NationStates Jolt Archive

Christians in Australia poured out of churches across the country, smashing store windows and setting fire to cars, chanting “Death to the Blake Society!” after an art competition included images of the Virgin Mary in a burqa, and Osama bin Laden morphing into Jesus Christ.

Oh, wait. No they didn’t.

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,22332032-5001028,00.html

CONTROVERSY has erupted over two entries in a prestigious art competition, one which depicts the Virgin Mary in a burqa and an image of Osama bin Laden which morphs into Jesus.

The work's have been entered into Australia's top religious art competition, the Blake Prize.

Prime Minister John Howard has been critical of the inclusion of the works, which he said were insulting and lacked any artistic merit, News Ltd reports.

“The choice of such artwork is gratuitously offensive to the religious beliefs of many Australians,” he said.

But the Uniting Church minister who chairs the Blake Society said his mission was to spark debate about spirituality in a world that was “cynical, degraded and in crisis”.

Well, yes, it's fine because when you insult Christian religion in public by making gratuitously offensive art, no one riots, planes aren't hijacked, and Christian ministers don't exhort screaming crowds of fanatics numbering in the millions to riot and rampage.

“It's really unfortunate people take liberties with the Christian faith they wouldn't take with other religions,” she said.

Silly girl. Everyone knows if you insult Islam, there's all sorts of death, mayhem, threats, and throatcuttery that will occur. Best to just insult Christianity - that way, no one gets hurt.

Lunacy transcends all religious boundaries!

Christians ought to take a page from the book of the Islamic protesters... at least they know how to get their way. Yep... violence solves EVERYTHING! *nods*

planes aren't hijacked

When was the last time a plane was hijacked?

Well of course this is because Muslims are degenerate barbarians and Christianity is the one true religion. Also, killing Muslims is better than sex, right DK/RO?

Really, your lame threads are actually getting more lame as time goes by.

Honestly, I didn't know there was a rule about showing the face of Jesus. Isn't that illegal or something in Christianity?

Wait. No. It isn't.

Nice try though. We all 't3h 3bul muslimz' are violent, you can stop trying.

When was the last time a plane was hijacked?

More precisely, when was the last time a plane was highjacked because of a joke on the Islam faith?

That's yet another of RO's nonsense stories used to slag muslim and arabs. Nice to see NS General hasn't changed much.

Lunacy transcends all religious boundaries!

Christians ought to take a page from the book of the Islamic protesters... at least they know how to get their way. Yep... violence solves EVERYTHING! *nods*

"But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also."

-Matthew 5:39

If only Christians were more opressed, then they wouldn't be so boring. ;)

If only Christians were more opressed, then they wouldn't be so boring. ;)

I don't think they're too oppressed in Western countries...

More precisely, when was the last time a plane was highjacked because of a joke on the Islam faith?

That's yet another of RO's nonsense stories used to slag muslim and arabs. Nice to see NS General hasn't changed much.

Actually, the indirect claim made me curious as to the overall state of plane hijackings.

You know, the kind we're so deathly scared about that we need a whole load of security, but that rarely if ever happen and aren't in vogue anymore, so the security becomes a whole slew of pointless administration.

I don't think they're too oppressed in Western countries...

Are you blind? I thought you were a True American, and yet you can't see it when it's right under your nose. . .

I don't think they're too oppressed in Western countries...

Exactly, we need to opress them more!

You can't blaspheme.

There's a distinct difference between blasphemy (taking the Lord your God's name in vain) and forbidding even an image of the likeness of Muhammad.

Honestly, I didn't know there was a rule about showing the face of Jesus. Isn't that illegal or something in Christianity?

Wait. No. It isn't.

Nice try though. We all 't3h 3bul muslimz' are violent, you can stop trying.

You can't blaspheme.

Honestly, I didn't know there was a rule about showing the face of Jesus. Isn't that illegal or something in Christianity?

No... but I think there is something about idols...

Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

Deuteronomy 5:8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:

I'm thinking that this might apply here. Of course, most Christians probably ignore this... the Catholics being the most notable group to make use of idols.

No... but I think there is something about idols...

Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

Deuteronomy 5:8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:

I'm thinking that this might apply here. Of course, most Christians probably ignore this... the Catholics being the most notable group to make use of idols.

Tsk tsk tsk. You know any real Christian ignores the OT except for those lines about gays. ;)

Plus, forbidding idols eliminates the cross as a symbol, doesn't it?

Are you blind? I thought you were a True American, and yet you can't see it when it's right under your nose. . .

You think Christians are opressed in the west? :rolleyes:

You think Christians are opressed in the west? :rolleyes:

http://www.dsfanboy.com/media/2006/02/Sarcasm.jpg

I don't think they're too oppressed in Western countries...
<sarcasm>

Oh but they are. Surely you realise this. After all, they can't have the Lord's prayer in the classroom; that's outright discrimination right there. I mean, who cares if there are Muslims, Jews, Sikhs and every other damn religion in that classroom when you can't make those heathens pray to YOUR God? ;)

</sarcasm>

You can't insult Muhammad, you can't insult Jesus.

Of course you don't insult Mohammed, but you break one of their important rules. They've been blacking out his face for centuries.

I'd liken the response to the Eucharist and Catholics, but with a more violent twinge.

There's a distinct difference between blasphemy (taking the Lord your God's name in vain) and forbidding even an image of the likeness of Muhammad.

You can't insult Muhammad, you can't insult Jesus.

Tsk tsk tsk. You know any real Christian ignores the OT except for those lines about gays. ;)

Plus, forbidding idols eliminates the cross as a symbol, doesn't it?

Oh yes I certainly do. :)

But yes, who needs to pay attention to those pesky passages when there are gays out there enjoying themselves and not hurting anyone. ;)

And then there's the Opus cartoon (http://www.salon.com/comics/opus/2007/08/26/opus/) that wasn't...Not at the Washington Post, anyway. It was too inflammatory.
http://boortz.com/images/082607_opus.jpg
I think Muslims need to grow a thicker skin if they want to live in the West.

I spy with my little eye...an Evil Muslim bashing thread!

The best RO can provide.

I spy with my little eye...an Evil Muslim bashing thread!

if christians were a large, relatively powerless and systematically demonised minority i bet this would be an entirely different story.

, and Christian ministers don't exhort screaming crowds of fanatics numbering in the millions to riot and rampage.


I wonder who it was who incited that mob about the growing number of papists that ended in a bit of a "crash relocation program" that saw the cousins on the mothers side fleeing with nothing but the clothes on their backs across the border to Donegal, eventually ending up in Boston....Some 1930's Derry Imam, I suppose....

SeriouslyROplease ive it up. Not every muslimis out to kill, torture, maim and otherwise hurt anyone. Many are peaceful people. See that....people.

Crazy liberal talk.

That won't save you when the men with beards come to Burqa yer wimminz, no sir.

http://static.flickr.com/6/69250266_8c1f5c979c.jpg

Seriously RO please give it up. Not every muslim is out to kill, torture, maim and otherwise hurt anyone. Many are peaceful people. See that....people.

Seriously RO please give it up. Not every muslim is out to kill, torture, maim and otherwise hurt anyone. Many are peaceful people. See that....people.

Strawman, I don't think RO ever suggested that every muslim is out to kill etc...

Strawman, I don't think RO ever suggested that every muslim is out to kill etc...

...in this thread, maybe.

RODKWL, are you implying that every single time Islam is mocked there is violent retaliation?

And then there's the Opus cartoon (http://www.salon.com/comics/opus/2007/08/26/opus/) that wasn't...Not at the Washington Post, anyway. It was too inflammatory.
http://boortz.com/images/082607_opus.jpg
I think Muslims need to grow a thicker skin if they want to live in the West.


It was on the Washington Post website but not in print.

You think all Muslims need to grow a thicker skin or just the small violent minority?

You seem to speak as if there aren't thin skinned US Americans, or that there aren't US Americans who are violent over nothing, or that there aren't US Americans that don't kill gays because they are sinners, or that there aren't US Americans that rape and beat their wifes and children...


EDIT: They flag a lot of cartoons if they have race or sex jokes too from what I read. There were some Muslim staffers at The Washington post that reacted emotionally to the comic strip. They also said that they were worried about some Muslim clients and therefore the loss of revenue.

I was on the website but not in print I think.

You think all Muslims need to grow a thicker skin or just the small violent minority?

You seem to speak as if there aren't thin skinned US Americans, or that there aren't US Americans who are violent over nothing, or that there aren't US Americans that don't kill gays because they are sinners, or that there aren't US Americans that rape and beat their wifes and children...

Oh there are, there are, there are, and there are! But it's only bad when Muslims do it.

Christians in Australia poured out of churches across the country, smashing store windows and setting fire to cars, chanting “Death to the Blake Society!” after an art competition included images of the Virgin Mary in a burqa, and Osama bin Laden morphing into Jesus Christ.

Oh, wait. No they didn’t.

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,22332032-5001028,00.html



Well, yes, it's fine because when you insult Christian religion in public by making gratuitously offensive art, no one riots, planes aren't hijacked, and Christian ministers don't exhort screaming crowds of fanatics numbering in the millions to riot and rampage.



Silly girl. Everyone knows if you insult Islam, there's all sorts of death, mayhem, threats, and throatcuttery that will occur. Best to just insult Christianity - that way, no one gets hurt.

Well, Christians are well fed. Nuff' said.

You don't riot when you live in a nation where your needs are met, like the US or UK. However, when you and your family come from a poor, ultra-conservative religious state where political freedom is zilch to none, rioting may be the only way to voice your opinions. Or at least vent some anger.

I never did get an answer.

When was the last time anyone hijacked an airplane?

Six years ago, wasn't it?

(Come on people, I am honestly curious here!)

Oh there are, there are, there are, and there are! But it's only bad when Muslims do it.

OH, my bad.

Christians in Australia poured out of churches across the country, smashing store windows and setting fire to cars, chanting “Death to the Blake Society!” after an art competition included images of the Virgin Mary in a burqa, and Osama bin Laden morphing into Jesus Christ.

Oh, wait. No they didn’t.

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,22332032-5001028,00.html



Well, yes, it's fine because when you insult Christian religion in public by making gratuitously offensive art, no one riots, planes aren't hijacked, and Christian ministers don't exhort screaming crowds of fanatics numbering in the millions to riot and rampage.



Silly girl. Everyone knows if you insult Islam, there's all sorts of death, mayhem, threats, and throatcuttery that will occur. Best to just insult Christianity - that way, no one gets hurt.

And they say Americans are crazy.

I'm thinking that this might apply here. Of course, most Christians probably ignore this... the Catholics being the most notable group to make use of idols.
No, there is a difference between worshiping idols and building statues. What qualifies an idol is not how its made, but what it is used for.

I agree with Siylva here. Rioting is a sort of mass de-stresser, it doesn't require much.
That being said, I'm sure the artist would love for a riot to occur. I can't see why else he would make it.

I never did get an answer.

When was the last time anyone hijacked an airplane?

Six years ago, wasn't it?

(Come on people, I am honestly curious here!)

A couple of weeks ago..? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6952594.stm)

A couple of weeks ago..? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6952594.stm)

:p

Thank you. Couple of weeks ago works too. Just found it funny he mentioned hijackings but that I hadn't heard of any in ages.

Edit: now I know why too :/ They all happen in Turkey and end in Turkey, usually by people western media aren't interested in unless they get further west than Turkey.

Thank you. SNIP
You're welcome.
To be completely honest, I don't remember any other than that happening in ages either. I only know about that one because I have this special interest in all things concerning Cyprus. In a hijacking scale of 0 to 5 it really didn't even register. I've pulled better stag night pranks than that!

No, there is a difference between worshiping idols and building statues. What qualifies an idol is not how its made, but what it is used for.
The symbolism of it. :) A cross doesn't mean anything until associated with Christianity, at which point it becomes an identifying symbol of that faith.

The symbolism of it. :) A cross doesn't mean anything until associated with Christianity, at which point it becomes an identifying symbol of that faith.
And a cross not dipped in urine doesn't work symbolical wonders like a Piss Christ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piss_Christ)...

The symbolism of it. :) A cross doesn't mean anything until associated with Christianity, at which point it becomes an identifying symbol of that faith.
Right, but there is a different between a symbol and idol. If Christians worshiped the cross, it would be an idol. If they use it as a way to show they are Christians, it's not.

Christians in Australia poured out of churches across the country, smashing store windows and setting fire to cars, chanting “Death to the Blake Society!” after an art competition included images of the Virgin Mary in a burqa, and Osama bin Laden morphing into Jesus Christ.

Oh, wait. No they didn’t.

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,22332032-5001028,00.html



Well, yes, it's fine because when you insult Christian religion in public by making gratuitously offensive art, no one riots, planes aren't hijacked, and Christian ministers don't exhort screaming crowds of fanatics numbering in the millions to riot and rampage.



Silly girl. Everyone knows if you insult Islam, there's all sorts of death, mayhem, threats, and throatcuttery that will occur. Best to just insult Christianity - that way, no one gets hurt.

Islam is 600 years younger than Christianity.

600 years ago, not being Christian was pretty much enough, on it's own, to condemn you to death.

By comparison, Islam is butterflies and kisses.

It was on the Washington Post website but not in print.

You think all Muslims need to grow a thicker skin or just the small violent minority?

You seem to speak as if there aren't thin skinned US Americans, or that there aren't US Americans who are violent over nothing, or that there aren't US Americans that don't kill gays because they are sinners, or that there aren't US Americans that rape and beat their wifes and children...


EDIT: They flag a lot of cartoons if they have race or sex jokes too from what I read. There were some Muslim staffers at The Washington post that reacted emotionally to the comic strip. They also said that they were worried about some Muslim clients and therefore the loss of revenue.
That third paragraph is a little disingenuous, don't you think? Let's compare similar events and see what the outcome is.

Opus comic strip is published, depicting a unflattering cartoon about Jerry Falwell...You probably don't even know that. It's not news. Christian backlash isn't considered because it won't happen.

Opus comic strip is not published because the Post is afraid of Muslim backlash.

On one hand, we have a group of religious people that don't take to the streets and protest every time a picture of their prophet is published. On the other hand, we have a group that newspapers treat with kid gloves because they're afraid of the backlash...

Which group needs to grow a few new layers of skin?

Christians in Australia poured out of churches across the country, smashing store windows and setting fire to cars, chanting “Death to the Blake Society!” after an art competition included images of the Virgin Mary in a burqa, and Osama bin Laden morphing into Jesus Christ.

Oh, wait. No they didn’t.

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,22332032-5001028,00.html



Well, yes, it's fine because when you insult Christian religion in public by making gratuitously offensive art, no one riots, planes aren't hijacked, and Christian ministers don't exhort screaming crowds of fanatics numbering in the millions to riot and rampage.



Silly girl. Everyone knows if you insult Islam, there's all sorts of death, mayhem, threats, and throatcuttery that will occur. Best to just insult Christianity - that way, no one gets hurt.

Idiots. Jesus wouldn't care if you insulted him, why should they? As for Mohammad, I'm not entirely sure he was so laid-back....

You know, there are various Christian terrorist organization in the world, such as the Army of God, the National Liberation Front of Tripura, the Lord's Resistance Army, the Freedomites, those in America which bomb clinics, the KKK, the IRA, and many many more.

By your logic all Christians are terrorists(Since, you know, apparently a small minority of a group is representative of the entire group).

I can go further with this, really, to making everyone in the world a violent rioter.

Why is it OK to have images of Jesus (who is considered a prophet in Islam) but not Mohammed? Mohammed wasn't a god. Mohammed specifically denied being a god. Why should he be revered above other prophets?

Come to think of it, why is it considered blasphemy to insult Mohammed? Allah I could understand, but someone who went to great lengths to avoid being considered a god, to the point where 'Mohammedan' is now considered offensive as it supposedly implies Muslims worship Mohammed...? Calvinists don't worship John Calvin, Lutherans don't worship Martin Luther, Kahanists do not worship Meir Kahane, and Marxists and Stalinists do not worship Karl Marx or Joseph Stalin. Followers of Juche AKA Kimilsungism do worship Kim Il-sung, but they're brainwashed. Mohammedans DO NOT worship Mohammed.

Now, I'm an atheist myself, so take this with a grain of salt. Has anyone thought about the possibility that maybe the entity (let's call him Allah) who dictated the Koran to the illiterate Mohammed got sick of people worshipping the messenger (to believe Islam, the god of Judaism and Christianity is the same as the god of Islam) and decided to speak through someone who WASN'T lily white, someone who had a few vices, someone who liked having sex with nine-year-old girls in his 50's, raping Jewish women, and murdering critics? After all, nobody would worship such a reprobate - Allah would get all the credit for writing the Koran. (My personal belief is that Mohammed dictated the Koran to his companions, and Allah had nothing to do with it.)

Trust John Howard to say 'The choice of such artwork is gratuitously offensive to the religious beliefs of many Australians', he can go and die in a fire for all I care, he only has his job for like a month of two anyways.

I never did get an answer.

When was the last time anyone hijacked an airplane?

Six years ago, wasn't it?

(Come on people, I am honestly curious here!)

http://breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8R39GL80&show_article=1&catnum=0

How about 11 days ago?

http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2007/08/20/report_hijacker_went_to_al_qaida_camp/

You can't blaspheme.

I can so, God damn it! I can say anything I -- *gets hit by lightning bolt*

Well erupting in violence, shouting death to the west probably wouldn't be the CHRISTIAN thing to do.

Good on them for not being violent about it.:)

Good for them. Even if something is offensive, and is specifically designed to be offensive, like these images, you don't respond with violence, especially not against innocent people. This is a good example of tolerance that the Muslim fanatics who rioted about those images of Mohammed and made death threats should learn from.

That third paragraph is a little disingenuous, don't you think? Let's compare similar events and see what the outcome is.

Opus comic strip is published, depicting a unflattering cartoon about Jerry Falwell...You probably don't even know that. It's not news. Christian backlash isn't considered because it won't happen.

Opus comic strip is not published because the Post is afraid of Muslim backlash.

On one hand, we have a group of religious people that don't take to the streets and protest every time a picture of their prophet is published. On the other hand, we have a group that newspapers treat with kid gloves because they're afraid of the backlash...

Which group needs to grow a few new layers of skin?


You want to compare similar events? Okay then tell me how many times US American Muslims rioted over a cartoon (or satire of Islam of any sort in US media) mocking radical Islam in the history of our country.

You don't think comics mocking Christians have ever been unpublished?

You want to compare similar events? Okay then tell me how many times US American Muslims rioted over a cartoon (or satire of Islam of any sort in US media) mocking radical Islam in the history of our country.

You don't think comics mocking Christians have ever been unpublished?

Shhh... don't spoil his day in the sun. You know, few things bring people from all over the world together, and apparently declaring all Muslims regardless of where they come from, where they live and how they actually behave to be subhuman Al Qaeda cell members and supporters that need to be exterminated like cockroaches is one of them.

Shhh... don't spoil his day in the sun. You know, few things bring people from all over the world together, and apparently declaring all Muslims regardless of where they come from, where they live and how they actually behave to be subhuman Al Qaeda cell members and supporters that need to be exterminated like cockroaches is one of them.



It's ridiculous... Muslims shouldn't be here in the west if there are going to be a few asshole Muslims somewhere out there in the world.

I guess the rest of the world should deport all US Americans back to the states because of the stupid crap it's citizens and it's govt do.

Shhh... don't spoil his day in the sun. You know, few things bring people from all over the world together, and apparently declaring all Muslims regardless of where they come from, where they live and how they actually behave to be subhuman Al Qaeda cell members and supporters that need to be exterminated like cockroaches is one of them.

Unfortunately, like every other religion, grievous acts have been committed supposedly in the name of Christ. As a Christian, I'll admit that.

You don't move on from your past without recognising it.

Unfortunately, like every other religion, grievous acts have been committed supposedly in the name of Christ. As a Christian, I'll admit that.

You don't move on from your past without recognising it.

Of course the standard responses to that will be "That was in the past" and "They're an insignificant minority that aren't really Christians, unlike those damn dirty Al Qaeda ragheads who chop off people's heads every time someone draws a cartoon about their religion."

If only Christians were more opressed, then they wouldn't be so boring. ;)

They've already lost the war on logic and sensibility, i suppose that keeps 'em up at nights sometimes.

Well, yes, it's fine because when you insult Christian religion in public by making gratuitously offensive art, no one riots, planes aren't hijacked, and Christian ministers don't exhort screaming crowds of fanatics numbering in the millions to riot and rampage.



Silly girl. Everyone knows if you insult Islam, there's all sorts of death, mayhem, threats, and throatcuttery that will occur. Best to just insult Christianity - that way, no one gets hurt.

Sad, but true. Christianity regularly gets bashed like a pinata in the media, particularly in this forum and it's "an expression of artistic freedom and free speech", and "you just have to expect that", and "don't be so sensitive". It wouldn't be so annoying if the societal rules weren't so blatantly and selectively applied. All the comments you seem to hear about Christianity are almost unanimously negative.

It must tell you something that so many hate Christianity so vehemently, when all they do is preach love for your fellow man and forgiveness.

Sad, but true. Christianity regularly gets bashed like a pinata in the media, particularly in this forum and it's "an expression of artistic freedom and free speech", and "you just have to expect that", and "don't be so sensitive". It wouldn't be so annoying if the societal rules weren't so blatantly and selectively applied. All the comments you seem to hear about Christianity are almost unanimously negative.

It must tell you something that so many hate Christianity so vehemently, when all they do is preach love for your fellow man and forgiveness.

I don't hate Christianity, I hate Christians.

No... but I think there is something about idols...

Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

Deuteronomy 5:8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:

I'm thinking that this might apply here. Of course, most Christians probably ignore this... the Catholics being the most notable group to make use of idols.

Here are a few other scripture passages where God actually instructs images to be created for religious purposes:

God told Moses to "make [a statue of] a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it shall live. So Moses made a bronze serpent, and set it on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live" (Num. 21:8–9).

"And you shall make two cherubim of gold [i.e., two gold statues of angels]; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece of the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends. The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be" (Ex. 25:18–20).

David gave Solomon the plan "for the altar of incense made of refined gold, and its weight; also his plan for the golden chariot of the cherubim that spread their wings and covered the ark of the covenant of the Lord. All this he made clear by the writing of the hand of the Lord concerning it all, all the work to be done according to the plan" (1 Chr. 28:18–19). David’s plan for the temple, which the biblical author tells us was "by the writing of the hand of the Lord concerning it all," included statues of angels.

Similarly Ezekiel 41:17–18 describes graven (carved) images in the idealized temple he was shown in a vision, for he writes, "On the walls round about in the inner room and [on] the nave were carved likenesses of cherubim."

http://www.catholic.com/library/Do_Catholics_Worship_Statues.asp


It's more likely that the prohibition that you quoted in Deuteronomy refers to not worshiping images of animals be it in the heavens (some translations use the word "sky" instead of heaven) or on the earth. Likewise, they are not to worship any worldly thing or false god. Catholics do not make idols. Idols, by definition, are either objects of worship or false gods. Catholics do not worship objects nor do they worship false gods.

When I read heard about the Muslims freaking out after those cartoons, I thought about how they act like children who don't get what they want.

The shithead kid part of me wants to do as much as I can to piss off all Muslims because they kill each other when it happens. Maybe i'll make a good video mocking every part of Islam and send it to the Middle East and Europe. I bet I could cause millions of idiots to freak out. I'd love to see it.

They look for any reason to hate the West. If one person here says anything bad about Islam then they want to kill everyone in the country.

Here are a few other scripture passages where God actually instructs images to be created for religious purposes:
-SNIP-

:) When I was looking up the passages, I found those ones as well. I just thought of using those ones that reflected the negative. The passages you brought up make it clear that the Bible is full of contradictions, and this is just one of many examples.

"But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also."

-Matthew 5:39

Romans
1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Well of course this is because Muslims are degenerate barbarians and Christianity is the one true religion. Also, killing Muslims is better than sex, right DK/RO?

Really, your lame threads are actually getting more lame as time goes by.
I like it how people who can't think of a logicial argument against an obervation resorts to attacks on the poster as if that makes it all better.

Where did he advocate the killing of Muslims in this thread.

where did he say that Christianity is the 'one true religion'.

if you can't focus on the topic of the thread, perhaps you should just put RO on ignore.

Islam is 600 years younger than Christianity.

600 years ago, not being Christian was pretty much enough, on it's own, to condemn you to death.

By comparison, Islam is butterflies and kisses.
Really? I thought Islam was older than Christianity. About as old as the Jewish Faith.

I like it how people who can't think of a logicial argument against an obervation resorts to attacks on the poster as if that makes it all better.

I like it how you think RO is a "poster" and not a troll.

Where did he advocate the killing of Muslims in this thread.


It's implied.


where did he say that Christianity is the 'one true religion'.


It's implied.


if you can't focus on the topic of the thread, perhaps you should just put RO on ignore.


Perhaps you should put me on ignore. You aren't focusing on the topic of the thread, see.

Really? I thought Islam was older than Christianity. About as old as the Jewish Faith.

Christianity began shortly after the death of Christ.

Islam began hundreds of years later.

Really? I thought Islam was older than Christianity. About as old as the Jewish Faith.

Muslims believe so, but they're wrong. IIRC, Islam teaches that it is the 'original' religion and was practised by Adam and Eve in Eden long before the Covenant with Abraham. In reality it was founded in the fourteenth century.

...In reality it was founded in the fourteenth century.In which reality?

I like it how you think RO is a "poster" and not a troll.They are posting... thus, poster. A troll also 'posts', thus a troll is a poster. :p

Perhaps you should put me on ignore. You aren't focusing on the topic of the thread, see.nah, because there are times where you do post meaningful and insightful arguments that I would otherwise miss if I put you on ignore.

Muslims believe so, but they're wrong. IIRC, Islam teaches that it is the 'original' religion and was practised by Adam and Eve in Eden long before the Covenant with Abraham. In reality it was founded in the fourteenth century.???

this doesn't make sense. do you have a link to back this up?

Really? I thought Islam was older than Christianity. About as old as the Jewish Faith.

As the founding of an organised religion, Islam has to date from the time of Mohammed - which would make it about... 1400 years old.

But, it's in the nature of Abrahamic religion to claim continuity from alpha to omega.

Christianity began shortly after the death of Christ.

Islam began hundreds of years later.

Christianity (as one organised religion) began centuries after the alleged death of Jesus, who some believe was the Christ - if he ever existed.

Correction provided gratis. You're welcome.

*Snip*
Oh. I thought you were going to make a thread about the angry christians starting fights and setting fire to stuff because of this:

http://www.ohlson.se/images/eccehomo/nattvarden.jpg

http://www.ohlson.se/images/eccehomo/veropet.jpg

Happened in Sweden...

Oh. I thought you were going to make a thread about the angry christians starting fights and setting fire to stuff because of this:

http://www.ohlson.se/images/eccehomo/nattvarden.jpg

http://www.ohlson.se/images/eccehomo/veropet.jpg

Happened in Sweden...


See... this has been up for hours and nothing...

but draw one pic of Mohammad... :p

http://www.nicholsoncartoons.com.au/cartoons/new/2006-02-09%20Cartoon%20Muhammed%20Christian%20Jew%20Muslim%20joke%20550.JPG

They are posting... thus, poster. A troll also 'posts', thus a troll is a poster. :p


...okay, you have me there.

Still, the main point is that RO isn't posting for honest discussion. He himself has lied numerous times in the past, for example about him being DK. I've no need to bat down strawmen or fictions.


nah, because there are times where you do post meaningful and insightful arguments that I would otherwise miss if I put you on ignore.


Awww. :)

...okay, you have me there.

Still, the main point is that RO isn't posting for honest discussion. He himself has lied numerous times in the past, for example about him being DK. I've no need to bat down strawmen or fictions.true, his/her/their "kill all da ebil moslum" threads were... well, big, blatent targets that really provided alot of fuel for the bonfire. but other times, there are the rare thread subject that is discussion worthy and would be if others not focus on the poster.

Christians in Australia poured out of churches across the country, smashing store windows and setting fire to cars, chanting “Death to the Blake Society!” after an art competition included images of the Virgin Mary in a burqa, and Osama bin Laden morphing into Jesus Christ.

Oh, wait. No they didn’t.

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,22332032-5001028,00.html



Well, yes, it's fine because when you insult Christian religion in public by making gratuitously offensive art, no one riots, planes aren't hijacked, and Christian ministers don't exhort screaming crowds of fanatics numbering in the millions to riot and rampage.



Silly girl. Everyone knows if you insult Islam, there's all sorts of death, mayhem, threats, and throatcuttery that will occur. Best to just insult Christianity - that way, no one gets hurt.

It's not about religion, or about tolerance. It's about power.

Call a black guy a ****** and he'll beat the crap out of you while onlookers nod in approval.

Call a white guy a cracker and he'll laugh at you.

Christians are in power and thus, don't feel threatened by insults towards their faith. Islams are acutely aware of a powerful force, hostile to Islam, looming over them. It makes them touchy.

Myo was here? *sobs*

It's not about religion, or about tolerance. It's about power.

Call a black guy a ****** and he'll beat the crap out of you while onlookers nod in approval.

Call a white guy a cracker and he'll laugh at you.

Christians are in power and thus, don't feel threatened by insults towards their faith. Islams are acutely aware of a powerful force, hostile to Islam, looming over them. It makes them touchy.

That it's about other things than "just a cartoon" is difficult to understand for some people, it seems...

When I read heard about the Muslims freaking out after those cartoons, I thought about how they act like children who don't get what they want.

The shithead kid part of me wants to do as much as I can to piss off all Muslims because they kill each other when it happens. Maybe i'll make a good video mocking every part of Islam and send it to the Middle East and Europe. I bet I could cause millions of idiots to freak out. I'd love to see it.

They look for any reason to hate the West. If one person here says anything bad about Islam then they want to kill everyone in the country.

(Boldface mine.)

Who, pray tell, is this ubiquitous "they" who all think and act alike? I've never heard of such a group of people.

...okay, you have me there.

Still, the main point is that RO isn't posting for honest discussion. He himself has lied numerous times in the past, for example about him being DK. I've no need to bat down strawmen or fictions.

Awww. :)

Sure I am. This isn't fiction.

And the mods have said it's not trolling.

That it's about other things than "just a cartoon" is difficult to understand for some people, it seems...

The Swedish PM is smrater than you are:

http://www.svd.se/dynamiskt/inrikes/did_16955772.asp

Translation:
I think it is important to say two things. The first is that we have been very keen on a Sweden that will be a country where muslims and Christians, those that believe in God and those who don’t, can live side by side in mutual respect. We think that we have come very far. I have a responsibility for this to continue and to take initiative to deepen this reciprocity and respect.

At the same time we are very focused on standing up for freedom of expression which is a basic right in the law and which comes natural to us and which ensures that we do not make political decisions about what is published in newspapers. I want to keep it this way.

It's one thing to poke fun of your own religion; it's another to poke fun of someone else’s religion. That's what some Westerners must come to understand. If they can't understand that, they are more arrogant and backward then the "rioting Muslims" they see on TV.

And some additional translation:

from another member of the Swedish government:

There is no reason to keep quiet about this question. One must be crystal clear that in Sweden it is not the government that decides what appears in newspapers. Iran should change their own press laws and not try to change ours.

The Swedish PM is smrater than you are:

http://www.svd.se/dynamiskt/inrikes/did_16955772.asp

Translation:

What has that got to do with his point?

Christians are in power and thus, don't feel threatened by insults towards their faith. Islams are acutely aware of a powerful force, hostile to Islam, looming over them. It makes them touchy.

Islam's the second biggest religion in the world and growing quickly...the Jews were treated like shit and were brutalized and mocked for millenia, and really were a minority and they have never acted out like this. Those rioters were just a bunch of ignorant fanatics that tarnish other Muslims and damage the image of their faith.

Islam's the second biggest religion in the world and growing quickly...the Jews were treated like shit and were brutalized and mocked for millenia, and really were a minority and they have never acted out like this. Those rioters were just a bunch of ignorant fanatics that tarnish other Muslims and damage the image of their faith.

Well the Jews are being backed by the mighty Christian nations though...



Edit: Never acted out violently? http://press.princeton.edu/titles/8213.html

Well the Jews are being backed by the mighty Christian nations though...

Only after shoveling millions of them into ovens.

Still, there is some Jew hating out there, even among Christians.

Only after shoveling millions of them into ovens.

Still, there is some Jew hating out there, even among Christians.

Every group has someone in their group who will hate some other group no matter how much they are preached to about love and doing good.

The Jews have overcome great adversity before the creation of Israel and I give them lots of credit for that. I would guess though that not all Jews have been peaceful and non-violent, having never acted out and unjustly killed others before or after the creation of Israel. But thats just a minority of Jews right? Where as the majority of Muslims are violent.... oh wait.

Every group has someone in their group who will hate some other group no matter how much they are preached to about love and doing good.

The Jews have overcome great adversity before the creation of Israel and I give them lots of credit for that. I would guess though that not all Jews have been peaceful and non-violent, having never acted out and unjustly killed others before or after the creation of Israel. But thats just a minority of Jews right? Where as the majority of Muslims are violent.... oh wait.

In their time of waging terror (Menachem Begin, anyone) they were terrorists.

Anyone who supported the creation of Israel by such means was a terrorist to me.

If we look, however, at who is doing the majority of terrorism today, it's militant Muslims (no sense in me typing that - you'll say I said all Muslims).

Over 90%.

Only after shoveling millions of them into ovens.


Jew have been treated like crap in the West for hundreds, even thousands of years. In Europe, they weren't a second class citizen, they were barely a citizen. Widespread disdain for the Jewish population was even prevalent well into the 20th century, and quite frankly a good portion of the populace just didn't give a rat's ass about the Jews plight(Most of the countries enterred WWII not because of what was happening to the Jews, which although not well-known, there were stories that leaked out), but instead because of action against them. Quite frankly, had Hitler just killed the Jews and had been done with it, you'd find that the sentiment likely would have been something along the lines of:

"Huh, the Jews are gone."

However, it was only after the Allies had seen what had occurred in Nazi Germany, and the atrocities committed by the Nazi party upon the Jews(And Christians, Romani, Homosexuals, etc.), that this sentiment really died off almost completely. As well, it was of great political importance to do so, as being seen as antisemitic would associate yourself with the Nazi party(After world war II), the Great enemy we had fought off from conquering the world, in a sense. As such, although people were still antisemitic, officially they had to garner a more moderate viewpoint so as to distance themselves from the Nazi party(Political suicide, in a sense, to be associated with the Nazis and Germany).

Now, this a growing tolerance of the Jewish populace, at least politically, towards them. This, in turn, lead to an increase of tolerance among society, as the governments were not enforcing the myths of Jews, allowing a more tolerant viewpoint to arise.

There are other factors, as well, but I have class in 10 minutes. :/

Basically: Up until very recently, the Jews were not very well liked, anywhere.


Still, there is some Jew hating out there, even among Christians.

If there is a group of people, you will always find another group who hates them.

In their time of waging terror (Menachem Begin, anyone) they were terrorists.

Anyone who supported the creation of Israel by such means was a terrorist to me.

If we look, however, at who is doing the majority of terrorism today, it's militant Muslims (no sense in me typing that - you'll say I said all Muslims).

Over 90%.

Eh, no.

In the US, you are more likely to fall victim to domestic terrorism than international, for example.

It's just that since a group of Muslims attacked us, they are making headway in the media. It's great for ratings.

In truth, there are terrorists groups across the world, from Christian to Muslim to Jewish to Hindu to Anarchists to Environmentalists to what have you.

Muslim terrorists today only make up the portion that most commonly is reported on. Not the majority.

Eh, no.

In the US, you are more likely to fall victim to domestic terrorism than international, for example.

It's just that since a group of Muslims attacked us, they are making headway in the media. It's great for ratings.

In truth, there are terrorists groups across the world, from Christian to Muslim to Jewish to Hindu to Anarchists to Environmentalists to what have you.

Muslim terrorists today only make up the portion that most commonly is reported on. Not the majority.

The majority of acts of terror that are committed around the world are committed by militant Muslims. Period.

The majority of acts of terror that are committed around the world are committed by militant Muslims. Period.



Prove it or shut your racist mouth.

In their time of waging terror (Menachem Begin, anyone) they were terrorists.

Anyone who supported the creation of Israel by such means was a terrorist to me.

If we look, however, at who is doing the majority of terrorism today, it's militant Muslims (no sense in me typing that - you'll say I said all Muslims).

Over 90%.

I was merely saying that Domici had a good point about lashing out when feeling threatened. Today Muslims are feeling the greatest threat from a hostile Christian/Jewish alliance.

http://press.princeton.edu/titles/8213.html

Am I saying that no Muslims are violent? No.
Am I saying that they are justified in all of their terrorist attacks? No.
I was merely saying that Domici made a great point.
There is no religion or or country that doesn't have blood on it's hands as far as I am aware. I could be wrong. I'm not a history buff.

Prove it or shut your racist mouth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamist_terrorism

According to statistics gathered by the National Counterterrorism Center of the United States, Islamic extremism was responsible for approximately 57% of terrorist fatalities and 61% of woundings in 2004 and early 2005, where a terrorist perpetrator could be specified. [1] Extremist acts have included airline hijacking, beheading, kidnapping, assassination, roadside bombing, suicide bombing, and occasionally rape.

Ok, not 90%, but definitely a majority.

The majority of acts of terror that are committed around the world are committed by militant Muslims. Period.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamist_terrorism



Ok, not 90%, but definitely a majority.


So, you're a lair then. In addition to being a racist.

It's one thing to poke fun of your own religion; it's another to poke fun of someone else’s religion. That's what some Westerners must come to understand. If they can't understand that, they are more arrogant and backward then the "rioting Muslims" they see on TV.

Drawing a cartoon is more backwards than rioting and inciting murder? I'll take two of whatever you're smoking please.

So, you're a lair then. In addition to being a racist.

I don't like RO's Islamophobia any more than you do, but liar implies intent to deceive. Since he posted a link which showed he was wrong and admitted as much it was a mistake, not a lie.

I don't like RO's Islamophobia any more than you do, but liar implies intent to deceive. Since he posted a link which showed he was wrong and admitted as much it was a mistake, not a lie.



Meh, whatever, he is still a racist douchebag.

Well the Jews are being backed by the mighty Christian nations though...

And because of that, Israel is a lot more aggressive and willing to take military action than it would be if it had to support itself.

Edit: Never acted out violently? http://press.princeton.edu/titles/8213.html

The Jews exterminated entire cultures in their early history...

So, you're a lair then. In addition to being a racist.

No, the statement about "majority" is true. The 90% is an exaggeration, and incorrect.

But it still stands - and proven by link - the majority of terrorism acts around the world are caused by militant Muslims.

Considering that Muslims are not a race, it's hard to say I'm racist.

The people in Chechnya are not the same race as the people in Malaysia, nor the same race as the people in Saudi Arabia.

Oh, and as for domestic... http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/pdf/dcpi/NYPD_Report-Radicalization_in_the_West.pdf

Yep, Christians didn't "riot" over that artwork.

Clearly that makes them superior to Muslims. I mean, it's not like Christian leaders call for execution of foreign leaders.... right Pat Robertson? Or picket soldier's funerals because they support the homosexual nation...right Mr. Phelps? (and, for those who want to distinguish - there were many Muslims who protested the noted cartoons and did not riot).

Hey, how many abortion providers have been murdered? How many clinics bombed? Anyone remember the Branch Dividians? How about Oklahoma City?

A gay person has never been beaten to death by a person espousing their faith?

The KKK didn't thump their bibles along with their africans?

A bunch of Christians weren't convicted of attacking and beheading two muslim fishermen for the sin of being muslim in Indonesia a couple of years back?

A Christian protest in Kerala India didn't turn violent just a couple of weeks ago because they didn't even want other christians to pray at a given site?

Christian mobs didn't tear through Onitsha Nigeria last year burning mosques and killing Muslims?

Say? Who DID sent that anthrax around in 2001?

Look at the love and peace for decades in Northern Ireland? Nope, no mobs, protests, rioting, or terrorism in the name of a Christian God there!

I wonder, how many schools boards still have Huck Finn on their reading list? Oh, the good old days of ritual book burning in middle america. Gosh, that hasn't happened in... what, a couple of years since some Christian groups decided that Harry Potter was teh ebil?

Or picketed the Oscars because Brokeback Mountain was teh ebil?

Or picket outside abortion clinics trying to intimidate young girls?

Nope, christians would never do such things, not in todays enlightened age. They're too Christian!

But you're right - there was no mob after this one particular art contest. Clearly, that means that Christians couldn't possibly do anything stupid.....

Here are some verses in the Qur'an that tell Muslims to go and kill anyone who is not a Muslim
The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter; [Qur'an 5:33]

But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. [Qur'an 9:5]

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! [Qur'an 9:29-30]
Oh and here are some more
2:216, 3:151, 7:4-5, 8:12, 45:11, 41:27-28, 35:26, 6:49, 5:73, 18:29, 98:6,8:65, 8:39, 3:106, 61:9 and 8:36
So from there own book it says that they need to kill anyone who does not believe what they do. This is not from them its from the place they get there beliefs. How can you say they are peaceful, when there holy book tells them to slay the pagans?

...the Jews were treated like shit and were brutalized and mocked for millenia, and really were a minority and they have never acted out like this...

I'm guessing you've not heard of "The Old Testament". Honestly, these days, if there isn't a movie about it, it didn't happen...

Draconicopia;13014524']Here are some verses in the Qur'an that tell Muslims to go and kill anyone who is not a Muslim
The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter; [Qur'an 5:33]

But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. [Qur'an 9:5]

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! [Qur'an 9:29-30]
Oh and here are some more
2:216, 3:151, 7:4-5, 8:12, 45:11, 41:27-28, 35:26, 6:49, 5:73, 18:29, 98:6,8:65, 8:39, 3:106, 61:9 and 8:36
So from there own book it says that they need to kill anyone who does not believe what they do. This is not from them its from the place they get there beliefs. How can you say they are peaceful, when there holy book tells them to slay the pagans?

Bible says the same thing, right?

I have to ask... is this your translation of the original texts... or are you relying on someone else to decide what you read?

Well, Christians are well fed. Nuff' said.



Of course cause all christians in the world have never had to suffer through persecution of their religion or be in physical torture because of their beliefs. I mean even though its the largest religiion in the world, all of the christians are merely located in nice western suburban homes and happen to all be of the WASP variety.

I'm guessing you've not heard of "The Old Testament". Honestly, these days, if there isn't a movie about it, it didn't happen...

He's right, theres that whole passage about Moses slaughtering a bunch of people because god told him to. Theres also that whole thing where Saul was told to slaugter an entire people. And of course he's probably never heard of the Jews in active terrorism during the Macedonian and Roman empires.

Draconicopia;13014524']Here are some verses in the Qur'an that tell Muslims to go and kill anyone who is not a Muslim
The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter; [Qur'an 5:33]


Oh, how brilliant. Of course, let's look at Qur'an 5:32:


“…if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people.”

Huh. Well what do you know. It says to only kill those who are murderers, or basically bring havoc. I mean, it's not like there are a lot of States in the US that do the same(Such as Texas). Of course not.

As well, it speaks of saving lives, without specifying at all a religion.


But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. [Qur'an 9:5]


Quran 9:4 reads:

"If the idol worshipers sign a peace treaty with you, and do not violate it, nor band together with others against you, you shall fulfill your treaty with them until the expiration date. GOD loves the righteous."

Quran 9:6 reads:

"If one of the idol worshipers sought safe passage with you, you shall grant him safe passage, so that he can hear the word of GOD, then send him back to his place of security. That is because they are people who do not know."

To put it in context.


So from there own book it says that they need to kill anyone who does not believe what they do. This is not from them its from the place they get there beliefs. How can you say they are peaceful, when there holy book tells them to slay the pagans?

No, it doesn't say that. It says to not attack unless attacked, and if others strive for peace, accept that peace. Let's look at Quran 5:2 :

"Do not let your hatred of a people incite you to aggression."

So, taking selected quotes from the Quran, and using them out of context, is not good mojo. Infact, it is down right bigotry, hatred, blind-sightedness, and foolishness. Unfortunately, there are so many people like you that it is absolutely disgusting. If I wish, I could take selected quotes from the Holy Bible and claim that Christianity is violent because the Bible tells them to kill people.

Bible says the same thing, right?


Not that I'm doubting you but do you have a specific passage where it says to fight and kill those who would not follow their religion?

Not that I'm doubting you but do you have a specific passage where it says to fight and kill those who would not follow their religion?

Well, all of Deuteronomy 13 pretty much. Admittedly that is specifically about those who live under occupation by Jews, or those who dare suggest there might ba another God.

Meh, whatever, he is still a racist douchebag.

Racism is a little too much, he isn't targeting a specific people, he's targeting a religion.

Well, all of Deuteronomy 13 pretty much. Admittedly that is specifically about those who live under occupation by Jews, or those who dare suggest there might ba another God.

Actually it never says there aren't other gods, it just says that you shouldn't worship them.

Actually it never says there aren't other gods, it just says that you shouldn't worship them.

Or even mention them. Someone who discusses a dream with another god in it, for example. Or someone who gives testament (or even miracles) that suggests another faith.

(Interestingly, Jesus could be strongly argued to be just such a false prophet).

To 'whisper' of other gods is to invite death.

Or even mention them. Someone who discusses a dream with another god in it, for example. Or someone who gives testament (or even miracles) that suggests another faith.

(Interestingly, Jesus could be strongly argued to be just such a false prophet).

To 'whisper' of other gods is to invite death.

Don't forget to stone your disobedient children at the city's gates... (Old Testament parenting technique)...

Of course cause all christians in the world have never had to suffer through persecution of their religion or be in physical torture because of their beliefs. I mean even though its the largest religiion in the world, all of the christians are merely located in nice western suburban homes and happen to all be of the WASP variety.

The last time Christians were seriously persecuted en masse, the Roman Empire was still around.

No, the statement about "majority" is true. The 90% is an exaggeration, and incorrect.

But it still stands - and proven by link - the majority of terrorism acts around the world are caused by militant Muslims.

Considering that Muslims are not a race, it's hard to say I'm racist.

The people in Chechnya are not the same race as the people in Malaysia, nor the same race as the people in Saudi Arabia.


However I'd wager many of those acts are not viewed by everyone as "terrorism" but legitimate acts of resistance........

The last time Christians were seriously persecuted en masse, the Roman Empire was still around.

That and Christians persecuting other Christians

That and Christians persecuting other Christians

That's a natural consequence of any particular religion gaining as monopoly on worshippers. You start getting sectarian strife over whose way of believing in t3h g@wd is the most proper way.

Look at Shiites and Sunnis blasting the shit out of each other in Iraq when they're not blasting the shit out of Coalition forces.

Look at Northern Ireland historically.

Hell, you can even look in Israel and see all the ultra-orthodox Jews and everyone else bickering over whose way to revere God is the One True Way.

-----

But never since the days of the Roman Empire have Christians been persecuted on a massive or even global scale by any other religion.

The last time Christians were seriously persecuted en masse, the Roman Empire was still around.

You've never heard of third world persecution of christians? :rolleyes:

However I'd wager many of those acts are not viewed by everyone as "terrorism" but legitimate acts of resistance........

Not really, attacks in Indonesia are really just terroristic acts and are reported as such.

No, the statement about "majority" is true. The 90% is an exaggeration, and incorrect.

But it still stands - and proven by link - the majority of terrorism acts around the world are caused by militant Muslims.

The majority of terrorism acts that gain actual media coverage in the West are caused my militant Muslims. God forbid they should quash their ratings by dropping the minstrel show coverage of screaming Jihadis and showing normal, responsible and respectable Muslims.

Considering that Muslims are not a race, it's hard to say I'm racist.

The people in Chechnya are not the same race as the people in Malaysia, nor the same race as the people in Saudi Arabia.

Which flies in the face of your famous Muslim Sterilization Virus post. If Muslims aren't a race, why try to come up with something that only sterilizes Muslims? I didn't know there was a religion gene that reads "Christian, Jew, Muslim, Wiccan, etc etc."

Unless of course you meant to come up with a virus that sterilizes Arabs, Southeast Asians and any other ethnicity that's predominantly Muslim. And that of course, would be racist.

I never did get an answer.

When was the last time anyone hijacked an airplane?

Six years ago, wasn't it?

(Come on people, I am honestly curious here!)

Three sylables.Wik-i-pedia.

I think this started as a minor Muslim bashing thread. I'd like to see the actual pictures though. No one has mentioned that.

You've never heard of third world persecution of christians? :rolleyes:

You mean persecution in Third World shitholes where everyone except the corrupt leadership is so fucking poor that they have to turn to religious fanaticism as an escape and turn to indigenous Christians as scapegoats, often with said corrupt leadership's encouragement? Or the persecutions in said Third World shitholes of Evangelical proselytizing missionaries that often dangle relief aid and supplies over the locals' head in exchange for the proselytizing?

Never heard of Christians being seriously persecuted in First or even Second World nations.

I need to say this, but what a f*cking idiot the original poster is; has he even *SEEN* the art works? he is opening up his big yap before even finding out *WHAT* they are and *WHAT* the message is.

I mean, for f*ck sake, if your *WHOLE* religion is about worshipping idols like statues and people (rather than God) I think you've got much greater issues of faith at hand than whether or no insult has been passed.

Silly girl. Everyone knows if you insult Islam, there's all sorts of death, mayhem, threats, and throatcuttery that will occur. Best to just insult Christianity - that way, no one gets hurt.


So the gist is that Christians are so much better than evil, degenerate, barbarian Muslims because Christians don't get all in an uproar when their values are mocked or threatened...

but hide a Christian's oil under some dirty Muslim's sand and you get a couple of nuclear powered aircraft carriers with thousands of tonnes of high-explosive ordinance on your doorstep...

or try to hold a gay pride parade in Jerusalem (Christian, Jewish and Muslim) and you get pamphlets offering money for murder...

I think more damage is done by bombings and supporting corrupt regimes and incursions into foreign countries for their natural resources than is done by religiously fuelled riots, but even if you remove politics from the equation-- if you can disentangle them-- almost every religion gets used by someone, somewhere, to terrorise and oppress non-members and to justify one person's inhumanity towards another's. Were slaughtering South Americans or forcibly converting native Americans as Christians have done in the past, in the name of their deity, not on par with burning cars and smashing storefront windows?

Point is: no religion-- no groupthink claiming to be on "God's side"-- gets off smelling like a rose under the nose of history, but they all seem to hold themselves above reproach because, of course, they're on "God's side."

Tsk tsk tsk. You know any real Christian ignores the OT except for those lines about gays. ;)

Plus, forbidding idols eliminates the cross as a symbol, doesn't it?

Christians don't WORSHIP the cross. An idol is something you worship.

We Christians hold the cross very dear to us because it was on that cross that our Savior Jesus Christ died, and He died in our place, paying our sin debt for us, because we couldn't pay it ourselves.

Yes, the cross means a lot to us Christians, but we DON'T WORSHIP it; we worship the Man Who died on it... and rose from the dead three days later.

Three sylables.Wik-i-pedia.

I think this started as a minor Muslim bashing thread. I'd like to see the actual pictures though. No one has mentioned that.

Wikipedia is five syllables, not three: Wik-i-pe-di-a.

Or you could prononce it with four: Wik-i-pe-dia.

So the gist is that Christians are so much better than evil, degenerate, barbarian Muslims because Christians don't get all in an uproar when their values are mocked or threatened...

but hide a Christian's oil under some dirty Muslim's sand and you get a couple of nuclear powered aircraft carriers with thousands of tonnes of high-explosive ordinance on your doorstep...

or try to hold a gay pride parade in Jerusalem (Christian, Jewish and Muslim) and you get pamphlets offering money for murder...

I think more damage is done by bombings and supporting corrupt regimes and incursions into foreign countries for their natural resources than is done by religiously fuelled riots, but even if you remove politics from the equation-- if you can disentangle them-- almost every religion gets used by someone, somewhere, to terrorise and oppress non-members and to justify one person's inhumanity towards another's. Were slaughtering South Americans or forcibly converting native Americans as Christians have done in the past, in the name of their deity, not on par with burning cars and smashing storefront windows?

Point is: no religion-- no groupthink claiming to be on "God's side"-- gets off smelling like a rose under the nose of history, but they all seem to hold themselves above reproach because, of course, they're on "God's side."

I think you have Christianity confused with the Roman Catholic Church. The Roman Catholic Church has slaughtered many people throughout history, but Christians who actually believe the Bible do not practice such things. In fact, Bible-believing Christians, given various names at various points in history, e.g. "Donatists", "Anabaptists", and "Waldenses", have been among groups persecuted throughout history by the Roman Catholic Church.

And Bible-believing Christians ARE more tolerant in matters of religious difference than orthodox Muslims. I think this thread has pretty well demonstrated that.

Three sylables.Wik-i-pedia.

I think this started as a minor Muslim bashing thread. I'd like to see the actual pictures though. No one has mentioned that.

Christians get plenty of bashing from the media; I think it's about time we stopped "tiptoeing through the tulips" or "walking on eggshells" about Islam, and it's time Muslims learned to put up with it like Christians have to.

After all, Christians don't go around killing Muslims for not receiving Jesus as their personal Savior, or for calling God "Allah", or for insisting God never had a son when the Bible plainly says He DID, etc.

That and Christians persecuting other Christians

What you're thinking of is actually the Roman Catholic Church persecuting Bible-believers, because the RCC wanted people to follow IT instead of the Bible.

You can't insult Muhammad, you can't insult Jesus.

Actually, people DO insult Jesus all the time by thinking that they are more righteous than He is, and consequently, that they do not need to trust Him as their personal Savior.

When you don't accept Jesus as your personal Savior, you are actually looking into the face of God and saying, "I am better than you are; I don't need your righteousness to get out of going to hell."

They pit their own righteousness against God's righteousness, and when you do that, you go to hell, because you have basically insulted God by saying, "I don't want your 'free gift'; I'm good enough without it".

THAT is why people go to hell. It is NOT a sin of commission (something you do that you ought NOT do), such as lying, stealing, murder, adultery, etc. It is a sin of OMISSION (something you SHOULD do but DON'T), more specifically, not turning to Jesus and receiving Him as your personal Savior instead of trying to work your way into heaven.

Actually, people DO insult Jesus all the time by thinking that they are more righteous than He is, and consequently, that they do not need to trust Him as their personal Savior.

When you don't accept Jesus as your personal Savior, you are actually looking into the face of God and saying, "I am better than you are; I don't need your righteousness to get out of going to hell."

They pit their own righteousness against God's righteousness, and when you do that, you go to hell, because you have basically insulted God by saying, "I don't want your 'free gift'; I'm good enough without it".

THAT is why people go to hell. It is NOT a sin of commission (something you do that you ought NOT do), such as lying, stealing, murder, adultery, etc. It is a sin of OMISSION (something you SHOULD do but DON'T), more specifically, not turning to Jesus and receiving Him as your personal Savior instead of trying to work your way into heaven.

Actually No, I actually say 'I know you don't exist, and I am glad their is no omnipotent dictator in the heavens monitoring our every action and thought'.

Actually No, I actually say 'I know you don't exist, and I am glad their is no omnipotent dictator in the heavens monitoring our every action and thought'.

Really? How do you KNOW there is no "omnipotent dictator" in the heavens? Can you prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that God does not exist? Did you ever stop to consider that He just MIGHT exist after all? I guess you'll find out "the hard way" when you die.

Really? How do you KNOW there is no "omnipotent dictator" in the heavens? Can you prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that God does not exist? Did you ever stop to consider that He just MIGHT exist after all? I guess you'll find out "the hard way" when you die.
Well I guess it is a hope more than anything, I know power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Really? How do you KNOW there is no "omnipotent dictator" in the heavens? Can you prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that God does not exist? Did you ever stop to consider that He just MIGHT exist after all? I guess you'll find out "the hard way" when you die.

Wow, first the standard "Catholics aren't REAL Christians" nonsense, and then smug little jibes about how other posters are going to hell. You're a real charmer, aren't you? :rolleyes:

all religion should be abolished. no exceptions. imo.

The Swedish PM is smrater than you are
http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/happy081.gif

See? There's no reason for you to post silly youTube links - you just keep posting your regular stuff. There's enough humour in that :D
What has that got to do with his point?
Apparently nothing at all.

Really? How do you KNOW there is no "omnipotent dictator" in the heavens? Can you prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that God does not exist? Did you ever stop to consider that He just MIGHT exist after all? I guess you'll find out "the hard way" when you die.

like I would give a shit after I'm dead, that's the point, death. I'd leave a ugly worm-ridden corpse 6 feet (or some other length) under, and that's about it. No mystical, mythical omnipotent dictator, stands before like an old-fashioned bell boy in those old elevators with a lever saying: "lets see goin' UP or DOWN?" like hell! (pun freaking intended!)

After all, Christians don't go around killing Muslims for not receiving Jesus as their personal Savior, or for calling God "Allah", or for insisting God never had a son when the Bible plainly says He DID, etc.

Really? Really weally willy?

Are you sure about this?

Come on, are you absolutely sure?

Yes?

Alright.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Liberation_Front_of_Tripura

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedomites

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_of_God

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27s_Resistance_Army

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God%27s_Army_%28revolutionary_group%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagaland_Rebels

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Priesthood

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Democratic_Front_of_Bodoland

And the list goes on and on and on and on and on.

And on.

And on.

And on.

So yes, there are plenty of Christians out there willing to kill others of other religions simply because they are of another religion(As well as other reasons).

Zing, zang, zoom, I win.

Well, yes, it's fine because when you insult Christian religion in public by making gratuitously offensive art, no one riots, planes aren't hijacked, and Christian ministers don't exhort screaming crowds of fanatics numbering in the millions to riot and rampage.



Silly girl. Everyone knows if you insult Islam, there's all sorts of death, mayhem, threats, and throatcuttery that will occur. Best to just insult Christianity - that way, no one gets hurt.

STFU...now...

And look at the post above me...It's win.

EDIT: Also the KKK... They promote white supremacy, antisemitism, anti-Catholicism, racism, homophobia, anti-communism and nativism

EDIT: Also the KKK... They promote white supremacy, antisemitism, anti-Catholicism, racism, homophobia, anti-communism and nativism

Brace for the incoming doublethink reply: "They're just a small minority and they're not really Christians... unlike those damn dirty Jihadis who happen to represent Muslims as a whole."

Actually, people DO insult Jesus all the time by thinking that they are more righteous than He is, and consequently, that they do not need to trust Him as their personal Savior.

Whoa, now. That would certainly piss him off, what with being so thin-skinned and all.
What about that whole seven deadly sins and all, with pride and vanity and such?

Hey, i'm thinking even jesus/horus/mithra said something about specifically that.
Instead of paraphrasing, or even being so presumptuous as to speak FOR "him", perhaps you'll provide some material?

Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.

Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.

Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, all evil speakings,

Use hospitality one to another without grudging.

Oh yeah, this might be important ...:

Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

and ...

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

Really? How do you KNOW there is no "omnipotent dictator" in the heavens? Can you prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that God does not exist? Did you ever stop to consider that He just MIGHT exist after all? I guess you'll find out "the hard way" when you die.Or not, since being dead means you really don't do a whole fuckload lot of *anything* except feed the mites & the smaller creatures of god's wonder.
:rolleyes:

Psh, everyone knows that there's no such thing as a Christian terrorist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism) because Christians are all such sane, loving people.

Bugger it, I missed the rioting again.

Christian fundamentalism has not disappeared, it has just evolved, these days it tries to institutionalize itself into mainstream politics etc, of course it's not going to riot and show itself as the bigoted monster it truly is, it's smarter than that. It will bide it's time in the background, playing on populist notions, hiding in conservative and liberal organizations, planting the seeds subtly, influencing policies and 'morals' with it's intolerant regressive agenda. Of course it will not blow up buildings, kidnap people and behead them, stone women, that's not that say that they wouldn't, they of course would, just that unlike Islamists they have wised up to the more subtle ways of pushing religious backwardism, the pen is mightier than the sword etc.

A perfect example of this in the US, the religious regressivists in the GOP and wider conservative movement of course know that the naked truth of their views is profoundly ugly and abhorrent to any post-Enlightened modern state of information. In the US in particular they have made massive gains, to the extent that backward views are viewed as virtuous, and scientific objective people (atheists etc) are viewed with suspicion.

Psh, everyone knows that there's no such thing as a Christian terrorist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism) because Christians are all such sane loving people.

*coughs*

I think you have Christianity confused with the Roman Catholic Church. The Roman Catholic Church has slaughtered many people throughout history, but Christians who actually believe the Bible do not practice such things. In fact, Bible-believing Christians, given various names at various points in history, e.g. "Donatists", "Anabaptists", and "Waldenses", have been among groups persecuted throughout history by the Roman Catholic Church.

And Bible-believing Christians ARE more tolerant in matters of religious difference than orthodox Muslims. I think this thread has pretty well demonstrated that.

Interesting how you ignore the inter demoniational revivalry; heck, one group in Switzerland drowned a followed who dared question the idea of baptism at birth.

If you want to start an anti-Catholic thread, may I suggest you look at the sins of your own movement out of protestant reformation.

There are no 'true christians'; Catholics came first, then Orthodox and Catholic split (great schicism), then the protestant split from the Catholic church claiming Catholicism had become corrupted and need to be 'reformed'.

Oh, and dipshit, Catholic means universal, just because they don't use Christian, doesn't mean they're not Christian.

Christian fundamentalism has not disappeared, it has just evolved, these days it tries to institutionalize itself into mainstream politics etc, of course it's not going to riot and show itself as the bigoted monster it truly is, it's smarter than that. It will bide it's time in the background, playing on populist notions, hiding in conservative and liberal organizations, planting the seeds subtly, influencing policies and 'morals' with it's intolerant regressive agenda. Of course it will not blow up buildings, kidnap people and behead them, stone women, that's not that say that they wouldn't, they of course would, just that unlike Islamists they have wised up to the more subtle ways of pushing religious backwardism, the pen is mightier than the sword etc.

A perfect example of this in the US, the religious regressivists in the GOP and wider conservative movement of course know that the naked truth of their views is profoundly ugly and abhorrent to any post-Enlightened modern state of information. In the US in particular they have made massive gains, to the extent that backward views are viewed as virtuous, and scientific objective people (atheists etc) are viewed with suspicion.

I like how you generalise all Christians into having the same agenda, and all scientific objective people as being atheists.

Actually I don't like that, since it is insanely irrational.

And Bible-believing Christians ARE more tolerant in matters of religious difference than orthodox Muslims. I think this thread has pretty well demonstrated that.

I'm not sure exactly what your definitions are, but I've yet to see any significant difference between extreme groups like Christian Reconstructionists and Islamic Wahhabists.

Some people has always used religion as an excuse to kill the neighbour and steal his lawnmower.It doesn`t matter which religion your talking about,there are whackos on every side.Historically,the Christians has actually been worst.
That if you don`t count communism as a religion...

I'm not sure exactly what your definitions are, but I've yet to see any significant difference between extreme groups like Christian Reconstructionists and Islamic Wahhabists.

He'll likely bring up how no Christian Reconstructionist has been caught doing anything violent like rioting or beheading people in the western media. That's always a popular yardstick for "highlighting Muslim savagery," the old "Christians don't behead people" defense.

Bugger it, I missed the rioting again.

yep... I overslept... what's your excuse?

yep... I overslept... what's your excuse?

Community service?

I like how you generalise all Christians into having the same agenda, and all scientific objective people as being atheists.

Actually I don't like that, since it is insanely irrational.

Sorry, but maybe 500 years ago I would have forgiven someone for literally believing a religion, but these days I would have to say bluntly that kind of thinking holds no weight, nor should it be given respect, at least not in a post-Enlightenment scientific modern world. Maybe you and others (even scientists) can live with such massive contradiction in your thinking, but I cannot.

Sorry, but maybe 500 years ago I would have forgiven someone for literally believing a religion, but these days I would have to say bluntly that kind of thinking holds no weight, nor should it be given respect, at least not in a post-Enlightenment scientific modern world. Maybe you and others (even scientists) can live with such massive contradiction in your thinking, but I cannot.

I am not religious, I am an atheist. But whether Christianity has any credibility or not is irrelevant to the point you made, where you decided that all Christians have the same agenda. Completely against post-Enlightenment logic, don't you think?

Just as long as the FSM isn't being mocked, I see no problem with mocking all the false Gods and Goddesses in the world.

He'll likely bring up how no Christian Reconstructionist has been caught doing anything violent like rioting or beheading people in the western media. That's always a popular yardstick for "highlighting Muslim savagery," the old "Christians don't behead people" defense.

I suspect he'll likely bring up nothing at all, seeing as he seems like the sort to pop into a thread, make ridiculously inflammatory comments, and leave. (Gee, isn't there a name for posters like that? Hmmm...)