NationStates Jolt Archive

I'd like to thank the Academy!!!!!!

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Crude futures touched $80 a barrel for the first time ever on the New York Mercantile Exchange. October crude was last up $1.58, or 2%, at $79.81 a barrel. The Energy Department reported Wednesday that crude supplies dropped 7.1 million barrels, and motor gasoline inventories have been falling for six weeks in a row.

We finally did it! Let's see if we can get to $100 by December on heating oil demand! :D

and this is good news, why?

Let’s see if we can get to $100 by December on heating oil demand! :D
*pours crude oil down drain*

and this is good news, why?
teh sarcasm.

and this is good news, why?

Well, if you're into evolution it requires population bottlenecks for big changes to occur. This will probably cause one. :D

Other than that, see Chumbly's post. ;)

Well, if you're into evolution it requires population bottlenecks for big changes to occur. This will probably cause one. :D

Other than that, see Chumbly's post. ;)

Sarcasm does not covey as well over the net as it does in person, my apologies.

We finally did it! Let's see if we can get to $100 by December on heating oil demand! :D
It's a bit troubling that gasoline inventories are falling at this time of year. That could make the winter pretty interesting.

Sarcasm does not covey as well over the net as it does in person, my apologies.

No problem. Here's some eye candy for you! :p

http://wolf.readinglitho.co.uk/chartimages/a/a1oilprod.gif

Thank god I've scrapped my car (not literally) in favour (not literally) of a bike (literally)!

No problem. Here's some eye candy for you! :p

http://wolf.readinglitho.co.uk/chartimages/a/a1oilprod.gif

Click to see what Gir thinks of the oil situation! (http://www.siberkat.com/thewavszim2/yaydoomg.wav)

Thank you Gir.

We need to start building those nuclear power stations now while we can still afford it.

It's a bit troubling that gasoline inventories are falling at this time of year. That could make the winter pretty interesting.

It's not the drop in gasoline that concerns me. Refineries are switching from making gasolnie for the summer driving season to making heating oil for the winter now so you'd expect it at some level. It's the drop in crude. Much bigger than expected and probably due to a drop in imports which is probably due to the graph I posted coupled with rising domestic consumption in oil exporting countries.

We need to start building those nuclear power stations now while we can still afford it.

Yeah. Hopefully they're small enough to fit in the trunk of all of our cars. :)

Yeah. Hopefully they're small enough to fit in the trunk of all of our cars. :)

Yay for radioactive poising! :D

I vot I have the most appropriate sig! :)

Cicero tells us that Damocles sought gold and luxuries only to realize such things came with a sharp sword hanging by a slender thread above his head. And here we all sit, as the slender thread of oil thins.

We finally did it! Let's see if we can get to $100 by December on heating oil demand! :D

If so it looks as though I'll be paying my mom's heating bill so she doesn't freeze to death. I had to pay for it most of last winter, so I'm sure there's no way she can afford it this winter. Not that I can afford it either, being a college student, but more debt is preferable to letting my mom suffer through a subzero winter without heat.

If so it looks as though I'll be paying my mom's heating bill so she doesn't freeze to death. I had to pay for it most of last winter, so I'm sure there's no way she can afford it this winter. Not that I can afford it either, being a college student, but more debt is preferable to letting my mom suffer through a subzero winter without heat.

For the next year or two that might work. After that you'll probably have to invest in blankets. The Earth never promised us oil would be around forever. In fact, it made it quite clear it wouldn't be.

For the next year or two that might work. After that you'll probably have to invest in blankets. The Earth never promised us oil would be around forever. In fact, it made it quite clear it wouldn't be.

Invest in blankets? You should come up here and try to go a winter without heat. When I was young, we were dirt poor and couldn't afford to buy wood for the wood stove and went a winter without heat (this was during the 80s when unemployment in Michigan was around 15%). I'm sure you can imagine how unpleasant a winter of average -10 to -20 can be without heat.

But hey, fuck the poor, right?

Invest in blankets? You should come up here and try to go a winter without heat. When I was young, we were dirt poor and couldn't afford to buy wood for the wood stove and went a winter without heat (this was during the 80s when unemployment in Michigan was around 15%). I'm sure you can imagine how unpleasant a winter of average -10 to -20 can be without heat.

But hey, fuck the poor, right?

It's not so much "fuck the poor" as it is "oil is a finite resource and we may be at the point where decline in production is unavoidable." Why should the poor in America be more important than the poor in, say, sub-Saharan Africa? Especially in light of the fact that the poor in America are exceedingly rich in comparison? We built this bed. Now we have to lie in it.

At least natural gas is still relatively cheap...I think the situation there has mostly resolved itself for the time being, which means we'll likely not run in to a repeat of the winter of 2005 when the entire energy market was moving up, with natural gas actually entering a brief bubble that burst spectacularly in the following months and hasn't really budged since.

At least natural gas is still relatively cheap...I think the situation there has mostly resolved itself for the time being, which means we'll likely not run in to a repeat of the winter of 2005 when the entire energy market was moving up, with natural gas actually entering a brief bubble that burst spectacularly in the following months and hasn't really budged since.

Yeah. That's true. Thankfully, it will only require us to retrofit every building east of teh Mississippi to heat on NG rather than oil. We should be able to do that by December. Thankfully, NG is like pixie dust in that when we need more - say to heat all those millions of people's homes and offices - we can just fart it out our asses. :D

It's not so much "fuck the poor" as it is "oil is a finite resource and we may be at the point where decline in production is unavoidable." Why should the poor in America be more important than the poor in, say, sub-Saharan Africa? Especially in light of the fact that the poor in America are exceedingly rich in comparison? We built this bed. Now we have to lie in it.

So we should be as gleeful as you seem to be when we can't afford to heat our homes?

So we should be as gleeful as you seem to be when we can't afford to heat our homes?

I understand sarcasm doesn't come across easily on the net, but when's it's already been pointed out in the thread...

Yeah. That's true. Thankfully, it will only require us to retrofit every building east of teh Mississippi to heat on NG rather than oil. We should be able to do that by December. Thankfully, NG is like pixie dust in that when we need more - say to heat all those millions of people's homes and offices - we can just fart it out our asses. :D

Nah, let's all burn corn to heat our houses.

Although, actually, everywhere east of the Appalachians is more accurate. A lot of places in the Midwest are natural-gas heated, especially in the areas that are growing economically (like SW Ohio and the Columbus area).

I understand sarcasm doesn't come across easily on the net, but when's it's already been pointed out in the thread...

You've always seemed to come across as happy whenever oil prices go up, so I thought that was what you actually thought, and not a pattern of sarcasm. My apologies.

I hope it gets even more expensive.

I hope it gets even more expensive.

Be careful what you wish for. Altruism is a luxury of teh comfortable.

You've always seemed to come across as happy whenever oil prices go up, so I thought that was what you actually thought, and not a pattern of sarcasm. My apologies.

Sarcasm is my defense against despair. We're drunk, we're at the edge of the roof and no one seems to realize that the issue of energy depletion is the most important issue in the universe.

They will soon enough.

Yeah. That's true. Thankfully, it will only require us to retrofit every building east of teh Mississippi to heat on NG rather than oil. We should be able to do that by December. Thankfully, NG is like pixie dust in that when we need more - say to heat all those millions of people's homes and offices - we can just fart it out our asses. :D

Most new construction does use natural gas -- either directly or for generating electricity.

Now coal is an idea whose time may come again...Better scrubbers, more efficient boilers -- It's going to be centuries before we run out of coal.

This is one of the many reasons why I don't own a car. Money down the drain.(to me)

Most new construction does use natural gas -- either directly or for generating electricity.

That's a relief.

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/3/3c/UsNaturalGasProductionAndPrices.png


Now coal is an idea whose time may come again...Better scrubbers, more efficient boilers -- It's going to be centuries before we run out of coal.

Yeah. Your house may get alittle smokey, though. Luckily for me I live in So Cal and the gas tank on my bike can hold plenty of coal.

Even the most optomistic projections say that the US has enough coal at present rates of usage for 200 years. At present rates of useage. At present rates of usage.

As we sub coal for oil we will no longer be at present rates of usage and that prediction no longer holds true. In anycase, a full audit of the US's or the world's coal reserves hadn't been done since the 60's - until recently...

The United States may not have nearly as much coal as is popularly believed, and mining the remaining resources may be more dangerous for workers and the environment than current operations, the National Academy of Sciences said in a report Wednesday.

With domestic production of oil, gas and uranium far below peaks, coal has been promoted by elected officials and energy experts as the only bright spot in the national fuel supply picture. But as Congress considers billions of dollars in aid for projects to make gasoline and diesel substitutes from coal, and to build coal-fired plants that would capture their own carbon emissions, the study said that estimates of coal reserves were unreliable.

“There is probably sufficient coal to meet the nation’s needs for more than 100 years at current rates of consumption,” the study said. “However, it is not possible to confirm the often-quoted assertion that there is a sufficient supply of coal for the next 250 years.”

The 250-year estimate was made in the 1970s and was based on the assumption that 25 percent of the coal that had been located was recoverable with current technology and at current prices, said one member of the study group, Edward S. Rubin, a professor of environmental engineering and science at Carnegie Mellon University.

But he said that more recent studies by the United States Geological Survey showed that at least in some areas, only 5 percent of the coal was recoverable with today’s technology and at current prices. The 100-year forecast was based on current consumption rates, about 1.1 billion tons a year. By 2030, the rate of coal consumption could be 70 percent higher or 50 percent lower than it is now, the study found.

http://www.energybulletin.net/31213.html

Are the majority of US homes heated by oil? I'm pretty sure the majority of homes in the UK are heated by gas, but I don't know the figures.

Are the majority of US homes heated by oil? I'm pretty sure the majority of homes in the UK are heated by gas, but I don't know the figures.

Most buildings built before the 60's are heated by oil. Most building built after the 60's are heated by gas. Most of the expansion of the US prior to the 60s was east of the Mississippi. Most expansion afterwards was west of it. Almost no homes west of the Mississippi use heating oil, therefore, while most of the buildings east of it do.

The US imports oil. It will import coal and coal products as well. And uranium, for that matter. Canada is a good source of both.

I'll admit I was surprised when I learned how many homes in North America were heated by oil. I grew up with natural gas in all the homes I ever saw.

But if oil becomes prhibitively expensive, gas will follow. A lot of industrial consumers can easily switch back and forth between oil and gas based on prices, so oil prices do drive up gas prices pretty quickly.

My house burns Propane to keep warm, I tell you whut!

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/f/f8/200px-HankHill.jpg

The US imports oil. It will import coal and coal products as well. And uranium, for that matter. Canada is a good source of both.

And we have abundant supplies of coal to meet our needs in addition to imports along with the untapped resources in parts of the country currently closed to exploration. Not to mention propane and natural gas, which are abundant and could be imported via LNG terminals (whose capacity is increasing considerably around the country and in countries like Mexico, Trinidad, and Canada where they can be brought in via pipeline).

Really, the supplies of heating fuels are quite abundant. Increases in energy efficiency could shave off a lot of demand even without any conservation.

But if oil becomes prhibitively expensive, gas will follow. A lot of industrial consumers can easily switch back and forth between oil and coal based on prices, so oil prices do drive up gas prices pretty quickly.

Which, of course, can have a downside effect on oil prices. It's rather helpful at mitigating price swings.

Yeah. Hopefully they're small enough to fit in the trunk of all of our cars. :)
Electric cars. We'll use fission to produce the electricity.

We might even use fission to produce hydrogen, which we could then burn for things like commercial aviation. BUt we need more nuclear plants to make this work, and we need them soon.

I'm old enough to remember the oil boom back in the eighties. And my mother worked in the oil industry for years as a seismographer/cartographer/draftswoman. Great times if you're selling the stuff. I also recall the concerns of folk then who had a hard time keeping the heat on. Texans, being compassionate folks, had a favorite bumpersticker for the times. "Let the Goddamn Yankees freeze in the dark.":rolleyes:

Electric cars. We'll use fission to produce the electricity.Cool. I'll go buy one right now.

We might even use fission to produce hydrogen, which we could then burn for things like commercial aviation. BUt we need more nuclear plants to make this work, and we need them soon.

http://www.derekwadsworth.com/pict/space.jpg

And we have abundant supplies of coal to meet our needs in addition to imports along with the untapped resources in parts of the country currently closed to exploration.See post at end of page two.


Not to mention propane and natural gas, which are abundant and could be imported via LNG terminals (whose capacity is increasing considerably around the country and in countries like Mexico, Trinidad, and Canada where they can be brought in via pipeline).See post at end of page two

Really, the supplies of heating fuels are quite abundant. Increases in energy efficiency could shave off a lot of demand even without any conservation.See post at end of page two.



Which, of course, can have a downside effect on oil prices. It's rather helpful at mitigating price swings.

See post at end of page two.

The US imports oil. It will import coal and coal products as well. And uranium, for that matter. Canada is a good source of both.From where? Source it, please...

I'll admit I was surprised when I learned how many homes in North America were heated by oil. I grew up with natural gas in all the homes I ever saw.

But if oil becomes prhibitively expensive, gas will follow. A lot of industrial consumers can easily switch back and forth between oil and coal based on prices, so oil prices do drive up gas prices pretty quickly.

No they can't.

Most buildings built before the 60's are heated by oil. Most building built after the 60's are heated by gas. Most of the expansion of the US prior to the 60s was east of the Mississippi. Most expansion afterwards was west of it. Almost no homes west of the Mississippi use heating oil, therefore, while most of the buildings east of it do.

Well that sucks.

Well that sucks.
Yep. I've lived mostly in the southern and western parts of the US most of my life. While I have lived in a couple of houses heated by propane, most were heated by natural gas. None by oil. Apparently Americans aren't big on standardization.

Apparently Americans aren't big on standardization.

That's mostly because America is big.

Yeah. Hopefully they're small enough to fit in the trunk of all of our cars. :)
Personally, I'm hoping the oil crisis will hit harder on the use of gasoline in automobiles than other uses of oil, like let's say for plastics. People in cars can roll up their windows to keep their own transportation means' pollution out but people who walk or ride bike don't have windows to roll up and have to breathe what someone ELSE poisoned... the ones doing the least pollution are the ones being affected by it the worst for the very same reason.

Even if we were to have cars not fueled by gasoline, which by all means would be a great step up for many reasons, there would still be the issue of traffic, and pedestrians, the ones who clearly priorize their health more highly, would be the more vulnerable ones because of the actions of those less vulnerable...

Personally, I'm hoping the oil crisis will hit harder on the use of gasoline in automobiles than other uses of oil, like let's say for plastics. People in cars can roll up their windows to keep their own transportation means' pollution out but people who walk or ride bike don't have windows to roll up and have to breathe what someone ELSE poisoned... the ones doing the least pollution are the ones being affected by it the worst for the very same reason.

Even if we were to have cars not fueled by gasoline, which by all means would be a great step up for many reasons, there would still be the issue of traffic, and pedestrians, the ones who clearly priorize their health more highly, would be the more vulnerable ones because of the actions of those less vulnerable...

It'll hit every use of oil including the use of oil to pump water for irrigation and the production of fertalizers and pesticides, the use of oil in mining minerals like uranium, nickle and iron, the use of oil to produce medicines and plastics, teh use of oil to transport ceaser salads from california's central valley to Toronto...

Cool. I'll go buy one right now.
No one's making them yet because there's no real demand for them.
http://www.derekwadsworth.com/pict/space.jpg
Speaking of which, space is a great place to collect solar energy...

No one's making them yet because there's no real demand for them.They do, but I can't because I can't afford to - like most people. Most of America is pretty in debt right now. you expect them to all go out and buy new cars?

Speaking of which, space is a great place to collect solar energy...

Not really. Sure there's a lot of it there, but how to collect a lot of it and get it back here by Christmas?

It'll hit every use of oil including the use of oil to pump water for irrigation and the production of fertalizers and pesticides, the use of oil in mining minerals like uranium, nickle and iron, the use of oil to produce medicines and plastics, teh use of oil to transport ceaser salads from california's central valley to Toronto...
The Canadian tar mines used to run on electricity, but now they run primarily on diesel fuel. Diesel is cheaper.

The Canadian tar mines used to run on electricity, but now they run primarily on diesel fuel. Diesel is cheaper.

Sure, but that decreases total production because you are essentially using your own supply.

Also, I'm going racing next Saturday. Last time I managed roughly 17l/100km, I'm planning to top that this time.

And then I'll go back to worrying about important things, like my uni exams. Stuff that I can actually influence, and that I can deal with without constantly having to tell others about the great insight I have into the grave problem of getting good marks on a uni exam.

Also, I'm going racing next Saturday. Last time I managed roughly 17l/100km, I'm planning to top that this time.

And then I'll go back to worrying about important things, like my uni exams. Stuff that I can actually influence, and that I can deal with without constantly having to tell others about the great insight I have into the grave problem of getting good marks on a uni exam.

You know, your country is one of the very few countries that seems to have a government that actually takes this seriously at more than a local level. We have a few cities and states here that have vaguely acknowledged the problem with meaningless legislation, but there's nary a mention of it in Congress and our president is much too stupid to understand anything.

It's a bit troubling that gasoline inventories are falling at this time of year. That could make the winter pretty interesting.

Especially up here. I don't particularly relish the thought of freezing to death.

Especially up here. I don't particularly relish the thought of freezing to death.

Get out.

Get out.

Love to. You want to come pick me up, put me up at your place, and pay out of state tuition for me so I can transfer to a university where you are?

Be careful what you wish for. Altruism is a luxury of teh comfortable.

Ha ha, how much you assume about my life.

This makes me happy. Seriously...it actually makes me happy to see this. I'm going to enjoy watching the effects on civilization.

Ha ha, how much you assume about my life.

I don't assume anything except that you probably aren't a goat hearder from Darfur or a rice paddy farmer from Vietnam. I think I'm probably correct in my assumption that you are probably from a Western country and are sitting in front of a computer in some place you call a home with electricity and running water and access to transportation when you need it to go buy a wide variety of food which is available to you whenever you want it at restaurants and fast food joints and supermarkets. Besides that I assume nothing except that Peak Oil will probably change all that and that as ready as you think you are for it you probably are not. If you are from a developing country then you are probably from that county's upper class.

I'm not a financial expert.

But can we NOW buy huge piles of oil bonds to sell them later?

You'll always have profit, no?

I'm not a financial expert.

But can we NOW buy huge piles of oil bonds to sell them later?

You'll always have profit, no?

well, they're called oil futures contracts and they're very expensive and, yes, you can make a lot of money but there are risks. There is already a bet placed in teh price that TD will hit the GOM. As it gets closer that bet will increase the price of the contracts so the earlier you buy the better. The problem is that if it misses you could take a loss unless something else props up the price. It's a littel more complicated than that but that's how it works roughly. I don't like to type enough to explain it more in depth but you can go here:

www.nymex.com

to learn more.

and this is good news, why?
Well, I'm happy because I've got twenty bucks riding on the fact that Human civilization will have ended by 2020.
Of course, a $20 bill won't actually be worth anything if we've regressed to a lawless dark age, but whatevs. Money is money, and winning is everything.

Not really. Sure there's a lot of it there, but how to collect a lot of it and get it back here by Christmas?
Lasers.

It's a bit troubling that gasoline inventories are falling at this time of year. That could make the winter pretty interesting.

come to Hawaii, winter here!

It's a bit troubling that gasoline inventories are falling at this time of year. That could make the winter pretty interesting.

Although snow,bitter cold(under 32F[0C-AKA FREEZING!!]),and harsh wind still occur like clock work global warming will take care of that soon.Tropical paridise here we come!!Not to mention today(Sept. 21st)The official first day of fall was like 80F(no joke!).

Although snow,bitter cold(under 32F[0C-AKA FREEZING!!]),and harsh wind still occur like clock work global warming will take care of that soon.Tropical paridise here we come!!Not to mention today(Sept. 21st)The official first day of fall was like 80F(no joke!).

Yeah, no. You'll still have climates, and shifting weather patterns. The effect of the Earth's axial tilt--in other words, the whole reason we have seasons--is not going to go away just because the Earth's atmosphere is going to be warmer.

We'll have an OVERALL warmer climate, yes, but we'll certainly still have winter, spring, summer, and autumn. In many cases depending on how crazy the climate goes, we might have harsher winters.

I'd like to thank the Academy!!!!!!
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5j7tOaP6cK9zqSPR6KnqJNxyVWCzQ
In accepting the Emmy for her Bravo reality show, "My Life on the D-List," Griffin said that "a lot of people come up here and thank Jesus for this award. I want you to know that no one had less to do with this award than Jesus."

She went on to hold up her Emmy, make an off-color remark about Christ and proclaim, "This award is my god now!"



Erm, what?