NationStates Jolt Archive

Descend in to the caverns below ground and start rebuilding technology and civilization with my group of surface-raiding mercenaries. It would be tough, but at least there would be water and food of some form or another (or at least we could steal it from the surface).

The earth. How would you survive? I was watching a program on the Science Channel about what would happen if an asteroid, similar in size to the one that killed the dinosaurs, striked the earth.

timeline of events:

before impact: astronomers find that a huge space rock is going to crash into the earth.....again. They determine that it will strike in that large penninsula in south Mexico. Evacuations are ordered, but evacuating millions of people is harder than you think. Nuclear missiles are launched in an attempt to alter the rock's course, but fail because it's huge and made out of solid rock and heavy metal and not the musical kind.

Impact: rock crashes into earth exactly where astronomers predicted. Massive amounts of dust and rock are sent flying into the sky. There was so much thermal and kinetic (or whatever) energy created, that the impact created a wall of fire and molten material many times hotter than the sun that envelops everything within a thousand or so radius. In short, northern Latin America is screwed, along with southern American cities.

The force was so great and so close to the sea that it creates tsunamis that devour entire coastal cities along the Atlantic and possibly Pacific Ocean. In addition, an invisible electro-magnetic field quickly engulfs the earth, reducing electronics to large paper weights after their circuits are fried.

Days after impact: Dust from the impact begins to block out the sun as hot debris rains down all over the world. Water sources around the world become so acidic, they leach heavy metals, such as Lead. Ground Zero is incredibly hot.

Weeks after impact: Plants worldwide die from the new lack of sunlight. Fungi, which don't depend on photo-synthesis, experience a population explosion because of the large amount of dead matter. This population explosion is soon replaced with a population crash.

Months and years after impact: Ice age. Global warming is replaced with global cooling. Greenhouse gases aren't as important as global glaciers. The lack of sunlight has cooled the earth down greatly. Survivors are forced to move closer to seas and oceans, which aren't cooled down nearly as fast. Civilization is forced into the Dark Ages as basic survival trumps technological progress, which was at a standstill since the electromagnetic wave.

Food is scarce because of the sudden climate change and resulting mass extinction. Barter replaces currency. The climate changes, loss of technology, epidemics, and famines reduce entire nations into mere tribes.
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How would you manage to survive? Electronics would be useless. The cold would kill crops. Hot climates would grow cold, except for the impact zone. Epidemics and famines would weaken you like no tomorrow. How could you survive?

Given the effects outlined in your example, the long term effects are closer to this.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4s2q5KkO10E

Prognosis: All life on earth is screwed. What isn't fried gets oven baked. No survivors.

an invisible electro-magnetic field
As opposed to a visible one?

How would you manage to survive? Electronics would be useless. The cold would kill crops. Hot climates would grow cold, except for the impact zone. Epidemics and famines would weaken you like no tomorrow. How could you survive?
Due to your scenario, I wouldn't survive. Hawaii would be wiped off the face of the globe.

I would however, take the last few days to learn how to surf and go out riding the world largest recorded wave.

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/213/044920813301lzzzzzzzxs3.jpg

Required reading in case of such an impact.

So you're telling me that there's no longer drinkable water?

Yeah, I'm fucked. Me and everyone else who needs things like hydration.

Days after impact: Dust from the impact begins to block out the sun as hot debris rains down all over the world. Water sources around the world become so acidic, they leach heavy metals, such as Lead. Ground Zero is incredibly hot. correction... SURFACE water becomes acidic. Artisean wells may survive. Especially those on the other side of the world.

Weeks after impact: Plants worldwide die from the new lack of sunlight. Fungi, which don't depend on photo-synthesis, experience a population explosion because of the large amount of dead matter. This population explosion is soon replaced with a population crash. not really, fungi may still survive. especially in damp areas where they can get their moisture from water soaking into the earth from melted glaciers All surface plants may die, but subterranian ones may survive.

Months and years after impact: Ice age. Global warming is replaced with global cooling. Greenhouse gases aren't as important as global glaciers. The lack of sunlight has cooled the earth down greatly. Survivors are forced to move closer to seas and oceans, which aren't cooled down nearly as fast. Civilization is forced into the Dark Ages as basic survival trumps technological progress, which was at a standstill since the electromagnetic wave. or underground as some say. any surviving glacers may become the new bedrocks since ice and snow are great insulators.

Food is scarce because of the sudden climate change and resulting mass extinction. Barter replaces currency. The climate changes, loss of technology, epidemics, and famines reduce entire nations into mere tribes. that's dependant on the people. Some may take the Only the Strong Survives rule.

As opposed to a visible one?

Visible light is electromagnetic.

Scenario on the scale of the dinosaur impact: Humanity survives, but many die due to immediate climate shifts (and tsunamis). Humans are much smarter than Dinosaurs. World population reduced to maybe a few billion.

Scenario on the scale of a dwarf planet (~1500km diameter) impacting: Earth turns into a molten ball of lava, and either obtains a second moon or a planetary ring system. All life dies.

Due to your scenario, I wouldn't survive. Hawaii would be wiped off the face of the globe.

I would however, take the last few days to learn how to surf and go out riding the world largest recorded wave.

Hawaii has plenty of high ground because of the whole volcano thing. The best way to survive a tsunami is to be either too far away or too high up.

Getting off Hawaii would be a huge pain. According to the program and the scientist people on it, the sudden climate change would produce storm surges. Getting off by boat would be dangerous and getting off by plane would be completely suicidal.

Hawaii has plenty of high ground because of the whole volcano thing. The best way to survive a tsunami is to be either too far away or too high up.

Getting off Hawaii would be a huge pain. According to the program and the scientist people on it, the sudden climate change would produce storm surges. Getting off by boat would be dangerous and getting off by plane would be completely suicidal.

an astroid large enough to kick up a dust cloud to blot out the sun for months on a global scale and start an ice age...

sorry, you are talking about a MEGATSUNAMI that could be MILES high. Hawaii will be scoured clean. Haleakala would have a lake in it's creator.

an astroid large enough to kick up a dust cloud to blot out the sun for months on a global scale and start an ice age...

sorry, you are talking about a MEGATSUNAMI that could be MILES high. Hawaii will be scoured clean. Haleakala would have a lake in it's creator.

You have hundreds of miles of land and thousands of miles of ocean in the way. You also have enough thermal energy to melt everything within an approx. 1000 mile radius. Only a fraction of it is going to affect Hawaii.

Am I the only one who read dinos as dildos?

You have hundreds of miles of land and thousands of miles of ocean in the way. You also have enough thermal energy to melt everything within an approx. 1000 mile radius. Only a fraction of it is going to affect Hawaii.

hundreds of miles of land being hit by a several (possibly thousands) miles high wall of water moving at near sonic speeds.

Remember, you have the metor hitting the pacific side of Mexico. between the pacific and the Gulf of California. no land mass to break the wall of water between Mexico and Hawaii.

and for mega tsunamis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megatsunami)?

go read the hundreds of metere walls of water caused by rocks and rockslides that would be smaller in size and impact of your meteor by a very significant factor.

correction... SURFACE water becomes acidic. Artisean wells may survive. Especially those on the other side of the world.
India may not survive. The shock waves will travel around the globe in all directions, and eventually they will all meet at the antipode of the impact point - India.

India may not survive. The shock waves will travel around the globe in all directions, and eventually they will all meet at the antipode of the impact point - India.

Woah, seriously? How bad are we talking here?

Also, I call bullshit on the asteroid landing EXACTLY where it was predicted to land. Predictions like that are far from foolproof, and while those nukes might not've changed its course anywhere near enough to make it miss the planet, the force generated by them cannot be denied. It should've landed off course by some distance...I want to say at least 500 miles but that's just a number I'm pulling from nowhere.

Woah, seriously? How bad are we talking here?

Also, I call bullshit on the asteroid landing EXACTLY where it was predicted to land. Predictions like that are far from foolproof, and while those nukes might not've changed its course anywhere near enough to make it miss the planet, the force generated by them cannot be denied. It should've landed off course by some distance...I want to say at least 500 miles but that's just a number I'm pulling from nowhere.

Well, not really. Predicting direction in space is pretty reliable so long as your readings are reliable too, which they would be, since it's pretty close to Earth.

Well, not really. Predicting direction in space is pretty reliable so long as your readings are reliable too, which they would be, since it's pretty close to Earth.
Oh...yeah, I suppose you're right. I was thinking of variables that just don't exist in space.

But still...did I have a point about the nukes throwing the asteroid off target just a wee bit?

Oh...yeah, I suppose you're right. I was thinking of variables that just don't exist in space.

But still...did I have a point about the nukes throwing the asteroid off target just a wee bit?

They undoubtedly would, but unless they're detonated just before it enters the atmosphere there'd probably be enough time to recalculate its trajectory.

They undoubtedly would, but unless they're detonated just before it enters the atmosphere there'd probably be enough time to recalculate its trajectory.

Ah, okay then. I can accept what the program said now. Thank you.

India may not survive. The shock waves will travel around the globe in all directions, and eventually they will all meet at the antipode of the impact point - India.

while I would agree that might happen, I believe Africa would lessen the force somewhat. It can be also argued that the multitude of south pacific Islands may also act like rumble strips, eating away at the total force while the wave destroys them. including the philipine islands.

while I would agree that might happen, I believe Africa would lessen the force somewhat. It can be also argued that the multitude of south pacific Islands may also act like rumble strips, eating away at the total force while the wave destroys them. including the philipine islands.

Given that this was mentioned...


Impact: rock crashes into earth exactly where astronomers predicted. Massive amounts of dust and rock are sent flying into the sky. There was so much thermal and kinetic (or whatever) energy created, that the impact created a wall of fire and molten material many times hotter than the sun that envelops everything within a thousand or so radius. In short, northern Latin America is screwed, along with southern American cities.

Assuming he means miles or kilometers, it doesn't really matter at that scale, we're talking atmosphere cooking here. The skies would literally catch fire, an advancing cloud of supersonic fire that will flash boil everything caught below.

Not even those in deep earth shelters would survive. And if by some miracle they do, they have to contend with atmosphere deprivation because the Earth isn't going to have much of one in the end.

We already got fucked when the scientists decided to send nukes up against the asteroid, thus turning into a vast myriad of slightly smaller asteroids, each fucking up their own part of the planet.

Do Not Nuke (http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/nudging_not_nuking_000211.html) An Asteroid... (http://space.newscientist.com/article/mg18825253.100-dont-nuke-deadly-asteroids--tow-them.html) ...directly. (http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/08/nasa-draws-up-plans-for-nuke-packing-asteroid-interceptor/)

and I am really sceptical about NASA's plans - sounds like they watched too much hollywood (but at least they are trying a new idea).

Given that this was mentioned...



Assuming he means miles or kilometers, it doesn't really matter at that scale, we're talking atmosphere cooking here. The skies would literally catch fire, an advancing cloud of supersonic fire that will flash boil everything caught below.

Not even those in deep earth shelters would survive. And if by some miracle they do, they have to contend with atmosphere deprivation because the Earth isn't going to have much of one in the end.
If he's talking miles, then definately Hawaii is screwed. :p

however, I do believe the flash boiling would only be in the immediate area (and I am talking planetary scale, so not that small either.)

the overpressure and heat wave may travel halfway around the world, but I do believe atmospheric pressure would re assert itself and the vacuum where the astroid passes would eventually pull the pressure back. India will hear the bang, see the flash of light, even feel a shock wave and increased heat and definatly several ears will pop. but not to the point of flash cooking.

of course that would still mean that they get to live though the nuclear winter...

If he's talking miles, then definately Hawaii is screwed. :p

however, I do believe the flash boiling would only be in the immediate area (and I am talking planetary scale, so not that small either.)

the overpressure and heat wave may travel halfway around the world, but I do believe atmospheric pressure would re assert itself and the vacuum where the astroid passes would eventually pull the pressure back. India will hear the bang, see the flash of light, even feel a shock wave and increased heat and definatly several ears will pop. but not to the point of flash cooking.

of course that would still mean that they get to live though the nuclear winter...

I'm attempting to do some calculations based upon nuclear fireballs. These are NOT accurate, they're estimates and extrapolations based upon semi-educated guesswork and patchy details. The actual results depend upon the density of the asteroid and the type of land it impacts etc.

A fireball of 1000km radius = everything within 2500km instantly dies. Everything within 4000km experiences third degree burns. That's roughly a third of the planet, instantly. And that's just from the fireball.

It causes a global earthquake, measuring around 5.25 on the Richter scale. Literally. As in, the entire Earth shakes.

Then the ejecta falls, and the planet pretty much dies.

I'm attempting to do some calculations based upon nuclear fireballs. These are NOT accurate, they're estimates and extrapolations based upon semi-educated guesswork and patchy details. The actual results depend upon the density of the asteroid and the type of land it impacts etc.

A fireball of 1000km radius = everything within 2500km instantly dies. Everything within 4000km experiences third degree burns. That's roughly a third of the planet, instantly. And that's just from the fireball.

It causes a global earthquake, measuring around 5.25 on the Richter scale. Literally. As in, the entire Earth shakes.

Then the ejecta falls, and the planet pretty much dies.
are you taking air pressure into account. after all, you are not just talking fire, but the pressure wave of the impact. eventually, the air is forced to one point of the planet (and assuming the pressure doesn't cause the air to leak away from the planet) won't it increase the air resistance almost what... exponentially?

If he's talking miles, then definately Hawaii is screwed. :p

however, I do believe the flash boiling would only be in the immediate area (and I am talking planetary scale, so not that small either.)

the overpressure and heat wave may travel halfway around the world, but I do believe atmospheric pressure would re assert itself and the vacuum where the astroid passes would eventually pull the pressure back. India will hear the bang, see the flash of light, even feel a shock wave and increased heat and definatly several ears will pop. but not to the point of flash cooking.

of course that would still mean that they get to live though the nuclear winter...

The earth is about 4,000 km radius wise, 510,000,000 km in surface area. The ejecta forms a circle (roughly) of about 1,000km or 1,600km depending on the measure mentioned. He also states that it burns at temperatures hotter than the sun's surface (for maybe a few seconds). And this isn't some easily heat dissipating material like air. It's liquefied magma.

I'd say yeah, the atmosphere would catch fire, and whatever is left of it after the firestorm would get sucked out of the nice new literal hole in the atmosphere. Maybe 25% or less atmosphere density than normal at sea level, and that's a generous estimate.

Anyone who somehow survived the firestorm and walks into the open is going to decompress so badly, he'll pop like a balloon from the air in his lungs.

The earth is about 4,000 km radius wise, 510,000,000 km in surface area. The ejecta forms a circle (roughly) of about 1,000km or 1,600km depending on the measure mentioned. He also states that it burns at temperatures hotter than the sun's surface (for maybe a few seconds). And this isn't some easily heat dissipating material like air. It's liquefied magma.

I'd say yeah, the atmosphere would catch fire, and whatever is left of it after the firestorm would get sucked out of the nice new literal hole in the atmosphere. Maybe 25% or less atmosphere density than normal at sea level, and that's a generous estimate.

Anyone who somehow survived the firestorm and walks into the open is going to decompress so badly, he'll pop like a balloon from the air in his lungs.
*shrugs*
as I said, Hawaii will be gone and I'll not be around. thus moot point. :p

Okay, revised calculations:

Hawaii is roughly 6730km from the Bay of Mexico. The asteroid that killed the dinosaurs was roughly 10km wide. Let's use those as our parameters, with the density of rock as our base.

Distance from Impact: 6730.00 km = 4179.33 miles
Projectile Diameter: 10000.00 m = 32800.00 ft = 6.21 miles
Projectile Density: 3000 kg/m3
Impact Velocity: 17.00 km/s = 10.56 miles/s
Impact Angle: 45 degrees
Target Density: 1000 kg/m3
Target Type: Liquid Water of depth 1000.00 meters, over typical rock.

Energy before atmospheric entry: 2.27 x 1023 Joules = 5.42 x 107 MegaTons TNT
The average interval between impacts of this size somewhere on Earth during the last 4 billion years is 9.9 x 107years

The crater opened in the water has a diameter of 102 km = 63.1 miles

For the crater formed in the seafloor:
Transient Crater Diameter: 60.5 km = 37.5 miles
Transient Crater Depth: 21.4 km = 13.3 miles

Final Crater Diameter: 104 km = 64.4 miles
Final Crater Depth: 1.2 km = 0.743 miles

The crater formed is a complex crater.
The volume of the target melted or vaporized is 1260 km3 = 302 miles3
Roughly half the melt remains in the crater , where its average thickness is 439 meters = 1440 feet

The major seismic shaking will arrive at approximately 1350 seconds.
Richter Scale Magnitude: 9.7 (This is greater than any earthquake in recorded history, and it's also over 6000km away)
Mercalli Scale Intensity at a distance of 6730 km:

III. Felt quite noticeably by persons indoors, especially on upper floors of buildings. Many people do not recognize it as an earthquake. Standing motor cars may rock slightly. Vibrations similar to the passing of a truck.

IV. Felt indoors by many, outdoors by few during the day. At night, some awakened. Dishes, windows, doors disturbed; walls make cracking sound. Sensation like heavy truck striking building. Standing motor cars rocked noticeably.

The ejecta will arrive approximately 2140 seconds after the impact.
At your position there is a fine dusting of ejecta with occasional larger fragments
Average Ejecta Thickness: 391 micrometers = 15.4 1/1000 of an inch
Mean Fragment Diameter: 10 micrometers = 0.395 1/1000 of an inch

The air blast will arrive at approximately 20400 seconds.
Peak Overpressure: 3920 Pa = 0.0392 bars = 0.557 psi
Max wind velocity: 9.1 m/s = 20.4 mph
Sound Intensity: 72 dB (Loud as heavy traffic)

Okay, revised calculations:

Hawaii is roughly 6730km from the Bay of Mexico. The asteroid that killed the dinosaurs was roughly 10km wide. Let's use those as our parameters, with the density of rock as our base.

Distance from Impact: 6730.00 km = 4179.33 miles
Projectile Diameter: 10000.00 m = 32800.00 ft = 6.21 miles
Projectile Density: 3000 kg/m3
Impact Velocity: 17.00 km/s = 10.56 miles/s
Impact Angle: 45 degrees
Target Density: 1000 kg/m3
Target Type: Liquid Water of depth 1000.00 meters, over typical rock.

Energy before atmospheric entry: 2.27 x 1023 Joules = 5.42 x 107 MegaTons TNT
The average interval between impacts of this size somewhere on Earth during the last 4 billion years is 9.9 x 107years

The crater opened in the water has a diameter of 102 km = 63.1 miles

For the crater formed in the seafloor:
Transient Crater Diameter: 60.5 km = 37.5 miles
Transient Crater Depth: 21.4 km = 13.3 miles

Final Crater Diameter: 104 km = 64.4 miles
Final Crater Depth: 1.2 km = 0.743 miles

The crater formed is a complex crater.
The volume of the target melted or vaporized is 1260 km3 = 302 miles3
Roughly half the melt remains in the crater , where its average thickness is 439 meters = 1440 feet

The major seismic shaking will arrive at approximately 1350 seconds.
Richter Scale Magnitude: 9.7 (This is greater than any earthquake in recorded history, and it's also over 6000km away)
Mercalli Scale Intensity at a distance of 6730 km:

III. Felt quite noticeably by persons indoors, especially on upper floors of buildings. Many people do not recognize it as an earthquake. Standing motor cars may rock slightly. Vibrations similar to the passing of a truck.

IV. Felt indoors by many, outdoors by few during the day. At night, some awakened. Dishes, windows, doors disturbed; walls make cracking sound. Sensation like heavy truck striking building. Standing motor cars rocked noticeably.

The ejecta will arrive approximately 2140 seconds after the impact.
At your position there is a fine dusting of ejecta with occasional larger fragments
Average Ejecta Thickness: 391 micrometers = 15.4 1/1000 of an inch
Mean Fragment Diameter: 10 micrometers = 0.395 1/1000 of an inch

The air blast will arrive at approximately 20400 seconds.
Peak Overpressure: 3920 Pa = 0.0392 bars = 0.557 psi
Max wind velocity: 9.1 m/s = 20.4 mph
Sound Intensity: 72 dB (Loud as heavy traffic)

nice. not as bad as I thought, but what of the megatsunami? started by the impact/earthquake and pushed by the winds?
and I thought the impact would be more by Baja... by the Gulf of California.

nice. not as bad as I thought, but what of the megatsunami? started by the impact/earthquake and pushed by the winds?
and I thought the impact would be more by Baja... by the Bay of California.

Presumably it'd encircle the planet, like the dinokiller.

Hmm, so, having through explained how dead this would make us, I have a new proposition.

What if earth was hit by a giant water balloon?

knowing my luck... the giant knot where the ballon is tied will land right on me. :D

Presumably it'd encircle the planet, like the dinokiller.

Hmm, so, having through explained how dead this would make us, I have a new proposition.

What if earth was hit by a giant water balloon?

Hmm, so, having through explained how dead this would make us, I have a new proposition.

What if earth was hit by a giant water balloon?

That depends. How much water and how fast? 7 kilos of kitty litter at .8c will create enough energy to overwhelm any nuclear weapon ever made.

Hmm, so, having through explained how dead this would make us, I have a new proposition.

What if earth was hit by a giant water balloon?

The trapdoor beneath us would open and we'd fall into the pool of sharks :)

For the fireball, when they said hotter than the sun's surface, I'm sure they probably meant the crater area. The thousand mile radius was likely the unsurvivably hot area. As demonstrated by thousands of nuclear explosions and countless trillions of lightning strikes, the air isn't something that's as ignitable as people think.

My survival plan:

1. Stock up on months worth of supplies and stay in a location far enough to be safe from tsunamis but close enough to the ocean so that I would more easily survive the resulting ice age.

2. Guns count as supplies. Any family tries to steal my family's supplies will eat lead. Survival of the heavily armed, people. God bless America's Second Amendment.

3. I consume only what is needed to survive. Not just enough to maintain my energy but enough to stave off disease and weakness.

4. When the time is right, me and possibly a group of other survivors move to the more tolerable coastal regions. Because water doesn't heat up or cool down as fast as air or possibly dirt, it will be warmer.

5. New world order. Everyone bows down to their new leader: Hoyteca Gun-owner. As one of the few survivors smart enough to stock up on weaponry and the appropriate ammunition, I will be king. King I say. Any opposition would soon be reduced to food by my Weapons of Awesome (possibly copyrighted and/or trademarked somewhere by some guy).

Survival of the smartest. Okay, strongest and smartest. He who has the lead will make the rules.

That depends. How much water and how fast? 7 kilos of kitty litter at .8c will create enough energy to overwhelm any nuclear weapon ever made.

Let's say it's the same as this asteroid in volume and speed. Don't forget the rubber. *nod*

For the fireball, when they said hotter than the sun's surface, I'm sure they probably meant the crater area. The thousand mile radius was likely the unsurvivably hot area. As demonstrated by thousands of nuclear explosions and countless trillions of lightning strikes, the air isn't something that's as ignitable as people think.


Nuh uh. Not according to your description. Did you think that the ejecta would not be heated to the same levels as the crater? It is after all, what was there before the crater formed.

Whichever the case, we're talking a circle of superheated magma over 1000km in diameter and an ash cloud and a supersonic megatsunami that will wipe out just about anything more complex than single cell lifeforms in at most a single day.

The atmosphere will burn. Here's a thought experiment. Light a candle. Put it under a jar. When the candle snuffs out, that's because it's consumed all the oxygen in the area.

Now imagine this superheated lava storm of yours. It's going to burn all the oxygen like never before, and it's heating of the surrounding area will create a firestorm that will torch just about all burnable gas in the area and most of it around the planet.

And your completely forgetting the blast effects themselves. At ELE asteroid sizes, the blast winds will tear down even reinforced buildings, and knock down trees.

Maybe you'll be lucky and be in a deep earth shelter. Until the seismic effects come knocking. Then you'll be lucky not to be crushed under umpteen tons of rock.

Let's say it's the same as this asteroid in volume and speed. Don't forget the rubber. *nod*

10 cubic kilometers of ice. Which it will be since it'd freeze in space. At 1500km...


The crater opened in the water has a diameter of 75.7 km = 47 miles

For the crater formed in the seafloor:
Transient Crater Diameter: 30.7 km = 19.1 miles
Transient Crater Depth: 10.9 km = 6.74 miles

Final Crater Diameter: 48.2 km = 29.9 miles
Final Crater Depth: 0.95 km = 0.59 miles

The crater formed is a complex crater.
The volume of the target melted or vaporized is 102 km3 = 24.5 miles3
Roughly half the melt remains in the crater , where its average thickness is 138 meters = 453 feet


The major seismic shaking will arrive at approximately 300 seconds.
Richter Scale Magnitude: 9.0
Mercalli Scale Intensity at a distance of 1500 km:

III. Felt quite noticeably by persons indoors, especially on upper floors of buildings. Many people do not recognize it as an earthquake. Standing motor cars may rock slightly. Vibrations similar to the passing of a truck.

IV. Felt indoors by many, outdoors by few during the day. At night, some awakened. Dishes, windows, doors disturbed; walls make cracking sound. Sensation like heavy truck striking building. Standing motor cars rocked noticeably.


The ejecta will arrive approximately 633 seconds after the impact.
At your position the ejecta arrives in scattered fragments
Average Ejecta Thickness: 2.35 mm = 0.0927 inches
Mean Fragment Diameter: 244 micrometers = 9.6 1/1000 of an inch




The air blast will arrive at approximately 4550 seconds.
Peak Overpressure: 25700 Pa = 0.257 bars = 3.65 psi
Max wind velocity: 54.9 m/s = 123 mph
Sound Intensity: 88 dB (Loud as heavy traffic)
Damage Description:


Interior partitions of wood frame buildings will be blown down. Roof will be severely damaged.

Glass windows will shatter.

About 30 percent of trees blown down; remainder have some branches and leaves blown off.


Megatsunami not calculated.

Since you guys apparently know everything...how many NEOs have been charted, and how much of the sky is watched for NEOs?

10 cubic kilometers of ice. Which it will be since it'd freeze in space. At 1500km...

It pops into existence at the proper speed within the atmosphere. Quantum mechanics and all that *nod*

It pops into existence at the proper speed within the atmosphere. Quantum mechanics and all that *nod*
Dude, that's not going to happen unless we're talking that odd quantum mechanics thing that goes on after the universe is kaput, and even that's entirely hypothetical, so far as I know.

Quantum mechanics cannot just do anything you want it to...

Dude, that's not going to happen unless we're talking that odd quantum mechanics thing that goes on after the universe is kaput, and even that's entirely hypothetical, so far as I know.

Quantum mechanics cannot just do anything you want it to...

Dude, I'm talking about a planetary water balloon, suspend disbelief for a minute, kay?

Since you guys apparently know everything...how many NEOs have been charted, and how much of the sky is watched for NEOs?

4,187 objects. 792 of them as potentially hazardous. And about 70% until the Australian installation is brought up to speed.

It pops into existence at the proper speed within the atmosphere. Quantum mechanics and all that *nod*

Which given the mass and speed...makes absolutely no difference.

4,187 objects. 792 of them as potentially hazardous. And about 70% until the Australian installation is brought up to speed.

Interesting.

Wait, 70%? I could've sworn I heard somewhere that it was only 3%...

Interesting.

Wait, 70%? I could've sworn I heard somewhere that it was only 3%...

Possibly old data.

Possibly old data.

Must've been pretty old.

What would the new percentage be after the Australian facility is up to speed?

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/213/044920813301lzzzzzzzxs3.jpg

Required reading in case of such an impact.

I attempted to read that, but it didn't appeal to me and I gave up on it.

Must've been pretty old.

What would the new percentage be after the Australian facility is up to speed?

Not sure. They say it will provide the remaining 30% coverage, but we'll have to see.

As to your 3% I think I may have found out what it's for. It's not the coverage, but the total percentage of estimated NEO's found.

Not sure. They say it will provide the remaining 30% coverage, but we'll have to see.

As to your 3% I think I may have found out what it's for. It's not the coverage, but the total percentage of estimated NEO's found.

And I think I remember now where I heard that...it was from Armageddon, which is hardly a source for factual information regarding anything except possibly oil drillers jargon.

They probably misinterpreted that figure to mean what they wanted it to mean, just like they pissed on science in every other way. Deep Impact was far, far better along that line(though they still pissed a bit when it came to blowing up the larger piece of the comet right on top of Earth's atmosphere...)

Am I the only one who read dinos as dildos?

Apparently. :p

while I would agree that might happen, I believe Africa would lessen the force somewhat. It can be also argued that the multitude of south pacific Islands may also act like rumble strips, eating away at the total force while the wave destroys them. including the philipine islands.

You've thought about this a lot, huh? Freak!

We already got fucked when the scientists decided to send nukes up against the asteroid, thus turning into a vast myriad of slightly smaller asteroids, each fucking up their own part of the planet.

*links*

and I am really sceptical about NASA's plans - sounds like they watched too much hollywood (but at least they are trying a new idea).

Breaking the asteroid into two parts which both hit the planet would be a good result. More ablation of each part by atmosphere, and if they hit at roughly the same time, interference of the shockwaves, meaning a few patches of earths surface unharmed by it, at the cost of other parts getting a double dose.

Breaking the asteroid up into a fine dust is ideal. It's all ablated and there's no surface strikes. Lots of heat from the sky I guess.

Hmm, so, having through explained how dead this would make us, I have a new proposition.

What if earth was hit by a giant water balloon?

At sufficient speed, it is quite irrelevant whether the mass arrives as a liquid or a solid. Or indeed a gas.

If it wobbled up really slow, I guess we might get a sensation of wetness before we all die.

Nuh uh. Not according to your description. Did you think that the ejecta would not be heated to the same levels as the crater? It is after all, what was there before the crater formed.

Whichever the case, we're talking a circle of superheated magma over 1000km in diameter and an ash cloud and a supersonic megatsunami that will wipe out just about anything more complex than single cell lifeforms in at most a single day.

The atmosphere will burn. Here's a thought experiment. Light a candle. Put it under a jar. When the candle snuffs out, that's because it's consumed all the oxygen in the area.

Now imagine this superheated lava storm of yours. It's going to burn all the oxygen like never before, and it's heating of the surrounding area will create a firestorm that will torch just about all burnable gas in the area and most of it around the planet.

That's some weird definition of "burning" you are using.
Phosphorus is about the worst case scenario: oxidizing, it takes five oxygen atoms for each phosphorus atom. A hundred tons of phosphorus would consume (by burning) five hundred tons of oxygen ... which is chicken-feed.

Heat, combustion of forests and such, generation of NO and NO2 from the atmosphere ... I still can't see the atmospheric pressure being reduced to less than half. Huge winds, tornadoes etc as the pressure equalizes.

Nah. Minor threat compared with tsunamis, fire, and "nuclear winter."

And your completely forgetting the blast effects themselves. At ELE asteroid sizes, the blast winds will tear down even reinforced buildings, and knock down trees.

Maybe you'll be lucky and be in a deep earth shelter. Until the seismic effects come knocking. Then you'll be lucky not to be crushed under umpteen tons of rock.

More important measure of the blast effect is: does it kill an unprotected human?

A building has a huge cross-section, and it's strength is generally directed only against gravity. As in an earthquake, it's the building falling down, not the shock which caused that, which kills the people.

Not sure. They say it will provide the remaining 30% coverage, but we'll have to see.


Us aussies are responsible for 30% of the coverage? We'll fake it, believe me :p

At sufficient speed, it is quite irrelevant whether the mass arrives as a liquid or a solid. Or indeed a gas.

If it wobbled up really slow, I guess we might get a sensation of wetness before we all die.

I see...Ohh, what about a cosmic water pistol? would a sufficient speed create entrance/exit wounds?

I have three bags of crispies and I won't share, but will I survive ..... NO ! because the people will kill me for my crispies.

I have three bags of crispies and I won't share, but will I survive ..... NO ! because the people will kill me for my crispies.

Hmm...what if a giant crispy was merely floating in our orbit and we hit it?

Dang, I need some kind of model of the earth so I can just hit it with stuff and see which is the coolest.

For the atmosphere to catch fire, btw, it needs something that will burn.

Air in itself won't burn, no matter how heated it is. Pure oxygen won't either. You need to introduce a flammable element first.

For the atmosphere to catch fire, btw, it needs something that will burn.

Air in itself won't burn, no matter how heated it is. Pure oxygen won't either. You need to introduce a flammable element first.

...

What? Oxygen is flammable. It's what fuels a fire. How does this make sense?

What? Oxygen is flammable. It's what fuels a fire. How does this make sense?

I would think pure oxygen could go up in flames, but there are simply too many other components of our atmosphere to enable it to go up in flames.

I would think pure oxygen could go up in flames, but there are simply too many other components of our atmosphere to enable it to go up in flames.

That, I knew...it seemed to me he was suggesting that it wouldn't burn because oxygen doesn't burn, which makes no sense at all.

Given the effects outlined in your example, the long term effects are closer to this.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4s2q5KkO10E

Prognosis: All life on earth is screwed. What isn't fried gets oven baked. No survivors.
That one's definitely bigger than the one that killed the dinosaurs. I mean, the thing is spherically symmetric. Do you know how massive something has to be to pull itself into a ball?

...

What? Oxygen is flammable. It's what fuels a fire. How does this make sense?

Sorry, you're wrong there. Fire IS oxidation, the release of energy from free oxygen combining with some other element, usually carbon.

Nitrous and nitric oxides (N2O and NO) are produced in combustion, but making them takes more energy than is released. They're a by-product of combustion. Elements other than nitrogen and oxygen are too rare in the atmosphere to be a factor, so ... the atmosphere cannot burn.

You've thought about this a lot, huh? Freak!

actually...

it was the environment we ran for Gamma World decades ago.

This is actually why wars have a point. It gives us a reason to develop our military tech. In future, there may be huge lasers or that kinda shit to deal with these kinda astroids.

It's ironic, given that wars are desructive and may cause the extinction of our species but also may save us too.

This is actually why wars have a point. It gives us a reason to develop our military tech. In future, there may be huge lasers or that kinda shit to deal with these kinda astroids.

It's ironic, given that wars are desructive and may cause the extinction of our species but also may save us too.

Changing the course of an asteroid is far more practical than vaporizing it. For that you need action-and-reaction, so splitting the asteroid forcibly into two parts which diverge to either side of earth would seem the best way to go. If the asteroid is big, even that may be beyond our means.

Yeah, perhaps a bigass laser could heat the inside of an asteroid fast enough to make it split. I'm having trouble imagining a laser which could deliver as much energy, as quickly, as nukes. That kind of energy won't be carried in wires, so it presumably has to be stored in the laser like a round in a gun.

actually...

it was the environment we ran for Gamma World decades ago.

:eek:
I just read up on Gamma World. Somehow I missed that at the time, despite being a huge fan of post-apocalyptic scenarios (On The Beach, Dr Strangelove, J.G. Ballard and later the cyberpunks.)

More important measure of the blast effect is: does it kill an unprotected human?

A building has a huge cross-section, and it's strength is generally directed only against gravity. As in an earthquake, it's the building falling down, not the shock which caused that, which kills the people.

Well, from the impact calculations, stuff like cars and trucks would be wrecked to the point where they're unsalvageable. I imagine humans would be tossed like toothpicks and if they hit anything harder than jello, they're goners.

Sorry, you're wrong there. Fire IS oxidation, the release of energy from free oxygen combining with some other element, usually carbon.

Nitrous and nitric oxides (N2O and NO) are produced in combustion, but making them takes more energy than is released. They're a by-product of combustion. Elements other than nitrogen and oxygen are too rare in the atmosphere to be a factor, so ... the atmosphere cannot burn.

Really? I seem to remember oxygen tents being a fire hazard. And then there was the Apollo program where somebody thought 100% oxygen was a good idea. The result? Roast astronauts, well done.

:eek:
I just read up on Gamma World. Somehow I missed that at the time, despite being a huge fan of post-apocalyptic scenarios (On The Beach, Dr Strangelove, J.G. Ballard and later the cyberpunks.)

Twilight 2000, Car Wars (or the Mad Max version we played was post apocalypitic...)

but my favorite RP series is...

Macho Women with Guns
Renegade Nuns on Wheels
Bat Winged Bimbos from Hell

Really? I seem to remember oxygen tents being a fire hazard. And then there was the Apollo program where somebody thought 100% oxygen was a good idea. The result? Roast astronauts, well done.

Ok, it's *real* simple. Burning is combining things with oxygen, you can't combine oxygen with oxygen because you end up with... Oxygen, i.e. you can't do it and get energy out.

If there was a way to burn air (under any environmental conditions possible in the universe short of a super nova) we would have power plants doing just that.

If you "burn" nitrogen (the only other component in air in any significant quantity) you actually lose energy, i.e. "burning" nitrogen makes things colder not hotter.

Having higher than normal oxygen concentration makes other things burn much better, the danger with oxygen tents is that everything else in them will burn, including things that don't at the %20 oxygen in normal air, and they light much easier and burn much hotter and faster (things like the patient, the bed, etc...)

The problem in apollo was that all the stuff in the capsule burned practically instantly in the pure oxygen atmosphere.


So, in short if you heat air hot enough to "burn" it (i.e. get the nitrogen and oxygen to combine into various oxides of nitrogen) they will actually cool themselves to do it.

As for the fireball, all that rock will initially be super hot, but by the time it gets 1000 miles away it will have cooled quite a bit.

Also, The sheer fact that we are here is proof that *lots* of stuff survives a mega impact.

I wonder how big and how close an impact would have to be for the guys at NORAD to get killed.

Sorry, you're wrong there. Fire IS oxidation, the release of energy from free oxygen combining with some other element, usually carbon.

Nitrous and nitric oxides (N2O and NO) are produced in combustion, but making them takes more energy than is released. They're a by-product of combustion. Elements other than nitrogen and oxygen are too rare in the atmosphere to be a factor, so ... the atmosphere cannot burn.
Ooooh.

Thanks for clearing that up. His post makes a lot more sense now.

I wonder how big and how close an impact would have to be for the guys at NORAD to get killed.
Wasn't the Cheyenne Mountain Facility closed down recently, or did they simply move NORAD somewhere else?

Ooooh.

Thanks for clearing that up. His post makes a lot more sense now.

It's a shame really. Cars that run on air would be pretty damn cool, particularly if their exhaust was nitrous oxide. Bums like me could just sit on the curb at the traffic lights and get high for free ...

It's a shame really. Cars that run on air would be pretty damn cool, particularly if their exhaust was nitrous oxide. Bums like me could just sit on the curb at the traffic lights and get high for free ...

Actually one of the main pollutants of auto exhaust *is* NOx (oxides of nitrogen). Especially if the engine is running lean. That is one of the tricks of better gas mileage, running leaner without pissing off the EPA.

Mind you there are alot of ways to combine oxygen and nitrogen besides nitrous oxide, and most of them aren't things you want to breath, that's why they label it NOx, because you end up with all sorts of different molecules that made up of oxygen and nitrogen atoms, but the dentist only uses one particular one for a reason :)

I thank Scotts Island for explaining what I said :D I will still proceed to explain myself, because I was stupid enough to write this first, read thread later.

That, I knew...it seemed to me he was suggesting that it wouldn't burn because oxygen doesn't burn, which makes no sense at all.

...

What? Oxygen is flammable. It's what fuels a fire. How does this make sense?

Oxygen itself doesn't burn as was stated. Oxygen isn't flammable. There is a word for it that us chemists use. I don't remember the word, however, it basically means something along the line of:

"While oxygen isn't flammable, it is what makes other things in our atmosphere flammable"

So, in other words, some things just won't burn if oxygen isn't present. Some things well (TNT, for example, will explode even in a vacuum).

Really? I seem to remember oxygen tents being a fire hazard. And then there was the Apollo program where somebody thought 100% oxygen was a good idea. The result? Roast astronauts, well done.

Oxygen tents. Keyword: Tent. Tents are flammable. Oxygen helps it along.

100% Oxygen is a bad idea, because if you put a towelcloth on the heater, it doesn't take much to reach the flashpoint where the towel burns and then it will burn furiously.

Both of your examples included oxygen with a flammable element.

The earth. How would you survive?
Out-fucking-standingly good fortune.

Wasn't the Cheyenne Mountain Facility closed down recently, or did they simply move NORAD somewhere else?

NORAD itself was closed down, but they still use the CMS for stuff they basically don't want anybody to be able to mess with :)

I am not sure, but I think they just basically split up NORAD itself, kinda like what happened to SAC, all the stuff is still around doing it's job, it's just not all organized under one command anymore.

Oh, I looked it up on Wikipedia:

"The center was designed to withstand up to a 30 megaton blast within 1 nautical mile."

I guess it would have to be one hell of a big rock or actually hit the mountain.

Of course they guys in the CMS could always escape through the stargate if the facility wouldn't survive the impact :)

I'd head for Mexico and moon the incoming death rock.

I'd head for Mexico and moon the incoming death rock.

Or go surfing ...

Or go surfing ...

Perhaps both.

Perhaps both.

That would be a fairly impressive act I imagine.

That would be a fairly impressive act I imagine.

Well since the death rock is coming from above, one would only have to lie on the surfboard face down and sans swimwear and said death rock would be mooned.

Ah, I thought he meant surfing on the wake of the death rock.

Ah, I thought he meant surfing on the wake of the death rock.

Well I think the board and surfer would be killed by the rather high pressure before the death rock(a term I love now, btw) actually hit.

Ah, I thought he meant surfing on the wake of the death rock.

Whereas I was imagining him surfing on the moon.

...

Oooh, I know...he's using the moon to surf the wave of the death rock!

I hope this does not lead too far off-topic, but what if the asteroid hit the Moon rather than the Earth? Suppose the Moon was eclipsing the asteroid at the correct time, and it was struck instead.

I think it opens a fascinating hypothetical debate, one less commonly considered than the Earth-impact one. It could knock the Moon out of orbit, which could make it drift away or (To make things really, really bad) have it come crashing down on us. Then again, perhaps it would demolish our celestial partner. Imagine the meteor shower we would get! Consider how we would fare without the tides. What if it gave the Earth a ring? How would that alter things?

I hope this does not lead too far off-topic, but what if the asteroid hit the Moon rather than the Earth? Suppose the Moon was eclipsing the asteroid at the correct time, and it was struck instead.

I think it opens a fascinating hypothetical debate, one less commonly considered than the Earth-impact one. It could knock the Moon out of orbit, which could make it drift away or (To make things really, really bad) have it come crashing down on us. Then again, perhaps it would demolish our celestial partner. Imagine the meteor shower we would get! Consider how we would fare without the tides. What if it gave the Earth a ring? How would that alter things?

The man in the moon is screwed.

Death rock?

Dethrok?
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/rayarayaraya/Metalocalypse/Dethklok.gif

I hope this does not lead too far off-topic, but what if the asteroid hit the Moon rather than the Earth? Suppose the Moon was eclipsing the asteroid at the correct time, and it was struck instead.

I think it opens a fascinating hypothetical debate, one less commonly considered than the Earth-impact one. It could knock the Moon out of orbit, which could make it drift away or (To make things really, really bad) have it come crashing down on us. Then again, perhaps it would demolish our celestial partner. Imagine the meteor shower we would get! Consider how we would fare without the tides. What if it gave the Earth a ring? How would that alter things?
If the Moon gets knocked out of our orbit the Earth would drift out of its own orbit, possibly moving outside the "Goldilocks Zone" - the area where conditions are right for life. Then we'd be screwed.

To actually demolish the Moon...that'd have to be a big asteroid. It'd probably take a decent sized comet to manage that. And again, we'd be screwed, even if not much of the debris hit us.

Basically, we lose the Moon, we're likely to be screwed.

As for the original question, you've got the initial impact, which, depending on where it hits, could easily kill tens of millions, then large and not-so-large fragments of both earth and meteorite would be thrown up into the atmosphere to rain down across most of the planet. The shock wave would go round the planet a good few times (the shock wave from Mount Tambora in 1815 was felt in London...and that was only(!) the equivalent of about 25000 megatons), causing earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, etc, etc. The heatwave would be felt a couple of thousands of kilometres away. Enough ash, dust, etc, would be thrown up into the atmosphere to block out sunlight worldwide for years, causing major cooling. All the steam created by the impact (unless it hits right in the middle of Uzbekistan or something) would make it rain enough to cause floods in many places.

I'd estimate that over six billion people would die as a result of the initial impact and the aftermath. Unfortunately, there'd probably be enough to repopulate the world.

"The center was designed to withstand up to a 30 megaton blast within 1 nautical mile."

I guess it would have to be one hell of a big rock or actually hit the mountain.
From the Wikipedia entry for the Chicxulub crater:
"The meteorite's estimated size was about 10 km (6 mi) in diameter, releasing an estimated 500 zettajoules (5.0×1023 joules) of energy, approximately 100 teratons of TNT ((10 to the 14th power) tons)".

That's...3000000 times more powerful than would be needed to destroy the facility (assuming a direct hit). It's a big rock...but there are far bigger ones out there.

...
Oooh, I know...he's using the moon to surf the wave of the death rock!

Having thought about it some more, I've now devised a more fun way to die.

When the death rock hits, their will be several shockwaves: surface, atmospheric and mantle waves. If the exact trajectory of the rock is known, it should be possible to calculate places on the earth's surface where the shockwaves will create positive interference, possibly ejecting stuff into space.

Death rock arrives. I leave. It's not every day you get the opportunity to make an unaided human space-launch ...

Having thought about it some more, I've now devised a more fun way to die.

When the death rock hits, their will be several shockwaves: surface, atmospheric and mantle waves. If the exact trajectory of the rock is known, it should be possible to calculate places on the earth's surface where the shockwaves will create positive interference, possibly ejecting stuff into space.

Death rock arrives. I leave. It's not every day you get the opportunity to make an unaided human space-launch ...
I'd be right there with you...or at least trying the same thing you are. It'd be more fun than other ways to die, true...because up till now I was figuring that if it was inevitable and could not be stopped, I go for lots of fun and then suicide before it hits in a painless way so that I'm not killed by the impact.

Which makes me wonder...what parts of the U.S. would be able to survive the initial impact? I'm in Colorado...would I survive the initial impact only to die due to other things that occur?

would I survive the initial impact only to die due to other things that occur?

You'd probably die before the impact due to mass riots and breakdown of social order. Think of it as an announcement that Russian nukes have been launched in the cold war, without kiddy shows showing you how 2cm of plywood would stave off a nuclear blast. And without the surety of bomb shelters.

You'd probably die before the impact due to mass riots and breakdown of social order. Think of it as an announcement that Russian nukes have been launched in the cold war, without kiddy shows showing you how 2cm of plywood would stave off a nuclear blast. And without the surety of bomb shelters.
If I lived in an urban centre, I suppose I would, but since I live up in the boonies, as it were...I'm not so certain.

You'd probably die before the impact due to mass riots and breakdown of social order. Think of it as an announcement that Russian nukes have been launched in the cold war, without kiddy shows showing you how 2cm of plywood would stave off a nuclear blast. And without the surety of bomb shelters.

I abhor this projection. And it is a projection, a hypothesis in the event of things which have not yet happened.

Look at any natural disaster: yes, some people take the opportunity to break the law, but the vast majority of people make the exact opposite decision, and stand by their friends, they behave with courage and compassion, even towards complete strangers. They do that not because they are compelled to by law, but by simple human interest: we are all allies, when we are all threatened by some external (non-human) event.

I abhor this projection. And it is a projection, a hypothesis in the event of things which have not yet happened.

Look at any natural disaster: yes, some people take the opportunity to break the law, but the vast majority of people make the exact opposite decision, and stand by their friends, they behave with courage and compassion, even towards complete strangers. They do that not because they are compelled to by law, but by simple human interest: we are all allies, when we are all threatened by some external (non-human) event.

There has never been a natural disaster on the scale hypothesised in this thread. People might stick together when they know their homes/way of life/etc is going to be destroyed, but that doesn't mean that they would when all life on earth is almost certainly going to end.

There has never been a natural disaster on the scale hypothesised in this thread. People might stick together when they know their homes/way of life/etc is going to be destroyed, but that doesn't mean that they would when all life on earth is almost certainly going to end.

Well, if you are going to say that people will behave differently because of a firm conviction that there are no eternal consequences of their actions ... I obviously can't disprove that. Humanity has not been extincted yet, so there is no precedent.

I still contend that natural disasters are a good test-case for extinction. Faced with imminent death, most people will choose an honourable death over a spree of self-gratification followed by death.