NationStates Jolt Archive

A disgruntled Belgian put his country on eBay, protesting the yet-unresolved political crisis. The Dutch-speakers want more autonomy, but the French want it united. It may ultimately end up in a split. I have a good internet friend in Belgium who has said it is getting to be a problem there.

Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070918/ap_on_fe_st/belgium_for_sale)

BRUSSELS, Belgium - Hidden among the porcelain fox hounds and Burberry tablecloths on sale at eBay.be this week was an unusual item: "For Sale: Belgium, a Kingdom in three parts ... free premium: the king and his court (costs not included)."

The odd ad was posted by one disgruntled Belgian in protest at his country's political crisis which reached a 100-day landmark Tuesday with no end in sight to the squabbling between Flemish and Walloon politicians.

"I wanted to attract attention," said Gerrit Six, the teacher and former journalist who posted the ad. "You almost have to throw rock through a window to get attention for Belgium."

Six placed the advertisement on Saturday, offering free delivery, but pointing out that the country was coming secondhand and that potential buyers would have to take on over $300 billion (euro220 billion) in national debt.

Like many of Belgium's 10 million citizens, Six is exasperated that the power struggle between the county's French- or Dutch-speaking political parties has left Belgium in political limbo since June 10 elections.

Demands for more autonomy from the Dutch-speaking Flemish are resisted by the French-speaking Walloons, making it impossible to form a government coalition and triggering concern the kingdom is on the verge of a breakup.

Six decided to vent his frustration through the Internet ad.

"My proposal was to make it clear that Belgium was valuable, it's a masterpiece and we have to keep it," he told Associated Press Television News. "It's my country and I'm taking care of it, and with me are millions of Belgians."

Six' idea got a mixed reaction on the streets of Brussels.

"Very funny, typical Belgian humor," said Anne Graux. "It's ridiculous," snapped Nathalie Ginot, a Brussels resident who had her own pragmatic solution to Belgium's woes. "We think it would be good to split Belgium into the three and make Brussels a tax-haven, a capital exempt from all taxes," she said hopefully.

Six vaunted Belgium's attractions to potential buyers from art nouveau architecture to the headquarters of NATO and the European Union and some great beers. But he also warned of the pitfalls of taking on the cacophonous mix of Flemish nationalists, Walloon Socialists and the mayors of all 19 Brussels' boroughs.

EBay was happy to take Six' advertisement.

"It was a really fun listing made by a Belgian," Peter Burin, PR manager of eBay Belgium. "This person, in a very funny way, reminded the Belgians what a great country Belgium actually is and it would be a shame to sell it."

However, the company decided to pull the add Tuesday after receiving a bid of euro10 million ($14 million)

"We decided to take it down, just to avoid confusion," he told APTN.

Ah, the folly of multiculturalism. This internal strife will also envelop the US should we adopt lenient measures towards Spanish-speakers.

""We think it would be good to split Belgium into the three and make Brussels a tax-haven, a capital exempt from all taxes," she said hopefully."

Is this possible?

If not....what about French-Belguim integrates with France and Dutch Belguim integrates with Holland and make Brussels sorta a "free-city"?

Surely neither half would last long alone in this world with global markets and large nation-states.

I hope Belgium pulls through. We've had a few touchy moments on language issues here in Canada, and it is one of those things that people really will dig in about.

The funniest part of the story, however, was this:

EBay was happy to take Six' advertisement.

"It was a really fun listing made by a Belgian," Peter Burin, PR manager of eBay Belgium. "This person, in a very funny way, reminded the Belgians what a great country Belgium actually is and it would be a shame to sell it."

However, the company decided to pull the add Tuesday after receiving a bid of euro10 million ($14 million)

"We decided to take it down, just to avoid confusion," he told APTN.


Avoid Confusion?

What? They are concerned that someone might actually believe that a citizen could legitimately put their country up for sale and have it be binding?


I mean, yes people are stupid. But you are allowed to ignore the idiots are you not?

Ah, the folly of multiculturalism. This internal strife will also envelop the US should we adopt lenient measures towards Spanish-speakers.

"lenient measures"??

What? Are you going to start beating people for daring to utter their mother tongue in public?

Ah, the folly of multiculturalism.

One would think that what's happening in Belgium is actually the result of a lack of multiculturalism. At least based on what the OP says, it appears that Belgium has got lots of monocultural/nationalist conflict, but little multiculturalism. Since multiculturalism promotes the presence of multiple cultures with equal status, if multiculturalism had any influence in Belgium at the moment, it would only make the achievement of a coalition government easier, not harder.

This isn't the "folly of multiculturalism" so much as it is simply what happens when monocultural nationalists get too close to each other.

""We think it would be good to split Belgium into the three and make Brussels a tax-haven, a capital exempt from all taxes," she said hopefully."

Is this possible?
Probably. Personally, I think they just want to create even more irrelevant, tiny European countries which will each imagine themselves to have some sort of unique culture worthy of protection and international recognition.

Probably. Personally, I think they just want to create even more irrelevant, tiny European countries which will each imagine themselves to have some sort of unique culture worthy of protection and international recognition.All I hear is "Quebec, Quebec, Quebec"

Probably. Personally, I think they just want to create even more irrelevant, tiny European countries which will each imagine themselves to have some sort of unique culture worthy of protection and international recognition.
By this you mean, of course, France, oui?:D

By this you mean, of course, France, oui?:DNon, he means Quebec.

Probably. Personally, I think they just want to create even more irrelevant, tiny European countries which will each imagine themselves to have some sort of unique culture worthy of protection and international recognition.

"imagine"? :confused: The Flemish and Walloon cultures aren't imaginary, they do really exist.

Surely neither half would last long alone in this world with global markets and large nation-states.

Unless, of course, they joined the EU. That's the route the Scottish are wanting to take.

By this you mean, of course, France, oui?:D

No, damn it.

I really wish Americans would stop ragging on France. France was an important ally in the Revolutionary War and has been a major power in the world since the ninth century.

"imagine"? :confused: The Flemish and Walloon cultures aren't imaginary, they do really exist.
Not to the extent that they should split up. Honestly, it is silly divisions like this that make me wish we were still living back in the good old days when these little countries were simply swallowed by neighboring empires.
Hey, there's an idea, let's just give the whole damned area (That is, Belgium) back to France or Austria, whoever was controlling them last before they were handed sovereignty.

No, damn it.

I really wish Americans would stop ragging on France. France was an important ally in the Revolutionary War and has been a major power in the world since the ninth century.
Well, since you're complaining so much...France is hardly a major power anymore at all...and many French don't like that. The France of the revolutionary war is hardly the France of toady.

However, that is just me playing the devil's advocate because I actually said France because it is the exact opposite of an irrelevant, tiny European country which imagines itself to have some sort of unique culture worthy of protection and international recognition. ;)

So relax.:p

Hrmm...throw in Denmark and I'll take them both...:D

France is not a world power...and hasn't been one since the Germans walked up the Champs-Élysées...but you still need to relax...:p

Probably. Personally, I think they just want to create even more irrelevant, tiny European countries which will each imagine themselves to have some sort of unique culture worthy of protection and international recognition.

While we're at it, what's so wrong with that?

Ill buy $ the whole nation, divide it, unify it whatever, I will buy it and rule it good, lol.

One would think that what's happening in Belgium is actually the result of a lack of multiculturalism. At least based on what the OP says, it appears that Belgium has got lots of monocultural/nationalist conflict, but little multiculturalism. Since multiculturalism promotes the presence of multiple cultures with equal status, if multiculturalism had any influence in Belgium at the moment, it would only make the achievement of a coalition government easier, not harder.

This isn't the "folly of multiculturalism" so much as it is simply what happens when monocultural nationalists get too close to each other.

I am Belgian, and I fully agree with this, we do not want to share, as a Flemish speaking community, with the French speaking community. It's not that we don't want to, it's because the French community demands more concessions towards them as they are the less productive (economically) region of the Nation. They have an unemployment rate of about 18%, while the Flemish have a rate of 5%. This is ongoing since 1968 and there are not too many Belgians that are too worried about it. But the language factor is the largest barrier block in the Belgian political structure. Both sides vote for their own political language parties, therefore you have a French Liberal Majority and you have a (Christian) Democrat Flemish majority, With opposing parties you have to create a functioning government. We are a very young country of nearly 12 million people, on a surface where the longest driving distance is 300 Km (200 miles), but we have the most complicated political structure I've ever seen. In Canada they have (or had) a similar issue but they aren't sitting on each others lap like we do. So far we are only 100 days without a functioning government, the record is 150 days in 1968. are we worried? NO, are we frustrated ?, YES.

Probably. Personally, I think they just want to create even more irrelevant, tiny European countries which will each imagine themselves to have some sort of unique culture worthy of protection and international recognition.

Let's face it, the US consists of fifty states with their own government, culture, traditions, laws and opinions, managed by a central Federal government. Europe consists of a multitude of independent countries that have their own government, culture, traditions, laws and opinions, managed by a central (shared) government that was created to make a global economy more fluent. I have a heritage which can be traced back to the 1600's, You suggest that we imagine this unique culture ? Tell a Texan that he has to give his Stetson (cowboy hat brand; for those who don't know) you'll have a new revolution on your hands. Now I know why the Muslims hate your US uninformed and opinionated big critical mouth. If you want to see one huge uniform culture, go to China, I suppose you support the communist ideologies. I am assuming you are from the US, as I expect this sort of opinion from that part of the globe.

managed by a central (shared) government that was created to make a global economy more fluent.

eh?

I suppose you support the communist ideologies. I am assuming you are from the US, as I expect this sort of opinion from that part of the globe.

some people can pull of the European superiority routine you sir cannot

A disgruntled Belgian put his country on eBay, protesting the yet-unresolved political crisis. The Dutch-speakers want more autonomy, but the French want it united. It may ultimately end up in a split. I have a good internet friend in Belgium who has said it is getting to be a problem there.



Belgium for sale, it isn't a good business opportunity since they almost depleted their coal mines. Also, Italian and Swiss chocolate beat the Belgian. ;)

Seriously now, Belgium is just a byproduct of the fall of Napoleon and the Restauration. No wonder it's falling into pieces, the historical reasons for its existance have disappeared. No need for cushion states between France and Germany.

Damned Walloonatic Goofballs.

Belgium for sale, it isn't a good business opportunity since they almost depleted their coal mines. Also, Italian and Swiss chocolate beat the Belgian. ;)

Seriously now, Belgium is just a byproduct of the fall of Napoleon and the Restauration. No wonder it's falling into pieces, the historical reasons for its existance have disappeared. No need for cushion states between France and Germany.




It's one of the richest countries in the world.

The Belgians or nor French neither German. They are Belgians.

And Belgium will not explode. It’s not because the foreign press do not understand the concept of Belgium that it will explode.

In Canada they have (or had) a similar issue but they aren't sitting on each others lap like we do.

Frankly, on issues like this physical proximity is hardly a contributing issue. And besides that you are entirely wrong about the proximity anyway. Beyond the interwoven Ottawa/Gatineau communities where the proximity is entirely equivalent to that found in Belgium, if you take a look at a population density map you will note that the most populous city in Quebec (Montreal) which contains nearly half of the population of the entire province (3.6 million of 7.6 million Quebecers) is only about 60km from the Ontario border.

Canada, don't forget, is a huge landmass where the bulk of the people live within an area only about the size of two belgiums.

If you take the corridor from Montreal through to the Niagra peninsula, and north only as far as Ottawa you will discover a 200km by 600km region with a population that rivals that of Belgium.

When mapping out political clout, this area also represents the bulk of the federal electoral districts thus rendering it critical to the election of a functioning government as well.

Belgium for sale, it isn't a good business opportunity since they almost depleted their coal mines. Also, Italian and Swiss chocolate beat the Belgian. ;)

Seriously now, Belgium is just a byproduct of the fall of Napoleon and the Restauration. No wonder it's falling into pieces, the historical reasons for its existance have disappeared. No need for cushion states between France and Germany.

Belgium has a high GDP per capita, but that's not the best part. You see, not only do they make fine chocolate, but they also make copious amounts of fine BEER and chips! To top that off, they also manufacture some of the best darned firearms in the world. You can't really say fairer than that, can you - chocolate, beer, chips and guns! A winning combination! Dangerous, but winning!

I wonder if they'd accept a bid for £0.81...

It's one of the richest countries in the world.
It isn't.

source, CIA factbook:

Rank Country GDP (purchasing power parity) Date of Information
1 World $ 65,950,000,000,000 2006 est.
2 United States $ 13,130,000,000,000 2006 est.
3 European Union $ 13,060,000,000,000 2006 est.
4 China $ 10,170,000,000,000 2006 est.
5 Japan $ 4,218,000,000,000 2006 est.
6 India $ 4,156,000,000,000 2006 est.
7 Germany $ 2,630,000,000,000 2006 est.
8 United Kingdom $ 1,930,000,000,000 2006 est.
9 France $ 1,891,000,000,000 2006 est.
10 Italy $ 1,756,000,000,000 2006 est.
11 Russia $ 1,746,000,000,000 2006 est.
12 Brazil $ 1,655,000,000,000 2006 est.
13 Korea, South $ 1,196,000,000,000 2006 est.
14 Canada $ 1,178,000,000,000 2006 est.
15 Mexico $ 1,149,000,000,000 2006 est.
16 Spain $ 1,109,000,000,000 2006 est.
17 Indonesia $ 948,300,000,000 2006 est.
18 Taiwan $ 680,500,000,000 2006 est.
19 Australia $ 674,600,000,000 2006 est.
20 Turkey $ 635,600,000,000 2006 est.
21 Argentina $ 608,800,000,000 2006 est.
22 Iran $ 599,200,000,000 2006 est.
23 Thailand $ 596,500,000,000 2006 est.
24 South Africa $ 587,500,000,000 2006 est.
25 Poland $ 552,400,000,000 2006 est.
26 Netherlands $ 529,100,000,000 2006 est.
27 Philippines $ 449,800,000,000 2006 est.
28 Pakistan $ 437,500,000,000 2006 est.
29 Colombia $ 374,400,000,000 2006 est.
30 Saudi Arabia $ 366,200,000,000 2006 est.
31 Ukraine $ 364,300,000,000 2006 est.
32 Belgium $ 342,800,000,000 2006 est.

Rank Country Public debt
(% of GDP) Date of Information
1 Lebanon 209.00 2006 est.
2 Japan 176.20 2006 est.
3 Seychelles 166.10 2006 est.
4 Jamaica 133.30 2006 est.
5 Zimbabwe 108.40 2006 est.
6 Italy 107.80 2006 est.
7 Greece 104.60 2006 est.
8 Egypt 102.90 2006 est.
9 Singapore 100.60 2006 est.
10 Belgium 90.30 2006 est.
11 Sri Lanka 89.60 2006 est.
12 Israel 89.00 2006 est.
13 Moldova 84.50 2006 est.
14 Nicaragua 82.70 2006 est.
15 Bhutan 81.40 2004
16 Ethiopia 80.30 2006 est.
17 Jordan 72.20 30 September 2006 est.
18 Morocco 70.90 2006 est.
19 Uruguay 70.60 2006 est.
20 Cote d'Ivoire 69.40 2006 est.



The Belgians or nor French neither German. They are Belgians.
Who said they're German? Flemish are akin to Dutchs - flemish language is a variant of dutch. Btw, there are also german-speaking areas in Belgium, iirc.
I guess that Belgians think of themselves more as Flemish or Walloon than Belgians.

And Belgium will not explode. It’s not because the foreign press do not understand the concept of Belgium that it will explode.

It isn't the foreign press who puts Belgium on e-Bay, or votes for the Vlaams Belang, the NV-A, the FDF or the FN, for instance.

Belgium has a high GDP per capita, but that's not the best part. You see, not only do they make fine chocolate, but they also make copious amounts of fine BEER and chips! To top that off, they also manufacture some of the best darned firearms in the world. You can't really say fairer than that, can you - chocolate, beer, chips and guns! A winning combination! Dangerous, but winning!

I wonder if they'd accept a bid for £0.81...

Meh, if you think that the FAL is a great weapon compared to its contemporary AK-47...
Also, I prefer Czech and German beers...

Naah, the only interesting thing in Belgium is Antwerpen's jewelries. (drool)

Let's face it, the US consists of fifty states with their own government, culture, traditions, laws and opinions, managed by a central Federal government. Europe consists of a multitude of independent countries that have their own governement, culture, traditions, laws and opinions, managed by a central (shared) government that was created to make a global economy more fluent. I have a heritage which can be traced back to the 1600's, You suggest that we imagine this unique culture ? Tell a Texan that he has to give his Stetson (cowboy hat brand; for those who don't know) you'll have a new revolution on your hands. Now I know why the Muslims hate your US uninformed and opinionated big critical mouth. If you want to see one huge monogamous culture, go to China, I suppose you support the communist ideologies. I am assuming you are from the US, as I expect this sort of opinion from that part of the globe.
And, yet, Texans somehow manage to share a country and central government with Alaskans and New Yorkers.
Which was kind of my point. I didn't say that every European in Europe is part of the same culture, they're not, I just said that many of the differences that set apart tiny nations like Luxembourg or Liechtenstein aren't significant enough to warrant them needing a separate government to handle their issues. The same goes for this silliness in Belgium, the Walloons and Flemish are not so different that the only way their needs can be properly met is by splitting up.

While we're at it, what's so wrong with that?
How am I ever supposed to meet my goal of memorizing the names of every country in the world if they keep inventing new ones?

If you want to see one huge monogamous culture, go to China, I suppose you support the communist ideologies.
:confused:
Excuse me, could you precisely tell me why having a single partner for life is a typical communist stance?:D:D:D

Hey, I've gotta to say this to the Pope, so he'll stop saying "the lefties want to destroy the families via divorce and polygamy".

I am Belgian, and I fully agree with this, we do not want to share, as a Flemish speaking community, with the French speaking community. It's not that we don't want to, it's because the French community demands more concessions towards them as they are the less productive (economically) region of the Nation. They have an unemployment rate of about 18%, while the Flemish have a rate of 5%. This is ongoing since 1968 and there are not too many Belgians that are too worried about it. But the language factor is the largest barrier block in the Belgian political structure. Both sides vote for their own political language parties, therefore you have a French Liberal Majority and you have a (Christian) Democrat Flemish majority, With opposing parties you have to create a functioning government. We are a very young country of nearly 12 million people, on a surface where the longest driving distance is 300 Km (200 miles), but we have the most complicated political structure I've ever seen. In Canada they have (or had) a similar issue but they aren't sitting on each others lap like we do. So far we are only 100 days without a functioning government, the record is 150 days in 1968. are we worried? NO, are we frustrated ?, YES.

If your biggest problem in Belgium is that there are different languages spoken, then I don't really see what the problem is.
The more languages you get taught, the better it is for your developement.

Meh, if you think that the FAL is a great weapon compared to its contemporary AK-47...
Also, I prefer Czech and German beers...

Naah, the only interesting thing in Belgium is Antwerpen's jewelries. (drool)

Well if you don't like their firearms that's fine. But you can't not like their beers! Or chips! Wow. We're summarising an entire country based on its chocolate, beer, guns, chips and jewellery. Isn't that like, callous, or something?

Well if you don't like their firearms that's fine. But you can't not like their beers! Or chips! Wow. We're summarising an entire country based on its chocolate, beer, guns, chips and jewellery. Isn't that like, callous, or something?

Fine, as long as we not including Duvel; evil vile shit. Blah! That beer is all head and no substance.

Fine, as long as we not including Duvel; evil vile shit. Blah! That beer is all head and no substance.

Hey, I love Duvel, it's one of the best beers from Belgium and certainly better than Stella or Jupiler.

One would think that what's happening in Belgium is actually the result of a lack of multiculturalism.

It really has not much to do with multiculturalism. The problem is that in one part of the country a Flemish-nationalist party (christian demorcats CD&V, who support a confederation, in a cartel with a small Flemish separatist party NVA) have won. Before the election they talked a lot about reforming the federal state, made a lot of promises etc. In the other part of the country the liberals (MR) won a lot, but they are also a cartel with a small party (FDF), which is opposed to more rights for Flanders (and Walloon).
Traditionally, when a government is formed the winning party in Flanders makes a coalition with the winning party in Walloon or with extra parties to have a majority in parliament. Following this logic both christian democratic parties (the Flemish CD&V (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christen-Democratisch_en_Vlaams)/NVA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New-Flemish_Alliance) and the Walloon CDh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanist_Democratic_Centre)) and both liberal parties (Flemish VLD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flemish_Liberals_and_Democrats) and Walloon MR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouvement_Reformateur)/FDF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front_d%C3%A9mocratique_des_francophones)) have to form a government. The problem is that the Flemish parties want an agreement on further reforms of the federal state (which in practice means more power for Flanders and Walloon and less for the federal state) before they start a government, but the Walloons are diametrically opposed to this.

Now they can't form a government because either of them will have to make admissions they promised to their electorate not to make.
The francophones want to redraw the borders for instance, or they want more rights for French-speaking people in Flemish communities (because now for instance there are Flemish communities that are totally governed in Dutch, with Dutch libraries and Dutch paperwork but with a majority of French speaking civilians) but for whatever reason (electoral gain) the Flemish politicians are to stuborn to allow this.
The Flemish on the other hand want to be able to invest in railroads, want to split an electoral district (Brussel-Halle-Vilvoorde) and want to bring some authority from the federal state to the smaller states (I didn't find a translation for "deelstaat") like social security iirc (it would be a disaster for the Walloons if they had to pay for their own poverty) but for the same reasons the Walloons won't allow this.

Another problem is that there HAS to be found a solution for the electoral district BHV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels-Halle-Vilvoorde). The situation as it is is against the law, so the next federal elections would be illegal if they don't find a good option. The problem here is very complex but it boils down to the fact that in BHV people can vote for both Flemish and Walloon candidates. Normally you can only vote for people from the state you belong to. Now the if this electoral district were split the French speaking people in it should vote for Flemish candidates (which would cause the FDF which is very popular there to lose a lot of votes and the Flemish parties to gain a lot of votes).

Yves Leterme, which is supposed to be the new prime-minister because he had most votes and his party is the largest, is another problem. He has said some stupid stuff, like that the Walloons aren't intelligent enough to learn Flemish or that you could buy a new reform or he began to sing the Marseillaise instead of the Belgian national anthem and other stuff like that. When he won there were also a lot of Flemish flags etc. All this was enlarges by the media but it resulted in the fact that most Walloons strongly dislike/hate him. That also makes the talks more difficult and was very very stupid of him.

The last reason why things aren't going faster is that the Christian democrats, especially the CDh are more left than the liberals who are center-right. The CDh for instance wants to raise expenses for social security, but the liberals want less taxes, that way they'll run out of money soon.


So it basically boiled down to the fact that the Flemish promised to reform the federal state, the Walloons promised to do anything they can to stop that and that nobody wants to give anything because otherwise they might lose a lot of votes in the next election.

This became a lot longer than I expected, I hope it is somewhat correct (to be totally correct I think that I might need a few extra GB). Personally I'm no expert in this matter but I think that most of what i wrote is true, feel free to correct me if you think to know it better.


EDIT: our beer is the best! especially Duvel, blasphemer!!!
(our chocolate and french fries are very good to, and cheese and most things except maybe our weather, spatial planning, roads and politicians

Oh my god! You said "Belgium"! Don't you realise there may be children or old ladies present? *stalks off* Some people have no manners.

And why does this remind me of the guy who sued God?

Champion.

[QUOTE=Surely neither half would last long alone in this world with global markets and large nation-states.[/QUOTE]

What about San Marino, Luxembourg, Monaco ? they are actually more efficient economically than the bigger versions. It's not quantity, it's quality that counts.

Fine, as long as we not including Duvel; evil vile shit. Blah! That beer is all head and no substance.

that's what you get when you drink from a bottle that's been opened the night before and left on the table all night !!!!!!
And I thank the god Bacchus for refraining INBEV from taking over the brewery "Duvel" .

If your biggest problem in Belgium is that there are different languages spoken, then I don't really see what the problem is.
The more languages you get taught, the better it is for your developement.

it's only because the French speaking population doesn't want to learn Flemish and most Flemish prefer to learn English instead of French (although more Flemish citizens speak French than there are Walloons that speak Flemish) we are in a bilingual country where a great majority don't care to be bilingual to begin with. Ask our King and Queen if they really like to speak in Flemish.

eh?



some people can pull of the European superiority routine you sir cannot
I never claimed superiority, you just assumed I did !

:confused:
Excuse me, could you precisely tell me why having a single partner for life is a typical communist stance?:D:D:D

Hey, I've gotta to say this to the Pope, so he'll stop saying "the lefties want to destroy the families via divorce and polygamy".

I'll correct it with uniform culture, my fault (it's only my fourth language so bear with me pls)

Canada, don't forget, is a huge landmass where the bulk of the people live within an area only about the size of two belgiums.

If you take the corridor from Montreal through to the Niagra peninsula, and north only as far as Ottawa you will discover a 200km by 600km region with a population that rivals that of Belgium.

When mapping out political clout, this area also represents the bulk of the federal electoral districts thus rendering it critical to the election of a functioning government as well.

I did live in Vancouver during the Quebec separation referendum, having lived in Canada and now living in Belgium you can understand my comparison that we are much closer together in Belgium. Although I can see your point.

The same goes for this silliness in Belgium, the Walloons and Flemish are not so different that the only way their needs can be properly met is by splitting up.

Sorry but they are very different, except for the fact that we are both from planet Earth (I think), granted every normal person should accept the fact that this is silly but we are not compatible, even Brussels has it's own government outside of the Flemish and the Walloon government, probably because they can't handle the other 2. There is an explanation for it, I think it's already been described by someone else (thank god for that)

Hey, I love Duvel, it's one of the best beers from Belgium and certainly better than Stella or Jupiler.

Hey! I actually enjoyed Jupiler. It tasted good, though not as good as Heineken. :) Of course, I'm bias and prefer Kilkenny and Guinness.

that's what you get when you drink from a bottle that's been opened the night before and left on the table all night !!!!!!
And I thank the god Bacchus for refraining INBEV from taking over the brewery "Duvel" .

Uhm... actually, it hadn't been. It had been opened at our table. Sadly enough.

Hey! I actually enjoyed Jupiler. It tasted good, though not as Heineken. :)

:eek:

:eek:

What? I like the taste. (And yes, I fixed my typo - note to self: listen to coherent music when I write).

What? I like the taste. (And yes, I fixed my typo - note to self: listen to coherent music when I write).

sorry, it was obligatory. Just don't say that out loud when you're in Belgium.

If your biggest problem in Belgium is that there are different languages spoken, then I don't really see what the problem is.
The main problem isn't really due to the different languages, it's more due to the different areas of the country being different in their culture and stance on what Belgium should be about.

Their different languages are a very, very tiny obstacle, seeing as most Flemish people speak French, even if it isn't the other way 'round, and it's not like they can't have translators in Parliament.

sorry, it was obligatory. Just don't say that out loud when you're in Belgium.

I didn't when I was there. :)

And interestingly I just found this in the Toronto Star, another commentary about the current political climate in Belgium. It compares it to the Canadian situation. I thought of this after someone brought up the example of the Ottawa-Gatineau region.

A cautionary tale from divided Belgium (http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/258036)

Three years ago, when he was still leader of the opposition, Stephen Harper singled out bilingual, bicultural Belgium as a fine example of successful federalism.

Today it's more than a little embarrassing that just as he is to announce a key component of his renewed federalism – formally restricting Ottawa's spending to federal jurisdictions – the Belgian model shows signs of being about to fission after 176 years of existence.

That country's French-speaking Walloons in the south and Dutch-speaking Flemish in the north lead quite separate lives. They know, and apparently care, little about one another. For the past three months, with voters split along linguistic lines, Belgium has been unable to form a new government. More than 40 per cent of Flemish voters favour independence.

That sounds at first a little like Canada: a country split along linguistic lines, with nothing in common but a mutual antagonism.

But it isn't really so. Canadians have stronger central institutions, for one thing. Belgium, with 10.5 million people, has 11 parties in parliament. It has two distinct party systems and two electoral colleges, one French-speaking, the other Dutch.

There are another five parliaments set up by language and geography. Power is so devolved that the country essentially operates as a city state, Brussels, surrounded by independent fiefdoms.

The Belgian case serves as a warning note to all who call themselves federalists.

Inter-penetration of language groups is substantial in Canada, but needs to be encouraged, which means official-language minorities need defending. Parliament needs parties represented in every region. Public and private bilingualism is an asset, to be encouraged in every part of the country. And Canadians could profit from incentives – student exchange programs, perhaps even holiday tax breaks – to get to know their neighbours in other regions.

As for the Harper government's desire to clarify the separate roles of the federal and provincial governments, he should beware mollifying the Quebec political class at the expense of retaining genuine national scope for Ottawa.

A country has to be careful not to devolve itself to death.

Hey, there's an idea, let's just give the whole damned area (That is, Belgium) back to France or Austria, whoever was controlling them last before they were handed sovereignty.Austria? It was Holland, my dear.;) Not that we want them back now, with their funny accents.

Maybe if the French take the Walloons.:p

Ah, the folly of multiculturalism. This internal strife will also envelop the US should we adopt lenient measures towards Spanish-speakers.
Oh good...for a moment I thought you wanted more leniency towards illegal immigrants and their language pollution. It's already way to leninient.

No, damn it.

I really wish Americans would stop ragging on France. France was an important ally in the Revolutionary War and has been a major power in the world since the ninth century.
Yeah seriously...

Not to the extent that they should split up. Honestly, it is silly divisions like this that make me wish we were still living back in the good old days when these little countries were simply swallowed by neighboring empires.
Hey, there's an idea, let's just give the whole damned area (That is, Belgium) back to France or Austria, whoever was controlling them last before they were handed sovereignty.
Spain and Netherlands

EDIT: our beer is the best! especially Duvel, blasphemer!!!
(our chocolate and french fries are very good to, and cheese and most things except maybe our weather, spatial planning, roads and politicians
Didn't you guys invent "french" fries?

Oh my god! You said "Belgium"! Don't you realise there may be children or old ladies present? *stalks off* Some people have no manners.

And why does this remind me of the guy who sued God?
lol 42


Language IS a major part of this. Language is the base of culture. They'll all end up speaking English in the end.

Didn't you guys invent "french" fries?

Indeed. They should rename them as 'Belgian bits' or something.

Austria? It was Holland, my dear.;) Not that we want them back now, with their funny accents.

Maybe if the French take the Walloons.:p

I don't want to border France so Wallonia becoming part of France is not an option for me :p

A country has to be careful not to devolve itself to death.

I don't see why devolving a country to death is a bad thing. People seem to be under the strange assumption that the current borders and nation-states are the only legitimate ones.

I don't see why devolving a country to death is a bad thing. People seem to be under the strange assumption that the current borders and nation-states are the only legitimate ones.

Don't look at me like I wrote it! I just CTRL+P'd it.

Don't look at me like I wrote it! I just CTRL+P'd it.

I know, I wasn't direct that at you specifically.

Belgium for sale, it isn't a good business opportunity since they almost depleted their coal mines. Also, Italian and Swiss chocolate beat the Belgian. ;)
The Belgians have good beer though... I had some strawberry flavoured stuff last week that was Belgian and quite yummy. :)

The Belgians have good beer though... I had some strawberry flavoured stuff last week that was Belgian and quite yummy. :)

some people have "fruit of the loom" we have "fruit in the (beer) bottle", bananas, cherry, raspberry, you name them we have most of them and they are a lot better than the alco-pops. I am biased of course !

I don't want to border France so Wallonia becoming part of France is not an option for me :p

I don't think that France is interested in Walloonie, they would have a better chance being integrated with Luxembourg, they both have an ancient dialect and they both speak French. The Luxembourgers have a lot of bank capital, It can only be good for The Wallooniers. A refreshing thought !

Uhm... actually, it hadn't been. It had been opened at our table. Sadly enough.

It does happen that one bottle is not sealed properly and it has to be cold to consume properly, sorry you got that one. but you have to realize that our beer is also much more bitter than the other world beers. Even Guinness has been sweetened (for the sake of export), compared to the Guinness that I consumed in the sixties.

Didn't you guys invent "french" fries?


Yes, we did. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_fries#History)

French-fried potatoes were likely invented during the 18th century in the area that later became Belgium. The name "French" was applied to them in (American) English at the beginning of the 19th century.

It does happen that one bottle is not sealed properly and it has to be cold to consume properly, sorry you got that one. but you have to realize that our beer is also much more bitter than the other world beers. Even Guinness has been sweetened (for the sake of export), compared to the Guinness that I consumed in the sixties.

personally I like my duvel better about 15 minutes after it's poured in the glass. When it's ice cold you don't really have that much taste and the foam can be in the way too. when it's a little bit less cold it becomes more bitter, and bitter is better.
actually the bottle says it has to be between 6 and 10 °C to be served, which is warmer than the average fridge.

Well if you don't like their firearms that's fine. But you can't not like their beers! Or chips! Wow. We're summarising an entire country based on its chocolate, beer, guns, chips and jewellery. Isn't that like, callous, or something?

Man, I'm italian. Our economy is based on pizza, pasta, wine, fashion and art. Also, we produce some of the best helicopters around (even the PotUS's one!) and cool sports cars (Ferrari, Alfa, Lancia, Lamborghini...). And our chocolate is great!

Belgium somehow doesn't manage to impress me a lot...

It does happen that one bottle is not sealed properly and it has to be cold to consume properly, sorry you got that one. but you have to realize that our beer is also much more bitter than the other world beers. Even Guinness has been sweetened (for the sake of export), compared to the Guinness that I consumed in the sixties.

The real problem with beer is that they lose a lot of their taste when they get hauled around in lorries and ships. Beer should be drunk within 100 km of its brewery.

snip: yes, french fries are belgian.

It does happen that one bottle is not sealed properly and it has to be cold to consume properly, sorry you got that one. but you have to realize that our beer is also much more bitter than the other world beers. Even Guinness has been sweetened (for the sake of export), compared to the Guinness that I consumed in the sixties.

I'm not referring to the beer I drink here, as I don't drink beer in Canada because it tastes vile. Bitter isn't bad when compared to the swill they try to pass off as beer here.

Man, I'm italian. Our economy is based on pizza, pasta, wine, fashion and art. Also, we produce some of the best helicopters around (even the PotUS's one!) and cool sports cars (Ferrari, Alfa, Lancia, Lamborghini...). And our chocolate is great!

Belgium somehow doesn't manage to impress me a lot...


HAH! Our economy is based on exporting winter, hockey and poutine... which is kind of lame.

I'll correct it with uniform culture, my fault (it's only my fourth language so bear with me pls)

hehe... never mind... I was joking...;)
(btw, I think that the word you were looking for was "homogeneous")

Fourth language? Cool! What are the other ones?

HAH! Our economy is based on exporting winter, hockey and poutine... which is kind of lame.

You're Canadian, right? Then, also, you got a lot of tourism, salmons (I love salmon!) and some of the best wood around.

Plus, you could always expand southwards, I bet that some USian states would be happy to join Canada!

I'm not referring to the beer I drink here, as I don't drink beer in Canada because it tastes vile. Bitter isn't bad when compared to the swill they try to pass off as beer here.
Uh... what the hell beers are you drinking?

HAH! Our economy is based on exporting winter, hockey and poutine... which is kind of lame.
yeah, let's ignore all the other things we do...

some people have "fruit of the loom" we have "fruit in the (beer) bottle", bananas, cherry, raspberry, you name them we have most of them and they are a lot better than the alco-pops. I am biased of course !
Well, I liked it better than any coolers I've had (if that's what you mean by alco-pops)... I think I need to find an excuse to go to Belgium and sample some more beers. :P

Well, I liked it better than any coolers I've had (if that's what you mean by alco-pops)... I think I need to find an excuse to go to Belgium and sample some more beers. :P

Like sampling beers isn't a good excuse :rolleyes:;)

Like sampling beers isn't a good excuse :rolleyes:;)
Yes, but when one doesn't have any money with which to travel, one must find an excuse (like a conference related to one's field of study) to convince one's supervisor that one should be given a free trip.

Hey! I actually enjoyed Jupiler. It tasted good, though not as good as Heineken. :) Of course, I'm bias and prefer Kilkenny and Guinness.



Uhm... actually, it hadn't been. It had been opened at our table. Sadly enough.

Euhm, what? You like Heineken and Jupiler? You really don't know real beers man.
Guinness en Kilkenny are great yeah, but Jupiler and Heineken????

I don't think that France is interested in Walloonie, they would have a better chance being integrated with Luxembourg, they both have an ancient dialect and they both speak French. The Luxembourgers have a lot of bank capital, It can only be good for The Wallooniers. A refreshing thought !

And don't forget that Belgium has a province called Luxembourg :) It all makes sense now :)

Brussels a city state, a bit like Washington DC is in the States :)

And what about merging the south of the Netherlands (Brabant, Limburg, Zeeuws-Flanders)? Over here in Brabant we're sometimes referred to as reserve Belgians anyway :) And we can get a good footballteam together (Simons, Nistelrooy, Bouma, Mathijsen) :) And here "in the north" we also still have some nice beers (Hertog Jan, La Trappe) *nod*

I see lots of benefits to merging :D

You're Canadian, right? Then, also, you got a lot of tourism, salmons (I love salmon!) and some of the best wood around.

Plus, you could always expand southwards, I bet that some USian states would be happy to join Canada!

Unfortunately I'm not in a good location for prime fish, which sucks for me... :(I love fish, especially salmon... mmmm! Maki!

Uh... what the hell beers are you drinking?


yeah, let's ignore all the other things we do...

Not any good ones because all we got here is crap. I'll be sticking with my own mixers thank you very much! Vodka-Pepsi with a squirt of lime. :)

Of course I will. ;) It's fun to ignore the facts.

Euhm, what? You like Heineken and Jupiler? You really don't know real beers man.
Guinness en Kilkenny are great yeah, but Jupiler and Heineken????

It's really a matter of taste my friend. It's all about personal taste.

hehe... never mind... I was joking...;)
(btw, I think that the word you were looking for was "homogeneous")

Fourth language? Cool! What are the other ones?

Dutch, German, French and I can say "you are welcome" in Japanese.
I just like to converse in other languages.