NationStates Jolt Archive

Here's the story, I was at soccer practice for my school team last Thursday. I myself am a junior and was sitting with a few other juniors and sophmores before practice began. The JV and Varsity season has been going on for a few weeks but the freshman team's tryouts were going on last week.

While we were waiting for practice to start we came up with an idea for a prank. The freshman were all out running and we were going to go down and X all of their backpacks. For those who don't know, that means take the stuff out, turn the backpacks inside out and putting the stuff back in. So we went down, did that and watched as they came back and found all of their stuff. They looked confused at first but then they were laughing.

Fastforward to Friday and our coach has everyone who was involved come talk to him. Out of the 8 or 9 who were involved only myself and 3 others talked to him. He tells us that the board of administrators has been calling him all day about a complaint from a parent, that we couldn't play in our game that day and that if it gets to human resources that we could be kicked off the team and suspended. After we heard that we ran over to the freshman tryouts and apologized to the kids who said had their backpacks X'd but they all said that they thought the prank was funny.

So my question is, do you think this is serious enough to deserve suspension and being kicked off the team?

Probably just the school trying to appease one or two parents and/or save their own asses from a lawsuit.

Serious? Hell, no. Only in public schools, could this ever be taken seriously. And then only by the most thin-skinned parents.

On the other hand, if your public school has some stupid zero-tolerance, zero-intelligence rule about hazing, you're probably in trouble.

You're a jr and you bahve like that? You deserve it frankly

the coach is just trying to scare you and its worked so you should take up a more manly sport like darts

though this X thing is...er very after school math club really

You're a jr and you bahve like that? You deserve it frankly

*puts your backpack inside out*

Don't mess with other people's things. It's impolite, although being an ass shouldn't earn you a suspension. (Not to say that it won't)

Don't mess with other people's things. It's impolite, although being an ass shouldn't earn you a suspension. (Not to say that it won't)

Though mildly annoying, having your bag turned inside out actually cleans it.

You're a jr and you bahve like that? You deserve it frankly

Are you saying that a 17 year old should exhibit a level of maturity that is absolutely unknown to adults just a few years older? I'm thinking of Frat parties...

Come on, it was a funny prank.

Kinda reminiscent of what the DIs used to do to us at Parris Island. Except those pranks usually involved more yelling, more pushups, and a lot less humor.

Hazing is just a nice way of bonding the new guys in with the old. It does make a better team, not just a collection of individuals, when you all share some kind of common experience.

If I were one of those freshmen I would have been quite ticked, but I wouldn't have thought of it as hazing, just some stupid people being immature. Then again I have had that stuff happen to me too many times to really find any humor in it.

However it was a silly little prank, it didn't cross the line into abuse. And the freshmen thought it was funny too, so I don't see a problem. Your school must have some sort of "zero-tolerance, zero-intelligence rule against hazing" as Myrmidonisia put it, and really, you shouldn't get in trouble over a silly prank.

Really, I think it comes down to this. Were the freshmen upset afterward? Were they harmed in any way? Could they have been harmed?

I think that the "parent" who complained is an idiot who most likely shouldn't be a parent.

Are you saying that a 17 year old should exhibit a level of maturity that is absolutely unknown to adults just a few years older? I'm thinking of Frat parties...

Come on, it was a funny prank.

Kinda reminiscent of what the DIs used to do to us at Parris Island. Except those pranks usually involved more yelling, more pushups, and a lot less humor.

Hazing is just a nice way of bonding the new guys in with the old. It does make a better team, not just a collection of individuals, when you all share some kind of common experience.

Actually I have to disagree with you about hazing. It's not much of a bonding experience if you're being possibly physically harmed and humiliated.

However even if pranking a few freshmen is hazing, this sort of thing is nothing to worry about.

See kids, that is why you should never talk to you parents and keep them out of your life.;)

Are you saying that a 17 year old should exhibit a level of maturity that is absolutely unknown to adults just a few years older? I'm thinking of Frat parties...

As a 17 year old let me say: I don't think it should be expected that a 17 year old act like a perfect adult, nor do I think that they should always act like an adult,
BUT
at this point you should be able to know that there is a time and a place and certain boundries. You should know that tolerance at school is lower then other places and really, he should have had enough good judgement not to do that as there are constantly articles about cyberbulling, hazing, traditional bulling, various crimes that it is just assumed that youth did etc. And he shouild know how to stay away from this sort of thing and to grow up.

Although, as I've said before a suspension in this case is frankly absurd.Tell them to stop being dicks and get over it.

Actually I have to disagree with you about hazing. It's not much of a bonding experience if you're being possibly physically harmed and humiliated.

However even if pranking a few freshmen is hazing, this sort of thing is nothing to worry about.

Sure, there's a big difference between something that is potentially harmful and a prank. If that's the difference between "hazing" and "pranking", then I fully support pranks and condemn hazing.

Some kid probably went home and joked about this with his parents who didn't consider it a joke or something.

I dunno, when I was in first year uni pranks were prohibited because the year before things had escalated between two residences (one of which was the one I was moving into) that ended up with the carpet in the front entrance way to one residence (mine) getting completely covered in ketchup (i.e. soaked straight through, they had to tear the carpet out and replace it). I don't think a stunt like that would be considered hazing, I mean, of all the things we were encouraged to do, having to take everything out of a backpack and putting it right is nothing.

Oh but yeah, that was a prank, not hazing. Hazing is what happened in grade 9 when people would be cornered/shoved into the bathroom and have upper year students write "niner" and 9's all over their face with marker.

As a 17 year old let me say: I don't think it should be expected that a 17 year old act like a perfect adult, nor do I think that they should always act like an adult,
BUT
at this point you should be able to know that there is a time and a place and certain boundries. You should know that tolerance at school is lower then other places and really, he should have had enough good judgement not to do that as there are constantly articles about cyberbulling, hazing, traditional bulling, various crimes that it is just assumed that youth did etc. And he shouild know how to stay away from this sort of thing and to grow up.

Although, as I've said before a suspension in this case is frankly absurd.Tell them to stop being dicks and get over it.
Y'all have got a tough row to hoe in schools, now. I do sympathize. Growing up in the days before every other parent threated to sue if their child was 'mistreated' and before zero-tolerance was a substitute for judgment has left me with some pre-conceptions about school that are hard to shed.

Mainly, school shouldn't be a rigid and humorless place. Kids (17 year olds are still kids) should be able to pull of a harmless prank once in a while. When I graduated, we put the principal's sports car in the school lobby. As I recall, no one was arrested, no one threatened. He only wanted help getting it out when it was time to go home.

that sucks.

Y'all have got a tough row to hoe in schools, now. I do sympathize. Growing up in the days before every other parent threated to sue if their child was 'mistreated' and before zero-tolerance was a substitute for judgment has left me with some pre-conceptions about school that are hard to shed.

Mainly, school shouldn't be a rigid and humorless place. Kids (17 year olds are still kids) should be able to pull of a harmless prank once in a while. When I graduated, we put the principal's sports car in the school lobby. As I recall, no one was arrested, no one threatened. He only wanted help getting it out when it was time to go home.I put a frog inside the mascot's head during home coming, but there was no evidence.;)

Well, yes this was an immature thing to do.



However, it's part of life, it's what keeps us young at heart, no matter how old we are. It's what makes life fun! And it gives us unique experiences that shape and mold our lives and ourselves.

And yes, to a degree, I believe that it is a form of bonding, only if no one is hurt or humiliated by it. (Which was the case in this particular situation).

And it wasn't harrassment because it was done to everyone equally, so as long as no one was physically harmed or independently humiliated, I consider it completely harmless and perhaps vital to a healthy life.

No suspension necessary.

have your parents go in and threaten to sue over you getting punished for something that isnt on the list of unacceptable behavior.

i know its stupid but in a game of "dueling lawsuit threats" it might keep you on the team.

No it isn't. Take them (Board of Ed and the parents) to court.

No it isn't. Take them (Board of Ed and the parents) to court.

Agreed, if you could create a media circus about this, I'd bet something like this would never happen again.

Well, kind of. It's not really a big deal right now, but if you actually get kicked off the team, do it.

No it isn't. Take them (Board of Ed and the parents) to court.

You have to remember two things when you start talking about suing governments.

First, lawyers aren't free.

Second, governments employ lawyers, so the costs for handling litigation are already budgeted.

How long can you last against a BoE lawyer?

Better tactic is to take them on personally, by running another candidate for their seat.

This kind of thing seems to happen often these days. Well, as I'm sure you know you probably shouldn't have done it; but that being said it was a completely harmless prank, and I would think that someone would be harpressed to prove otherwise. These days its best to just toe the line seeing as crossing it usually means breaking one of our magical "zero tolerance" (zero inteligence is more accurate) laws and rediculous consequences.

So, I feel for you man, but as a fellow High School Junior I have to tell you that you should know by now how your school would react to this kinda thing by now.

You have to remember two things when you start talking about suing governments.

First, lawyers aren't free.

Second, governments employ lawyers, so the costs for handling litigation are already budgeted.

How long can you last against a BoE lawyer?

Better tactic is to take them on personally, by running another candidate for their seat.

By luck, 2 of the other people in trouble with me have parents who are lawyers.

Here's the story, I was at soccer practice for my school team last Thursday. I myself am a junior and was sitting with a few other juniors and sophmores before practice began. The JV and Varsity season has been going on for a few weeks but the freshman team's tryouts were going on last week.

While we were waiting for practice to start we came up with an idea for a prank. The freshman were all out running and we were going to go down and X all of their backpacks. For those who don't know, that means take the stuff out, turn the backpacks inside out and putting the stuff back in. So we went down, did that and watched as they came back and found all of their stuff. They looked confused at first but then they were laughing.

Fastforward to Friday and our coach has everyone who was involved come talk to him. Out of the 8 or 9 who were involved only myself and 3 others talked to him. He tells us that the board of administrators has been calling him all day about a complaint from a parent, that we couldn't play in our game that day and that if it gets to human resources that we could be kicked off the team and suspended. After we heard that we ran over to the freshman tryouts and apologized to the kids who said had their backpacks X'd but they all said that they thought the prank was funny.

So my question is, do you think this is serious enough to deserve suspension and being kicked off the team?


When I was in high school, I duct taped a freshman naked to a toilet. That earned me a one day in-school suspension. Nowadays, I'd be on a sex offender's list.

What has the world come to? :rolleyes:

No way man. Pranks like that are harmless and funny. That happened to me when I was a freshman, I didn't start PMSing on everyone.

Schools need to chill the fuck out.

Seriously though, it's really pathetic. Most of that "hazing" shit is pathetic. The school system is turning people into pussies with no sense of humor.

Has no-one else gotten confused by his name? o.O

As for the punishment, read through your handbook. Schools wont take lightly to anything considered to be hazing.

Has no-one else gotten confused by his name? o.O
It's an acronym.
As for the punishment, read through your handbook. Schools wont take lightly to anything considered to be hazing.
That's one of the big problems, hazing isn't even mentioned in the handbook. That and I can't find a Pennsylvania law concerning hazing in high school, only college.

Here's the story, I was at soccer practice for my school team last Thursday. I myself am a junior and was sitting with a few other juniors and sophmores before practice began. The JV and Varsity season has been going on for a few weeks but the freshman team's tryouts were going on last week.

While we were waiting for practice to start we came up with an idea for a prank. The freshman were all out running and we were going to go down and X all of their backpacks. For those who don't know, that means take the stuff out, turn the backpacks inside out and putting the stuff back in. So we went down, did that and watched as they came back and found all of their stuff. They looked confused at first but then they were laughing.

Fastforward to Friday and our coach has everyone who was involved come talk to him. Out of the 8 or 9 who were involved only myself and 3 others talked to him. He tells us that the board of administrators has been calling him all day about a complaint from a parent, that we couldn't play in our game that day and that if it gets to human resources that we could be kicked off the team and suspended. After we heard that we ran over to the freshman tryouts and apologized to the kids who said had their backpacks X'd but they all said that they thought the prank was funny.

So my question is, do you think this is serious enough to deserve suspension and being kicked off the team?

Prank is a prank and what you did, I don't consider hazing.

now some parents may view what you did as a dangerious 'start of a trend' thing.

I do have one question tho. did you and those who participated stay and help turn their backpacks right side out? or did you just leave them to their own devices?

Prank is a prank and what you did, I don't consider hazing.

now some parents may view what you did as a dangerious 'start of a trend' thing.

I do have one question tho. did you and those who participated stay and help turn their backpacks right side out? or did you just leave them to their own devices?

Left them, it takes literally 30 seconds to fix. I don't know about other schools but it happens all the time at mine and teachers don't get angry about it. But when you do it to younger kids on a team all of the sudden it's hazing.

Well aren't you acting like an ass! I'm kidding, but for a junior? I go to TCC and any asshole that does that gets kicked out. But if the freshies thinks its funny then it's okay.:)

You have to remember two things when you start talking about suing governments.

First, lawyers aren't free.

Second, governments employ lawyers, so the costs for handling litigation are already budgeted.

How long can you last against a BoE lawyer?

Better tactic is to take them on personally, by running another candidate for their seat.

By the time that happens, he'll be long off the team. At least a Court can issue an injunction.

Left them, it takes literally 30 seconds to fix. I don't know about other schools but it happens all the time at mine and teachers don't get angry about it. But when you do it to younger kids on a team all of the sudden it's hazing.

... carefull, it sounds like an "it's ok because everyone does it." argument. I'm not saying what you did was wrong, nor did I say that the punnishment was right.

However, how one parent may have heard the story may have sounded like a malicious act. (especialy if that parent's child was NOT one of the Freshmen who participated in the tryouts but only saw what you guys were doing with their backpacks.)

it could be just one overprotective parent, it could be one misunderstanding, but right now, I would suggest you sit out the game and let your coach argue that the "ebil pranksters" have been caught and punished. the prank was harmless, the parent seems to be overreacting. any fight on your part may backfire and end up worse.

now some parents may view what you did as a dangerious 'start of a trend' thing.

Yeah especially the parents of a kid, for whom this may well not be the first incident but the final straw that broke the camel's back.

If you want to 'prank' pick on your own peers or older kids and even then make sure you pick on the most robust and least vulnerable.
You picked on younger kids who, in reality, can't retailiate in any way. Whatever your intent, that is no longer a prank, it is plain bullying and I bet there are things about bullying in your school handbook.

Yeah especially the parents of a kid, for whom this may well not be the first incident but the final straw that broke the camel's back.

If you want to 'prank' pick on your own peers or older kids and even then make sure you pick on the most robust and least vulnerable.
You picked on younger kids who, in reality, can't retailiate in any way. Whatever your intent, that is no longer a prank, it is plain bullying and I bet there are things about bullying in your school handbook.

or at least make it known that you did it for fun. such as staying to help 'clean up'. for that prank, if someone did X out my backpack, I would've appreciated the help in turning it back. even if that help was not needed. it shows that the prank was done in fun and jest. heck, by sharing the laughter and the clean up, it will help bond the two elements (prankster and prankee) in a better relationship where there would be no hard feelings or misunderstanding.

and yes, for pranks I pulled at many a camp, I would help clean up. even if it means letting the prankee use my sleeping bag while his dried out.

... carefull, it sounds like an "it's ok because everyone does it." argument. I'm not saying what you did was wrong, nor did I say that the punnishment was right.
Not to be argumentative but I'm using a "it's ok because it's accepted by authorities every other time" argument

Sounds like some kids said BAWWWWWWWWWWW about it and the school had to take action to prevent trouble. They need to grow up and learn to take a joke. Frankly, I thought it was funny.

In school I used a portable catapult and laucnhed starving crazed weasels at the Freshmen, till the weasels were no longer in our area.:(

Yeah especially the parents of a kid, for whom this may well not be the first incident but the final straw that broke the camel's back.

If you want to 'prank' pick on your own peers or older kids and even then make sure you pick on the most robust and least vulnerable.
You picked on younger kids who, in reality, can't retailiate in any way. Whatever your intent, that is no longer a prank, it is plain bullying and I bet there are things about bullying in your school handbook.

Not pranking freshman?


Who are you?

^ That really doesn't matter. It takes 5 seconds to flip someone's backpack and 5 seconds to reverse the process.

That's hazing? Jesus, what happened in the few short.... year since I was in highschool?

It's an acronym.

I cannot think of a name? Like the poster "Cannot think of a name"?

Left them, it takes literally 30 seconds to fix. I don't know about other schools but it happens all the time at mine and teachers don't get angry about it. But when you do it to younger kids on a team all of the sudden it's hazing.
You targeted younger students only and only ones on your team (Well, same sport), I can see where the school board came up with the hazing lable.

As to the punishment, hmm, good question. This sounds silly enough that it shouldn't have rated anything more than the coach giving you guys a chewing out. But, then again, where do you draw the line between allowable and not allowable?

Not pranking freshman?


Who are you?

Fair call.

Pah. When I was a Senior, we trash-canned freshman for walking through the senior locker area. The most we got was a "Don't do that!" and a few people eventually got detentions.

And I was class of 06, so not too long ago.

Not pranking freshman?


Who are you?

Duh - someone who believes in picking on people my own size, rather than being a bully.

Pah. When I was a Senior, we trash-canned freshman for walking through the senior locker area. The most we got was a "Don't do that!" and a few people eventually got detentions.

Gosh you and your pals were incredibly brave. I can't imagine the courage it must have required for a group of you to pick on a freshman who didn't know his way around. I bet y'all got a real kick out of tying firecrackers to cats tails on Halloween too. Oh wait - the cats might scratch or try to defend themselves, you probably weren't quite up to that.

Here's the story, I was at soccer practice for my school team last Thursday (http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Last_thursday).
Stop there. You've already struck paydirt.

Duh - someone who believes in picking on people my own size, rather than being a bully.



Gosh you and your pals were incredibly brave. I can't imagine the courage it must have required for a group of you to pick on a freshman who didn't know his way around. I bet y'all got a real kick out of tying firecrackers to cats tails on Halloween too. Oh wait - the cats might scratch or try to defend themselves, you probably weren't quite up to that.

Grow a skin. Picking on freshman is a time honored tradition, and I would have hated it if the seniors didn't pick on me when I was one. It's a rite of passage, and it does PLENTY of good for them.

Pah. When I was a Senior, we trash-canned freshman for walking through the senior locker area. The most we got was a "Don't do that!" and a few people eventually got detentions.

And I was class of 06, so not too long ago.
Now, see THAT is bullying and if it was ongoing behavour than you derserved a suspension, among other things.

It's an acronym.
http://www.nationstates.net/13376/page=display_nation/nation=cannot_think_of_a_name
That's one of the big problems, hazing isn't even mentioned in the handbook. That and I can't find a Pennsylvania law concerning hazing in high school, only college.

You're in PA? Neat! Where?

*is also in PA and will now look through his handbook(s)*

Grow a skin. Picking on freshman is a time honored tradition, and I would have hated it if the seniors didn't pick on me when I was one. It's a rite of passage, and it does PLENTY of good for them.

We had the same thing for sophomores rather than freshman (due to the size of our school district, the high school only had 10-12 in it rather than 9-12). It did do a lot of good, because I quickly saw just how annoying they were even when I was a sophomore.

I cannot think of a name? Like the poster "Cannot think of a name"?

I doubt they have the same beard, mm-hmmm.

I doubt they have the same beard, mm-hmmm.

I'm pretty confident that they are actually two bodies occupying the same mind. Which would lead me to assume that they both are trying to grow the same beard. So, maybe...

*is also in PA and will now look through his handbook(s)*
From current school. (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y79/Goomg/other/blahhh/hazing1.jpg)
From main school. (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y79/Goomg/other/blahhh/hazing2-1.jpg) Continued. (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y79/Goomg/other/blahhh/hazing2-2.jpg)

Pah. When I was a Senior, we trash-canned freshman for walking through the senior locker area. The most we got was a "Don't do that!" and a few people eventually got detentions.

And I was class of 06, so not too long ago.

When I was a freshman there was a senior and two juniors determined to get me into a trashcan over the course of the year. The senior ended up in the trash can and the other three of us ended up laughing. Good times.

When I was a freshman there was a senior and two juniors determined to get me into a trashcan over the course of the year. The senior ended up in the trash can and the other three of us ended up laughing. Good times.

That's my Pedro!

Here's the story, I was at soccer practice for my school team last Thursday. I myself am a junior and was sitting with a few other juniors and sophmores before practice began. The JV and Varsity season has been going on for a few weeks but the freshman team's tryouts were going on last week.

While we were waiting for practice to start we came up with an idea for a prank. The freshman were all out running and we were going to go down and X all of their backpacks. For those who don't know, that means take the stuff out, turn the backpacks inside out and putting the stuff back in. So we went down, did that and watched as they came back and found all of their stuff. They looked confused at first but then they were laughing.

Fastforward to Friday and our coach has everyone who was involved come talk to him. Out of the 8 or 9 who were involved only myself and 3 others talked to him. He tells us that the board of administrators has been calling him all day about a complaint from a parent, that we couldn't play in our game that day and that if it gets to human resources that we could be kicked off the team and suspended. After we heard that we ran over to the freshman tryouts and apologized to the kids who said had their backpacks X'd but they all said that they thought the prank was funny.

So my question is, do you think this is serious enough to deserve suspension and being kicked off the team?

This is 100% NOT HAZING!

It's an acronym.

That's one of the big problems, hazing isn't even mentioned in the handbook. That and I can't find a Pennsylvania law concerning hazing in high school, only college.

Most schools have anti-hazing regulations. My high school sure does after an incident with the school's football team.

This is 100% NOT HAZING!

But it is 100% being a dick.

But it is 100% being a dick.

Makes one wonder why the school is punishing/threatening to punish him for hazing, as opposed to punishing/threatenting to punish him for being a dick.

That's the way it seems to be going - a parent over-reacts over some trivial problem and complains to a school governor. The governors love to flex their muscles and demand action, and so the over-reaction is passed down the line to a low-level scapegoat. Trouble is, the wrong sort of people go in for being school governors, it's always the petty-minded interfering busybodies. Normal people are off having a good time turning freshers' backpacks inside out.

Geez, suspended over that? Nothing was stolen. At the most the student was slightly inconvenienced but that is it. It sounds pretty tame.

Schools are getting too uppity with this zero tolerance bullshit.

If the people who you did this to thought it was funny and not done with intent to harm I fail to see what the problem is.

At least none of them wound up in a locker... that's the problem with being the smallest kid in your grade is getting put in a locker. It happened to me in grade 7.

Our school threw pennies by the handful at freshmen. I'd rather have my backpack turned inside out, personally. It's what? 2 minutes of inconvenience? Better than a welt.

Geez, suspended over that? Nothing was stolen. At the most the student was slightly inconvenienced but that is it. It sounds pretty tame.

Schools are getting too uppity with this zero tolerance bullshit.

If the people who you did this to thought it was funny and not done with intent to harm I fail to see what the problem is.

At least none of them wound up in a locker... that's the problem with being the smallest kid in your grade is getting put in a locker. It happened to me in grade 7.

Our lockers were too small to fit a whole person in there. You'd even have trouble fitting an average sized torso in there.

Our lockers were too small to fit a whole person in there. You'd even have trouble fitting an average sized torso in there.

Ours were more than big enough for that, which is actually kind of scary. Even the lockers we had in the secondary school were big enough for a person who wasn't too big.

Our lockers were too small to fit a whole person in there. You'd even have trouble fitting an average sized torso in there.

You could fit a torso in the locker. But it was a very tight fit and you had to be careful cause usually thier shirt would catch on the latch.... *runs away*

Being a dick? Some of you people are seriously cracking me up right now. "Oh no my backpack got turned inside out!! I cant ever go to school again, I'm so scared of these bullies!!" Hehehe wow! I guess it's a good thing that most of you seemed to have went to the tightie whitie schools, I dont think you could handle a real high school.

Being a dick? Some of you people are seriously cracking me up right now. "Oh no my backpack got turned inside out!! I cant ever go to school again, I'm so scared of these bullies!!" Hehehe wow! I guess it's a good thing that most of you seemed to have went to the tightie whitie schools, I dont think you could handle a real high school.

http://farm.tucows.com/images/2006/06/internet_tough_guy_magazine.jpg

You're a jr and you bahve like that? You deserve it franklyHave to agree. Grow up.

Are you saying that a 17 year old should exhibit a level of maturity that is absolutely unknown to adults just a few years older? I'm thinking of Frat parties...How does the fact that fraternity brothers are morons equate to maturity being "absolutely unknown" within their age-group?

"Everyone else does it" has never been much of an excuse in my book, anyway.

"Oh no my backpack got turned inside out!! I cant ever go to school again, I'm so scared of these bullies!!"

Not so much "I can't ever go to school again"... more like "why does this person think he can mess around with my stuff for his own amusement?"

At least that would have been my reaction.

That and I can't find a Pennsylvania law concerning hazing in high school, only college.In PA law, it's called "hazing" in higher education and "bullying" at lower levels, but it's really basically the same thing. If you look for "bullying" in the PA Code, you'll find the relevant statutes.

Actually, in Ohio, "X-ing" is called "Turtling" and it is pretty damn funny. Actually I went to a catholic all boys school. Of course we had to wear uniforms, which involved a suit coat and a tie.

A popular prank was taking chalk and crudely drawing a penis on the back of the blue/black sport coat..sometimes a guy could go all day with a wang on his back and have no idea.

It's a rite of passage, and it does PLENTY of good for them.Really? I'd like you to produce a single shred of evidence to that effect.

Meanwhile, I'll stick to the psychological consensus that bullying/hazing has long-term negative effects for both the victims and perpetrators, as well as passive observers of the incident.

The short-term effects of the victim can be “physical and psychological distress, difficulty in concentrating and school phobia” where as the long term effects can be an “inability to initiate and maintain successful long-term relationships with members of the opposite sex, higher levels of depression, and having a more negative self-concept than do peers who have not been bullied” (Crothers & Levinson, 2004).

In the short-term, “bullies learn to become empowered over others in an unhealthy manner, that is likely to be functional later in childhood” (Crothers & Levinson, 2004). “Bullying is also associated with poor academic achievement, absenteeism, and decreased school bonding” (Dake, et al, 2003). In the long-term, bullies are more likely to participate in domestic violence, criminality, and substance abuse, because of the development of maladaptive social skills reinforced by the bullying (Crothers & Levinson, 2004). Even more far-reaching, the consequences of these long term effects can affect the future generations as the maladaptive behavior is transferred to children born to bullies (Crothers & Levinson, 2004).

For observers, the effects can be as devastating as for the bullies and victims because they are a witness to the injustices in the world, and can have feelings of helplessness because they did not act, are often afraid of being labeled a “tattle-tale,” and have feelings of being unsafe even if they are not the target of the incident (Liepe-Levinson & Levinson, 2005).

Actually, in Ohio, "X-ing" is called "Turtling" and it is pretty damn funny.

Explain. Where's the humor?

Explain. Where's the humor?I second the question. I don't understand the "joke." What's "funny" about it?

You know, in the sense in which I have elsewhere defended slapstick comedy, the prank might--might be funny if the freshman were the ones to perpetrate it against the juniors and seniors, thereby undermining the hubris of the upper classes, demonstrating their vulnerability and revealing a humanity they had buried under arrogance and narcissism.

But to attack first-year students dealing with all the inherent insecurities of being the new kids in unfamiliar territory... that's just cruel.

Perhaps even more cruel if you've managed to convince your victims it's funny.

I'm pretty confident that they are actually two bodies occupying the same mind. Which would lead me to assume that they both are trying to grow the same beard. So, maybe...

Could be, could be ... but perhaps they were focusing on different parts of the body to grow the beard on ... :eek: