NationStates Jolt Archive

As posted in this (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=537210) thread:

Loyalty, obedience without question and the need to put everyone's else welfare and interest above mine. :/

I'm just wondering. Are those characteristics really a weakness? I'm not so sure, actually.

As posted in this (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=537210) thread:



I'm just wondering. Are those characteristics really a weakness? I'm not so sure, actually.

loyalty: Not really a weakness, just make sure that the causes/people you're loyal to are worth it and don't abuse your loyalty.

obedience without question: Yeah, that's just stupid. Think for yourself.

the need to put everyone's else welfare and interest above mine: also a weakness. Nobody really expects that from you, it's very positive if you can sometimes put somebody else's welfare and interest above yours, but always and everybody is obviously impossible (because sometimes different people's interests conflict) and quite stupid. Relax and learn to enjoy life, this doesn't mean that you can't help people or do stuff for other people if you don't really enjoy it, but if you don't people will take advantage of you and stuff.

As posted in this (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=537210) thread:



I'm just wondering. Are those characteristics really a weakness? I'm not so sure, actually.

it can be if others expoit them.

Loyalty is more often exploited than rewarded.

Loyalty is more often exploited than rewarded.

as well as Obediance w/o Question as well as Putting others before yourself...

yes its weakness because it would lead to your destruction. if true, its as weak as being a drug addict.

Depends upon the context and how it is taken to the extreme, I suppose.

Loyalty is more often exploited than rewarded.

Yes, I noticed that. Far too late I have to admit. One of the reasons why I actually asked.

Likewise, I always tried to be nice and helpful and once again got punished, because people abuse my good will all the time or appreciate me as the useful, yet skilled and smart, hard working, reliable, etc. idiot who can do everything right except taking care of his own interest once in a while.

Oh damn... :/

As posted in this (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=537210) thread:



I'm just wondering. Are those characteristics really a weakness? I'm not so sure, actually.
I think its only a weakness if others around have weaknesses, such as a weakness to take advantage of people.

A problem with Blind Obedience...

http://www.herdthinners.com/gifs/2007/0902.gif

Darn lawful neutrals.

Loyalty is no weakness, it's a virtue. Blind obedience is a weakness. A "need" to put others ahead of yourself probably is a weakness, but a willingness to do so isn't.

As posted in this (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=537210) thread:



I'm just wondering. Are those characteristics really a weakness? I'm not so sure, actually.

I hope you're not mad for my jokes :(

Aristotle would probably say that loyalty is obedience in moderation, and therefore a virtue, while blind obedience is an excess and a vice.

Aristotle would probably say that loyalty is obedience in moderation, and therefore a virtue, while blind obedience is an excess and a vice.
Good point. It doesn't make sense to think of them as two separate things, but as different gradients of the same quality.

As posted in this (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=537210) thread:



I'm just wondering. Are those characteristics really a weakness? I'm not so sure, actually.

It means you'll achieve fuck all in life professionally, which to me equates to a weakness.

It means you'll achieve fuck all in life professionally, which to me equates to a weakness.

"achieve fuck all in life professionally" is a bit garbled -- you mean "never have a good job" ?

"achieve fuck all in life professionally" is a bit garbled -- you mean "never have a good job" ?

If you will. Or, never be able to provide the very best for your children.

If you will. Or, never be able to provide the very best for your children.

So, "providing the very best" == lots of income.

If a person embezzled billions and never got caught, shared it generously with their kids, would that be "a weakness" in your judgement?

Aristotle would probably say that loyalty is obedience in moderation, and therefore a virtue, while blind obedience is an excess and a vice.

Loyalty is obedience in moderation?

I'd have said loyalty has an aspect entirely missing in obedience -- that of sentiment. One feels loyalty, and acts from that, whereas obedience is simply a matter of the act.

A slave may be obedient, yet have no respect for their master. It would not follow that the slave is loyal to the master ... ie, loyalty is not a degree of obedience.

Loyalty is obedience in moderation?

I'd have said loyalty has an aspect entirely missing in obedience -- that of sentiment. One feels loyalty, and acts from that, whereas obedience is simply a matter of the act.

A slave may be obedient, yet have no respect for their master. It would not follow that the slave is loyal to the master ... ie, loyalty is not a degree of obedience.

You're right, that was actually a bit sloppy of me. Fanaticism probably would more correctly be the extreme of loyalty, while the moderate value of blind obedience would be... I don't know. A healthy respect for authority?

Edit: No, then we're still talking about respect. I don't know.

As posted in this (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=537210) thread:



I'm just wondering. Are those characteristics really a weakness? I'm not so sure, actually.

Loyalty is not generally a weakness. Unquestioning obedience is a weakness - it implies that you don't trust your own judgement. Putting everyone's welfare above your own is just dumb - it means that you don't value yourself and everyone else will assign you the value you put on yourself. This is not to say that caring for others is bad, but a little well-placed selfishness isn't bad - occasionally you need to say no, take time for yourself, do what you want to do - don't harm others and don't let them harm you.

As posted in this (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=537210) thread:



I'm just wondering. Are those characteristics really a weakness? I'm not so sure, actually.

Obedience most certainly is. It's the worst kind of weakness I can think of right now, on the same level as blind faith.

So, "providing the very best" == lots of income.

If a person embezzled billions and never got caught, shared it generously with their kids, would that be "a weakness" in your judgement?

No. An abuse of strenth perhaps, but not weakness.

Aristotle would probably say that loyalty is obedience in moderation, and therefore a virtue, while blind obedience is an excess and a vice.

Yes well Aristotle's views on slavery also provided the ideological base for Nazism.

So, "providing the very best" == lots of income.


A balance between lots of income and emotional support, etc perhaps