NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6985808.stm

Israeli police say they have broken up a gang of neo-Nazis who are accused of carrying out attacks on foreigners, gay people and religious Jews.
The eight suspects, aged 16-21, are all Israeli citizens from the former Soviet Union. They were arrested a month ago, but the news only emerged on Saturday.

Police say searches of their homes yielded Nazi uniforms, portraits of Adolf Hitler, knives, guns and TNT.

Israel was founded in the wake of the Nazi Holocaust in which millions died.

The arrests follow a year-long inquiry which began after a synagogue in Petah Tikva, a city east of Tel Aviv, was desecrated with graffiti of Nazi swastikas and the name of Nazi leader Adolf Hitler.

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert expressed his horror at what he called "violence for the sake of violence."

"I am sure that there is not a person in Israel who can remain indifferent to these scenes, which indicate that we too as a society have failed in the education of these youths," he said.

Is it just me that finds this totally mind boggling? Is this an indication of how little history people know nowadays?

Soviet Neo-Nazis who weren't afraid to go apeshit in the heart of the Jewish Homeland. Have to admit, either they've got basketball-sized testicles or they're smoking some supergrade PCP. Maybe both.

And these guys have to have Jewish grandparents at least. To be able to be that and a neo-nazi is terrifyingly stupid, even if being a neo-nazi is terrifyingly stupid anyway.

Thats just *asking* for an asskicking.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6985808.stm



Is it just me that finds this totally mind boggling? Is this an indication of how little history people know nowadays?

It is indeed mindboggling but then we all know that no one teaches history anymore.

Human stupidity:
Because the bottom of the barrel just isn't low enough

While this is retarded, I think we can all agree that neo-nazism is not generally a normal problem with Israeli citizens. However, Neo-Nazism is a HUGE problem in Russia, which was basically destroyed by Nazism. I think the biggest neo-nazi population exists in Russia.

Soviet Neo-Nazis who weren't afraid to go apeshit in the heart of the Jewish Homeland. Have to admit, either they've got basketball-sized testicles or they're smoking some supergrade PCP. Maybe both.

Aye.

Some serious drugs needed to pull that shit off.

I think the biggest neo-nazi population exists in Russia.
I've heard the same, but I can't remember where.

I've heard the same, but I can't remember where.
Enjoy, or rather...cringe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-national_sentiment_in_Russia

with some of the things apearing in the news recently its realy difficult to feel sympathy for israelis, afterall it was a israeli that literely blew away the only chance that they had of getting peace with the palestinians.

with some of the things apearing in the news recently its realy difficult to feel sympathy for israelis, afterall it was a israeli that literely blew away the only chance that they had of getting peace with the palestinians.
Oh yes, Krapickstan. This (whatever unknown-undocumented occurance you're talking about) is the thing that blew away the chance for peace in the middle east. Not half a century of ethnic war or that problem with religious coexistion, no THIS is the thing to blow away the chance for peace in the middle east. Do you hear yoursel? I might kill you tonight.:rolleyes:

I know neo-Nazis aren't noted for their intelligence but this is ridiculous. If Israel had the death penalty I think these people would be in the running for a Darwin award.

The oslo peace agreement was one of the few opurtunitys they had to reach a solution, but the prime minister of israel Yitzhak Rabin was assasinated before the agreement could be completed by an islamic extremist. I am aware that the conflict goes back thousands of years but it doesnt mean that peace was impossible. Before the mass influx of jews during the 1900s and there clear goal of retaking palestine for themselves cristians arabs and jews liuved in peace.
Also this idea that religiouse groups cannot co-exist in the middle east is a very western view on the issue variouse middleeastern countries had there elected governments torn apart by the CIA whom then placed dictators in power to work to there agenda and then complain when these people bite back. A great example of how westerners screwd up a nation look at afgahnistan.

sorry for the rant but its a subject i have quite strong feelings on.

I know neo-Nazis aren't noted for their intelligence but this is ridiculous. If Israel had the death penalty I think these people would be in the running for a Darwin award.

The Israeli Death Penalty is for those who assisted with the Holocaust.

:cool:
:D
israeli men are boring enough to be a nazi

do they konow their histories?????

I know neo-Nazis aren't noted for their intelligence but this is ridiculous. If Israel had the death penalty I think these people would be in the running for a Darwin award.

Actually, Israel does have the death penalty. However, they've only used it once, on Eichmann (the architect of the Final Solution).

These guys are pretty stupid. Neo-Nazi attacks in ISRAEL? What were they smoking?

Correcting Krapickstan: Rabin was shot by a Jewish extremist, not an Islamic one. You probably meant to say Israeli.

The Israeli Death Penalty is for those who assisted with the Holocaust.

Actually, Israel does have the death penalty. However, they've only used it once, on Eichmann (the architect of the Final Solution).

I stand corrected.

Irony is fun.

These guys are definitely in the running for my Award for Outstanding Achievement in Stupidity.

Here is the reason that these morons exist in Israel:

The suspects all migrated to Israel under the Law of Return which allows anyone with at least one Jewish grandparent to become a citizen.

Ms Almog said of the accused, "their connection to Judaism is distant, through grandparents or distant family connections".
These neo-nazis arn't Jewish, but because of Israel's stupid policy, they are allowed to leave Russia and move to Israel because they have a Jewish relative or Jewish grandparent or something stupid like that.
Now as you here at NS know, I'm quite a big supporter/backer of Israel....but...
Israel, WAKE UP! Having a relative or grandparent who beleives in the Jewish God and religion does not make you Jewish. Maybe if you had a real policy that makes actual sense you wouldn't have idiots like this moving in from butt-fucking Russia!:rolleyes:

Oh yes, Krapickstan. This (whatever unknown-undocumented occurance you're talking about) is the thing that blew away the chance for peace in the middle east. Not half a century of ethnic war or that problem with religious coexistion, no THIS is the thing to blow away the chance for peace in the middle east. Do you hear yoursel? I might kill you tonight.:rolleyes:

He was referring to the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin by Yigal Amir when it became clear that Rabin was willing to give up some territories to move the Middle East Peace Plan ahead.

The Israeli Death Penalty is for those who assisted with the Holocaust.
How about for those who use it as an excuse to occupy and oppress other countries, is that a crime?

How about for those who use it as an excuse to occupy and oppress other countries, is that a crime?

Which countries are you refering to? As far as I know, no state is actually being occupied except perhaps the Golan Heights which does belong to Syria but other than that, what countries are being occupied?

Which countries are you refering to? As far as I know, no state is actually being occupied except perhaps the Golan Heights which does belong to Syria but other than that, what countries are being occupied?

Palestine.

How about for those who use it as an excuse to occupy and oppress other countries, is that a crime?

How bout the soviet Union occupying foreign countries for its entire existence? is that a crime?

Palestine.

Well if it was a true occupation, the Israelis would have just got rid of that anti-jewish anti-israeli government in the first place.

Waiting for a reply Ap.

How bout the soviet Union occupying foreign countries for its entire existence? is that a crime?
Maybe, but then again this is an Israel discussion so your changing the topic to avoid the point, aren't you...

Well if it was a true occupation, the Israelis would have just got rid of that anti-jewish anti-israeli government in the first place.
Well they have to do it subtly of course, because they depend on US arms to survive.

Maybe, but then again this is an Israel discussion so your changing the topic to avoid the point, aren't you...
No I answered, I just felt like pointing out the hypocrisy of you supporting anti-intelluctual totalitarian governments and calling Israel evil.
Well if it was a true occupation, the Israelis would have just got rid of that anti-jewish anti-israeli government in the first place.

Palestine.

Sorry but that would be an incorrect answer as Palestine is not and has never been a country.

Well they have to do it subtly of course, because they depend on US arms to survive.

There really is no such thing as a subtle occupation.

According to Israel's unilateral disengagement plan of 2004, it withdrew all settlers and most of the military presence from the Gaza strip, but maintained control of the air space and coast. Israel also dismantled four settlements in northern West Bank in September 2005. Following Israel's withdrawal, some Palestinian groups failed to abide by a 'calming' (de facto ceasefire) negotiated with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas. Palestinian militia groups fired Qassam rockets into Israel and attempted to smuggle additional weapons and ammunition into Gaza from Egypt. After 2 Israeli soldiers were killed and one was kidnapped by Palestinian militants in the 6th of June 2006, Israel launched a military operation and reentered to some parts of the Gaza Strip.
I assume this is what your talking about. Thats a fairly natural move for someone to make and to call it a full on occupation is absurd.

According to Israel's unilateral disengagement plan of 2004, it withdrew all settlers and most of the military presence from the Gaza strip, but maintained control of the air space and coast. Israel also dismantled four settlements in northern West Bank in September 2005. Following Israel's withdrawal, some Palestinian groups failed to abide by a 'calming' (de facto ceasefire) negotiated with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas. Palestinian militia groups fired Qassam rockets into Israel and attempted to smuggle additional weapons and ammunition into Gaza from Egypt. After 2 Israeli soldiers were killed and one was kidnapped by Palestinian militants in the 6th of June 2006, Israel launched a military operation and reentered to some parts of the Gaza Strip.
I assume this is what your talking about. Thats a fairly natural move for someone to make and to call it a full on occupation is absurd.
The colonies should never have been built in the first place, there was no use for them other than to infuriate the Palestinians and placate the messianic colonist nuts.

The colonies should never have been built in the first place, there was no use for them other than to infuriate the Palestinians and placate the messianic colonist nuts.

And I'm sure that makes it alright that when the colonies are dismantled for exremists to take over to smuggle in weapons to kill Israelis. You got a strange sense of right and wrong I gotta say.

The colonies should never have been built in the first place, there was no use for them other than to infuriate the Palestinians and placate the messianic colonist nuts.

Colonies? well this is where the people came from that kidnapped their soldiers and the Palestininean government has proven that its not doing shit to stop these guys.

Come on AP. Tell me what countries are being oppressed!

In the most basic sense, I don't disagree with AP - although I fully support Israel I do not believe in its creation - however, what's done is done.

Its immigration policy also has something to be desired, not because of the Jewish heritage, although I do have issues with that, but because a constant stream of new settlers is heightening the problem.

Well they have to do it subtly of course, because they depend on US arms to survive.

I completely blew that argument of yours away in the Christian Zealot thread. You've appeared there to make one post, but you have refused to try to make a counter-argument to what Yootopia and I said when we ripped your anti-Semitic shit apart.

You're of course a coward and afraid of real debate. You throw bombs in almost every thread about Russia and then disappear when people challenge you only to repeat the process in another thread. You're truly pathetic.

The colonies should never have been built in the first place, there was no use for them other than to infuriate the Palestinians and placate the messianic colonist nuts.

The Israelis weren't in the Gaza Strip when they were captured. There are and were ZERO settlements in Gaza when the incursion happened. Of course facts never stop a fool like yourself.

Sorry but that would be an incorrect answer as Palestine is not and has never been a country.

True. When Israel occupied Gaza, they were really occupying Egypt and Israel occupying the West Bank is actually occupying Jordan, but Jordan doesn't want the West Bank back no matter what. The Jordanians really hate the Palestinians.

Well they have to do it subtly of course, because they depend on US arms to survive.

You should get your facts straight. Originally, they relied on European, and even *gasps* German weapons. Then, they moved on to British and French weapons, and even some USSR weapons. Finally, they moved on to U.S. weapons. But now, believe or not, they produce a lot themselves. They still buy from Europe and U.S. but they don't rely on us.

In fact, some of the newest technology being used against terrorists is Israeli made.

You know, cause Israel is so wrong defending itself when people blow themselves up inside of it.

I did hear they were buying our bunker-busters faster than we could make them/ ship them in 2006, but other than that they really don't need us.

Today Israel only seems to be importing ships and aircraft. It's easy to see why they do so. It's the classic guns vs. butter economic decision. Israel has decided that they can allocate more to butter and less to guns if they decide to pay cash for arms instead of producing ships and aircraft on their own and using a lot of industrial capital.

Israel still does produce Merkavas, small arms, and most of the electronic equipment in their imported F-16s.

US aid to Israel is less than 1% of total Israeli GDP. Israel can easily survive without US aid. Most weapons sent to Israel are ones purchased by Israel or bought on a loan which Israel has to eventually pay back.

IDF, flaming here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13042621&postcount=40) and here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13042623&postcount=41), take a day off to calm down.

String Cheese Incident, give other players a chance to get a word in edgewise. Posting every two minutes doesn't make people reply any faster.

Everyone, we all know this is a hot-button topic. If you can't discuss it without attacking players, rather than their arguments, then don't discuss it.

Colonies? well this is where the people came from that kidnapped their soldiers and the Palestininean government has proven that its not doing shit to stop these guys.

Seeing as Arab East Jerusalem and the West Bank are still occupied I fail to see why the Palestinians should collaborate in repressing their own resistance.


The Jordanians really hate the Palestinians..

As Palestinian refugees now make them a minority in their own country, your claim - if true - would not be suprising.

IDF, flaming here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13042621&postcount=40) and here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13042623&postcount=41), take a day off to calm down.

String Cheese Incident, give other players a chance to get a word in edgewise. Posting every two minutes doesn't make people reply any faster.

Everyone, we all know this is a hot-button topic. If you can't discuss it without attacking players, rather than their arguments, then don't discuss it.

I do not consider IDF's posts to be flames at all, especially the 2nd post.

Sorry, Corneliu, but I do.

This: You're of course a coward and afraid of real debate. You throw bombs in almost every thread about Russia and then disappear when people challenge you only to repeat the process in another thread. You're truly pathetic.

coupled with this Of course facts never stop a fool like yourself.

add up to abuse of another player. The second is milder and by itself might not have drawn any more than a comment, but in context, in this thread, it did.

However, if you feel it's unjust, start a thread in Moderation and the other mods will review it. Not here, though, please.

Sorry, Corneliu, but I do.

This:

coupled with this

add up to abuse of another player. The second is milder and by itself might not have drawn any more than a comment, but in context, in this thread, it did.

However, if you feel it's unjust, start a thread in Moderation and the other mods will review it. Not here, though, please.

Ok just voicing displeasure that's all.

While this is retarded, I think we can all agree that neo-nazism is not generally a normal problem with Israeli citizens. However, Neo-Nazism is a HUGE problem in Russia, which was basically destroyed by Nazism. I think the biggest neo-nazi population exists in Russia.
It's a big problem over Russia, Poland and indeed most of Eastern Europe. Which isn't that surprising, considering all of the Pogroms and all of that, which isn't that long ago in history.

Well they have to do it subtly of course, because they depend on US arms to survive.
Jesus Timmy-molesting Christ, AP. We totally took that argument to bits in the whole Christian Zealot thread. Come on, you too should know that Israel isn't propped up on US aid, but rather on long-term loans, which it's done a fairly good job of paying.

No I answered, I just felt like pointing out the hypocrisy of you supporting anti-intelluctual totalitarian governments and calling Israel evil.

You're wasting your time: Andaras could have written the textbook on double-think and he's quite capable of holding two completely contradictory ideas in his head at the same time and believing both of them.

For example, he can simultaneously scream that Israel's response to Hezbollah's attacks on millitary personnel and civilians was utterly disproportionate, while insisting that if Israel attacks even one Iranian nuclear research lab then Iran could legitimately "level Tel Aviv" (his words). He's quite entertaining.

You're wasting your time: Andaras could have written the textbook on double-think and he's quite capable of holding two completely contradictory ideas in his head at the same time and believing both of them.

For example, he can simultaneously scream that Israel's response to Hezbollah's attacks on millitary personnel and civilians was utterly disproportionate, while insisting that if Israel attacks even one Iranian nuclear research lab then Iran could legitimately "level Tel Aviv" (his words). He's quite entertaining.

I could not agree more.

String Cheese Incident, give other players a chance to get a word in edgewise. Posting every two minutes doesn't make people reply any faster.



Sorry I'm not my attention span is very....;););););) I like smileys.

It's a big problem over Russia, Poland and indeed most of Eastern Europe. Which isn't that surprising, considering all of the Pogroms and all of that, which isn't that long ago in history.
Agreed, but it's a larger problem in Russia than it is in all of Eastern Europe combined. Have you seen some of the shit going on over there? It's a dark dark country over in Russia. To be frank, it scares the shit out of me.

You're wasting your time: Andaras could have written the textbook on double-think and he's quite capable of holding two completely contradictory ideas in his head at the same time and believing both of them.

For example, he can simultaneously scream that Israel's response to Hezbollah's attacks on millitary personnel and civilians was utterly disproportionate, while insisting that if Israel attacks even one Iranian nuclear research lab then Iran could legitimately "level Tel Aviv" (his words). He's quite entertaining.

Don't mean to be the "boy who cried troll" or anything but his style seems very much like that of one.

Don't mean to be the "boy who cried troll" or anything but his style seems very much like that of one.

This is NSG. We cultivate trolls like pets, grooming the more promising ones to be more effective at what they do: entertain us.

This is NSG. We cultivate trolls like pets, grooming the more promising ones to be more effective at what they do: entertain us.

And on occasion, we pit two or more against each other in a brutal Pokemon-style cockfight.

This is NSG. We cultivate trolls like pets, grooming the more promising ones to be more effective at what they do: entertain us.

Indeed, I like AP for some reason, he does make some genuinely humorous points when he wants to - I find him better than UB for example in terms of hammering away at a single point.

Israel should sentence these youths to death by Zyklon-B gassing. They were of Jewish background, they must have had at least Jewish grandparents to get into Israel, and that's all it took once Hitler had Auschwitz up and running.

Israel should sentence these youths to death by Zyklon-B gassing. They were of Jewish background, they must have had at least Jewish grandparents to get into Israel, and that's all it took once Hitler had Auschwitz up and running.

Yay! That would so help their international image!

You must be a UN diplomat!

Yay! That would so help their international image!

You must be a UN diplomat!

Israel has a good international image?..?

Israel has a good international image?..?Yes, in the US...

Yes, in the US...
Well, that isn't exactly an endorsement of the most intelligent degree.

Well, that isn't exactly an endorsement of the most intelligent degree.Well, there aren't any other endorsements. Go figure. ;)

Israelian nazis of jewish descent... it would be a delicious irony, but for the fact that it isn't delicious at all.

Israelian nazis of jewish descent... it would be a delicious irony, but for the fact that it isn't delicious at all.why not?

Yay! That would so help their international image!

You must be a UN diplomat!

He's of the Bolton school.

He's of the Bolton school.

Lol, would this be the same Bolton who was UN Ambassador but at the same time a warmongering neocon who hated diplomacy? There's some irony for you...

Israel has a good international image?..?

Um, what did he say about a good international image?

The Israeli Death Penalty is for those who assisted with the Holocaust.

I don't think there needs to be the death penalty but I do think they need to read the Nuremburg race laws; according to those these neo-nazis would have been executed.

Israel has a good international image?..?

I think you missed the sarcasm.

Israel has a good international image?..?

This would be why Barringtonia suggested it needs help, no?

Well, there aren't any other endorsements. Go figure. ;)

Well theres the fact that most of the oil reserves are within Israeli hating soil..:rolleyes:

AP seems to love popping and and out of this thread. If you're reading this, why don't you be a good boy and respond to the points brought up several pages ago debunking your garbage?

While this is retarded, I think we can all agree that neo-nazism is not generally a normal problem with Israeli citizens. However, Neo-Nazism is a HUGE problem in Russia, which was basically destroyed by Nazism. I think the biggest neo-nazi population exists in Russia.

Then boot their criminal asses back there.

Then boot their criminal asses back there.
To Russia? Where they will run free with the rest of their Russian nazi brothers? Only if they serve prison time in Israel first..because I doubt they would in Russia.

Not to get too far off topic, but the issues with rampant neo-Nazism in Eastern Europe is one of the reasons that Jews today need Israel.

Sure the US is very good to the Jews living here, but most of my fellow Jews seem to be losing their identity here. Of the seven students in my B'nai Mitzvah class back at my reform temple, I am the only one who continued being Jewish past age 13.

I don't care about what level of Judaism they follow. I don't care if they become agnostic or atheist and just continue to be a cultural Jew. The fact is that the culture is being lost and their children will not know the joy of Matza ball soup, kugel, gelt, gefilte fish (it seems sick, but is great with horse raddish), or the traditional melodies we were raised on. The number of Jews in the US has been dropping steadily as more and more Jews lose their identity. My family is a rare example where the culture has been kept alive. My grandfather was as secular as you can get. He would proudly say he was Jewish for the food. He still made sure that the culture was passed on.

Israel serves as a place where the Jewish identity is alive and well. You can walk the streets and buy a nice loaf of challah for 8 nis (about 2 US $). There is singing and dancing all around you. While 80% of Israel's Jews are secular, they are still doing their duty and allowing the culture to live be passed on from generation to generation.

Combine the anti-Semitic forces of Eastern Europe that halved the post Holocaust population of the region and the urge to assimilate in the west and the Jewish people will be extinct there in a few generations. Israel has kept both the religious and cultural aspects of Judaism alive.

...the Jewish people will be extinct in a few generations.
Well then, stick to it yourself and teach your kids. If people feel the urge to assimilate, that's their business.

Honestly, IDF. I support Israel 100% and it's existance for people who feel they need it....but I think being Jewish is important simply for the religion. I believe in Jewish God, the holidays, the values/morals and the religion. The only Jewish food I like is mazta ball soup..the rest of it can go to hell (looking at you, gefilte fish!). Most of those melodies you are talking about are Jiddisch and are dying simply because...well who knows Jiddisch except our grandparents? Don't get me wrong. I think it's a really cool language and I love it that I can understand alot of their Jiddisch from my knowing German...but it's understandable that Jiddisch will get lost. In my opinion, it's Israel's fault for not making Jiddisch the official language. Maybe I'd enjoy Israel more if they spoke Jiddisch. My identity is this. I am an American who practices Judaism. I am not Jewish because my mom believes in the Jewish God, I am Jewish because I choose to be and because I beleive in Judaism. It's an idea, a contract with God based on you beleiving in God and his religion...that's why Jews exist..because of the contract we made with God. Judaism is not something I beleive is passed down through blood and I find it very hard to accept and take seriously those calling themselves atheist Jews or Christian Jews or Muslim Jews (Keruvalia). They are not. Secular does not mean atheist...it's just means not very religious. I am very secular..I beleive in the God and the religion...but that's about it. I don't really attend Temple or wear anything that would make me look Jewish, nor do I look Jewish...."the sideburns or anything like that".

However, I support Israel as a homeland for Jews who feel they do need it. I'm just not one of them. I'd sooner live in Europe than Israel, but assuming the future is kind to me, I'd never give up my home in America.

End of rant.

Honestly, IDF. I support Israel 100% and it's existance for people who feel they need it....but I think being Jewish is important simply for the religion. I believe in Jewish God, the holidays, the values/morals and the religion. The only Jewish food I like is mazta ball soup..the rest of it can go to hell (looking at you, gefilte fish!). Most of those melodies you are talking about are Jiddisch and are dying simply because...well who knows Jiddisch except our grandparents? Don't get me wrong. I think it's a really cool language and I love it that I can understand alot of their Jiddisch from my knowing German...but it's understandable that Jiddisch will get lost. In my opinion, it's Israel's fault for not making Jiddisch the official language. Maybe I'd enjoy Israel more if they spoke Jiddisch. My identity is this. I am an American who practices Judaism. I am not Jewish because my mom believes in the Jewish God, I am Jewish because I choose to be and because I beleive in Judaism. It's an idea, a contract with God based on you beleiving in God and his religion...that's why Jews exist..because of the contract we made with God. Judaism is not something I beleive is passed down through blood and I find it very hard to accept and take seriously those calling themselves atheist Jews or Christian Jews or Muslim Jews (Keruvalia). They are not. Secular does not mean atheist...it's just means not very religious. I am very secular..I beleive in the God and the religion...but that's about it. I don't really attend Temple or wear anything that would make me look Jewish, nor do I look Jewish...."the sideburns or anything like that".

However, I support Israel as a homeland for Jews who feel they do need it. I'm just not one of them. I'd sooner live in Europe than Israel, but assuming the future is kind to me, I'd never give up my home in America.

End of rant.

Just kinda wanna address the idea of Judaism as an ethnicity rather than strictly a religion. For a lot of Jews in the US, this is exactly what it means to be Jewish. It is an ethnic heritage that is passed down through family. I consider myself Jewish, though I'm in no way a practicing one, and, in multiple ways, my personal philosophy might not line up completely with Judaism, but that is irrelevant in Judaism being one of my important group identifiers.

This doesn't really lead to many paradoxes, either. Jewish culture is very much a unique culture, from its humor to its food to its language. However, I do think for a lot of modern Jews there's a large rift growing between those whose ties are almost completely cultural and those whose ties are very much so religious in nature, but I think that's also due to the fairly large rift between Orthodox and Reform Jews that you see.

But, anyway, yea...saying being Jewish is simply a religious identification requires, imo, one to ignore a lot of things that keep the Jewish community together as a cohesive group that have little to nothing to do with one's belief in God or the divine or what-have-you.

Jesus Timmy-molesting Christ, AP. We totally took that argument to bits in the whole Christian Zealot thread. Come on, you too should know that Israel isn't propped up on US aid...Say what?

Well if it was a true occupation, the Israelis would have just got rid of that anti-jewish anti-israeli government in the first place.It is a true occupation. Occupation just means to take control of land that was inhabited by someone else before. That is exactly what has happened ever since the 1890ies.

Well, essentially Zionism is a failed ideology, it has failed to produce the independent Jewish farming country it espoused, instead it has become totally dependent on foreign sources of investment and aid in order to sustain itself.

Say what?

Annual US aid to Israel equals less than 1% of Israel's annual GDP. Look it up, it's fact.

The US does give long term loans to Israel, but Israel has a good record of paying those back. Besides, half the countries in the world take out loans from the US.

As for weapons. Most Israeli weapons are domestically made. The only major weapon imports by Israel are ships and planes because a nation of 7 million can't devote the industry necessary without hurting the butter side of the guns/butter scale.

Well, essentially Zionism is a failed ideology, it has failed to produce the independent Jewish farming country it espoused, instead it has become totally dependent on foreign sources of investment and aid in order to sustain itself.
Go get yourself a fucking clue please.

You have said that in numerous threads. Yootopia, I and others have shot you down each time. You fail to respond each time we shoot your bullshit down and then run and repeat your lies with no documentation.

You made that same claim in this very thread 2 days ago and have yet rebuffed our points. Go read and learn something.

It is a true occupation. Occupation just means to take control of land that was inhabited by someone else before. That is exactly what has happened ever since the 1890ies.

So the Jews who bought land in the late 19th and early 20th century were occupying it?

ROFLMAO at that one.

I of course can't expect facts to stop a raving racist like yourself. Racists are illogical by their very nature so I shouldn't expect you to be different than any other racists I've encountered.

So the Jews who bought land in the late 19th and early 20th century were occupying it?

ROFLMAO at that one.

I of course can't expect facts to stop a raving racist like yourself. Racists are illogical by their very nature so I shouldn't expect you to be different than any other racists I've encountered.

Question, how much did the Jews pay for the land?

And these guys have to have a falsified set of Jewish grandparents or be the children of highly screwed over guest worker serfs at least. To be able to be that and a neo-nazi is terrifyingly stupid though perhaps somewhat understandable when one considers their social position and the extent to which anti-semitism is prevelant in Russia, even if being a neo-nazi is terrifyingly stupid anyway.
Corrected!

Question, how much did the Jews pay for the land?
All Jews living on land pre-1947 bought it with either personal funds or with money collected by Jews abroad.

The land given for the Jewish State in the partition vote would've still been in the hands of the Arab land owners had the land owners stayed.

As to the Arab land owners, they either left on their own out of fear which resulted from decades of lies and propaganda spread by the Mufti, were kicked off for aiding the Arab armies, or some were kicked off by Israelis. While it is shameful, the same thing happened to Jews who owned land in Hebron and the rest of the Arab world.

There were probably about 600,000 Arab refugees from the war. (How many were kicked off the land vs left on their own is unknown. Many left after the war ended because they'd rather live under Arab jurisdictions).

There were 800,000-900,000 Jewish refugees from the war. Some left on their own, but most were displaced under the threat of death at the hands of the Arab countries they lived in. My Rabbi's parents were Iraqi. They never had plans to move to Israel, but they were forced too when the Iraqi government seized their business, home, and then threatened to imprison them if they didn't leave. They were accused of treason because they were Jewish. They ended up moving to Israel.

In the end, there were both Jewish and Arab refugees from the war. Today there are no Jewish refugees, but there are Arab refugees. Why?

The answer is simple. The Jews may have only had a base population of 700,000, but they were able to take in a refugee population that was larger than that base population.

The Arab nations with a total populaton of 40-50 million refused to take in 600,000 refugees. Why? Because they didn't give a damn about their brethren. They wanted to keep them in refugee camps so they could play victim when they were just as many if not more Jewish refugees in the aftermath of the war. They used the Palestinians as pawns.

The results of this are still felt in the Arab world today. The PLO tried to overthrow the Jordanian government because the Jordanians enslaved them for 19 years. The Jordanians and Palestinians still hold much resentment towards each other. It's to the point that Jordan much favors Israel over the PLO.

Question, how much did the Jews pay for the land?

Some beads, $25 and a whole lot of fast-moving highly aerodynamic lead?

Question, how much did the Jews pay for the land?

Question, when are you going to actually try to rebuff my points in a thread instead of doing your usual process of the following:

1: make stupid anti-Semitic points

2: get points rebuffed by several posters

3: leave thread

4: find another thread and repeat exact same stupid points from step 1

5: repeat in an infinite loop

My question has yet to be answered.

My question has yet to be answered.

It can't be answered in a specific amount because most of the land deals were private deals between the land owner and the buyer. I made my point now go debate unless you are a coward. You have yet to answer a single point or question asked in the dozens of debates you have been involved in on this forum. You are living in a world where the sky is green and bury your head in the sand and scream when someone counters your beliefs.

My question has yet to be answered.
It is an irrelevant question. Better ask who sold them the land: the actual inhabitants who had been living there for generations or abesntee landlords? The terms of sale and the circumstances under which a civilian population had been driven out are important factors too. I am afraid that Jordan's lack of neihborly chairity does not excuse Isreal's criminal expulsion.

It is an irrelevant question. Better ask who sold them the land: the actual inhabitants who had been living there for generations or abesntee landlords? The terms of sale and the circumstances under which a civilian population had been driven out are important factors too. I am afraid that Jordan's lack of neihborly chairity does not excuse Isreal's criminal expulsion.

But, the expulsion of a greater number of Jews by the other Arab nations makes the whole refugee issue a wash. For every 2 Palestinian refugees created by the war, there were 3 Jewish refugees. Don't blame Israel because Jordan, Egypt, and the rest of the Arab world used them as pawns for 60 years.

The Arabs ought to read about Hillel the Elder.

One day a Roman soldier came to harass the infamous sage. He taunted Hillel asking him to stand on one leg and recite the entire Torah.

Hillel responded with "treat others as you yourself wish to be treated. That is the entire law. The rest is simply explanation."

Too bad the Arab governments didn't treat their brethren as they themselves wished to be treated.

Don't blame Israel because Jordan, Egypt, and the rest of the Arab world used them as pawns for 60 years.
You know, that's the problem. People are still talking about "blame" like it matters. Not even the Israelis (at least the reasonable ones) still talk about that.

What is needed is realistic policy solutions that work from the status quo and nothing else. If that means dismantling a bunch of settlements in the West Bank, fine. If it means giving up a right to return, then that's fine too.

The fact is that the culture is being lost and their children will not know the joy of Matza ball soup, kugel, gelt, gefilte fish (it seems sick, but is great with horse raddish),.

I looked up gefilte fish....You're a sick, sick puppy.......




There is singing and dancing all around you. .

Thats India, where they can't get across the road without a musical number.....

... you supporting anti-intelluctual totalitarian governments ...

More delicious irony, I think.

All Jews living on land pre-1947 bought it with either personal funds or with money collected by Jews abroad.

The land given for the Jewish State in the partition vote would've still been in the hands of the Arab land owners had the land owners stayed.

As to the Arab land owners, they either left on their own out of fear which resulted from decades of lies and propaganda spread by the Mufti, were kicked off for aiding the Arab armies, or some were kicked off by Israelis. While it is shameful, the same thing happened to Jews who owned land in Hebron and the rest of the Arab world.

You know... this whole thing it reminds me strongly of Texas, when english-speaking people bought land from Mexicans, then decided to secede, went to war and joined the USA. Quite similar, don't you think so? (ok, apart from British role in Palestine, Holocaust etc... I was referring just to a nation-forming process starting with the simple private aquisition of land)


The Arab nations with a total populaton of 40-50 million refused to take in 600,000 refugees. Why? Because they didn't give a damn about their brethren. They wanted to keep them in refugee camps so they could play victim when they were just as many if not more Jewish refugees in the aftermath of the war. They used the Palestinians as pawns.

The results of this are still felt in the Arab world today. The PLO tried to overthrow the Jordanian government because the Jordanians enslaved them for 19 years. The Jordanians and Palestinians still hold much resentment towards each other. It's to the point that Jordan much favors Israel over the PLO.

QFT. I think that, generally, the worst enemies of Palestinians are the bordering Arab countries - not that Israel has been very kind to them, but Jordan, Syria and even Lebanon have been far worse.

(oh my, I agreed with IDF... oh my... :eek: :))

Lol, would this be the same Bolton who was UN Ambassador but at the same time a warmongering neocon who hated diplomacy? There's some irony for you...

Heh. I'm no neo-con, I'm a Libertarian. As for a warmonger, they called Churchill a warmonger when he urged Chamberlain to take a tougher stance on Hitler, and start preparing the military for a possible conflict.
However, I don't really think these people should be executed, but definitely deported back to Russia. Though, the Jews should point out that under their Futher, they'd have been gassed. Perhaps they should be given a choice in the matter, if they were true Nazis they'd realize their Jewish scum that don't deserve to live...
Really just another irony to this sad story.

All Jews living on land pre-1947 bought it with either personal funds or with money collected by Jews abroad..

Yep.

The land given for the Jewish State in the partition vote would've still been in the hands of the Arab land owners had the land owners stayed...

Bit of an unknown really....


As to the Arab land owners, they either left on their own out of fear which resulted from decades of lies and propaganda spread by the Mufti, were kicked off for aiding the Arab armies, or some were kicked off by Israelis. ...

The majority fled from fear of expulsion and attack, or from expulsion and attack.


There were 800,000-900,000 Jewish refugees from the war. ...

Over the next 18-20 years, and yes, some just migrated of their own accord.

Some left on their own, but most were displaced under the threat of death at the hands of the Arab countries they lived in. My Rabbi's parents were Iraqi. They never had plans to move to Israel, but they were forced too when the Iraqi government seized their business, home, and then threatened to imprison them if they didn't leave. They were accused of treason because they were Jewish.



The Arab nations with a total populaton of 40-50 million refused to take in 600,000 refugees. Why? Because they didn't give a damn about their brethren. They wanted to keep them in refugee camps so they could play victim when they were just as many if not more Jewish refugees in the aftermath of the war. They used the Palestinians as pawns..

Partly true. It ignores the fact that there were two waves of refugees, however. The first in 1948 and the second in 1967. Secondly, its normal to try to return refugees to their place of origin. Nobody envisaged there would be nowhere for them to go to. Thirdly Lebanon is a complicated country due to the balance of its population, and thus integration there is blocked primarily due to internal concerns re muslim/christian/druze and shia/sunni balance.

The results of this are still felt in the Arab world today. The PLO tried to overthrow the Jordanian government because the Jordanians enslaved them for 19 years. The Jordanians and Palestinians still hold much resentment towards each other. It's to the point that Jordan much favors Israel over the PLO.

Actually the jordanian problem arose due to the second influx in 1967. Essentially this rendered the Jordanians down to just over 50% of the population of the country (they are now about 48/49%). As the Palestinians arrived with armed militias and a loose form of Government, it was inevitable that conflict would occur, started by one side or the other.. Likewise, when the armed forces arrived in Lebanon, it destabilised the country and paved the way for the civil war (ironically seeing Palestinians fighting Syria).

The Idea of Jewish Nazis in Israel, that said as the article says thier connection to Jews - Judaism is distant.

Its worthy of a study, to see how the mindset developed certainly....There was a famous Jewish anti-semite in the 1930's in the states, but that was an indvidual, spouting paranoia in a manner hinting at instability....Name escapes me at the moment.

All Jews living on land pre-1947 bought it with either personal funds or with money collected by Jews abroad.

I like to add that the tensions arose over the sad situation that the Arab landowners were not the same as the Arabs that worked and had lived on the lands for centuries. The Jewish settlers bought the land from Arab landowners and thereafter the Arabs living there were dispossessed in favour of Jews, as the lands were bought to provide a Jewish haven in the first place. The poor Arab families got screwed over by their Arab landlords and to a lesser extent by the Jewish settlers.

Its worthy of a study, to see how the mindset developed certainly....There was a famous Jewish anti-semite in the 1930's in the states, but that was an indvidual, spouting paranoia in a manner hinting at instability....Name escapes me at the moment.

One of Hitler's top advisers was also Jewish.

Question, how much did the Jews pay for the land?
Whatever they agreed with the previous landowners. Obviously.

Not overly surprized that this sort of thing exists. After all, I never saw much difference between Nazism and Zionism.

Whatever they agreed with the previous landowners. Obviously.
That's the problem, it's sovereign territory.

Not overly surprized that this sort of thing exists. After all, I never saw much difference between Nazism and Zionism.
That's because you've been breathing in shit fumes from having your head up your ass. Try breathing fresh oxygen, does wonders for the thought process.

Nobody knows the background of those guys, but I can imagine that the Nazi clothes and Hitler pictures on the wall started as a kind of rebellion against their parents and the entire Israeli society.

Most of us did, only these guys are going a little further. Or didn’t you smoke pot? Or shouted ‘F**k the system!’

Now, while their deeds are no good, this gang doesn’t deserve death penalty.

They didn’t kill someone.

I’m wondering who is the most violent?

Those Jewish Neo-Nazi guys, or some people here that are shouting for a death penalty for a bunch of ordinary hooligans…

Perhaps read through the entire thread? I started what their background was. They are Russians and have one Jewish grandparents or relative, which by Israel's retarded laws, makes them Jewish and able to move to Israel and claim citizenship.

Nobody knows the background of those guys, but I can imagine that the Nazi clothes and Hitler pictures on the wall started as a kind of rebellion against their parents and the entire Israeli society.

Most of us did, only these guys are going a little further. Or didn’t you smoke pot? Or shouted ‘F**k the system!’

Now, while their deeds are no good, this gang doesn’t deserve death penalty.

They didn’t kill someone.

I’m wondering who is the most violent?

Those Jewish Neo-Nazi guys, or some people here that are shouting for a death penalty for a bunch of ordinary hooligans…

That's because you've been breathing in shit fumes from having your head up your ass. Try breathing fresh oxygen, does wonders for the thought process.

Tell that to the christians, lebonese and palastinians who are routinely assaulting by Isreal youths chucking rocks at them. Isreal practically qualifies as an apartied state for crips sake! And if their is a difference between the two, its only in degree.

By the way, I live in the country. Oxygen is fine thank you very much.

Perhaps read through the entire thread? I started what their background was. They are Russians and have one Jewish grandparents or relative, which by Israel's retarded laws, makes them Jewish and able to move to Israel and claim citizenship.


So?

Having one Jewish ancestor was enough for Hitler and friends to have a visit to the gas showers.

The Israelis invented that law for trying-to-outnumber-Palestinians purposes

Sure, that all kind of crap people ran to Israel.

I would not be surprised that several governments worldwide did some cleaning in their jails and released the ones with some Jewish origins.

Oh well, Jewish Neo-Nazis in Israel, it’s like a black fly in your Chardonnay, isn’t?

Good evening Ladies & Gentlemen,

Tonight we have on the right side Jewish Neo-Nazis living in Israel.
They have swastika tattoos and believe in “Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer”

On the left side, we have the children of Jewish people that survived the Nazi gas rooms.

I’m your host and I’m Jerry Springer...

AP you truly are a coward. You make hit and run attacks in dozens of threads and shy away at the first sight of intelligent argument against your bullshit lies and poor logic. Why don't you stay in a single thread and try to take apart someone's full argument point by point. That is what intelligent debate is. Either do that or STFU about Israel because you keep repeating the same lies over and over in several threads ignoring the reams of evidence brought against you.

That's because you've been breathing in shit fumes from having your head up your ass. Try breathing fresh oxygen, does wonders for the thought process.


Now now. Just because the whole thing strikes close to home......

Now now. Just because the whole thing strikes close to home......
1. I'm not Israeli.

2. It's flaming/flamebaiting. If you don't think jumping into a thread saying "Zionism=Nazism" is trolling/flaming/flame-baiting/whatever internet term you want to use....you obviously are mistaken.

AP you truly are a coward. You make hit and run attacks in dozens of threads and shy away at the first sight of intelligent argument against your bullshit lies and poor logic. Why don't you stay in a single thread and try to take apart someone's full argument point by point. That is what intelligent debate is. Either do that or STFU about Israel because you keep repeating the same lies over and over in several threads ignoring the reams of evidence brought against you.

Now insulting his tactics I can approve of, calling him a coward I cannot. A mod came in last time someone did this, please don't ruin it for the rest of us.

Good evening Ladies & Gentlemen,

Tonight we have on the right side Jewish Neo-Nazis living in Israel.
They have swastika tattoos and believe in “Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer”

On the left side, we have the children of Jewish people that survived the Nazi gas rooms.

I’m your host and I’m Jerry Springer...

JER-RY!! JER-RY!! JER-RY!! JER-RY!! JER-RY!!

1. I'm not Israeli.

2. It's flaming/flamebaiting. If you don't think jumping into a thread saying "Zionism=Nazism" is trolling/flaming/flame-baiting/whatever internet term you want to use....you obviously are mistaken.


Well, I meant the OP -the way they were against immigrants and "foriegners" etc. Given some of your posts.......

Well, I meant the OP -the way they were against immigrants and "foriegners" etc. Given some of your posts.......
Oh yeah because by questioning uncontrolled immigration one becomes a nazi/skinhead. Well done. :rolleyes:

Oh yeah because by questioning uncontrolled immigration one becomes a nazi/skinhead. Well done. :rolleyes:


You never went on about afro-americans? Hmmm?

That's the problem, it's sovereign territory.
...

That was retarded, even for you.

If I sold some of my back garden to a German, who wanted a place to build a shed in foreign lands for whatever reason, then would it be 'a problem' that the land is British land, and hence 'sovereign territory'?

You never went on about afro-americans? Hmmm?
I've "been on" about everyone. Your point? I'm critical of many things, though to be fair I'm not sure what you are talking about in this case.

I've "been on" about everyone. Your point? I'm critical of many things, though to be fair I'm not sure what you are talking about in this case.


O it was a while back. Suffice to say it didn't sound like you enjoyed their company, for some reason.

O it was a while back. Suffice to say it didn't sound like you enjoyed their company, for some reason.
I'm at a gigantic Universal in a huge mulitcultural city....I enjoy EVERYONES company on an individual level until proven otherwise. Otherwise, I wouldn't have many friends now would I?;)

Its possible I have you confused with somebody else, so therefore please accept my apologies.

Say what?

He is right. Israel is not being propped up by anyone.

Well, essentially Zionism is a failed ideology, it has failed to produce the independent Jewish farming country it espoused, instead it has become totally dependent on foreign sources of investment and aid in order to sustain itself.

Farming country? News to me. Anyways...this has been proven false before and will be proven false in the future.

Not overly surprized that this sort of thing exists. After all, I never saw much difference between Nazism and Zionism.

Do you know what Zionism is?

If jews have the right to come back to Israel after 5000 years .
why dosen't UN force israel to allow Palestinian refugees to come back to their motherland only after 60 years .
and the answer is if they come back arab muslims will be majority in Israel and
thats the truth people that dont care anything about jew and their religion are being invited to migrate to israel and millions of palestinians which have the right to live in their ancestral homeland have been denied their basic human right
the reason israel allows in people from places like russia is they know that birth rate of israeli arabs is much higher than jewish population and in 100 years their population will be more than jews and that will be the end of israel as we know it

Its possible I have you confused with somebody else, so therefore please accept my apologies.
No, it's quite possible that you mean me. I'm sure I've commented on the problems with the Black community in America..I just don't remember what you specifcally are talking about.

However, my point was while I've commented on the problems in the Black community...when dealing with INDIVIDUALS, I don't have a problem with anyone until proven otherwise. I get along with everyone in real life, beleive it or not.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6985808.stm



Is it just me that finds this totally mind boggling? Is this an indication of how little history people know nowadays?

Irony is key because people never learn from history...why do you think we keep repeating it?

Irony is key because people never learn from history...why do you think we keep repeating it?

It could also be a point that the oppressed will over time get a tremendous kick out of becoming oppressors themselves.

So?

Having one Jewish ancestor was enough for Hitler and friends to have a visit to the gas showers.

The Israelis invented that law for trying-to-outnumber-Palestinians purposes

Sure, that all kind of crap people ran to Israel.

I would not be surprised that several governments worldwide did some cleaning in their jails and released the ones with some Jewish origins.

Oh well, Jewish Neo-Nazis in Israel, it’s like a black fly in your Chardonnay, isn’t?


People with 4 German grandparents (white circles on the chart) were of "German blood", while people were classified as Jews if they descended from three or four Jewish grandparents.
As defined by the Nazi Nuremberg laws in 1935, a Jew was somebody who had at least three Jewish grandparents, regardless of religious affiliation or self-identification; or somebody with two Jewish grandparents who either belonged to the Jewish religion or was married to a Jew.



Don't talk out of your ass. Learn about facts first. People with one jewish grandparent were exempt. As were jews with two jewish grandparents (provided they were not married to a true jew themselves).

People with 4 German grandparents (white circles on the chart) were of "German blood", while people were classified as Jews if they descended from three or four Jewish grandparents.
As defined by the Nazi Nuremberg laws in 1935, a Jew was somebody who had at least three Jewish grandparents, regardless of religious affiliation or self-identification; or somebody with two Jewish grandparents who either belonged to the Jewish religion or was married to a Jew.



Don't talk out of your ass. Learn about facts first. People with one jewish grandparent were exempt. As were jews with two jewish grandparents (provided they were not married to a true jew themselves).

You are 100% correct in your statement.

Irony is key because people never learn from history...why do you think we keep repeating it?
Same reason we have the same Israel/Palestine discussions over and over and over again. Everything's stuck on loop.

No-one seems to be picking up on the fact that they're all from the former Soviet Union. Assuming that means Russian, Belorussian or Ukrainian (and not something non-Slavic like Lithuanian), this is quite possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Didn't the Nazis plan a complete extermination of their race or at least a mass population transfer over the Urals to die in Siberia? And didn't they kill like 20 million of them during their invasion? (compare that to the Jewish 6 million)

Woho! Those Nazi Germans were good people, isn't? Only killing the 'real' Jews. How lovely!

So, you are sure that they didn't kill catholic 'Jews' with just one Jewish grandparent?

In that case, I'm still wondering why those wankers killed my grandfather.

He didn't survive Breendonk (http://www.breendonk.be/). His grandfather was a quart Jewish...

As far as we know there is no other Jewish blood running in our family.

Look, if Nazi Germany was active *now*, I would not take the risk by going to the local Gestapo bar and say loud 'Hi, Nazi pigs, happy Chanoeka. Don't bother with me, my grandfather his grandfather was a quart Jew, so accoring your Nuremberg laws I'm white, what do you all want to drink from me?'



People with 4 German grandparents (white circles on the chart) were of "German blood", while people were classified as Jews if they descended from three or four Jewish grandparents.
As defined by the Nazi Nuremberg laws in 1935, a Jew was somebody who had at least three Jewish grandparents, regardless of religious affiliation or self-identification; or somebody with two Jewish grandparents who either belonged to the Jewish religion or was married to a Jew.



Don't talk out of your ass. Learn about facts first. People with one jewish grandparent were exempt. As were jews with two jewish grandparents (provided they were not married to a true jew themselves).

Do you know what Zionism is?Jewish quest for Lebensraum.

Jewish quest for Lebensraum.

Um no. It is wanting a homeland and not living space.

Ignore UB, he's an anti-Semite who has said numerous times he wants the Jews to be wiped out through genocide.

Oh I should ignore him but come on. I enjoy bashing his thesises to pieces.

Um no. It is wanting a homeland and not living space.

Ignore UB, he's an anti-Semite who has said numerous times he wants the Jews to be wiped out through genocide.

Jewish quest for Lebensraum.
You know, this kind of absurd vitriol doesn't in any way advance your cause, right? If we didn't have to put up with this kind of bullshit from peddlers of hate, we'd probably have, or be much closer towards, some kind of solution to the Israel/Palestine problem. At least, one that doesn't involve genocide.

Um no. It is wanting a homeland and not living space.They wanted someone else's homeland to turn into their own living space. Zionism is the notion that it is ok to take something away from Arabs.

You know, this kind of absurd vitriol doesn't in any way advance your cause, right? If we didn't have to put up with this kind of bullshit from peddlers of hate, we'd probably have, or be much closer towards, some kind of solution to the Israel/Palestine problem. At least, one that doesn't involve genocide.That's not absurd at all. Are you denying that Palestine was already populated when the Jews coveted it? And that it is logical that wanting to create a state there was identical to wanting the current population removed?

They wanted someone else's homeland to turn into their own living space. Zionism is the notion that it is ok to take something away from Arabs.

I believe we have established the fact that this is 100% false in the face of history! That's ok. We all know you're an anti-semite with no factual evidence.

I agree with the ones who said that many people do not know anything of history.

We should read too much and get informed to see the real history and be carfeul from antisemitic people and media.

I believe we have established the fact that this is 100% false in the face of history! That's ok. We all know you're an anti-semite with no factual evidence.Factual evidence? Are you denying that an Arab population in Palestine even existed, or what? And that Zionists wanted Palestine for themselves? Zionism was guided by the same imperialistic attitude that guided its British sponsors. If it was just about creating der Judenstaat they could have created it elsewhere, but they wanted Palestine regardless of its inhabitants right to self-determination (which was overruled by the British and later the UN).

I agree with the ones who said that many people do not know anything of history.

We should read too much and get informed to see the real history and be carfeul from antisemitic people and media.

Agreed.

They wanted someone else's homeland to turn into their own living space. Zionism is the notion that it is ok to take something away from Arabs.

That's not absurd at all. Are you denying that Palestine was already populated when the Jews coveted it? And that it is logical that wanting to create a state there was identical to wanting the current population removed?

I cannot believe what you have writen... I guess you do not know anything from history so on about geopolitic.

Factual evidence?

Yep.

Are you denying that an Arab population in Palestine even existed, or what?

How far back are we willing to go?

And that Zionists wanted Palestine for themselves?

Seems to me that they were content with the UN Partition plan. Do you remember that? Are you denying that they were content with the Partition plan?

Zionism was guided by the same imperialistic attitude that guided its British sponsors.

I call bullshit and demand that you back that up

Yep.



How far back are we willing to go?



Seems to me that they were content with the UN Partition plan. Do you remember that? Are you denying that they were content with the Partition plan?



I call bullshit and demand that you back that up


My greetings Corneliu 2,

I totally agree on what you`ve stated before.

It seems some people here are too anti-zionist saying something about Israel`imperialism which is something written by a left extremist who does not know anything but not from history but about politic and life

My greetings Corneliu 2,

I totally agree on what you`ve stated before.

It seems some people here are too anti-zionist saying something about Israel`imperialism which is something written by a left extremist who does not know anything but not from history but about politic and life

Indeed and welcome to NSG.

Yep.You know what Zionism is about, right? It is in the very nature of it.

How far back are we willing to go?The end of the Ottoman Empire of course. When it should have been the right of the Arabs to determine their own political future, but instead their land was sliced up into petty territories governed by others.

Seems to me that they were content with the UN Partition plan. Do you remember that? Are you denying that they were content with the Partition plan?And? If the UN draws up a partition plan for Pennsylvania to give away half of it to foreigners without asking the inhabitants of Pennsylvania, is that just if those who are supposed to get half of that land are content? The Arabs all voted against the partition plan, but they were outnumbered by folks who would not have to bear the consequences of said plan. Why should Palestinian Arabs ever have to share their homeland with others? Why? It is not that it was about dividing an empty land and giving one half to Jews and one half to Arabs, it was about taking away from Arabs and giving it to Jews. So seem to see some kind of obligation by the Arabs to share their land? Would you give up half of your home just because someone else desires it? Would you?

I call bullshit and demand that you back that upZionism wanted to colonize Palestine. That's imperialism.

You know what Zionism is about, right? It is in the very nature of it.

Zi·on·ism (z-nzm) KEY

NOUN:

A Jewish movement that arose in the late 19th century in response to growing anti-Semitism and sought to reestablish a Jewish homeland in Palestine. Modern Zionism is concerned with the support and development of the state of Israel.

You lose the Zionism debate.

The end of the Ottoman Empire of course. When it should have been the right of the Arabs to determine their own political future, but instead were sliced up into petty territories.

So you want to go back only 89 years? *dies of laughter*

*snip*

We are not talking about PA UB. Besides that, PA is a state in the United States. "Palestine" was never a state nor associated with anyone at the time of the partition plan. You lose again.

Zionism wanted to colonize Palestine. That's imperialism.

im·pe·ri·al·ism (m-pîr--lzm) KEY

NOUN:

The policy of extending a nation's authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political hegemony over other nations.
The system, policies, or practices of such a government.

Strike 3

You know what Zionism is about, right? It is in the very nature of it.

The end of the Ottoman Empire of course. When it should have been the right of the Arabs to determine their own political future, but instead their land was sliced up into petty territories governed by others.

And? If the UN draws up a partition plan for Pennsylvania to give away half of it to foreigners without asking the inhabitants of Pennsylvania, is that just if those who are supposed to get half of that land are content? The Arabs all voted against the partition plan, but they were outnumbered by folks who would not have to bear the consequences of said plan. Why should Palestinian Arabs ever have to share their homeland with others? Why? It is not that it was about dividing an empty land and giving one half to Jews and one half to Arabs, it was about taking away from Arabs and giving it to Jews. So seem to see some kind of obligation by the Arabs to share their land? Would you give up half of your home just because someone else desires it? Would you?

Zionism wanted to colonize Palestine. That's imperialism.

NOOOOOOOOO WRONG!!! noone wants to colonize Palestine and that`s a delirious and stupid description.

Thanks Conrneliu 2 you too... first day here so I seem a little bit lost considering I do not manage english language

NOOOOOOOOO WRONG!!! noone wants to colonize Palestine and that`s a delirious and stupid description.

You'll get used to it :D

Thanks Conrneliu 2 you too... first day here so I seem a little bit lost considering I do not manage english language

You manage it well from my perspective :)

How can you folks possibly put the desires of European Jews over the needs of the actual population of Palestine at the time? There has never been any reason to take away land from Arabs to give it to Jews. None. The entire Jew-state thing was forced on the Arabs, and now you wonder why they don't like it. But it seems you folks are incapable of even considering the Arab perspective.

There has never been any reason to take away land from Arabs to give it to Jews. None.

There has never been any reason to take away land from Jews and give it to Arabs. None.

The entire Jew-state thing was forced on the Arabs, and now you wonder why they don't like it.

I point to the partition plan to prove you wrong.

But it seems you folks are incapable of even considering the Arab perspective.

Oh we have considered it and if they had not attacked the State of Israel, there very well could be two states today and a lasting peace in the Middle East.

You manage it well from my perspective :)

And from mine too.

Still, this probably wouldn't have made the news so much if these Israeli Neo-Nazis had been treated like common Palestinians and shot on the spot.

There has never been any reason to take away land from Jews and give it to Arabs. None.



I point to the partition plan to prove you wrong.



Oh we have considered it and if they had not attacked the State of Israel, there very well could be two states today and a lasting peace in the Middle East.

you are what we call a abin manukei ill bilhas tis ikwato and luti ill la yifhamna

for the IDIOTSSSSSSSSSSSSS WHo say Isreal is right they can kISs my ***

Now care to point out where I said that Israel is always right?

and go to **** you hear me i am an arab whose lived through isreali bombardment and you can go **** yourselves till kingdom come, even though palestine was never a state they had more right than the jews who decide to go back to isreal after 1000 years lol,

You said it yourself that Palestine was never a state. As to living through Israeli bombarments, that puts you either in the West Bank, Gaza, Lebanon, or Syria.

what the *** are you smoking?

Nothing. Smoking is bad for one's health and I would love to see 100.

you want a fair solution the isreali's should give back all the land they took pay 50 billion euros per year in reparations(cus the dollar sucks ***) and get rid of all weapons of mass destructions and apolgise to us for what they did

And what about the harm that the Arabs visited on the Israelis? I mean, with all the suicide attacks against civilians. The Israelis should have reparations from the Arab governments that sponsored such atrocities.

K thats fair, after all we werent the ones who started it

Um yea... It was the Arabs that started the Arab-Israeli War of 1948

and why palestine they should have punished the nazi not us like giving them bavaria or austria dont say anything till you lived it kapesh my god stupid retards dont know a shit about the middle east you need the facts ask me not the newspapers

Or how about we do not ask you as you are not exactly unbiased yourself.

you are what we call a abin manukei ill bilhas tis ikwato and luti ill la yifhamna

Now what is that in english?

for the IDIOTSSSSSSSSSSSSS WHo say Isreal is right they can kISs my ***
and go to **** you hear me i am an arab whose lived through isreali bombardment and you can go **** yourselves till kingdom come, even though palestine was never a state they had more right than the jews who decide to go back to isreal after 1000 years lol, what the *** are you smoking? you want a fair solution the isreali's should give back all the land they took pay 50 billion euros per year in reparations(cus the dollar sucks ***) and get rid of all weapons of mass destructions and apolgise to us for what they did K thats fair, after all we werent the ones who started it and why palestine they should have punished the nazi not us like giving them bavaria or austria dont say anything till you lived it kapesh my god stupid retards dont know a shit about the middle east you need the facts ask me not the newspapers
Ban coming in
54321

you are what we call a abin manukei ill bilhas tis ikwato and luti ill la yifhamna

You are what we call a troll. Go away and back to your bridge.

That's not absurd at all. Are you denying that Palestine was already populated when the Jews coveted it? And that it is logical that wanting to create a state there was identical to wanting the current population removed?
No and no.

It seem some people here have an unexplainable and hateful feeling agains Isreal and the jews... Why ? Because do not know anything and do not want to assume thei own responsibility on some issues between Israel and Palestina...

When Israel state was createad -1948 if I`m not wrong- since that moment arabs start a war against Israel state and what they got as answer was loosing territories only beacuse of being nuts. You really deserve it !!!

It seem some people here have an unexplainable and hateful feeling agains Isreal and the jews... Why ? Because do not know anything and do not want to assume thei own responsibility on some issues between Israel and Palestina...

When Israel state was createad -1948 if I`m not wrong- since that moment arabs start a war against Israel state and what they got as answer was loosing territories only beacuse of being nuts. You really deserve it !!!

Yep. And the Arab League violated a UN Resolution about Jerusalem to in the process. People forget about that as well.

Yep. And the Arab League violated a UN Resolution about Jerusalem to in the process. People forget about that as well.

Right and many times right !!!

It seems some people in this forum do not want to see the reallity that`s not Israel pressuring arabs.

I agree if you say that the problem is always with the fucking extremist in Israel and so forth.

If the arabs do not stop to teach the children to kill israeli people and Israeli extremist do not recognize arabs` rights -whats is really happening- nothing could be done.

Must look both size of the coin. Ok ?

Right and many times right !!!

It seems some people in this forum do not want to see the reallity that`s not Israel pressuring arabs.

I agree if you say that the problem is always with the fucking extremist in Israel and so forth.

If the arabs do not stop to teach the children to kill israeli people and Israeli extremist do not recognize arabs` rights -whats is really happening- nothing could be done.

Must look both size of the coin. Ok ?

Indeed. Both extremists are keeping this conflict going. The moderates are trying to prevail and have made some strides but then the extremists take over and trouble starts all over again. *sighs* Its a never ending circle sadly.

There has never been any reason to take away land from Arabs to give it to Jews. .

Actually, there was. See, it's this funny thing called transaction.
For example: Jews give money to Arab Sheik. Arab Sheik gives them land.

That's more or less the way these things work.

And just for the sake of argument- if Egypt and Jordan wouldn't have gobbled up Gaza and the West Bank in 48, the Palestinians would (for the first time ever) have had an actual State.

Woho! Those Nazi Germans were good people, isn't? Only killing the 'real' Jews. How lovely!

So, you are sure that they didn't kill catholic 'Jews' with just one Jewish grandparent?

In that case, I'm still wondering why those wankers killed my grandfather.

He didn't survive Breendonk (http://www.breendonk.be/). His grandfather was a quart Jewish...

As far as we know there is no other Jewish blood running in our family.

Look, if Nazi Germany was active *now*, I would not take the risk by going to the local Gestapo bar and say loud 'Hi, Nazi pigs, happy Chanoeka. Don't bother with me, my grandfather his grandfather was a quart Jew, so accoring your Nuremberg laws I'm white, what do you all want to drink from me?'


Good people? Now where did I state that? I merely corrected your slanting of history. There is enough misinformation about WW2 already, to have more idiots adding to it just insults the victims of the bloody times even more.

Also no they didn't kill Catholic Jews with one Jewish grandparent.
"Mischlings” were often Roman Catholics. In the 19th Century many German Jews converted to Christianity, almost all becoming Roman Catholics rather than Protestants; they and their descendants then often married Christians. As a result many Roman Catholics in Germany had some traceable Jewish ancestry by the time the Nazis came to power, so that many 1st or 2nd degree Mischlinge were Catholics. The official ideology was that with one or two Jewish grandparents (provided you didn't marry another Jew yourself) you were sufficiently "aryanized" to no longer fall under the statute of an "untermensch."
About your analogy. Insulting the Party would have gotten him into trouble if he said that, not his ancestry. The only thing he couldn't do was join the SS, the SS you had to prove you were "racially clean" since 1780 (since at the time the village priest or a functionary, etc.. had all marriages written down in a huge log book it wasn't that hard to prove ancestry unless you were a bastard or an orphan who didn't know their parents name). The date 1780 was chosen due to the 30 years war prior to that, destroying many records and so choosing a date before that would have been impractical.
As for your grandfather not surviving. That could have been many things. These were bloody times. All sides committed atrocities. It was war after all. And as efficient as the German machine was, to call it perfect would be biased and misleading. But then again maybe it wasn't his ancestry but more that someone cited him for homosexual activity, insulting the party/formenting rebellious ideas, going against party lines or maybe he was seen kissing a Jewish girl. Or perhaps it was simply an overzealous National Socialist for whom one jewish grandparent was enough, despite this going against official Party policy. I seriously wouldn't know.

Actually, there was. See, it's this funny thing called transaction.
For example: Jews give money to Arab Sheik. Arab Sheik gives them land.
That's more or less the way these things work.Up to 8 % of land ownership entitles to 50+ % of the land and resources how?

And just for the sake of argument- if Egypt and Jordan wouldn't have gobbled up Gaza and the West Bank in 48, the Palestinians would (for the first time ever) have had an actual State.If Jews had not out of ideology come to Palestine in the first place, and the British had not let them, then there would have been no problem at all to begin with. Jews are the intruders here, not Arabs.

There was no reason ever to create an artificial Jewish state in the Middle East, except to willfully break the promises made to the Arabs earlier, when they were still fighting the Turks.

Yep. And the Arab League violated a UN Resolution about Jerusalem to in the process. People forget about that as well.

And that justtifies 40 years of settlement building and slow-drip ethnic cleansing in Arab East Jerusalem, the West Bank?

And that justtifies 40 years of settlement building and slow-drip ethnic cleansing in Arab East Jerusalem, the West Bank?

Does it justify 3 useless wars when Palestine could have had a state in 1948 along side Israel? If it were not for the 1st Arab-Israeli War, and the Arab League's rejection of the Partition Plan, Palestine would be a state today.

Yep. And the Arab League violated a UN Resolution about Jerusalem to in the process. People forget about that as well.

Israel ignored 60+ UN resolutions. Now what is worse ?

Israel ignored 60+ UN resolutions. Now what is worse ?

That's not counting how many UN declarations have condemned Israel, including the one that Zionism is a racist ideology akin to Apartheid.

Woah, that is strong language coming from the BBC. Instead of using the word vandalised they used desecrated.

That's not counting how many UN declarations have condemned Israel, including the one that Zionism is a racist ideology akin to Apartheid.

Except that Zionism is not racism despite what you have been brainwashed to believe.

That's not counting how many UN declarations have condemned Israel, including the one that Zionism is a racist ideology akin to Apartheid.

Yes, but those resolutions were most of the time vetoed by the US. Didnt pass.

Israel ignored 60+ UN resolutions. Now what is worse ?

The one that the Arab League ignored that resulted in the first Arab-Israeli War. If the Arab league had not violated it and had not gone on the warpath, there would have been no need for additional resolutions.

Yes, but those resolutions were most of the time vetoed by the US. Didnt pass.

Yet it was around for 16 years and was upheld for 16 years that Zionism is nothing but racism.

. Jews are the intruders here, not Arabs.

.

You realize that there were Jews living in that area (call it Israel or Palestine, call it Oogly-Boogly if you wish) since biblical times?
Indigenous Jewish neighborhoods in Jerusalem, Safed and Akko were being constantly attacked by arabs. At some point in the 19th century (can't remember the exact date) nearly all of the Jewish Quarter in Hebron was decimated.
So please. Even before Zionism there was hatred between the two peoples. And even when Jews didn't try to steal arab lands (by giving them money in a legitimate transaction) there was fighting and hostilities.
Zionism isn't racism at all. The concept of Zionism is very simple. Having and maintaining a home for the Jews.

In the state of Israel, Israeli Arabs (who live in Israel, not those in the occupied territories) are citizens. Not only do they get full civil rights, they are even being helped by a form of affirmative action. Israeli Arabs are ingrained in every facet of Israeli life, many are doctors and lawyers. No racism/apartheid there.

In the territories, hidden amongst the civilian population, are what we call "bad-guys". Those bad guys want to kill many many Israelis. Now, Israelis can't tell good guys from bad guys. The bad guys don't wear special hats or colored clothes. They also don't look like bad guys from movies.
Because Israel doesn't want its people to die, it puts up roadblocks and fences to keep the bad guys out of Israel. This also hurts the good guys, who want to go into Israel to work and bring money home.
Many of the good guys do go into Israel and work. Some of the good guys turn out to be bad guys and go boom in places.

If Israel was a racist state, not even the good guys would be able to enter.

Some Israeli people are racist (like some Americans, French, and Nicaraguans)
but that doesn't make the entire state one.

Does it justify 3 useless wars when Palestine could have had a state in 1948 along side Israel? If it were not for the 1st Arab-Israeli War, and the Arab League's rejection of the Partition Plan, Palestine would be a state today.

Two of those were before settlement began.....Thats rather a stupid answer, even for you.

The one that the Arab League ignored that resulted in the first Arab-Israeli War. If the Arab league had not violated it and had not gone on the warpath, there would have been no need for additional resolutions..

....which shows a great deal of ignorance of the subjects of said resolutions. Again, justifying Israeli aggression and colonisation outside its own borders against the Palestinians by the transgressions of the arab states.

In the state of Israel, Israeli Arabs (who live in Israel, not those in the occupied territories) are citizens. Not only do they get full civil rights, they are even being helped by a form of affirmative action. Israeli Arabs are ingrained in every facet of Israeli life, many are doctors and lawyers. No racism/apartheid there...

A nonsense, given the widespread discimination against Arabs, particularily in matters of land. What of the treatment of the Bedouin in the Negev? And what about the occupied territories? Israeli civil law for the settlers, a form of martial law for the Palestinians. Settler only roads and areas.....That reads like a form of racist Apartheid to me.


If Israel was a racist state, not even the good guys would be able to enter.
...

You know what a Bantustan was?

Woah, that is strong language coming from the BBC. Instead of using the word vandalised they used desecrated.

I know. I had to shield my virgin eyes from such a travesty.

Yet it was around for 16 years and was upheld for 16 years that Zionism is nothing but racism.

Why isn't it around now? (BECAUSE IT WAS REPEALED!)

And why are you too much of a coward to stay in a debate and instead wait 2 days before returning with a completely different argument?

And what about the occupied territories? Israeli civil law for the settlers, a form of martial law for the Palestinians. Settler only roads and areas.....

The settlements were a bad move. Israel fucked itself up terribly with that decision. They should have pulled out years ago. But I think it's a bit too late for that now.
If you look at every concession that Israel made (excluding Sinai) it only encouraged further violence. They pulled out of Lebanon, it cost them a kidnapped soldiers, shelling of northern towns, more shellings and attacks on bases, more kidnappings and a war. They pulled out of Gaza, and it cost them constant bombardment of towns, many infiltrations into Israel (most in an attempt to enter a border town and do fun things there.)
Take the above, add to it the fact that Hamas rules the Gaza strip, add to it the fact that Hamas's official line states a return to the '48 borders, and you get the point of this rant.
The point is this:
Although Israel made a stupid mistake by building the settlements in the first place, they are pretty much stuck there. And they kinda don't want their people to die, so they keep the Palestinians away from them. By means of closing certain roads, erecting roadblocks and checkpoints and whatnot.


A nonsense, given the widespread discimination against Arabs, particularily in matters of land. What of the treatment of the Bedouin in the Negev?


Don't quiet understand the question. I believe that you are talking about their derelict villages, and about how the Israeli government ignores them. If your question addressed something else, then the following paragraph will make no sense.

Israel gives money to the Bedouin. Maybe it's not enough, but then again, many Jewish cities in Israel don't get enough money also. Next time you're in Israel, go visit a city called Yerocham. Also in the Negev. Yerocham has one of the highest unemployment rates in all of Israel, it has quite a lot of blackouts, high crime, sewege disposal issues and is generally a shitty place to live.

Some Bedouin settlements are not registered/recognized by Israel. That is due to the simple fact that they didn't buy the land from Israel, but simply squatted there. If they would have gone through the proper channels maybe things would have been different.
Is it just? Nope. But it is the Law.
Other then that, I'm afraid I really don't know what you mean. Bedouin are allowed to travel on any road they wish, with no checkpoints or harrasments.
The only thing I can think of, is that they are more frequently pulled over by cops because many of the car theft gangs of Israel are owned by Bedouin.


You know what a Bantustan was?

Nope. Do tell...

The settlements were a bad move. Israel fucked itself up terribly with that decision. They should have pulled out years ago. But I think it's a bit too late for that now....

Bollocks its too late. Besides, they are still building them. They are an expanding work in progress.



If you look at every concession that Israel made (excluding Sinai) it only encouraged further violence. (..snip)checkpoints and whatnot.
....

So colonialism and repression causes violence which then must be dealt with by means of more colonisation and repression? Great idea that.


Don't quiet understand the question. I believe that you are talking about their derelict villages, and about how the Israeli government ignores them. If your question addressed something else, then the following paragraph will make no sense.....

For somebody who holds such firm convictions, you seem a bit short on facts.

This neither seems to have much of "derelict" or "ignored" to it.
"Representatives from the Interior Ministry and the Israel Lands Administration accompanied by police razed 17 homes in the unrecognized Bedouin village of Al-Twayil in the Negev on Wednesday.

The village, north of Be'er Sheva, consists of about 50 houses. Residents who lost their homes are considering building a tent city on the site. "
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=797752

"UN rights panel slams Israel over treatment of Bedouin
The commission called on the government to build adequate infrastructure in unrecognized villages, to cease house demolitions and to stop spraying Bedouin crops with defoliants. The commission also expressed concern over the intention to transfer families from scattered shanties into permanent government-built communities, as proposed in the new Negev Bedouin development plan, recently approved by the government. The report noted the Environment Ministry's "systematic pursuit" of Bedouin citizens. "
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=298088
(my bold)


Nope. Do tell...

You don't know how to use a search engine?

Neo-Nazi Boneheads with Jewish ancestry going apeshit in Israel are arrested, whereas the typical Palestinian rockthrower simply gets a 7.62mm put through the skull. It's almost like a message that says "Palestinians are even worse than Neo-Nazis."

I know. I had to shield my virgin eyes from such a travesty.Oh, shush. The beeb considers itself unbiased. Using desecration doesn't really fit the part.

It's all about the language. Selecting the right words can change how people consider what you're saying immensely.

Bollocks its too late.

Okay.
Tell me please, what makes more sense.

A) 2000 AD: Israel leaves Lebanon---> Hizballah shouts "Terrorism works!" and attacks.
B) 2005 AD: Israel leaves Gaza---> Hamas shouts "Terrorism works!" and attacks.

C) 2008 AD: Israel leaves West bank---> Peace and tranquility sweep through the middle east.

-or-
A) 2000 AD: Israel leaves Lebanon---> Hizballah shouts "Terrorism works!" and attacks.
B) 2005 AD: Israel leaves Gaza---> Hamas shouts "Terrorism works!" and attacks.

C) 2008 AD: Israel leaves West bank---> Hamas shouts "Terrorism works!" and attacks.

You seem to be a highly intelligent individual, and you possess a great many facts. Please, analyse what you know. And if I may add...
http://www.alqassam.ps/english/?action=showinet&inid=11
(The official Az-Adeen el Qasam site)

A few snippets:
"If Hamas wanted to recognize "Israel" , we will say it frankly. Hamas does not have the intention to recognize "Israel" at all..."

"Thirdly, the right of return to the Palestinian refugees is to 48 borders and not to 67 borders. We see that the Palestinian refugees should return to their homes in which they were out of since 1948..." (Which basically means, Israel.)

"We are ready to establish that state on less than 67 borders or more than that but that doesn't mean that we will leave the whole land… this is a clear point."
Which I find interesting. They are saying that they will accept any amount of land for a state (The Gaza strip has no more horrible Jews in it...) But on the other hand, they refuse to leave Israel. From the little sense I could make of it, it seems like they want a state of their own, and the ownership of all the lands that they sold, or fled from when Israel was created.



So colonialism and repression causes violence which then must be dealt with by means of more colonisation and repression? Great idea that.


Look at the link I've sent you. It comes from an Official Hamas site. By a quick and very simple analysis of the interview on the site, and the simple cause\effect chart from my reply above, we can deduce that Hamas will most likey shout "Terrorism works" and attack Israel again. (Since it has no intention of recognizing its existence.)
Since Israel has a slight interest in defending itself and its citizens, the logical thing is to put a fair amount of distance between Arabs and Jews.



"Representatives from the Interior Ministry and the Israel Lands Administration accompanied by police razed 17 homes in the unrecognized Bedouin village of Al-Twayil in the Negev on Wednesday.

The village, north of Be'er Sheva, consists of about 50 houses. Residents who lost their homes are considering building a tent city on the site. "


"UN rights panel slams Israel over treatment of Bedouin
The commission called on the government to build adequate infrastructure in unrecognized villages, to cease house demolitions and to stop spraying Bedouin crops with defoliants.



"...that there are over 42,000 illegal buildings in unrecognized Bedouin villages in the Negev..." (a qoute from your first link)

Seriuosly, that makes absolutely no sense.
Note the bold sentences. "Illegal buildings", "Unrecognized villages..."
They're breaking the bloody law mate...
Israel (like many other countries) has a law that states that people need to buy land before they do anything with it (like in oh-so-many other countries).
Bedouins invade those lands, and they are kicked out.


Using your reasoning:
Israel hates and discriminates agains impoverished elderly folk.
Those who can't afford medications, won't have any. If they invade a house (even though it is cold and terrible outside) they will be kicked out.

Now care to point out where I said that Israel is always right?



You said it yourself that Palestine was never a state. As to living through Israeli bombarments, that puts you either in the West Bank, Gaza, Lebanon, or Syria.



Nothing. Smoking is bad for one's health and I would love to see 100.



And what about the harm that the Arabs visited on the Israelis? I mean, with all the suicide attacks against civilians. The Israelis should have reparations from the Arab governments that sponsored such atrocities.



Um yea... It was the Arabs that started the Arab-Israeli War of 1948



Or how about we do not ask you as you are not exactly unbiased yourself.
A the isrealis picked all the fights and had all the support so go **** yourself
we had no options except that, lebanese ande we have more right than they i orginally supported 2state solutions but tnx to the US of A and Isreal no one likes you guys from aound here

It seem some people here have an unexplainable and hateful feeling agains Isreal and the jews... Why ? Because do not know anything and do not want to assume thei own responsibility on some issues between Israel and Palestina...

When Israel state was createad -1948 if I`m not wrong- since that moment arabs start a war against Israel state and what they got as answer was loosing territories only beacuse of being nuts. You really deserve it !!!

im actually being fair i know an isreali and i kNow who they feel abut us its their own version of lesbesranum AND WERE NOT NUTS K WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE ?

racist uncultured retarded simpeltons sit on the peace table or get ******

Wow you're such an intelligent and well mannered person.:rolleyes:

racist uncultured retarded simpeltons sit on the peace table or get ******

get bagels? get a DVD from the "store"?

A the isrealis picked all the fights and had all the support so go **** yourself

They did? WOW! I guess I missed that unprovoked attack in 1948 as the Yom Kipper War as well. Or the massing of troops along the borders done by both Lebanon and Egypt. Yep really picked a fight didn't they! Get your facts straight.

we had no options

OH bull crap. Only a brainwashed fool would say there were no options. There are always options. Problem is, those options require recognizing Israel as a State among States. Something that the Arab League refuses to do. Thank God those in Egypt and Jordan have better sense than you.

except that, lebanese ande we have more right than they

really? That is really stretching things.

i orginally supported 2state solutions but tnx to the US of A and Isreal no one likes you guys from aound here

Oh bull crap again.

racist uncultured retarded simpeltons sit on the peace table or get ******

You have just been reported.

You have just been reported.

Says the banned player using an alt

Says the banned player using an alt

If I was banned, I would not be posting now.

Says the banned player using an alt

An alt? Lol, this isn't EVE.

For the last time, he did NOT get banned. He got DEATed. Big difference.

They did? WOW! I guess I missed that unprovoked attack in 1948 as the Yom Kipper War as well. Or the massing of troops along the borders done by both Lebanon and Egypt. Yep really picked a fight didn't they! Get your facts straight.



OH bull crap. Only a brainwashed fool would say there were no options. There are always options. Problem is, those options require recognizing Israel as a State among States. Something that the Arab League refuses to do. Thank God those in Egypt and Jordan have better sense than you.



really? That is really stretching things.



Oh bull crap again.


look dude they should allow the two state solution giving back all the land not handed to htem by the uN tate would help out the moderates take out hamas and iran in ooine easyt stepk

jordan and egypt need US AID WHICH THEY CANT LIVE Without allrighht so go to hell you nube

I read this story a couple days ago.
I had to stop reading because it just boggled me. O_o
Right when you think you have the human race figured out, someone does something that FLIES in the face of everything you thought you had figured out.

Does not compute.

Wow you're such an intelligent and well mannered person.:rolleyes:

i only isult like this when idiots like you dont know **** so learn from arabs if you whant to criticse arabs k ya manaik

look dude they should allow the two state solution giving back all the land not handed to htem by the uN tate would help out the moderates take out hamas and iran in ooine easyt stepk

I see you have not read the Hamas Constitution. As to Iran, if you believe having 2 states will stop them from their efforts to wipe Israel off the map, you are sadly mistaken. As to the two state solution, remember that UN Partition plan? The Arab League rejected it and launched the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. Five Arab Armies were defeated by the infant Israel. If the Arab League accepted the Partition plan, who knows how history would have turned out.

The Israelis conquered some piece of Arab land. That’s true.

With the help from US and the West. That’s true as well.

So?

In history this happened rather a lot. European criminals, prostitutes and other scum conquered the land from the native indians in US.

The Arabs can do 2 things:

• Fight back.
• Obey and ask nicely for permission to develop some casinos in Gaza

If I was an Arab, I would take my money and bet on the casino thing.

jordan and egypt need US AID WHICH THEY CANT LIVE Without allrighht so go to hell you nube

i only isult like this when idiots like you dont know **** so learn from arabs if you whant to criticse arabs k ya manaik

Both of these posts have been reported. You will get nowhere by insulting posters. Take it from me, I know.

The Israelis conquered some piece of Arab land. That’s true.

With the help from US and the West. That’s true as well.

So?

In history this happened rather a lot. European criminals, prostitutes and other scum conquered the land from the native indians in US.

The Arabs can do 2 things:

• Fight back.
• Obey and ask nicely for permission to develop some casinos in Gaza

If I was an Arab, I would take my money and bet on the casino thing.


Slight flaw in the plan is that the Quran bans gambling.

jordan and egypt need US AID WHICH THEY CANT LIVE Without allrighht so go to hell you nube

Even though I reported this post, I am still going to respond directly to it. 1) Egypt wisened up and signed a peace treaty with Israel in 1979. With this peace treaty, Egypt got the Sinai back that was taken by Israel during the Six Days War. Wow. Jordan signed a peace treaty in 1994. So tell me. What do these treaties have to do with US Aide? Nothing.

Slight flaw in the plan is that the Quran bans gambling.

I know for sure that they enjoy gambling a lot.

The local casinos, here, are loaded with Arabs...

Also, I'm not a Koran expert but maybe they can arrange only the gambling and not play.

The gambling itself is for us, fat white Americans, Europeans and Jews.

I think they would like that idea. Ripping off Western non-believers and Jews isn’t a religious crime, no?

I can see that happening, every Israeli getting hooked on gamblimg. ;)
Seriously, Arabs would make a lot of money if they did that.
/Any/ways...

Both of these posts have been reported. You will get nowhere by insulting posters. Take it from me, I know.

If theres one thing generally despised, its a whining tout. just because you got binned is no reason to try and get everyone else the same treatment. If you are going to report posts, do so in the appropriate section and kindly make no mention of it in the relevant thread. Its disruptive, off-topic and in itself could be considered flame-bait/trolling.

If theres one thing generally despised, its a whining tout. just because you got binned is no reason to try and get everyone else the same treatment. If you are going to report posts, do so in the appropriate section and kindly make no mention of it in the relevant thread. Its disruptive, off-topic and in itself could be considered flame-bait/trolling.
Indeed.

If theres one thing generally despised, its a whining tout. just because you got binned is no reason to try and get everyone else the same treatment. If you are going to report posts, do so in the appropriate section and kindly make no mention of it in the relevant thread. Its disruptive, off-topic and in itself could be considered flame-bait/trolling.

I did report it. I reported it in moderation. Take a look for yourself.

Everybody, SHUT UP.
Nobody came here to talk about this, and we'll stop NOW.
If you want to keep clawing at each other, do it on PM or whatever, okay? Okay. :rolleyes:

I did report it. I reported it in moderation. Take a look for yourself.

Reported.

I see you have not read the Hamas Constitution. As to Iran, if you believe having 2 states will stop them from their efforts to wipe Israel off the map, you are sadly mistaken. As to the two state solution, remember that UN Partition plan? The Arab League rejected it and launched the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. Five Arab Armies were defeated by the infant Israel. If the Arab League accepted the Partition plan, who knows how history would have turned out.

You said that before, but I must add that Menachem Begin rejected UN Resolution 181 as well.

Yet the Arab league repealed it because most of the useful soil was going to jewish settlers, and the Arabs got a piece of desert, while there were 67% Arabs and 33% Jews in the area. 67% and 33% = 50% and 50% ?? Of course they rejected it. It simply was an unfair treaty. And hundreds of thousands of Palestinian refugees would flee to the neighbour Arab countries, causing resource and housing problems there.

You said that before, but I must add that Menachem Begin rejected UN Resolution 181 as well.

Yet the Arab league repealed it because most of the useful soil was going to jewish settlers, and the Arabs got a piece of desert, while there were 67% Arabs and 33% Jews in the area. 67% and 33% = 50% and 50% ?? Of course they rejected it. It simply was an unfair treaty. And hundreds of thousands of Palestinian refugees would flee to the neighbour Arab countries, causing resource and housing problems there.

And the other countries have done nothing for the refugees and they tried to unseat the king of Jordan and were thrown out of Jordan even after Jordan let them in the first time. Even Syria admits that they were responsible for the Palestinian refugee problem.

Oh and UN Resolution 181 deals with South African Apartheid.

You said that before, but I must add that Menachem Begin rejected UN Resolution 181 as well.

Yet the Arab league repealed it because most of the useful soil was going to jewish settlers, and the Arabs got a piece of desert, while there were 67% Arabs and 33% Jews in the area. 67% and 33% = 50% and 50% ?? Of course they rejected it. It simply was an unfair treaty. And hundreds of thousands of Palestinian refugees would flee to the neighbour Arab countries, causing resource and housing problems there.

The Arabs caused the refugee problem themselfs. Palestenians sat on the Gaza strip and were refused entry into Eygpt. The Arabs wanted to keep them there so they could show the world how horrible Israelis are, which is why they forced them to stay in the camps. Not because they actually cared for them. And sure, Arabs may not have gotten the useful soil, but who do you think cultivated that useful soil? The Jewish settlers turned the country from all desert to only partly desert.

I did report it. I reported it in moderation. Take a look for yourself.

You either need to reread the post, or stop taking the piss. Thats three times you've mentioned it in the thread. If you want to whine about the fact that you were disciplined and are setting up a "But I complained when he said and he wasn't..." please take it elsewhere.

The Arabs caused the refugee problem themselfs. Palestenians sat on the Gaza strip and were refused entry into Eygpt. The Arabs wanted to keep them there so they could show the world how horrible Israelis are, which is why they forced them to stay in the camps. Not because they actually cared for them. And sure, Arabs may not have gotten the useful soil, but who do you think cultivated that useful soil? The Jewish settlers turned the country from all desert to only partly desert.

Nonsense. Gaza was seized from Egypt with the Palestinian refugees from 1948 in situ. The whole 'useful soil' crap is a myth which ignores that over 77-80%% of agricultural produce in 1946 was from Arab land.

Oh and UN Resolution 181 deals with South African Apartheid.

Nope.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_UN_Partition_Plan

The Arabs wanted to keep them there so they could show the world how horrible Israelis are, which is why they forced them to stay in the camps.

speculation. Source ?

Slight flaw in the plan is that the Quran bans gambling.

It also bans the consumption of alcohol, but I'm told that Palestinian beer is very good.

Nope.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_UN_Partition_Plan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolutions_101_to_200

181 7 August 1963 9-0-2 (abstentions: France, United Kingdom) South African apartheid:

United Nations Security Council Resolution 181, adopted on August 7, 1963, concerned with an arms build-up by the Republic of South Africa and worried that those arms might be used to further the racial conflict in that country the Council called upon the Government of South Africa to abandon its policy of apartheid and called upon all States to cease the sale and shipment of all arms, ammunition and other martial equipment to South Africa.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_181

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolutions_101_to_200



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_181

Well yeah, I referred to the General Assembly ;)

this has to be the most ironic story i have seen in ages

Well yeah, I referred to the General Assembly ;)

He He! Point taken but next time...specify :D

It also bans the consumption of alcohol, but I'm told that Palestinian beer is very good.

Palestinian =/= Muslim (necessarily)...

As for the rest of the thread... I won't even bother...