NationStates Jolt Archive

Friend of my dads is married to a son of a bitch. Now.. he's one of those people that they are alright to be around short spurts of time, but if/when you cross that certain point, even you.. an outsider of the relationship can/will see or experience the tee total assholeishness of them.


He controls everything there is possible to control of her atm.. (any outside connection, any and all money (when she can hold a job, without him sabotaging it), if he thinks she actually might be getting some where, or feeling the least bit positive of her self .. he will either break her down to where she herself fucks it up.. or he fucks it up for her.

I find I have little patience for her. I'm pissed that she would let herself get into this type of situation in the first place. But ... I try to remind myself, it is not her fault. I've seen him first hand talk to her like a fucking dog. I have not seen him hit her, but I've seen the bruises on her. I have purposely distanced myself (they are really my dads friends -- and when it comes to him -- they both, even this asshole I'm talking about .. does look out for my dad) from them as much as possible, cause I don't want to see that shit. But since they are both acquaintances of my dad.. and I take care of him, I can't not totally.

They both drink. Usually when they get in an argument, they end up in a physical fight which involves the police. This is not my bag. I want to stay the hell away from cops as much as possible. No I'm not selling drugs or growing pot, I just don't want to deal with cops. But I feel like I'm suppose to help her. I've told her to do all she can for herself (without him knowing) and tell this sob nothing .. since he is the kind that if she does or is around etc etc anything that might actually do her good, his abuse will get worse. He wants to remain in control.

It sickens me. She's not stupid , but he's beat her down so much she thinks she is. I do not want this shit, or the shit that could come from it on me. It is not my problem.. but this is a fellow female in a major abusive realtionship. I don't want to get directly involved with their shit, cause if I say let her move in here, and this sob came over here causing shit.. I'd end up shooting thew bastard.. then there I'd be sitting in prison, regretting ever trying to help.

When he beats her ass she goes to one of those battered women shelters. or homeless shelters. I do not know the working of those places, but by whet she told me.. it's a place to sleep. at 8 AM they basically kick your ass out.


I've told her to get a job, after there a while try her damdest to secretly put some money away for herself.. do not let this ass know she likes the job,, cause if he does he will ruin it. I told her to get in contact with some type of support group for this shit, and anytime he isn't home to talk to them.. and since she does believe in god.. I told her to talk to god in her heart. Do not let her husband know anything positive she is doing for herself since all he will do is ruin it.

If I had the money I'd give this woman 5k .. would be enough for her tp get the hell out of here and start a new life .. but i don't have 5k.

What can I do for this woman?

Alas very little.

These types of cases are spiraling ruts and the deeper you spiral, the higher the rut until it's difficult to climb out.

There's often a co-dependency, that is: she's in as much of a habit as he is, they're in a relationship pattern that is inward-looking and difficult to break.

Could you give up your life to take care of her sufficiently in order to bring back any sense of self-worth?

Some people might say you should openly confront the guy, yet he is also suffering a lack of self-worth, which makes him abusive and therefore causes him to lash out. Making him feel like the shit he is leads him to abuse her further.

The best advice is to talk to your father, he should really feel a certain responsibility to talk to his friend, point out that this is an abusive relationship and offer him a place to go when he's drunk and feeling insecure and violent.

Yet is your father likewise prepared to invest himself into the time required to help the situation?

I can't stand this aspect of humanity and it's really down to self-respect - we're a weird race regrettably.

Alas very little.

These types of cases are spiraling ruts and the deeper you spiral, the higher the rut until it's difficult to climb out.

There's often a co-dependency, that is: she's in as much of a habit as he is, they're in a relationship pattern that is inward-looking and difficult to break.

Could you give up your life to take care of her sufficiently in order to bring back any sense of self-worth?

Some people might say you should openly confront the guy, yet he is also suffering a lack of self-worth, which makes him abusive and therefore causes him to lash out. Making him feel like the shit he is leads him to abuse her further.

The best advice is to talk to your father, he should really feel a certain responsibility to talk to his friend, point out that this is an abusive relationship and offer him a place to go when he's drunk and feeling insecure and violent.

Yet is your father likewise prepared to invest himself into the time required to help the situation?

I can't stand this aspect of humanity and it's really down to self-respect - we're a weird race regrettably.

totally.. If i did that he'd beat her ass to a pulp when I left. I can tell this guy has issues.. I mean most of ur have issues.. but he has some major issues.

I don't think my dad understands the level of abuse going on. I don't know whether .. if he knew.. would he want to get involved to the extent of letting her stay in his home.

And again .. if the husband came over starting some shit.. My dad would shoot his ass before asking questions.. I myself qould ask some questions then shoot. Neither is good tho. I really don't want to go to jail for shooting a bastard that deserved it.

I would call an abuse hotline that a police or agency would have set up to tip off the police. The best thing about this is that they don't ask for your name, or address or anything.

I would call an abuse hotline that a police or agency would have set up to tip off the police. The best thing about this is that they don't ask for your name, or address or anything.

Yet if she is unwilling to press charges, as women in this situation so often are, then the police can't do much.

Our power to deny reality is quite impressive.

I babysat for a remedial teacher at my university, she had an abusive boyfriend and, although she told me and I knew the guy and was often offended by his openly derogatory remarks, I brushed them all aside as nothing to do with me, I avoided thinking about it and avoided the subject due to feeling uncomfortable about talking over it.

Then one night he came home while we were chatting after I'd been babysitting - he saw me as I stood up to try and jokingly deter his aggression and pushed me to the floor and then proceed to pick up a high heel shoe and commenced beating her over the head with it.

*snip long story about police being utterly uninterested snip*

I truly opened my eyes, I read up on it a lot and have since met other abused women and more to better understand it.

I'm no professional so my advice can be taken with a pinch of the proverbial salt but, like I said, the power of denial is strong for all of us.

I'm sure your father is fully aware of the situation - and quite justifiably unwilling to do anything about it.

I would call an abuse hotline that a police or agency would have set up to tip off the police. The best thing about this is that they don't ask for your name, or address or anything.


these 2 have been to court about this. They have no small kids.. all their kids are basically grown and do not live with them, but the guy has even been to jail fore beating up her son.. of age.. but in his twenties.. guy is in his 40's.


That's what pisses me off.. like I told her today.. it sounds like to me all she wants to do is bitch about her situation, but not put forth the effort to actually DO something. But I can see she is beat the fuck down. I just don't know. My regular instinct is to stay the hell out of it, my caring/protective instinct is to hlp her.. but like I told her.. she's gotta take her focus off him and focus on herself.. getting out .. becoming stronger emotionally/mentally or whatever.

I also reminded her that hse has no little children in the house , she's not sick/disabled and that she can do it. But she took me saying that like a (Easier said than done) .. and I know it is.. but the one thing anyone must change to change their life .. is their thinking!

There is a solution to this problem. That solution is a large wrench.

these 2 have been to court about this. They have no small kids.. all their kids are basically grown and do not live with them, but the guy has even been to jail fore beating up her son.. of age.. but in his twenties.. guy is in his 40's.


That's what pisses me off.. like I told her today.. it sounds like to me all she wants to do is bitch about her situation, but not put forth the effort to actually DO something. But I can see she is beat the fuck down. I just don't know. My regular instinct is to stay the hell out of it, my caring/protective instinct is to hlp her.. but like I told her.. she's gotta take her focus off him and focus on herself.. getting out .. becoming stronger emotionally/mentally or whatever.

I also reminded her that hse has no little children in the house , she's not sick/disabled and that she can do it. But she took me saying that like a (Easier said than done) .. and I know it is.. but the one thing anyone must change to change their life .. is their thinking!

Yeah, and until she does it, it's impossible for you to do it for her. I understand you wanting to fix the problem, cure the people involved, but until she realizes that she is a valid human being that doesn't deserve to be treated this way, and that she has the power to change this, then she's..just not going to leave, which is what she needs to do.

The only thing you can really do is be there and let her know there's a way out and plan in case that day happens. She'll need a place to stay, maybe money if she doesn't have her own, and a rather large restraining order. She'll also need support in the form of psychological help, there should be a support group somewhere in the area, which is usually a good place to start.

The natural impulse here is to resort to violence yourself against this man, espically if this is someone you care about. Sadly, there's really no good way to make him stop short of making him stop permanently, and that involves the police and I don't think our judicial system would stop at prosecuting you regardless of how messed up this is.

I know, you've heard five replies to it already, but I figured it couldn't hurt.

There is a solution to this problem. That solution is a large wrench.


Agreed, wait until he isnt looking and WHACK! bye bye abusive husband.

even God draws the line at people unwilling to help themselves. it will most likely end in the death of one of them at the hands of the other que sera sera

-snip- I know, you've heard five replies to it already, but I figured it couldn't hurt.


Nope didn't hurt at all. I know what you are saying, and that is my gut. .. stay the hell out of it, be there if and when she decides its enough.

Alas very little.

These types of cases are spiraling ruts and the deeper you spiral, the higher the rut until it's difficult to climb out.

There's often a co-dependency, that is: she's in as much of a habit as he is, they're in a relationship pattern that is inward-looking and difficult to break.

Could you give up your life to take care of her sufficiently in order to bring back any sense of self-worth?

Some people might say you should openly confront the guy, yet he is also suffering a lack of self-worth, which makes him abusive and therefore causes him to lash out. Making him feel like the shit he is leads him to abuse her further.

The best advice is to talk to your father, he should really feel a certain responsibility to talk to his friend, point out that this is an abusive relationship and offer him a place to go when he's drunk and feeling insecure and violent.

Yet is your father likewise prepared to invest himself into the time required to help the situation?

I can't stand this aspect of humanity and it's really down to self-respect - we're a weird race regrettably.

True!. So sad =(

My dad isn't going to believe it unless he sees it. I'd actually prefer that he didn't know. He's not in his younger days when he'd go out here and stack milk crates on top of one another (if he felt he had to -- 1950's) to fight. He's 75. I felt if he really knew .. well not good.

So.. I don't know.. I might just cut them both off slowly but surely.

can't not totally.

lol

Clearly he's this dad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWu5HLFQCmE

But seriously, something needs to be done or else there'll be violence.

There are support groups take would actually help you leave. I think one is called "Hope".

The only reason you should not break his spine and leave him crippled for life is because you might go to jail for it.

Personally, I think a life as a quadriplegic is the appropriate penalty for somebody who beats their partner. Particularly since the type of man you described is the type most likely to murder his partner if she dares to leave him.

You might suggest that she read "Why Do They Kill?" by David Adams. It is about men exactly like her partner.

I was in the same exact kind of relationship as this woman. Unfortunately, there is nothing any outsider can do to help, unless the woman wants to be helped. For me, it took me a long time to realise I needed to get out. Many people say they don't understand how someone could have gotten into that situation in the first place or continues to stay in it. It's simple. In the beginning, it's easy to make excuses for the abuser. Then, by the time it gets to the point of being recurring, you are aready used to it and your self-esteem is all gone. In my experience, it got to the point where I actually came to believe I deserved that kind of treatment.

The only thing you can do is just be there to talk and listen if she wants to share.

Some time in jail (for him) might break the cycle. All you need is for him to commit a crime which isn't domestic ('cos we know how that goes,) and make sure there's evidence. Something he can't blame his partner or your dad or you for, but only himself ...

Fighting dirty, perhaps, but a little less extreme than rendering him paraplegic...

If you're concerned about her, speak to her directly in a discreet manner since the current situation may be made worse if he knew you were going to help her.

It might be best to keep a distance while gently steering this woman in the direction of the right help. There are agencies/groups that help battered women leave abusive relationships and reclaim their lives. These agencies/groups will know how to deal with her husband and be better able to provide her with the protection she obviously needs.

http://maps.google.com/ this is a good place to start in order to find help in your area where you can refer her to. :)

I was in the same exact kind of relationship as this woman. Unfortunately, there is nothing any outsider can do to help, unless the woman wants to be helped. For me, it took me a long time to realise I needed to get out. Many people say they don't understand how someone could have gotten into that situation in the first place or continues to stay in it. It's simple. In the beginning, it's easy to make excuses for the abuser. Then, by the time it gets to the point of being recurring, you are aready used to it and your self-esteem is all gone. In my experience, it got to the point where I actually came to believe I deserved that kind of treatment.

The only thing you can do is just be there to talk and listen if she wants to share.

In the mean time, if it's clear that the woman isn't ready for help, take this bit of advice from Joanaan. You'll want to build mutual trust with the woman so that she will trust you when it comes to the point when she is ready to make a break.

The only reason you should not break his spine and leave him crippled for life is because you might go to jail for it.

Personally, I think a life as a quadriplegic is the appropriate penalty for somebody who beats their partner. Particularly since the type of man you described is the type most likely to murder his partner if she dares to leave him.

You might suggest that she read "Why Do They Kill?" by David Adams. It is about men exactly like her partner.

You can always claim self defense and if the abused is your friend or someone you know, probably wouldn't hesitate to back you up on that charge.

there isn't much you can do until she decides she wants help.

there isn't much you can do until she decides she wants help.

You know, this thread actually reminds me of a time my grandpa tried to help a woman. He was walking down the street of New York City one day (this was shortly after WW II) and he saw a man hit his wife, so he went over and pretty much knocked the guy out, and then the wife actually started hitting my grandpa with her purse.

Sadly you can't really help someone until they're ready to be helped, and I think (from my own personal experience) that sometimes women think that this is the best that they'll do, so they'll put up with it. However, I don't think denial is the way to go either.

I spose this would be an inappropriate thread to post the dramatica wife beater collection then?

Give the absive bastard the "Goodbye, Earl" treatment. I have no patience for pricks like that.

Having been in an abusive relationship myself, the best advice I can offer you beyond what's already been said is simply to be a friend to this woman - which means, among other things, telling her that she deserves better than that shit. Don't put down her partner, whom she's likely to defend, but rather her partner's behavior. Tell her emphatically and frequently that she is a person and deserves to be treated with respect and dignity, not violence. Compliment her, be kind to her, build up her ego - she needs it if she's ever going to be convinced that her partner's behavior is a reflection on him, not her, and that she has the ability to escape it.

There's one way, but you might harm yourself.

Try to gather evidence for his beating his wife. When you're in a public place WITH WITNESSES with the prick, confront him. Stay calm and try to drive him to attack you; It shouldn't be too hard, as he's already willing to beat people up. When he lays a hand on you, call the police. They'll ARREST HIM for attacking you, in PUBLIC, not at home. Then sue him and toss in the beatings as evidence for ANOTHER crime, namely domestic abuse. While the cursed one is in jail, talk to his wife, get her to get a job, and so on and so forth. Get a restraining order for yourself and get her to get one for herself. And hope he doesn't take revenge on either of you. You also have to be VERY quick about talking to her and getting her to leave, as he'll try to get out on bail. But you may even be in luck if he calls HER for the bail money, as he'll essentially give her the cash to start over while he rots.

Having been in an abusive relationship myself, the best advice I can offer you beyond what's already been said is simply to be a friend to this woman - which means, among other things, telling her that she deserves better than that shit. Don't put down her partner, whom she's likely to defend, but rather her partner's behavior. Tell her emphatically and frequently that she is a person and deserves to be treated with respect and dignity, not violence. Compliment her, be kind to her, build up her ego - she needs it if she's ever going to be convinced that her partner's behavior is a reflection on him, not her, and that she has the ability to escape it.

I agree, I didn't like the ones who tore down my own abusive prick, only the ones who built me up. When I finally figured out how stupid I was being, I didn't want the judgmental friends around, only the supportive ones.

I agree, I didn't like the ones who tore down my own abusive prick, only the ones who built me up. When I finally figured out how stupid I was being, I didn't want the judgmental friends around, only the supportive ones.

Mmm. Help me out, are there many failings in my plan?

Mmm. Help me out, are there many failings in my plan?

it brings more violence and drama into her life, it pisses of the abuser which can lead him to escalate, and also she might get really pissed at you and thus won't believe you anymore when you say he is a bad person because she will see you as the one who is trying to split them up and so when he says "that guy is a jerk and he hates you" she will believe the abuser and become more isolated.

it brings more violence and drama into her life, it pisses of the abuser which can lead him to escalate, and also she might get really pissed at you and thus won't believe you anymore when you say he is a bad person because she will see you as the one who is trying to split them up and so when he says "that guy is a jerk and he hates you" she will believe the abuser and become more isolated.

I think many of my plans are somewhat stifled by the reality around them. Anyways, there's no way out?

I think many of my plans are somewhat stifled by the reality around them. Anyways, there's no way out?

when she wants to leave, a good friend will be there to help her.

The best advice I can give is to give your friend support. I would also look into legal options - could you get a restraining order against this guy?

Install video surveillance in their house, and stream it to the net.

Let the random stalkers of the internet do the rest. Death by webcam.

Best of all, the cops catch the stalker and bang them up for murder. How? He's in the mantrap you install outside the front door.

(/cunning plan)

No, really. What Smunkee said, be supportive but try not to show your real feelings about the abuser. When you're in a relationship and someone tells you your partner is a piece of shit, it just makes you feel more worthless.

When you're in a relationship and someone tells you your partner is a piece of shit, it just makes you feel more worthless.

I'm not sure it's that.

Simply to be in such a relationship is a long series of excusing the actions of the abusive partner. For someone you love to abuse you is a shock, out of the ordinary, and therefore the instinct is to place the blame somewhere else.

'Oh he's been drinking'
Oh, he's had a hard time lately'

...until the worst:

'Oh it must be something I've done, I shouldn't anger him'.

So laying into the partner merely brings up the instinctive reaction of excusing him. It doesn't so much make the abused partner feel worthless as cause them to build on the excuses they're already making while leading them to claim 'you don't understand him'.

It's better to focus on talking about the freedoms and pleasures of life, the abused partner needs to want what we mostly take for granted - a free and happy life.

However, it can be a long, long road and if you really want to help, it's better to have a full understanding of what you're getting into - otherwise, it's better to leave to professionals.

About the best thing one can do, is go to a women's shelter and talk to both formerly abused women as well as the people providing shelter so you can better understand the situation before diving in.

If you're a guy, prepare to feel worthless about your fellow man.

Excellent.

I felt a bit awkward saying "when you're in an abusive relationship" since I don't think I've ever been in one, unless it was from the abusive side. I'm pretty sure not.

However, having elicited that useful response, I don't regret being an ass. :)
Yep, I'm drunk in the early afternoon again.

The sad reality is that nothing can be done for her. She doesn't want to leave. Not yet, anyway.

The best thing that can be done is contacting local resources - try asking the local GP for one - to get information about shelters and such to give to her. Still, given the situation you describe, I doubt she'll take it as a kindness.

At the end of the day people are adults, and you have to let them live out their lousy decisions.

*...*
At the end of the day people are adults, and you have to let them live out their lousy decisions.

At the end of the day, people are sometimes dead, and don't get to live out squat.

You CAN help people, even when they resent it or do the opposite to what you thought they should. Think of it this way: as adults, we are still children, but very rebellious and difficult children. "Whatever, buddy" is no way to bring up children.

At the end of the day, people are sometimes dead, and don't get to live out squat.

You CAN help people, even when they resent it or do the opposite to what you thought they should. Think of it this way: as adults, we are still children, but very rebellious and difficult children. "Whatever, buddy" is no way to bring up children.

Which is why I suggested contacting the local GP and such to get info for her. But my bottom line is that it is still up to her to make the decision about where her life is going, and not anyone else's. She knows her own situation better than anyone else, and it's up to her to make her own choices.

We don't know the whole story, only she does.

I'm not sure it's that.

Simply to be in such a relationship is a long series of excusing the actions of the abusive partner. For someone you love to abuse you is a shock, out of the ordinary, and therefore the instinct is to place the blame somewhere else.

'Oh he's been drinking'
Oh, he's had a hard time lately'

...until the worst:

'Oh it must be something I've done, I shouldn't anger him'.

So laying into the partner merely brings up the instinctive reaction of excusing him. It doesn't so much make the abused partner feel worthless as cause them to build on the excuses they're already making while leading them to claim 'you don't understand him'.

It's better to focus on talking about the freedoms and pleasures of life, the abused partner needs to want what we mostly take for granted - a free and happy life.

However, it can be a long, long road and if you really want to help, it's better to have a full understanding of what you're getting into - otherwise, it's better to leave to professionals.

About the best thing one can do, is go to a women's shelter and talk to both formerly abused women as well as the people providing shelter so you can better understand the situation before diving in.

If you're a guy, prepare to feel worthless about your fellow man.

First read through, I found this an excellent and insightful post.

Third read through, I still find it so.

But one word grates on me, and that word is "professionals." If the word had been "experts" or "specialists" it wouldn't bug me so ... but a professional is one who does their thing for a living. They earn money by it, and their reputation is their meal ticket.

Does this seem unnecessarily pedantic? I hope not. A professional car-thief or a professional painter can probably be relied on to do what you want done ... but social work is a whole other kettle of fish. Social workers (and I know a few) are thrust into situations that are over-all bad. Nobody kills themselves or goes to jail is a GOOD result, everyone goes away smiling almost impossible.

(Interesting cross-thread note: do we ask too much of medical doctors?)

One thing a Professional social worker should not do is stake their own life or their career on the outcome of a case. That is simply not professional: if they die or are disbarred for one person, there are a hundred more that go without their help thereafter, not to mention their career taking a hit and them possibly dying or going to jail.

A "professional" attitude is not the most committed, nor the most objective, nor the best that the client can hope for. A dear friend with the skills of a professional, who will take the same risks and get down in the hole to help them out ... that is the best a person with a personal problem can hope for.

A dear friend who will risk all for you should have equal standing with a professional. Some things one will do better, some things the other. We should all take the advice of professionals, but to rely on them to fix our problems for a fee, particularly those problems closest to our hearts ... never.

If it were not so, if all our needs could be best met by paid professionals, none of us would bother with friends.

Which is why I suggested contacting the local GP and such to get info for her. But my bottom line is that it is still up to her to make the decision about where her life is going, and not anyone else's. She knows her own situation better than anyone else, and it's up to her to make her own choices.

We don't know the whole story, only she does.

Yes, that's true.

More importantly for us, the OP knows the situation better than we possibly can, since our knowledge of the situation (well, mine, some NSGers know each other in real life and by private channels, I stay in the sandbox) is a subset of hers.

I'm starving for information now, stringing along assumptions, and reaching for generalities. Perhaps this could all have been done better by asking questions than by making statements.

First read through, I found this an excellent and insightful post.

Third read through, I still find it so.

But one word grates on me, and that word is "professionals." If the word had been "experts" or "specialists" it wouldn't bug me so ... but a professional is one who does their thing for a living. They earn money by it, and their reputation is their meal ticket.

Does this seem unnecessarily pedantic? I hope not. A professional car-thief or a professional painter can probably be relied on to do what you want done ... but social work is a whole other kettle of fish. Social workers (and I know a few) are thrust into situations that are over-all bad. Nobody kills themselves or goes to jail is a GOOD result, everyone goes away smiling almost impossible.

(Interesting cross-thread note: do we ask too much of medical doctors?)

One thing a Professional social worker should not do is stake their own life or their career on the outcome of a case. That is simply not professional: if they die or are disbarred for one person, there are a hundred more that go without their help thereafter, not to mention their career taking a hit and them possibly dying or going to jail.

A "professional" attitude is not the most committed, nor the most objective, nor the best that the client can hope for. A dear friend with the skills of a professional, who will take the same risks and get down in the hole to help them out ... that is the best a person with a personal problem can hope for.

A dear friend who will risk all for you should have equal standing with a professional. Some things one will do better, some things the other. We should all take the advice of professionals, but to rely on them to fix our problems for a fee, particularly those problems closest to our hearts ... never.

If it were not so, if all our needs could be best met by paid professionals, none of us would bother with friends.

Yah, but I wasn't suggesting professional help. I was suggesting that those who are interested should go to a professional, i.e. the local GP, to find out what resources - in other words shelters, battered women attorneys, counselors &c. - she could contact and use. And then pass the info on to her so she is fully aware of her options.

But other than that, there is nothing anyone can do for her. Don't get me wrong, I feel bad for her, but you have to treat people like adults at some point.

*snip*

Absolutely - good friends can be critical.

It may be that 'professional' is not the correct word but the context is about leaping in to help without fully understanding either the situation or the commitment you should be prepared to make if you truly want to help.

If you're a great friend, that commitment comes naturally. If not, it can be a strain for you, where you become a crutch of support - if you tire and take away that crutch, you've achieved nothing except isolate the abused person further.

'Professionals' are naturally there for the long-term in regards to providing help in these situations as well as having a better understanding of the overall circumstances and best practices for helping people out of these kinds of relationships.

Again, 'professional' could be the wrong word and I understand your pedantry in my use of it.

Yah, but I wasn't suggesting professional help. I was suggesting that those who are interested should go to a professional, i.e. the local GP, to find out what resources - in other words shelters, battered women attorneys, counselors &c. - she could contact and use. And then pass the info on to her so she is fully aware of her options.

Well, as an australian, I could go bother my local GP with that. The taxpayer would fork out $57 for a fifteen-minute chat with my GP.

I'm not so comfortable with that, to be honest. The local community centre, staffed mostly by volunteers, has all the same information, most of it on the big cork-board inside the front doors.

But other than that, there is nothing anyone can do for her. Don't get me wrong, I feel bad for her, but you have to treat people like adults at some point.

Well excuse me, but if "treating people like adults" means "here's some leaflets, hope you work it out" then ... no, I won't. I will continue to treat my friends and their friends like big children, and I'll try to take it in good faith when they treat me so.

Absolutely - good friends can be critical.

It may be that 'professional' is not the correct word but the context is about leaping in to help without fully understanding either the situation or the commitment you should be prepared to make if you truly want to help.

If you're a great friend, that commitment comes naturally. If not, it can be a strain for you, where you become a crutch of support - if you tire and take away that crutch, you've achieved nothing except isolate the abused person further.

'Professionals' are naturally there for the long-term in regards to providing help in these situations as well as having a better understanding of the overall circumstances and best practices for helping people out of these kinds of relationships.

Again, 'professional' could be the wrong word and I understand your pedantry in my use of it.

Thankyou. I went off on a rave about the commercialization of basic human functions like friendship, and AGAIN you brought me back to the point of the thread.

"Leaping in [without] understanding [or] the commitment [I'm] prepared to make" is a mistake I've made many times. I don't want to be a professional in that stuff, but perhaps a volunteer organization could train me up and expose me to some situations I'm not angry and irrational about.

In each case, I feel so passionately sure about what is right, and the outcome seems to be the exact opposite. Sitting silently and hoping seems to work better ...

Well, as an australian, I could go bother my local GP with that. The taxpayer would fork out $57 for a fifteen-minute chat with my GP.

I'm not so comfortable with that, to be honest. The local community centre, staffed mostly by volunteers, has all the same information, most of it on the big cork-board inside the front doors.


My local GP gives out stuff like this for free. Sometimes I suppose the US actually is better I suppose, despite what they say.


Well excuse me, but if "treating people like adults" means "here's some leaflets, hope you work it out" then ... no, I won't. I will continue to treat my friends and their friends like big children, and I'll try to take it in good faith when they treat me so.

You're framing what I said. Obviously I wouldn't just chuck some leaflets her way and say: "You are on your own".

But I would bear in mind that it's really her decision. I'm not about to make infants out of women, no matter how 'noble' the cause.

The funny thing is:

The same natural sympathy that urges us to help out an abused partner is the same urge that often accelerates an abused person into such a relationship. We see a fault and we want to correct it and there's the idea that, given time and care, the abused can 'help' the abuser and make him a better man.

It's a misguided sense of responsibility (this can be to family in the case of arranged or God in the case of religious-based marriages).

The point about the time you need to commit is that you're entering into a similar fantasy world if you're not fully aware of what's going on and why these things happen, understanding the mind of the abused (and the abuser).

It's not fair to expect someone, even yourself, to give up their right to pursue happiness in life, to live under a certain freedom of choice. How much time and resources can you dedicate to an abused partner, and for how long?

To some extent, that's where the key to opening up an abused person's situation lies - they should know that it's not fair for them to give up their lives to try and help the abuser, they have a right to freedom and happiness dammit and not be tied down to a miserable existence out of the misguided belief that they can ever solve the problem when, often, the guy is an out-and-out psychopath in the very real sense of the word. Male abusers often suffer from severe narcissism, everything is about them, that collides with the reality that they're not that great after all and, if they're not hitting alcohol, they're taking out their impotence and frustration on their partners.

My local GP gives out stuff like this for free. Sometimes I suppose the US actually is better I suppose, despite what they say.

If you mean "it's in the waiting room on rack for you to take" then yeah, my GP gives that out for free too. You said "talk to."

GP's don't charge by time there? You could sit and chat all day for the standard consultation fee?

I thought not.

You're framing what I said. Obviously I wouldn't just chuck some leaflets her way and say: "You are on your own".

But I would bear in mind that it's really her decision. I'm not about to make infants out of women, no matter how 'noble' the cause.

Well, fair enough. I misunderstood your definition of "adult" just as you misunderstood my definition of "child."

Children sometimes deserve adult rights, and adults sometimes respond to being infantalized. I think it's a rather arbitrary distinction, really, since we are all humans.

There are times when I'm so lost and helpless, I just need my mommy. I'm forty-three, I'm tough, intelligent and resourceful, but I'm still a little kid sometimes. I just want someone, anyone, to tell me I'm good and to go brush my hair.

YMMV.

The funny thing is:

The same natural sympathy that urges us to help out an abused partner is the same urge that often accelerates an abused person into such a relationship. We see a fault and we want to correct it and there's the idea that, given time and care, the abused can 'help' the abuser and make him a better man.

It's a misguided sense of responsibility (this can be to family in the case of arranged or God in the case of religious-based marriages).

The point about the time you need to commit is that you're entering into a similar fantasy world if you're not fully aware of what's going on and why these things happen, understanding the mind of the abused (and the abuser).

It's not fair to expect someone, even yourself, to give up their right to pursue happiness in life, to live under a certain freedom of choice. How much time and resources can you dedicate to an abused partner, and for how long?

To some extent, that's where the key to opening up an abused person's situation lies - they should know that it's not fair for them to give up their lives to try and help the abuser, they have a right to freedom and happiness dammit and not be tied down to a miserable existence out of the misguided belief that they can ever solve the problem when, often, the guy is an out-and-out psychopath in the very real sense of the word. Male abusers often suffer from severe narcissism, everything is about them, that collides with the reality that they're not that great after all and, if they're not hitting alcohol, they're taking out their impotence and frustration on their partners.

Sexist. This could apply with genders reversed.
Bloody right. Excellent analysis, I agree with every word.

If you mean "it's in the waiting room on rack for you to take" then yeah, my GP gives that out for free too. You said "talk to."

GP's don't charge by time there? You could sit and chat all day for the standard consultation fee?

I thought not.



Actually you've got him dead wrong. He does reserve time for a free clinic. I guess that's why the bastard is so poor.

Sexist. This could apply with genders reversed.

Yup, I'm a sexist pig :)

However, women are certainly in the minority when it comes to being physical abusers

It comes down to the age-old nature/nurture debate. Are men more likely to externalize their issues by genetics or by upbringing, and women vice versa.

To some extent, boys are excused violence from an early age under the 'boys will be boys' mentality whereas we'd concentrate on the fact that fighting is completely wrong in the case of girls.

I'm veering into enormous speculation here.

Actually you've got him dead wrong. He does reserve time for a free clinic. I guess that's why the bastard is so poor.

Good on your doctor. I still wonder why a doctor's skills would be necessary to refer anyone to a shelter or a social worker.

In fact, why take the time your decent doctor offers to those most in need to find information you or I could find on the internet?

It seems for now she just wants someone to talk to about it. He's alienated her from her kids (aren't his) and whatever of her family members that are still living. So ... I will let her vent to me when she needs it. I reckon I might hear from her a few times a month. I know if she really wanted to do something about it, or leave she could. He use to kick her out pretty often, and she would stay at a homeless shelter or whatever until she would get in touch with her aunt (now dead) to stay there a week or two. He'd know those were about the only two places she had to go, and when he got ready, he'd go get her. It's not like he'd flip if she left. So .. it is up to her. Where there is a will there is a way. She doesn't have the will at this time. That's that.

Thanks for the advice everyone.

I was drinking when I wrote this out and I see now, I put too much emphasis on my dad..making it look like he has regular dealings with them now, he doesn't. I do know them through him, but they aren't around each other much at all anymore since he shut down his business they lived next door to. Also .. I shouldn't have said she was my 'friend' .. she's an acquaintance. Just thought I'd clear up those two little things.