NationStates Jolt Archive

*Warning*


The following post is kind of like a diary entry, so don't bother reading it unless you want to know what I'm feeling or you want to give me advice.



So I wanted to see how many atheist go to Georgia College and State University(my school). I did a facebook search for atheism under religion. I found 29 matches. Now, the population of my school is about 6,000 and, granted they all don't use facebook, I am willing to bet that most of them do. If we assume only 10% of the students at GCSU are using facebook and displaying their religion, then about .05% of the students at my school are atheists. It must be considered that this is a college where the on an average day, I can count about 5-10 advertisements for various Christian communities while walking to class. The 5 largest student communities in the school are all church groups for Christian worship. The people in this school who I admire, who inspire me, who amaze me and who I think are really cute are all Christians(some of them are even fundamentalist Baptists who will argue creationism). I realize that religion has nothing to do with intellegence or creativity or charisma or anything else it seems like for that matter. I really don't know why all these amazing people are religious and I am not. But I feel a little isolated. I kind of want to be a Christian so I can relate to the people whom I love and admire instead of always wondering why they believe in god and jesus and whatnot. I really do want to be a Christian. But the problem is, I don't think I could believe in Christianity if I tried. I am a very skeptical person. In fact, I never believed in Santa Clause let alone God when I was a small little wee-one. I need proof! and a faith based religion would probably never personally work for me. So here I am, in a community that I love surrounded by friends I adore, and yet I am personally offended every time I hear Christian rhetoric or see people praying. I just feel really conflicted and a little sad because I guess I want to be like them but I can't. :(

I know that if I saw this post on this forum written by someone else, I would think that they are boring and a little selfish for making a post about themselves, but it feels really good to talk about my feelings with anonymous people who can't judge me in person.

Don't get sucked in, the fact that they call themselves 'Christians' indicates they try to separate themselves from the rest of society, as if they are not 'people' before 'Christians', seriously though my friends know my beliefs but have never been called a 'Communist', except in jest. Plain and simple, Christian fundamentalism is an unconsciousable pack mentality that tends to band together in mobs of like-minded deluded people, this is because their irrational beliefs don't seem so irrational when a big group shares them. I mean have you ever seen those people singing, that 'speaking in tongues' crazy crap, it's strange and most Christian communities are a run up the ladder from an indoctrination camp, stay away is my advise. Also remember that 'Christianity' and the 'Christians' your talking about believe totally different things, just for an example Jesus never talked out abortion yet his 'followers' have an obsession about it. Strange people.

Offended by seeing people pray? :confused:

Offended by seeing people pray? :confused:
I wouldn't say offended should be the right word, confused maybe, like the feeling you get when you see a disabled person talking to himself schizophrenically, same vein.

Don't get sucked in, the fact that they call themselves 'Christians' indicates they try to separate themselves from the rest of society, as if they are not 'people' before 'Christians', seriously though my friends know my beliefs but have never been called a 'Communist', except in jest. Plain and simple, Christian fundamentalism is an unconsciousable pack mentality that tends to band together in mobs of like-minded deluded people, this is because their irrational beliefs don't seem so irrational when a big group shares them. I mean have you ever seen those people singing, that 'speaking in tongues' crazy crap, it's strange and most Christian communities are a run up the ladder from an indoctrination camp, stay away is my advise. Also remember that 'Christianity' and the 'Christians' your talking about believe totally different things, just for an example Jesus never talked out abortion yet his 'followers' have an obsession about it. Strange people.

Yeah christianity dosen't really make any sense whatsoever. But the christians I see around me really seem like they share a special bond. Like they can all love and relate to each other through their religion. I know this sounds like cheese greeting card stuff but I have no better way of explaining it.

Offended by seeing people pray? :confused:

Yes I am offended. Its like they're trying to spread stupidity. I know these people aren't "legally" insane, but sometimes I wonder.

Yeah christianity dosen't really make any sense whatsoever. But the christians I see around me really seem like they share a special bond. Like they can all love and relate to each other through their religion. I know this sounds like cheese greeting card stuff but I have no better way of explaining it.

You shouldn't think that way, people become friends and talk because we are social creatures, not because we all share a religion, the personality is the issue, people aren't going to magically become different because they have these specific beliefs. Believe me, in high school their was a 'Jesus group' and when it came down to it they were a remarkably arrogant and restrictive group who never associated with anyone outside it, I would whince in awkwardness in social science classes or whatever when one of them starting an abortion tirade or something.

So far from the tolerant and all-embracing nature of 'Christ', 'Christians' are totally different, and try to stand on moral high ground for everything, someone being a 'Christian' makes someone a better person, the whole 'born again' stuff is nothing but brainwashing and exclusive cults, you shouldn't get involved, when it comes down to it they are fanatics.

Long story short, if they even believed anything in the gospel, they wouldn't need to call each other 'Christians'(which is form of self-exultation), they would prove it by being compassionate, tolerant etc...

Offended by seeing people pray? :confused:

Well, I know that as a person who prays, you might not realize it, but the public exposition of religion, while it is a critical right that should be celebrated, is confrontational. It is rude, it is a form of peer pressure, and, whether the intent is different, it feels like an attack.

Offended by seeing people pray? :confused:

Why not ? The act of praying is a way of declaring inferiority, subservience, dependence and begging for favours from some other lifeform, which may or may not exist.

That fellow humans lower themselves like that can be somewhat offensive by association to nonbelievers.

I won't go so far as to say that I think praying is offensive, but I'm an atheist and proud of it!

Now, on to your problem. What you're seeing around you is a large number of people with something in common. In your case, that's Christianity, and you're not a member. If people don't actively exclude you from anything because you're an atheist, my advice is to just shrug your shoulders and say, "I'm different. It's cool. I'm allowed to be, in this country, and I'm not going to care anymore." Or, you know, something.

If people do exclude you for being an atheist, then I would strongly suggest that you try to move in other circles. There are people (in a college of 6,000, I'm sure there are) who don't care if you're Christian, Atheist or Pastafarian. In fact, you know of twenty-nine atheists via the magic of facebook. Message them. Say that you're an atheist, that you want to talk to a non-Christian about life, and ask to meet up for coffee (or sweet tea, it is Georgia). Extra points if your selected atheist is a cute girl.

In all seriousness, I can understand that it'd be a bit scary to message someone by saying 'yo, I'm a lonely atheist. Talk to me?'. I probably wouldn't, if I were you, because I'm not an outgoing person in that way (I show off, I talk, I don't have personal conversations). But if it's that big a problem for you, if it really bothers you that you're the 'only one' that you know of, you should try to make new friends who you share something in common with.

After all, isn't that what friendship is?

-snip-
When in doubt, acknowledge that since the only real knowledge you can gain of the world comes from personal encounter, neither you nor they can really assert total correctness in belief. Since both you and your peers ground your understanding in supposition, hearsay and interpretation, and are all just trying to do the best with what you've got, the sense of conflict becomes somewhat diminished and you can get on with enjoying each others' company more without worrying about the difference in world view.

Yes I am offended. Its like they're trying to spread stupidity. I know these people aren't "legally" insane, but sometimes I wonder.qft & ftw

Yeah christianity dosen't really make any sense whatsoever. But the christians I see around me really seem like they share a special bond. Like they can all love and relate to each other through their religion. I know this sounds like cheese greeting card stuff but I have no better way of explaining it.

You said it, they relate to each other through their religion, take their religion away and you have a pack of zombies. If they relate to you it's because you have a common ground, and that is their main ground, to most of them you are worth socializing with because you agree on religion, otherwise they have nothing to say because they can't handle controversy as it doesn't exist to them, they are the righteous and most others are sinners because they dare to question. I know of that because I did question the doctrine of the catholic church, as a "then" catholic, the answer was straight forward: you have to believe without questioning the faith ! I am not a sheep.... I am a damned bull, but I don't like the bullshit of self righteousness.

Yeah christianity dosen't really make any sense whatsoever. But the christians I see around me really seem like they share a special bond. Like they can all love and relate to each other through their religion. I know this sounds like cheese greeting card stuff but I have no better way of explaining it.

You said it, they relate to each other through their religion, take their religion away and you have a pack of zombies. If they relate to you it's because you have a common ground, and that is their main ground, to most of them you are worth socializing with because you agree on religion, otherwise they have nothing to say because they can't handle controversy as it doesn't exist to them, they are the righteous and most others are sinners because they dare to question. I know of that because I did question the doctrine of the catholic church, as a "then" catholic, the answer was straight forward: you have to believe without questioning the faith ! I am not a sheep.... I am a damned bull, but I don't like the bullshit of religious self righteousness.

Yes I am offended. Its like they're trying to spread stupidity. I know these people aren't "legally" insane, but sometimes I wonder.
Well the law is fallible I am afraid, religion is indeed a form of mental illness, especially when you see that speaking in tongues and the like, it can be nothing else. We should be sympathetic though to sick people like that, they obviously need help.

Oh you aren't talking about the Falklands.

Yes I am offended. Its like they're trying to spread stupidity. I know these people aren't "legally" insane, but sometimes I wonder.

All the more reason these atheists and their ridiculously inaccurate knowledge of religion must be stopped.

Firstly, I wouldn't trust a facebook 'survey' as conclusive, many people I know don't put that kind of information on their profile.

Secondly, religion doesn't have to play a part in a friendship. It can be a common bond, but I'd hope no-one actively chooses their friends based on their religion. Find other things in common with people, despite the oddities of their religion, they are still normal people.

All the more reason these atheists and their ridiculously inaccurate knowledge of religion must be stopped.

As opposed to Christianity's ridiculously inaccurate knowledge of reality?

As opposed to Christianity's ridiculously inaccurate knowledge of reality?

That's completely wrong. I bet you still think a materialistic origin of the universe is valid.

That's completely wrong. I bet you still think a materialistic origin of the universe is valid.
All sane people, except of course that exclusive extremist sect known as 'Christianity', sorry but science (most notably carbon dating, development of the hominoid brain etc) disproves everything Christianity stands upon. Sorry but the progression of reason and logic has stamped out any credibility of your false superstitions. What we see today are the violent death throes of reactionary and backward thinking finally sensing it's own irrelevance, and like a cornered beast is lashing out. We are finally entering a period of human history when we can conceptualize our existence in terms of materialistic history, where we don't have to make up superstitions to console our fear of the unknown.

All sane people, except of course that exclusive extremist sect known as 'Christianity', sorry but science (most notably carbon dating, development of the hominoid brain etc) disproves everything Christianity stands upon. Sorry but the progression of reason and logic has stamped out any credibility of your false superstitions. What we see today are the violent death throes of reactionary and backward thinking finally sensing it's own irrelevance, and like a cornered beast is lashing out. We are finally entering a period of human history when we can conceptualize our existence in terms of materialistic history, where we don't have to make up superstitions to console our fear of the unknown.
how does Science disprove everything Christianity stands on?

how does Science disprove everything Christianity stands on?

Heh I was just about to ask that. Science has disproved many things from the Bible, young earth and literal Genesis creation for example, but to say it has disproved everything shows a blatant ignorance of what faith and science are.

All the more reason these atheists and their ridiculously inaccurate knowledge of religion must be stopped.That's funny. Normally it's the religious folks who know jack shit about religions, and their own respective religion in particular. Most atheists have become atheists exactly because they have replaced assumptions and beliefs with knowledge.

If you're feeling alone and isolated then there are almost certainly other atheists at your college who feel the same way. Why don't you start a CASH Chapter (Campus Atheists, Sceptics and Humanists) or similar social event?

I bet you still think a materialistic origin of the universe is valid.

It is.

It is.

Although, of course, what exactly that "material" is has gotten a lot stranger in recent years...

*Warning*


The following post is kind of like a diary entry, so don't bother reading it unless you want to know what I'm feeling or you want to give me advice.



So I wanted to see how many atheist go to Georgia College and State University(my school). I did a facebook search for atheism under religion. I found 29 matches. Now, the population of my school is about 6,000 and, granted they all don't use facebook, I am willing to bet that most of them do. If we assume only 10% of the students at GCSU are using facebook and displaying their religion, then about .05% of the students at my school are atheists. It must be considered that this is a college where the on an average day, I can count about 5-10 advertisements for various Christian communities while walking to class. The 5 largest student communities in the school are all church groups for Christian worship. The people in this school who I admire, who inspire me, who amaze me and who I think are really cute are all Christians(some of them are even fundamentalist Baptists who will argue creationism). I realize that religion has nothing to do with intellegence or creativity or charisma or anything else it seems like for that matter. I really don't know why all these amazing people are religious and I am not. But I feel a little isolated. I kind of want to be a Christian so I can relate to the people whom I love and admire instead of always wondering why they believe in god and jesus and whatnot. I really do want to be a Christian. But the problem is, I don't think I could believe in Christianity if I tried. I am a very skeptical person. In fact, I never believed in Santa Clause let alone God when I was a small little wee-one. I need proof! and a faith based religion would probably never personally work for me. So here I am, in a community that I love surrounded by friends I adore, and yet I am personally offended every time I hear Christian rhetoric or see people praying. I just feel really conflicted and a little sad because I guess I want to be like them but I can't. :(

I know that if I saw this post on this forum written by someone else, I would think that they are boring and a little selfish for making a post about themselves, but it feels really good to talk about my feelings with anonymous people who can't judge me in person.


search out people who dont care much about religion. there are lots of them even at your rather religious school. avoid religious discussions altogether. if a person cant not talk about their faith, avoid them altogether.

plan to move out of the bible belt as soon as you can. there is no sense surrounding yourself with people you dont feel you can relate to.

Yes I am offended. Its like they're trying to spread stupidity. I know these people aren't "legally" insane, but sometimes I wonder.
So what ever happened to tolerance?

If you're going to college at GCSU, you should really expect that sort of environment. If you want a more secular state college, go to Athens and attend UGA.

Although, of course, what exactly that "material" is has gotten a lot stranger in recent years...

Of course, the existence and present lack of knowledge about dark matter and dark energy in no way invalidates a purely materialistic origin.
It just means that astrophysics just got a little more interesting.

So, you want to become a Christian not because you believe their teachings but because you want to fit in? Forgive me if my terminology is wrong, but in any other group, you'd be called a poser for this. XP I thought you're supposed to leave that immature crap behind you in high school?

If you want to be friends with someone, you be friends with someone. Religion isn't a huge boundary unless you make it one, just like anything else. I have lots of religious friends, myself being athiest. That doesn't stop me from being friends with them.

Of course, the existence and present lack of knowledge about dark matter and dark energy in no way invalidates a purely materialistic origin. It just means that astrophysics just got a little more interesting.

I think it's showing "material" encompasses a lot more than we think it does.

So what ever happened to tolerance?

If you're going to college at GCSU, you should really expect that sort of environment. If you want a more secular state college, go to Athens and attend UGA.

Honestly, we've got a lot of Christians here too. But a fairly large amount of them don't jump down your throat for being different. Hell, when campus preachers like the infamous Brother Micah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brother_Micah) come by, some of his better shouting matches occur against Christians.

If you want to be friends with someone, you be friends with someone. Religion isn't a huge boundary unless you make it one, just like anything else. I have lots of religious friends, myself being athiest. That doesn't stop me from being friends with them.
Exactly. I'm avowedly atheist, yet I still love my Christian parents, and they love me.

We're all going to meet people in our lifetimes who have very different views to us, yet who we respect and cherish. Not being able to do this is, IMO, a sign of immaturity.

Yeah christianity dosen't really make any sense whatsoever. But the christians I see around me really seem like they share a special bond. Like they can all love and relate to each other through their religion. I know this sounds like cheese greeting card stuff but I have no better way of explaining it.

Oh, quite the contrary.


I have never in my life met a group of people that are more bitter, harsh, fiercely territorial, calculating, gossip-ready, popularity seeking, social climbing, image obsessed, back handed, forked tongued, back stabbing, manipulative, self indulgent, horrible people in my life.

Christians are not happy go lucky people who form a bond together and love each other. Sure, in the face of opposition (anyone who disagrees with them) they can mount a facade of unity and loyalty by laying claim to one enemy, but if you ever manage to gain their trust and slip in behind enemy lines, you find a much worse social environment that surpasses any public high school.

*snip the OP*


First things first -- OI! You two debating science and creation? Yeah, WRONG THREAD. The OP is looking for advice, not some prick-waving dickfight about origin theory, mkay?

Okay, now that THAT's done...

I completely understand your position. The department I was in at my university underwent a sizeable shift toward Christianity when I was an undergraduate. I even had an attractive girl Christian "convert" me by offering herself as my girlfriend...for a week...and when the "job was done", she went back to courting her hot Christian friends, and attempting to convert the other heathens -- so long as they were good looking.

NOT ALL CHRISTIANS ARE LIKE THAT. In the same time frame, I met a man who once told me "God doesn't want idiots for followers." He and people like him are the Christians I respect. They are intelligent, rational people, who have found that faith buoys their spirits in times of need and times of gladness. They frowned upon those who were showy about their faith (such as those who wore all black on Good Friday to publicly mourn the anniversary of Jesus' death) and explained to me that the presence of God was a far more subtle thing than most evangelicals owuld have you believe.

As of now, I perceive evidence of the divine in the way I feel when I see some amazing scenery, a riot-colored sunset, or hear five part harmony in tune. There's no psychological or even evolutionary need for me to feel that way, so I classify myself as a Deist, kinda like Jefferson and many others have.

I am still a skeptic about much of Christian doctrine/dogma/canon/tenets, and I am infinitely skeptical about the people in religious seats of power and their motivations and their means of motivating their followers in word and deed as well as money.

So when I see people praying -- I teach at a catholic university, that happens rather a lot -- or when I'm asked to pray, I bow my head, count my blessings, think about my family and friends and basically express that I'm glad I get to be here. I don't direct it anywhere specific, but I believe that thoughts held in mind produce after their kind, so I try to think good ones. Only conspicuous, preachy praying really gets me riled, and even then I realize that we all have our way of relating to the world. So long as they're not launching into any bullshit about me, my family, people I know or generalizing horribly, I can tolerate it fine.

Soyut, I guess my point is that part of your problem is you. Once you recognize that these people you respect aren't being forced at gunpoint to believe what they believe, and that their religion isn't something that could or should be "taken away" by anyone, but rather, it's as much a part of them as their blood and helped create the personalities you claim to admire -- once you get that -- the praying will seem no more offensive than someone's lisp, limp, stutter, brown eyes, black hair, cafe-au-lait skin, heart murmur, epilepsy, Tourette's, white teeth, mole, birthmark, laugh, nose, arm, torso, or anything. It's a part of them.

Best part? If they're truly thinking people, their faith will *gasp* evolve over time and as they grow older and see more of the world in context as opposed to through the window of their limited experience before getting to college. I know it because I was once a card-carrying, debate-on-sight, Christianity-is-stupid-type atheist. I grew through agnosticism and have arrived at acknowledging the Divine in the world. Yoga has helped me focus, hiking has connected me to nature. I drew my inspiration from many sources, lots of reading, and most of all -- LOTS of conversations.

I urge you to continue to be yourself, but not to immediately write off someone who prays or does other religious things until you have good reason to do so. You never know what you might learn. Bashing something so venerated as religion always seems cool at first, but then you realize that we're all human beings, and we all deserve to be left to our own devices. That thought started me down my path as I stopped seeking confrontation with the overtly pious and only chllenged them when they brought their sectarian turmoil on to my front door.

Of course, feel free to dismiss me as a complete jackass, too. It's up to you.

*Warning*


The following post is kind of like a diary entry, so don't bother reading it unless you want to know what I'm feeling or you want to give me advice.

NSG is not your blog.

Oh, quite the contrary.


I have never in my life met a group of people that are more bitter, harsh, fiercely territorial, calculating, gossip-ready, popularity seeking, social climbing, image obsessed, back handed, forked tongued, back stabbing, manipulative, self indulgent, horrible people in my life.

Christians are not happy go lucky people who form a bond together and love each other. Sure, in the face of opposition (anyone who disagrees with them) they can mount a facade of unity and loyalty by laying claim to one enemy, but if you ever manage to gain their trust and slip in behind enemy lines, you find a much worse social environment that surpasses any public high school.

I have seen that first hand. It's like some of them are fighting secret wars to determine which of them is more Godlike. It can get pathetic, and it's certainly un-Christian.

NSG is not your blog.

Okay. I know that's a popular charge to levy in here, but the OP has stirred some genuine debate, so I think that in this case, we can leave the "get a blog" trope at the door. Trust me, I was all set to make that very post until I read the thread.

The OP, though admittedly in bloggish fashion, has made an honest inquiry about how, as an atheist, one might deal with people who he likes and respects, but who are also deeply religious. It's a tough question, and, bloggish though it may be, it deserves consideration.

Oh, quite the contrary.


I have never in my life met a group of people that are more bitter, harsh, fiercely territorial, calculating, gossip-ready, popularity seeking, social climbing, image obsessed, back handed, forked tongued, back stabbing, manipulative, self indulgent, horrible people in my life.

Christians are not happy go lucky people who form a bond together and love each other. Sure, in the face of opposition (anyone who disagrees with them) they can mount a facade of unity and loyalty by laying claim to one enemy, but if you ever manage to gain their trust and slip in behind enemy lines, you find a much worse social environment that surpasses any public high school.

While I probably would not word it as harshly I agree some of those old church ladies and guys are some of the most judgmental people I have ever met in my life. They are harsh and the most clique based group I have ever encountered.

Oh, quite the contrary.


I have never in my life met a group of people that are more bitter, harsh, fiercely territorial, calculating, gossip-ready, popularity seeking, social climbing, image obsessed, back handed, forked tongued, back stabbing, manipulative, self indulgent, horrible people in my life.

Christians are not happy go lucky people who form a bond together and love each other. Sure, in the face of opposition (anyone who disagrees with them) they can mount a facade of unity and loyalty by laying claim to one enemy, but if you ever manage to gain their trust and slip in behind enemy lines, you find a much worse social environment that surpasses any public high school.
In the interest of science, I would like you to list these people that you know. Don't worry, I have no idea where you live and cannot possibly find them to tell them what you think of them. But I would like for you to prove your statement. Otherwise, it is entirely faith-based.

But I would like for you to prove your statement. Otherwise, it is entirely faith-based.
Not to interrupt, but the above quote reflects what I think to be a flawed approach to knowledge. Any notion of "proof" relies upon an axiomatic system of supposed deduction that must be accepted on faith if one is to assert that it corresponds to that which is "true".

You may continue.

Prayer is hate speech.
Only if it's hate prayer. "Dear God, why can't people just get along?" hardly seems like hate speech, whatever else you might accuse it of.

Well, I know that as a person who prays, you might not realize it, but the public exposition of religion, while it is a critical right that should be celebrated, is confrontational. It is rude, it is a form of peer pressure, and, whether the intent is different, it feels like an attack.

Prayer is hate speech.

So what ever happened to tolerance?

If you're going to college at GCSU, you should really expect that sort of environment. If you want a more secular state college, go to Athens and attend UGA.
Expectation shouldn't entail respect, I for one know my beliefs were formed through rational and critical discourse, religion on the other hand is willful suspension of critical thought in order to console your lack of knowledge, it's willful ignorance at best, intentional bigotry more likely. I don't anyone should have to respect religious belief, if they could prove any of their claims scientifically that would entail respect of them, but seeing they cannot and prefer blind submission then I will continue to give them what they deserve, no respect.

Not to interrupt, but the above quote reflects what I think to be a flawed approach to knowledge. Any notion of "proof" relies upon an axiomatic system of supposed deduction that must be accepted on faith if one is to assert that it corresponds to that which is "true".

You may continue.
I agree. But when trying to prove scientific propositions, we usually take an empirical approach, one that is inductive. If One World Alliance is able to show that all known Christians display the characteristics he or she described, then we can scientifically say he or she is correct. If not, the statement is just as wrong as a flat earth, and any attempt to say otherwise would be pseudoscience.

Expectation shouldn't entail respect, I for one know my beliefs were formed through rational and critical discourse
Oh, for crying out loud...
I seriously doubt all of your beliefs were formed through rational and critical discourse. However, even if they were, so what? Why is "rational and critical discourse" good and faith bad? Is that something you discovered with your "rational and critical discourse"?

Expectation shouldn't entail respect, I for one know my beliefs were formed through rational and critical discourse, religion on the other hand is willful suspension of critical thought in order to console your lack of knowledge, it's willful ignorance at best, intentional bigotry more likely. I don't anyone should have to respect religious belief, if they could prove any of their claims scientifically that would entail respect of them, but seeing they cannot and prefer blind submission then I will continue to give them what they deserve, no respect.
I'm glad that not everyone I meet is as full of themselves as you are. It would be a pretty cold world if all we had was rational and critical discourse.

Personally, I find a lot of comfort in saying a prayer and a lot of optimism in the hope and faith that religion offers.

Oh, quite the contrary.


I have never in my life met a group of people that are more bitter, harsh, fiercely territorial, calculating, gossip-ready, popularity seeking, social climbing, image obsessed, back handed, forked tongued, back stabbing, manipulative, self indulgent, horrible people in my life.

Christians are not happy go lucky people who form a bond together and love each other. Sure, in the face of opposition (anyone who disagrees with them) they can mount a facade of unity and loyalty by laying claim to one enemy, but if you ever manage to gain their trust and slip in behind enemy lines, you find a much worse social environment that surpasses any public high school.Some Christians are like that, but certainly not all of them.