I'm Mr. Perfect, by any stretch of the immagination! :p

...And I'm honestly not going to touch Godwin with a ten-foot pole.

But that's just me. And I just find hate, especially indiscriminate hate, to be loathesome (ironic, no?).

...
...I tend to think that hate itself is a bad thing.

I'll never understand this.

Hate is a feeling. There is no such thing as a "bad" feeling or a "good" feeling. Emotions are emotions.

What could be "good" or "bad" is how we act on our feelings.

Hate can lead people to do profoundly good things. It can also lead them to do profoundly bad things. Same goes for love, or depression, or joy.

No emotion is a "bad thing" in and of itself. Shaming people for having "bad" feelings is pretty lame, IMO.

to OP,

I thought you were talking about the US.

The US has done far more harm to other peoples/countries including Iran, than Iran has done to others. (talking the last 50-100 years only. i don't want to go to 500 years ago. although that is when the current crisis of imperialism/colonialism started)



US
(once, always and forever)
declassified documents here:

The Iran Documentation Project
http://www.gwu.edu/%7Ensarchiv/iran/index.htm

I'll never understand this.

Hate is a feeling. There is no such thing as a "bad" feeling or a "good" feeling. Emotions are emotions.

What could be "good" or "bad" is how we act on our feelings.

Hate can lead people to do profoundly good things. It can also lead them to do profoundly bad things. Same goes for love, or depression, or joy.

No emotion is a "bad thing" in and of itself. Shaming people for having "bad" feelings is pretty lame, IMO.

You are right of course.

Hate is an emotion and I should not necessarily chastize someone for experiencing emotion.

But I nevertheless feel that hate, at least personally, does little good. NOT that I am above it: I would never be so arrogant. And using your correlation with love: you don't really love someone you don't know, do you?

And just curious: I would like to know what positives you think hate could have?

to OP,

I thought you were talking about the US.

The US has done far more harm to other peoples/countries including Iran, than Iran has done to others. (talking the last 50-100 years only. i don't want to go to 500 years ago. although that is when the current crisis of imperialism/colonialism started)

US
(once, always and forever)
declassified documents here:

The Iran Documentation Project
http://www.gwu.edu/%7Ensarchiv/iran/index.htm

Aw crap. It goes both ways!

SOME Americans think they're above everyone else, by virtue of the fact that they're American. They point to their positives, ignore their faults, and diminish the accomplishments of others, or decry them. Likewise, SOME Europeans, Asians, Africans, ALIENS(!) think they are better than everyone else because they're (blank), (blank) or (blank) (or because they're "not American", if you want to take that miserable route...).

...Sorry, I'll go to class now...

When you were talking about "Hating without knowing", were you talking about "rejection" or actual hate?Rejection. Hate would require an emotional attachment. But most folks don't make a distinction there anyways.

To my opening statements or to the resulting shitstorm? :p

The latter.