NationStates Jolt Archive

There was talk in another thread about images of Christ. Then it was mentioned that there is no command against images of Jesus in Christianity. But, there is:

Exodus 20:4-6 "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them, for I the Lord am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments." (ESV)

Traditionally (at least in Reformed circles), this is understood to refer to the use of images in the worship of God only, because of the refernces to bowing and God being a jealous God.

Yet this is ignored by many. In the still orthodox Reformed circles they hold this position (or one similar to it) from the Westminster Confession (only the first section of the chapter is given):

XXI Of Religous Worship, and the Sabbath-Day
1. The light of nature sheweth that there is a God, who hath lordship and sovereignty over all; is good, and doeth good unto all; and is therefore to be feared, loved, praised, called upon, trusted in, and served, with all the heart, and with all the soul, and with all the might. But the acceptable way of worshipping the true God is instituted by himself, and so limited by his own revealed will, that he may not be worshipped according to the imaginations and devices of men, or the suggestions of Satan, under any visible representation, or any other way not prescribed in the holy Scripture.

I am personally against any images being used in worship: the cross, the ichthus, the lamb, the all-seeing-eye, etc.

I have no problem with them being used in education, though, just not in worship.

And no pictures of Christ anytime.

Every other Christian I know thinks I'm crazy. So, what am I missing? Based on Scripture, how does one come to any other conclusion?

it depends on how you lump the verses.

it seem to me to be obviously referring to the carving of images of "strange gods" and worshipping them. it has to be both parts--a strange god and worshipped.

jesus is not a strange god. there is no problem with making images of him. the statues of saints that you find in catholic churches arent worshipped so there is no problem with them.

the faces on mt rushmore are neither strange gods nor are they worshipped so no problem with them.

kachinas are strange gods but collectors dont worship them so there is no problem in having them in your house.

Exodus 20:4-6 "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them, for I the Lord am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments." (ESV)


I'm not sure that this is the correct translation.

Of course there is also the fact that, as a christian, you do not need to follow the laws of the OT anymore.

I'm not sure that this is the correct translation.

Of course there is also the fact that, as a christian, you do not need to follow the laws of the OT anymore.

Where does it say that? I think I recall Jesus saying that the Law would not pass away until it was fullfilled: Luke 16:17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=16&verse=17&version=47&context=verse), Matthew 5:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt%205:18&version=47).

So, the ceremonial (sacrifices and clean/unclean laws) has been abrogated because of Christ's sacrifice, but the moral and the political have not, because Christ's reign on earth is not yet come and the hearts of man are not yet turned entirely to the good.

Does that make sense?

All I know is that at my friend's Lutheran/Dutch Reformed Church, there is an enormous angel in lieu of a cross or crucifix at the front of the church.

All I know is that at my friend's Lutheran/Dutch Reformed Church, there is an enormous angel in lieu of a cross or crucifix at the front of the church.

You'll notice my careful use of the words "traditional" and "orthodox."

The Dutch Refomed Church has the Belgic Confession which says pretty much the same thing as the Westminster Confession. Though, since you mention Lutherans, it's possible they may have compromised a bit. I know my church, a PCUSA congregation (a "Reformed" denomination, at least in name) has symbols all through the service.

Where does it say that? I think I recall Jesus saying that the Law would not pass away until it was fullfilled: Luke 16:17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=16&verse=17&version=47&context=verse), Matthew 5:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt%205:18&version=47).

So, the ceremonial (sacrifices and clean/unclean laws) has been abrogated because of Christ's sacrifice, but the moral and the political have not, because Christ's reign on earth is not yet come and the hearts of man are not yet turned entirely to the good.

Does that make sense?

I'm not sure as I'm not an expert on the Bible. The new Covenant supposedly rendered the old one irrelevant, you don't need to follow Jewish law to get into Heaven.

This Colonel guy? He's wacko, man! He's worse than crazy. He's evil. It's fuckin' pagan idolatry. Look around you. Shit! He's loco... I ain't afraid of all them fuckin' skulls and altars and shit. I used to think if I died in an evil place, then my soul wouldn't be able to make it to Heaven. But now? Fuck! I mean, I don't care where it goes, as long as it ain't here. So whaddya wanna do? I'll kill the fuck.

~Chef, Apocalypse Now