NationStates Jolt Archive

Over and over on all forums I hear about people bashing everyone else's religion. Have we all become that extreme? I'll be honest, I'm Catholic, I attend Catholic mass, and enjoy it. However, I have not locked myself into the belief that everyone else is wrong. For the most part, my faith doesn't even require the existence of Jesus. I know that Christians around here will claim that I really am not Christian then, but you know what. I do believe in Jesus. I just don't think that should be the determining factor on whether you will agree with someone or not. If tomorrow someone gave full proof that Jesus never existed, I would still go to church and I would still call myself Christian. I would act exactly the same way. The lifestyle and behaviors that I have picked up from my religion has enabled me to become a better member of society. I'm sure many non-Christians believe the same, and I know a lot of people who are better members of society because of their non-Christian religions.

What would everyone else do if they found out beyond a shadow of a doubt that their religious "background" was fake?

What would everyone else do if they found out beyond a shadow of a doubt that their religious "background" was fake?

I'd probably be in the exact same situation as I am now

What would everyone else do if they found out beyond a shadow of a doubt that their religious "background" was fake?

I would resume my search for the Truth, because I do not believe it to be subjective.

It's a good thing I don't have a religious background.

I would resume my search for the Truth, because I do not believe it to be subjective.

I agree. I also believe that we all are searching for the "truth." The only downfall is that we don't know what that is and a few people try to tell us what that is.

It's a good thing I don't have a religious background.

If you're an atheist, what if (hypothetically) there was absolute evidence of a god?

I would probably eat a taco and then jump in mud. *nod*

If you're an atheist, what if (hypothetically) there was absolute evidence of a god?

You'd have to include a situation in which this god had made it completely clear what they expected of their creation

You'd have to include a situation in which this god had made it completely clear what they expected of their creation

Imply all belief systems.

I would go out, eat a rack of baby ribs and wash it down with vodka and 151.

Imply all belief systems.

I'm sorry but I don't understand

I would go out, eat a rack of baby ribs and wash it down with vodka and 151.

Well, I guess I said I wouldn't change a thing. So throw me down for a Killians.

How can I be wrong about my religion when I have none? :)

I'm sorry but I don't understand

Whatever defining belief(anti-belief) system that you adhere to to make life choices. Would you change how you make decisions because you system has been proven wrong.

How can I be wrong about my religion when I have none? :)

What if you found out that one religion is the "true" religion?

Whatever defining belief(anti-belief) system that you adhere to to make life choices. Would you change how you make decisions because you system has been proven wrong.

No. I wouldn't think much of the god that demanded it of me

If you're an atheist, what if (hypothetically) there was absolute evidence of a god?

Absolute evidence of anything, much less a god is practically impossible. I would however become a theist, if that's any consolation to you. No big deal.

Meh, wouldn't bother me. I'm fairly used to being wrong.

Absolute evidence of anything, much less a god is practically impossible. I would however become a theist, if that's any consolation to you. No big deal.

My goal is not to "make" people theists. My goal is to get people to think about how little these kind of things really are in our lives, yet how fervent people become over them.

What if you found out that one religion is the "true" religion?

I'd just get stoned, say some stupid shit and get me arse ex-communicated. ;)

yet how fervent people become over them.

Because of the huge impact they have in our lives

well who said you are wrong in what ever you believe? people from the internet?
i know that in America it is almost being American to be Christian.. (or that is my view about it)

anyway it is all childish play of:"i do it better than you and you should do it like i do"

and some people get intimidated by it

well who said you are wrong in what ever you believe? people from the internet?
i know that in America it is almost being American to be Christian.. (or that is my view about it)

anyway it is all childish play of:"i do it better than you and you should do it like i do"

and some people get intimidated by it

Can we have an English translation, please?

Over and over on all forums I hear about people bashing everyone else's religion. Have we all become that extreme? I'll be honest, I'm Catholic, I attend Catholic mass, and enjoy it. However, I have not locked myself into the belief that everyone else is wrong. For the most part, my faith doesn't even require the existence of Jesus. I know that Christians around here will claim that I really am not Christian then, but you know what. I do believe in Jesus. I just don't think that should be the determining factor on whether you will agree with someone or not. If tomorrow someone gave full proof that Jesus never existed, I would still go to church and I would still call myself Christian. I would act exactly the same way. The lifestyle and behaviors that I have picked up from my religion has enabled me to become a better member of society. I'm sure many non-Christians believe the same, and I know a lot of people who are better members of society because of their non-Christian religions.

What would everyone else do if they found out beyond a shadow of a doubt that their religious "background" was fake?

if "god" is indeed beyond our understanding then all religion is "fake" and all realigion is "true". all that matters is whether or not it brings you closer to god.

our experience of god is like that story about the blind men and the elephant. we only see a piece of god. we interpret that piece. in some ways we are right and in some ways we are wrong. same same for everyone else.

so i already understand that my religion is fake and not just because i am now an atheist. there is just no way that any religion can be scientifically accurate. i dont have a problem with it.

What would everyone else do if they found out beyond a shadow of a doubt that their religious "background" was fake?The followers of abrahamic religions would just harden their hearts and go on believing. They would not be believers in the first place if they had any use for reason.

If God came up and spoke to me and 'proved' he existed, I would probably say 'haha that's funny God, now go away and leave me to my Shostakovich'.

If god ever came up to me and demonstrated his existence, I'd probably tell Him to sod off, because I was busy debating His existence on NSG.

I know that I personally gained a lot of morality from my faith. If it turns out, when all is said and done, that I was wrong about what I believed, I've lived a good life. I have no complaints or regrets (well, not serious ones, anyway).

If you're an atheist, what if (hypothetically) there was absolute evidence of a god?

If there was empirical, scientific, evidence, beyond the shadow of a doubt, I'd believe it. But I still might not become part of his fan club, if he's not a good god.

My religious background is that I really have no idea what the truth really is, and as far as I know, there might be an invisible pink unicorn dancing on my head. The only way this could be disproved would be undeniable evidence of whatever the great cosmic "truth" is. At that point, I suppose I can just sit back and be content in that knowledge.

Over and over on all forums I hear about people bashing everyone else's religion. Have we all become that extreme? I'll be honest, I'm Catholic, I attend Catholic mass, and enjoy it. However, I have not locked myself into the belief that everyone else is wrong. For the most part, my faith doesn't even require the existence of Jesus. I know that Christians around here will claim that I really am not Christian then, but you know what. I do believe in Jesus. I just don't think that should be the determining factor on whether you will agree with someone or not. If tomorrow someone gave full proof that Jesus never existed, I would still go to church and I would still call myself Christian. I would act exactly the same way. The lifestyle and behaviors that I have picked up from my religion has enabled me to become a better member of society. I'm sure many non-Christians believe the same, and I know a lot of people who are better members of society because of their non-Christian religions.

What would everyone else do if they found out beyond a shadow of a doubt that their religious "background" was fake?

Read How Should We Then Live by Francis Schaeffer. You might rethink this.

I think there are only two requirements and I see them in my study of every major religion:

1. Honor God

2. Love everyone.

What would everyone else do if they found out beyond a shadow of a doubt that their religious "background" was fake?

I would have the person who proved it killed for blasphemy.

Actually, as an atheist, I would need proof of a God and if I got that, I would ask that God to give me some flying powers dammit.

Over and over on all forums I hear about people bashing everyone else's religion. Have we all become that extreme? I'll be honest, I'm Catholic, I attend Catholic mass, and enjoy it. However, I have not locked myself into the belief that everyone else is wrong. For the most part, my faith doesn't even require the existence of Jesus. I know that Christians around here will claim that I really am not Christian then, but you know what. I do believe in Jesus. I just don't think that should be the determining factor on whether you will agree with someone or not. If tomorrow someone gave full proof that Jesus never existed, I would still go to church and I would still call myself Christian. I would act exactly the same way. The lifestyle and behaviors that I have picked up from my religion has enabled me to become a better member of society. I'm sure many non-Christians believe the same, and I know a lot of people who are better members of society because of their non-Christian religions.

What would everyone else do if they found out beyond a shadow of a doubt that their religious "background" was fake?

Actually I kinda agree with you, although I am still adamantly anti-christianity and everything it stands for. Facts are irrelevent, religion is about the irrational part of our minds. And denying that part is denying our nature. So called "humanists" are ironically opposing something that's pretty much as human as you can get.

I would probably eat a taco and then jump in mud. *nod*

What else is new. :p

Over and over on all forums I hear about people bashing everyone else's religion. Have we all become that extreme? I'll be honest, I'm Catholic, I attend Catholic mass, and enjoy it. However, I have not locked myself into the belief that everyone else is wrong. For the most part, my faith doesn't even require the existence of Jesus. I know that Christians around here will claim that I really am not Christian then, but you know what. I do believe in Jesus. I just don't think that should be the determining factor on whether you will agree with someone or not. If tomorrow someone gave full proof that Jesus never existed, I would still go to church and I would still call myself Christian. I would act exactly the same way. The lifestyle and behaviors that I have picked up from my religion has enabled me to become a better member of society. I'm sure many non-Christians believe the same, and I know a lot of people who are better members of society because of their non-Christian religions.

What would everyone else do if they found out beyond a shadow of a doubt that their religious "background" was fake?

If one religion turns out to be true, I would evaluate its content and make my determination from there. Christianity, which I understand better than any other religion, is so sick and twisted that I would need a long discussion with the almighty (where he actually verbally responds) before I even considered following that faith.

"The lifestyle and behaviors that I have picked up from my religion has enabled me to become a better member of society."
Please expound on this point, exactly what behaviors and exactly why you couldn't have picked them up from being raised atheist.

If you're an atheist, what if (hypothetically) there was absolute evidence of a god?

Find him and kick him as hard as I could. Can't say i'd be worshipping anyone who would let the terrible things happening all over the world continue while they could easily stop it. Especially when so many are done in his name...

We put our fingers in our ears and yell, "Lalalalalallallalalallalalalalalalalalalalala! Not Listening! Lalalalalalalalallalalalalala!"

Over and over on all forums I hear about people bashing everyone else's religion. Have we all become that extreme? I'll be honest, I'm Catholic, I attend Catholic mass, and enjoy it. However, I have not locked myself into the belief that everyone else is wrong. For the most part, my faith doesn't even require the existence of Jesus. I know that Christians around here will claim that I really am not Christian then, but you know what. I do believe in Jesus. I just don't think that should be the determining factor on whether you will agree with someone or not. If tomorrow someone gave full proof that Jesus never existed, I would still go to church and I would still call myself Christian. I would act exactly the same way. The lifestyle and behaviors that I have picked up from my religion has enabled me to become a better member of society. I'm sure many non-Christians believe the same, and I know a lot of people who are better members of society because of their non-Christian religions.

What would everyone else do if they found out beyond a shadow of a doubt that their religious "background" was fake?

And anthropologist friend of mine told me about an exchange he had with one of his colleagues whom he describes as "a rather devout member of the episcopal church."

And he said to her one day, "with all the things you've seen, all the implausible beliefs that you've learned about, and how you see all of those things in Christianity, how can you believe in God?"

She responded, "I don't believe in God. I believe in the Church."

Find him and kick him as hard as I could. Can't say i'd be worshipping anyone who would let the terrible things happening all over the world continue while they could easily stop it. Especially when so many are done in his name...

I'm ok with worshiping that, but I could never worship a god who is so easy to kick in the balls.

Over and over on all forums I hear about people bashing everyone else's religion. Have we all become that extreme? I'll be honest, I'm Catholic, I attend Catholic mass, and enjoy it. However, I have not locked myself into the belief that everyone else is wrong. For the most part, my faith doesn't even require the existence of Jesus. I know that Christians around here will claim that I really am not Christian then, but you know what. I do believe in Jesus. I just don't think that should be the determining factor on whether you will agree with someone or not. If tomorrow someone gave full proof that Jesus never existed, I would still go to church and I would still call myself Christian. I would act exactly the same way. The lifestyle and behaviors that I have picked up from my religion has enabled me to become a better member of society. I'm sure many non-Christians believe the same, and I know a lot of people who are better members of society because of their non-Christian religions.

What would everyone else do if they found out beyond a shadow of a doubt that their religious "background" was fake?

It's not something subject to proof, because religion is a faith thing. You believe it or you don't.

Besides, if someone wants to "prove" scientifically that Jesus exists (and God exists, as described in the Bible, and that Heaven and Hell exist), that's in the realm of the impossible - scientists wouldn't bother to try, and religious people won't use the scientific method to prove it.

Religious people obviously can't go around saying, "God exists because you can't prove He doesn't!". The scientific method doesn't take faith into account, because simple faith is by definition a fallacy.

I believe that trying to prove that God doesn't exist falls into the same category as you proving to me that you've stopped beating your mother.

What I've always wondered is when we die,

a. are we all wrong?
b. if one group of belief is right, what then?

Say the Buddhists were right. Or the Christians (specifically Catholics) were right? Or Christians (specifically Baptists) were right? Or Jews? Or Muslims?

What if we're all wrong? Let's say there's an afterlife and a being that no one has imagined yet, and we all end up there?

What if the atheists are right? Well, in that case, none of us will know.

Over and over on all forums I hear about people bashing everyone else's religion. Have we all become that extreme? I'll be honest, I'm Catholic, I attend Catholic mass, and enjoy it. However, I have not locked myself into the belief that everyone else is wrong. For the most part, my faith doesn't even require the existence of Jesus. I know that Christians around here will claim that I really am not Christian then, but you know what. I do believe in Jesus. I just don't think that should be the determining factor on whether you will agree with someone or not. If tomorrow someone gave full proof that Jesus never existed, I would still go to church and I would still call myself Christian. I would act exactly the same way. The lifestyle and behaviors that I have picked up from my religion has enabled me to become a better member of society. I'm sure many non-Christians believe the same, and I know a lot of people who are better members of society because of their non-Christian religions.

What would everyone else do if they found out beyond a shadow of a doubt that their religious "background" was fake?
It would not be possible for what you describe to happen to me, based on the nature of my belief system.

We'd all be fucked. Even if there were no punishments, we'd be cosmically fucked, because once we find out, we're all dead, because that's the only time we'll ever know. So we're dead, AND wrong. We begin research to find out if spirits can become drunk.

We'd all be fucked. Even if there were no punishments, we'd be cosmically fucked, because once we find out, we're all dead, because that's the only time we'll ever know. So we're dead, AND wrong. We begin research to find out if spirits can become drunk.

:D That is most excellent. I have no words for how excellent that whole line of thought is.

If someone showed me proof that the atheists are right I'd do what I can to help them show the evidence to everyone. Then we humans could just forget about the whole issue and focus on our own business proud of being the rulers of the known universe free to do whatever we fancy because we can finally be sure there are no consequences after death and no higher being who can hold us responsible. But on quiet moments I'd feel lonely and empty knowing God isn't there. I'd also be mentally weaker and less confident without my faith.

If they showed me proof that any other religion is right then I'd try to convince them to destroy it. What can we do if we know for sure for example that the only way to get into Valhalla is to die in battle or that women where reincarnated as female because they did bad things in a previous life and truly deserve to be second class citizens. Some things should never be proven. But personally I'd try to fulfill that religion's requirements for a good afterlife even if it would go against my morales. I'm not so stubborn that I'd rather suffer then change even after being presented with evidence.

But personally I'd try to fulfill that religion's requirements for a good afterlife even if it would go against my morales.

Nice

The followers of abrahamic religions would just harden their hearts and go on believing. They would not be believers in the first place if they had any use for reason.

So... anyone who believes anything at all is incapable of reason?

I think the one true religion will be the one that everyone will agree upon without need for conversion or argument. :sniper:

So either lets get the clash of religions over with and back one to win, brainwashing the entire human race or lets wait until we find a faith we can all agree upon. Perhaps the Great Pan will appear to us one day from the planet Vulcan and say "Hello, believe in me"

Only then, when everyone is convinced, do we have a chance to have the reality of World Peace, heaven on Earth, etc. :fluffle:

So you fundamentalists out there, either get the job done and win over all our hearts and minds or give up and let someone else win. I'm personally in favour of you all giving it a break.

If someone showed me proof that the atheists are right I'd do what I can to help them show the evidence to everyone. Then we humans could just forget about the whole issue and focus on our own business proud of being the rulers of the known universe free to do whatever we fancy because we can finally be sure there are no consequences after death and no higher being who can hold us responsible. But on quiet moments I'd feel lonely and empty knowing God isn't there. I'd also be mentally weaker and less confident without my faith.

If they showed me proof that any other religion is right then I'd try to convince them to destroy it. What can we do if we know for sure for example that the only way to get into Valhalla is to die in battle or that women where reincarnated as female because they did bad things in a previous life and truly deserve to be second class citizens. Some things should never be proven. But personally I'd try to fulfill that religion's requirements for a good afterlife even if it would go against my morales. I'm not so stubborn that I'd rather suffer then change even after being presented with evidence.

Well if you destroy the evidence, and everyone later finds out that they're not going to heaven because they weren't warriors in life and you had the power to tell them that but instead you doomed them, then you're kind of a bastard.

The truth is the truth. If you find the absolute truth in anything, it should be known.

I think the one true religion will be the one that everyone will agree upon without need for conversion or argument. :sniper:

So either lets get the clash of religions over with and back one to win, brainwashing the entire human race or lets wait until we find a faith we can all agree upon. Perhaps the Great Pan will appear to us one day from the planet Vulcan and say "Hello, believe in me"

Only then, when everyone is convinced, do we have a chance to have the reality of World Peace, heaven on Earth, etc. :fluffle:

So you fundamentalists out there, either get the job done and win over all our hearts and minds or give up and let someone else win. I'm personally in favour of you all giving it a break.

I vote for the religion that kills all those who use the gun emoticons.

I vote for the religion that kills all those who use the gun emoticons.

Its just as bigoted an opinion as some of the other religions, I suppose.

I'm in awe of your debating skills though, lets make you the High Priest!

Its just as bigoted an opinion as some of the other religions, I suppose.

I'm in awe of your debating skills though, lets make you the High Priest!

Damn skippy.

You get a reincarnation, though, so I hope that, in your new life as a jackrabbit, you will refrain from using gun emoticons.

Remember, we only give ONE reincarnation, then it's off to the corner of the universe with a dunce hat for you!

Pretty funny if the afterlife is like this...
http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2006/week23/index.html

It is my humble position that the only 'religion' worth pursuing is apatheism.
Whether or not there is a god is totally irrelevant.

I live my life in a manner that I consider to be ethical and moral. I do my best to be a good person - not out of fear of some divine punishment, but because I believe it to be the right thing to do for its own sake.

Any god worth worshiping will not condemn a good man for not spending his life kissing god's boots. Likewise, and reasonable god will not care that an evil man did good deeds only to curry favor with god, but will see the evil in the man's heart.

Either way, if a god cares more about kissing his boots than being a good person, it isnt a god worth devoting my life to.