NationStates Jolt Archive

...Is Putin nuts? People are protesting in Russia and he's flexing Russia's muscle in very...unpleasant ways. Does he want to bring back the USSR?



Here's the latest story.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/article2936999.ece

And here's the previous story
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2302783.ece

At a guess, Putin is attempting to establish what the west will and will not tolerate from Russia before proceeding with whatever vision he has for the country.

Sneaky fucking Russians.

It's good Putin is reasserting Russia after Yeltsin threw it in the toilet.

If Russia thinks it can handle another cold war, it's sorely mistaken. Their economy is barely a fraction of ours and entirely dependent on exports of oil and natural gas for its growth and foreign exchange. They wouldn't stand a chance in a prolonged arms race against China, let alone the United States.

...Is Putin nuts? People are protesting in Russia and he's flexing Russia's muscle in very...unpleasant ways. Does he want to bring back the USSR?



Here's the latest story.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/article2936999.ece

And here's the previous story
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2302783.ece

What Protests? your articles didn't say anything about protests...

At a guess, Putin is attempting to establish what the west will and will not tolerate from Russia before proceeding with whatever vision he has for the country.

I agree with chris

It's good Putin is reasserting Russia after Yeltsin threw it in the toilet.

Having lived in a soviet block country for 13 years of my life, all Yeltsin did was flush the crap that was already in the toilet, because it's stench was polluting all around it.


Please don't tell me your one of those new age "communists" who think it's "cool" to act like Lenin and the KGB gang were good people.

I see what Putin is doing and it truly makes me a bit scared.

It's good Putin is reasserting Russia after Yeltsin threw it in the toilet.

AP, Corrupt statist pricks will hinder the revolution, not help it.

If Russia thinks it can handle another cold war, it's sorely mistaken. Their economy is barely a fraction of ours and entirely dependent on exports of oil and natural gas for its growth and foreign exchange. They wouldn't stand a chance in a prolonged arms race against China, let alone the United States.
Well neither could the US afford it either, but I doubt that's what he's planning, Putin will most likely just sell off excess military equipment to other countries to outbalance the US, which is exactly what he is doing.

Having lived in a soviet block country for 13 years of my life, all Yeltsin did was flush the crap that was already in the toilet, because it's stench was polluting all around it.


Please don't tell me your one of those new age "communists" who think it's "cool" to act like Lenin and the KGB gang were good people.

I see what Putin is doing and it truly makes me a bit scared.
Ummm no, Yeltsin did more damage economically to Russia than Hitler (yes he did), tens of millions instantly unemployment or thrown into horrible abject poverty, over a million dead, thousands of Russians instantly outside their own borders, wars with the former soviet states, leaving Russia all but undefended, that is Yeltsins contribution. The Soviet Union gave full employment, a sense of direction in life, free health care, Yeltsin turn that all on it's head - massive unemployment, hopelessness resulting in massive population downturns, in the Soviet Union AIDS did not exist, now unofficially the country is swarming with it.

Putin has put the country back on track and the oligarchs who tried to screw it for their own profit where they belong, in jail or a grave, I applaud this, after Yeltsin threw the country into the heap with 'shock therapy' Russia needed a strong leader to steer it on track. He has reasserted the Russian state against the corrupt oligarchs and minority political groups who would see Russia back to the days of Yeltsin. It's no surprise that Putin's popularity is soaring and traitor like Gorbachev and Yeltsin are the most hated people in Russia, the only support they have are from the foreign westerners who gang raped the eastern bloc to pay their debt after the wall came down.

Ummm no, Yeltsin did more damage economically to Russia than Hitler (yes he did), tens of millions instantly unemployment or thrown into horrible abject poverty, over a million dead, thousands of Russians instantly outside their own borders, wars with the former soviet states, leaving Russia all but undefended, that is Yeltsins contribution. The Soviet Union gave full employment, a sense of direction in life, free health care, Yeltsin turn that all on it's head - massive unemployment, hopelessness resulting in massive population downturns, in the Soviet Union AIDS did not exist, now unofficially the country is swarming with it.

Putin has put the country back on track and the oligarchs who tried to screw it for their own profit where they belong, in jail or a grave, I applaud this, after Yeltsin threw the country into the heap with 'shock therapy' Russia needed a strong leader to steer it on track. He has reasserted the Russian state against the corrupt oligarchs and minority political groups who would see Russia back to the days of Yeltsin. It's no surprise that Putin's popularity is soaring and traitor like Gorbachev and Yeltsin are the most hated people in Russia, the only support they have are from the foreign westerners who gang raped the eastern bloc to pay their debt after the wall came down.

Over a million dead compared to what exactly, can you even comprehend the amount of people who were killed by former soviet leader?

Approximately 20 million for Stalin alone.

Of course AIDS didn't exist in soviet union, neither did the mob, or the work camps.

Maybe you think it was a great system, and I and encourage YOU to go live there if they ever get back to their former status. I know I won't ever live somewhere like that again.

Well neither could the US afford it either, but I doubt that's what he's planning, Putin will most likely just sell off excess military equipment to other countries to outbalance the US, which is exactly what he is doing.

But the US even has him there. We can produce a lot more as well as spend a lot more on R&D than Russia can; they're really outmatched in this.

If Russia thinks it can handle another cold war, it's sorely mistaken. Their economy is barely a fraction of ours and entirely dependent on exports of oil and natural gas for its growth and foreign exchange. They wouldn't stand a chance in a prolonged arms race against China, let alone the United States.

dosen't China get most of its weapons from Russia? I know it used to.

dosen't China get most of its weapons from Russia? I know it used to.

I think they still do, but China's putting a lot of money in to domestic and reverse-engineered weapons. It's better to produce and develop your equipment domestically rather than rely on imports, strategically speaking. They already have enough dependence on Russia as is with their oil and gas needs, so the government is likely keen to become more autonomous in places it is able.

*snip*

AP's armchair theories versus live witness statements. I'll take live witness statements.

...Is Putin nuts? People are protesting in Russia and he's flexing Russia's muscle in very...unpleasant ways. Does he want to bring back the USSR?

It's been happening for a while, not just now. Not even ending the Cold War completly stopped the patrols.

And besides, the Tu-95 is a magnificent aircraft. :)

...Is Putin nuts?Guh. He is Russian after all. They do silly things.

AP's armchair theories versus live witness statements. I'll take live witness statements.

I don't think he recalls just how shitty the USSR was by the time it collapsed. Really, the economy hadn't grown appreciably since the mid 1970's, and by the mid 80's it was riding entirely on its rapidly fading oil profits. Everything else was in shambles. The book Lenin's Tomb really shows just how grating that system had become in the hands of the incompetent and corrupt.

It sure as hell wasn't the fairly prosperous and rapidly developing superpower of the 1950's and 1960's...once Khrushchev was ousted and Brezhnev somehow convinced himself that neo-Stalinist policies were the way to go, it was pretty much downhill from there. Gone was any chance of continued economic growth or development (although how long the Soviet system could have survived regardless of its leaders is debatable in and of itself).

Having lived in a soviet block country for 13 years of my life, all Yeltsin did was flush the crap that was already in the toilet, because it's stench was polluting all around it.


Please don't tell me your one of those new age "communists" who think it's "cool" to act like Lenin and the KGB gang were good people.

I see what Putin is doing and it truly makes me a bit scared.


Ahh, Aspadan, you've made the age-old mistake of thinking that your personal experience under communism makes you more qualified on the subject than American kids who spend their parent's money on Che Guevara tshirts and god knows what else, then as an encore embrace communism as some form of rebellion b/c it pisses their parents off. How dare you?

How is it that so many people ahve yet to realize that rhetoric > facts?

Ahh, Aspadan, you've made the age-old mistake of thinking that your personal experience under communism makes you more qualified on the subject than American kids who spend their parent's money on Che Guevara tshirts and god knows what else, then as an encore embrace communism as some form of rebellion b/c it pisses their parents off. How dare you?

I'm guessing that above post was sarcasm. :D

Guevara was basically a war criminal, check him out on Wikipedia. He left many nations in South America and Africe under dictatorships.

In regards to Communism being a crap system of government, I'll take Aspadan's word for it. Unfortunatly there are plently of middle-class teens in Western nations who want something to rebel against and they choose to rebel against capitalism... until they get a comfortable office job.

Ahh, Aspadan, you've made the age-old mistake of thinking that your personal experience under communism makes you more qualified on the subject than American kids who spend their parent's money on Che Guevara tshirts and god knows what else, then as an encore embrace communism as some form of rebellion b/c it pisses their parents off. How dare you?

I'm guessing that above post was sarcasm. :D

Guevara was basically a war criminal, check him out on Wikipedia. He left many nations in South America and Africe under dictatorships.

In regards to Communism being a crap system of government, I'll take Aspadan's word for it. Unfortunatly there are plently of middle-class teens in Western nations who want something to rebel against and they choose to rebel against capitalism... until they get a comfortable office job.

And besides, the Tu-95 is a magnificent aircraft. :)

Tu-95 sucks. It's best use was as a maritime patrol aircraft, not a bomber. The Badger and Backfire are each better bombers.

Tu-95 sucks. It's best use was as a maritime patrol aircraft, not a bomber. The Badger and Backfire are each better bombers.

The Blackjack is even better than those, with a bomb ordnance of 40 000 kg and reaching Mach 2.

The Blackjack is even better than those, with a bomb ordnance of 40 000 kg and reaching Mach 2.

But the Blackjack was never mass produced in the numbers necessary to make it effective.

But the Blackjack was never mass produced in the numbers necessary to make it effective.

Yea i was never able to get the blackjacks in the numbers i needed either. An alternative is the doubledown but not nearly as effective.

But the US even has him there. We can produce a lot more as well as spend a lot more on R&D than Russia can; they're really outmatched in this.
Russia has alot of stuff lying around from the Cold War, and many countries would buy it considering the price, I mean just the other day Putin sold in person helicopters and submarines to the Indonesians. I think also reactions are key, I mean he gave Chavez the Sukhois and the conservatives in the US were raging.

Putin has put the country back on track and the oligarchs who tried to screw it for their own profit where they belong, in jail or a grave, I applaud this, after Yeltsin threw the country into the heap with 'shock therapy' Russia needed a strong leader to steer it on track. He has reasserted the Russian state against the corrupt oligarchs and minority political groups who would see Russia back to the days of Yeltsin.

Putin has done nothing to eliminate oligarchy in Russia...he's simply taken one group of oligarchs out of power and replaced them with another group of oligarchs.

I actually somewhat admire Putin. I don't agree with much of what he does, but he's a cold and efficient operator who knows all about how to manipulate the political climate in Russia.

As for the bomber flights...it's cheaper to send a few bombers on patrol than to send an SSBN on an extended cruise. Considering maintenance issues with Russia's land based ICBM's, and their severely downsized SSBN force, bombers are the best strategic force that Russia has left...

...might as well get the crews trained up, it's a hell of a lot cheaper than trying to rebuild the SSBN fleet or fix a few thousand missiles. And if Russia gets to rattle it's saber a little on top of it, fine...it doesn't bug me, Putin knows all about MAD.

I don't think he recalls just how shitty the USSR was by the time it collapsed. Really, the economy hadn't grown appreciably since the mid 1970's, and by the mid 80's it was riding entirely on its rapidly fading oil profits. Everything else was in shambles. The book Lenin's Tomb really shows just how grating that system had become in the hands of the incompetent and corrupt.

It sure as hell wasn't the fairly prosperous and rapidly developing superpower of the 1950's and 1960's...once Khrushchev was ousted and Brezhnev somehow convinced himself that neo-Stalinist policies were the way to go, it was pretty much downhill from there. Gone was any chance of continued economic growth or development (although how long the Soviet system could have survived regardless of its leaders is debatable in and of itself).

And yet, no economic downturn has been greater than the introduction of capitalism, Putin has put Russia in a good economic position specifically because he went after the thieving oligarchs.

Russia has alot of stuff lying around from the Cold War, and many countries would buy it considering the price, I mean just the other day Putin sold in person helicopters and submarines to the Indonesians. I think also reactions are key, I mean he gave Chavez the Sukhois and the conservatives in the US were raging.

http://www.exile.ru/articles/detail.php?ARTICLE_ID=8319&IBLOCK_ID=35

Big fat waste of Chavez's money, if you ask me.

http://www.exile.ru/articles/detail.php?ARTICLE_ID=8319&IBLOCK_ID=35

Big fat waste of Chavez's money, if you ask me.

Please come back when you have impartial articles to share.

But the Blackjack was never mass produced in the numbers necessary to make it effective.

True, only a few have been produced. But it's still an amazing aircraft.

Please come back when you have impartial articles to share.

:rolleyes:

How 'bout you try taking off your blinders and reading between the lines for once?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CLe6fhBejNI

I'm ashamed its taken upto Page 3 to post this!

Over a million dead compared to what exactly, can you even comprehend the amount of people who were killed by former soviet leader?

Approximately 20 million for Stalin alone.

Of course AIDS didn't exist in soviet union, neither did the mob, or the work camps.

Maybe you think it was a great system, and I and encourage YOU to go live there if they ever get back to their former status. I know I won't ever live somewhere like that again.Don't try to argue with AP. His version of reality is a little at odds with, well, reality.

I'm guessing that above post was sarcasm. :D

Guevara was basically a war criminal, check him out on Wikipedia. He left many nations in South America and Africe under dictatorships.

In regards to Communism being a crap system of government, I'll take Aspadan's word for it. Unfortunatly there are plently of middle-class teens in Western nations who want something to rebel against and they choose to rebel against capitalism... until they get a comfortable office job.

I think you nailed these [strangely] popular Communist views in internet forums. Because (living in USSR myself) Communism wasn't too much fun.

I think it asks for one nice picture:

Wassercraft, on the contrary, I think it's you and other 'keyboard conservatives' who lie about living in the former USSR and are like that.

Wassercraft, on the contrary, I think it's you and other 'keyboard conservatives' who lie about living in the former USSR and are like that.Like Solschenizyn?

Wassercraft, on the contrary, I think it's you and other 'keyboard conservatives' who lie about living in the former USSR and are like that.

If the Soviet Union is so great, then why did millions risk their lives to flee to the West? Why didn't millions of Westerners try to flee to the East? Why did the Soviet Union and its puppet states see the need to make it impossible for its people to leave?

Oh and when are you going to answer a question I posed you a few days ago in another thread?

If the Soviet Union is so great, then why did millions risk their lives to flee to the West?Class traitors, paid by the west *nods* Why didn't millions of Westerners try to flee to the East?They were either a) working for the revolution - like AP - or b) filthy bourgeoise pigs oppressing a)
Why did the Soviet Union and its puppet states see the need to make it impossible for its people to leave?This is a lie. it was called 'Antifaschistischer Schutzwall' (Antifascist Protection Fortification... Or something. Doesn't translate well into english) for a reason! They built it to prevent agents of the western bourgeoisie from entering the paradise of the east! Nobody ever fled the east *nods again*

At a guess, Putin is attempting to establish what the west will and will not tolerate from Russia before proceeding with whatever vision he has for the country.

Bet dollars to doughnuts this is a buildup to a seizure of the Arctic region and it's energy reserves. He's showing he can have bombers over NATO.

Wassercraft, on the contrary, I think it's you and other 'keyboard conservatives' who lie about living in the former USSR and are like that.

Unlike the incident where I attempted to prove Corny was a liar, you here are just going "lalalala, I'm not listening, you're all liars".

Why don't you try and prove that they're lying hmm?

Bet dollars to doughnuts this is a buildup to a seizure of the Arctic region and it's energy reserves. He's showing he can have bombers over NATO.

F-22 and F-35 squadrons will splash the bombers before they know they are in the same airspace.

That is why Russia's best strategic weapon is still the SSBN. The Typhoon was built to crash through the arctic ice.

Subs in the arctic region have an advantage because the sound of grinding ice masks the plant sounds that a SSBN will produce. The problem is that Russia's SSBN force is pretty run down. They have 21 SSBNs (at least last time I checked they did). The newest one in commission is a Delta IV that entered service in 1993. I doubt she has been well maintained.

Strategic bombers give no guarantee of hitting your target. SSBNs are the safer bet. Why do you think the US put half of the nuclear arsenal on the 14 Ohio SSBNs?

I think you nailed these [strangely] popular Communist views in internet forums. Because (living in USSR myself) Communism wasn't too much fun.

I think it asks for one nice picture:

I saw the picture, and sadly that's the attitude a lot of students have. They just like the idea and haven't thought about how horrible it would be to live under Communism.

F-22 and F-35 squadrons will splash the bombers before they know they are in the same airspace.

That is why Russia's best strategic weapon is still the SSBN. The Typhoon was built to crash through the arctic ice.

Subs in the arctic region have an advantage because the sound of grinding ice masks the plant sounds that a SSBN will produce. The problem is that Russia's SSBN force is pretty run down. They have 21 SSBNs (at least last time I checked they did). The newest one in commission is a Delta IV that entered service in 1993. I doubt she has been well maintained.

Strategic bombers give no guarantee of hitting your target. SSBNs are the safer bet. Why do you think the US put half of the nuclear arsenal on the 14 Ohio SSBNs?

The F-22 is only used by the USAF and the F-35 hasn't gone into production yet. But the Eurofighter Typhoon would do just as good a job. :cool:

I agree that strategic bombers are no guarentee of success. A big, lumbering giant like the Tu-95 would be shot down in an instant, and even planes that are invisible to radar, like the American B-2, are fragile and could be shot down by an interceptor if it could get a visual on the bomber.

ICBMs all the way!

I saw the picture, and sadly that's the attitude a lot of students have. They just like the idea and haven't thought about how horrible it would be to live under Communism.

95% of college communists get a real job and then learn how the REAL world works. The other 5% were probably dropped on their heads as infants.

The F-22 is only used by the USAFAnd one might add that only a total of 183 are planned. They can't be everywhere :P

F-22 and F-35 squadrons will splash the bombers before they know they are in the same airspace.

No guarantee that is the case. Refinements in long wave radar may provide the Achilles heel to current stealth technology. Only wartime conditions can tell.

As for splashing the bombers, that only works if a Russian preemptive strike isn't launched first.

Besides, the bombers are just the showpieces. Like the Tsar Bomba. Russia has the Topol-M and its later variants if it really wants to play the nuclear showdown.

No guarantee that is the case. Refinements in long wave radar may provide the Achilles heel to current stealth technology. Only wartime conditions can tell.

Check out this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jindalee_over-the-horizon_radar

This radar can dectect aircraft turbulance and therefore can detect stealth aircraft.

Hopefully

I miss the Cold War too. It gave us an excuse to do dirty and underhanded things.

...Is Putin nuts? People are protesting in Russia and he's flexing Russia's muscle in very...unpleasant ways. Does he want to bring back the USSR?

Hopefully

Check out this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jindalee_over-the-horizon_radar

This radar can dectect aircraft turbulance and therefore can detect stealth aircraft.

I'm wondering what type of range the Radar has when trying to detect air turbulence. My guess would be rather short. Air doesn't reflect radar very well. :)

And yet, no economic downturn has been greater than the introduction of capitalism, Putin has put Russia in a good economic position specifically because he went after the thieving oligarchs.

Putin's a capitalist.

I'm wondering what type of range the Radar has when trying to detect air turbulence. My guess would be rather short. Air doesn't reflect radar very well. :)

The radar bounces signals off of the ionisphere. It doesn't detect air, it detects air turbulance. If you have a significant amount of turbulance in a small area, and that turbulance is travelling at Mach 0.5, you're looking at a B-2 stealth bomber.

And the range it covers is recorded on the website the URL links to.

The radar bounces signals off of the ionisphere. It doesn't detect air, it detects air turbulance. If you have a significant amount of turbulance in a small area, and that turbulance is travelling at Mach 0.5, you're looking at a B-2 stealth bomber.

And the range it covers is recorded on the website the URL links to.

That range is for radar is for the standard method of detecting things. I am highly, highly sceptical that it could detect air turbulence out to even a a sixth of that distance.

And, again, for you to have air turbulence, you have to have air. So, this radar is detecting air. Air that differs from the air around it.

EDIT: I just looked over the links wikipedia gave for the "stealth detection" claim, and I see that air turbulence isn't even close to the reason they claim to detect Stealth Aircraft. They bounce radar waves off the Ionosphere and reflect them off the dorsal surface of the Aircraft. They also use HF radar waves, designed to defeat RAM. Ok, this seems alot more believible then the whole "Air Turbulence" thing.

Putin's not into defeating the oligarchs, merely, as someone previously stated in this thread, establishing his own oligarchy.

Weather radar tends to have decent range, but it requires an awful big transmitter for such ranges and, as yet, it does have the necessary precision for targeting. As it is impossible to defeat each and every frequency band at all aspects of an aircraft, long range "stealth-detecting" radars identify anomalies to be investigated by manned aircraft or followed until weapon release (as in the case of the F-117 shot down whilst flying over the former Yugoslavia), but tracking's usually a little trickier. On whole, The South Islands appears more in the right.

Hopefully

You never cease to amaze me how silly you can be.

Once a country builds a wall to keep people in, rather than out. It transforms from a state into a giant prison. Forced labor, No Due Process, etc.

I have a very hard time trying to imagine someone who knowingly welcomes that Hell.

..I've seen this coming years ago.

I saw the picture, and sadly that's the attitude a lot of students have. They just like the idea and haven't thought about how horrible it would be to live under Communism.

I went through a socialist/communist phase when I was younger so I know what a seductive philosophy, especially for idealistic youths (I was 15 when I was converted by Robert Tressell's Ragged Trousered Philanthropists). The turning point for me was when I realised that I was trying to defend 'Leftist' leaders who were all but indistinguishable from the 'fascist' leaders I opposed; I'm still a leftist economically, but in a Swedish way and with more emphasis on personal liberty.

I went through a socialist/communist phase when I was younger so I know what a seductive philosophy, especially for idealistic youths (I was 15 when I was converted by Robert Tressell's Ragged Trousered Philanthropists). The turning point for me was when I realised that I was trying to defend 'Leftist' leaders who were all but indistinguishable from the 'fascist' leaders I opposed; I'm still a leftist economically, but in a Swedish way and with more emphasis on personal liberty.

So you were one of the 95% mentioned in my other post.

And back in the real world...

I guess some forgot what happened only a short while ago...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=464921&in_page_id=1811

(daily mail quoted for giggles)

So you were one of the 95% mentioned in my other post.

Well, I'm not at college yet, I realised the folly of Communism prior to getting a job and I don't presume to understand how the world works, but apart from that, yes. :p

And back in the real world...

I guess some forgot what happened only a short while ago...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=464921&in_page_id=1811

(daily mail quoted for giggles)

Is this likely to lower house prices, cause cancer, or both?

ooh this has to be the most important article about it
http://www.thisislincolnshire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=156582&command=displayContent&sourceNode=156408&contentPK=18321147&folderPk=87028&pNodeId=156139

Is this likely to lower house prices, cause cancer, or both?

A nuclear war? I'd say I was safe in saying yes to both :p

Pooters is not going to be giving up power. Not a snowballs chance.

He will back up his claim in the strongest possible terms which could include (if Pootin is crazy emough) military action.

Nukes? Unlikely....but then lets face...Putin is not exactly a peace loving type...being 'ex' KGB

ooh this has to be the most important article about it
http://www.thisislincolnshire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=156582&command=displayContent&sourceNode=156408&contentPK=18321147&folderPk=87028&pNodeId=156139

I'd say yer right! LOL

Lincolnshire saves the world once again!

Lincolnshire saves the world once again!
I've still got to thank them from that time they fended off the Martians...

I've still got to thank them from that time they fended off the Martians...

They got Stumped at Boston? ;)

They got Stumped at Boston? ;)
If that's a reference to something cool, I'm ashamed I have no idea what your on about.

If that's a reference to something cool, I'm ashamed I have no idea what your on about.

http://www.zyra.org.uk/stump.htm

http://www.zyra.org.uk/stump.htm
Bloody 'ell!

The Ruskie's better be careful when flying there bombers near that; they'll get stuck!

Bloody 'ell!

The Ruskie's better be careful when flying there bombers near that; they'll get stuck!

And those bastards the Martians!

(you can see the Stump for miles before you get to Boston....pretty mental...)

This thread can be added to the long list of threads where AP said something stupid, got bitch slapped, and then refused to reappear.

Putin's a capitalist.

Putin is a Czarist.

Yeah well you foreigners can criticize Putin if you like, just remember next time you drink some tea what might be in it.

Yeah well you foreigners can criticize Putin if you like, just remember next time you drink some tea what might be in it.

Actually it is the citizens of Russia whom have more to worry about when it comes to poisonings

Yeah well you foreigners can criticize Putin if you like, just remember next time you drink some tea what might be in it.
And murder of political opponents and journalists makes him a good President because...?

Bet dollars to doughnuts this is a buildup to a seizure of the Arctic region and it's energy reserves. He's showing he can have bombers over NATO.

NATO can have bombers over him too...and Britain + France + US have more SSBNs than Russia does. Doesn't change things much.

Putin's not into defeating the oligarchs, merely, as someone previously stated in this thread, establishing his own oligarchy.

Well at least someone read my last post.

Fairly common pattern in Russian history really...authoritarianism has been the norm since about 900 AD, it's just been different extents and different forms. Putin is just another form.

Yeah well you foreigners can criticize Putin if you like, just remember next time you drink some tea what might be in it.

I said I admire his style, even if I disagree with his aims...most bad rulers of Russia don't live long. Putin's got the brains to work the system, at least for the moment.

...but I don't think he's after a confrontation with NATO. He's too subtle for that. Hmmm...

...*dons tinfoil hat* :p

AP, Corrupt statist pricks will hinder the revolution, not help it.As will AP himself. Personally I don't fancy the implication that I'm just a poor, stupid slop that Dear Leader must seize guardianship of, for my own good.

... At least capitalism only kills people. Authoritarianism insults, then kills people.

Yeah well you foreigners can criticize Putin if you like, just remember next time you drink some tea what might be in it.

Foreigners? You're Australian for god's sake, you can't get any more foreign. :D

Incidentally, this is the first time I've ever seen the Argument Ad Polonium fallacy used in a debate.

...Is Putin nuts? People are protesting in Russia and he's flexing Russia's muscle in very...unpleasant ways. Does he want to bring back the USSR?



Here's the latest story.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/article2936999.ece

And here's the previous story
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2302783.ece

Maybe Vovochka is trying to start another war.

Yeah well you foreigners can criticize Putin if you like, just remember next time you drink some tea what might be in it.

So much for your espoused "communism is for the benefit of all"

Maybe if I poisoned you to silence dissent, I'd be a good communist too?

And murder of political opponents and journalists makes him a good President because...?

Because in the magical world formed along the principles of Andaras Prime, opposing his views means you're a traitor and deserve to die.

He doesn't have any new or innovative ideas built into his ideology. It's just more of the same damn shit.

Yeah well you foreigners can criticize Putin if you like, just remember next time you drink some tea what might be in it.

What, milk?

Ack, milky tea!

Putin has done nothing to eliminate oligarchy in Russia...he's simply taken one group of oligarchs out of power and replaced them with another group of oligarchs.

I actually somewhat admire Putin. I don't agree with much of what he does, but he's a cold and efficient operator who knows all about how to manipulate the political climate in Russia.

As for the bomber flights...it's cheaper to send a few bombers on patrol than to send an SSBN on an extended cruise. Considering maintenance issues with Russia's land based ICBM's, and their severely downsized SSBN force, bombers are the best strategic force that Russia has left...

...might as well get the crews trained up, it's a hell of a lot cheaper than trying to rebuild the SSBN fleet or fix a few thousand missiles. And if Russia gets to rattle it's saber a little on top of it, fine...it doesn't bug me, Putin knows all about MAD.

Ah, common sense in a thread about Russia. It is becoming as rare as finding gold in the stool of pigs.

One comment on the thread in general:

Andaras Prime is certainly wrong in his rather optimistic treatment of the USSR but he is right in strongly condemning the oligarchs and Yeltsin's Russia. The oligarchs robbed the Russian people and then sold the stolen merchandise back to them at a massive profit. Yeltsin stood back and let them. The Russian people suffered terribly during this period and still suffering from its repercussions. I have spoken to quite a few Russians about this period and most of them are uniform in their detestation of it. Quite significant portions of the Russian populace view Yeltsin as a traitor to the Russian people and they are right to do so: he essentially sold them down the river. The Soviet system was bad but so was the one that immediately replaced it. If Putin is to be praised for anything, it is bringing an element of stability back into Russia. He has limited the excesses of the Yeltsin era that made it so difficult for so many Russians.

Putin is an Authoritarian Dick Hole.

There, I said it, peace.

Actually it is the citizens of Russia whom have more to worry about when it comes to poisonings

Thanks to the utter rape of their environment by the Soviet system...

Putin will not be a problem in the next 30 years for these reasons.

1.Russia has military budget of $60 billion ,the UK's is $56 billion.

2.Russia has 6 barely serviceable Nuclear subs. The US,UK and France have 80 known Subs.

3.The Russians Primary Bomber the Tupolev Tu-95 (or the bear) is 51 years old and was invented before stealth was thought of so it shows up like a beacon on radar. It can be easy tooken down by British up to date aircraft.

4. Russia is in a LOT of debt

5. Russia has 500 ICBM's roughly the US has over 3,000.

6.Currantly 30% of Russian solders sell there uniforms to gain more money.

Russia is doing this to look good at home. There is a election coming up remember. ;) HOWEVER in 30 years time? Russia is building a pipeline from Russia to Germany this will mean that when gas and oil get low they can sell them to Europe but cut off ALL the Eastern European countries such as they did with Ukraine to get them to do what they want. Expect Russia to rule the world by 2100 folks!;) Not 2030.

Russia is doing this to look good at home. There is a election coming up remember. ;) HOWEVER in 30 years time? Russia is building a pipeline from Russia to Germany this will mean that when gas and oil get low they can sell them to Europe but cut off ALL the Eastern European countries such as they did with Ukraine to get them to do what they want. Expect Russia to rule the world by 2100 folks!;) Not 2030.

Nah, by 2100 they'll be done and gone unless they've got something other than oil and gas to fund their economy. That stuff isn't going to last forever, and we're not going to be buying it from them.

Ever watch the weather reports where they show the Doppler radar? Those systems can detect stealth aircraft by turbulence. There was a technical article several years ago about networking two radar stations together to be able to track the significant turbulence a bomber makes during flight. The only difficulty cited in the report was the cost of the computing power - given the progress in the past decade, I doubt that is even a consideration any more.

Not that it really matters. You see... there is one inherent flaw in stealth aircraft - icing.

When flying at low altitude for short range missions through air with a very low humidity stealth coatings and designs are very effective - the moment you get up to a higher altitude for any amount of time, especially if there is much humidity, you will get ice forming on the surfaces of the aircraft. That ice has just negated all your lovely stealth technology.