NationStates Jolt Archive

It seems like nowadays, doctors are more likely to just throw a pill at a perceived problem, and that people accept this because they want a quick fix.
There's been talk about children being overdiagnosed with ADHD or even that it's fabricated.
We're seeing that some medications aren't quite as safe as we once thought (eg. antidepressants that cause suicidal thoughts).
There's a lot of money to be made in the legal drug industry...

What does NSG think of all this?
Is the business just a bunch of corrupt drug dealers?

And we have been brainwashed to ASK for more medication.

Me: "Doctor, my french toast speaks to me in german."

Doc: "We have a pill to help with that."

Me: "Really? You have a pill that'll teach me german?"

Doc: "ftt... gugh..." *leaps out window*

My psychiatrists never last long. :)

It seems like nowadays, doctors are more likely to just throw a pill at a perceived problem, and that people accept this because they want a quick fix.
There's been talk about children being overdiagnosed with ADHD or even that it's fabricated.
We're seeing that some medications aren't quite as safe as we once thought (eg. antidepressants that cause suicidal thoughts).
There's a lot of money to be made in the legal drug industry...

What does NSG think of all this?
Is the business just a bunch of corrupt drug dealers?

I don't doubt that is some over emphasis and advantage taking of certain situations, but on the whole, things are fine and safe. Those ADD and ADHD cases on the rise? Good reason for it too: artificial colorings and flavorings tend harm the brain creating these problems, as was shown in some medical research I was perusing awhile ago. The cases are real, but the treatment doesn't remove the cause: it only treats the symptoms.

All of society's greatest artists* have been either crazy or abusing illegal drugs, why would we want to ruin that by medicating and rehabing them back into normality?
Plus, I was on a lot of pills for various things as a kid, and I was fucked up because of it. I actually feel better just dealing with my own mental problems, at least now I know the problem is me.

*using the word generally to refer to authors, musicians, painters, etc

I'm going with "They are mostly/all real, but occasionally mis/overdiagnosed."

Honestly, I'll never understand why people feel so much suspicion about the existence of mental disorders. You don't see nearly as many conspiracy theories surrounding, say, cirrhosis, or gallstones, or stomach ulcers. No one claims that the pharmaceutical companies and physicians have formed an evil alliance to make up a fictional disorder called "cancer" - but as soon as we start talking about ADHD or clinical depression, suddenly everyone's an expert (except, of course, for the actual experts).

All of society's greatest artists* have been either crazy or abusing illegal drugs, why would we want to ruin that by medicating and rehabing them back into normality?
Plus, I was on a lot of pills for various things as a kid, and I was fucked up because of it. I actually feel better just dealing with my own mental problems, at least now I know the problem is me.

*using the word generally to refer to authors, musicians, painters, etc

QFT(Quoted For Tacos).

I'm going with "They are mostly/all real, but occasionally mis/overdiagnosed."

Honestly, I'll never understand why people feel so much suspicion about the existence of mental disorders. You don't see nearly as many conspiracy theories surrounding, say, cirrhosis, or gallstones, or stomach ulcers. No one claims that the pharmaceutical companies and physicians have formed an evil alliance to make up a fictional disorder called "cancer" - but as soon as we start talking about ADHD or clinical depression, suddenly everyone's an expert (except, of course, for the actual experts).

What about cosmetic surgery?

There are a great many willful exaggerations and fabrications in medical practice to sell drugs. It's a business after all.

What about cosmetic surgery?

...what about it? :confused:

There are a great many willful exaggerations and fabrications in medical practice to sell drugs. It's a business after all.

Well, as long as they haven't started peddling pills to exploit men's insecurity about their penis sizes, there's still hope.

...what about it? :confused:

I was offering that as another example of (often) unnecessary medical procedures which society conditions individuals to think that they need.

Well, as long as they haven't started peddling pills to exploit men's insecurity about their penis sizes, there's still hope.

True that. :D

Hooray Pharmacy and pills!

should I be jealous that I don't have any pills :confused:

It seems like nowadays, doctors are more likely to just throw a pill at a perceived problem

This is a problem that is being addressed in the UK and elsewhere I would imagine. More and more emphasis is being placed on reducing the number of drugs individuals are taking. It was one of the reasons that C. Difficile has taken hold so much in hospitals (among other things of course) so of course it is being heavily looked at

should I be jealous that I don't have any pills :confused:

No, but if you are, just go to a psychiatrist and tell them that you were sad one time.

No, but if you are, just go to a psychiatrist and tell them that you were sad one time.

You'd have to tell them a bit more than that. Best throw in that you don't get any enjoyment from anything anymore, your sleep pattern is screwed up, you're wheepy a lot of the time (where you wouldn't normally be) and might want to throw in suicidal ideation if you really want to top it all off

I was offering that as another example of (often) unnecessary medical procedures which society conditions individuals to think that they need.

Ah, right. Because crooked noses and smallish boobs are totally analogous to a complete inability to function in day-to-day life.

I can't imagine why I didn't understand you the first time. :rolleyes:

Took me a while to find a doctor who would give me real pills. Of course, my injury isn't imaginary, and I don't abuse the perscriptions like some might, but some doctors are pretty stingy with the real stuff - they're not all tools of the pharmaceutical industry. :p

Ah, right. Because crooked noses and smallish boobs are totally analogous to a complete inability to function in day-to-day life.

I can't imagine why I didn't understand you the first time. :rolleyes:

Right. Because all diagnoses are completely debilitating.

What I'm actually suggesting, however, is that it is analogous to people who become convinced that they have depression, anxiety, insomnia, ADHD, or countless personality disorders because they saw a commercial on tv that had a cool animation.

Notice how I am not denying that say, schizophrenia exists.

It seems like nowadays, doctors are more likely to just throw a pill at a perceived problem, and that people accept this because they want a quick fix.
There's been talk about children being overdiagnosed with ADHD or even that it's fabricated.
We're seeing that some medications aren't quite as safe as we once thought (eg. antidepressants that cause suicidal thoughts).
There's a lot of money to be made in the legal drug industry...

What does NSG think of all this?
Is the business just a bunch of corrupt drug dealers?

Hmm. My dad (a doctor) always talks about doctors throwing pills at things, and he hates it. And the fact that people expect medication for everything.

Right. Because all diagnoses are completely debilitating.

What I'm actually suggesting, however, is that it is analogous to people who become convinced that they have depression, anxiety, insomnia, ADHD, or countless personality disorders because they saw a commercial on tv that had a cool animation.

Notice how I am not denying that say, schizophrenia exists.

First of all, your analogy still makes no sense, because while people may not like their smallish boobs, no one has ever claimed that smallish boobs are a medical disorder. Depression, ADHD, anxiety disorders, and so forth are. They are quantifiable, measurable, and demonstrable.

Secondly, you seem to be arguing that because non-doctors sometimes incorrectly attribute disorders to themselves or others, the disorders don't exist and/or are overdiagnosed. This does not, in fact, make even a modicum of sense.

I'm still puzzled, incidentally, as to why your suspicion seems to be limited to disorders of the brain. Why do you believe that - for example - serotonin deficiencies are imaginary, but insulin deficiencies are not?

First of all, your analogy still makes no sense, because while people may not like their smallish boobs, no one has ever claimed that smallish boobs are a medical disorder. Depression, ADHD, anxiety disorders, and so forth are. They are quantifiable, measurable, and demonstrable.

Secondly, you seem to be arguing that because non-doctors sometimes incorrectly attribute disorders to themselves or others, the disorders don't exist and/or are overdiagnosed. This does not, in fact, make even a modicum of sense.

I'm still puzzled, incidentally, as to why your suspicion seems to be limited to disorders of the brain. Why do you believe that - for example - serotonin deficiencies are imaginary, but insulin deficiencies are not?
You know, it sounds to me like he's saying thinking you have a psychological problem is--gasp and shock!--just psychological...

In other words, he's completely missing the delicious irony.

First of all, your analogy still makes no sense, because while people may not like their smallish boobs, no one has ever claimed that smallish boobs are a medical disorder. Depression, ADHD, anxiety disorders, and so forth are. They are quantifiable, measurable, and demonstrable.

Secondly, you seem to be arguing that because non-doctors sometimes incorrectly attribute disorders to themselves or others, the disorders don't exist and/or are overdiagnosed. This does not, in fact, make even a modicum of sense.

I'm still puzzled, incidentally, as to why your suspicion seems to be limited to disorders of the brain. Why do you believe that - for example - serotonin deficiencies are imaginary, but insulin deficiencies are not?

If a patient claims to have a malignant tumor, they do a biopsy, and make a diagnosis based on the test results.
If a patient claims to be depressed, they are depressed, as far as (at least some) doctors are concerned.
When diagnosing depression, doctors do not measure seritonin.

I guess what it comes down to is that there is no smoking gun, just a subjective account of the patient's emotional state.
Subjective accounts can be biased, and perhaps money plays a factor in this.

I'm going with "They are mostly/all real, but occasionally mis/overdiagnosed."

Honestly, I'll never understand why people feel so much suspicion about the existence of mental disorders. You don't see nearly as many conspiracy theories surrounding, say, cirrhosis, or gallstones, or stomach ulcers. No one claims that the pharmaceutical companies and physicians have formed an evil alliance to make up a fictional disorder called "cancer" - but as soon as we start talking about ADHD or clinical depression, suddenly everyone's an expert (except, of course, for the actual experts).

I guess because there is less of a divide between an individual's personality and his psychology. Someone who is insensitive could have Asperger's, or they could just be a rude person. There's not really a "cancerous" personality.

If a patient claims to have a malignant tumor, they do a biopsy, and make a diagnosis based on the test results.
If a patient claims to be depressed, they are depressed, as far as (at least some) doctors are concerned.
When diagnosing depression, doctors do not measure seritonin.

I guess what it comes down to is that there is no smoking gun, just a subjective account of the patient's emotional state.
Subjective accounts can be biased, and perhaps money plays a factor in this.

Um, actually, brain scans can be done demonstrating the existence of mental disorders. Considering the price of such scans, though, it would be ludicrously stupid to scan every patient because they might just be lying about their symptoms for...uh...the sheer fun of taking drugs with dozens of nasty side effects?

Furthermore, you seem to have the mistaken idea that mental disorders do not produce effects discernible to observers, which is utter nonsense. To give a personal example, after I had been on my latest antidepressant - and the first one that's really worked well for me - for about a month, I went for a checkup at my psychiatrist's office, and the first thing he said when I walked in the door was, "Oh, wow. The Paxil's helping, huh?" I hadn't said a word. The difference between someone with untreated bipolar II and PTSD and someone whose disorders are being helped with medication is that freaking obvious.

And, of course, mental disorders are far from the only medical problems diagnosed from descriptions and observation of symptoms rather than exceedingly expensive tests. If I go to my doctor and say, "after I eat spicy foods, I feel a burning pain in my chest," he isn't going to run tests before diagnosing heartburn. If I go to my doctor and say, "my eyes are itchy and pink, and my coworker had pinkeye last week," he's not going to run a test before diagnosing conjunctivitis. If I go to my doctor and say, "This cut on my arm seems to be infected," he's not going to run a test before prescribing antibiotics. That doesn't make those decisions subjective.

I guess because there is less of a divide between an individual's personality and his psychology. Someone who is insensitive could have Asperger's, or they could just be a rude person. There's not really a "cancerous" personality.

Well, yes and no. Personality disorders do get a lot thornier than mood disorders and such, because one gets into the issue of defining what one's personality "should" be, but speaking as someone with multiple friends with Asperger's, I find it, at least, impossible to confuse with simple rudeness. (I'm not, however, a doctor or an expert on autism spectrum disorders, so I won't pursue that point in much more detail.)

Most other mental disorders, though, for all their complexity, are more easily separable from one's personality. They may be comparatively hard to measure right now, but it's not because they're in any way non-quantifiable, but rather because we simply know less about the workings of the brain than any other organ by far. As we learn more, we do figure out, for example, that some people's brains produce far less serotonin than the norm, and that those people experience the symptoms of clinical depression. This is really no different than finding that some people's pancreases produce far less insulin than the norm, and that those people experience the symptoms of diabetes.

Um, actually, brain scans can be done demonstrating the existence of mental disorders. Considering the price of such scans, though, it would be ludicrously stupid to scan every patient because they might just be lying about their symptoms for...uh...the sheer fun of taking drugs with dozens of nasty side effects?

Furthermore, you seem to have the mistaken idea that mental disorders do not produce effects discernible to observers, which is utter nonsense. To give a personal example, after I had been on my latest antidepressant - and the first one that's really worked well for me - for about a month, I went for a checkup at my psychiatrist's office, and the first thing he said when I walked in the door was, "Oh, wow. The Paxil's helping, huh?" I hadn't said a word. The difference between someone with untreated bipolar II and PTSD and someone whose disorders are being helped with medication is that freaking obvious.

And, of course, mental disorders are far from the only medical problems diagnosed from descriptions and observation of symptoms rather than exceedingly expensive tests. If I go to my doctor and say, "after I eat spicy foods, I feel a burning pain in my chest," he isn't going to run tests before diagnosing heartburn. If I go to my doctor and say, "my eyes are itchy and pink, and my coworker had pinkeye last week," he's not going to run a test before diagnosing conjunctivitis. If I go to my doctor and say, "This cut on my arm seems to be infected," he's not going to run a test before prescribing antibiotics. That doesn't make those decisions subjective.

Seriously? They can perform some sort of brain scan? What're we talking about here exactly? EEG? Catscan? (And what exactly are those anyway?)

It seems like nowadays, doctors are more likely to just throw a pill at a perceived problem, and that people accept this because they want a quick fix.
There's been talk about children being overdiagnosed with ADHD or even that it's fabricated.
We're seeing that some medications aren't quite as safe as we once thought (eg. antidepressants that cause suicidal thoughts).
There's a lot of money to be made in the legal drug industry...

What does NSG think of all this?
Is the business just a bunch of corrupt drug dealers?

ADHD and ADD don't exist. They are a fabrication by the doctors and pharmaceutical industry to make money. I rarely take medicine unless I'm really sick. I fought my year-long depression on my own. :)

It seems like nowadays, doctors are more likely to just throw a pill at a perceived problem, and that people accept this because they want a quick fix.
There's been talk about children being overdiagnosed with ADHD or even that it's fabricated.
We're seeing that some medications aren't quite as safe as we once thought (eg. antidepressants that cause suicidal thoughts).
There's a lot of money to be made in the legal drug industry...

What does NSG think of all this?
Is the business just a bunch of corrupt drug dealers?

Meh. This bullshit sickens me and I'm not going to get dragged into arguing it again.

Some of us depend for our very lives on this medication for these disorders that you so casually dismiss.

There has "been talk" of all sorts of things. That is a far cry from that thing being true. Do you have any evidence that ADD/ADHD is overdiagnosed or fabricated? That any major psychological disorder is overdiagnosed or fabricated? Or are you just furthering the cycle of ignorance and FUD?

ADHD and ADD don't exist. They are a fabrication by the doctors and pharmaceutical industry to make money. I rarely take medicine unless I'm really sick. I fought my year-long depression on my own. :)

Hey, you know what else doesn't exist? Cancer. It's just a plot made up by doctors to make money. I mean, getting killed by out-of-control cell replication? That's just crazy talk! Plus, I thought I had cancer once, and I didn't die, so that totally proves it's fake.

FUD?

FUD?

Hey, you know what else doesn't exist? Cancer. It's just a plot made up by doctors to make money. I mean, getting killed by out-of-control cell replication? That's just crazy talk! Plus, I thought I had cancer once, and I didn't die, so that totally proves it's fake.

Wait a second...that logic doesn't work. It's just a scam to get money, but yet you had it, and yet having it proves it's fake?

Plus, while cancer is life threatening, it does not ensure death, even without treatment, though it certainly ensures a shorter life span and a more uncomfortable life.

In other words, that logic is absolutely ridiculous and isn't even logic at all.

...

Which of course is the point, I know. I just feel like addressing it.

Seriously? They can perform some sort of brain scan? What're we talking about here exactly? EEG? Catscan? (And what exactly are those anyway?)

Seriously! I've seen some really cool scans (of various types - I always get which is which mixed up, anyway :p ) showing the difference in brain patterns between people with/without ADHD, with/without schizophrenia, and so forth. It's fascinating stuff. :)

In other words, that logic is absolutely ridiculous and isn't even logic at all.

...

Which of course is the point, I know. I just feel like addressing it.

Shush, you, spoiling my oh-so-subtle mockery! ;)

Well, yes and no. Personality disorders do get a lot thornier than mood disorders and such, because one gets into the issue of defining what one's personality "should" be, but speaking as someone with multiple friends with Asperger's, I find it, at least, impossible to confuse with simple rudeness. (I'm not, however, a doctor or an expert on autism spectrum disorders, so I won't pursue that point in much more detail.)
I agree, and I didn't mean my example to be authoritative. But most disorders affect the personality. If a doctor gives someone a drug that changes his personality (even if it's for the better), people are going to be suspicious. It seems a little too Brave New World, I suppose.
I don't wish to defend people who are suspicious of psychiatry, but I can understand why that field would be under more scrutiny than podiatry.

Seriously! I've seen some really cool scans (of various types - I always get which is which mixed up, anyway :p ) showing the difference in brain patterns between people with/without ADHD, with/without schizophrenia, and so forth. It's fascinating stuff. :)
Neat. I can tell you this much: if I was interested in becoming a medical specialist of any sort, I would certainly turn to the brain and neurology.

Shush, you, spoiling my oh-so-subtle mockery! ;)
Oh damn. I seem to have made an error in judgment.

Neat. I can tell you this much: if I was interested in becoming a medical specialist of any sort, I would certainly turn to the brain and neurology.


Oh damn. I seem to have made an error in judgment.

Hehe. Note the wink, please. I'm not exactly upset.

And, yes, neuroscience is ridiculously cool. If I'd been self-destructive enough to try to major in four things simultaneously, it probably would have been the fourth. :)

I fail at research and can't find a source, but I believe that it's common knowledge that the number of antidepressant prescriptions has risen dramatically up until the black box warnings (call bullshit if necessary).

Did more people become depressed, did more people realize they were depressed, or did the industry's marketing team convince more healthy people that they have a disorder?

Ehh... here's an abstract (http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0741-6261(199621)27%3A1%3C99%3APFIACS%3E2.0.CO%3B2-S) of a study suggesting that finacial incentives may be influencing doctors' decisions.
I can't find a free version of the whole thing.

Note: I am not saying that all doctors are corrupt. I am merely suggesting that in some situations, particularly psychiatry, money may play a factor.

Hehe. Note the wink, please. I'm not exactly upset.

I know. It was meant with a facetiously pretentious air...I'd offer an example but I can't think of one.

And, yes, neuroscience is ridiculously cool. If I'd been self-destructive enough to try to major in four things simultaneously, it probably would have been the fourth. :)
What were the other three?

ADHD and ADD don't exist. They are a fabrication by the doctors and pharmaceutical industry to make money. I rarely take medicine unless I'm really sick. I fought my year-long depression on my own. :)

They exist. I have ADD. But I object to it being referred to as a 'disorder' and treated like a disease. It is a different mental order with it's own advantages and disadvantages. *nod*

They exist. I have ADD. But I object to it being referred to as a 'disorder' and treated like a disease. It is a different mental order with it's own advantages and disadvantages. *nod*

I would think that the disadvantages outway any possible advantages.

What would those be, anyway? The advantages, I mean.

I agree, and I didn't mean my example to be authoritative. But most disorders affect the personality. If a doctor gives someone a drug that changes his personality (even if it's for the better), people are going to be suspicious. It seems a little too Brave New World, I suppose.
I don't wish to defend people who are suspicious of psychiatry, but I can understand why that field would be under more scrutiny than podiatry.

Sure, and I do understand it, up to a point. It's a lot harder to look at a brain than a foot, after all. As it happens, I was actually misdiagnosed with ADD as a child, amusingly enough, so I certainly went through a phase where I believed that ADD was a myth invented to torture kids like me, who were mostly just too bright for their schools (and showing early symptoms of bipolar II, though I didn't know that at the time), by destroying our lovely geektastic personalities. I was, however, about seven years old during that phase. By the time I was eight or nine, I'd encountered people for whom Ritalin was a godsend, and had thus figured out that my own misdiagnosis was piss-poor evidence against the existence of ADD/ADHD. I'm just baffled, as an adult, by folks who surely have met a great many people with depression, ADHD, bipolar disorder, anxiety disorders, and so forth in their lives, and who still hold the same sort of silly beliefs that I outgrew by the time I was in third grade.

Does anyone actually belive ADD exi-oh look a monkey!

No seriously I think ADD is WAY overdiagnosed.

They exist. I have ADD. But I object to it being referred to as a 'disorder' and treated like a disease. It is a different mental order with it's own advantages and disadvantages. *nod*

Somehow, that's not surprising. (Sorry, it's just the name: "Lunatic Goofballs.")

I know. It was meant with a facetiously pretentious air...I'd offer an example but I can't think of one.

What were the other three?

Music, English, and chemistry, in that order. I almost triple-majored before I realized that that would involve not sleeping for three years or so. Instead, I stuck with the first and merely took lots of classes in the latter two. (Sadly, I only managed the intro class for neuroscience - all the others required prereqs I simply didn't have time to take.)

They exist. I have ADD. But I object to it being referred to as a 'disorder' and treated like a disease. It is a different mental order with it's own advantages and disadvantages. *nod*

Heh. I've actually struggled with the term "disorder" for years. I have no problem applying it to my PTSD - that's unambiguously not a part of me, but a nasty, miserable disease - but my bipolar II is a bit trickier. Sure, I spend a lot of time being deeply, deeply unhappy, which sucks greatly, but there are perks, too. Evidence strongly suggests some sort of correlation between creative intelligence and mood disorders, especially bipolar disorder, and there's no doubt that the correlation holds true in my case. So, is my creativity also part of my "disorder"? Who knows?

At this point, I've made my peace with the terminology, but there's no doubt it's harder to think of oneself as having a disorder of the brain than a disorder of, say, the spleen. Spleens are nice and all, but they just don't define who one is as a person the way brains do.

Somehow, that's not surprising. (Sorry, it's just the name: "Lunatic Goofballs.")
Wow. Finally realized that, eh chief? You're really sharp.

Music, English, and chemistry, in that order. I almost triple-majored before I realized that that would involve not sleeping for three years or so. Instead, I stuck with the first and merely took lots of classes in the latter two. (Sadly, I only managed the intro class for neuroscience - all the others required prereqs I simply didn't have time to take.)

Oh...very interesting. What exactly in music are you majoring in? You'll forgive me but I know very little about college majors, so if that's a stupid question, I apologize in advance.

Oh...very interesting. What exactly in music are you majoring in? You'll forgive me but I know very little about college majors, so if that's a stupid question, I apologize in advance.

Majored, not majoring. I'm an Old Fogey (okay, not really, but an older-than-you fogey...). ;) And it's not at all a stupid question - I went for an emphasis in theory/composition, though I briefly switched into a music education program before switching back. At some point, I'd really really really really like to go back and get an MFA in choral conducting, too, but whether I'll ever be able to afford that is somewhat doubtful.

I would think that the disadvantages outway any possible advantages.

What would those be, anyway? The advantages, I mean.

One of the bigger ones that is fairly common in people with ADHD and ADD is calle 'hyperfocus'.

Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperfocus

But generally speaking, people with ADHD often make intuitive leaps and notice details that most people miss. *nod*

Majored, not majoring. I'm an Old Fogey (okay, not really, but an older-than-you fogey...). ;) And it's not at all a stupid question - I went for an emphasis in theory/composition, though I briefly switched into a music education program before switching back. At some point, I'd really really really really like to go back and get an MFA in choral conducting, too, but whether I'll ever be able to afford that is somewhat doubtful.

Neat. Sounds like it would be fun.
One of the bigger ones that is fairly common in people with ADHD and ADD is calle 'hyperfocus'.

Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperfocus

But generally speaking, people with ADHD often make intuitive leaps and notice details that most people miss. *nod*
Interesting...I wonder if it's possible to maintain those advantages while getting rid of the disadvantages...

Neat. Sounds like it would be fun.

Interesting...I wonder if it's possible to maintain those advantages while getting rid of the disadvantages...

There's a considerable amount of debate and speculation as to what qualifies as 'normal' neurological acivity and how broad the variation ought to be. But I wasn't diagnosed with ADD until I was 25. I had spent my whole life developing coping mechanisms. Understanding how they worked and why I needed them really helped me hone the ability to self-accomodate.

Oh, don't get me wrong. There are relatively simple things I'll never be good at( I remember everything. Just not usually in time. :p ). But I've learned to minimize those disadvantages and maximize my advantages(I remember things through habit and pattern association). I think I cope fairly we...

...Ooh! A quarter! *pounces*

I fail at research and can't find a source, but I believe that it's common knowledge that the number of antidepressant prescriptions has risen dramatically up until the black box warnings (call bullshit if necessary).

Did more people become depressed, did more people realize they were depressed, or did the industry's marketing team convince more healthy people that they have a disorder?

Are you deliberatly trying to insult and demean those that have mental illnesses? Our problems are just as real as those caused by other types of disease.

As opposed to your speculation, here is an article (http://www.nimh.nih.gov/science-news/2007/drops-in-ssri-prescription-rates-may-coincide-with-increases-in-youth-suicides.shtml) about evidence that decreasing use of antidepressants (due to black box warnings) is linked to increased suicides. How do you explain that?



Ehh... here's an abstract (http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0741-6261(199621)27%3A1%3C99%3APFIACS%3E2.0.CO%3B2-S) of a study suggesting that finacial incentives may be influencing doctors' decisions.
I can't find a free version of the whole thing.

Note: I am not saying that all doctors are corrupt. I am merely suggesting that in some situations, particularly psychiatry, money may play a factor.

Um. Did you read that abstract before linking it? It says nothing whatsoever that supports your speculation.

As the abstract you link is about the frequency of cesearan sections correlated with declines in fertility, your speculation that "particularly psychiatry" is subject to monetary pressures is untrue on its face.

Seriously? They can perform some sort of brain scan? What're we talking about here exactly? EEG? Catscan? (And what exactly are those anyway?)

There are several different ways that brain scans and other "objective" tests have been used to diagnose/confirm mental illness.

Here is one site (http://amenclinics.com/bp/) that discusses just one such scan, SPECT analysis.

There's been talk about children being overdiagnosed with ADHD or even that it's fabricated.

ADHD and ADD don't exist. They are a fabrication by the doctors and pharmaceutical industry to make money.

Yes, the vast medical conspiracy that rivals the alien cover-up and the JFK assassination.

This link (http://www.help4adhd.org/en/about/science) shows reports proving the existence of ADD/ADHD by:
American Medical Association
Surgeon General of the United States
National Institutes of Health (NIH)
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)
2002 International Consensus Statement on AD/HD (roughly 100 scientists worldwide)
American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP)
American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry (AACAP)
Mayo Clinic

Do any of you have any evidence whatsoever (let alone evidence comparable to that cited above) that ADD/ADHD does not exist?

I rarely take medicine unless I'm really sick.

Good for you. But many mental illnesses count as being "really sick."

I fought my year-long depression on my own. :)

Again, good for you. But perhaps your experience is not the same as everyone else? For example, it seems likely that your depression was not as severe as that suffered by others.

While we are on the subject of actual evidence. Let's look at some evidence regarding the reality of mental illnesses.

Mental Health: A Report of the Surgeon General (http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/mentalhealth/home.html)
This landmark report documents that mental disorders are real, and that the efficacy of treatments is well-documented in the scientific and medical literature

Here (http://www.nimh.nih.gov/index.shtml) is the website of the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH).

Here (http://www.nami.org/Content/NavigationMenu/Inform_Yourself/About_Mental_Illness/About_Mental_Illness.htm) is information from the National Alliance on Mental Illness.

Please review and respond to these materials before engaging in further rank speculation about mental illnesses.

I'm going with "They are mostly/all real, but occasionally mis/overdiagnosed."

Honestly, I'll never understand why people feel so much suspicion about the existence of mental disorders. You don't see nearly as many conspiracy theories surrounding, say, cirrhosis, or gallstones, or stomach ulcers. No one claims that the pharmaceutical companies and physicians have formed an evil alliance to make up a fictional disorder called "cancer" - but as soon as we start talking about ADHD or clinical depression, suddenly everyone's an expert (except, of course, for the actual experts).

truth

I don't doubt that is some over emphasis and advantage taking of certain situations, but on the whole, things are fine and safe. Those ADD and ADHD cases on the rise? Good reason for it too: artificial colorings and flavorings tend harm the brain creating these problems, as was shown in some medical research I was perusing awhile ago. The cases are real, but the treatment doesn't remove the cause: it only treats the symptoms. There is no cure though.

And don't forget the Gulf War children. Gulf War syndrome in their parents and stuff led to a large increase in children with mental disorders as well.


Honestly, I'll never understand why people feel so much suspicion about the existence of mental disorders. You don't see nearly as many conspiracy theories surrounding, say, cirrhosis, or gallstones, or stomach ulcers. No one claims that the pharmaceutical companies and physicians have formed an evil alliance to make up a fictional disorder called "cancer" - but as soon as we start talking about ADHD or clinical depression, suddenly everyone's an expert (except, of course, for the actual experts).
Problem is is that unlike cancer you can't physically "See" a mental disorder.

As for the people who say they don't exist...

I have a sociopath\schitzo I'd like you to meet. XD

If it's all made up then you are perfectly safe right? RIGHT?

Idiots, the lot of you.

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I've helped with a special education as a part time job.
Do NOT tell me that it's all made up.

There is no cure though.

For now, at least. However, to cure a disease, you first have to know what causes it, and that's exactly what the main focus behind mental-illness research is; these medicines treat these illnesses, and in doing so show how you can develop cures for them.

For now, at least. However, to cure a disease, you first have to know what causes it, and that's exactly what the main focus behind mental-illness research is; these medicines treat these illnesses, and in doing so show how you can develop cures for them.
But they aren't even diseases... They're disorders.

If you're born with a missing arm can you "Cure" that?

Can you cure diabeties?

If someone fries a hole in their brain from drug use, can you just throw something in to fix it?

If a part of your brain is wired wrong it's not like you can untangle it.

Not really.
(Unless someone can get the stem cell research going again)

While I do not doubt that many mental illnesses are real, I wonder if the illnesses are always more harmful than the cures?

While I do not doubt that many mental illnesses are real, I wonder if the illnesses are always more harmful than the cures?
Depending on what you are going to do in life.