NationStates Jolt Archive

There are some religion out there that basically states, either join our religion or go to Hell. Christianity being the leader of the pack on that front, and it's a huge lead. Sometimes I wonder what religion people would most likely choose if they didn't have the threat of Hell hanging over their heads. Would the Christians have the numbers that they have if they never mentioned Hell? Or would things be more even across the board? Personally I think that if the threat of Hell wasn't hanging over the head of many people, they would be more likely to explore other religions and realize that they all have the same message, and really there isn't anything 'evil' about religions that are not of your own. What do you guys think?

There are some religion out there that basically states, either join our religion or go to Hell. Christianity being the leader of the pack on that front, and it's a huge lead. Sometimes I wonder what religion people would most likely choose if they didn't have the threat of Hell hanging over their heads. Would the Christians have the numbers that they have if they never mentioned Hell? Or would things be more even across the board? Personally I think that if the threat of Hell wasn't hanging over the head of many people, they would be more likely to explore other religions and realize that they all have the same message, and really there isn't anything 'evil' about religions that are not of your own. What do you guys think?

You're forgetting the other place--Heaven. I think plenty find the idea of eternal bliss alluring.

There are some religion out there that basically states, either join our religion or go to Hell. Christianity being the leader of the pack on that front, and it's a huge lead. Sometimes I wonder what religion people would most likely choose if they didn't have the threat of Hell hanging over their heads. Would the Christians have the numbers that they have if they never mentioned Hell? Or would things be more even across the board? Personally I think that if the threat of Hell wasn't hanging over the head of many people, they would be more likely to explore other religions and realize that they all have the same message, and really there isn't anything 'evil' about religions that are not of your own. What do you guys think?

*shrug* Hinduism has a hell in the sense that there is a plane of existence where demons reside. People don't generally get sent there, no matter how bad they are. So the fire and brimstone thing isn't something I experienced really until near the end of high school.
Still, I can imagine that Christianity's high numbers aren't just about fear mongering and threats.

Edit: And it doesn't have a heaven in the Abrahmic sense either, really. Just a place where the gods live.

There are some religion out there that basically states, either join our religion or go to Hell. Christianity being the leader of the pack on that front, and it's a huge lead. Sometimes I wonder what religion people would most likely choose if they didn't have the threat of Hell hanging over their heads. Would the Christians have the numbers that they have if they never mentioned Hell? Or would things be more even across the board? Personally I think that if the threat of Hell wasn't hanging over the head of many people, they would be more likely to explore other religions and realize that they all have the same message, and really there isn't anything 'evil' about religions that are not of your own. What do you guys think?

I agree.

If a religion says "Join our religion or go to Hell", it's probably not a Christian religion. It's probably a cult.

I think Islam believes that as well. And in a way religions that believe in reincarnation can make you think that you respawn as some worm or something.

The other big advantage to Hell is that you get to imagine bad people going there. In a world that commonly allows it's most evil citizens to die old, rich and happy - it's comforting for many to fantasize about them roasting for eternity.

So the fire and brimstone thing isn't something I experienced really until near the end of high school.

So you're saying you went to hell in high school?

:D

LMAO

ROTFL

The other big advantage to Hell is that you get to imagine bad people going there. In a world that commonly allows it's most evil citizens to die old, rich and happy - it's comforting for many to fantasize about them roasting for eternity.

Dante fan, eh?
And John, of course, from famed "Revelation" :rolleyes:

There are some religion out there that basically states, either join our religion or go to Hell. Christianity being the leader of the pack on that front, and it's a huge lead. Sometimes I wonder what religion people would most likely choose if they didn't have the threat of Hell hanging over their heads. Would the Christians have the numbers that they have if they never mentioned Hell? Or would things be more even across the board? Personally I think that if the threat of Hell wasn't hanging over the head of many people, they would be more likely to explore other religions and realize that they all have the same message, and really there isn't anything 'evil' about religions that are not of your own. What do you guys think?
sorry, but I didn't join Chrisitanity because I feared Hell. Hell never entered the equation.

Hell never entered the equation.

Well, it barely enters it anyway. Talk about making a mountain out of a bull-hill!

Well, it barely enters it anyway. Talk about making a mountain out of a bull-hill!

Just a point that Christians rarely even talk about hell. We prefer Heaven ;)

We all know what we need to do to not go there, so why depress ourselves about it?

Just a point that Christians rarely even talk about hell. We prefer Heaven ;)
Good thing, too.

We all know what we need to do to not go there, so why depress ourselves about it?Well, as each parable is given as example, there's a context for it at some point.

The other big advantage to Hell is that you get to imagine bad people going there. In a world that commonly allows it's most evil citizens to die old, rich and happy - it's comforting for many to fantasize about them roasting for eternity.

http://www.lechatnoirboutique.com/prodimages/Coffee%20Mug%20-%20Far%20Side%20Just%20Not%20Reaching%20That%20Guy.jpg

While "join us or go to Hell" is a motivator for some, I'd rather ask if Christianity would have as many followers if in its history it didn't often teach "join us or die".
Erm, Torquemada much?

While "join us or go to Hell" is a motivator for some, I'd rather ask if Christianity would have as many followers if in its history it didn't often teach "join us or die".

There are some religion out there that basically states, either join our religion or go to Hell. Christianity being the leader of the pack on that front, and it's a huge lead. Sometimes I wonder what religion people would most likely choose if they didn't have the threat of Hell hanging over their heads. Would the Christians have the numbers that they have if they never mentioned Hell? Or would things be more even across the board? Personally I think that if the threat of Hell wasn't hanging over the head of many people, they would be more likely to explore other religions and realize that they all have the same message, and really there isn't anything 'evil' about religions that are not of your own. What do you guys think?

The basic principles of every religion encompass eternity/afterlife and heaven and hell right? Therefore, removing any core foundation -especially of heaven/ hell would make that religion null and void...right?

The basic principles of every religion encompass eternity/afterlife and heaven and hell right? Therefore, removing any core foundation -especially of heaven/ hell would make that religion null and void...right?

Wasn't it "BongHits4Jesus"? :D
Buddhism isn't exactly a "religion" persay, although the numbers qualify it somewhat ... and it has a profoundly different approach to spiritual reward.

Erm, Torquemada much?

Hardly the only example of extremes of the Church. Those poor Cathars... among others...

Hardly the only example of extremes of the Church. Those poor Cathars... among others...

Very infomative book (http://www.amazon.com/Perfect-Heresy-Revolutionary-Medieval-Cathars/dp/0802713505). I recommend it.

Wikipedia has no article! Amazing!

Hardly the only example of extremes of the Church. Those poor Cathars... among others...

I didn't intimate singularity. It's just that Torquemada has such a onomotopaeia-like quality to it.

sorry, but I didn't join Chrisitanity because I feared Hell. Hell never entered the equation.

I used to fear hell a lot, and I know A LOT of people that use it to justify their faith. While I still believe in eternal separation from God, I now focus on getting closer to Him, to know him more intimately, and to share his love, and show his powers to the world.

I now focus on getting closer to Him, to know him more intimately, and to share his love, and show his powers to the world.

That sounds a *lot* like something you said on another thread about sexy posters.

Start with your happy b-day suit, w00t!

That sounds a *lot* like something you said on another thread about sexy posters.

Start with your happy b-day suit, w00t!

I'll save that for private time ;)

Ah. Well the Spanish Inquisition is thrown around alot so I guess we have to come up with other Christian atrocities. Not that hard after all.

It'd be best if you didn't call those people that did such things, Christians, because they by no means portray what Christ taught.

I didn't intimate singularity. It's just that Torquemada has such a onomotopaeia-like quality to it.

Ah. Well the Spanish Inquisition is thrown around alot so I guess we have to come up with other Christian atrocities. Not that hard after all.

Ah. Well the Spanish Inquisition is thrown around alot so I guess we have to come up with other Christian atrocities. Not that hard after all.

They're harder to catch off the cuff, since the rest of them didn't have very many good, catchy sketches done about them.
*whistles innocently*

I'll save that for private time ;)

Don't be so covetous. You saw what shame brought a lot of the OT folks concerning sexuality!

They're harder to catch off the cuff, since the rest of them didn't have very many good, catchy sketches done about them.
*whistles innocently*

Don't even.

Don't even.

Get .... the COMFY CHAIR!

Well, i'm spent. Good times, good times.

Get .... the COMFY CHAIR!

Well, i'm spent. Good times, good times.

*slits hair*

You're forgetting the other place--Heaven. I think plenty find the idea of eternal bliss alluring.

We are more inclined to act out of fear of retribution than to receive some sort of proportional reward.

The basic principles of every religion encompass eternity/afterlife and heaven and hell right? Therefore, removing any core foundation -especially of heaven/ hell would make that religion null and void...right?

Does removing the threat of prison lessen the necessity for law enforcement? Or more appropriately, the necessity for law and order in society?

I do not think fear of Hell to have been all that important in Crhistianity - simply, because many theologists think Hell to be empty. Of course, not everyone thinks about it in the same way: for example, Kierkegaard (my beloved) did not think so, but he too did not need such a form of bogeyman because he was already scared enough at the idea of fail in doing good and for his mental gigantism. Greek religions had not a really clear concept of Hell - Hades was a place in wich dead men went, but they were not sure to receive some form of judgement, although there were exeptions - Sisifus, Thantalus... Divine punishment was usually inflicted in life.
In my opinion, people just need something to qualify as good to follow, not something to qualify as damnation to avoid. It's easier to run forward happiness than run away from eternal pain.

Wilgrove has a bit of a point though...not now, obviously, but back when the Church was first starting and well up into the sixteenth century, the Church commonly used the threat of Hell to keep the populace in line. It was a way of taking advantage of their power over everyone else, basically. The same was true of many other religions with similar power over others.

I think Christianity's prevalence has mainly to do with it being popular in the major colonizing powers.

Judaism has a different incentive for people to obey the laws. If you break the laws:

1. You suck. Let's make that clear. You disobey G-d, you suck.
2. Your life will suck. Some evil people get to live happily ever after, but the majority don't. For every evil guy that died rich, there are a hundred that ended up rotting in prison or dead because of what they did.
3. No Olam Haba (Heaven) for you! But we prefer to focus on 1 and 2.

Wilgrove has a bit of a point though...not now, obviously, but back when the Church was first starting and well up into the sixteenth century, the Church commonly used the threat of Hell to keep the populace in line. It was a way of taking advantage of their power over everyone else, basically. The same was true of many other religions with similar power over others.

That and it was trying to match the local pagan religions to some extent, in order to make conversions easier.

Christian: "You should really join our religion you know"
Pagan: "It sounds nice and all, but if we don't keep making sacrifices to Ba'al we're pretty much fucked. He'd send us to hell"
C: "Oh God will fuck you up if you don't join alright"
P: "Is that so?"
C: "Oh yeah. You know the hell you know about? Well if you don't join us you'll go to one that's like a bazillion times worse"
P: "So where do I sign up?"

The other big advantage to Hell is that you get to imagine bad people going there. In a world that commonly allows it's most evil citizens to die old, rich and happy - it's comforting for many to fantasize about them roasting for eternity.

As I recall, James I used exactly that argument to keep his subjects in line. He "reminded" them that only God can judge a king, but that God judges kings a lot more severely than anyone else. In other words "if you don't like me, there's nothing you can do yourself, but rejoice in the knowledge that I will burn in hell".

Very smart, King James. :D

There are some religion out there that basically states, either join our religion or go to Hell. Christianity being the leader of the pack on that front, and it's a huge lead. Sometimes I wonder what religion people would most likely choose if they didn't have the threat of Hell hanging over their heads. Would the Christians have the numbers that they have if they never mentioned Hell? Or would things be more even across the board? Personally I think that if the threat of Hell wasn't hanging over the head of many people, they would be more likely to explore other religions and realize that they all have the same message, and really there isn't anything 'evil' about religions that are not of your own. What do you guys think?
Fear is an effective motivator, but I think it works better for keeping believers in line rather than for recruiting new believers. You draw in more flies with honey, and all that, so I think Heaven is the lure you'd want to set if you were out for new recruits. Hell and God's Wrath are how you keep folks in line once they believe.

The real key is convincing people that they don't deserve anything good, ever. You have to convince them that God is justifiably angry with them. You have to convince them that they deserve to suffer horribly, and that God is granting them some special gift if He permits them to enter Heaven.

Guilt is fucking effective, too. Find people's sore spots, the places where they worry about their own value, the places they have regrets, the places where they wonder if they're worthy, and then lean on those. If you want them to really fear Hell, make them believe that they deserve Hell. Make it a very realistic possibility. Play up all their insecurities and fears about their own value.

Then, when you mention that God might just be nice enough to save them from the horrible fate they deserve, you have created a situation where they really believe they have only one way out. They have to kiss God's ass (and yours, being God's voice, of course) to ensure that He'll rescue them from themselves. You've removed from them the option of saving themselves.

It's a great racket, really.

Threat of Hell.... or promise of Heaven?

Judaism has a different incentive for people to obey the laws. If you break the laws:

1. You suck. Let's make that clear. You disobey G-d, you suck.
2. Your life will suck. Some evil people get to live happily ever after, but the majority don't. For every evil guy that died rich, there are a hundred that ended up rotting in prison or dead because of what they did.
3. No Olam Haba (Heaven) for you! But we prefer to focus on 1 and 2.

Well, 1 and 2 are only focused on over 3, because if you ask three different Rabbis what Heaven and Hell in Judaism are, you're likely to get three entirely different answers.

You have no idea how hard it was to convince a couple of those doorknockers that hell didn't impress me.

Are you saved?
I'm an atheist.
Aren't you afraid you'll go to hell?
:confused:?????

You have no idea how hard it was to convince a couple of those doorknockers that hell didn't impress me.

Are you saved?
I'm an atheist.
Aren't you afraid you'll go to hell?
:confused:?????

yur i do they just don't get it do they

I think Islam believes that as well. And in a way religions that believe in reincarnation can make you think that you respawn as some worm or something.

I think what differs is the entry requirements for hell and what actually hell is.

These days, apart from the whacky and weird fringes of society, most of the time, hell is referred to as an eternal state of being absent from Gods light - equivalent of being in a state of solitary confinement.

You have no idea how hard it was to convince a couple of those doorknockers that hell didn't impress me.

Are you saved?
I'm an atheist.
Aren't you afraid you'll go to hell?
:confused:?????

how about...

"Are you Saved?"
"Yep"
"How do you know?"
"Well, God sent you didn't he? so He has Interest in me. so if He has Interest in me, I must be in his bank account... so I'm Saved."

how about...

"Are you Saved?"
"Yep"
"How do you know?"
"Well, God sent you didn't he? so He has Interest in me. so if He has Interest in me, I must be in his bank account... so I'm Saved."My brother's reply in exactly the same situation.

Them: Are you saved?
Brother: I'm an atheist.
Them: Aren't you afraid you'll go to hell?
Brother: I'm an atheist, I don't believe in hell.
Them: You can't be sure. You could still be wrong. Aren't you afraid you're wrong and could go to hell?
Brother: *heavy sigh*
Let me tell you about this little tribe in South America. They believe if you don't light a fire in front of your hut every night before you go to bed, the Ooga Booga man will come and get you. Do you light a fire in front of your door every night?
Them: No, of course not.
Brother: Aren't you afraid the Ooga Booga man will come and get you?

Another time he told them that he'd be glad to attend church services with them on Sunday. Since they were so nice to him he'd like to invite them to his black mass. There'd be refreshments and a virgin sacrifice.

My brother's reply in exactly the same situation.

Them: Are you saved?
Brother: I'm an atheist.
Them: Aren't you afraid you'll go to hell?
Brother: I'm an atheist, I don't believe in hell.
Them: You can't be sure. You could still be wrong. Aren't you afraid you're wrong and could go to hell?
Brother: *heavy sigh*
Let me tell you about this little tribe in South America. They believe if you don't light a fire in front of your hut every night before you go to bed, the Ooga Booga man will come and get you. Do you light a fire in front of your door every night?
Them: No, of course not.
Brother: Aren't you afraid the Ooga Booga man will come and get you?

Another time he told them that he'd be glad to attend church services with them on Sunday. Since they were so nice to him he'd like to invite them to his black mass. There'd be refreshments and a virgin sacrifice.


LOL! He should've ended that comment about a Virgin Sacrifice with... "No worries, It's completely safe... (mutters) unless you're a Virgin and our Sacrifice escapes... "

My brother's reply in exactly the same situation.

Them: Are you saved?
Brother: I'm an atheist.
Them: Aren't you afraid you'll go to hell?
Brother: I'm an atheist, I don't believe in hell.
Them: You can't be sure. You could still be wrong. Aren't you afraid you're wrong and could go to hell?
Brother: *heavy sigh*
Let me tell you about this little tribe in South America. They believe if you don't light a fire in front of your hut every night before you go to bed, the Ooga Booga man will come and get you. Do you light a fire in front of your door every night?
Them: No, of course not.
Brother: Aren't you afraid the Ooga Booga man will come and get you?

Another time he told them that he'd be glad to attend church services with them on Sunday. Since they were so nice to him he'd like to invite them to his black mass. There'd be refreshments and a virgin sacrifice.

LOL! He should've ended that comment about a Virgin Sacrifice with... "No worries, It's completely safe... (mutters) unless you're a Virgin and our Sacrifice escapes... "

LOL

LOL! He should've ended that comment about a Virgin Sacrifice with... "No worries, It's completely safe... (mutters) unless you're a Virgin and our Sacrifice escapes... "He did mention that he'd only thought about asking if they were virgins after they left.

While "join us or go to Hell" is a motivator for some, I'd rather ask if Christianity would have as many followers if in its history it didn't often teach "join us or die".
I think this has a lot more to do with it than anything else. As has been pointed out, if you don't believe there's a hell, the threat of it is not going to move you to do anything. But you don't have to believe in something supernatural when someone with lots of weapons, money, and the authority to use them is holding a knife to your throat and asking if you wouldn't very much rather join their church than be burned at the stake and have all your property taken away and your family left destitute and outcast.

It wasn't the threat of hell tomorrow but the threat of death today that made both Christianity and Islam such big international franchises.

As for people nowadays who cite a fear of hell as their reason for taking up a religion, it must be obvious that they believed in hell before they joined up, or at least that they were burdened with a fear of an afterlife, and a religious recruiter was able to put the "hell" label on their fears and sell their church as the cure for it.

He did mention that he'd only thought about asking if they were virgins after they left.

best lines all ways came to you when the deal is over :(

In truth, the idea that a heaven/hell dichotomy should be the reason for religious belief scares me. It suggests that those who believe it haven't grown beyond the carrot/stick mentality - a mentality you expect to see in children, but not in mature adults.

As an analogy:

Suppose there is an elderly woman about to cross the street with heavy bags and she looks like she needs help. Someone comes walking up to a bystander and says, "Help that lady and I'll give you a million dollars," so the bystander helps her. In the same situation, the "someone" says, "Help that lady or I'll beat you with a baseball bat," and the bystander helps her. Now suppose it is the same situation and that someone just says, "Wouldn't it be nice if you helped that lady out? She looks like she's having trouble carrying all of that." and the bystander does so.

Which bystander has actually acted in a more moral and "good" manner?


The idea of heaven and hell may factor into a religion, but they should not be the focus. Far from it. If one is going to follow religious principles, it should be because one has been convinced that they are right - that they are good, not because one is afraid of punishment or drooling over a reward.

In truth, the idea that a heaven/hell dichotomy should be the reason for religious belief scares me. It suggests that those who believe it haven't grown beyond the carrot/stick mentality - a mentality you expect to see in children, but not in mature adults.

As an analogy:

Suppose there is an elderly woman about to cross the street with heavy bags and she looks like she needs help. Someone comes walking up to a bystander and says, "Help that lady and I'll give you a million dollars," so the bystander helps her. In the same situation, the "someone" says, "Help that lady or I'll beat you with a baseball bat," and the bystander helps her. Now suppose it is the same situation and that someone just says, "Wouldn't it be nice if you helped that lady out? She looks like she's having trouble carrying all of that." and the bystander does so.

Which bystander has actually acted in a more moral and "good" manner?


The idea of heaven and hell may factor into a religion, but they should not be the focus. Far from it. If one is going to follow religious principles, it should be because one has been convinced that they are right - that they are good, not because one is afraid of punishment or drooling over a reward.
I couldn't agree more.

The heaven/hell reward/punishment system seems an incredibly negative and shallow way of doing things. And I cannot tell you how often I see historical and modern examples of people going to horrific extremes to demonstrate their loyalty to their god because they fear losing his favor and being condemned to hell, and conversely, people going to horrific extremes and expecting, even demanding, the reward of heaven for it, as if god owes them for services rendered.

I keep getting reminded of something a poster here once said to me in explaining why he was bigoted against other religions and wanted Christian doctrine imposed as law in the US: that if it were not all literally true, if there were no real heaven and real hell, if there was not going to be an End of Days when Jesus would return, raise the dead and destroy unbelievers, then, in his opinion, Christianity would be a false religion and Christians, including himself, would be the most deluded people in the world. He was willing to destroy my life to keep that fear of his at bay, rather than sit down and think it through for himself.

"I have gained this from philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only through fear of the law."


Sums it up for me.

Well, 1 and 2 are only focused on over 3, because if you ask three different Rabbis what Heaven and Hell in Judaism are, you're likely to get three entirely different answers.

Actually, you'll get seven answers, but that's not the point.

The point is that Judaism focused much more on this world. In general, the more moral a life you lead, the better your life is. This is not the only factor, of course - I'm not saying that poor people are evil and rich people are good - but it can have an impact.

Now, some of you might say, "Well, I don't follow the Torah, but my life's pretty good!" Well, first of all, as non-Jews, you're only obligated in the seven Noachide laws. Second, you probably follow a few of them, especially the ones on stealing and murder.

There are some religion out there that basically states, either join our religion or go to Hell. Christianity being the leader of the pack on that front, and it's a huge lead. Sometimes I wonder what religion people would most likely choose if they didn't have the threat of Hell hanging over their heads. Would the Christians have the numbers that they have if they never mentioned Hell? Or would things be more even across the board? Personally I think that if the threat of Hell wasn't hanging over the head of many people, they would be more likely to explore other religions and realize that they all have the same message, and really there isn't anything 'evil' about religions that are not of your own. What do you guys think?

I disagree, because if you don't believe in hell in the first place, you won't be converted from a fear of a place you believe to be non existent.

Ah. Well the Spanish Inquisition is thrown around alot so I guess we have to come up with other Christian atrocities. Not that hard after all.

The Spanish Inquisition is not the best example anyway. Most of the history we learn about the Spanish from the fourteenth through sixteenth century comes from English historians, who had a bone to pick with Spain (another example is the Spanish Armada, where Spain actually only lost three ships to England).

Actually, you'll get seven answers, but that's not the point.

The point is that Judaism focused much more on this world. In general, the more moral a life you lead, the better your life is. This is not the only factor, of course - I'm not saying that poor people are evil and rich people are good - but it can have an impact.


Well, that's kind of open to interpretation. For example, the story of Job is supposed to emphasize the idea that, even if you do lead a moral life, sometimes shit just happens and it sucks but the reward for a moral life is in the fact that it's a moral life. That, and I guess, being resurrected when Meshiach comes...though even that isn't necessarily interpreted by all Jews to be directly linked to how good of a Jew you were.

But, yea, I agree with your point. Judaism never really talks much about metaphysics. Unless you're talking about the Kabbalah, in which case you're really only referring to a small portion of the Jewish community, namely Chasidic Jews and jackasses in Hollywood (though it does offer some opportunities for a few cool looking tattoos, imo).

I disagree, because if you don't believe in hell in the first place, you won't be converted from a fear of a place you believe to be non existent.

This is good point. If you believe in hell, you probably believe in the rest of the religion, anyway, and only see hell as an incentive to do good.

The Spanish Inquisition is not the best example anyway. Most of the history we learn about the Spanish from the fourteenth through sixteenth century comes from English historians, who had a bone to pick with Spain (another example is the Spanish Armada, where Spain actually only lost three ships to England).

Well it is the most well known despite this whatever the reasons for its prominence may be. For myself I would rather be general, simply mention the countless "witches" and "heretics" who were murdered by the Church over the centuries. People should learn not to focus on one relatively isolated criminal act by Christianity. Pick some other dispicable acts they've committed people!

Wasn't it "BongHits4Jesus"? :D
Buddhism isn't exactly a "religion" persay, although the numbers qualify it somewhat ... and it has a profoundly different approach to spiritual reward.

I really haven't researched every "religion" so I wasn't quite sure:)

Does removing the threat of prison lessen the necessity for law enforcement? Or more appropriately, the necessity for law and order in society?

I think so. How is Law and Order supposed to function if there is no penalty for wrong doings? Prison or other wise.

I really haven't researched every "religion" so I wasn't quite sure:)

Depending on how much patience you have, and fancy for fantasy, really, they're all worth a modest perusal.

He was willing to destroy my life to keep that fear of his at bay, rather than sit down and think it through for himself.

Hopefully they are incapacitated by their fear, and will burn with their delusional bullshit all alone, into death ... in the case they don't grow/wake up.

Threat of Hell.... or promise of Heaven?

You can't have one without the other really. Heaven would be meaningless without the threat of a hell. The two delusions depend on one another.

My brother's reply in exactly the same situation.

Them: Are you saved?
Brother: I'm an atheist.
Them: Aren't you afraid you'll go to hell?
Brother: I'm an atheist, I don't believe in hell.
Them: You can't be sure. You could still be wrong. Aren't you afraid you're wrong and could go to hell?
Brother: *heavy sigh*
Let me tell you about this little tribe in South America. They believe if you don't light a fire in front of your hut every night before you go to bed, the Ooga Booga man will come and get you. Do you light a fire in front of your door every night?
Them: No, of course not.
Brother: Aren't you afraid the Ooga Booga man will come and get you?

Another time he told them that he'd be glad to attend church services with them on Sunday. Since they were so nice to him he'd like to invite them to his black mass. There'd be refreshments and a virgin sacrifice.

You could always use the defence from Judaism; you're a gentile, you abide by the Noahide laws. Most people by default already follow them anyway.

I think so. How is Law and Order supposed to function if there is no penalty for wrong doings? Prison or other wise.

Exactly. It removes the functionality of the system, but not the necessity for order itself.