NationStates Jolt Archive


U.S. workers are most productive.

Greater Valia
10-09-2007, 05:27
Source (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gURr_MR-Wtuq2-T70HLknZGGD6Ng)

GENEVA (AP) — American workers stay longer in the office, at the factory or on the farm than their counterparts in Europe and most other rich nations, and they produce more per person over the year.

They also get more done per hour than everyone but the Norwegians, according to a U.N. report released Monday, which said the United States "leads the world in labor productivity."

The average U.S. worker produces $63,885 of wealth per year, more than their counterparts in all other countries, the International Labor Organization said in its report. Ireland comes in second at $55,986, followed by Luxembourg at $55,641, Belgium at $55,235 and France at $54,609.

The productivity figure is found by dividing the country's gross domestic product by the number of people employed. The U.N. report is based on 2006 figures for many countries, or the most recent available.

Only part of the U.S. productivity growth, which has outpaced that of many other developed economies, can be explained by the longer hours Americans are putting in, the ILO said.

The U.S., according to the report, also beats all 27 nations in the European Union, Japan and Switzerland in the amount of wealth created per hour of work — a second key measure of productivity.

Norway, which is not an EU member, generates the most output per working hour, $37.99, a figure inflated by the country's billions of dollars in oil exports and high prices for goods at home. The U.S. is second at $35.63, about a half dollar ahead of third-place France.

Seven years ago, French workers produced over a dollar more on average than their American counterparts. The country led the U.S. in hourly productivity from 1994 to 2003.

The U.S. employee put in an average 1,804 hours of work in 2006, the report said. That compared with 1,407.1 hours for the Norwegian worker and 1,564.4 for the French.

It pales, however, in comparison with the annual hours worked per person in Asia, where seven economies — South Korea, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Hong Kong, China, Malaysia and Thailand — surpassed 2,200 average hours per worker. But those countries had lower productivity rates.

America's increased productivity "has to do with the ICT (information and communication technologies) revolution, with the way the U.S. organizes companies, with the high level of competition in the country, with the extension of trade and investment abroad," said Jose Manuel Salazar, the ILO's head of employment.

The ILO report warned that the widening of the gap between leaders such as the U.S. and poorer nations has been even more dramatic.

Laborers from regions such as southeast Asia, Latin America and the Middle East have the potential to create more wealth but are being held back by a lack of investment in training, equipment and technology, the agency said.

In sub-Saharan Africa, workers are only about one-twelfth as productive as those in developed countries, the report said.

"The huge gap in productivity and wealth is cause for great concern," ILO Director-General Juan Somavia said, adding that it was important to raise productivity levels of the lowest-paid workers in the world's poorest countries.

China and other East Asian countries are catching up quickest with Western countries. Productivity in the region has doubled in the past decade and is accelerating faster than anywhere else, the report said.

But they still have a long way to go: Workers in East Asia are still only about one-fifth as productive as laborers in industrialized countries.

The vast differences among China's sectors tell part of the story. Whereas a Chinese industrial worker produces $12,642 worth of output — almost eight times more than in 1980 — a laborer in the farm and fisheries sector contributes a paltry $910 to gross domestic product.

The difference is much less pronounced in the United States, where a manufacturing employee produced an unprecedented $104,606 of value in 2005. An American farm laborer, meanwhile, created $52,585 worth of output, down 10 percent from seven years ago, when U.S. agricultural productivity peaked.

USA! USA! USA!

On a more serious note, why do you think this is? I'll admit I was surprised when I read this. I would have thought that a nation like the Japanese would have topped the list.
Kiryu-shi
10-09-2007, 05:31
My first inclination is to suspect fabrication.



And then slight worry, cause if USAmerican's are the most productive people in the world, the world is screwed. And then look up the various definitions of the word "productive", just to be sure.
Andaras Prime
10-09-2007, 05:39
I suspect your source is false.

Either way, crony capitalism ftl
Posi
10-09-2007, 05:40
I dunno. But the part about Norway seemed to suggest bias.

I wonder what the results would be like if the included figures for the black markets in each country.
Marrakech II
10-09-2007, 05:44
And then slight worry, cause if USAmerican's are the most productive people in the world, the world is screwed. And then look up the various definitions of the word "productive", just to be sure.

Take some time and travel a bit. You would be surprised at how most of the world lives. America for a nation it's size is very advanced. From what I have seen most of the world lives in less then desirable conditions then what Americans or their Canadian, European, Australian and Japanese counterparts are used to. This is due directly to corruption and work ethics. As far as being the most productive. It is probably true given our economy.
Greater Valia
10-09-2007, 05:45
I suspect your source is false.
Funny. Its covered by all major news outlets, and yet you declare its false because it doesn't conform to your world view.

Either way, crony capitalism ftl
:rolleyes:

I dunno. But the part about Norway seemed to suggest bias.
Agreed.

I wonder what the results would be like if the included figures for the black markets in each country.
I don't think it would change that much because of the massive drug trade here. Although CIS nations, Russia, Africa, etc. would probably see a jump in the rankings.
Trotskylvania
10-09-2007, 05:48
I suspect your source is false.

Either way, crony capitalism ftl

Okay, AP, let's go back to Socialism 101

Productivity is the ratio of labor to labor power, that is to say the ratio of labor done to the wage of the laborer.

Therefore, higher productivity means a greater level of economic exploitation. You, as a Marxist-Leninst, should've recognized this.
Kiryu-shi
10-09-2007, 05:50
Take some time and travel a bit. You would be surprised at how most of the world lives. America for a nation it's size is very advanced. From what I have seen most of the world lives in less then desirable conditions then what Americans or their Canadian, European, Australian and Japanese counterparts are used to. This is due directly to corruption and work ethics. As far as being the most productive. It is probably true given our economy.

I realize that America is much more advanced than most of the world; my shock came from the fact that I've been to Japan many, many times, and it feels like they kill themselves over their work way more than Americans. America is advanced, for sure, but I would have guessed Japanese people worked harder and are more productive, by far.
NERVUN
10-09-2007, 05:50
I would have thought that a nation like the Japanese would have topped the list.
Japanese work an insane amount of hours, but there's a question about how much is actually getting done during those hours and how much is looking busy because of the society requires you to never leave before the boss.
Greater Valia
10-09-2007, 05:52
Japanese work an insane amount of hours, but there's a question about how much is actually getting done during those hours and how much is looking busy because of the society requires you to never leave before the boss.

So they basically just try to look busy without actually accomplishing much? Sounds like my old job...
Marrakech II
10-09-2007, 05:53
I realize that America is much more advanced than most of the world; my shock came from the fact that I've been to Japan many, many times, and it feels like they kill themselves over their work way more than Americans. America is advanced, for sure, but I would have guessed Japanese people worked harder and are more productive, by far.

I have been to Japan also but not for very long. A possible explanation is women in the workforce? American women may work more then their Japanese counterparts. That is just a guess but maybe someone that has more experience in Japan could tell me if that is true or not. The productivity measure is for the adult populace I would imagine.
Kiryu-shi
10-09-2007, 05:56
I have been to Japan also but not for very long. A possible explanation is women in the workforce? American women may work more then their Japanese counterparts. That is just a guess but maybe someone that has more experience in Japan could tell me if that is true or not. The productivity measure is for the adult populace I would imagine.

*points at NERVUN's post above yours*

Also, I thought of that a bit, but women are starting to join the work force more and more these days, I think... It's why marriage rates are going down, the amounts of kids are plummeting, no one has families anymore, and Japanese society is crumbling to the ground. Or so my grandfather raves.
The PeoplesFreedom
10-09-2007, 05:57
You do realize that the competition in Corporate America is fierce right? If you don't get enough done, than somebody else who does more work than you will get the job.
NERVUN
10-09-2007, 06:27
So they basically just try to look busy without actually accomplishing much? Sounds like my old job...
Well, those I have talked to who work in the various companies and my own experiance with teachers is more that both Americans and Japanese do about the same amount of work, it's just that the Japanese tend to space it out over quite a bit more time.
NERVUN
10-09-2007, 06:29
*points at NERVUN's post above yours*

Also, I thought of that a bit, but women are starting to join the work force more and more these days, I think... It's why marriage rates are going down, the amounts of kids are plummeting, no one has families anymore, and Japanese society is crumbling to the ground. Or so my grandfather raves.
They are joining, but the majority are still quiting once they get married and have a child.

Or so Abe is raving. ;)
IDF
10-09-2007, 06:31
You do realize that the competition in Corporate America is fierce right? If you don't get enough done, than somebody else who does more work than you will get the job.

Very true. If you beat your projected numbers, you get a nice bonus. Reason #1 I love Capitalism.
NERVUN
10-09-2007, 06:32
OMG!!! :eek:

We need to send Japanese men over to help repopulate Japan! I volunteer for this odious task... WHO's WITH ME?!
I'm working on it! I'm working on it! My wife's due in two weeks, so I'm working on it!
JuNii
10-09-2007, 06:33
*points at NERVUN's post above yours*

Also, I thought of that a bit, but women are starting to join the work force more and more these days, I think... It's why marriage rates are going down, the amounts of kids are plummeting, no one has families anymore, and Japanese society is crumbling to the ground. Or so my grandfather raves.

OMG!!! :eek:

We need to send Japanese men over to help repopulate Japan! I volunteer for this odious task... WHO's WITH ME?!
CthulhuFhtagn
10-09-2007, 06:36
Well, they work like fifteen more hours a week than pretty much any of the other listed countries, so yes, total productivity would be higher.
Jeruselem
10-09-2007, 06:36
If this is all true, maybe the US employers should read it - considering they are ones shipping US jobs to China.
New Illuve
10-09-2007, 06:50
This is hardly surprising considering the working conditions (in a wide sense of the word) between the US and the EU. Here in the Netherlands, I work a 36 hour work week, get 24 days paid vacation every year (plus I tend to take my overtime as time off rather than as extra money), 5 paid holidays, work related stress is openly discussed and dealt with between the employer and the employees (either the unions or worker representative organizations within the company), ....

Yeah - TFA said that the difference can only be partly explained by the number of hours worked, but the rest can probably be explained by the mentality of people. I definitely work to live, not live to work. I have no problems telling my boss that. I also look at my quality of life and my balance between work, my relationship, and my private life and try not to let any one of those dominate the other.

Meh - just how important is this worker productivity figure anyway? Knowing what it was like when I was still living in the US and comparing it how it is now that I'm living over here I'll take the work environment over here in the Netherlands hand down.

Less salary, less take home pay - but less worries, less stress and a much better life over all.
Andaras Prime
10-09-2007, 07:02
* Spits *

Gosh I hate that cold heartless utilitarianism that runs the US.
Andaras Prime
10-09-2007, 07:02
Cold heartless utilitarianism makes me happy in my pants.

I'd take virtue over utility any day, it's easy to call yourself a patriot when so well off.
The South Islands
10-09-2007, 07:03
* Spits *

Gosh I hate that cold heartless utilitarianism that runs the US.

Cold heartless utilitarianism makes me happy in my pants.
Non Aligned States
10-09-2007, 07:04
Very true. If you beat your projected numbers, you get a nice bonus. Reason #1 I love Capitalism.

Uncontrolled capitalism however, leads to things like old, loyal and productive employees getting sacked for fresh faces because it costs less to pay them.

And you can also demand veteran level productivity and threaten them with the boot if they don't provide.
JuNii
10-09-2007, 08:53
I'm working on it! I'm working on it! My wife's due in two weeks, so I'm working on it!

Keep on pumping man! :p

(TG sent)
JuNii
10-09-2007, 08:55
Uncontrolled capitalism however, leads to things like old, loyal and productive employees getting sacked for fresh faces because it costs less to pay them.

And you can also demand veteran level productivity and threaten them with the boot if they don't provide.

Or threaten to ship their job overseas where people are in vitrual sweatshops, working 20+ hours a day for pennies.

Yep. the US is a cruel, cold place. :rolleyes:
Naturality
10-09-2007, 09:14
Yeah .. it's just great dropping over from a stress induced heart attack at 55.


I'm with the .. ahh who the hell is it.. In Europe somewhere .. quite a few places. ...saw it on travel channel ....they take a break in the afternoon .. to eat lunch or siesta.. whatever .. (Which I don't think I'd want to do that.. cause then I wouldn't want to go back to work lol -- but maybe it would be cool). Switzerland I think was one.. oooh and somewhere in Italy.. It was actually quite a few places. Some would take a long break to eat at home and rest for a good bit , then return. you know if you live that way.. you are pretty laid back.. these people lived to be old as hell too..one place was some old place in maybe Sicily? I can't remember exactly, but thye were trying to find out why they lived so long.. they all drank too. Wine I suppose which is very good for you, if you don't drink it to get shit faced.
Seathornia
10-09-2007, 10:13
I saw two figures at the beginning that they were using.

And I disagree with both of them.

The first figure was that they spend a shitload of time at the office, factory, etc... But then it has to be remembered that you can never be sure that people are actually working.

The second figure was what they are producing in terms of wealth. However, that is wholly subjective and, to state an example, I got a blowgun for the measly price of 1-2$ from Thailand (it was a gift). The blowgun was good enough to be worth 10x as much. It would probably be 100x more valuable in the US. Therefore, subjective and not actually really stating what people produce.

These two figures are possible to use, but I find them weak, which means the US could be the most productive, but so could everyone else.
Splintered Yootopia
10-09-2007, 10:16
USA! USA! USA!

On a more serious note, why do you think this is? I'll admit I was surprised when I read this.
Almost total mechanisation of factories, and the extremely odd statistics given. How do you rate the value of a product in absolute terms?

A ring made of recycled binbags might have a production cost of ten cents, but if you sell it for fifty dollars, then what?

Does that make the total goods value from that ring ten cents, or a much more impressive fifty dollars?
I would have thought that a nation like the Japanese would have topped the list.
Japan?

Methinks not at all. Their car plants have all been moved to places with a cheaper workforce, like India.
Splintered Yootopia
10-09-2007, 10:19
* Spits *

Gosh I hate that cold heartless utilitarianism that runs the US.
It hates you back, and takes your parents' money so that you can say this on the internet.
I'd take virtue over utility any day, it's easy to call yourself a patriot when so well off.
Don't worry, I'm sure you'll grow up into middle management, you seem that kind of guy to me.
Lunatic Goofballs
10-09-2007, 10:34
*points at NERVUN's post above yours*

Also, I thought of that a bit, but women are starting to join the work force more and more these days, I think... It's why marriage rates are going down, the amounts of kids are plummeting, no one has families anymore, and Japanese society is crumbling to the ground. Or so my grandfather raves.

He needs to get laid. :)
Extreme Ironing
10-09-2007, 11:49
In a way, it doesn't surprise me, the American capitalist model is well known, and I'd like to think we in Europe suffer from less stress-related illnesses. But I am also sceptical at how the figures were measured and calculated.
Andaras Prime
10-09-2007, 12:08
It hates you back, and takes your parents' money so that you can say this on the internet.

Don't worry, I'm sure you'll grow up into middle management, you seem that kind of guy to me.
I actually plan higher than that, but I plan to use my degree for a positive purpose like the public service. You should not confuse doing well with doing good.
Corneliu 2
10-09-2007, 12:23
Source (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gURr_MR-Wtuq2-T70HLknZGGD6Ng)



USA! USA! USA!

On a more serious note, why do you think this is? I'll admit I was surprised when I read this. I would have thought that a nation like the Japanese would have topped the list.

Because unlike most other nations, we are not socialist. We actually believe in hard work.
Andaras Prime
10-09-2007, 12:27
Because unlike most other nations, we are not socialist. We actually believe in hard work.

Exploitation you mean.
Corneliu 2
10-09-2007, 12:28
You do realize that the competition in Corporate America is fierce right? If you don't get enough done, than somebody else who does more work than you will get the job.

Or defeats you in the revenue department :D
Corneliu 2
10-09-2007, 12:40
* Spits *

Gosh I hate that cold heartless utilitarianism that runs the US.

Utilitarianism? You do realize that most companies are owned by individual citizens in the terms of stock right? No single company is runned by one person. Most companies are runned by multiple people which is further divided with other people running those sections of the company as well. This is what we love to call a chain of command. There maybe a person incharge of a company but each section has their own managers.
Corneliu 2
10-09-2007, 12:41
I'd take virtue over utility any day, it's easy to call yourself a patriot when so well off.

Then explain the "patriotism" of the USSR when they were not at all well off.
Schopfergeist
10-09-2007, 12:43
*points at NERVUN's post above yours*

Also, I thought of that a bit, but women are starting to join the work force more and more these days, I think... It's why marriage rates are going down, the amounts of kids are plummeting, no one has families anymore, and Japanese society is crumbling to the ground. Or so my grandfather raves.

Japan is fine, and their birthrate, while low now, will inevitably return to normal levels. One must remember that technology is reducing the need for mass numbers of laborers. Additionally, Japan will not have the ethnic and religious turmoils.
Corneliu 2
10-09-2007, 12:45
Exploitation you mean.

Hard work =/= exploitation. Now the USSR on the other hand exploited its workers for all they're worth.
NERVUN
10-09-2007, 12:57
Japan is fine, and their birthrate, while low now, will inevitably return to normal levels. One must remember that technology is reducing the need for mass numbers of laborers. Additionally, Japan will not have the ethnic and religious turmoils.
Um... actually, Japan is not fine. There's a massive aging society with the issue of who is going to support both the pensions of such, and take care of them. Given that Japan still needs labors, Japan is already facing have to open up more to immigration, with the resulting backlash of xenophobia that brings.
Lunatic Goofballs
10-09-2007, 13:02
It's as I suspected; Cheeseburgers make you harder workers. :)
Rambhutan
10-09-2007, 13:10
Do the figures take account of the amount of the work done in the US being done by 'illegal' Mexicans who probably are not counted as part of the US workforce?
The Infinite Dunes
10-09-2007, 13:10
Of course the US is the most productive country in the West. The US doesn't have legally enforced vacation time and it either has a crappy minimum wage or none at all.

Thanks, but I'd rather stick to my 40-hour week thankyouverymuch - life is about more than work.
Corneliu 2
10-09-2007, 13:15
Of course the US is the most productive country in the West. The US doesn't have legally enforced vacation time and it either has a crappy minimum wage or none at all.

Thanks, but I'd rather stick to my 40-hour week thankyouverymuch - life is about more than work.

I intend to agree but then, not everyone works 40 hours. Some work less than that. As to minimum wage, we do have it and it varies from state to state.
Lunatic Goofballs
10-09-2007, 13:15
Do the figures take account of the amount of the work done in the US being done by 'illegal' Mexicans who probably are not counted as part of the US workforce?

I like you. You're silly. ;)
Lunatic Goofballs
10-09-2007, 13:26
I intend to agree but then, not everyone works 40 hours. Some work less than that. As to minimum wage, we do have it and it varies from state to state.

Well, I messed around with the numbers a bit.

1804 hours per year divided by 40 hours a week equals 45.1 standard 40 hour work weeks per year(out of 52).

Or 1804 hours per year divided by 52 equals 34.7 hours per week. That's not factoring in vacation or holidays. If I can find the statistics on how many days per year the averag american works, I can fine tune that.
The_pantless_hero
10-09-2007, 13:27
Um... actually, Japan is not fine. There's a massive aging society with the issue of who is going to support both the pensions of such, and take care of them. Given that Japan still needs labors, Japan is already facing have to open up more to immigration, with the resulting backlash of xenophobia that brings.
They'll just build robots.
Wheelibinia
10-09-2007, 13:59
My Uncle, after graduating from University in England, went to work for IBM in California, developing relational database technology. After a while, he realised that every member of the team was from one european country or another. He asked the boss how come there were no americans in the team, considering this was a flagship US company. The boss explained that, in his experience, the americans put in long hours, and worked hard, and would steadily produce good products on schedule. However, he found that, although his team of Brits and Swedes would work less hours and sod about, at the end of the day they were capable of working at a much higher intellectual intensity that would produce an utterly brilliant product in the same time for a lower cost.
Law Abiding Criminals
10-09-2007, 14:12
Of course the US is the most productive country in the West. The US doesn't have legally enforced vacation time and it either has a crappy minimum wage or none at all.

Thanks, but I'd rather stick to my 40-hour week thankyouverymuch - life is about more than work.

The Department of Homeland Security will be coming over to your place to "talk" very shortly. Please don't go anywhere.

Oh, and if you're not in the U.S., we'll be sending the Marines over soon.

Seriously, though, there's a reason Americans are more productive than Europeans, Canadians, and Japanese - we never take a damn vacation. I've heard that a quarter of all American workers who have vacation time never take a day of it. And then there are those who come to work sick, grieving, or skip family trips because of job demands. My wife and her mom just took a vacation, and I couldn't go because of work. (Never mind that I have a fairly cushy job...I still deal with idiots, so it's not all roses.)

Just a heads-up, I don't have a source for that statistic I quoted other than a commercial for Universal Studios. I imagine, though, that I'm really not far off.
Peepelonia
10-09-2007, 14:17
The Department of Homeland Security will be coming over to your place to "talk" very shortly. Please don't go anywhere.

Oh, and if you're not in the U.S., we'll be sending the Marines over soon.

Seriously, though, there's a reason Americans are more productive than Europeans, Canadians, and Japanese - we never take a damn vacation. I've heard that a quarter of all American workers who have vacation time never take a day of it. And then there are those who come to work sick, grieving, or skip family trips because of job demands. My wife and her mom just took a vacation, and I couldn't go because of work. (Never mind that I have a fairly cushy job...I still deal with idiots, so it's not all roses.)

Just a heads-up, I don't have a source for that statistic I quoted other than a commercial for Universal Studios. I imagine, though, that I'm really not far off.

Then by that reconing, it would seem that Americans must also be the most stressed? I wonder what the rate of heart attack is?
Dakini
10-09-2007, 14:23
Because unlike most other nations, we are not socialist. We actually believe in hard work.
Yes, you believe in hard work. All the time. Until you retire with a small pension and quietly go to die in a second rate nursing home.

Man, I wish Canada was more like Europe.
Khadgar
10-09-2007, 14:31
I suspect your source is false.

Either way, crony capitalism ftl

I actually plan higher than that, but I plan to use my degree for a positive purpose like the public service. You should not confuse doing well with doing good.

Hey look you're another ignorant upper middle class internet "communist". Your entire life is built on the fruits of capitalism, and you use your wealth and position to spit on those who earned your cushy life.

You're pathetic and you lack any measure of respect or wisdom.
Dakini
10-09-2007, 14:37
Hey look you're another ignorant upper middle class internet "communist". Your entire life is built on the fruits of capitalism, and you use your wealth and position to spit on those who earned your cushy life.

You're pathetic and you lack any measure of respect or wisdom.
How do you know the guy's upper middle class?
Tarlag
10-09-2007, 14:42
The Department of Homeland Security will be coming over to your place to "talk" very shortly. Please don't go anywhere.

Oh, and if you're not in the U.S., we'll be sending the Marines over soon.

Seriously, though, there's a reason Americans are more productive than Europeans, Canadians, and Japanese - we never take a damn vacation. I've heard that a quarter of all American workers who have vacation time never take a day of it. And then there are those who come to work sick, grieving, or skip family trips because of job demands. My wife and her mom just took a vacation, and I couldn't go because of work. (Never mind that I have a fairly cushy job...I still deal with idiots, so it's not all roses.)

Just a heads-up, I don't have a source for that statistic I quoted other than a commercial for Universal Studios. I imagine, though, that I'm really not far off.


I was on the 50-60 hour work week never take a vacation tred mill. I then went to the Doctor and was told I was on the road to a stroke or heart attack which ever came first. So I made a change, dropped the retail management job and went to work for a European company (Aldis) and never looked back. I now work 25-40 hours a week take my 2 weeks vacation (soon to be 3) and all my holiday and personal days and have never felt better.
When I am at work I have discovered I am far more productive then I ever have been and I actually like going to my job for the first time in twenty years.
Khadgar
10-09-2007, 14:45
How do you know the guy's upper middle class?

Fits the pattern. I suppose he could be a sneering son of a coal miner, but I find that incredibly unlikely. Plus the fact that he's a communist in college, which means he's probably never been exposed to the working world, and certainly never earn his own paycheck. That means he's never held a job, there are few people who are from a working class background who can afford college without working their asses off.
Law Abiding Criminals
10-09-2007, 14:52
Then by that reconing, it would seem that Americans must also be the most stressed? I wonder what the rate of heart attack is?

I have three words for the answer to that question: too damn high.
Copiosa Scotia
10-09-2007, 14:58
So they basically just try to look busy without actually accomplishing much? Sounds like my old job...

I think this is pretty much universal.
Corneliu 2
10-09-2007, 15:01
Yes, you believe in hard work. All the time. Until you retire with a small pension and quietly go to die in a second rate nursing home.

I plan on dying at home with my family around me.
Rambhutan
10-09-2007, 15:02
I have seen it argued in the UK that we are less productive than other European countries because we have fewer holidays.
Law Abiding Criminals
10-09-2007, 15:53
I plan on dying at home with my family around me.

Too bad not everyone has that opportunity. Or too bad that lots of people in America will never get the chance to retire, to a second-rate nursing home or otherwise, because they are mired in poverty their entire lives, or they lose everything to some sort of economic of natural disaster, or whatever else.

And then there are those who wrap themselves up in work their entire lives that they never end up retiring due either to a stress-induced heart attack or an addiction to work that lasts well into their golden years. These are the people who work 80+ hours a week, bring in big money, and never see their kids or take a vacation day in twenty years, and the kind that come into work and put in far more than a full day despite being sick with God-knows-what. The kind who get into a wreck on their way to work, and their only thought is, "OH SHIT, I'M GOING TO BE LATE!"

Hollywood crams down our throats a culture of "Don't let work take over your life, spend time with those who are more important, your job isn't everything, no one ever said on their deathbed that they wished they spent more time at the office..." and corporate America fights back with the opposite. Corporate America is winning big, and people see Hollywood's sappy message in movies and turn around and ignore it.

And I'm sure taht plenty of people have said on their deathbeds that they wish they'd worked harder. And I don't just mean lazy, shiftless people.
Corneliu 2
10-09-2007, 16:01
People do not tend to take hollywood seriously. I know I don't.
The Infinite Dunes
10-09-2007, 16:21
Too bad not everyone has that opportunity. Or too bad that lots of people in America will never get the chance to retire, to a second-rate nursing home or otherwise, because they are mired in poverty their entire lives, or they lose everything to some sort of economic of natural disaster, or whatever else.

And then there are those who wrap themselves up in work their entire lives that they never end up retiring due either to a stress-induced heart attack or an addiction to work that lasts well into their golden years. These are the people who work 80+ hours a week, bring in big money, and never see their kids or take a vacation day in twenty years, and the kind that come into work and put in far more than a full day despite being sick with God-knows-what. The kind who get into a wreck on their way to work, and their only thought is, "OH SHIT, I'M GOING TO BE LATE!"

Hollywood crams down our throats a culture of "Don't let work take over your life, spend time with those who are more important, your job isn't everything, no one ever said on their deathbed that they wished they spent more time at the office..." and corporate America fights back with the opposite. Corporate America is winning big, and people see Hollywood's sappy message in movies and turn around and ignore it.

And I'm sure taht plenty of people have said on their deathbeds that they wish they'd worked harder. And I don't just mean lazy, shiftless people.I wouldn't mind carrying on working until the day I died. A nice part time job would be quite nice. Something to enjoy doing though, rather than a money maker.
Ultraviolent Radiation
10-09-2007, 16:51
On a more serious note, why do you think this is? I'll admit I was surprised when I read this. I would have thought that a nation like the Japanese would have topped the list.

Well, depends what we mean by productive. I would assume that 'more productive' means they produce more. It says nothing about what is produced. Flags, 'Happy Meal' toys, Paris Hiltons... I expect the US produces these in greater quantities than the Japanese.
Law Abiding Criminals
10-09-2007, 18:02
I wouldn't mind carrying on working until the day I died. A nice part time job would be quite nice. Something to enjoy doing though, rather than a money maker.

It's one thing to have something part-time to have something to do, rather than because you need the money or absolutely have to keep on working. I see lots of people doing that, and frankly, I could see myself doing that in 50 years as well.

It's quite another for people to work well into senility because they need the money (and many still have a poor quality of life...it's a choice between living in a tenantry with no amenities, eating bread and water, and never doing anything on your days off versus starving/freezing to death) or because they're simply addicted to work (I've heard of cases where people will continue their jobs simply because their doctor tells them that, if they don't, the change will kill them, although these are the types of people who would continue it anyway because they basically live to work.)

What's unfortunate is the cases of working just to stay alive at age 80 or working because of an addiction to work.
Law Abiding Criminals
10-09-2007, 18:07
People do not tend to take hollywood seriously. I know I don't.

It's one thing not to take Hollywood seriously. It's quite another for an entire nation to see the same message in countless movies repeatedly and then go out and do the exact opposite. And it's the one case where they do. Grow up, get married, and reproduce? Americans tend to do that, or at least try. Play sports to improve self-esteem? Check. But when it comes to taking some time to slow down and enjoy life? Hold the phone on that, Sparky. I've got two big projects due a week from next Thursday, and I'm sorry, sweetie, but the vacatio's cancelled. The boss just scheduled some major work time for that week. And I won't be home a whole lot for about the next four months; we're all pulling extra-long days to get this all finished.

And then the cycle begins all over again a few months later. And again, and again until the poor, overworked guy's wife leaves him and takes the kids, and he dies of a stress-induced heart attack, all the while regretting on his deathbed that he didn't work harder and get ahead.
Greater Valia
12-09-2007, 09:01
Of course the US is the most productive country in the West. The US doesn't have legally enforced vacation time and it either has a crappy minimum wage or none at all.
While its true we don't have legally enforced vacation, but I've never had a job where I didn't get any. In fact, I don't know anybody who doesn't get vacation. Secondly, we do have a minimum wage, and while it is crappy it is extremely rare to find a job that pays only minimum wage. The only job I had that paid minimum wage was bagging groceries at Kroger.

Click me for more information about vacation in the US (http://www.vault.com/nr/newsmain.jsp?nr_page=3&ch_id=402&article_id=51638&cat_id=1101)

Thanks, but I'd rather stick to my 40-hour week thankyouverymuch - life is about more than work.
We too have a 40 hour work week, and anyone that chooses to work more than that is paid overtime.

Well, depends what we mean by productive. I would assume that 'more productive' means they produce more. It says nothing about what is produced. Flags, 'Happy Meal' toys, Paris Hiltons... I expect the US produces these in greater quantities than the Japanese.
I can't tell whether you're being sarcastic, or serious, but I'll answer this like a serious question.

US commodity exports (source (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html)): agricultural products (soybeans, fruit, corn) 9.2%, industrial supplies (organic chemicals) 26.8%, capital goods (transistors, aircraft, motor vehicle parts, computers, telecommunications equipment) 49.0%, consumer goods (automobiles, medicines) 15.0% (2003)