NationStates Jolt Archive

O.K. so I know it's not all Americans, but ffs, there are people in various states wanting to change laws to make gay people feel even more isolated. People have killed themselves because of the hatred they get from other kids, not helped by so-called "professionals" encouraging (either directly, or indirectly by doing nothing about it) such behaviour.

I know Britain has some probs, but it's nowhere near as bad - for example the majority were in support of Civil Partnerships (similar to marriage) for gay people, yet the US population can't even handle that.

And I know there are much worse countries, but bloody hell, the US is SUPPOSED to be a civilised country.

Why can't (a large amount of) people from the USA just leave gay and bisexual people alone? They aint harming you, they aint trying to take over the country, they aint trying to (and CAN'T anyway) "turn" your kids gay or bisexual (though if you're one of the homophobic parents, for all you know your kids are gay/bisexual and too frightened to tell you), they aint trying to ruin your values (how many gay people have you heard calling for heterosexual marriage to be outlawed?)... in fact they're doing NOTHING to you so WHY do so many people in what's supposed to be a civilised country hate gay people and support state-sanctioned murder?

Who told you this was a civilized country?

O.K. so I know it's not all Americans, but ffs, there are people in various states wanting to change laws to make gay people feel even more isolated. People have killed themselves because of the hatred they get from other kids, not helped by so-called "professionals" encouraging (either directly, or indirectly by doing nothing about it) such behaviour.

I know Britain has some probs, but it's nowhere near as bad - for example the majority were in support of Civil Partnerships (similar to marriage) for gay people, yet the US population can't even handle that.

And I know there are much worse countries, but bloody hell, the US is SUPPOSED to be a civilised country.

Why can't (a large amount of) people from the USA just leave gay and bisexual people alone? They aint harming you, they aint trying to take over the country, they aint trying to (and CAN'T anyway) "turn" your kids gay or bisexual (though if you're one of the homophobic parents, for all you know your kids are gay/bisexual and too frightened to tell you), they aint trying to ruin your values (how many gay people have you heard calling for heterosexual marriage to be outlawed?)... in fact they're doing NOTHING to you so WHY do so many people in what's supposed to be a civilised country hate gay people and support state-sanctioned murder?

Because gay people cause cancer. Gays give off gaydiation which causes tumors in straight people who are unfortunate enough to spend considerable time in close proximity to gays. It's a matter of survival. *nod*

;)

Because gay people cause cancer. Gays give of gaydiation which causes tumors in straight people who are unfortunate enough to spend considerable time in close proximity to gays. It's a matter of survival. *nod*

;)
the gays also cause all the hurricanes y'all get. or that's what i heard.

O.K. so I know it's not all Americans, but ffs, there are people in various states wanting to change laws to make gay people feel even more isolated. People have killed themselves because of the hatred they get from other kids, not helped by so-called "professionals" encouraging (either directly, or indirectly by doing nothing about it) such behaviour.

I know Britain has some probs, but it's nowhere near as bad - for example the majority were in support of Civil Partnerships (similar to marriage) for gay people, yet the US population can't even handle that.

And I know there are much worse countries, but bloody hell, the US is SUPPOSED to be a civilised country.

Why can't (a large amount of) people from the USA just leave gay and bisexual people alone? They aint harming you, they aint trying to take over the country, they aint trying to (and CAN'T anyway) "turn" your kids gay or bisexual (though if you're one of the homophobic parents, for all you know your kids are gay/bisexual and too frightened to tell you), they aint trying to ruin your values (how many gay people have you heard calling for heterosexual marriage to be outlawed?)... in fact they're doing NOTHING to you so WHY do so many people in what's supposed to be a civilised country hate gay people and support state-sanctioned murder?

*agrees*

Because people are naturally uncomfortable when they're around someone who is different from them...and that's really quite lame.

I know Britain has some probs, but it's nowhere near as bad - for example the majority were in support of Civil Partnerships (similar to marriage) for gay people, yet the US population can't even handle that.

They can't?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-03-09-gaymarriage-usat_x.htm

*shrug* Why can't Brits just shut up and drink their tea?

mmm, tea.... BEATS COFFEE! har har har har rule britannia...
actually britain is the most right wing country in europe, so we have a lot of intolerance and crime as a result. We ain't that great, and let ye who is without sin cast the first stone, of course I am guilty of intolerance all the time, so i can't really preach at y'all.

We should all just try get along, americans, british, arabic, chinese, indian... hell, even the FRENCH! ;)

O.K. so I know it's not all Americans, but ffs, there are people in various states wanting to change laws to make gay people feel even more isolated. People have killed themselves because of the hatred they get from other kids, not helped by so-called "professionals" encouraging (either directly, or indirectly by doing nothing about it) such behaviour.

I know Britain has some probs, but it's nowhere near as bad - for example the majority were in support of Civil Partnerships (similar to marriage) for gay people, yet the US population can't even handle that.

And I know there are much worse countries, but bloody hell, the US is SUPPOSED to be a civilised country.

Why can't (a large amount of) people from the USA just leave gay and bisexual people alone? They aint harming you, they aint trying to take over the country, they aint trying to (and CAN'T anyway) "turn" your kids gay or bisexual (though if you're one of the homophobic parents, for all you know your kids are gay/bisexual and too frightened to tell you), they aint trying to ruin your values (how many gay people have you heard calling for heterosexual marriage to be outlawed?)... in fact they're doing NOTHING to you so WHY do so many people in what's supposed to be a civilised country hate gay people and support state-sanctioned murder?

Honestly? (Conservative) Christianity. Had it not entered the equation, it wouldn't be this way.

Honestly? (Conservative) Christianity. Had it not entered the equation, it wouldn't be this way.

This is what happens when your nation is founded by people too uptight for the British.

This is what happens when your nation is founded by people too uptight for the British.

Heh. It's funny, because if we'd actually listen to those founders, we wouldn't have this huge Christian effort to join Church and State.

I was thinking more of Puritans and Pilgrims. Man were those folks wound tight!

Oh, right. I should have focused on the "too uptight" part and not the "founded the country" part. The puritans were rather before we had a country of our own! :p

Heh. It's funny, because if we'd actually listen to those founders, we wouldn't have this huge Christian effort to join Church and State.

I was thinking more of Puritans and Pilgrims. Man were those folks wound tight!

mmm, tea.... BEATS COFFEE! har har har har rule britannia...
actually britain is the most right wing country in europe, so we have a lot of intolerance and crime as a result. We ain't that great, and let ye who is without sin cast the first stone, of course I am guilty of intolerance all the time, so i can't really preach at y'all.

We should all just try get along, americans, british, arabic, chinese, indian... hell, even the FRENCH! ;)

Oi we aint right wing, right! And the French! Well they can fuck right orf!
Umm cept the wimmin, they're quite nice they are.:eek:

*shrug* Why can't Brits just shut up and drink their tea?

We still haven't forgiven you for Boston: throwing good tea into the sea is an act of sacrilege.

*nods*

On a serious note:
The main reason gays are finding problems in the civil union arena is because those with straight marriages feel that it causes their own marriage to be worth less because if gays were allowed civil union then they would be allowed to file taxes, insurance, etc. as married. Most married feel that they have earned this and gays with a civil union marriage are just a corrupt version of themselves. It has nothing to do with civility, but more to do with fear.:eek:

*shrug* Why can't Brits just shut up and drink their tea?

I prefer beer... *shrug*

Because gay people cause cancer. Gays give off gaydiation which causes tumors in straight people who are unfortunate enough to spend considerable time in close proximity to gays. It's a matter of survival. *nod*

;)*uses some Uranium from Uranus to gaionise LG with gaydiation, all through a CNN satellite broadcast*

*watches in horror as the new LG causes his gayger counter to esplode*

overkill = love

O.K. so I know it's not all Americans, but ffs, there are people in various states wanting to change laws to make gay people feel even more isolated. People have killed themselves because of the hatred they get from other kids, not helped by so-called "professionals" encouraging (either directly, or indirectly by doing nothing about it) such behaviour.

I know Britain has some probs, but it's nowhere near as bad - for example the majority were in support of Civil Partnerships (similar to marriage) for gay people, yet the US population can't even handle that.

And I know there are much worse countries, but bloody hell, the US is SUPPOSED to be a civilised country.

Why can't (a large amount of) people from the USA just leave gay and bisexual people alone? They aint harming you, they aint trying to take over the country, they aint trying to (and CAN'T anyway) "turn" your kids gay or bisexual (though if you're one of the homophobic parents, for all you know your kids are gay/bisexual and too frightened to tell you), they aint trying to ruin your values (how many gay people have you heard calling for heterosexual marriage to be outlawed?)... in fact they're doing NOTHING to you so WHY do so many people in what's supposed to be a civilised country hate gay people and support state-sanctioned murder?
Gotta admit, I really don't get why America is so full of these weird notions about sex, while other countries are far more mellow about it.

*shrug* Why can't Brits just shut up and drink their tea?Because we need to have something to do whilst we wait for our tea to brew.

*shrug* Why can't Brits just shut up and drink their tea?

Because you stole our fucking tea plantations during your so-called War of so-called Independence?

Because you stole our fucking tea plantations during your so-called War of so-called Independence.

Oh please, that's why you moved east and started clubbing Indians like baby seals for your tea.

Oh please, that's why you moved east and started clubbing Indians like baby seals for your tea.

Yea, but we had to give those ones back too.

Gotta admit, I really don't get why America is so full of these weird notions about sex, while other countries are far more mellow about it.

amen to that. I hate how are government tells us what we can and can't do with our bodies. (even tho they really have no say [what goes on in your house STAYS in your house, or wherever it may be])

oh and religion to telling you what to do

They can't?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-03-09-gaymarriage-usat_x.htm

1. Why can't the media make up their minds and
2. 54% aint a large majority

What were the "new laws" that were being referred to in the original remark, I don’t believe those were ever discussed (other than they are making homosexuals more isolated)

If its just a remark about America in general on the issue of gay rights... isn't it a matter of timing, and partially gay activist own doing? They are the ones pushing for referendums. (Which seem to be continually going against them)!

There is a reason why Lincoln didn't push for a constitutional amendment (and settled for the far less reaching emancipation proclamation) to free blacks before or during the civil war, because it wouldn’t have passed or would have been able to be challenged. Timing is everything, especially on social issues.

amen to that. I hate how are government tells us what we can and can't do with our bodies. (even tho they really have no say [what goes on in your house STAYS in your house, or wherever it may be])

incest?

What were the "new laws" that were being referred to in the original remark, I don’t believe those were ever discussed (other than they are making homosexuals more isolated)

Can't remember specific terms, but basically laws that say something like "Civil Partnerships can never be legal in this state and if anyone tries to make em legal then they'll be breaking the law" or something equally stupid.

*uses some Uranium from Uranus to gaionise LG with gaydiation, all through a CNN satellite broadcast*

*watches in horror as the new LG causes his gayger counter to esplode*

overkill = love

:fluffle:

There is a reason why Lincoln didn't push for a constitutional amendment (and settled for the far less reaching emancipation proclamation) to free blacks before or during the civil war,

And that reason is that Lincoln wasn't particularly concerned with abolishing slavery or ensuring the legal equality of black Americans. The Emancipation Proclamation was used as a tactic to keep Europe from entering the war on the side of the South (which they were strongly considering because the North was blockading the South and depriving Europe of cotton).

So yeah, people who aren't strongly motivated to push for equality will tend to prioritize their own political goals over achieving legal equality. This is news?

Timing is everything, especially on social issues.
Every major step in ensuring equality for women or minorities in America has been fought for, tooth and nail, over the sobbing objections of those who desperately wish to preserve the status quo. Pandering to the tender feelings of those who would deny you equal human dignity is a waste of time; they're going to bitch and moan no matter what, so you might as well demand your rights now.

I say lets the gay get married, I mean what the hell do I care? If I get married to a woman, and if a married gay couple move in next door to me, I'm not going to care, it's not going to affect my relationship, Hell I may ask them for decorating and work out advice! I got to have a firm ass don't you know?

I am Wilgrove, I am a Libertarian, and I support gay marriage. :D

And that reason is that Lincoln wasn't particularly concerned with abolishing slavery or ensuring the legal equality of black Americans. The Emancipation Proclamation was used as a tactic to keep Europe from entering the war on the side of the South (which they were strongly considering because the North was blockading the South and depriving Europe of cotton)

If Lincoln had no interest in freeing the slaves, why did he so fervently support 13th Amendment, which in fact did free all slaves in the union? And why in the last speech that he addressed did he push for the idea of extending the national vote to African Americans?

"Last Public Address
April 11, 1865

It is also unsatisfactory to some that the elective franchise is not given to the colored man. I would myself prefer that it were now conferred on the very intelligent, and on those who serve our cause as soldiers.

(VIII, 403)
"

I think you miss understood the real purpose of the Emancipation Proclamation, which was just a tool to set the stage for the 13th Amendment once the rebellion was put down.

So yeah, people who aren't strongly motivated to push for equality will tend to prioritize their own political goals over achieving legal equality. This is news?


Every major step in ensuring equality for women or minorities in America has been fought for, tooth and nail, over the sobbing objections of those who desperately wish to preserve the status quo. Pandering to the tender feelings of those who would deny you equal human dignity is a waste of time; they're going to bitch and moan no matter what, so you might as well demand your rights now.


Yet wouldn't it be more pertinent to wait for a time when the social climate in the country is more open to receive and accept your arguments rather then trying to bull rush a system when its on the defense. There are some social activists that saw the push for gay marriage legalization in Mass. as a set back, because while they received one victory in that state they offset a rush of referendums across the country outlawing both marriage and civil unions.

Is there always going to be resistance to such social movements? Of course! Should you pander to these groups when they are in the minority? no. But should you be fighting for these rights at a time when conservatives basically own the country (which is when the first referendums were taking place), probably not. That would have been like pushing for a constitutional amendment when the south could have easily voted in opposition to it.

If Lincoln had no interest in freeing the slaves, why did he so fervently support 13th Amendment, which in fact did free all slaves in the union? And why in the last speech that he addressed did he push for the idea of extending the national vote to African Americans?

"Last Public Address
April 11, 1865

It is also unsatisfactory to some that the elective franchise is not given to the colored man. I would myself prefer that it were now conferred on the very intelligent, and on those who serve our cause as soldiers.

(VIII, 403)
"

I think you miss understood the real purpose of the Emancipation Proclamation, which was just a tool to set the stage for the 13th Amendment once the rebellion was put down.

I didn't say Lincoln had NO INTEREST, I said he wasn't particularly concerned with it. In other words, he had bigger fish to fry.

Here, let him tell you in his own words:

"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that."

Lincoln personally despised slavery, but that's not what I was talking about.


Yet wouldn't it be more pertinent to wait for a time when the social climate in the country is more open to receive and accept your arguments rather then trying to bull rush a system when its on the defense.

According to our history, no. If anything, we should push harder for legal equality immediately.

You know what has been shown to be causing the biggest shift in the gay rights debate? The fact that the younger generation is one in which kids have grown up around gay families. Kids know somebody who has gay parents. Kids know many people who are out. They've grown up in a world where homosexuality is visible and--shock of shocks--actually pretty normal.

This is only true because of the brave men and women who were visible and honest about their sexuality despite how uncomfortable it may have made some people.


There are some social activists that saw the push for gay marriage legalization in Mass. as a set back, because while they received one victory in that state they offset a rush of referendums across the country outlawing both marriage and civil unions.

Gay people couldn't get married in any of those states before Mass legalized it. They still can't get married there now. But at least there is one state brave enough to recognize their status. That's one more than they had before.

The abolishing of slavery in the North set off savage objections and legal measures across the South. Are you suggesting that Northern states should have permitted legal slavery until such time as the rich white Southerners stopped being such whiny-ass babies about it? Fuck, we'd have still had slavery into the 1950s if we'd done that.


Is there always going to be resistance to such social movements? Of course! Should you pander to these groups when they are in the minority? no. But should you be fighting for these rights at a time when conservatives basically own the country (which is when the first referendums were taking place), probably not.

You say "probably not," yet it has worked out wonderfully so far. Homophobic conservatives are becoming a laughingstock, and are increasingly viewed as being out of the mainstream (which they are). Hell, one of the main reasons conservatives are losing power is because they keep harping on the anti-gay message, but that message has been openly debunked so many times that it's only working with the 20% of the population who are going to hate fags no matter what.


That would have been like pushing for a constitutional amendment when the south could have easily voted in opposition to it.
That's how these movements work, dear. The movement starts precisely because it's not a popular idea. If it were a popular idea, then equality would already exist. You start fighting and making noise because the prevailing popular standard is unjust. You don't succeed right away, because that's not how this shit works. It's NEVER going to become popular all by itself. It takes activism to achieve that.

Basically, you are suggesting that we all sit back while the work gets done for us. Cool our heels until the winds have already changed, and people are already okay with the notion of equality. Fuck that noise. Won't happen unless somebody makes it happen, and I'm not so lazy and selfish as to expect others to do the hard work while I sit around.

We still haven't forgiven you for Boston: throwing good tea into the sea is an act of sacrilege.

*nods*

Pfft, as long as it wasn't Darjeeling, it belongs at the bottom of the sea.

Well, the cognitive dissonance inherent in the USA stems from the combination of puritanism and capitalism.

PURITANISM: The fear that somewhere, somehow, SOMEone is having a good time.

CAPTIALISM: The fear that somewhere, somehow, SOMEthing is not being exploited for financial gain.

Those two impulses collide in such jarring ways. Most commonly on Sundays and Mondays during televised football games: JUST SAY NO TO DRUGS! (This Bud's For You, and here's a car ad, too, wink-wink, dont drink and drive). But also in schools and culture aimed at young people: SEX IS BAD, ABORTIONS ARE BAD! (Britney, Lindsay, Paris, MTV, reality TV, "sex sells", etc.)

When the profit-at-any-price motive combines with "moral majority"-type judgment, the cognitive dissonance becomes enough to shatter psyches like a Wagnerian soprano shreds a brandy snifter.

We still haven't forgiven you for Boston: throwing good tea into the sea is an act of sacrilege.

*nods*

Well, so was George III. Inflicting heinous taxes without so much as a by-your-leave amounted to getting free milk and then demanding the colonists pay for the privilege of giving the majority of it to you...LONG after feudalism had ended.

On a serious note:
The main reason gays are finding problems in the civil union arena is because those with straight marriages feel that it causes their own marriage to be worth less because if gays were allowed civil union then they would be allowed to file taxes, insurance, etc. as married. Most married feel that they have earned this and gays with a civil union marriage are just a corrupt version of themselves. It has nothing to do with civility, but more to do with fear.:eek:

Most hate is 90% fear. It's also 10% love. Love of the status quo, or what they see as "normal", and desperately trying to hold on to it in the face of any reasonable argument.

Because you stole our fucking tea plantations during your so-called War of so-called Independence?

So-called? You see a Union Jack flying over the Captiol, pal? Through taxes and export, those plantations were paid for many times over.

The abolishing of slavery in the North set off savage objections and legal measures across the South. Are you suggesting that Northern states should have permitted legal slavery until such time as the rich white Southerners stopped being such whiny-ass babies about it? Fuck, we'd have still had slavery into the 1950s if we'd done that.

To see how that might look, check out a film called C.S.A. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0389828/) by kevin Wilmott. The production values are wanting for money, but it's an interesting hypothetical mockumentary on the "what if the Confederates had won" theme. There's a bit at the end which tells you more about the mock commericals used to break up the documentary as if you were watching it on CSA Network TV.

I came across it on AMC or IFC by random chance and was mesmerized by it.

Is now the right time to ask whether there were actually any tea plantations in colonial North America?

Is now the right time to ask whether there were actually any tea plantations in colonial North America?

I'm pretty sure it was largely tobacco and cotton. Tea's more of a East and West Indies sort of thing. And China....and most of Asia.

Reading through this lot I wonder...if you find the British such a difficult lot to get on with I do wish you North americans (Quebec excepted) would stop mangling our language !

O.K. so I know it's not all Americans, but ffs, there are people in various states wanting to change laws to make gay people feel even more isolated. People have killed themselves because of the hatred they get from other kids, not helped by so-called "professionals" encouraging (either directly, or indirectly by doing nothing about it) such behaviour.

I know Britain has some probs, but it's nowhere near as bad - for example the majority were in support of Civil Partnerships (similar to marriage) for gay people, yet the US population can't even handle that.

And I know there are much worse countries, but bloody hell, the US is SUPPOSED to be a civilised country.

Why can't (a large amount of) people from the USA just leave gay and bisexual people alone? They aint harming you, they aint trying to take over the country, they aint trying to (and CAN'T anyway) "turn" your kids gay or bisexual (though if you're one of the homophobic parents, for all you know your kids are gay/bisexual and too frightened to tell you), they aint trying to ruin your values (how many gay people have you heard calling for heterosexual marriage to be outlawed?)... in fact they're doing NOTHING to you so WHY do so many people in what's supposed to be a civilised country hate gay people and support state-sanctioned murder?

Nice try, Brit.

From my experience, Brits are perfectly tollerant, but they sure as hell aren't an accepting group of people.

Some friends from the UK came over last year and they were, "Surprised at how nice people here in the States are."

Like all people and places in the world. Some are nice, and others not so much.

Oi we aint right wing, right! And the French! Well they can fuck right orf!
Umm cept the wimmin, they're quite nice they are.:eek:

Except the wimmin? Thanks for being a perfect example of an idiotic person :) We are right wing (or some of us are, I'm not). But seriously. The french. They've done nothing wrong. Same as the Germans. And the rest of the world. Its just certain groups of people coming from those country.

Nice try, Brit.

From my experience, Brits are perfectly tollerant, but they sure as hell aren't an accepting group of people.

Some friends from the UK came over last year and they were, "Surprised at how nice people here in the States are."

Like all people and places in the world. Some are nice, and others not so much.

Yeah Brits aren't exactly known for their friendliness, but some of us are nice! America is friendly, I think (in some parts). But the conservative christians. Don't even go there.

They can't?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-03-09-gaymarriage-usat_x.htm

Funny how people seem to blow right by that when it doesn't fit into their ideal of the uptight American.

I think a better question to ask is, why is right wing christianity so much more popular in the USA?

I support equal rights for all of humanity. . . Until an individual seriously causes me trouble, in which case I personally remove their right to bodily safety.:p



By the way, for all you people who could care less. I was previously Walker-Texas-Ranger(the NS user, not Chuck Norris), but for unexplained reasons my accounts keep getting banned... hence the new name.

Why can't (a large amount of) people from the USA just leave gay and bisexual people alone? They aint harming you, they aint trying to take over the country, they aint trying to (and CAN'T anyway) "turn" your kids gay or bisexual (though if you're one of the homophobic parents, for all you know your kids are gay/bisexual and too frightened to tell you), they aint trying to ruin your values (how many gay people have you heard calling for heterosexual marriage to be outlawed?)... in fact they're doing NOTHING to you so WHY do so many people in what's supposed to be a civilised country hate gay people and support state-sanctioned murder?

You're preaching to the choir... oh wait.

Seriously, there are fewer of these problems in metropolitan areas than out in the middle of the country.

As for state-sanctioned murder, please remember that some states bar the death penalty outright. Given that the constitutionality of the death penalty has been called into question in at least one state so far, it may be indicative of a change overall -- we'll see. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=121&scid=11

You're preaching to the choir... oh wait.

Seriously, there are fewer of these problems in metropolitan areas than out in the middle of the country.

As for state-sanctioned murder, please remember that some states bar the death penalty outright. Given that the constitutionality of the death penalty has been called into question in at least one state so far, it may be indicative of a change overall -- we'll see. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=121&scid=11

Aww, but generalization and demonization is so much more effective at whipping people into an anti-American mood.

And you may be right, but you're still a New Yorker. :p

O.K. so I know it's not all Americans, but ffs, there are people in various states wanting to change laws to make gay people feel even more isolated. People have killed themselves because of the hatred they get from other kids, not helped by so-called "professionals" encouraging (either directly, or indirectly by doing nothing about it) such behaviour.

I know Britain has some probs, but it's nowhere near as bad - for example the majority were in support of Civil Partnerships (similar to marriage) for gay people, yet the US population can't even handle that.

And I know there are much worse countries, but bloody hell, the US is SUPPOSED to be a civilised country.

Why can't (a large amount of) people from the USA just leave gay and bisexual people alone? They aint harming you, they aint trying to take over the country, they aint trying to (and CAN'T anyway) "turn" your kids gay or bisexual (though if you're one of the homophobic parents, for all you know your kids are gay/bisexual and too frightened to tell you), they aint trying to ruin your values (how many gay people have you heard calling for heterosexual marriage to be outlawed?)... in fact they're doing NOTHING to you so WHY do so many people in what's supposed to be a civilised country hate gay people and support state-sanctioned murder?

Tell that to these idiots.

I support equal rights for all of humanity. . . Until an individual seriously causes me trouble, in which case I personally remove their right to bodily safety.:p



By the way, for all you people who could care less. I was previously Walker-Texas-Ranger(the NS user, not Chuck Norris), but for unexplained reasons my accounts keep getting banned... hence the new name.

That would be because you need to sign into your nation at least once every 28 days -- not just here on the forum.

Any nations you need/want back that were not deleted for rulebreaking? Ask for them here: The Getting Help Page (http://www.nationstates.net/-1/page=help)

Because gay people cause cancer. Gays give off gaydiation which causes tumors in straight people who are unfortunate enough to spend considerable time in close proximity to gays. It's a matter of survival. *nod*

;)

Ooh, ooh, I spend a lot of time around gay people and I don't have any cancer...

*raises hand and waves it to get Mr. Goofball's attention.*

We still haven't forgiven you for Boston: throwing good tea into the sea is an act of sacrilege.

*nods*

Know what you get when you add leaves to water?
Swamp. ;)

1. Why can't the media make up their minds and
2. 54% aint a large majority

Didn't you know? in THIS country, 51% is a MANDATE!

That would be because you need to sign into your nation at least once every 28 days -- not just here on the forum.

Any nations you need/want back that were not deleted for rulebreaking? Ask for them here: The Getting Help Page (http://www.nationstates.net/-1/page=help)

Ooooooh......

*head to keyboard*

Thanks.

Have I missed something or are people under the mistaken impression that America is the only "advanced" or "civilized" (whatever) country that has tendencies to do stupid things? I certainly hope others aren't going to try and advance that arguement, there are plenty of people in other nations who are just as prejudiced about people who are different then they are. Americans hardly have a monopoly in that.

Reading through this lot I wonder...if you find the British such a difficult lot to get on with I do wish you North americans (Quebec excepted) would stop mangling our language !

Wish all you like.

And here's a bag full of extraneous u's.

Aww, but generalization and demonization is so much more effective at whipping people into an anti-American mood.

And you may be right, but you're still a New Yorker. :p

Wait, so a New Yorker is not an American? ;)

Wait, so a New Yorker is not an American? ;)

I'm from Jersey. So not by my standards :p

Reading through this lot I wonder...if you find the British such a difficult lot to get on with I do wish you North americans (Quebec excepted) would stop mangling our language !
I remember an English prof telling me how American pronuciation(s) of English is far closer to how it was back in the 1700's than the UK version(s) right now.

;)

Why can't we awwwwwllll just get aawwwwwwooooooooong.

Whaaaaaaaaa.

I remember an English prof telling me how American pronuciation(s) of English is far closer to how it was back in the 1700's than the UK version(s) right now.

;)

I've heard this said before, too. I think it's in reference to a Southern drawl, though, rather than the American norm.

As for state-sanctioned murder, please remember that some states bar the death penalty outright.

In fact, my state had complete abolition of the death penalty in 1847, 151 years before the UK.

Of course, our constitutional ban on gay marriage is absolutely disgraceful, but I'm confident that we'll fix it. The wheels of progress may turn slow, but they do turn. Of course, it only turns due to the efforts of those fighting against such idiocy.

I'm from Jersey. So not by my standards :p

Oh Gawd, Joisey.

In fact, my state had complete abolition of the death penalty in 1847, 151 years before the UK.

Of course, our constitutional ban on gay marriage is absolutely disgraceful, but I'm confident that we'll fix it. The wheels of progress may turn slow, but they do turn. Of course, it only turns due to the efforts of those fighting against such idiocy.

That's just the thing: it's NOT a constitutional amendment, at least not in the sense of The Constitution and Bill of Rights. It's never been, and it failed when Georgie boy tried to get it added.

Some states are in the process of changing their laws in order to allow for civil unions, and there are definitely places where same sex marriages have been and are being performed.

Oh Gawd, Joisey.

Yeah, dat's right. Gots a problem wi' dat?

Yeah, dat's right. Gots a problem wi' dat?

You crazy tri-staters.

Oh Gawd, Joisey.



That's just the thing: it's NOT a constitutional amendment, at least not in the sense of The Constitution and Bill of Rights. It's never been, and it failed when Georgie boy tried to get it added.

Some states are in the process of changing their laws in order to allow for civil unions, and there are definitely places where same sex marriages have been and are being performed.

I was talking about the state constitution, not the Federal one.

You crazy tri-staters.

Pfft, Bengali. (Yeah, I went there.)

O.K. so I know it's not all Americans, but ffs, there are people in various states wanting to change laws to make gay people feel even more isolated. People have killed themselves because of the hatred they get from other kids, not helped by so-called "professionals" encouraging (either directly, or indirectly by doing nothing about it) such behaviour.

I know Britain has some probs, but it's nowhere near as bad - for example the majority were in support of Civil Partnerships (similar to marriage) for gay people, yet the US population can't even handle that.

And I know there are much worse countries, but bloody hell, the US is SUPPOSED to be a civilised country.

Why can't (a large amount of) people from the USA just leave gay and bisexual people alone? They aint harming you, they aint trying to take over the country, they aint trying to (and CAN'T anyway) "turn" your kids gay or bisexual (though if you're one of the homophobic parents, for all you know your kids are gay/bisexual and too frightened to tell you), they aint trying to ruin your values (how many gay people have you heard calling for heterosexual marriage to be outlawed?)... in fact they're doing NOTHING to you so WHY do so many people in what's supposed to be a civilised country hate gay people and support state-sanctioned murder?
Just to be sure, what are you referring to as being state-sanctioned murder?

Anyway, I'd be more worried about how it's prominent in a country that's not even supposed to be about religion anyway; it's ironic that gay marriage is banned in a country where the first 10 words of the first amendment of its bill of rights are "congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" whereas it's not banned here in Canada where the Charter of Rights and Freedoms makes references to the "supremacy of god"...

For people to see it as evil when one has to wonder who it even hurts in the first place, I'm guessing the problem is with biblical conformity; people say the bible calls it immoral so it must be immoral, which is frankly ridiculous, the bible shouldn't have as much authority as it does anyway, it's been repeatedly disproved by science, but for some reason it has too much influence. I'm guessing it's because churches brainwash little kids into seeing doubting as coming from the devil...

Yeah, dat's right. Gots a problem wi' dat?

Eh, fuggedaboudit.

I was talking about the state constitution, not the Federal one.

I wasn't sure, which is why I mentioned the "big C" constitution.

Why can't (a large amount of) people from the USA just leave gay and bisexual people alone? They aint harming you, they aint trying to take over the country, they aint trying to (and CAN'T anyway) "turn" your kids gay or bisexual (though if you're one of the homophobic parents, for all you know your kids are gay/bisexual and too frightened to tell you), they aint trying to ruin your values (how many gay people have you heard calling for heterosexual marriage to be outlawed?)... in fact they're doing NOTHING to you so WHY do so many people in what's supposed to be a civilised country hate gay people and support state-sanctioned murder?
Actually, they are harming my species with their unbeneficial mutation. You'd think homosexuality would have ceased to exist already, unless it is a newer mutation, which is unfortunate in today's world where everything is acceptable. Bad mutations will end up being retained by our "humanity" instead of being properly purged (naturally, that is).

Didn't you know? in THIS country, 51% is a MANDATE!

Well, the first thing I want to say is? Mandate my ass!

Because it seems as though we've been convinced that 26% of the registered voters, not even 26% of the American people, but 26% of the registered voters form a mandate, or a landslide. 21% voted for Skippy and 3.4% voted for somebody else who might have been running.

But, oh yeah, I remember. In this year that we have now declared the year from Shogun to Reagan, I remember what I said about Reagan...meant it. Acted like an actor, Hollyweird. Acted like a liberal. Acted like General Franco when he acted like governor of California, then he acted like a republican. Then he acted like somebody was going to vote for him for president. And now we act like 26% of the registered voters is actually a mandate.

We're all actors in this I suppose.

Always need an excuse to post that: Gil Scott Heron - B Movie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc4LvadyXCc)

Live and learn people ;)

I wasn't sure, which is why I mentioned the "big C" constitution.

That's why I used the "small c" constitution. We voted that abomination into the constitution in 2004. There is another initiative being organized for 2008 to attempt to remove the ban, and hopefully it'll either pass or we'll continue to get it on the ballot until it does.

mmm, tea.... BEATS COFFEE! har har har har rule britannia...
actually britain is the most right wing country in europe, so we have a lot of intolerance and crime as a result. We ain't that great, and let ye who is without sin cast the first stone, of course I am guilty of intolerance all the time, so i can't really preach at y'all.

We should all just try get along, americans, british, arabic, chinese, indian... hell, even the FRENCH! ;)

Britain is not the most right wing country in Europe. To even consider Britain right wing demonstrates a superficial political knowledge at best.

In any case, you sir, are a moron. Is there really any need to use "ain't" when typing? It shouldn't be said, let alone typed.

*shrug* Why can't Brits just shut up and drink their tea?

Why can't Americans just shut up? :p [/kidding, not flaming]

O.K. so I know it's not all Americans, but ffs, there are people in various states wanting to change laws to make gay people feel even more isolated. People have killed themselves because of the hatred they get from other kids, not helped by so-called "professionals" encouraging (either directly, or indirectly by doing nothing about it) such behaviour.

I know Britain has some probs, but it's nowhere near as bad - for example the majority were in support of Civil Partnerships (similar to marriage) for gay people, yet the US population can't even handle that.

And I know there are much worse countries, but bloody hell, the US is SUPPOSED to be a civilised country.

Why can't (a large amount of) people from the USA just leave gay and bisexual people alone? They aint harming you, they aint trying to take over the country, they aint trying to (and CAN'T anyway) "turn" your kids gay or bisexual (though if you're one of the homophobic parents, for all you know your kids are gay/bisexual and too frightened to tell you), they aint trying to ruin your values (how many gay people have you heard calling for heterosexual marriage to be outlawed?)... in fact they're doing NOTHING to you so WHY do so many people in what's supposed to be a civilised country hate gay people and support state-sanctioned murder?

Europe has a higher suicide rate than the US.

Who says we're not civilized? Fuck off.

Large amounts of people do not a problem with gay/lesbians who live together in union. Cases where gay/lesbians are alienated or discriminated is pretty rare from what I understand and I live in South East Georgia. Again, go fuck yourself.

O.K. so I know it's not all Americans, but ffs, there are people in various states wanting to change laws to make gay people feel even more isolated. People have killed themselves because of the hatred they get from other kids, not helped by so-called "professionals" encouraging (either directly, or indirectly by doing nothing about it) such behaviour.

I know Britain has some probs, but it's nowhere near as bad - for example the majority were in support of Civil Partnerships (similar to marriage) for gay people, yet the US population can't even handle that.

And I know there are much worse countries, but bloody hell, the US is SUPPOSED to be a civilised country.

Why can't (a large amount of) people from the USA just leave gay and bisexual people alone? They aint harming you, they aint trying to take over the country, they aint trying to (and CAN'T anyway) "turn" your kids gay or bisexual (though if you're one of the homophobic parents, for all you know your kids are gay/bisexual and too frightened to tell you), they aint trying to ruin your values (how many gay people have you heard calling for heterosexual marriage to be outlawed?)... in fact they're doing NOTHING to you so WHY do so many people in what's supposed to be a civilised country hate gay people and support state-sanctioned murder?

Quit bitching.

Its going to end soon, and gays will be able to marry, finally.

Anyways, what states are creating laws to isolate gays? Source? Link? Anything?

You rant with no evidence to support your claims, so why rant?

Quit bitching.

Its going to end soon, and gays will be able to marry, finally.

Anyways, what states are creating laws to isolate gays? Source? Link? Anything?

You rant with no evidence to support your claims, so why rant?

If he had evidence, it wouldn't be a rant.

O.K. so I know it's not all Americans, but ffs, there are people in various states wanting to change laws to make gay people feel even more isolated. People have killed themselves because of the hatred they get from other kids, not helped by so-called "professionals" encouraging (either directly, or indirectly by doing nothing about it) such behaviour.

I know Britain has some probs, but it's nowhere near as bad - for example the majority were in support of Civil Partnerships (similar to marriage) for gay people, yet the US population can't even handle that.

And I know there are much worse countries, but bloody hell, the US is SUPPOSED to be a civilised country.

Why can't (a large amount of) people from the USA just leave gay and bisexual people alone? They aint harming you, they aint trying to take over the country, they aint trying to (and CAN'T anyway) "turn" your kids gay or bisexual (though if you're one of the homophobic parents, for all you know your kids are gay/bisexual and too frightened to tell you), they aint trying to ruin your values (how many gay people have you heard calling for heterosexual marriage to be outlawed?)... in fact they're doing NOTHING to you so WHY do so many people in what's supposed to be a civilised country hate gay people and support state-sanctioned murder?

Say Live and Let Die.

/Paul McCartney reference

Why focus on America? Why not the 56 Muslims countries that wouldn't have a problem killing someone for being gay?

But as for me, if its consenting adults, I really don't give a shit. Now if your 35 and going after a 12 year old I'll have a problem with that. But to me being gay is not really a choice, I like dark hair girls, some guys like guys. I really don't give a shit.

Also by state-sanctioned murder do you mean abortion?

Oh wait, they aren't people yet, sorry I forgot.

Pfft, Bengali. (Yeah, I went there.)

Just think I'm not brown enough? :D

Actually, they are harming my species with their unbeneficial mutation. You'd think homosexuality would have ceased to exist already, unless it is a newer mutation, which is unfortunate in today's world where everything is acceptable. Bad mutations will end up being retained by our "humanity" instead of being properly purged (naturally, that is).
Oh please, PLEASE stick around and keep arguing these claims. Please? I'm begging you.

Dear World (except Uzbekistan, you ****),

We're sorry for inventing Homophobia and Racism. We also apologise for Sexism, a purely American invention. We'll try to create better things in the future. I hear the Cheese industry is creating some nice creamy goodness. Anyway, we're sorry.

Signed, America.

PS: Iceland, we want our lawnmower back.

Heh. It's funny, because if we'd actually listen to those founders, we wouldn't have this huge Christian effort to join Church and State.



Why would Christians want to do that? So the church has to start paying taxes? Think about it.

We still haven't forgiven you for Boston: throwing good tea into the sea is an act of sacrilege.

*nods*


As is taxing good tea :p

On a serious note:
The main reason gays are finding problems in the civil union arena is because those with straight marriages feel that it causes their own marriage to be worth less because if gays were allowed civil union then they would be allowed to file taxes, insurance, etc. as married. Most married feel that they have earned this and gays with a civil union marriage are just a corrupt version of themselves. It has nothing to do with civility, but more to do with fear.:eek:

They are still American Citizens & taxpayers, it should be their choice, even the lord allows us free will to choose.

They can't?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-03-09-gaymarriage-usat_x.htm

I'd like to point out what even this article points out. "The latest findings show a public struggling to find a middle ground on gay marriage." In other words, the only reason
Americans are coming around is because the issue is not going away. They are agreeing to something that's worded differently just so that they can stomach it. If this is meant to show how tolerant we are or how we're show how tolerant we are, I feel it's lacking. Being someone who stands for complete equality in the people of my country, I feel that we could do a lot better.