NationStates Jolt Archive

Cute thing. They tried to use the state to enforce their religion, they tried terrorism, they did everything. But we're not talking about Muslim extremists here. We're talking about Jewish ones. Jewish ones that have seats in the Israeli Parliament. Such "democratic" people...

http://www.presstelegram.com/news/ci_6972877

Hevra Kadisha's Morris Azoulai confirms Israel is so short of burial space that in some cemeteries graves are now stacked in layers. But he says the solution is not to cremate but to build more cemeteries.

I don't know why, but that paragraph struck me as one of the dumbest things I've read in the past few weeks.

Lalalalalala Holocaust lalalalalala six days war lalalalala

Yet another example of how the ultra-Orthodox have WAYYY too much power in Israel.

I don't know why, but that paragraph struck me as one of the dumbest things I've read in the past few weeks.

Reminds me of a NS Issue :D

What exactly is the point of this thread? I mean, what does this have to do with people thinking Islam is a violent religion?

Yet another example of how the ultra-Orthodox have WAYYY too much power in Israel.

Yup. And yet people go "Islam is a violent religion", "Islam mixes Church and State" and "Only Islam does so" without seeing faith-based proposed bans on gay marriage, faith-based abortion clinic bombings, faith-based proposed bans on crematoriums, faith-based arsons...

Maybe if the owner started hiring IDF retirees to guard the place, with liberal shoot to kill orders for criminal trespass. Israel often makes a lot of noise about how any killing their soldiers do is completely legal and justified. I want to see that applied to its own people by its own people.

And the best part? It would be within the laws of the place. Irony can't get any sweeter.

Besides, it's religious extremists. There's no limit to them, and any death of that sort is no loss when they commit crimes.

What exactly is the point of this thread? I mean, what does this have to do with people thinking Islam is a violent religion?

Just a thread for me to link to whenever DK (and other personalities) goes on a tirade about Islam being the scourge of the universe whenever a Muslim lifts a finger.

Are you comparing a country that is debating whether bodies should be cremated v. burried to ones who give money to people so they can strap on bombs and walk onto buses ?
:confused:

No, I'm comparing a country that has people IN POLITICS that would burn down crematoriums and force people to relinquish that choice to ones that practice violence in the name of religion. I'm pointing out that, just like SOME elements in the so-called Islamic countries are bad, SOME elements in Israel are just as bad. They wouldn't care if there were people inside that crematorium. They burned it down anyways.

Are you comparing a country that is debating whether bodies should be cremated v. burried to ones who give money to people so they can strap on bombs and walk onto buses ?
:confused:

Are you comparing a country that is debating whether bodies should be cremated v. burried to ones who give money to people so they can strap on bombs and walk onto buses ?
:confused:

They aren't debating anything oh master of obfuscation. They're burning down buildings that don't belong to them because they can't bear to have anyone with dissenting action.

In case you didn't realize, arson is a crime.

They aren't debating anything oh master of obfuscation. They're burning down buildings that don't belong to them because they can't bear to have anyone with dissenting action.

In case you didn't realize, arson is a crime.

Besides what I said, yes, what he said.

Cute thing. They tried to use the state to enforce their religion, they tried terrorism, they did everything. But we're not talking about Muslim extremists here. We're talking about Jewish ones. Jewish ones that have seats in the Israeli Parliament. Such "democratic" people...

http://www.presstelegram.com/news/ci_6972877

Terrorists have been Moslem, Jewish, Christian, and even Naturalists... It's more connected to extremism than anything else.

Terrorists have been Moslem, Jewish, Christian, and even Naturalists... It's more connected to extremism than anything else.

Exactly. That's my point with this thread, and that's my point whenever DK wants to treat Muslims as üntermenschen, and that's ALWAYS MY POINT.

Thanks. :)

...and this is why religion can be unhealthy. It makes people believe their faith and the rules that govern it are the be all and end all of the world and that somehow those who don't follow must be wrong and therefore are the target of their holier-than-thou wrath.

...and this is why religion can be unhealthy.

Not religion. Faith systems. I doubt you could call ALF a religion. Or heck, Scientology.

Anything that encourages explicit belief without evidence really, and asks that you act on that belief without respect of law or niggling little things, like other people.

Yup. And yet people go "Islam is a violent religion", "Islam mixes Church and State" and "Only Islam does so" without seeing faith-based proposed bans on gay marriage, faith-based abortion clinic bombings, faith-based proposed bans on crematoriums, faith-based arsons...

Who says that? Please tell me.

Not even the neocons and far rightists on NS (RO, New Mitanni etc...) say that only Islam does this.

I'm curious as to why whenever someone wants to do something that shows that its not just muslims that are "bad" why do they always use the jews as the counter example.?

anywho...religion when taken to its extreme is mankinds greatest fuck up regardless of what god or gods you follow

Who says that? Please tell me.

Not even the neocons and far rightists on NS (RO, New Mitanni etc...) say that only Islam does this.

But do you ever see them posting threads on violent actions committed by members of other religions?

Hell no.

I'm curious as to why whenever someone wants to do something that shows that its not just muslims that are "bad" why do they always use the jews as the counter example.?

I don't, most of my examples are about abortion clinic bombings, and other niceties done by so-called Christians. But let me help.

Most Indians are Hindu, and they threaten Pakistan time and again with the bomb. China is officially atheist and it makes life in Tibet unbearable. Some tribal religions in Africa involve sewing together a woman's labia.

Wiccans are sexy, though, and Loreena McKennit's music isn't bad.

But do you ever see them posting threads on violent actions committed by members of other religions?

Hell no.

HEY! YOU STOLE MY POINT, YOU NAUGHTY POINT-STEALER! :p

Cute thing. They tried to use the state to enforce their religion, they tried terrorism, they did everything. But we're not talking about Muslim extremists here. We're talking about Jewish ones. Jewish ones that have seats in the Israeli Parliament. Such "democratic" people...

http://www.presstelegram.com/news/ci_6972877

No one said 100% of terrorists were Muslim. The fact that well over 90% are is enough cause for concern.

No, I'm comparing a country that has people IN POLITICS that would burn down crematoriums and force people to relinquish that choice to ones that practice violence in the name of religion. I'm pointing out that, just like SOME elements in the so-called Islamic countries are bad, SOME elements in Israel are just as bad. They wouldn't care if there were people inside that crematorium. They burned it down anyways.

And some elements in America are bad. Every country has extreme politicians. Islamic countries just tend to have way more

And some elements in America are bad. Every country has extreme politicians. Islamic countries just tend to have way more

No. They don't. Which is why some politicians in Israel are currently expressing JOY over an ARSON without fear of backlash.

No one said 100% of terrorists were Muslim. The fact that well over 90% are is enough cause for concern.

I have some people from the IRA, the ETA, Chechnya, the abortion clinic bombers, Aum Shinkiryo, the Colombian ELN, the FARC, the Greek ELA, the Colombian AUC and the Shining Path (among others) that beg to differ.

I have some US-SPONSORED governments in the entirety of South America in the recent history that beg to differ even more.

I have more facts than you do, and I have more ability to convey them than you do. You would be wise not to play with me.

No. They don't. Which is why some politicians in Israel are currently expressing JOY over an ARSON without fear of backlash.

Israel is technically in the Middle-East. They're not Muslim, and they're the only Democracy over-there. Coincidence? I think not.

Israel is technically in the Middle-East. They're not Muslim, and they're the only Democracy over-there. Coincidence? I think not.

The entirety of South America was Christian when under dictatorial regimes. North Korea is atheist. Thailand is Buddhist. And Israel is a theocracy, with Ariel Sharon having even called for dissenters to be jailed.

Also:

From the CIA factbook:

List of Muslim democracies

The following list indicates those countries which are members of the Organization of the Islamic Conference and are either generally considered to be democratic or have substantial democratic elements in their system of government.

The percentage of Muslims in each country is sourced from CIA FactBook

* Albania (Europe) (70% Muslim)
* Algeria (North Africa) (99%)
* Bangladesh (South Asia) (83%)
* Comoros (South eastern Africa) (98%)
* Indonesia (South-East Asia) (88%)
* Iran (Middle-East) (98%)
* Kyrgyzstan (Central Asia) (75%)
* Lebanon (Middle-East) (59.7%)
* Nigeria (West Africa) (50%)
* Malaysia (South-East Asia) (62%)
* Mali (West Africa) (90%)
* Morocco (North Africa) (98.7%)
* Niger (West Africa) (80%)
* Senegal (West Africa) (94%)
* Sierra Leone (West Africa) (60%)
* Turkey (Europe / Middle East) (99.8%)
* Yemen (Arabian Peninsula - Asia / Middle East) (+90%)

Again, the CIA Factbook.

I pity you. You don't have the facts and you're up against me, of all people. I really, really pity you.

I said the only Democracy over there. Are Iran and Lebanon really Democracies?

Is Israel really one?

Is Turkey not one?

Is Lebanon really not one?

And by your "thought" - and I say that using the word VERY freely - the other Islamic countries wouldn't be democracies.

Israel is technically in the Middle-East. They're not Muslim, and they're the only Democracy over-there. Coincidence? I think not.


They're also the ones running an apartheid statelet just across their official borders, and slow-drip ethinically cleansing Arab East Jerusalem, so really, that sort of negates the "good" normally associated with the whole democracy thing.....

The entirety of South America was Christian when under dictatorial regimes. North Korea is atheist. Thailand is Buddhist. And Israel is a theocracy, with Ariel Sharon having even called for dissenters to be jailed.

Also:

From the CIA factbook:

List of Muslim democracies

The following list indicates those countries which are members of the Organization of the Islamic Conference and are either generally considered to be democratic or have substantial democratic elements in their system of government.

The percentage of Muslims in each country is sourced from CIA FactBook

* Albania (Europe) (70% Muslim)
* Algeria (North Africa) (99%)
* Bangladesh (South Asia) (83%)
* Comoros (South eastern Africa) (98%)
* Indonesia (South-East Asia) (88%)
* Iran (Middle-East) (98%)
* Kyrgyzstan (Central Asia) (75%)
* Lebanon (Middle-East) (59.7%)
* Nigeria (West Africa) (50%)
* Malaysia (South-East Asia) (62%)
* Mali (West Africa) (90%)
* Morocco (North Africa) (98.7%)
* Niger (West Africa) (80%)
* Senegal (West Africa) (94%)
* Sierra Leone (West Africa) (60%)
* Turkey (Europe / Middle East) (99.8%)
* Yemen (Arabian Peninsula - Asia / Middle East) (+90%)

Again, the CIA Factbook.

I pity you. You don't have the facts and you're up against me. I really, really pity you.

I said the only Democracy over there. Are Iran and Lebanon really Democracies?

In reality, lebanon is but not Iran.

There's also Turkey and Yemen. And whether Israel, with the amount of religious pressure in the congress, can be even considered a democracy, is STILL up to debate. However, yes, Lebanon is a democracy.

I said the only Democracy over there. Are Iran and Lebanon really Democracies?

In reality, lebanon is but not Iran.

In reality, lebanon is but not Iran.

Well, interesting. I stand corrected.

Well I did see a stat that claims nearly 80% of all terrorist attacks this day and age are perpetrated by young Muslim men.

They're also the ones running an apartheid statelet just across their official borders, and slow-drip ethinically cleansing Arab East Jerusalem, so really, that sort of negates the "good" normally associated with the whole democracy thing.....

"...ethnically cleansing"? Lies are the defecation of the imagination.

Why bother with such a thread?

You're trying to preach reason to the unreasonable.

Reminds me of a NS Issue :D

Indeed

I pity you. You don't have the facts and you're up against me, of all people. I really, really pity you.

Oh yes, we must fear you and your awesome debating power. Run in fear little children you're up against HIM.

Oh, and in case someone didn't understand it, something bad that the Israelis do does not negate at all from Islam being a violent or terrorist religion, or whatever else you said, in fact, it has nothing to do with Islam at all.

Only (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/only)

Let me just end this thread with an analogy.

Bob is a murderer, oppressor and religious fanatic. He's also imperialistic.


James punches someone.

So what? It's terrible what James did, but does that make Bob any less bad? In fact, does it even have ANYTHING AT ALL to do with Bob? Pathetic.

Oh, and in case someone didn't understand it, something bad that the Israelis do does not negate at all from Islam being a violent or terrorist religion, or whatever else you said, in fact, it has nothing to do with Islam at all.

Lame. Thread. Over.

There's also Turkey and Yemen. And whether Israel, with the amount of religious pressure in the congress, can be even considered a democracy, is STILL up to debate. However, yes, Lebanon is a democracy.
:D Sorry, had to laugh.

So you're going to strip away Israel's democratic title because of too much religious pressure on their congress, but award Lebanon with ALL of it's Syrian pressure a fair and democratic title? Oh please, you lose at geo-politics.

:D Sorry, had to laugh.

So you're going to strip away Israel's democratic title because of too much religious pressure on their congress, but award Lebanon with ALL of it's Syrian pressure a fair and democratic title? Oh please, you lose at geo-politics.

A lot of countries have their politics influenced by foreign nations. The U.S. is heavily influenced by Israel, China, and even Saudi Arabia.

A lot of countries have their politics influenced by foreign nations. The U.S. is heavily influenced by Israel, China, and even Saudi Arabia.
Not in that "foreign influence" is the assasination of our politicians or the upsetting of our soverignty.

:p Nice try

And is America non-Democratic now, but Lebanon is?

Let me just end this thread with an analogy.

Bob is a murderer, oppressor and religious fanatic. He's also imperialistic.


James punches someone.

So what? It's terrible what James did, but does that make Bob any less bad? In fact, does it even have ANYTHING AT ALL to do with Bob? Pathetic.

Oh, and in case someone didn't understand it, something bad that the Israelis do does not negate at all from Islam being a violent or terrorist religion, or whatever else you said, in fact, it has nothing to do with Islam at all.

Lame. Thread. Over.

No but the fact that James punched someone does make the claim "Only bob is violent" False which is in fact the point of the thread

It may be a small point but an important one the ONLY part to the OP and title is key

It may not detract from what Bob did but it does invalidate the claim as being discussed

Not in that "foreign influence" is the assasination of our politicians or the upsetting of our soverignty.

:p Nice try

And is America non-Democratic now, but Lebanon is?

Well our "sovereignity" is affected by these nations. We invaded Iraq partially for the sake of Saudi Arabia and Israel, and we may do so with Iran as well. Politicians also have to be very careful about what they say about Israel, look at Jimmy Carter. And China produces so many things for us, we really can't support policies they severely dislike.

As towards democracy, I didn't claim that either wasn't a democracy.

As towards democracy, I didn't claim that either wasn't a democracy.
All the stuff I delelted was getting away from the point.

I said you cannot clain Israel is not a Democracy because of it's religious pressure but at the same time claim Lebanon is a democracy even considering it's Syrian pressures.

So what do you agree to?

Just a thread for me to link to whenever DK (and other personalities) goes on a tirade about Islam being the scourge of the universe whenever a Muslim lifts a finger.
A Muslim lifting his finger is ok.
It's when he asks you to pull his finger, you better be wary.

Let me just end this thread with an analogy.

Bob is a murderer, oppressor and religious fanatic. He's also imperialistic.


James punches someone.

So what? It's terrible what James did, but does that make Bob any less bad? In fact, does it even have ANYTHING AT ALL to do with Bob? Pathetic.

Oh, and in case someone didn't understand it, something bad that the Israelis do does not negate at all from Islam being a violent or terrorist religion, or whatever else you said, in fact, it has nothing to do with Islam at all.

Lame. Thread. Over.

1- Islam isn't a violent religion.

2- This isn't the only thing that was done in the name of Judaism.

3- "Bob is a murderer, oppressor and religious fanatic. He's also imperialistic." could apply to the USA just as easily.

Poor TAI.

A Muslim lifting his finger is ok.
It's when he asks you to pull his finger, you better be wary.

Oy. :p

All the stuff I delelted was getting away from the point.

I said you cannot clain Israel is not a Democracy because of it's religious pressure but at the same time claim Lebanon is a democracy even considering it's Syrian pressures.

So what do you agree to?

You mean the Syrian pressures Lebanon quite literally shrugged off in the beginning of 2007?

A Muslim lifting his finger is ok.
It's when he asks you to pull his finger, you better be wary.

Yeah, but only Muslims risk everyone else in the room shooting them to bloody spray just for merely lifting a finger.

You mean the Syrian pressures Lebanon quite literally shrugged off in the beginning of 2007?

It doesn't look like they're having an easy time of it, what with the assassinations of anti-Syrian politicians.

It doesn't look like they're having an easy time of it, what with the assassinations of anti-Syrian politicians.

The East Timorese had pro-Indonesian militias clubbing them like baby seals for a while after their secession and independence. Do we hear about that much anymore? Lebanon is going through a similar period of transition.

All the stuff I delelted was getting away from the point.

I said you cannot clain Israel is not a Democracy because of it's religious pressure but at the same time claim Lebanon is a democracy even considering it's Syrian pressures.

So what do you agree to?

When did I ever claim such a thing?

In reality, lebanon is but not Iran.

Lebanon is even worse of a democracy than Iran.

Lebanon has separate electorates. Different posts are ear-marked for different communities. Constituencies also, I believe. That's not a true universal franchise, any man can freely stand anywhere type democracy.

1- Islam isn't a violent religion.

2- This isn't the only thing that was done in the name of Judaism.

3- "Bob is a murderer, oppressor and religious fanatic. He's also imperialistic." could apply to the USA just as easily.

Poor TAI.
1. Islam IS a violent religion. So are Judaism and Christianity (because of Christianity's old testament), however UNLIKE Islam, Judaism and Christianity have reforemed to the ideas of the enlightenment, in some areas more than others, but in general 150% more than Islam. Read the Bible, they are QUITE violent religions.

2. See above. Judaism is a violent religion but it is interpreted in a peacful way, since the Jewish reformation with the destruction of the 2nd Temple and the abolishment of the Jewish church and priesthood.

3.Interesting, you took something that ONLY applied to Lebanon and Israel and managed to bring America into it when it has nothing to do with America because you cannot back up your claims about Israel and Lebanon.
Pathetic, Heikoku, pathetic.
You mean the Syrian pressures Lebanon quite literally shrugged off in the beginning of 2007?
Uh? So you're saying Lebanon is free of Syrian pressure? Heh, are you sure you wanna continue with this?
When did I ever claim such a thing?
Heikoku did, I disagreed and you argued against my disagreement of it. Hence, you sorta did.;)

HEY! YOU STOLE MY POINT, YOU NAUGHTY POINT-STEALER! :p

that made me chuckle

Snip.

If Islam were interpreted by most, or even many, Muslims in a violent way, there wouldn't be a civilization as we know it. We're talking about more than one BILLION people acting violent towards the rest of the world. If even 10% of Muslims were violent, we'd be talking about, yes, 140 MILLION people. A number that's much bigger than the number of terrorists of ALL religions. One of the biggest terrorist organizations of the world, Al Qaeda, has approximately 130 thousand people. Less than one thousandth the number of Muslims that would have to "be violent" for it to be 10%. So, we're talking about what, 1%? That'd still be 14 million. It would take 100 Al Qaeda-sized organizations to amount to that. And Al Qaeda is a big one, and one that's so far been a big threat to America. It would take one hundred Al Qaedas for the number to even reach 1% of the Muslim population. And you have the gall to claim Islam hasn't "gone through the period of enlightenment" and thus is "interpreted in a violent way" with a straight face? Al Qaeda is to Muslims like the KKK is to Christians. The reason Islam is seen by uninformed people such as yourself as a more violent religion is because the fringe groups of Christians that bomb abortion clinics (even when these are also gynecological clinics, and the janitors that work there or the passersby be damned) are seldom as read about as the fringe groups within Islam, due mainly to the fact that the media knows what sells. As for my claims about Israel and Lebanon, not only the fact that people calling for Arson are able to do so knowing they won't lose votes in Israel disturbing, but also, even assuming Lebanon isn't a democracy, something which even Corny admitted it is, Turkey is a democracy. And so is Lebanon, unless you're claiming East Timor isn't one because of the Indonesian attempts to influence.

The funniest part is the fact that you call ME pathetic.

Turkey is a democracy, though they do not demonstrate the respect for freedom of speech that most democracies do.

Lebanon is trying its damn best to be a democracy, and I wish them the best of luck.

Many Arab nations have elections (but with questionable authenticity)

Israel is not the only democracy in the Middle East. However, it IS a democracy. It does not punish dissent (read Haaretz), and it definitely does not have a single party that has been in charge for ages. In fact, no party has EVER gained a majority of seats in the Knesset - every Israeli government has been a coalition. This explains the religious influence on the Israeli government - in order to form a majority, a coalition must normally include a religious party. The religious party will make demands in return for joining the coalition.