NationStates Jolt Archive

You know, we've all heard about Reparations for black, paying their ancestors a certain sum of money to be determined because their ancestor went through slavery. Keeping in mind that the ancestor who will be receiving money never went through slavery and only some of them went through the Jim Crow Laws era. However, the blacks weren't the only group of people who were discriminated against, killed, maimed, etc, all because those in power wanted to keep their power. Aren't we all forgetting about the women of Salem Mass. who died because paranoid religious idiots thought that they were witches? I mean these women been torn away from their family, kept in dark dungeons, tortured, and eventually killed (either during one of the 'test' or an outright killing). Where are the reparation for their descendent's? Why aren't women today being paid money for the troubles that their ancestors went through in Salem?

Next week, Reparations for Native Americans, & Japanese American.
Week after that: Who else have we oppressed that we need to pay to make it right?

I'm Polish, German, and Russian...I could have a field day with reparations.

Don't forget the Irish, Poles, Germans, Italians, Mexicans, and Chinese.

What about the Shanghai business that went on? The government didn't stop people from kidnapping people. Shouldn't they pay for that?

Man we'll go broke at this point and not be able to pay for anything else....

Don't forget the Irish, Poles, Germans, Italians, Mexicans, and Chinese.

What about the Shanghai business that went on? The government didn't stop people from kidnapping people. Shouldn't they pay for that?

I'm Polish, German, and Russian...I could have a field day with reparations.

I'm from German descent myself, my family came over here in the 1900s. I wonder if I can get anything....

Not all women are ancestors of those at Salem. Also, the US government was not in control of the trials, the town of Salem was (you can't blame Massachusetts either, the governor was the one who ended the trials). However, the US government did condone through laws unfair treatment of blacks, and these effects still affect blacks today. Most women are not hurt by the trials at Salem.

That being said, I wouldn't support reparations for slavery, just because the government has taken steps to integrate the slaves and their descendants into American society. If it were a group that was separate from everyone else, like the Native Americans, who have their own intact group, it would make more sense.

I'm British, gimme reparations for stealing our colonies :(

¬_¬

I have an idea that will solve this once and for all. Everyone will be charged $1000 for damage their ancestors may have caused. Then everyone can claim a $1000 for damages to their ancestors at some distant time. You send your part of reparations and then claim your part. Therefore everyone can claim they paid their share and collected reparations in turn.

German, Polish, Swiss and though my grandmother a bit of Irish heritage, because she was adopted by a family named Kennedy. Lot's of wrongs were done to my ancestors, why shouldn't I get a piece of the pie?

No, not the Joe-Jack-Bobby Kennedy Kennedy's. Other Kennedy's.

Because only 20 people were killed, and most (if not all, I don't remember right now) had no children. Oh, and the dog.

You know, we've all heard about Reparations for black, paying their ancestors a certain sum of money to be determined because their ancestor went through slavery. Keeping in mind that the ancestor who will be receiving money never went through slavery and only some of them went through the Jim Crow Laws era. However, the blacks weren't the only group of people who were discriminated against, killed, maimed, etc, all because those in power wanted to keep their power. Aren't we all forgetting about the women of Salem Mass. who died because paranoid religious idiots thought that they were witches?

No one's "forgetting" about them, they just aren't bringing it up in a continuous, tiresome and frankly idiotic attempt at distraction anytime the question of slavery reparations comes up.

Except you, that is.

I mean these women been torn away from their family, kept in dark dungeons, tortured, and eventually killed (either during one of the 'test' or an outright killing). Where are the reparation for their descendent's? Why aren't women today being paid money for the troubles that their ancestors went through in Salem?

Oh wow. I didn't know that being a "woman" means you are "descended" from Salem witch trials victims.

Especially since there were only about 150 such victims.

But yeah, I guess you're right, 200 years of state-endorsed and financed pre- and post-industrial slavery sure is comparable with 2 years of some hicks imprisoning a couple dozen women.

Next up: Why I hate blacks but I'm not a racist. Topic by Wilgrove.

Because only 20 people were killed, and most (if not all, I don't remember right now) had no children. Oh, and the dog.

Not even that. I believe the number was nineteen, and then some were jailed and later released.

You know, we've all heard about Reparations for black, paying their ancestors a certain sum of money to be determined because their ancestor went through slavery. Keeping in mind that the ancestor who will be receiving money never went through slavery and only some of them went through the Jim Crow Laws era. However, the blacks weren't the only group of people who were discriminated against, killed, maimed, etc, all because those in power wanted to keep their power. Aren't we all forgetting about the women of Salem Mass. who died because paranoid religious idiots thought that they were witches? I mean these women been torn away from their family, kept in dark dungeons, tortured, and eventually killed (either during one of the 'test' or an outright killing). Where are the reparation for their descendent's? Why aren't women today being paid money for the troubles that their ancestors went through in Salem?

Next week, Reparations for Native Americans, & Japanese American.
Week after that: Who else have we oppressed that we need to pay to make it right?

That depends: are the descendents of the 'witches' still disadvantaged because of the treatment of their ancestors?

How about the Palestinians that were displaced when the west established Israel on their land because the west wanted to get rid of the "Jewish Problem", by exporting them.

Maybe we could pay all women for not allowing them to vote. There are women alive today that were born before women had the right to vote. Shouldn't they get something?

That depends: are the descendents of the 'witches' still disadvantaged because of the treatment of their ancestors?

Interesting notion actually; I'd venture some still are. But not being black and thus terribly fashionable to champion, fuck 'em eh?

But yeah, I guess you're right, 200 years of state-endorsed and financed pre- and post-industrial slavery sure is comparable with 2 years of some hicks imprisoning a couple dozen women.


It's not like this is the only example. I don't see you complaining about native Americans not receiving reparations, for example. What about the terrible gender inequality the government contributed to in almost every western country even in the 20th century, which still has an affect on culture even today? I know why, because the hip bandwagon doesn't whine about those things.


Next up: Why I hate blacks but I'm not a racist. Topic by Wilgrove.

You need to learn someday that just because someone disagrees with you doesn't automatically mean they hate blacks.

Reparation for the Salem Witch Trials?Yep. Everybody descended from those "righteous" protestants should pay. If fact all WASP-descended folks should pay. Always. ;)

Next up: Why I hate blacks but I'm not a racist. Topic by Wilgrove.

Yes, because anyone who doesn't agree blindly with NAACP, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, or any other black person is a racist. I mean God forbid we actually question why descendants of slaves should get the money since they never experienced slavery.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm late for a cross burning. :rolleyes:

Well there not going through it are they? They shouldn't make money off some dead ancestor! And wasn't it a riot that started the shooting?:mp5:
Anyways im glad im turkish, nothing happened to us. But we invented yogurt!
So why can't white and black people make up?:fluffle:

Reparations for coal miners.

Bitch.

My ancestors were convicts, I demand reparations.

We should start as far back as possible, using the most ancient records to determine who enslaved who, and spend the 21st century furiously researching which innocent modern day people should be compelled to pay which undeserving modern day people for the wrongdoings of their ancestors - or, as with American slavery reparations, for the wrongdoings of people who lived in the same area in the past.

My ancestors were Scottish*, gimme country-sized reparations.

*about a thousand years ago

I'm British, gimme reparations for stealing our colonies :(

¬_¬

I award you with first place for winning the thread! :D

Most women are not hurt by the trials at Salem.
But women were treated as slaves (or worse) for much longer than black people. I mean, since agriculture became mainstream, basically.

Man we'll go broke at this point and not be able to pay for anything else....

You're already broke. Remember that national debt of close to a trillion?

You're already broke. Remember that national debt of close to a trillion?

Insult to injury, insult to injury...

You know, we've all heard about Reparations for black, paying their ancestors a certain sum of money to be determined because their ancestor went through slavery. Keeping in mind that the ancestor who will be receiving money never went through slavery and only some of them went through the Jim Crow Laws era. However, the blacks weren't the only group of people who were discriminated against, killed, maimed, etc, all because those in power wanted to keep their power. Aren't we all forgetting about the women of Salem Mass. who died because paranoid religious idiots thought that they were witches? I mean these women been torn away from their family, kept in dark dungeons, tortured, and eventually killed (either during one of the 'test' or an outright killing). Where are the reparation for their descendent's? Why aren't women today being paid money for the troubles that their ancestors went through in Salem?

Next week, Reparations for Native Americans, & Japanese American.
Week after that: Who else have we oppressed that we need to pay to make it right?

It's pretty damned stupid it is to compare the admittedly tragic death of 14 women and, yes, six men to a system that enslaved millions of people, had and continues to have massive reprocussions on america's socio-economic system and has effects that continue to be felt today.

Moreover, I have one question, why should the american government pay for something that was done by officials of the British government?

Aren't we all forgetting about the women of Salem Mass. who died because paranoid religious idiots thought that they were witches? I mean these women been torn away from their family, kept in dark dungeons, tortured, and eventually killed (either during one of the 'test' or an outright killing). Where are the reparation for their descendent's? Why aren't women today being paid money for the troubles that their ancestors went through in Salem?



What about the man who got crushed to death? Does he not count cause he had a penis?

I don't think many of them had the chance to reproduce as they were mostly women and outcasts...

Well people are still trying to get a pardon, and probably compensation, for that witch the British locked up in WW2 for using her magic powers to give secrets to the Nazis.

does tht mean all thoose that lived in East Anglia get money beacuse of Matthew Hopkins

Insult to injury, insult to injury...Do facts insult you? Too bad.

It's pretty damned stupid it is to compare the admittedly tragic death of 14 women and, yes, six men to a system that enslaved millions of people, had and continues to have massive reprocussions on america's socio-economic system and has effects that continue to be felt today.
not stupid, just desperate and clutching at straws 'cause they don't have much else left in their argument bag to pull out and use. All the good arguments have been thoroughly debunked already.

It's pretty damned stupid it is to compare the admittedly tragic death of 14 women and, yes, six men to a system that enslaved millions of people, had and continues to have massive reprocussions on america's socio-economic system and has effects that continue to be felt today.No, it's not stupid at all. Because in issues like these you are not supposed to compare the effects or the numbers of victims but the mindsets that led to the respective atrocities. Evil is not evil because of numbers but because of its very nature. One wrong is just as wrong as a million wrongs.

not stupid, just desperate and clutching at straws 'cause they don't have much else left in their argument bag to pull out and use. All the good arguments have been thoroughly debunked already.

I haven't seen a debunk of:

Reparations destroy the dignity of black people, who already have very fragile dignity to begin with in the US, for a number of reasons.

1) It is a redux of the slavery transaction, we would merely be giving them a refund for the money paid for their ancestors. The notion would be that black people can be bought, that they have a numerical monetary value, and that the same mere money that underpinned slavery can absolve the country of the wrongs of the past.

2) It reinforces the catastrophic mentality of victim-hood and abject weakness and inferiority that pervades black American culture.

Every time one of the 'black leader' race pimps of this generation demands an apology and disgraces himself and his people by putting on a sob show at mere words, black people assert their position as inferior members of society who are so vulnerable and weak and undignified that a measly off-color remark is enough do do them serious harm.

If mere words can hurt you, then you live under the foot of whoever is capable of uttering them.

When black leaders prostitute their constituents like this, whining that some compensation is owed for the trivial wrongs of words, they engender loathing in the rest of the population. When there is a whiff of money involved, as with the bawling for slavery reparations, the appearance of a crooked hustle is reinforced, and bad stereotypes about black people are given credence in the eyes of more people than a lot of the youth on this forum would care to think.

What is more, if the guilt for slavery, whatever it may be, were bought off with reparations money, the cause of real black equality would be lost forever. White guilt underlies a great deal of the money and effort spent to help black people raise themselves out of their squalor here in America, and if that guilt were excused in return for something so crass as a payoff, black America - which is already losing its status as the most-important-minority to the hispanics, would find itself increasingly high and dry.

not stupid, just desperate and clutching at straws 'cause they don't have much else left in their argument bag to pull out and use. All the good arguments have been thoroughly debunked already.

Now that was completely pulled out of your arse, I've already provided other examples in my previous post.

Reperations are unecesary, and overboard for all of the reasons brought up in the op. People have no control over what someone did a few hundred years ago.

What about reparations to families of slain Abolitionists? I think the only reason this popped into my head is because I'm related to the Coffin family.

Well people are still trying to get a pardon, and probably compensation, for that witch the British locked up in WW2 for using her magic powers to give secrets to the Nazis.

:D

Have a link?

It's not like this is the only example. I don't see you complaining about native Americans not receiving reparations, for example.

What does my complaining about Native American reparations have to do with the debate on slavery reparations?

Oh that's right, nothing. Again you are just trying to distract from the subject by implying that I'm inconsistent. As if that would somehow make an argument.

What about the terrible gender inequality the government contributed to in almost every western country even in the 20th century, which still has an affect on culture even today?

What does gender inequality have to do with slavery reparations?

Oh that's right... nothing. Again.

I know why, because the hip bandwagon doesn't whine about those things.

What a lovely little rant.

You need to learn someday that just because someone disagrees with you doesn't automatically mean they hate blacks.

You need to learn that if you spend a lot of time arguing against the welfare of black people and trying to thrust slavery under the bed - and by 'arguing' i mean 'making irrational rants' - that might be due to racism. This is not about disagreement with me on any subject.

I'm against reparations for slavery, but-- I don't think we shouldn't help people out. I used to be for them, and affirmative action too, but then I thought about it(and read a bit, most importantly Obama's The Audacity of Hope, which has a great section on race), and I extend the idea logically to say we should help everybody who is, for some reason in their ancestral past, disadvantaged/ in poverty, not only black people. Not race-targeted aid, but universal aid for the poor.

If somebody's great grandfather was a drunk and squandered all the family fortune, and he's homeless, we should help him just the same as somebody whose ancestors were oppressed and is now in poverty. Yes, it was the great-grandfather's own fault he lost the money, but not his descendants'. They had no control over that-- it's no more their fault to be born into poverty than it is a black family's fault who is descended from slaves. We shouldn't primarily define people by groups based on skin color. In identifying people we need to help, we need to look at the given person's situation, and only look at the cause of it to the extent that it might be something that preventative measures should be taken against.

Now, if we implement programs to help the disadvantaged, it will, proportionally, help most minorities more than it will other people, because their ancestors got screwed over. But, given two people born into poverty and homelessness, why should we help the black guy more than the white guy? Why not help them both? Does not targeting disadvantaged people, only if they are black, not simply further separate them from others, and create resentment that could further increase racial tensions? Does it not also make the unwarranted assumption that every black person is descended from slaves? Even the ones whose families came here much later? If we improve programs for the poor-- all the poor, and more effectively enforce non-discrimination laws, then a consequence of that will be to close the race gap, because more minorities are in poverty than are white people, so more of them will be helped-- but because they are in a disadvantaged situation, not because of the color of their skin.

Furthermore, the people who most need the reparations, the people who are in deep poverty-- it won't really help them that much to give a cash handout. They'll have a bit of money for a while, but they'll soon spend it and be just as badly off as they were before. What we need to do is improve education for the poor, and we need to deal with this cultural belief that a black child who is concerned with their education is "acting white" (ugh, that phrase sickens me. How can you act a color?).

But of course, I'm against reparations, so you can make the blanket assumption that I'm racist, right? Because you've already said that all people who oppose them for any reason might as well join the KKK, and I'm sure that nothing will budge you from that position.

I'm against reparations for slavery, but-- I don't think we shouldn't help people out. I used to be for them, and affirmative action too, but then I thought about it(and read a bit, most importantly Obama's The Audacity of Hope, which has a great section on race), and I extend the idea logically to say we should help everybody who is, for some reason in their ancestral past, disadvantaged/ in poverty, not only black people. Not race-targeted aid, but universal aid for the poor.

If somebody's great grandfather was a drunk and squandered all the family fortune, and he's homeless, we should help him just the same as somebody whose ancestors were oppressed and is now in poverty. Yes, it was the great-grandfather's own fault he lost the money, but not his descendants'. They had no control over that-- it's no more their fault to be born into poverty than it is a black family's fault who is descended from slaves. We shouldn't primarily define people by groups based on skin color. In identifying people we need to help, we need to look at the given person's situation, and only look at the cause of it to the extent that it might be something that preventative measures should be taken against.

Now, if we implement programs to help the disadvantaged, it will, proportionally, help most minorities more than it will other people, because their ancestors got screwed over. But, given two people born into poverty and homelessness, why should we help the black guy more than the white guy? Why not help them both? Does not targeting disadvantaged people, only if they are black, not simply further separate them from others, and create resentment that could further increase racial tensions? Does it not also make the unwarranted assumption that every black person is descended from slaves? Even the ones whose families came here much later? If we improve programs for the poor-- all the poor, and more effectively enforce non-discrimination laws, then a consequence of that will be to close the race gap, because more minorities are in poverty than are white people, so more of them will be helped-- but because they are in a disadvantaged situation, not because of the color of their skin.

Furthermore, the people who most need the reparations, the people who are in deep poverty-- it won't really help them that much to give a cash handout. They'll have a bit of money for a while, but they'll soon spend it and be just as badly off as they were before. What we need to do is improve education for the poor, and we need to deal with this cultural belief that a black child who is concerned with their education is "acting white" (ugh, that phrase sickens me. How can you act a color?).

But of course, I'm against reparations, so you can make the blanket assumption that I'm racist, right? Because you've already said that all people who oppose them for any reason might as well join the KKK, and I'm sure that nothing will budge you from that position.

/thread

Seriously though, where are the reparations for women? We were no better than slaves much longer (and in some places still are...) and we still face gender discrimination (even if it's mostly mild now) I could use some extra money.

Seriously though, where are the reparations for women? We were no better than slaves much longer (and in some places still are...) and we still face gender discrimination (even if it's mostly mild now) I could use some extra money.

We don't give reparations to animals. [/sexist]

If everyone paid everyone for any wrong doing that they did to each other, wouldn't all the money go to Buddhists and Inuits? The Japanese raped and pillaged China, Native Americans killed and tortured settlers, Africans enslaved other Africans and stole land from the Dutch in South Africa, etc.

Come to think of it, I can't think of anything for the Irish and Polish, but I'm sure there's something.

If everyone paid everyone for any wrong doing that they did to each other, wouldn't all the money go to Buddhists and Inuits? The Japanese raped and pillaged China, Native Americans killed and tortured settlers, Africans enslaved other Africans and stole land from the Dutch in South Africa, etc.

Come to think of it, I can't think of anything for the Irish and Polish, but I'm sure there's something.

Well, you could probably go for the IRA attacks for the Irish.

I'm against reparations for slavery, but-- I don't think we shouldn't help people out. I used to be for them, and affirmative action too, but then I thought about it(and read a bit, most importantly Obama's The Audacity of Hope, which has a great section on race), and I extend the idea logically to say we should help everybody who is, for some reason in their ancestral past, disadvantaged/ in poverty, not only black people. Not race-targeted aid, but universal aid for the poor.

If somebody's great grandfather was a drunk and squandered all the family fortune, and he's homeless, we should help him just the same as somebody whose ancestors were oppressed and is now in poverty. Yes, it was the great-grandfather's own fault he lost the money, but not his descendants'. They had no control over that-- it's no more their fault to be born into poverty than it is a black family's fault who is descended from slaves. We shouldn't primarily define people by groups based on skin color. In identifying people we need to help, we need to look at the given person's situation, and only look at the cause of it to the extent that it might be something that preventative measures should be taken against.

Now, if we implement programs to help the disadvantaged, it will, proportionally, help most minorities more than it will other people, because their ancestors got screwed over. But, given two people born into poverty and homelessness, why should we help the black guy more than the white guy? Why not help them both? Does not targeting disadvantaged people, only if they are black, not simply further separate them from others, and create resentment that could further increase racial tensions? Does it not also make the unwarranted assumption that every black person is descended from slaves? Even the ones whose families came here much later? If we improve programs for the poor-- all the poor, and more effectively enforce non-discrimination laws, then a consequence of that will be to close the race gap, because more minorities are in poverty than are white people, so more of them will be helped-- but because they are in a disadvantaged situation, not because of the color of their skin.

Furthermore, the people who most need the reparations, the people who are in deep poverty-- it won't really help them that much to give a cash handout. They'll have a bit of money for a while, but they'll soon spend it and be just as badly off as they were before. What we need to do is improve education for the poor, and we need to deal with this cultural belief that a black child who is concerned with their education is "acting white" (ugh, that phrase sickens me. How can you act a color?).

But of course, I'm against reparations, so you can make the blanket assumption that I'm racist, right? Because you've already said that all people who oppose them for any reason might as well join the KKK, and I'm sure that nothing will budge you from that position.

Agreed, affirmed, etcetera. This post has my official stamp of approval.

:D

Have a link?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Duncan

I got it slightly wrong in that they locked her up in case she were to use her magic to tip off the Nazis rather than she had done.

We need to have reparation for white, protestant men, because they have to pay reparations out to everyone else. How unfair! Its holding them back! :mad:

What does my complaining about Native American reparations have to do with the debate on slavery reparations?


Because I have never once seen you whine about those things, making you a hypocrite.


Oh that's right, nothing. Again you are just trying to distract from the subject by implying that I'm inconsistent. As if that would somehow make an argument.


No, I am just pointing out that if you really cared for injustices, you would care about all of them rather then just the fashionable one to care about.


What does gender inequality have to do with slavery reparations?


Again, it's not about the inequality itself, but how you have chosen to ignore it. If you want reparations to be payed, you should want them to be payed to women and natives too.


You need to learn that if you spend a lot of time arguing against the welfare of black people and trying to thrust slavery under the bed

Wow, what an incredibly tenuous link. Of course he cares about the welfare of black people, stop pulling this paranoid delusional bullshit about how if you don't think reparations should payed as a sorry about the slave trade, you don't think any action should be done to help the welfare of black people.


- and by 'arguing' i mean 'making irrational rants' - that might be due to racism. This is not about disagreement with me on any subject.

Yes it is entirely to do with disagreement, as nothing can support your baseless assumption about wilgrove.

I'm British, gimme reparations for stealing our colonies :(

¬_¬

We need to have reparation for white, protestant men, because they have to pay reparations out to everyone else. How unfair! Its holding them back! :mad:

Two best posts in the thread.

Me, I demand reparations. No reason. Just like everyone else, I'm just after some free money.

Because I have never once seen you whine about those things, making you a hypocrite.

And "hypocrite" in this context is supposed to mean... what, exactly? That I'm wrong? That's just an ad hominem argument and is a logical fallacy. So what are you getting at then...? Just like to point out how you think other people are flawed?

No, I am just pointing out that if you really cared for injustices, you would care about all of them rather then just the fashionable one to care about.

Or maybe I don't go on a crusade against "all injustices." Do you? It is physically impossible for someone to care equally about each and every moral wrong and give each and every injustice an equal share of one's time and energy.

So you're against rape? AHA, but I don't see you up in arms against jaywalkers. If you were really against crime as you like to maintain, you would be! And in a thread about rape, you'd give "equal time" to each and every other crime... or else you're just being fashionable!

Come off it. Don't make me disembowel your "point" anymore.

Again, it's not about the inequality itself, but how you have chosen to ignore it. If you want reparations to be payed, you should want them to be payed to women and natives too.

Again, that's fucking irrelevant to the question of slavery reparations. And rather than focusing on that argument you're trying to bring in meaningless digressions as your roundabout way of making an ad hominem argument. "Aha! You're a hypocrite, therefore slavery reparations are without merit! I WIN!"

Wow, what an incredibly tenuous link. Of course he cares about the welfare of black people, stop pulling this paranoid delusional bullshit about how if you don't think reparations should payed as a sorry about the slave trade, you don't think any action should be done to help the welfare of black people.

Will reparations help the welfare of black people? Apparently some people think so.

Therefore if you oppose them you oppose the end, indirectly. And it seems whenever the subject comes up, instead of arguing about it on it's own merits, you have to insultingly bring up every other subject on the planet. Salem Witch Trials! You fucking kidding me? Are you honestly trying to make this comparison stick - slavery = Salem Witch Trials? And you called my "link" tenuous. Ha.

Yes it is entirely to do with disagreement, as nothing can support your baseless assumption about wilgrove.

Except this mysterious, obstinate and antagonistic (and irrational) attitude about this subject. Maybe if you people weren't being mindless and illogical about this - by making repeated fallacies and by actually refusing to discuss the issue - you wouldn't be called such nasty, baseless assumptions as perhaps being bigoted.

But it's not about me disagreeing with people. There are plenty of people I disagree with who I don't think or even suggest are racist. But then again, unlike plenty of people, Wilgrove thinks "everyone is a little bit racist," so is that not admission that he himself is at least a little bit racist? So yeah, maybe this thread is a little bit racist, and maybe his political view on slavery reparations is a little bit racist...

Well people are still trying to get a pardon, and probably compensation, for that witch the British locked up in WW2 for using her magic powers to give secrets to the Nazis.

Wasn't witchcraft a crime until like 1967?

I'm in favor of reparations for the disabled. We've been mistreated for thousands of years: left to die in caves in ancient Sparta, had "demons" exorcised out of us, left in asylums to rot, laughed at, ridiculed, faced de facto discrimination in transportation and housing and employment, denied insurance, etc...

And "hypocrite" in this context is supposed to mean... what, exactly? That I'm wrong? That's just an ad hominem argument and is a logical fallacy. So what are you getting at then...? Just like to point out how you think other people are flawed?

Or maybe I don't go on a crusade against "all injustices." Do you? It is physically impossible for someone to care equally about each and every moral wrong and give each and every injustice an equal share of one's time and energy.


Have you honestly not understood the point? The point is, if you want reparations to be payed to black people, you will have to pay reparations to many other groups of people such as women and natives. Such action will destroy the economy, so I don't expect you to realistically think this would be a good idea.


Will reparations help the welfare of black people? Apparently some people think so.

Therefore if you oppose them you oppose the end, indirectly. And it seems whenever the subject comes up, instead of arguing about it on it's own merits, you have to insultingly bring up every other subject on the planet. Salem Witch Trials! You fucking kidding me? Are you honestly trying to make this comparison stick - slavery = Salem Witch Trials? And you called my "link" tenuous. Ha.


There is already a considerable amount of money spent for the welfare of black people. If wilgrove hated black people, he would be against any spending at all, which he hasn't said to be so far. It's very simple.


Except this mysterious, obstinate and antagonistic (and irrational) attitude about this subject. Maybe if you people weren't being mindless and illogical about this - by making repeated fallacies and by actually refusing to discuss the issue - you wouldn't be called such nasty, baseless assumptions as perhaps being bigoted.


And you say my argument is based on ad hominems?


But it's not about me disagreeing with people. There are plenty of people I disagree with who I don't think or even suggest are racist. But then again, unlike plenty of people, Wilgrove thinks "everyone is a little bit racist," so is that not admission that he himself is at least a little bit racist? So yeah, maybe this thread is a little bit racist, and maybe his political view on slavery reparations is a little bit racist...

Again there are different types of racism, it's irrational to suggest that by "everyone is a little bit racist", he actually meant "everyone hates black people".

Have you honestly not understood the point? The point is, if you want reparations to be payed to black people, you will have to pay reparations to many other groups of people such as women and natives. Such action will destroy the economy, so I don't expect you to realistically think this would be a good idea.

why would it destroy the economy?

Have you honestly not understood the point? The point is, if you want reparations to be payed to black people, you will have to pay reparations to many other groups of people

Patently untrue. One is not dependent on the other.

There is already a considerable amount of money spent for the welfare of black people. If wilgrove hated black people, he would be against any spending at all, which he hasn't said to be so far. It's very simple.

I never said he "hated" them. Maybe he just thinks slavery is something everyone should get over. But as I said, others disagree, and when one is vehemently arguing against this subject to the point of irrationality (i.e this ongoing ad hominem - people who support slavery reparations are hypocrites, therefore slavery reparations are wrong) I personally have to wonder about the motives of those who do.

And you say my argument is based on ad hominems?

Sure. I'm sorry, was this supposed to zing me because I supposedly made an ad hominem? Calling your fallacies fallacies is not an ad hominem.

Again there are different types of racism, it's irrational to suggest that by "everyone is a little bit racist", he actually meant "everyone hates black people".

Yeah OK - he meant "everyone hates black people a little bit."

Sorry, you're not going to convince me that either "everyone is a little bit racist" is true or "little bit racist" is qualitatively different from "racist."

Patently untrue. One is not dependent on the other.


Yes they are, otherwise it is a massive double standard. Why should black people be given higher priority then women or natives?


I never said he "hated" them. Maybe he just thinks slavery is something everyone should get over. But as I said, others disagree, and when one is vehemently arguing against this subject to the point of irrationality (i.e this ongoing ad hominem - people who support slavery reparations are hypocrites, therefore slavery reparations are wrong) I personally have to wonder about the motives of those who do.


"Next up: Why I hate blacks but I'm not a racist. Topic by Wilgrove."

You seem to be saying that he does.


Sure. I'm sorry, was this supposed to zing me because I supposedly made an ad hominem? Calling your fallacies fallacies is not an ad hominem.


Simply saying "you're irrational, you're mindless" does not constitute an argument, it is the very definition of an ad hominem, attacking the poster and not the post.


Yeah OK - he meant "everyone hates black people a little bit."

Sorry, you're not going to convince me that either "everyone is a little bit racist" is true or "little bit racist" is qualitatively different from "racist."

Why do I have keep going back down to the basics, you should know that, at least to some people, racism is not just hating black people. You would describe prejudging a race as racist, no? But that isn't the same as hating black people.

Yes they are, otherwise it is a massive double standard. Why should black people be given higher priority then women or natives?

well, that would depend on the facts of whatever it is that requires repairing, no? since the things that hypothetically require reparation are different, then the arguments for and against them are independent - they stand or fall all on their own.