NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm curious as to how people on both sides of the issue reached their conclusion.
Did you arrive at your position because of your experiences (or others') with the drug?

The poll is anonymous, so there's no need to lie, but you may be as reply as publicly as you wish.

Note: I am refering to recreational use, not medical.

I was in favor of legalization before I started using it.

I've been in favour of legalising it for as long as I can remember, but I've only been using it in recent years.

Never used it, don't intend to since it has no nutritional value.. or does it?
Can it be stewed or brewed? Or left out to dry and baked into a pie?

I can't vote in the poll since it isn't public, because there is nothing to influence my fragile mind and sway my vote.

We've legalized far more dangerous drugs. The only reason the government has not legalized weed is because it would be very difficult to keep something that grows so readily and without much specialized equipment (even home brewing requires some investment, whereas, in most places, weed requires seeds and patience). Difficult to regulate, difficult to...wait for it...tax.

I've used it, but my position on it stems more from the freedom aspect and the absurdity of those who yammer on against weed than any experience with it I've ever had. I can't stand the smell of the stuff now. Plus, if you're still a chronic user by 25, you need to grow the hell up...whaddya want, to be the GOP nominee for president or something? If that's the case, keep getting high until you're 40.

The hypocrisy with regard to booze and weed helps me think it should be legal.

Never used it, don't intend to since it has no nutritional value.. or does it?
Can it be stewed or brewed? Or left out to dry and baked into a pie?

I can't vote in the poll since it isn't public, because there is nothing to influence my fragile mind and sway my vote.

Bet your ass it can.

Best with baking if you blend it into butter -- there are lots of recipes online for pot butter for baking...and...baking.

Bet your ass it can.

Best with baking if you blend it into butter -- there are lots of recipes online for pot butter for baking...and...baking.

HA!
I just realized...

What do you think "chicken pot-pie" is made out of?

Chicken...and...well, its obvious.

Never used it, don't intend to since it has no nutritional value.. or does it?

Are you teetotal? Alcohol has no nutritional value. In fact, it is highly poisonous.

Are you teetotal? Alcohol has no nutritional value. In fact, it is highly poisonous.

Am I what? When did I say I drank alcohol? Because I don't and never intend to.

I have never used marijuana and don't plan to (mostly for health reasons). However, I wholly support the right of others to use it. I also support legalizing psylocybin mushrooms and other hallucinogens for medicinal purposes, and possibly recreational purposes once they have been tested and their health effects documented.

Am I what? When did I say I drank alcohol? Because I don't and never intend to.

Teetotal = does not drink alcohol. Named in honour of a UK anti-alcohol campaigner who had a bad stammer. He advocated 't-t-total abstinence'.
I see Wikipedia is not convinced:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teetotalism


You didn't say. That's why I asked. The next question that occurs is - do you want alcohol banned?

It should be legalized if for no other reason than to throw organized crime a curve ball.

User and support its legalisation, though am not under the illusion that it never causes any problems.

Are you teetotal? Alcohol has no nutritional value. In fact, it is highly poisonous.You're a damned liar. Alcohol does indeed have nutritional value.

Wiki describeds a nutrient as 'either a chemical element or compound used in an organism's metabolism or physiology'. And ethanol is indeed used in metabolism. When metabolised by the body it yields some 1325 kJ/mol of energy.

I have had pot before, and i voted for it to be illegalised. I have a few reasons for my view.

I drink a fair bit, and i have a lot of friends that drink more than i do, but i havent met or heard of a single person that went insane, crazy or mentally ill in any way from alcohol. Sure people drink til theyre braindead, and people who use it for escapism become bummy alcoholics and drains on society, but i have yet to see or hear of anyone actually going mentally unstable due to alcohol abuse.

On the other hand, i had someone very close to me go completely schiszophrenic from pot. I've watched that person tear their family apart. Pot tends to lead onto other, more harmful drugs, more often than alcohol. Ive also known people that have committed suicide while in the depressive low of pot, which is a far deeper low than alcohol. Im in australia, and im not sure if youth suicides are as high in the states as they are here, but most kids that commit suicide here are on (guess what) pot. Alcohol may have a more negative effect on all your organs, but pot does far more damage to your mind.

Also, very few ppl may use pot beyond their twenties, while many ppl are alcoholics into their 40s or 50s, but the people that outgrow one are just as likely to outgrow the other. Furthermore, a fair few pot smokers are off pot by their thirties because theyve moved onto something heavier. Drink driving may cause a lot of road fatalities, but only because alcohol is more widely consumed.

For the mostpart, the main reason why alcohol has more of a detrimental effect on society is due to the fact that its legal. Pot is illegal, and i believe it should stay that way.

You're a damned liar. Alcohol does indeed have nutritional value.

Wiki describeds a nutrient as 'either a chemical element or compound used in an organism's metabolism or physiology'. And ethanol is indeed used in metabolism. When metabolised by the body it yields some 1325 kJ/mol of energy.

Then my GCSE biology teacher misled me.
And 'damned liar' yourself.

Are you teetotal? Alcohol has no nutritional value. In fact, it is highly poisonous.

Umm, dude, not sure if youve ever heard it, but a lot of doctors and nutritionists recommend a glass of wine or sherry a day

Umm, dude, not sure if youve ever heard it, but a lot of doctors and nutritionists recommend a glass of wine or sherry a day

To reduce the risk of heart disease, I believe.

Add:
Ah, this is where the biology teacher-related confusion has crept in:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/healthy_living/nutrition/drinks_alcohol.shtml
Under 'The nutritive value of alcohol'.

Teetotal = does not drink alcohol. Named in honour of a UK anti-alcohol campaigner who had a bad stammer. He advocated 't-t-total abstinence'.
I see Wikipedia is not convinced:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teetotalism


You didn't say. That's why I asked. The next question that occurs is - do you want alcohol banned?

Hehe. Got it.

If banning alcohol would successfully keep it out of people's bodies, then yes, I would want it banned.

I have had pot before, and i voted for it to be illegalised. I have a few reasons for my view.

I drink a fair bit, and i have a lot of friends that drink more than i do, but i havent met or heard of a single person that went insane, crazy or mentally ill in any way from alcohol. Sure people drink til theyre braindead, and people who use it for escapism become bummy alcoholics and drains on society, but i have yet to see or hear of anyone actually going mentally unstable due to alcohol abuse.

On the other hand, i had someone very close to me go completely schiszophrenic from pot. I've watched that person tear their family apart. Pot tends to lead onto other, more harmful drugs, more often than alcohol. Ive also known people that have committed suicide while in the depressive low of pot, which is a far deeper low than alcohol. Im in australia, and im not sure if youth suicides are as high in the states as they are here, but most kids that commit suicide here are on (guess what) pot. Alcohol may have a more negative effect on all your organs, but pot does far more damage to your mind.

Also, very few ppl may use pot beyond their twenties, while many ppl are alcoholics into their 40s or 50s, but the people that outgrow one are just as likely to outgrow the other. Furthermore, a fair few pot smokers are off pot by their thirties because theyve moved onto something heavier. Drink driving may cause a lot of road fatalities, but only because alcohol is more widely consumed.

For the mostpart, the main reason why alcohol has more of a detrimental effect on society is due to the fact that its legal. Pot is illegal, and i believe it should stay that way.


Errr... ok. Have you ever met a seriously chronic alcoholic? I am not sure if they are schizophrenic, but you would certainly not call them mentally healthy! Alcohol suppresses impulse control (http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro04/web2/epowell.html) and leads to some extremely erratic and dangerous behaviour... and in long term users, the damage can be permanent.

Also, as to the road fatality thing... there have been studies done about that which show pot to be less dangerous than alcohol.

http://www.canorml.org/healthfacts/drivingstudy_new.htm

Obviously these polls are nowhere near scientific and could never be used to make a serious observation, but when a result is as strong as this...

I drink a fair bit, and i have a lot of friends that drink more than i do, but i havent met or heard of a single person that went insane, crazy or mentally ill in any way from alcohol. Sure people drink til theyre braindead, and people who use it for escapism become bummy alcoholics and drains on society, but i have yet to see or hear of anyone actually going mentally unstable due to alcohol abuse.
I know a number of mentally unstable people who drink a lot. One who has used alcohol as part of a suicide attempt...

On the other hand, i had someone very close to me go completely schiszophrenic from pot. I've watched that person tear their family apart.
Pot doesn't make anyone schizo. If someone is likely to become schizophrenic due to other factors (genetics) then pot may serve as a trigger, but if someone has no predisposition towards being schizo, one will not become schizo by getting high.

Pot tends to lead onto other, more harmful drugs, more often than alcohol.
Not really. If anything, one who is able to obtain pot illegally might be able to obtain other illegal substances because they have the connections for such substances... but that's it.

Ive also known people that have committed suicide while in the depressive low of pot, which is a far deeper low than alcohol.
I've never known anyone who's had a depressive low from pot.

Im in australia, and im not sure if youth suicides are as high in the states as they are here, but most kids that commit suicide here are on (guess what) pot.
Stats please?

Alcohol may have a more negative effect on all your organs, but pot does far more damage to your mind.
I really don't think this is the case based on studies I've read, perhaps you can provide one from a credible source?

Also, very few ppl may use pot beyond their twenties, while many ppl are alcoholics into their 40s or 50s, but the people that outgrow one are just as likely to outgrow the other.
Dude, just because 40 and 50 year olds don't admit to smoking pot at their age doesn't mean that they don't and being an alcoholic isn't the alcohol equivalent to smoking pot once in a while with your friends. Being an alcoholic is the alcohol equivalent to being pretty much perpetually stoned and neither is a good thing. Most people who smoke pot do so in a manner similar to having a beer at the end of the day while kicking back to relax, perhaps with some friends.

Furthermore, a fair few pot smokers are off pot by their thirties because theyve moved onto something heavier.
I don't think that your knowledge of the statistics here is superb.

Drink driving may cause a lot of road fatalities, but only because alcohol is more widely consumed.
And this makes alcohol better?
I'm also pretty sure that driving stoned usually results in drivers driving more cautiously and generally the worst case scenario is they drive a bit slow.

For the mostpart, the main reason why alcohol has more of a detrimental effect on society is due to the fact that its legal. Pot is illegal, and i believe it should stay that way.
Actually, if alcohol were illegal, people would still drink it, they'd just be drinking moonshine which isn't regulated and can sometimes be improperly made which can result in things like blindness. Similarly, if pot were legalized then one could make sure that the pot one gets isn't laced with a harder drug.

I'm starting to think it might be better to throw a fine at users or just legalize it with heavy excise taxes.

I'm starting to think it might be better to throw a fine at users or just legalize it with heavy excise taxes.

Or we develop some herbicide for it and spray every nation, body of water, and the interior of every building. Hopefully this herbicide is powerfull enough to kill the plants on contact, like the defoliant Agent Orange, and will have the plus of causing cancer. Maybe it will also kill off certain commercial crops, leading to mass production losses and starvation. Poverty will increase, people will die faster, and the pot smokers will have nothing but irradiated pot-ash to smoke. Life will be even worse than it is currently and suicide rates will skyrocket. Then we go to plan B which is throwing fines at users and raiding drunk people's vehicles.

Pot was made illegal by anti-hemp cotton farming lobbyists.

It is kept illegal by moronic high schoolers who love to wear their pretty "drug free" shirts and wristbands.

Hehe. Got it.

If banning alcohol would successfully keep it out of people's bodies, then yes, I would want it banned.

My right to ruin my own life will not be altered by elitist attitudes.

Or we develop some herbicide for it and spray every nation, body of water, and the interior of every building. Hopefully this herbicide is powerfull enough to kill the plants on contact, like the defoliant Agent Orange, and will have the plus of causing cancer. Maybe it will also kill off certain commercial crops, leading to mass production losses and starvation. Poverty will increase, people will die faster, and the pot smokers will have nothing but irradiated pot-ash to smoke. Life will be even worse than it is currently and suicide rates will skyrocket. Then we go to plan B which is throwing fines at users and raiding drunk people's vehicles.

:confused:
I don't get it.

I haven't smoked any pot in a looooong time and don't intend to ever again, but I think it should be legalized. Pot just isn't a big risky addictive boogey man drug, it's pot.

I've never smoked weed (being allergic to the fumes), but I'm in favor of legalizing it.

Hehe. Got it.

If banning alcohol would successfully keep it out of people's bodies, then yes, I would want it banned.

From a health aspect, it would be far more beneficial to ban McDonalds....

My right to ruin my own life will not be altered by elitist attitudes.

I am not worried about the people that drink (unless I know them personally), I am worried about the people that get hurt because of drunk individuals, drunk drivers killing people on the roads and such.

Go ruin your own life for all I care, just don't hurt anyone else doing it. :)

From a health aspect, it would be far more beneficial to ban McDonalds....

People who eat McDonalds..well, hopefully don't get drunk off the hamburgers and end up killing someone in an out of control car crash due to impaired vision that the fries caused.

People who eat McDonalds..well, hopefully don't get drunk off the hamburgers and end up killing someone in an out of control car crash due to impaired vision that the fries caused.

Well, now you are proposing something else entirely from your "if it would keep alcohol out of people's bodies" line.

Alcohol per se is not a problem.

Drunks driving IS.

That, I will grant you.

Well, now you are proposing something else entirely from your "if it would keep alcohol out of people's bodies" line.

Alcohol per se is not a problem.

Drunks driving IS.

That, I will grant you.

Not really.

You can't drive drunk without drinking..alcohol..
But I know what you mean.

There are two variables in play, Drunk and Driving.

Drunk results from consuming too much alcohol.
Solution: Prevent people from drinking alcohol by banning it which is none too effective as seen previously in history.

Driving results from needing to get somewhere by using a vehicle which you are behind the wheel of.
Solution: Prevent people from driving by...hrm.. many possible solutions, none of them really effective.

The only thing we can do is hope is that people are intelligent and responsible enough to not drink and drive. However, that doesn't seem to be the case all the time.

I vote other....

I have never used pot, what i did was that i saw the pros and the cons, and made an educated decision. I do not want people to smoke pot in the US, because it is currently illegal, so lobby your politicans, but do not act in defiance of the law because lex rex.

Are you teetotal? Alcohol has no nutritional value. In fact, it is highly poisonous.

Alcohol does have nutritional value (http://www.weightlossresources.co.uk/calories/calorie_counter/alcohol.htm) and it isn't entirely toxic.

On topic:
I think the less people have legal tools for escapism the better for society as a whole.

HA!
I just realized...

What do you think "chicken pot-pie" is made out of?

Chicken...and...well, its obvious.

Heheh. Happy chicken pie!

Pot was made illegal by anti-hemp cotton farming lobbyists.

That was only a part of the equation.

The major illegal recreational drugs, including cannabis, were prohibited (and continue to be prohibited) on racist grounds - "OMG! Teh (IYFEG) are getting high and...
1) seducing good white women into sexual slavery (the Chinese and opium).
2) going crazy, raping white women, and being super resistant to police bullets (the infamous "negro cocaine fiends of the South).
3) becoming violent rapists and murderers ("Reefer Madness" and Hispanics).

There was also an element of economic competetive racism behind that as well - all of the above ethnic groups were starting to become competative economically, and that was partly put down to the effects of the associated drugs.

It is kept illegal by moronic high schoolers who love to wear their pretty "drug free" shirts and wristbands.

Not at all.

There remains a largely racist element to the continued policy of drug prohibition, as well as the economic element.

Never used it but I am all for legalization.

Not really.

You can't drive drunk without drinking..alcohol..
But I know what you mean.

There are two variables in play, Drunk and Driving.

Drunk results from consuming too much alcohol.
Solution: Prevent people from drinking alcohol by banning it which is none too effective as seen previously in history.

Driving results from needing to get somewhere by using a vehicle which you are behind the wheel of.
Solution: Prevent people from driving by...hrm.. many possible solutions, none of them really effective.

The only thing we can do is hope is that people are intelligent and responsible enough to not drink and drive. However, that doesn't seem to be the case all the time.


I must assume then that you are also in a total ban on weapon ownership?

Fact is, no matter how hard you try, you cannot legislate stupidity out of humanity. And prohibition has never worked either. Case in point, this very poll. Pot is, after all, illegal. Oddly enough, people don't seem to have any trouble finding it if they want it.

I must assume then that you are also in a total ban on weapon ownership?

Fact is, no matter how hard you try, you cannot legislate stupidity out of humanity. And prohibition has never worked either. Case in point, this very poll. Pot is, after all, illegal. Oddly enough, people don't seem to have any trouble finding it if they want it.

What? No offense, but I don't think you understand me here.

I admitted, even in blatant text, that the bans would not be effective and that we just need to hope that people aren't idiots.

So you are wrong in assuming I am in favour of banning any of that.

You would be right in assuming I would be in favour of it if it would actually work.

Never used and I think it should be legalized but...

I wanna answer "Myrth".

I for one think Marijuana should remain illegal. Here are my reasons:

I was forced to do speed at knife point. I was but nine years old when this happened. If pot is the entry drug to heavier stuff that causes people to do such things as force kids at knife point to do drugs, then yes, it should be illegal.

After the knife point incident, I went some 10 years before looking on any controlled substance. During these years I met a guy and we became best of friends. He has been in and out of rehab countless times. He is barely reaching 19 now.

This very same individual has become downright disrespectful to me and my wishes. Despite numerous times telling him that if he is to be in my presence, then he had better not have any pot near me, he has been smoking the stuff in my very presence. He would get hostile when I would try to distance myself when he was high, or in hte process of getting high.

Many of his friends apply for jobs with the local governments. They have come to me asking to sell them my very own liquid waste. Due in part because they know me as "Mr. Clean." If they cannot meet the prerequisite to be clean for jobs they want, then they should not be doing these things which disqualify them.

While high, my friend has a tendency to overdrive his headlights at night. He has had to replace the front of his car twice because of this. And he had to replace a quarter panel at least once. His car is filthy and smells like hell. His room is filthy, and one can barely walk without stepping on something. There are shards of glass on his floor so one must not go barefoot. His room, btw, is the entire basement of his house.

His drug use has caused conflicts between his father and step-mother. So much so, that they are on the verge of divorce, having separated once already. He is risking my friendship with every outing, his habits have cost him numerous girlfriends. One even committed suicide while she was high with him.

As far as I am concerned, Marijuana is an evil substance. It should be wiped out off hte face of the earth, nothing good can come from it, and it is our good fortune that it has been deemed illegal.

It's only an "entry drug" in some places because you get it from the same guy you get the harder stuff from. Tobacco/alcohol would be considered "entry drugs" also if they were in the same position. As a case in point against the "entry drug" theory, there are lots of potheads who never start using worse stuff.

In my own personal experience, I've learned to hate people who're drunk more than people who're high on pot.

I'm curious as to how people on both sides of the issue reached their conclusion.
Did you arrive at your position because of your experiences (or others') with the drug?

The poll is anonymous, so there's no need to lie, but you may be as reply as publicly as you wish.

Note: I am refering to recreational use, not medical.

I think the correlation is between maturity and immaturity.

I think the correlation is between maturity and immaturity.

So, which side is "mature" and which is "immature"? I have met mature enough folks on both sides of this debate. What makes you think that maturity has something to do with this?

I support pot being illegal. People smoking cigarette in the street is bad enough, why would I want a substance that smells 10x worst and last 10x as long a cigarette to be around? I can't imagine how I can live in a place where the streets smells like weed all the time. Nor do I want people driving while stoned, because once legalized you will have just as many people doing that as they do drunk driving. So really where's everyone else's rights in living in a safe and clean environment? I think anyone who ever took weed before know how bad that thing smells like.

However Pot as a gateway drugs? Na. Correlation does not = causation. I will say that people who try pot are the people who already at risk and are open minded to experimenting in the first place. Who most likely had taken alcohol already got a taste of what drugs can do and wanted more. Even if pot doesn't exist another drug would have take it's place. It's not like pot itself is causing those people to take something more serious. In as much as being stoned is fun, it is a non unique harm and the elimination of pot isn't going to change a thing.

I support pot being illegal. People smoking cigarette in the street is bad enough, why would I want a substance that smells 10x worst and last 10x as long a cigarette to be around? I can't imagine how I can live in a place where the streets smells like weed all the time. Nor do I want people driving while stoned, because once legalized you will have just as many people doing that as they do drunk driving. So really where's everyone else's rights in living in a safe and clean environment? I think anyone who ever took weed before know how bad that thing smells like.


What a bullshit argument. Since when is taking intoxicants in the streets acceptable? Why the fuck would you believe that 'legal' would mean I get to light up on the sidewalk?

Jesus fucking Christ people, at least be reasonable in your bullshit.

The rest of this has nothing to do with you.

And I love the anecdotal take of the thread, bravo. The anecdotal bullshit is the smelliest bullshit of them all. If we get to decide policy like this on anecdote then everyone should smoke pot because the most intelligent and together people I know, professionals all, smoke pot. The biggest jackasses I know, drink. So since anecdote is all deciding, light up, fuckers.

Why do I have to deal with bullshit laws because you hang out with losers? You need to make better friends rather than sweat your balls over what I smoke while watching adult swim.

So, which side is "mature" and which is "immature"? I have met mature enough folks on both sides of this debate. What makes you think that maturity has something to do with this?

Age is not a correlation to maturity.

Wow....that was....quite aggressive. Not you Good Lifes, the post before you was.

Wow....that was....quite aggressive.

I'm not high enough to suffer fools lightly. (actually not high at all, other bills first)

Personally I have no opinion on the ultimate legalisation - in some sense, I quite enjoyed the soft illegality of pot, the slightly subversive nature of it.

However, when it comes to old people, I strongly feel that it should be on prescription for anyone who wants it, baked in large batches of chocolate chip cookies and handed out to OAPs at 8am, a refresher at around 2pm and a nightcap at around 8pm, possibly paid for by the state.

Anyone who disagrees with me on this is a Nazi.

Very simple: what adults wish to put inside their bodies is entirely up to them. It is not my or the states place to restrict that freedom.

Good education about the risks involved otoh can be done by the state. And inflicting punishment on you if your intake of substance X leads to harm for other citizens/other peoples buildings/etc. due for instance "high driving" also seems fair.

And to return to the actual question: tried it, did not like it.

What a bullshit argument. Since when is taking intoxicants in the streets acceptable? Why the fuck would you believe that 'legal' would mean I get to light up on the sidewalk?

Jesus fucking Christ people, at least be reasonable in your bullshit.

The rest of this has nothing to do with you.

And I love the anecdotal take of the thread, bravo. The anecdotal bullshit is the smelliest bullshit of them all. If we get to decide policy like this on anecdote then everyone should smoke pot because the most intelligent and together people I know, professionals all, smoke pot. The biggest jackasses I know, drink. So since anecdote is all deciding, light up, fuckers.

Why do I have to deal with bullshit laws because you hang out with losers? You need to make better friends rather than sweat your balls over what I smoke while watching adult swim.

"I do it because I want to" surely makes your opinion matters more than anyone else. Your biggest argument is that you know a jackass that drinks, but all the cool guy smoke weed. Wow really if you think that's a good argument you really need to get a reality check.

So really, what are the positive aspect of legalizing the use of pot?

Now, if you read the poll properly, it did not specifically say "pot in private places only". If it did then I would not make the argument, since it didn't, my argument stands valid.

You still did not make any valid argument about the increase in driving while stoned if pot is to be legalized. Drunk and drive is bad enough, do we need to introduce a new legal drug into society? Isn't alcohol a big enough problem in our society already?

I also don't see why children would need to have an even easier access to pot. Legalization will do just that.

Instead of cursing and sinking to a level that I don't need to, I felt that your argument speaks for itself, so I guess I let the other viewers be the judge as to how compelling your argument is over mine.

Give 'em hell, FE! :D ....Can I call you that? FE?

I think the correlation is between maturity and immaturity.

Not on this thread, by the looks of it.

I've used it once, and am in no rush to use it again, and think it should be legalised.

i support the legalization of marajuana for anti-terrorism reasons.

if we grow and smoke our own it takes money away from the drug cartels. this would be a very good thing.

I for one think Marijuana should remain illegal. Here are my reasons:

I was forced to do speed at knife point. I was but nine years old when this happened. If pot is the entry drug to heavier stuff that causes people to do such things as force kids at knife point to do drugs, then yes, it should be illegal.
Marijuana, in and of itself, isn't a gateway drug. Dealers use it as a gateway drug. 'You like weed, you'll love this'. Legalisation and regulation of drugs and drug education would eliminate these issues.

After the knife point incident,
Which isn't all that relevant to the topic
I went some 10 years before looking on any controlled substance. During these years I met a guy and we became best of friends. He has been in and out of rehab countless times. He is barely reaching 19 now.
And?

This very same individual has become downright disrespectful to me and my wishes. Despite numerous times telling him that if he is to be in my presence, then he had better not have any pot near me, he has been smoking the stuff in my very presence. He would get hostile when I would try to distance myself when he was high, or in hte process of getting high.
Again, what does this have to do with anything?

Many of his friends apply for jobs with the local governments. They have come to me asking to sell them my very own liquid waste. Due in part because they know me as "Mr. Clean." If they cannot meet the prerequisite to be clean for jobs they want, then they should not be doing these things which disqualify them.
Your ability to stay off topic is impressive.

While high, my friend has a tendency to overdrive his headlights at night. He has had to replace the front of his car twice because of this. And he had to replace a quarter panel at least once. His car is filthy and smells like hell. His room is filthy, and one can barely walk without stepping on something. There are shards of glass on his floor so one must not go barefoot. His room, btw, is the entire basement of his house.
Very impressive indeed. In case you haven't got the picture yet, the actions of one stoner are not indicative of anything.

His drug use has caused conflicts between his father and step-mother. So much so, that they are on the verge of divorce, having separated once already. He is risking my friendship with every outing, his habits have cost him numerous girlfriends. One even committed suicide while she was high with him.
Continued irrelevance.

As far as I am concerned, Marijuana is an evil substance. It should be wiped out off hte face of the earth, nothing good can come from it, and it is our good fortune that it has been deemed illegal.

So because you know ONE stoner with a shitty life and you had ONE really really shitty experience with a different drug, marijuana is evil?

So, if you don't smoke weed, how exactly do you transport yourself to this alternate reality?

So really, what are the positive aspect of legalizing the use of pot?

I'm glad you asked!

-More than 734,000 people are arrested on marijuana charges each year in the USA. That is more than the combined number of people arrested for violent crimes, including murder, rape and assault. I don't know about you, but I think it's more important to catch rapists and murderers than it is to lock up people who smoke weed.

-More than $10 billion is spent annually in prosecuting and jailing marijuana users. That's a lot of money that could be spent on productive measures, like prosecuting and jailing violent criminals.

-The US justice system is already notoriously over-taxed. Remember, prosecuting somebody takes time. Lawyers must spend time arguing the case. A judge must hear the case. Often a jury/grand jury will have to spend significant time on the case. Imagine if all that time could be spent on more productive matters (like prosecuting rapists and murderers).

-Marijuana is already among the top 10 cash crops in the USA. Profits from legalizing and taxing marijuana like other cash crops could exceed $100 billion anually.

-When a drug is illegal, crime associated with that drug increases sharply. This was seen very clearly during the Prohibition era in the US, and countless studies have confirmed that it continues with drugs that are currently illegal. When the drugs are illegal, the costs of the drugs go up, and addicts must spend more for their habit. They are more likely to resort to crime to support their habit. There also is no legal recourse if somebody is cheated in the process of buying or selling the drug, so users are more likely to resort to "vigilante justice" (read: assault/murder).

-As long as marijuana is illegal, the only people getting rich off it are criminals (by definition). Making criminals rich is counterproductive for our justice system.

-Organized crime will be crippled by the legalization of drugs. Drug trafficking provides the backbone of revenue for countless organized crime groups, and legalization of drugs will remove this entire area of profit.

-Related to the "organized crime" bit, legalization of drugs would also help stabilize foreign countries. Drug trafficking enjoys a symbiotic relationship with various cartels and guerilla groups in many nations.

-A major incentive for police corruption would be removed if marijuana were legalized.

-Legalization is also a consumer protection issue. Legalized drugs, regulated by government bodies, are of higher purity and are safer than street drugs. Consumers are also provided with more information about their drugs and drug interactions, so they can make better choices about what they consume. This leads to fewer deaths and health problems due to drug use.


Now, this is only the short list, and I know I'm leaving some important points out. But I think you get the idea.

Very impressive indeed. In case you haven't got the picture yet, the actions of one stoner are not indicative of anything.

This is a point that just cannot be made enough, it seems.

Folks, your annecdotes about loser pothead friends of yours don't actually constitute solid arguments on this topic. And you want to know why?

Because of me.

Yep, that's right. I am just that important.

Here's why!

I used drugs starting at about age 12. Started with pot and cigs. Moved on to halucinogens starting my junior year of high school. By my senior year, I was dropping acid during my first period Chem class every day. (Yep, I was doing drugs while in school.)

I graduated 1st in my high school class.

I continued to use drugs (mainly pot and alcohol, though also some coke, speed, E, and halucinogens) during college.

I graduated with honors, and a tripple major.

I'm not telling you any of this to brag. I'm not saying drugs made it possible.

I'm just saying that your personal annecdotes don't actually prove a thing.

This is a point that just cannot be made enough, it seems.

Folks, your annecdotes about loser pothead friends of yours don't actually constitute solid arguments on this topic. And you want to know why?

Because of me.

Yep, that's right. I am just that important.

Here's why!

I used drugs starting at about age 12. Started with pot and cigs. Moved on to halucinogens starting my junior year of high school. By my senior year, I was dropping acid during my first period Chem class every day. (Yep, I was doing drugs while in school.)

I graduated 1st in my high school class.

I continued to use drugs (mainly pot and alcohol, though also some coke, speed, E, and halucinogens) during college. I graduated with honors, and a tripple major.

I'm not telling you any of this to brag. I'm not saying drugs made it possible.

I'm just saying that your personal annecdotes don't actually prove a thing.

See, if we get about 9998 more anecdotes then, maybe, possibly, we'll have some data worth taking note of(though that's a pretty slim possibility). I won't hold my breath.

See, if we get about 9998 more anecdotes then, maybe, possibly, we'll have some data worth taking note of(though that's a pretty slim possibility). I won't hold my breath.
Exactly.

For somebody to claim that drugs are bad because this friend of theirs used drugs and had a shitty life is as stupid as it would be for me to claim that smoking pot made me valedictorian.

M


Your ability to stay off topic is impressive.


Very impressive indeed. In case you haven't got the picture yet, the actions of one stoner are not indicative of anything.



For the record, I stayed on topic the entire time. And yes, the actions of one person are indicative of many things. My story is simply a repeat of many before me who have had similar experiences. Sure that must account for something

I guess the failure to mention that all of this was relevant to the legalization issue is my fault. If we legalize a substance that does this to people, how long is it before the family unit is further destroyed? How long before the country is flung into anarchy because people cannot take jobs due to substance abuse?

I will admit alcohol is an abused substance, as many have said. Alcohol is also another evil. Which is why I don't touch the stuff. <- that my friend, is irrelevant to the issue.

Back to relevancy, there have been many studies that show intoxication from marijuana slows your reaction time. Do we really want people to be driving while they are high, and have it be legal? How many more lives must be lost, how many more families destroyed because of people are intoxicated by yet another addictive substance made legal?

That argument aside, marijuana makes people extremely lazy. How many people are we, the workers, to support because they are too dad-gummed stoned to go out and be productive? Would you want your mechanic to be so high he is too stoned to care about critical things done to keep your car running? How would you feel if he forgot to replace the lug nuts on a rim, or if he didn't replace brake fluid lost when he had to bleed the brakes? How would you feel if your home wasn't built to code because the carpenters, brick masons, electricians and plumbers were too stoned to care about regulatory code?

And an even better point: would you want your child addicted to a substance that breaks up families? would you want your child to steal money from your wallet, so he can get just one more toke? It may seem harmless in the short run, but legalization is very harmful in the long run.

For the record, I stayed on topic the entire time. And yes, the actions of one person are indicative of many things. My story is simply a repeat of many before me who have had similar experiences. Sure that must account for something
It's indicative of what that one person does when high. By that reasoning we should outlaw driving since there are people who can't do it safely.

I guess the failure to mention that all of this was relevant to the legalization issue is my fault. If we legalize a substance that does this to people, how long is it before the family unit is further destroyed? How long before the country is flung into anarchy because people cannot take jobs due to substance abuse?
Except you have no proof that marijuana has the effects you listed. You have some anecdotes. Bottle has some contradictory ones. I guess anecdotes aren't all that useful for proving things.

I will admit alcohol is an abused substance, as many have said. Alcohol is also another evil. Which is why I don't touch the stuff. <- that my friend, is irrelevant to the issue.
So being abused makes a substance evil? Do you feel this way about glue?

Back to relevancy, there have been many studies that show intoxication from marijuana slows your reaction time. Do we really want people to be driving while they are high, and have it be legal?
Alcohol is legal, driving under the influence of it is not. Why would that be different with marijuana?
How many more lives must be lost, how many more families destroyed because of people are intoxicated by yet another addictive substance made legal?
How many more times will we have to listen to this shit before people blame the crimnals, not the substance they were high on?
That argument aside, marijuana makes people extremely lazy. How many people are we, the workers, to support because they are too dad-gummed stoned to go out and be productive?
Being drunk isn't conducive to being productive either, and yet the world economy struggles along.
Would you want your mechanic to be so high he is too stoned to care about critical things done to keep your car running? How would you feel if he forgot to replace the lug nuts on a rim, or if he didn't replace brake fluid lost when he had to bleed the brakes? How would you feel if your home wasn't built to code because the carpenters, brick masons, electricians and plumbers were too stoned to care about regulatory code?
I'd be pretty pissed. Just like if they were too drunk to do their job properly. Or too stupid. Actually, all I'd care about is the fact that the job I pad them for wasn't done properly. Why it wasn't done properly is their problem.

Are you actually suggesting that legalising marijuana will make everyone get high all the time?

And an even better point: would you want your child addicted to a substance that breaks up families?
No. Fortunately there is no such substance. Since families are social constructs and not physical things, no chemical substance can effect them in any way.
would you want your child to steal money from your wallet, so he can get just one more toke?
If my hypothetical child wants to get high on hypothetically legal weed they can get a job.
It may seem harmless in the short run, but legalization is very harmful in the long run.

Don't assert, prove.

I will take my leave of this topic for a time. It seems people aren't willing to listen to reason, and claim it irrelevant and off topic.

For the record, I stayed on topic the entire time. And yes, the actions of one person are indicative of many things. My story is simply a repeat of many before me who have had similar experiences. Sure that must account for something

It is "on topic" in the sense that you are sharing how your personal experience has lead you to your stance on legalization of pot.


I guess the failure to mention that all of this was relevant to the legalization issue is my fault. If we legalize a substance that does this to people, how long is it before the family unit is further destroyed?

You are asking the wrong question.

The actual question you should ask is, "Will legalizing this substance make things better or worse for users and their families?"

Obviously having pot illegal doesn't stop the kind of thing you described.


How long before the country is flung into anarchy because people cannot take jobs due to substance abuse?

Just like what happened when alcohol was legalized, amirite? TOTAL ANARCHY!!!


I will admit alcohol is an abused substance, as many have said. Alcohol is also another evil. Which is why I don't touch the stuff. <- that my friend, is irrelevant to the issue.

Actually, you make it totally relevant by suggesting that legalizing pot will lead to anarchy because people cannot take jobs due to substance abuse. Clearly, this has not happened with the many, many other LEGAL drugs out there, so why should we think it will happen with pot?

Alcohol is, after all, far more medically dangerous than pot. If legal booze hasn't caused the problems you describe, then why would pot?


Back to relevancy, there have been many studies that show intoxication from marijuana slows your reaction time. Do we really want people to be driving while they are high, and have it be legal? How many more lives must be lost, how many more families destroyed because of people are intoxicated by yet another addictive substance made legal?

Alcohol is legal, yet drunk driving isn't. Why would pot be any different?


That argument aside, marijuana makes people extremely lazy.

Yeah, made me so lazy I got straight A's and a scholarship...


How many people are we, the workers, to support because they are too dad-gummed stoned to go out and be productive? Would you want your mechanic to be so high he is too stoned to care about critical things done to keep your car running? How would you feel if he forgot to replace the lug nuts on a rim, or if he didn't replace brake fluid lost when he had to bleed the brakes? How would you feel if your home wasn't built to code because the carpenters, brick masons, electricians and plumbers were too stoned to care about regulatory code?

See, this is an example of you going off-topic again.

Booze is legal and it's considered ok to drink recreationally. That doesn't mean it's okay to be drunk while driving, while on the job, or while operating heavy machinery.

Besides, you claim that pot would make everybody too lazy to go to work, so your mechanic wouldn't be fixing your car while high anyhow...he'd be home getting lit, right?


And an even better point: would you want your child addicted to a substance that breaks up families?

Of course not. Which is why I support legalization. My child is far less likely to be harmed or killed by drugs if they are legalized, and my family is far less likely to be broken up if my kid can't be sent to jail for smoking.


would you want your child to steal money from your wallet, so he can get just one more toke?

A child is far less likely to resort to crime in order to support a drug habit if the drug in question is legal. So, again, you are making arguments in favor of legalization.


It may seem harmless in the short run, but legalization is very harmful in the long run.
You have yet to provide a single example of how legalization would be more harmful than our current system.

Am I what? When did I say I drank alcohol? Because I don't and never intend to.

Boring. Boring. Boring. Drugs and booze are fun when used recreationally.:)

And I am fully in favour of legalisation, provided it comes with regulation of quality and purity.

The true issue with weed is that, due to its being available only through illegal sources, it is invariably chemically altered and poisoned; it is this, not pure cannabis, that induces psychosis.

I will take my leave of this topic for a time. It seems people aren't willing to listen to reason, and claim it irrelevant and off topic.
How lazy of you. Stop smoking pot, you hippy.

i support decriminalisation or legalisation as long as there's regulation just as there is for alcohol. (ie no underage toking, no high driving, maybe taxation, quality controls, etc)

i have used the drug myself. at one time, a lot.

"I do it because I want to" surely makes your opinion matters more than anyone else. Your biggest argument is that you know a jackass that drinks, but all the cool guy smoke weed. Wow really if you think that's a good argument you really need to get a reality check.


man, that was actually his point. anecdotes are worth shit. heard of sarcasm?

I will take my leave of this topic for a time. It seems people aren't willing to listen to reason, and claim it irrelevant and off topic.

Anyone who doesn't agree with your opinion is 'not willing to listen to reason'?

All that has been asked of you, is that you provide some kind of evidence, not recite a mantra of anecdote. Not too much to ask, surely?

Interesting results so far: The less experience someone has with something, the more likely they are at forming an opinion about it.... I think this says a lot about humans in general.

Not that I am going to say much, in general, as I'm of the affirmative position in its legality, but have never used it and never plan to... But, then again my position on its legality is not based upon a general moral opinion of drugs, but of a general ethical opinion of human liberty. I'm all for legalizing it; but have no qualms in addition to insuring that its use is restricted in the same way other legalized drugs are (that is, you use it and drive, it's like drinking and driving). But I will draw no distinction between smoking a joint at home or at a bar/restaurant, and drinking an alcoholic beverage at home or at a bar/restaurant.

Anyone who doesn't agree with your opinion is 'not willing to listen to reason'?

All that has been asked of you, is that you provide some kind of evidence, not recite a mantra of anecdote. Not too much to ask, surely?

Evidently it is.

I supported legalisation of marijuana already BEFORE trying it. I still support it.

Btw, when I want a psychotropic drug, I go for alcohol. Alcohol tastes better than cannabis, plus it's legal.

Anyone who doesn't agree with your opinion is 'not willing to listen to reason'?

All that has been asked of you, is that you provide some kind of evidence, not recite a mantra of anecdote. Not too much to ask, surely?
Shhh. Don't tempt him to come back. I'm enjoying how the laziest person on this thread is the "clean" fellow who insists that pot will make his mechanic too lazy to change his oil for him.

I'm curious as to how people on both sides of the issue reached their conclusion.
Did you arrive at your position because of your experiences (or others') with the drug?

The poll is anonymous, so there's no need to lie, but you may be as reply as publicly as you wish.

Note: I am refering to recreational use, not medical.

I'm fully in favour of legalisation. I have never used it, and never will. Even the smell of it makes me nauseous.

However - all the current evidence seems to suggest that pot is not noticably harmful, and is - in fact - much less dangerous than a number of substances we currently consider legal.

Add to which - as one poster pointed out earlier - most of our 'illegal drug' laws are recent artifacts, and were pushed largely on an entirely racist basis.

The argument that pot is a 'gateway' drug to anything is nonsense. Pot is a gateway to cocaine in the same way that masturbation is a gateway to rape.

I supported legalisation of marijuana already BEFORE trying it. I still support it.

Btw, when I want a psychotropic drug, I go for alcohol. Alcohol tastes better than cannabis, plus it's legal.

Alcohol comes in pretty colours and flavours.

Shhh. Don't tempt him to come back. I'm enjoying how the laziest person on this thread is the "clean" fellow who insists that pot will make his mechanic too lazy to change his oil for him.

I'm 'clean'. And I think mere anecdote is a flawed argument.

Looking at the low postcounts of all those who have decided anecdote is a good tool, I'm inclined to suspect we are actually being trolled with alts. But... I like to give people a chance to defend themselves before I decide they are full of shit.

I'm 'clean'. And I think mere anecdote is a flawed argument.

Same here.


Looking at the low postcounts of all those who have decided anecdote is a good tool, I'm inclined to suspect we are actually being trolled with alts. But... I like to give people a chance to defend themselves before I decide they are ful lof shit.
Same here.

I'm pro-choice. Now before you jump down my throat because of my use of that term, let me explain. I believe that people should be able to make their own choices. If someone wants to use Grass then they should be able to. If someone doesn't want to, then they shouldn't have to.

People say Marijuana is a gateway drug. I say, what about coffee, tea (both can have high amounts of caffeine), alcohol, or tobacco? These are all drugs in their own right yet they are perfectly legal.

Yes I smoke but I smoke out because I made the choice and it was my choice. No one influenced me.

Being pressured into trying drugs is wrong plain and simple and it doesn't matter what drug it is.

Making your own educated choice is the way to go.

"everyone" under 60 (and half of those over 60) has used marajuana.

"everyone" from the president of the united states to your mother has at least tried it

(ya ya not everyone since there are many people under 15 who havent yet and grave'n'idle)(and me)

all you have to do is look around. how much of a problem is pot when you take away the legal issues? almost no problem at all. there are a few stoners who derail their lives for a while by laying about high all day long. but as soon as they decide to stop--no harm no foul. i supppose that some people get fat from too much junk food due to the appetite stimulation.

apart from the stench, there is no big problem and stench isnt a good reason to make anything illegal.

I dunno, I've encountered some pretty offensive colognes.

I'm pro-choice. Now before you jump down my throat because of my use of that term, let me explain. I believe that people should be able to make their own choices. If someone wants to use Grass then they should be able to. If someone doesn't want to, then they shouldn't have to.

People say Marijuana is a gateway drug. I say, what about coffee, tea (both can have high amounts of caffeine), alcohol, or tobacco? These are all drugs in their own right yet they are perfectly legal.

Yes I smoke but I smoke out because I made the choice and it was my choice. No one influenced me.

Being pressured into trying drugs is wrong plain and simple and it doesn't matter what drug it is.

Making your own educated choice is the way to go.
I agree, and I take it a step further:

Part of the reason I support legalization and regulation of drugs is because I believe this will allow people to make better choices. Not only will they have access to safer products if they choose, they also will have more information about what they are taking and how it may impact their health.

American drug education right now is revolting. Young people are pretty much never provided with accurate information about drugs like marijuana. They're told countless bald-faced lies about these substances, and lying DOES NOT PROTECT ANYBODY.

In my opinion, giving kids false information about psychoactive substances should be what gets you locked away for life, not choosing to smoke pot on the weekends.

"everyone" under 60 (and half of those over 60) has used marajuana.

"everyone" from the president of the united states to your mother has at least tried it

(ya ya not everyone since there are many people under 15 who havent yet and grave'n'idle)(and me)

all you have to do is look around. how much of a problem is pot when you take away the legal issues? almost no problem at all. there are a few stoners who derail their lives for a while by laying about high all day long. but as soon as they decide to stop--no harm no foul. i supppose that some people get fat from too much junk food due to the appetite stimulation.

apart from the stench, there is no big problem and stench isnt a good reason to make anything illegal.

I support legalization of marijuana because the government really doesn't need the headache of trying to stamp it out. That said, it's a good idea to regulate it (driving while high is every bit as bad as driving while drunk, and do we really want it in the high schools?) and it's a good idea to make sure we know what's going into it, just like with every other drug.

I have never tried marijuana, nor do I intend to. I am what they called "straight-edge" when I was in high school - no alcohol, tobacco, hard drugs, or sex (three of which are topics for another day.) For me, it's less of an issue of "well, people have the right to use drugs," and more of an issue of "is it really worth it to ban this shit?"

I support legalization partially because I enjoy using it but mainly because of the harm prohibition causes.

Short and simple:

Keep it illegal

Reason: personal experience

I work in a machining factory where we used high poweed robotic machine tools to bash bits of metal into differently shaped bits of metal, we also employ 6 under 20 yr olds as machine operators.
If they've been smoking pot (or out the night before getting drunk), the chances are they will not be paying attention to what they are doing, and the machines can happily rip your arm off and beat you to death with the wet end before you can go ouch if you are not careful, or fire a 5lb lump of metal out of the machine and through your head... the guy behind you's head and through the wall behind that :eek:

The other reason is the huge and I mean f***ing HUGE difference in personality when they've been smoking pot and been clean for a few days (unable to afford it). its quite amazing, but then as a pot smoker you would'nt see the difference,much the same as a drunk never sees the difference.

But you carry on puffing away.... remember that joint is doing as much damage to your lungs as an unfiltered cigarette :cool:

Short and simple:

Keep it illegal

Reason: personal experience

I work in a machining factory where we used high poweed robotic machine tools to bash bits of metal into differently shaped bits of metal, we also employ 6 under 20 yr olds as machine operators.
If they've been smoking pot (or out the night before getting drunk), the chances are they will not be paying attention to what they are doing, and the machines can happily rip your arm off and beat you to death with the wet end before you can go ouch if you are not careful, or fire a 5lb lump of metal out of the machine and through your head... the guy behind you's head and through the wall behind that :eek:

The other reason is the huge and I mean f***ing HUGE difference in personality when they've been smoking pot and been clean for a few days (unable to afford it). its quite amazing, but then as a pot smoker you would'nt see the difference,much the same as a drunk never sees the difference.

But you carry on puffing away.... remember that joint is doing as much damage to your lungs as an unfiltered cigarette :cool:

So, what's the difference between legalizing it, and restricting its use; and how alcohol is presently treated on the job-site? Why don't you advocate making alcohol illegal like the prohibitionists of the early 20th century?

Why can't Americans be consistent?

So, what's the difference between legalizing it, and restricting its use; and how alcohol is presently treated on the job-site? Why don't you advocate making alcohol illegal like the prohibitionists of the early 20th century?

Because that would make sense.


Why can't Americans be consistent?
Look, we're contributing in our own special way.

We're the screw-up cousin who makes you look so much better by comparison. Whenever you do something silly and people are about to give you crap for it, you can just point at us and say, "Hey, at least I'm not as stupid as that."

You know why Europe looks so civilized and put-together? Because we're over here on our side of the ocean making asses of ourselves 24/7. The dumber we are, the smarter Europe looks.

We're the screw-up cousin who makes you look so much better by comparison. Whenever you do something silly and people are about to give you crap for it, you can just point at us and say, "Hey, at least I'm not as stupid as that."

You know why Europe looks so civilized and put-together? Because we're over here on our side of the ocean making asses of ourselves 24/7. The dumber we are, the smarter Europe looks.

Quoted for truth. Seriously even. It is remarkable how much hate Bush has managed to pull to the USa that otherwise would have fallen on the EU. For us, he truly is a marvellous president.

Because that would make sense.


Look, we're contributing in our own special way.

We're the screw-up cousin who makes you look so much better by comparison. Whenever you do something silly and people are about to give you crap for it, you can just point at us and say, "Hey, at least I'm not as stupid as that."

You know why Europe looks so civilized and put-together? Because we're over here on our side of the ocean making asses of ourselves 24/7. The dumber we are, the smarter Europe looks.

I'm from the US... Which is why I wonder why Americans (in general) cannot be consistent... I get to see it on a day to day basis.

The same group that wants to make abortion illegal, refuses to support the excess kids.

The same group which claims to represent the everyday working man, refuses to increase the minimum wage.

The same group that carries pro-life signs, advocates wars.

I've always been in favor of legalizing pot for recreational use. You should be able to buy it at least as easily as cigarettes.

While I've tried pot, I found that I wasn't fond of the particuliar type of high you get. So the legalization issue would have no effect on me personally. I'm just against the idea of the government telling me what I can put in my body. To paraphrase Dennis Miller- I don't care if you want to mainline kerosine, it's your own business.

I'm starting to think it might be better to throw a fine at users or just legalize it with heavy excise taxes.


Sorry, but heavily taxing users will not work. First of all, if the government heavily taxing cannabis, then people are just going to get it off the street, much how they are doing now. If people want to smoke for cheap, they can do it now, and they will be able to do it with heavy taxes.

Rather then punishing smokers, in a sense with unreasonable taxes, the government should fairly tax marijuana. The price will have to be lower then the price on the street. In my opinion, this is the best and possibly the only approach towards legalization.

Right, because most tobacco users buy illegal tobacco rather than pay the high tobacco taxes.

I've never used pot, and I really can't imagine why anyone would want to, but who am I to say they can't? So, I'm strongly in favour of legalisation.

Sorry, but heavily taxing users will not work. First of all, if the government heavily taxing cannabis, then people are just going to get it off the street, much how they are doing now. If people want to smoke for cheap, they can do it now, and they will be able to do it with heavy taxes.

except that legalisation would allow it to be grown legaly, which means companies could grow it a) more locally, reducing travel costs, and b) with economies of scale probably not gained through illegal production.

if the price of legal weed were above that of illegal pot, then that'd clearly be a problem, yes. but i would suspect this would not be the case, even with taxation.

besides, legal weed would also have the premium of quality control and being safer.


my other solution to this problem would be to make supply of weed illegal (without a license) and possibly carry heavy prison sentences.

This is probably a strange way to say what I mean, but......

I think that MJ should not be legalized, but it should be made not illegal to smoke, grow or do whatever the heck you want to do with it.

Basically what I am saying is to repeal the existing laws that have made it illegal. And then just forget about it. Let parents, communities, corporations deal with the effects of improper use of it. Whenever focus is on a subject be it pro or con it is brought to the forefront of the human psyche. The more one hears about something the more inclined they are to try it out out of plain curiosity. The more you tell someone that they can't do something, the more you push him toward doing it. It's the innate rebel in all of us.

Instead we need to educate our children on the effects and ramifications of smoking pot. When little Billy asks why Uncle Bob's eyes are so red, why he speaks so slow, has the giggles, and is constantly raiding the refrigerator, TELL HIM the truth! Tell him the pros and cons, and then let him decide for himself, when he is mature enough to make those kind of decisions of course. Education is the only way one can make an educated decision about anything.

And yes, as an adult I have smoked my share of bones......

lol yeah I guess since it is now illegal.... I'm for legalizing it. Just don't want a lot of new laws added to the books......

but it should be made not illegal to smoke, grow or do whatever the heck you want to do with it.

That's, um, legalizing....


Isn't it?

That's, um, legalizing....


Isn't it?

That (I think) is decriminalization.

Legalize it I guess, or maybe not, I can't decide, it depends on how you look at it.

Personally I've never used recreational drugs and never will. I don't see any point in becoming temporarily stupid or confused. If there was a drug that raised your intelligence, allowed you to see reality as it is more clearly and caused you to make better thought through decisions then I'd use it.

On an ideological level, the government has no right to decide what people can do with their own bodies so recreational drugs should be legal. But there should be extensive testing of new recreational drugs before they are approved just like with medical drugs and laws against irresponsible use such as the drunk driving law.

From a pragmatic point of view society would be better off if recreational drugs where illegal. People who injure themselves or others in drunken stupor or suffer health problems after long term use cost society a lot. People who suicide or just lose their jobs due to a drug addiction costs society even more in lost income. This doesn't work in the west though, recreational drug use is rampant no matter what the government does. Usage is limited in some Muslim countries so a ban on recreational drugs can be enforced in some societies, just not in a modern western society.

Either way it is double morale to allow alcohol and ban other recreational drugs. Either ban all, allow all or set a bar for an objective measure of negative side effects and allow everything lighter then that limit.

laws against pot are some of the dumbest laws ever written. and I can neither confirm nor deny reports I used it in the past.

I need to make a "Say no to drugs" image with Dubya ranting against Pot with a straw in one hand a mirror in another and white powder on his nose...

I'm also in favor of legalization and have been since before I started smoking. Despite the "reefer madness" propaganda that floods the airwaves, it has been my experience, and the experience of many of my friends, that pot is one of the "easiest" drugs to use. In fact, I much prefer smoking to drinking. The U.S. government, in particular, seems to have a vendetta against all drugs that weren't manufactured by a pharmaceutical company. I don't know whether this stems from a desire to keep profits close to home or if it's just an easy way to control the open-minded radicals. I'm sure I could go on, but I'm not exactly exploring new territory here, am I?

- SNIP -
Translation: decriminalise.

When I used to get stoned I would have the greatest epiphanies... I'm sure I could have solved all the problems of the world if I could have only remembered what it was that I had thought.

Hmmmmm...... stop bogarting and pass it..... I'll have the definitive solution to this debate in no time.

"I do it because I want to" surely makes your opinion matters more than anyone else. Your biggest argument is that you know a jackass that drinks, but all the cool guy smoke weed. Wow really if you think that's a good argument you really need to get a reality check.
Welcome to irony, population: You.

That is the exact same retarded argument that can be found by the anti-pot crowd in this very thread, champ. Did you not catch that it wasn't actually and argument for anecdote (i.e. "Your biggest argument is that you know a jackass that drinks, but all the cool guy smoke weed.") but to lambaste it? Nice reading comprehension, there, slugger.

Just to help you out, Jonathan Swift doesn't really want people to eat babies.

So really, what are the positive aspect of legalizing the use of pot?
Someone already answered this for me.

Now, if you read the poll properly, it did not specifically say "pot in private places only". If it did then I would not make the argument, since it didn't, my argument stands valid.
Your argument stands retarded.

No one is advocating blowing pot smoke in the faces of children anymore than we're advocating sidewalk beers. It's stupid, you want to argue about legalization, argue it realistically.

You still did not make any valid argument about the increase in driving while stoned if pot is to be legalized. Drunk and drive is bad enough, do we need to introduce a new legal drug into society? Isn't alcohol a big enough problem in our society already?
You gave no valid statistic other than your 'guess.' I don't argue guesses.

I also don't see why children would need to have an even easier access to pot. Legalization will do just that.
See above comment.

Instead of cursing and sinking to a level that I don't need to, I felt that your argument speaks for itself, so I guess I let the other viewers be the judge as to how compelling your argument is over mine.
Learn to recognize rants and arguments. What I wrote was frustration over seeing the same stupid shit over and over again. Give me something worthwhile to argue against and then maybe we'll have something.

I'm glad you asked!

-More than 734,000 people are arrested on marijuana charges each year in the USA. That is more than the combined number of people arrested for violent crimes, including murder, rape and assault. I don't know about you, but I think it's more important to catch rapists and murderers than it is to lock up people who smoke weed.

-More than $10 billion is spent annually in prosecuting and jailing marijuana users. That's a lot of money that could be spent on productive measures, like prosecuting and jailing violent criminals.

-The US justice system is already notoriously over-taxed. Remember, prosecuting somebody takes time. Lawyers must spend time arguing the case. A judge must hear the case. Often a jury/grand jury will have to spend significant time on the case. Imagine if all that time could be spent on more productive matters (like prosecuting rapists and murderers).

-Marijuana is already among the top 10 cash crops in the USA. Profits from legalizing and taxing marijuana like other cash crops could exceed $100 billion anually.

-When a drug is illegal, crime associated with that drug increases sharply. This was seen very clearly during the Prohibition era in the US, and countless studies have confirmed that it continues with drugs that are currently illegal. When the drugs are illegal, the costs of the drugs go up, and addicts must spend more for their habit. They are more likely to resort to crime to support their habit. There also is no legal recourse if somebody is cheated in the process of buying or selling the drug, so users are more likely to resort to "vigilante justice" (read: assault/murder).

-As long as marijuana is illegal, the only people getting rich off it are criminals (by definition). Making criminals rich is counterproductive for our justice system.

-Organized crime will be crippled by the legalization of drugs. Drug trafficking provides the backbone of revenue for countless organized crime groups, and legalization of drugs will remove this entire area of profit.

-Related to the "organized crime" bit, legalization of drugs would also help stabilize foreign countries. Drug trafficking enjoys a symbiotic relationship with various cartels and guerilla groups in many nations.

-A major incentive for police corruption would be removed if marijuana were legalized.

-Legalization is also a consumer protection issue. Legalized drugs, regulated by government bodies, are of higher purity and are safer than street drugs. Consumers are also provided with more information about their drugs and drug interactions, so they can make better choices about what they consume. This leads to fewer deaths and health problems due to drug use.


Now, this is only the short list, and I know I'm leaving some important points out. But I think you get the idea.

It is important to arrest murderers/rapist sure. But are there any implication that we are inadequate in doing so?

Where do we draw the line between what is legal and what isn't? Should we legalized LSD? Or ecstasy? Or to a greater extreme, crack or heroine? In this argument it seems like so long as there are any illegal drugs, outlaw and criminals are still making money off from this. Therefore marijuana harm is non unique.

I am not too sure about the moral implication of "if we legalize a crime, then we don't have to pay policemen to enforce it". Seeing as we can say that about every single crime, I am not sure if that alone is enough to justify a crimes legalization.

If I am not mistaken, marijuana arrest and charge requires the person to process a significant amount to be jailed. At most people will only get fined (lawfully speaking) if they have a joint they are going to smoke. Of course we can argue about stereotype and double standards and racial profiling. But I believe that this is a problem rooted much deeper in our society and it's not something legalizing marijuana can solve.

It also seems like your argument is not limited to marijuana alone, but all drugs. so

If we legalize all drugs, we are simply shifting some organized crimes from drug dealing into violent crime. Throughout history organized crime exist by robbing, stealing, collecting "protection fee" from stores, etc. By cutting off their nonviolent income, they will be desperate to seek other forms of income. To say that criminals will simply disappear because we legalize all drugs is simply invalid. To survive they will simply take a more violent approach in accumulating wealth.

If we look at it this way, it cost more for our police to enforce violent crime than drug procession. It also cost more simply because the availability of drugs will lead to an increase in crime under its influence. With the combination of 2 it doesn't seem like the "crackheads now pay less for their addiction" is enough to counterbalance this change.

Which naturally goes back to your first point, we have more marijuana arrest than we do violent crime, this means that the current moment our streets are safe. We really don't want to increase the amount of violent crimes just to have more rapist/murders to catch.

Experience: I have never used it.
Position on Legality: I don't give a crap.

Could someone please explain to me how the heck "If we legalize all drugs, we are simply shifting some organized crimes from drug dealing into violent crime. Throughout history organized crime exist by robbing, stealing, collecting "protection fee" from stores, etc. By cutting off their nonviolent income, they will be desperate to seek other forms of income. To say that criminals will simply disappear because we legalize all drugs is simply invalid. To survive they will simply take a more violent approach in accumulating wealth."?

So now MJ isn't just a gateway drug to stronger drugs it's a gateway for drug lords into more violent crimes?

<shaking my head>

Freedom?.... ummmm...did you forget take your prozac today?

Welcome to irony, population: You.

That is the exact same retarded argument that can be found by the anti-pot crowd in this very thread, champ. Did you not catch that it wasn't actually and argument for anecdote (i.e. "Your biggest argument is that you know a jackass that drinks, but all the cool guy smoke weed.") but to lambaste it? Nice reading comprehension, there, slugger.

Just to help you out, Jonathan Swift doesn't really want people to eat babies.

Someone already answered this for me.

Your argument stands retarded.

No one is advocating blowing pot smoke in the faces of children anymore than we're advocating sidewalk beers. It's stupid, you want to argue about legalization, argue it realistically.

You gave no valid statistic other than your 'guess.' I don't argue guesses.

See above comment.

Learn to recognize rants and arguments. What I wrote was frustration over seeing the same stupid shit over and over again. Give me something worthwhile to argue against and then maybe we'll have something.

I am sorry you are not important enough for other people to try to convince. I post what I post to let other people see what you are trying to do. As for you? You count as 1 vote. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't see any reason why I need to do anything for your sake.

You also seem to forget that this is a public forum. Which means that from my first post it is intended for just that. One person screaming how much they hate is not statically significant enough for me to go out of my way to justify my point. Unless of course the argument is interesting and thought provoking, in the first place, which you fail to provide.

If you think you matter enough that I should care how you feel, I am sorry to tell you but I don't.

"Give me something worthwhile to argue against and then maybe we'll have something."

Maybe nobody here wants you to argue, maybe they just want you to shut up since you have nothing worthwhile to provide.

Like I said earlier I will let everyone else decide on what I said.

I met a guy this past weekend (he was the flagman on a construction crew, and I was sitting in a car on a mountain pass waiting for workemen to clear rubble from the road) who made a credible argument that pot is a gateway drug BECAUSE it is illegal.

His point was that he was told for years that pot was a terrible drug and he should never try it, so when he tried it he figured, "This isn't so bad. I wonder if they were lying to me about all that other crap, too." So he tried harder drugs, and spent 2 years as a heroin addict.

I am sorry you are not important enough for other people to try to convince. I post what I post to let other people see what you are trying to do. As for you? You count as 1 vote. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't see any reason why I need to do anything for your sake.

You also seem to forget that this is a public forum. Which means that from my first post it is intended for just that. One person screaming how much they hate is not statically significant enough for me to go out of my way to justify my point. Unless of course the argument is interesting and thought provoking, in the first place, which you fail to provide.

If you think you matter enough that I should care how you feel, I am sorry to tell you but I don't.

"Give me something worthwhile to argue against and then maybe we'll have something."

Maybe nobody here wants you to argue, maybe they just want you to shut up since you have nothing worthwhile to provide.

Like I said earlier I will let everyone else decide on what I said.

Jeez, man. You want some cheese with that? Hell, I don't even know what you're addressing.

I met a guy this past weekend (he was the flagman on a construction crew, and I was sitting in a car on a mountain pass waiting for workemen to clear rubble from the road) who made a credible argument that pot is a gateway drug BECAUSE it is illegal.

His point was that he was told for years that pot was a terrible drug and he should never try it, so when he tried it he figured, "This isn't so bad. I wonder if they were lying to me about all that other crap, too." So he tried harder drugs, and spent 2 years as a heroin addict.

You are also more likely to come across other drugs simply because you tend to meet people involved in/with access to other drugs when buying pot. Legalisation would also cut this link.

Personally I've never used recreational drugs and never will. I don't see any point in becoming temporarily stupid or confused. If there was a drug that raised your intelligence, allowed you to see reality as it is more clearly and caused you to make better thought through decisions then I'd use it.

There are several drugs like that.

For instance, you may have heard of the drug called Ritalin. It's usually prescribed for kids who have attention difficulties. However, if you give Ritalin to totally normal adults, their performance on many different intelligence measures will improve. Their focus will sharpen, they will be able to concentrate more easily and for longer periods of time, and they will score better on any number of tests.

For that matter, low doses of ephedra will do this for you as well.

It is important to arrest murderers/rapist sure. But are there any implication that we are inadequate in doing so?

What?

If you are asking whether there are any indications that we are failing to successfully combat rape and murder, then yes...I'd say the fact that one in three American women will be raped at least once in her lifetime is pretty strong evidence that we're not doing enough.

Of course, I think that one rape or one murder would be more important that every single pot-smoking event in the history of humanity. As long as there is a single murder or rape, anywhere in the country, law enforcement has something better to do than worry about pot.


Where do we draw the line between what is legal and what isn't? Should we legalized LSD? Or ecstasy? Or to a greater extreme, crack or heroine?

This is what is known as the "slippery slope falacy."

If we allow people to be nude in their own homes, WHERE DO WE DRAW THE LINE?! Before long you'll have kindergarten teachers singing the "ABC's" to a room full of 5-year-olds in the buff!


In this argument it seems like so long as there are any illegal drugs, outlaw and criminals are still making money off from this. Therefore marijuana harm is non unique.

Marijuana is the topic of this thread.


I am not too sure about the moral implication of "if we legalize a crime, then we don't have to pay policemen to enforce it". Seeing as we can say that about every single crime, I am not sure if that alone is enough to justify a crimes legalization.

Which is why I provided you with so many other wonderful reasons!


If I am not mistaken, marijuana arrest and charge requires the person to process a significant amount to be jailed.

You are mistaken.


At most people will only get fined (lawfully speaking) if they have a joint they are going to smoke. Of course we can argue about stereotype and double standards and racial profiling. But I believe that this is a problem rooted much deeper in our society and it's not something legalizing marijuana can solve.

That's lovely, and completely not helpful in any way.


It also seems like your argument is not limited to marijuana alone, but all drugs. so

No, that's okay, you can confine yourself to the topic at hand.

Instead of going off on your wild speculations, none of which are supported by research or fact, please provide counter examples. What is gained by keeping marijuana illegal?

We know that illegality does not stop use. It leads to MORE health problems related to the drug than would exist if it were legalized. It costs us money, instead of making us money. And so on.

So, really, how do we benefit from marijuana remaining illegal?

There are several drugs like that.

For instance, you may have heard of the drug called Ritalin. It's usually prescribed for kids who have attention difficulties. However, if you give Ritalin to totally normal adults, their performance on many different intelligence measures will improve. Their focus will sharpen, they will be able to concentrate more easily and for longer periods of time, and they will score better on any number of tests.

For that matter, low doses of ephedra will do this for you as well.
Yeah like Ritalin. I can understand people using that and could even picture myself using it when a deadline is coming up, when I have to do some test or if I managed to reach the finals in a strategy game tournament.

But I've heard the brain adjusts to stimulants by decreasing it's sensitivity to stimulation so when you stop using the drug your performance will be lower then normal for a while until your sensitivity recovers. This decreased sensitivity for a period after you stop using it could also lead to depression. So I haven't actually used it because I'm a bit worried it could backfire.

You need to watch out for those Master's and PhD equipped stoners. They harm society to no end with their intelligence, skills, and research.

I have something to confess... I am one such individual. Terrible, I know, but I just cannot for the life of me become a contributing citizen of my nation. I most definitely do nothing to improve it, aside from study, analyze, develop, and improve public policy.

If only I could stop toking, I might just become a good human being again. I feel like I sold my soul to the devil, or a demon, or somebody.. maybe a Rastafarian. Who knows.

Or.

Not.

There is an interesting group of folk who speak about individual rights and responsibility, but who then want to (and succeed I suppose) ban marijuana on the presumption that the individual cannot be responsible about or with it. Then there is a much less interesting group who want to ban pot and don't believe humans are all that responsible or that they should be left to their own devices. These people are more consistent, but also tend to herd... like... say... cattle.

Who listens to the opinion of cattle and inconsistent hypocrites?

(Yah I know. It was mostly in jest. Relax.)

Short and simple:

Keep it illegal

Reason: personal experience
I stopped reading right there. We played the anecdote game yesterday. I wanna play something new today.
I need to make a "Say no to drugs" image with Dubya ranting against Pot with a straw in one hand a mirror in another and white powder on his nose...
I believe there's already an image like this. Bush has some mysterious white stuff under his nose, and is going on about youthful indiscretion and sending druggies to jail. I think, I'll try and fish it up.
It is important to arrest murderers/rapist sure. But are there any implication that we are inadequate in doing so?
Until we arrest 100% of murderers and rapists it is inadequate.

Where do we draw the line between what is legal and what isn't? Should we legalized LSD?
Yes
Or ecstasy?
Yes.
Or to a greater extreme, crack or heroine?
Yes.
In this argument it seems like so long as there are any illegal drugs, outlaw and criminals are still making money off from this.
I see you're catching on.
I am not too sure about the moral implication of "if we legalize a crime, then we don't have to pay policemen to enforce it". Seeing as we can say that about every single crime, I am not sure if that alone is enough to justify a crimes legalization.
That's more a bonus that you get when you legalise it, rather than a reason to.
If I am not mistaken, marijuana arrest and charge requires the person to process a significant amount to be jailed. At most people will only get fined (lawfully speaking) if they have a joint they are going to smoke.
Varies from place to place, I imagine. What's your point?
Of course we can argue about stereotype and double standards and racial profiling. But I believe that this is a problem rooted much deeper in our society and it's not something legalizing marijuana can solve.
.........so?

It also seems like your argument is not limited to marijuana alone, but all drugs. so

If we legalize all drugs, we are simply shifting some organized crimes from drug dealing into violent crime. Throughout history organized crime exist by robbing, stealing, collecting "protection fee" from stores, etc. By cutting off their nonviolent income, they will be desperate to seek other forms of income.
So, we should let them illegally deal drugs so they won't have to resort to more violent methods of getting money? This is pretty damned retarded. To say that criminals will simply disappear because we legalize all drugs is simply invalid.
Good thing nobody is saying that.
To survive they will simply take a more violent approach in accumulating wealth.
And they'll be fairly punished for doing so, hopefully.

If we look at it this way, it cost more for our police to enforce violent crime than drug procession.
Prove it.
It also cost more simply because the availability of drugs will lead to an increase in crime under its influence.
Prove this too.

Which naturally goes back to your first point, we have more marijuana arrest than we do violent crime, this means that the current moment our streets are safe.
Assuming police are arresting a considerable majority of all criminals. No violent crime arrests doesn't imply no violent crime.
We really don't want to increase the amount of violent crimes just to have more rapist/murders to catch.
Except you haven't proven that this would happen, you just think it will.
There are several drugs like that.

For instance, you may have heard of the drug called Ritalin. It's usually prescribed for kids who have attention difficulties. However, if you give Ritalin to totally normal adults, their performance on many different intelligence measures will improve. Their focus will sharpen, they will be able to concentrate more easily and for longer periods of time, and they will score better on any number of tests.

For that matter, low doses of ephedra will do this for you as well.

Really? Interesting......

Never used it, don't intend to since it has no nutritional value.. or does it?
Can it be stewed or brewed? Or left out to dry and baked into a pie?

I can't vote in the poll since it isn't public, because there is nothing to influence my fragile mind and sway my vote.

It can be baked into cookies and brownies - Alice B. Toklas brownies. mmmm.

Yeah like Ritalin. I can understand people using that and could even picture myself using it when a deadline is coming up, when I have to do some test or if I managed to reach the finals in a strategy game tournament.

Full disclosure: I have personal experience using uppers as "performance aids" for studying. I am neither proud of nor ashamed of this. I honestly haven't made up my mind about what I think of it.

Technically speaking, if you wanted to study for an exam and have the absolute best memory and retention of the subject material, you'd want to take uppers while you studied and then IMMEDIATELY fall asleep as soon as you were done. (This is pretty much impossible, of course, since sleeping while on uppers is not usually workable.)


But I've heard the brain adjusts to stimulants by decreasing it's sensitivity to stimulation so when you stop using the drug your performance will be lower then normal for a while until your sensitivity recovers.

That's more or less the case. Chronic use of uppers has been found to lead to long-term adjustments in the brain. I wouldn't recommend it.


This decreased sensitivity for a period after you stop using it could also lead to depression. So I haven't actually used it because I'm a bit worried it could backfire.
One thing that is very common, particularly for first-time users, is an emotional and mental "crash" when coming down off the drug. There's a reason why your brain doesn't normally function at the level that uppers push it to!

I want to be really clear about something, though. Here, I'ma put it in caps:

I DO NOT THINK ROUTINE USE OF UPPERS IS A GOOD IDEA FOR THE AVERAGE PERSON.

There are some people who have legit medical reasons to take upper drugs for extended periods. Those people are exceptions to the rule. The general rule is that it's not a good plan to take uppers regularly.

Keep in mind that most uppers which are used for sharpening "mental" abilities are in the same family as diet pills and other such speed-related chemicals. You know all that stuff you hear about how popping diet pills can really fuck up your system? Yeah, most of that applies here, too.

Until we arrest 100% of murderers and rapists it is inadequate.
I'm going to dispute that. The optimal level is not 100%.

What is the optimal level then?

What is the optimal level then?
Clearly some sub-100% level.

The resources required to guarantee a failure rate of zero would be so prohibitively expensive as to make it not worth the effort.

I met a guy this past weekend (he was the flagman on a construction crew, and I was sitting in a car on a mountain pass waiting for workemen to clear rubble from the road) who made a credible argument that pot is a gateway drug BECAUSE it is illegal.

His point was that he was told for years that pot was a terrible drug and he should never try it, so when he tried it he figured, "This isn't so bad. I wonder if they were lying to me about all that other crap, too." So he tried harder drugs, and spent 2 years as a heroin addict.

damn right that's a solid reason against its current status.

couple that with the fact that to get your weed you have to go see dealers - which directly throws the casual user in line with the criminal element - whereby you will probably be pushed, one way or another, into trying harder drugs (which they make more money from), and you have a real strong case that pot being illegal is causing unnecessary harm to otherwise law-abiding citizens.

in amsterdam you buy weed from licensed coffeeshops. you can't buy harder drugs in them. as such - for a guy who just smokes pot - its that much harder to fall into using harder drugs. its also hard to find weed that's not coming from coffeeshops - we tried real hard to score some on our last night there after we'd smoked all our stash, after the coffeeshops had closed, and nobody on the streets had any weed for sale. coke, crack, heroin, yeah (as you'd find in almost any city)... but no weed. when we simply frequented the coffeeshops during the rest of our stay, we didn't encounter any of those 'harder drugs' (bar shrooms, which were awesome....;))


anecdotal evidence, maybe, but its a way in which my personal experience with the drug has shaped my view on it.


edit: woo, 18k posts :)