NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok i'm sixteen and I go to a fairly balanced high school in terms of politics. However, recently i've been studying independently outside of the classroom on marxism and communism, because I really want to develop my own idea of what both ideologies are instead of teachers feeding us what is right or wrong. Anyways, what I found is marxism and communism are separate ideologies but people always associate both of them, anyways at school I raise the question with my fellow classmates challenging them on what they actually know about both ideology. They only know what teachers taught them, now I'm not a communist marxist or anything but to me it seems it's gotten bad reception by everyone. I'm not preaching communism or marxism is right or wrong, but I'm reading on marxism and telling my friends from what I derived what it's principles are, that it's independent of the whole communism believes. Is this wrong? I'm really just challenging my friends on how schools teach you to conform and what to think? I really don't want to think like everyone else and I want my friends to start question what they're learning in the classroom.

On what basis, exactly, are you distinguishing between "Marxism" and "communism"?

Certainly not all of communism is encompassed in Marxism, but Marxism is definitely a communist ideology.

Sounds good, recommend Marx's Manifesto to them, it will probably sum up the 'marxist' ideology. Unless I have no idea what I am talking about.

It is never wrong to learn about absolutely anything ever.

Sounds good, recommend Marx's Manifesto to them, it will probably sum up the 'marxist' ideology. Unless I have no idea what I am talking about.

Hehe, in my situation, I doubt a school full of kids who skipped to the ending pages of Deathly Hallows would survive reading the Manifesto past page 2.

it probably was a bad idea doing this anyway, talking about it school.

it probably was a bad idea doing this anyway, talking about it school.

No, you brought less than common ideas to students who were probably spending most of their day learning about something that is generally monotonous and useless.

Be proud of your knowledge.

Hehe, in my situation, I doubt a school full of kids who skipped to the ending pages of Deathly Hallows would survive reading the Manifesto past page 2.

Hah. Is the Manifesto really that long? Or did I read an abridged version.... I got it off the internet for a philosophy assignment, it couldn't have been more than 30 pages.

It seems in our society if you question anything that is abnormal or how has been misinterpreted then automatically your labeled as anti-capitalist anti-everything. I just want my generation to start questioning

It seems in our society if you question anything that is abnormal or how has been misinterpreted then automatically your labeled as anti-capitalist anti-everything. I just want my generation to start questioning

Send them our way, we can straighten em out real quick, or bend them askew.. whichever is necessary for progressive thinking.

no my generation just doesn't need to conform because they think it's the right thing to do. There seems to be no individuality anymore, every kid in school dresses up like prep, skater, emo, goth, any of that. I don't know I should realize most people don't have an interest in theories or concepts of government, and they feel that teachers are always correct about everything.

Well communism existed long before Marxism, which in itself was a synthesis of the Industrial Revolution and working class, you also have the scarcity communism - which is about agrarianism and distribution according to need, which was the traditional way to do things. It was the creation of surplus accumulation value in industrial and manufacturing that was the basis of Marxism. Some earlier communism ideology I spose would be Christianity (apostolic ideology), primitivism tribal stuff, as well as the Levellers/Jacobins, French revolutionary ideals etc etc..

Most people associate "communism" with the disgusting Stalinist regime that was Russia post ~1924 and the equally horrifying post-"revolution" china. The Marxism you're probably reading about has (as you will have established) nothing to do with that, though there are many apologists and those dedicated to capitalism who will beg to differ. Rather it is a theory used to understand the world and try and reshape it to benefit the majority of people rather than just the wealthy. Teachers are often either unaware of the distinction, are confused by the curriculum which makes no distinction at all or legitimately dislike the ideas of marxism.

I recommend looking here (http://www.sa.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=139&Itemid=113) or here (http://www.iso.org.nz/section.php?Section=about) for a great overview of marxist ideals. They're new zealand and australia based groups but the ideas are reasonably universal. To be quite frank, i would stay well away from the communist manifesto until you had a bit of grounding in marxist theory because when i first read it it appeared quite contradictory in places. You also need to be careful about the different currents of marxist. A lot of people are under the delusion that russia and china were/are socialist, so clearly following their plans will have predictable, horrific results.

I like Marx's theories, as much because they provides a unique way of looking at the events happening around the world as because they (with the input of lenin, trotsky and many others) are guidelines to creating a truly better world. Keep reading and see what you think.

no my generation just doesn't need to conform because they think it's the right thing to do. There seems to be no individuality anymore, every kid in school dresses up like prep, skater, emo, goth, any of that. I don't know I should realize most people don't have an interest in theories or concepts of government, and they feel that teachers are always correct about everything.

Seems pretty diverse to me.
People will always associate/dress/drift towards groups that they feel they fit in with or have something in common with. But there are a few lone wolves out there, usually end up dying of scurvy..

Another interesting read: "what is the real Marxist tradition" (http://www.marxisme.dk/arkiv/molyneux/realmarx/index.htm)

no my generation just doesn't need to conform because they think it's the right thing to do. There seems to be no individuality anymore, every kid in school dresses up like prep, skater, emo, goth, any of that. I don't know I should realize most people don't have an interest in theories or concepts of government, and they feel that teachers are always correct about everything.
Hate to tell you this, but it was the same when I went to high school 10 years ago and the same when my parents were in, and their parents, and so on. The groups change, but it pretty much remains the same.

Sadly, most people DON'T care about government theories, or government period. This forum is a little different in that arguing about government (And everything else) is the norm and most of us feel strongly about our positions so...

As for teachers being always correct. Of course we are always correct. Didn't you know that? ;)Speaking as a teacher who forgot that there was a three day weekend and wrote the wrong day up on the board and got called on it by a class full of 5th graders.^_~

No, you brought less than common ideas to students who were probably spending most of their day learning about something that is generally monotonous and useless.

Be proud of your knowledge.

Like communism?

I am half serious about this