NationStates Jolt Archive

PM Gordon Brown, noted for his prudence and sticking to his 'golden rule', has had several key public sectors bite back over low pay and poor conditions.

Last year, the recently retired Head of the Army, General Sir Mike Jackson accused the government of neglecting soldiers and of "asking too much" (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/12/07/wiraq07.xml) of the Armed Forces. He condemned the Ministry of Defence for its poor treatment of the wounded, the appalling pay for soldiers and "frankly shaming" accommodation.

Parts of the NHS (http://society.guardian.co.uk/health/news/0,,1873602,00.html) also went on strike for the first time in 18 years last year, and earlier this year parts of the civil service (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6402611.stm) went on strike over pay and conditions.

Last week the Prison Service (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6968105.stm) went on a 24hr strike, even though the government claims such strikes by the Prison Service are illegal. This also comes at a time when the underfunding Prison Service is so overcrowded that the Ministry of Justice had some prisoners released early to ease overcrowding. Linky (http://politics.guardian.co.uk/homeaffairs/story/0,,2160273,00.html)

And most recently the Police Federation (http://politics.guardian.co.uk/economics/story/0,,2160866,00.html), who are even banned from talking about strike action, have voted to explore the option of lobbying for full industrial rights if their demands for pay rises in line with the private sector are not met.

The question is, is Gordon Brown's 'prudence' setting Britain on course for another, although scaled back, Winter of Discontent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_of_Discontent).

I hope so. Such an occassion would allow the Tory party to stand whoever they wished as a candidate for PM and still win, IMHO.

I hope so. Such an occassion would allow the Tory party to stand whoever they wished as a candidate for PM and still win, IMHO.And why would that be so great? The Tories are still operating on the principle that if they copy the Labour party then people might confuse the Tory party with the Labour party and vote for them instead. It'd be like 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.

And why would that be so great? The Tories are still operating on the principle that if they copy the Labour party then people might confuse the Tory party with the Labour party and vote for them instead. It'd be like 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.

The Tory party act as they do under the sad appreciation that the British people, in economically clement times, are quite prepared to accept centrism. An economic crisis, or the illusion thereof, would allow the Tory party to campaign upon principles, not demagoguic statements.

The Tory party act as they do under the sad appreciation that the British people, in economically clement times, are quite prepared to accept centrism. An economic crisis, or the illusion thereof, would allow the Tory party to campaign upon principles, not demagoguic statements.Not with Cameron. I have yet to hear any vocal shouts from the Tories on how the government is completely failing to keep up standards in the Prison service, nor how the government is so far out of control that it is unable to prevent Prison officers from committing crimes themselves... nor anything else for that matter. It all seems rather tame to me.

The Tory party act as they do under the sad appreciation that the British people, in economically clement times, are quite prepared to accept centrism. An economic crisis, or the illusion thereof, would allow the Tory party to campaign upon principles, not demagoguic statements.

Well that would be awesome, if you were brainwashed and unquestioningly partisan enough to believe that getting a Tory majority at any cost was worth it.

I'll stick with my "economically clement times" for now.

Last week the Prison Service (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6968105.stm) went on a 24hr strike, even though the government claims such strikes by the Prison Service are illegal.
Does making it illegal for a group to strike ever actually stop the group in question? It seems like a pretty hollow threat (if losing them for 24 hours caused problems, imagine the damage that sending them all to prison would cause).

Does making it illegal for a group to strike ever actually stop the group in question? It seems like a pretty hollow threat (if losing them for 24 hours caused problems, imagine the damage that sending them all to prison would cause).I was thinking along these lines too. Similar to 'who watches the watcher' - who gaols the gaoler?

Does making it illegal for a group to strike ever actually stop the group in question? It seems like a pretty hollow threat (if losing them for 24 hours caused problems, imagine the damage that sending them all to prison would cause).

The legal threat is not one of imprisonment but one of fines imposed upon the union itself, usually enough to bankrupt it.

The legal threat is not one of imprisonment but one of fines imposed upon the union itself, usually enough to bankrupt it.The government better make sure someone else is holding the keys to the prison gates before they try and bankrupt the union then.

"Oh, sorry guv'nor, I think I pawned the gaol keys to help pay the union's fines. Must'a been that damn pawnbroker sell the keys onto someone else"

The Tory party act as they do under the sad appreciation that the British people, in economically clement times, are quite prepared to accept centrism. An economic crisis, or the illusion thereof, would allow the Tory party to campaign upon principles, not demagoguic statements.

In which case I imagine we wouldn't be hearing much from the Tories.

I hope so. Such an occassion would allow the Tory party to stand whoever they wished as a candidate for PM and still win, IMHO.

bloody hell how many Boris Johnson have they got in the wings - could be a real laugh

It seems they do all jump on the bandwagon of strike action in close succession. I hope it isn't going to boil up to previous heights as I don't fancy Cameron becoming PM. I don't think Brown will have a pleasant time at the TUC in September, but I would hope he would attend like his predecessor.

Oh yes, and the AUT (Association of University Teachers) and NATFHE (another teachers union) went on strike in the previous academic year as well. They were on strike for one day on March 8th and from March 9th to June 6th they refused to mark exams and course. But there won't be any more strike action from the AUT if only because it has dissolved and merged with NATFHE in the UCU.

Oh yes, and the AUT (Association of University Teachers) and NATFHE (another teachers union) went on strike in the previous academic year as well. They were on strike for one day on March 8th and from March 9th to June 6th they refused to mark exams and course. But there won't be any more strike action from the AUT if only because it has dissolved and merged with NATFHE in the UCU.
I think teachers should show just how serious they are and go on strike during the Summer Hols, while they're busy do lesson and syllabus prep work for the coming school year.
That'll show the govt.

I hope so. Such an occassion would allow the Tory party to stand whoever they wished as a candidate for PM and still win, IMHO.
which would help in what way? What are the Tory's policies and how would they solve the current public sector crisis?
Considering their past history, all they'd do is refuse to meet with any unions and, in addition, most likely cut public sector funds and refuse to any pay rise demands.
That's gonna help England out of this mess, ferrsure.

As for standing on principle, if the Tories could see they were going to get an overwhelming majority, they'd say whatever the hell they like and just go back to the same old Tory ways of rogering the public sector to bits, selling it off at bargain prices because the private sector's 'more efficient' and then a few years later being forced to spend more on subsidising the screw-ups.

I think teachers should show just how serious they are and go on strike during the Summer Hols, while they're busy do lesson and syllabus prep work for the coming school year.
That'll show the govt.Not sure how well that would work, I guess the teachers would just be given all the bureaucracy that recorded their lesson plans from last year and told to use that.

Not sure how well that would work, I guess the teachers would just be given all the bureaucracy that recorded their lesson plans from last year and told to use that.
which is different from now in what way?

I hope so. Such an occassion would allow the Tory party to stand whoever they wished as a candidate for PM and still win, IMHO.
Wonder what would happen then...

*Tories win the next election*
*Tory PM surveys the scene*
"Right...the public sector doesn't seem to be working. Let's privatise everything."







Five years later...
*Labour win election landslide*

In which case I imagine we wouldn’t be hearing much from the Tories.
Conservative policy for the last two years?

“We like blue ties.”

Conservative policy for the last two years?

“We like blue ties.”

"Look at our logo! Look! We're nice."

“Look at our logo! Look! We’re nice.”
And who doesn’t like trees?

:p

I loved how the Tories kept bleating on about how popular they were just before Gordon Brown became PM; as if the public grumpyness that Blair, the man who became even more unpopular than Thatcher (!), was to be replaced by his colleague without any recourse to the voting booths, somehow translated into support for Cameron.

Conservative policy for the last two years?

“We like blue ties.”
More like "we'd like blue ties if they were made in a fairtrade environment, and had little trees embossed on them, but as it stands, any colour will do, and red is sure looking good this season".

I can't help think that Gordo is sad he no longer has Two Shags to handle things during the summer ;)

And some people in the US want "Universal Health Care."
Dr. in operating room. "Get the janitor to stitch him up, it's time for us to go on strike.' :eek:

Which of course would never happen.

Parts of the NHS (http://society.guardian.co.uk/health/news/0,,1873602,00.html) also went on strike for the first time in 18 years last year,

And some people in the US want "Universal Health Care."
Dr. in operating room. "Get the janitor to stitch him up, it's time for us to go on strike.' :eek:

Dr. in operating room. "After finishing this operation, which this patient couldn’t afford through private medical schemes, it’s time for us to go on strike for the first time in eighteen years.’
Fixed.

And some people in the US want "Universal Health Care."
Dr. in operating room. "Get the janitor to stitch him up, it's time for us to go on strike.' :eek:

Yeah, because that's exactly what happens on a regular basis in a universal health system.

And some people in the US want "Universal Health Care."
Dr. in operating room. "Get the janitor to stitch him up, it's time for us to go on strike.' :eek:

Right, because medical professionals in the US don't strike.

Wait...

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/11/14/nurses.strike.ap/index.html

Right, because medical professionals in the US don't strike.

Wait...

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/11/14/nurses.strike.ap/index.html

How dare you bring facts and reason to NSG? Did you not know that these are prohibited substances?

PM Gordon Brown, noted for his prudence and sticking to his 'golden rule', has had several key public sectors bite back over low pay and poor conditions.
The unions regard any rise that's not substantially greater than inflation as representing poor pay. In the real world people's wages rise faster than inflation through being promoted or changing jobs, not by holding the public to ransom.

The unions regard any rise that's not substantially greater than inflation as representing poor pay. In the real world people's wages rise faster than inflation through being promoted or changing jobs, not by holding the public to ransom.

I'm afraid to say you are sorely mistaken. The public sector pay "rises" in question are substantially belowthe rate of inflation. This is in effect a pay cut.

In the real world, it is grossly unfair to ask people to do a demanding job for less money.

And some people in the US want "Universal Health Care."
Dr. in operating room. "Get the janitor to stitch him up, it's time for us to go on strike.' :eek:First off it was the logistics arm that went on strike. Secondly, they made sure that the NHS had adequate supplies for the day on which they went on strike.

Furthermore, strikes are generally things that are planned in advance and do not cover emergency services. ie. Hospitals will still be operating on a skeleton staff necessary to keep A&E and other essential services functioning. Basically all outpatient appointments and elective surgery would be cancelled.

The unions regard any rise that's not substantially greater than inflation as representing poor pay. In the real world people's wages rise faster than inflation through being promoted or changing jobs, not by holding the public to ransom.I do believe your operating on the premise that (a) workers/professionals in the public sector receive equal pay to that of their counterparts in the private sector, that (b) that the unions are fighting for above inflation pay rises, and that (c) the unions are asking for more than what was recommended by an independent pay review commissioned by the government.