NationStates Jolt Archive

This article (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/19/ncre119.xml) does provide illumination upon the state of our wonderfully multicultural Britain, no?

But wait, in light of this painfully self-evident fact, does the government curb EU migration? Nooooooo no no. How prudent that would be. Far better to sacrifice what little unity, and, for that matter, green belt, we have left at the altar of a failed ideology.

So you're saying racism and intolerance are a bad thing? I'm confused as to your point.

This article (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/19/ncre119.xml) does provide illumination upon the state of our wonderfully multicultural Britain, no?

But wait, in light of this painfully self-evident fact, does the government curb EU migration? Nooooooo no no. How prudent that would be. Far better to sacrifice what little unity, and, for that matter, green belt, we have left at the altar of a failed ideology.

Relitivity going on here, coz it is 'painfully self-evidant' to me that interacial tensions are not as high as say 20 years ago, and racial intergration is far far better.

that article merely illustrates how poorly multiculturalism is handled and adjusted to, not that it is a bad thing in itself.

that article merely illustrates how poorly multiculturalism is handled and adjusted to, not that it is a bad thing in itself.

How else could it be handled?

Face it; decades of immigration policy have been an abject failure. Fuck all has changed, short of forcing racial tensions below the surface through a plethora of laws restricting free speech and "hate crime".

Bloody hell, what a shocker.

After the various terrorist attacks blamed on Muslims, and the tabloid rags' incessant attacks on immigration from Eastern Europe, people are becoming more and more intolerant?

Crikey. What a surprise.

You cannot curb EU migration without withdrawing from the EU. Every EU citizen has the right of abode and the right to work in any EU country.

A special clause was negotiated for the new accession states so that migration would be limited for the first few years after their accession. This wasn't permanent, just a mechanism to allow gradual adjustment. And to be frank Eastern European immigration is a 10th of what the British government expected.

I'd agree with IR about how poorly multiculturalism is handled in the UK. 15 government departments failing to meet their own obligations on tackling discrimination.

The 'community' was destroyed by Thatcher, and no government since has made any real effort to reinvigorate communities.

So when when minority groups begin to come together to form communities in areas where they is no active community they are lambasted for being anti-social by people who don't even know their neighbours name's. It's a real hypocrisy.

How else could it be handled?

Face it; decades of immigration policy have been an abject failure. Fuck all has changed, short of forcing racial tensions below the surface through a plethora of laws restricting free speech and "hate crime".

So clearly the solution is to kick out all foreigners, adopt a strict isolationist policy and subjugate all the evil brown people?

If anything, the report and article show that we need to encourage more integration, as opposed to segregation, of different ethnic groups. Problems occur when people aren’t integrating, not when they are; when multiculturalism is being mishandled, not when it is being applied well.

But don’t let that stop you, or the Torygraph, from misinterpreting the report, or launching a thinly-veiled, xenophobic attack on immigrants. Oh no.

And what’s with the language of ‘altars’ whenever multiculturalism is brought up?

How else could it be handled?

Face it; decades of immigration policy have been an abject failure. Fuck all has changed, short of forcing racial tensions below the surface through a plethora of laws restricting free speech and "hate crime".

the problem as i see it has been the focus of policies for integration. the focus for many years has been on making immigrants integrate with only lip service being paid to educating 'natives' to accept immigrants and immigration as beneficial to the economy and cultural enrichment (which they are). of course telling people what they can and cannot say does not work when enforced by law without any coherent reasoning given.

and Dunes has got a point there with the anti-society stance of Thatcher and subsequent hypocrisy, i hadn't considered that before.

Dude... that's the Telegraph. That's like reading the Pravada for unbiased reports on Nicholas' policies...

i can't see how the country is "in danger of breaking up"

and apart from that the article really didn't say anything. racism and racial tensions have gone down in the last 30 years. there are still tensions, however. where's the news?

i can't see how the country is "in danger of breaking up"

and apart from that the article really didn't say anything. racism and racial tensions have gone down in the last 30 years. there are still tensions, however. where's the news?

this isn't supposed to be news, this is just typical populist alarmism.

well it isn't from the Mail, so i gave it some credence. but, yeah...


i did love the "in danger of breaking up" part. if that's not alarmist (and pointless) i don't know what is.

well, as far as i'm concerned the telegraph is the daily mail for people who wouldn't be seen dead reading a tabloid.

this isn't supposed to be news, this is just typical populist alarmism.

well it isn't from the Mail, so i gave it some credence. but, yeah...


i did love the "in danger of breaking up" part. if that's not alarmist (and pointless) i don't know what is.

I did love the “in danger of breaking up” part. if that’s not alarmist (and pointless) i don’t know what is.
Immigrants are chipping away at the foundations of Britain as we type! They are, quite literally, breaking up Britain, so they can steal Yorkshire and take it back to their evil lair in Islamoterroristotopia.

*nods*

Doesn't the country's economy require these migrants and their cheap labour anyway? Curbing migration would be a terrible idea.

Immigrants are chipping away at the foundations of Britain as we type! They are, quite literally, breaking up Britain, so they can steal Yorkshire and take it back to their evil lair in Islamoterroristotopia.

*nods*

Well at least we'd (Leeds U) would be in a higher division....works for me....

Doesn’t the country’s economy require these migrants and their cheap labour anyway? Curbing migration would be a terrible idea.
Exactly.

To take Scotland as an example, our economy depends on immigrants. Without them, our population will in a few years be too old to support itself. And for the first time in 20 years, thanks to immigrants, Scotland’s population is actually rising!

I need to find a source for this I know, but I remember reading that currently in Europe there are three workers for every one elderly person depending on those young workers. By the time I’m a pensioner (around 2050), if current population trends continue, there’ll only be one worker for every elderly person.

We need immigrants.

We need ‘multiculturalism’. Hell, show me one society on Terra that doesn’t support multiple cultures. Yes, there will always be troublemakers, as in any area of society, but that doesn’t mean we should tar all with the same brush.

Hell, show me one society on Terra that doesn’t support multiple cultures.
France.

France.
France does indeed have major problems with it’s non-white population, but that’s a fault of silly governmental attitudes to non-whites over the last 50 years, and a tendency to segregate the French people into unequal little blocks

However, many cultures live side-by-side happily in France, including record numbers of Brits (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2154249,00.html).

France does indeed have major problems with it’s non-white population, but that’s a fault of silly governmental attitudes to non-whites over the last 50 years, and a tendency to segregate the French people into unequal little blocks

However, many cultures live side-by-side happily in France, including record numbers of Brits (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2154249,00.html).
I was referring more to the point about France wanting everyone to have a French identity rather than that of their communities. But meh.

I was referring more to the point about France wanting everyone to have a French identity rather than that of their communities. But meh.
Then we’re talking about the semantics of ‘culture’.

So meh it is.

Snip.

So let me get this straight.

You see an article.
That article has a point to "prove".
The point of a report by a third source is different from the point of the article.
The article goes ahead and uses the report as its source anyways.
The article, thus, deviates from the point its source has.
You then use the article to "prove" a THIRD point, a point you think you have.
That "point" you try to prove is different both from the "point" of the article and from the actual point of the report.

All so you can fap about how evil those brown people are.

The only thing you're being successful at in this thread is making us believe you're a moron.

This article (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/19/ncre119.xml) does provide illumination upon the state of our wonderfully multicultural Britain, no?

But wait, in light of this painfully self-evident fact, does the government curb EU migration? Nooooooo no no. How prudent that would be. Far better to sacrifice what little unity, and, for that matter, green belt, we have left at the altar of a failed ideology.
What does this have to do with EU immigration anyway.

We can't do jack all about EU immigration without withdrawing from the EU. And you know as well as I do that that isn't going to happen any time soon, even if every single MP in the Commons had a change of heart and became a raging europhobe. And considering we have an SNP government in Scotland, a Plaid coalition in Wales and permanent SDLP/Sinn Fein representation in the NI executive, I think we're doing enough to destabilise the Reich already, unless I just missed Cambridgeshire seceding to form a Polish republic.

And, if we didn't have people in English only enclaves in Spain and Cyprus moaning that there's too many Evil Muslim Terrorists and Unbritish Black Gangsters in a city they've only read about in the Daily Mail we might be in a position to criticise EU migrants for not integrating.

If anything, this article proves we need more integration, not less, and that we are moving in the right direction from 20 years ago. But then, I'd say that since your goddess Thatcher came to power, there's not been much of a society for anyone to integrate into, black or white.

Immigrants are chipping away at the foundations of Britain as we type! They are, quite literally, breaking up Britain, so they can steal Yorkshire and take it back to their evil lair in Islamoterroristotopia.

*nods*

:eek: they've taken the Isle of Wight already!!


...ah, nobody will care ;)
(though we'll miss Carisbrooke :fluffle: )

We need immigrants.
Do we really need them? And who's 'we' in this? Seems to me that the main beneficiaries of immigration are the businessmen who get cheap labour, and I don't care one bit about them. I doubt that an average worker would be worse off if immigration was reduced to a tiny fraction of its current amount - in fact I'd have thought they'd be better off as the tight labour market would put them in much higher demand.

All we ever hear from politicians is how the sky will fall in and the universe will collapse if we don't keep an open borders policy. But politcians are hardly trustworthy when it comes to scaremongering. Politicians have often told scare stories (Look at the conservatives with minimum wage) which have turned out to be crap, so why should we trust them all of a sudden? Maybe the situation wouldn't be ideal if we tightened immigration up, but society's never been ideal. The question I think needs asking is if by trying to rectify labour shortages through immigration, will we be creating a much worse problem in the long run? Looking at the way things have gone so far, the answer seems to be yes.

You cannot curb EU migration without withdrawing from the EU. Every EU citizen has the right of abode and the right to work in any EU country.

A special clause was negotiated for the new accession states so that migration would be limited for the first few years after their accession. This wasn't permanent, just a mechanism to allow gradual adjustment. And to be frank Eastern European immigration is a 10th of what the British government expected.

I'd agree with IR about how poorly multiculturalism is handled in the UK. 15 government departments failing to meet their own obligations on tackling discrimination.

The 'community' was destroyed by Thatcher, and no government since has made any real effort to reinvigorate communities.

So when when minority groups begin to come together to form communities in areas where they is no active community they are lambasted for being anti-social by people who don't even know their neighbours name's. It's a real hypocrisy.

Community, if you consider it to have existed only in the pits and dales of the North, was doomed. Community still exists in the south.

As for secession from the EU; I agree with Lord Tebbit, it's a fantastic idea.

In any case, Eastern European immigration is far in excess of that anticipated. The government, in their wisdom, anticipated 16,000 Poles; we now have 600,000 of them.

What does this have to do with EU immigration anyway.
We can't do jack all about EU immigration without withdrawing from the EU. And you know as well as I do that that isn't going to happen any time soon, even if every single MP in the Commons had a change of heart and became a raging europhobe. And considering we have an SNP government in Scotland, a Plaid coalition in Wales and permanent SDLP/Sinn Fein representation in the NI executive, I think we're doing enough to destabilise the Reich already, unless I just missed Cambridgeshire seceding to form a Polish republic.

And, if we didn't have people in English only enclaves in Spain and Cyprus moaning that there's too many Evil Muslim Terrorists and Unbritish Black Gangsters in a city they've only read about in the Daily Mail we might be in a position to criticise EU migrants for not integrating.

If anything, this article proves we need more integration, not less, and that we are moving in the right direction from 20 years ago. But then, I'd say that since your goddess Thatcher came to power, there's not been much of a society for anyone to integrate into, black or white.

Everything. Secession is a wonderful idea, the sense of ensuring no further mass immigration notwithstanding. What does the EU actually bring to the UK now? Though I cannot, lamentably, find any survey or investigation to prove as much, I daresay it costs the UK more than it does recompense it.

So clearly the solution is to kick out all foreigners, adopt a strict isolationist policy and subjugate all the evil brown people?

Uch uch uch uch uch OWWWWWWW SNAP!!!!

Well at least we'd (Leeds U) would be in a higher division....works for me....

Oi Oi Wisey for manager of the year, man 6 outa 6, bloody marvelous.:D

Community still exists in the south.

i live in the south. i disagree.

In any case, Eastern European immigration is far in excess of that anticipated. The government, in their wisdom, anticipated 16,000 Poles; we now have 600,000 of them.

and? there are Polish supermarkets opening up on our local high street, Polish shops, adverts with Polish and English. i think its a good thing, even if i don't like the food much :p

its not so different from the influx of Indians and Pakistanis in the first half of the 20th century. there are plenty of Indian supermarkets in this city as well.


i know its not about supermarkets, but i don't really see the problem.

i live in the south. i disagree.



and? there are Polish supermarkets opening up on our local high street, Polish shops, adverts with Polish and English. i think its a good thing, even if i don't like the food much :p

its not so different from the influx of Indians and Pakistanis in the first half of the 20th century. there are plenty of Indian supermarkets in this city as well.


i know its not about supermarkets, but i don't really see the problem.

Exaclty. Polish culture isn't exaclty one of my favourite, but boy am I glad to be able to get some of the ingridients for my cooking in Ireland now :)
Having to live without Maggi, breadcrumbs, quark, Ajvar, sauerkraut and Debrezciner was a bit of a challenge sometimes here.

Everything.
The article had nothing to do with EU migration. If anything, it doesn't apply to EU migrants who don't tend to (from personal observation) congregate in big cities.

Secession is a wonderful idea, the sense of ensuring no further mass immigration notwithstanding. What does the EU actually bring to the UK now? Though I cannot, lamentably, find any survey or investigation to prove as much, I daresay it costs the UK more than it does recompense it.
Regardless of what you or I think of the EU, that simply isn't going to happen.

Oh, and ignore the rest of my post at your lesure.

i live in the south. i disagree.
I second that.

and? there are Polish supermarkets opening up on our local high street, Polish shops, adverts with Polish and English. i think its a good thing, even if i don't like the food much :p

its not so different from the influx of Indians and Pakistanis in the first half of the 20th century. there are plenty of Indian supermarkets in this city as well.


i know its not about supermarkets, but i don't really see the problem.
And that. If we are prepared to have Indian, Pakistani, Thai, Chinese, Italian shops and cuisine, why not eastern European?

i live in the south. i disagree.

Wonderful. I don't.

Much as increased mobility and intranational migration has seen community in the very traditional sense of the term decline, it seems to be string enough hereabouts.



and? there are Polish supermarkets opening up on our local high street, Polish shops, adverts with Polish and English. i think its a good thing, even if i don't like the food much :p

its not so different from the influx of Indians and Pakistanis in the first half of the 20th century. there are plenty of Indian supermarkets in this city as well.


i know its not about supermarkets, but i don't really see the problem.

Whyever not. The presence of mass ghettoes of Eastern European migrants not only creates unnecessary linguistic problems for public services, but also further pressurises already overburdened police forces.

For that matter, immigration also necessitates the construction of a further 200 houses per day; the expansion of suburban mediocre sprawl into the green belt, and the social and aesthetic destruction of rural England. Not that that's remotely important when we can have classes of children for whom English is a poorly understood second language eh?

Wonderful. I don't.

Much as increased mobility and intranational migration has seen community in the very traditional sense of the term decline, it seems to be string enough hereabouts.

Whyever not. The presence of mass ghettoes of Eastern European migrants not only creates unnecessary linguistic problems for public services, but also further pressurises already overburdened police forces.

For that matter, immigration also necessitates the construction of a further 200 houses per day; the expansion of suburban mediocre sprawl into the green belt, and the social and aesthetic destruction of rural England. Not that that's remotely important when we can have classes of children for whom English is a poorly understood second language eh?

Ahhh I see that you are getting he hang of it.

Please tell me the location of these mass ghettos though? And children in school learning Enlgish, shame on them rotten Poles for not forcing their kids to stick to the mother tounge!

Really whats the real beef here? You may as well just come out and say it.

All we ever hear from politicians is how the sky will fall in and the universe will collapse if we don’t keep an open borders policy.
:confused:

What UK do you live in?

If anything, I’d say it’s the opposite. We hear all the time about the ‘problems of immigration; the Tories adopting some not-quite-policy or other about guards at Dover or ‘tighter controls on immigration’.[