NationStates Jolt Archive

So today I was talking to some friends from Grad school and one of them stated that we could be gearing up for another war, and he cites the following events that have either already taken place or will take place. Some of his point do sound like a conspiracy theory in the making, but eh whatever.


B-52 flying across America with Nukes
Not one, but two 'badly' made film by Osama Bin Laden, near the 9/11 date.
Two carrier groups, Nimitz and Truman, are joining the Enterprise in the Gulf
country -wide stand-down of the USAF on the 14th of September
EL AL suspends flight service out of NYC on same day.


Of course I asked him for his source, he said he'll have them for me by tomorrow. Which I can't wait because it'll probably be the same source that the makers of "Loose Change" use, and I love tearing those apart. So what do you guys think?

No, if there was going to be a war, we would have had a lot more preparatory work from FoxNews. As far as I heard, it's just been the usual.

And besides, it's not like the military would be particularly keen to wear itself out even faster than it is already.

I highly doubt it.

The military is stretched too thin for a war. And, even if they were, who would be target? The only one we would ever target is Iran, and I think we are going to try and solve that one diplomatically, at first.

Well where I live in the Puget Sound area of Washington State there are a number of indicators of an impending large scale military action. There are supply trains coming into the port from Fort Lewis to be loaded on military and civilian ships heading out of port. Without fail these have happened before the US has engaged in a large operation. As of today the supply ships were still in port and have not seen anything lately. Also I still am in contact with a large number of military men. None of which has mentioned a hint of large scale operations. Just my observations....

We're just not in a position to wage another war. It may suggest additional deployments to Iraq, but our country's military and the civilian population behind them is simply too worn out for another major conflict.

The cure for a small army? Draft. Wasn't there talk about it recently?

Well where I live in the Puget Sound area of Washington State there are a number of indicators of an impending large scale military action. There are supply trains coming into the port from Fort Lewis to be loaded on military and civilian ships heading out of port. Without fail these have happened before the US has engaged in a large operation. As of today the supply ships were still in port and have not seen anything lately. Also I still am in contact with a large number of military men. None of which has mentioned a hint of large scale operations. Just my observations....

The OIF-6 Rotation (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2006/11/mil-061117-dod01.htm) is coming up. I know it's a couple of months away, but it was the only big one I could think of that's coming up, and 4th Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division is scheduled for it.

The cure for a small army? Draft. Wasn't there talk about it recently?

Just talk and that is what it will stay at. Anyone that actually brings it to reality baring a large flare up with China would be strung high.

The cure for a small army? Draft. Wasn't there talk about it recently?

Oh God, if there was a draft...you'd see a backlash against any and all military conflicts that would make the Vietnam-era chaos tame in comparison.

The OIF-6 Rotation (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2006/11/mil-061117-dod01.htm) is coming up. I know it's a couple of months away, but it was the only big one I could think of that's coming up, and 4th Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division is scheduled for it.

I know when the rotations happen. The movements I am speaking of are far larger then a rotation. There are staged supply ships in Commencement Bay that only leave for a conflict. However they did leave once when China had war games over Taiwan during the Clinton era. Which dropped a very good hint at how serious we take a China-Taiwan conflict.

The cure for a small army? Draft. Wasn't there talk about it recently?

Does nobody pay attention when conscription gets slammed every time it comes up?

Since you weren't, here it goes again.

The military doesn't want or need conscripts.
The public won't stand for conscription.
The army is small because of congressional limits, which can be raised to make it larger.

I know when the rotations happen.

;)

The movements I am speaking of are far larger then a rotation.

Aha. Interesting indeed.

While I suspect the events in Wilgrove's OP are mostly connections of coincidental dots, this sounds more plausably a case of a bit of saber ratteling for Iran...

if there was going to be a war, we would have had a lot more preparatory work from FoxNews.

Well considering all Fox News does is repeat the Bush mantras, that's arguably already happening. Every time Bush says Iran is causing all their problems in iraq, Fox picks it up as fact, no corroborating evidence required.

Even if Iran haven't been doing anything in Iraq, they've said it enough times now that if Bush were to declare war tomorrow, there'd hardly be an outburst, other than "the troops are overstretched!". It seems like a pretty obedient and well-prepared public to me.

Not that I'm saying Iran isn't involved with the iraq debacle, but let's face it, Bush saying they are over and over again does not evidence make, and they're not spewing dream-world founded mantras without cause.

No, if there was going to be a war, we would have had a lot more preparatory work from FoxNews. As far as I heard, it's just been the usual.
1) Exactly.
2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-eyuFBrWHs


The army is small because of congressional limits, which can be raised to make it larger.
That and the military barely meets it's quarterly recruiting goals except during high school graduation week.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article2953462.ece

is what I've noticed

all the hints and vibes I've been noticing point to next year like Marrakech its coming from logistics especially since August all I'm saying on the matter (only a hunch)

I don't think anything is going to happen if anything was it would of already done so

Then again...maybe the US

http://tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2007/sep/05/staging_nuke_for_iran

Staging Nuke for Iran?
ljohnson's picture
By Larry Johnson

Why the hubbub over a B-52 taking off from a B-52 base in Minot, North Dakota and subsequently landing at a B-52 base in Barksdale, Louisiana? That’s like getting excited if you see a postal worker in uniform walking out of a post office. And how does someone watching a B-52 land identify the cruise missiles as nukes? It just does not make sense.

So I called a old friend and retired B-52 pilot and asked him. What he told me offers one compelling case of circumstantial evidence. My buddy, let’s call him Jack D. Ripper, reminded me that the only times you put weapons on a plane is when they are on alert or if you are tasked to move the weapons to a specific site.

Then he told me something I had not heard before.

Barksdale Air Force Base is being used as a jumping off point for Middle East operations. Gee, why would we want cruise missile nukes at Barksdale Air Force Base. Can’t imagine we would need to use them in Iraq. Why would we want to preposition nuclear weapons at a base conducting Middle East operations?

His final point was to observe that someone on the inside obviously leaked the info that the planes were carrying nukes. A B-52 landing at Barksdale is a non-event. A B-52 landing with nukes. That is something else.

Now maybe there is an innocent explanation for this? I can’t think of one. What is certain is that the pilots of this plane did not just make a last minute decision to strap on some nukes and take them for a joy ride. We need some tough questions and clear answers. What the hell is going on? Did someone at Barksdale try to indirectly warn the American people that the Bush Administration is staging nukes for Iran? I don’t know, but it is a question worth asking.


Yes its a message board...but meh...who knows...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlasBabylon/message/33441

We Are Going To Hit Iran. Bigtime"
by Maccabee
Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 03:50:24 PM PDT

I have a friend who is an LSO on a carrier attack group that is planning and staging a strike group deployment into the Gulf of Hormuz. (LSO: Landing Signal Officer- she directs carrier aircraft while landing) She told me we are going to attack Iran. She said that all the Air Operation Planning and Asset Tasking are finished. That means that all the targets have been chosen, prioritized, and tasked to specific aircraft, bases, carriers, missile cruisers and so forth.

I asked her why she is telling me this.

Her answer was really amazing.

* Maccabee's diary :: ::
*

She started in the Marines and after 8 years her term was up. She had served on a smaller Marine carrier, and found out through a friend knew there was an opening for a junior grade LSO in a training position on a supercarrier. She used the reference and the information and applied for a transfer to the United States Navy. Since she had experience landing F-18Cs and Cobra Gunships, and an unblemished combat record, she was ratcheted into the job, successfully changing from the Marines to the Navy. Her role is still aligned with the Marines since she generally is assigned to liason with the Marine units deploying off her carrier group.

Like most Marines and former Marines, she is largely apolitical. The fact is, most Marines are trigger pullers and most trigger pullers could care less who the President is. They simply want to be the tip of the sword when it comes to defending the country. She voted once in her life and otherwise was always in some forward post on the water during election season.

Something is wrong with the Navy and the Marines in her view. Always ready to go in harms way, Marines rarely ever question unless it’s a matter of tactics or honor. But something seems awry. Junior and senior officers are starting to grumble, roll their eyes in the hallways. The strain of deployments is beginning to hit every jot and tittle of the Marines and it’s beginning to seep into the daily conversation of Marines and Naval officers in command decision.

"I know this will sound crazy coming from a Naval officer", she said. "But we’re all just waiting for this administration to end. Things that happen at the senior officer level seem more and more to happen outside of the purview of XOs and other officers who typically have a say-so in daily combat and flight operations. Today, orders just come down from the mountaintop and there’s no questioning. In fact, there is no discussing it. I have seen more than one senior commander disappear and then three weeks later we find out that he has been replaced. That’s really weird. It’s also really weird because everyone who has disappeared has questioned whether or not we should be staging a massive attack on Iran."

"We’re not stupid. Most of the members of the fleet read well enough to know what is going on world-wise. We also realize that anyone who has any doubts is in danger of having a long military career yanked out from under them. Keep in mind that most of the people I serve with are happy to be a part of the global war on terror. It’s just that the touch points are what we see since we are the ones out here who are supposedly implementing this grand strategy. But when you liason with administration officials who don’t know that Iranians don’t speak Arabic and have no idea what Iranians live like, then you start having second thoughts about whether these Administration officials are even competent."

I asked her about the attack, how limited and so forth.

"I don’t think it’s limited at all. We are shipping in and assigning every damn Tomahawk we have in inventory. I think this is going to be massive and sudden, like thousands of targets. I believe that no American will know when it happens until after it happens. And whatever the consequences, whatever the consequences, they will have to be lived with. I am sure if my father knew I was telling someone in a news organization that we were about to launch a supposedly secret attack that it would be treason. But something inside me tells me to tell it anyway."

I asked her why she was suddenly so cynical.

"I have become cynical only recently. I also don’t believe anyone will be able to stop this. Bush has become something of an Emperor. He will give the command, and cruise missiles will fly and aircraft will fly and people will die, and yet few of us here are really able to cobble together a great explanation of why this is a good idea. Of course many of us can give you the 4H Club lecture on democracy in the Mid East. But if you asked any of the flight officers whether they have a clear idea of what the goal of this strike is, your answer would sound like something out of a think tank policy paper. But it’s not like Kosovo or when we relieved the tsunami victims. There everyone could tell you in a sentence what we were here doing."

"That’s what’s missing. A real sense of purpose. What’s missing is the answer to what the hell are we doing out here threatening this country with all this power? Last night in the galley, an ensign asked what right do we have to tell a sovereign nation that they can’t build a nuke. I mean the table got EF Hutton quiet. Not so much because the man was asking a question that was off culture. But that he was asking a good question. In fact, the discussion actually followed afterwards topside where someone in our group had to smoke a cigarette. The discussion was intelligent but also in lowered voices. It’s like we aren’t allowed to ask the questions that we always ask before combat. It’s almost as if the average seaman or soldier is doing all the policy work."

She had to hang up. She left by telling me that she believes the attack is a done deal. "It’s only a matter of time before their orders come and they will be sent to station and told to go to Red Alert. She said they were already practicing traps, FARP and FAST." (Trapping is the act of catching the tension wires when landing on the carrier, FARP is Fleet Air Combat Maneuvering Readiness Program- practice dogfighting- and FAST is Fleet Air Superiority Training).

She seemed lost. The first time in my life I have ever heard her sound off rhythm, or unsure of why she is doing something. She knows that there is something rotten in the Naval Command and she, like many of her associates are just hoping that the election brings in someone new, some new situation, or something.

"Yes. We're gong to hit Iran, bigtime. Whatever political discussion that are going in is window dressing and perhaps even a red herring. I see what's going on below deck here in the hangars and weapons bays. And I have a sick feeling about how it's all going to turn out."

Now...it does give pause for thought. Senior ranks pulling of stunts like diverting nukes to the Mid East?

Tinfoil anyone?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/12/world/middleeast/12syria.html?ei=5090&en=dbc569048e2bfd46&ex=1347249600&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print

September 12, 2007
U.S. Confirms Israeli Strikes Hit Syrian Target Last Week
By MARK MAZZETTI and HELENE COOPER

WASHINGTON, Sept. 11 — After days of silence from the Israeli government, American officials confirmed Tuesday that Israeli warplanes launched airstrikes inside Syria last week, the first such attack since 2003.

A Defense Department official said Israeli jets had struck at least one target in northeastern Syria last Thursday, but the official said it was still unclear exactly what the jets hit and the extent of the bombing damage.

Syria has lodged a protest at the United Nations in response to the airstrike, accusing Israel of “flagrant violation” of its airspace. But Israel’s government has repeatedly declined to comment on the matter.

Officials in Washington said that the most likely targets of the raid were weapons caches that Israel’s government believes Iran has been sending the Lebanese militant group Hezbollah through Syria. Iran and Syria are Hezbollah’s primary benefactors, and American intelligence officials say a steady flow of munitions from Iran runs through Syria and into Lebanon.

In the summer of 2006, during fighting between Israeli and Hezbollah forces, the militant group fired hundreds of missiles into Israel, surprising Israel with the extent and sophistication of its arsenal. Israel has tried repeatedly to get the United Nations to prevent the arms shipments across the Syria-Lebanon border.

One Bush administration official said Israel had recently carried out reconnaissance flights over Syria, taking pictures of possible nuclear installations that Israeli officials believed might have been supplied with material from North Korea. The administration official said Israeli officials believed that North Korea might be unloading some of its nuclear material on Syria.

“The Israelis think North Korea is selling to Iran and Syria what little they have left,” the official said. He said it was unclear whether the Israeli strike had produced any evidence that might validate that belief.

The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were discussing a military action by another government.

In a letter circulated to members of the Security Council on Tuesday, Syria’s ambassador to the United Nations, Bashar Jaafari, said Israel dropped munitions though they did not cause any “material damage.”

Syria made its protest via Qatar, the Arab representative on the Security Council, United Nations officials said. Security Council representatives discussed the issue on Tuesday, but did not come to any conclusions.

Neither Israel nor the United States has spoken publicly on the airstrikes. The State Department spokesman, Sean D. McCormack, referred all questions to Israel and Syria, and a spokesman for the Israeli Embassy in Washington declined to comment.

Tensions between Israel and Syria have escalated over the past year, since the end of the Israel-Hezbollah war in Lebanon, and both countries remain in a heightened state of alert along their common border.

Syria’s president, Bashar al-Assad, has said that if Israel is not willing to resume negotiations for the return of the Golan Heights, which Israel captured in the 1967 Arab-Israeli war, the alternative would be to try to regain the territory by force.

Formal peace talks between Israel and Syria broke down in 2000.

Now when are they going to show Col Blimp again?

war makes for good t.v. its sad but its kinda true

Question: what's the pizza delivery activity around the Pentagon like lately? I've heard reporters on various news programs use that to gauge when a war is getting closer; apparently the military types get a hunkering for Dominos when planning an attack.

Question: what's the pizza delivery activity around the Pentagon like lately? I've heard reporters on various news programs use that to gauge when a war is getting closer; apparently the military types get a hunkering for Dominos when planning an attack.

its up 5,000%. But they prefer papa john's. Dominos is for poor people.

its up 5,000%. But they prefer papa john's. Dominos is for poor people.

Who have been infiltrated by the bad guys....pizza's with a little extra zing ;)

Well where I live in the Puget Sound area of Washington State there are a number of indicators of an impending large scale military action. There are supply trains coming into the port from Fort Lewis to be loaded on military and civilian ships heading out of port. Without fail these have happened before the US has engaged in a large operation. As of today the supply ships were still in port and have not seen anything lately. Also I still am in contact with a large number of military men. None of which has mentioned a hint of large scale operations. Just my observations....

Indeed. Yesterday we had military planes flying in an out much more regularly than usual (they line up on a portion of my University, so we get to hear them coming through very close), I would estimate that somewhere between 5 and 10 flew in, yesterday.

Yes its a message board...but meh...who knows...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlasBabylon/message/33441


Maccabee is traditionally full of shit, so take his diary with a sizable grain of salt.

Maccabee is traditionally full of shit, so take his diary with a sizable grain of salt.

Yeah...I was playing to the tinfoil crowd ;)

If this is true, then it scares the crap out of me. Otherwise, conspiracy bullshit.

I smell another Gulf of Tonkin incident style sham coming up...

He's a plausible scenario. I admit it is highly speculative and the evidence is only circumstantial, but its not outside the realm of possibility, and I wouldn't put it past the neo-cons to do this.

So, with this major force gear up and strategic rebalancing happening quietly, and FoxNews drumming up on the "We gotta go get Iran", Bush might create another Gulf of Tonkin incident with Iran in order to justify military intervention. The GOP rallies around its leader in Bush's waning days, and the likely anti-war Democratic party candidate gets outflanked by patriotic jingoism, giving the GOP a fighting chance to perhaps take the presidency in 08.