NationStates Jolt Archive

But this one is different, I think...

I've seen people ask how others would survive a zombie outbreak, what weapon they would most like to have, the type of building they would try to reinforce for safety, ect.


I have never seen anyone ask WHY a zombie outbreak would blow up to the point you would have to "survive" it.

So I ask you, why would it get so bad that the various movie scenarios might take place?

Sure I can see how it would get bad, but to get land of the dead bad? I just don't see it.

Necromancy.

Well for it to get to the massive 'Dawn of the Dead' level it would have to be extemely transmittable, and have several genetic variables so it could mutate every time we made a vaccine. If it fills these requirements, with our airplanes and ships and the abilities to get around the world in less than a day no less, it could easily become a Global epidemic.

with our airplanes and ships and the abilities to get around the world in less than a day no less, it could easily become a Global epidemic.

That brings up a funny mental image of a zombie on an aeroplane.

That brings up a funny mental image of a zombie on an aeroplane.

Well what I meant was that an infected person, not yet showing symptoms (and a person in Dawn of the Dead could be infected for several hours before visibly showing signs of infection) could transmit to everyone on a plane by coughing and haveing the spittle recycled with the air and put back in with the passangers, so after an hour or less you would go from 1 infected to 100 or more and when they get off the plane the number will only grow, especially if they deboard in JFK International or some other major airport.

Necrophilia.

"Hey, hey! Oh...." *makes one more thrust* "Still warm..." *continues*

[God thats disgusting...]

Necromancy.

Necrophilia.

Necrophilia.

Why else do people take up Necromancy?

Why else do people take up Necromancy?

Dunno, a desire to change into a demi-lich and slaughter the world?

Dunno, a desire to change into a demi-lich and slaughter the world?

Only demi?

Dunno, a desire to change into a demi-lich and slaughter the world?

And why slaughter the world? To create more corpses for sexy-time.

Only demi?

Demiliches are very old and vastly powerful:

The magics preserving the lich's body against the ravages of time weaken, usually causing the body to gradually deteriorate until only a skull or even a single skeletal hand remains; this advanced form of lich is known as a demilich. Despite its ruined body, a demilich is far from powerless; if disturbed, the skull will levitate and suck the souls from nearby living creatures. The most notable demiliches are Acererak, found in the classic adventure Tomb of Horrors, and Kangaxx, one of the most powerful adversaries in the PC game Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn.

So I ask you, why would it get so bad that the various movie scenarios might take place?

Because otherwise, there wouldn't be various zombie movie scenarios.

are you suggesting that you are a zombie afficianado but you havent read WORLD WAR Z?

max brooks answers that question very well.

it spreads to the point where you have to survive it because no one wants to admit that it is happening. no one wants to shoot grandma just because she got a zombie bite, no government wants to carpet bomb whole towns and admit to the whole world that there is an outbreak of something that they cannot control.

by the time there is no choice but to admit that there is a problem, its spread too far to stop easily.

you have to figure out on your own how to survive.

im not even interested in zombie and i couldnt put the freaking book down. if you havent read it, you should put it on your list.

http://www.amazon.com/World-War-Z-History-Zombie/dp/0307346609

That brings up a funny mental image of a zombie on an aeroplane.
"That is it! I have had it with these muthafuggin zombies on this muthafuggin plane!"

Well for it to get to the massive 'Dawn of the Dead' level it would have to be extemely transmittable, and have several genetic variables so it could mutate every time we made a vaccine. If it fills these requirements, with our airplanes and ships and the abilities to get around the world in less than a day no less, it could easily become a Global epidemic.

yep. and have it cross species. so you have zombie dogs, birds and even possibly insects.

think Resident Evil.

yep. and have it cross species. so you have zombie dogs, birds and even possibly insects.

think Resident Evil.

Would Zombie bacteria be at all possible. I mean since a virus is smaller than a bacterium and can, I think, infect and copy itself inside of a bacteria; it leads you to the conclusion that it should be possible. If we get Zombie bacteria we are royally mcfucked! I mean how many bacteria are there per human, somewhere in the billion, even trillions maybe more.

Would Zombie bacteria be at all possible. I mean since a virus is smaller than a bacterium and can, I think, infect and copy itself inside of a bacteria; it leads you to the conclusion that it should be possible. If we get Zombie bacteria we are royally mcfucked! I mean how many bacteria are there per human, somewhere in the billion, even trillions maybe more.

you carry more bacteria in your body than you do human cells.

Everyone knows the Illuminati creates zombies by flouridating the water supply.

you carry more bacteria in your body than you do human cells.

My point exactly. Zombie bacteria = Weze fudged right up the demon hole.

My point exactly. Zombie bacteria = Weze fudged right up the demon hole.

yupyup

Everyone knows the Illuminati creates zombies by flouridating the water supply.

Uh....sure....

yupyup

I don't really want to shoot down my own argument, but for the purpose of debate:

If a zombie virus were to infect a bacterium, wouldn't that make it unstable or something of that sort and killing the bacteria. Or maybe the human body, being a resourcful piece of highly evolved equipment, would be able to develope an antibody to destroy the infected bacterium. Then again it might not matter, because if the virus is able to infect bacterium it might be able to make the leap to human white blood cells. Basically acting like a sort of zombie cancer. Opinions.

I don't really want to shoot down my own argument, but for the purpose of debate:

If a zombie virus were to infect a bacterium, wouldn't that make it unstable or something of that sort and killing the bacteria. Or maybe the human, body being a resourcful piece of highly evolved equipment, would be able to develope an antibody to destroy the infected bacterium. Then again it might not matter, because if the virus is able to infect bacterium it might be able to make the leap to human white blood cells. Basically acting like a sort of zombie cancer. Opinions.

i know nothing about the subject

except that any illness has to keep its host alive long enough to be able to effectively pass it on to the next guy. if it acts too quickly to zombify its host, then its effectiveness is limited. it needs a period of infectiousness without symptoms to allow the unfettered passing of the illness.

i know nothing about the subject

except that any illness has to keep its host alive long enough to be able to effectively pass it on to the next guy. if it acts too quickly to zombify its host, then its effectiveness is limited. it needs a period of infectiousness without symptoms to allow the unfettered passing of the illness.

True, it would have to act like HIV/AIDS infect the body and take over the T-Cells, or some other cell, alter the DNA so it can seamlessly reproduce itself and act like a cancer spreading and matasticizing (spelled that way wrong) throughout the body.

"the thing" comes to mind when talking about a cell infecting the body for transformation.


but one has to wonder how a zombie bacteria would work. even humans and animals don't go zombie until after death, and bacteria doesnt really die (as far as I know. I am not a biologist) it just splits constantly...

In most zombie movies, it is some sort of radiation bombardment that animates the dead. The infection from being bitten is just a logical consequence of being bitten by a cadaver, and lethal to the bitten, after which the animating energy kicks in and voila!-zombie.
About the only example I can think of where an actual disease was involved was the old Justice League story "The Teasdale Imperitive", where a government scientist crossed rabies and porphyria as a biological weapon, where the survivors would finish each other off in the target area and die off in short order.
Unfortunately, I do believe a zombie bacterium would fall under this heading, and only affect a limited area, in which case it is a matter of keeping the zombies off you until the disease has run it's course. Fire is universally useful in holding them at bay, regardless of the source of the zombie threat,` so I think it's best to rely on that until you can determine an alternate method of dispatch.

"the thing" comes to mind when talking about a cell infecting the body for transformation.


but one has to wonder how a zombie bacteria would work. even humans and animals don't go zombie until after death, and bacteria doesnt really die (as far as I know. I am not a biologist) it just splits constantly...

It would work just like any other bacteria works, it would interupt normal bodily functions and infect cells and the like.

Bacteria is technically a living organism (unlike a virus) so yes it does die. But since it is less complex than a human cell the virus could just replicate its RNA and alter the proteins and enzymes in a bacterium's RNA and basically just turn say and E Coli bacteria into an uber-zombie bacteria of death E Coli and spread just like a virus. (All of this is based on just an 11th grade education of rudimentary biology. I am a senior and I took advanced biology and biochemistry [the latter of which I failed miserably] so I am not the best in the world to adequately describe the processes involved.)

In most zombie movies, it is some sort of radiation bombardment that animates the dead. The infection from being bitten is just a logical consequence of being bitten by a cadaver, and lethal to the bitten, after which the animating energy kicks in and voila!-zombie.
About the only example I can think of where an actual disease was involved was the old Justice League story "The Teasdale Imperitive", where a government scientist crossed rabies and porphyria as a biological weapon, where the survivors would finish each other off in the target area and die off in short order.
Unfortunately, I do believe a zombie bacterium would fall under this heading, and only affect a limited area, in which case it is a matter of keeping the zombies off you until the disease has run it's course. Fire is universally useful in holding them at bay, regardless of the source of the zombie threat,` so I think it's best to rely on that until you can determine an alternate method of dispatch.

True, the virus itself would most likely be the most transmittable because unlike a bacterium a virus can live in most conditions whereas a bacterium will die if the conditions change only a little from what it is used to. Like exposure to excessive heat or cold, or exposure to Oxygen and Hydrogen.

Well, you have to take into consideration that, unlike most fatal diseases, a necrovitalic virus would continue to actively spread long after the victim was dead, since the infected person would presumable still be wandering about biting people. Depending on how long the animated corpse continues to function, it could spend months to years actively hunting down and transmitting the virus to potential infectees, another characteristic no found in any other disease.

These two factors alone would could potentially spread the virus (or whatever disease microbe) farther and more efficiently than passive transmission through air, water or surfaces.

The only limiting factors would be the zed's ability to locate living humans, its ability of bread into safe houses and other fortified structures, to successfully transmit the virus when attacking said humans, and the distance the zed is willing and/or able to travel to find other population centers.


Of course, if the virus is transmitted via air, and a person can transmit the incubating virus a significant period of time without showing symptoms, then we could expect the virus to spread like the flu, that is to say everybody would get it, excluding those with vaccines, inherent natural immunities, or those living in extremely isolated populations.

But this one is different, I think...

I've seen people ask how others would survive a zombie outbreak, what weapon they would most like to have, the type of building they would try to reinforce for safety, ect.


I have never seen anyone ask WHY a zombie outbreak would blow up to the point you would have to "survive" it.

So I ask you, why would it get so bad that the various movie scenarios might take place?

Sure I can see how it would get bad, but to get land of the dead bad? I just don't see it.

Because people are ultimately extremely stupid and would be convinced that zombie bites don't cause zombie transformations and so they would continue to walk up to zombies and think they're cute and cuddly. In addition, you'll have the standard, I can't shoot him she/he's my xxxxx [insert relation here]. Screw it, if you loved them blast them away.

That and because there are only SO many 12 gauge shotgun shells in the world and eventually we're going to run out...

That and because there are only SO many 12 gauge shotgun shells in the world and eventually we're going to run out...

Hydroponics and offshore oil rig platforms. Hacksaws to ladders. Relatively safe living.

Zombie seagulls.

Sealed rooms. Storm level resistant walls and windows.

EDIT: Timewarp!

Hydroponics and offshore oil rig platforms. Hacksaws to ladders. Relatively safe living.

Zombie seagulls.

Because people are ultimately extremely stupid and would be convinced that zombie bites don't cause zombie transformations and so they would continue to walk up to zombies and think they're cute and cuddly. In addition, you'll have the standard, I can't shoot him she/he's my xxxxx [insert relation here]. Screw it, if you loved them blast them away.

That and because there are only SO many 12 gauge shotgun shells in the world and eventually we're going to run out...

shaun of the dead comes to mind when i hear that thing about that relation.

the virus would have to transfer quickly. like uber fast.

"That is it! I have had it with these muthafuggin zombies on this muthafuggin plane!"
You can say fuck, if you want. We're all adults here, or at least capable of putting 18 in that little "Age" box.

The idea of a Zombie Cruise Liner, while not particularly swift or practical, is the most amusing way I can think of for a zombie-disease to cross oceans.

I have never seen anyone ask WHY a zombie outbreak would blow up to the point you would have to "survive" it.

So I ask you, why would it get so bad that the various movie scenarios might take place?

Sure I can see how it would get bad, but to get land of the dead bad? I just don't see it.

This all depends on what causes the outbreak. The possible causes may include: disease, magical, chemical, "radiation", and probably a few things I missed.

Disease or contagon has been discussed.

Magic is still vauge. It would depend on the area of the effect. If the magic effects the world, Zombi Holocaust here we go.

Chemical would most likely be localised. 2-4-5 Trioxin a la Return of the Living Dead couldn't zombify the world in and of itself unless one of the sporadic outbreaks gets out of hand. The original Return movie ends with fallout a nuke strike spreading the outbreak. Spead it enough, and we have a Zombi Holocaust.



That brings up a funny mental image of a zombie on an aeroplane.

Enough bodies are transported by air to maybe do this...

are you suggesting that you are a zombie afficianado but you havent read WORLD WAR Z?

max brooks answers that question very well.

it spreads to the point where you have to survive it because no one wants to admit that it is happening. no one wants to shoot grandma just because she got a zombie bite, no government wants to carpet bomb whole towns and admit to the whole world that there is an outbreak of something that they cannot control.

by the time there is no choice but to admit that there is a problem, its spread too far to stop easily.

Yep - general incompetence and willful denial combined FTL. ;)

Necromancy.

That'll do.

LG painted a bunch of people grey with a lead based paint.

The idea of a Zombie Cruise Liner, while not particularly swift or practical, is the most amusing way I can think of for a zombie-disease to cross oceans.

Just hope a hermit can shrieve your soul and wash away the blood....

(props to the first person who gets that ref.!)

See the answer to porblem 2
http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~tmcdonal/Teaching/Math111/Spring_2006/solutions/5.5_worksheet_sol.pdf

Demiliches are very old and vastly powerful: Yeah, an interesting point. It wasn't always this way. I believe demiliches were originally weaker liches for lower level parties. However, very early on they were rewritten as ultraliches. I believe the rationale behind it is a blending of 'demi-god' and lich, rather than suggesting a diminished lich.

You can say fuck, if you want. We're all adults here, or at least capable of putting 18 in that little "Age" box.

The idea of a Zombie Cruise Liner, while not particularly swift or practical, is the most amusing way I can think of for a zombie-disease to cross oceans. *love boat theme*
*Captain Stubing shuffles across the screen dripping with blood and th bowels of a guest*

Another great way would to simply have the zombies take to the sea individually, either floating around with the currents, or walking across the bottom. I mean, they aren't going to drown. Possibly one might get caught up in a fishing trawler's net, resulting in a hilarious moment at the fish markets. Zombie's would eat dead fish, right?

*love boat theme*
*Captain Stubing shuffles across the screen dripping with blood and th bowels of a guest*

LOL

Love, exciting and new
Come aboard, we're expecting you
Love, life's sweetest reward
Let it flow, it floats back to you

Love Boat soon will be making another run
The Love Boat promises something for everyone
Set a course for adventure
Your mind on a new romance

And love won't hurt anymore
It's an open smile on a friendly shore
It's love
Welcome aboard
It's love!

(That actually slots well into what I referenced above...)

*love boat theme*
*Captain Stubing shuffles across the screen dripping with blood and th bowels of a guest*

Shaun of the Dead sequel?

It depends on the kind of zombie, really. I could see classic undead zombies being an ongoing niusance, like rabbits or feral cats. Easy enough to keep under control, but way too difficult to eradicate.

Another great way would to simply have the zombies take to the sea individually, either floating around with the currents, or walking across the bottom. I mean, they aren't going to drown. Possibly one might get caught up in a fishing trawler's net, resulting in a hilarious moment at the fish markets. Zombie's would eat dead fish, right?

While the Love Boat was ammusing, this actually answers the OP question interstingly.

Query: will scavangers eat zombies? If so, will the contagon or contaminant concentrate in the food chain like normal ones do?

It depends on the kind of zombie, really. I could see classic undead zombies being an ongoing niusance, like rabbits or feral cats. Easy enough to keep under control, but way too difficult to eradicate.

Indeed. I think you have an answer in bagreement with my earlier one.

Would Zombie bacteria be at all possible. I mean since a virus is smaller than a bacterium and can, I think, infect and copy itself inside of a bacteria; it leads you to the conclusion that it should be possible. If we get Zombie bacteria we are royally mcfucked! I mean how many bacteria are there per human, somewhere in the billion, even trillions maybe more. doesn't have to be a bacteria. a virus that can cross species is bad enough (think bird flu). I mentioned Resident Evil because of the Virus's ability to infect birds, dogs, and insects as well as humans.

i know nothing about the subject

except that any illness has to keep its host alive long enough to be able to effectively pass it on to the next guy. if it acts too quickly to zombify its host, then its effectiveness is limited. it needs a period of infectiousness without symptoms to allow the unfettered passing of the illness.

if it needed a living host. if not, then it won't matter, if such a 'bug' could subsist on the semi-decomposed nature of the body, incubating itself and then transmitting itself via body fluids...

then being bitten (saliva) or eaten/cross blood contamination would then make sense in how a zombie bite infects others, and carrion eaters would also get infected by feeding on the corpes.

It depends on the kind of zombie, really. I could see classic undead zombies being an ongoing niusance, like rabbits or feral cats. Easy enough to keep under control, but way too difficult to eradicate.

nah, the classic zombies would be easy to eradicate. after all, a flamethrower would do alot of damage.

the only difficulty would be trying to decide if the moaning shuffling, off-balanced, staring into space with a blank look person is a zombie, or a person High on something.

nah, the classic zombies would be easy to eradicate. after all, a flamethrower would do alot of damage. yeah, but the undead are painfully hard to 'kill'. You can burn them, blow them in half, and crush them, and they'll still go for your ankles. 'Dead' zombies left forgotten would be a constant and near inescapable risk of repeat contaminations. To properly eradicate them you would need to incinerate every zombie there was. Mind you, why would you want to eradicate them. Classic zombies are hardly capable of causin an epidemic without the external influence of a necromance of some sort, and thus woul serve as a minor risk and major source of fun:
"Mum, I'm just heading out with the guys to blow apart some zombies!"
"Ok, be careful and don't be too late!"

the only difficulty would be trying to decide if the moaning shuffling, off-balanced, staring into space with a blank look person is a zombie, or a person High on something."And make sure you don't kill anymore stoners!"