NationStates Jolt Archive

I Just read this. Its rather decent.


http://www.creators.com/opinion/robert-scheer/the-president-we-were-warned-about.html
George W. Bush is the imperial president that James Madison and other founders of this great republic warned us about. He lied the nation into precisely the "foreign entanglements" that George Washington feared would destroy our experiment in representative government, and he has championed a spurious notion of security over individual liberty, thus eschewing the alarms of Thomas Jefferson as to the deprivation of the inalienable rights of free citizens. But most important, he has used the sledgehammer of war to obliterate the separation of powers that James Madison enshrined in the U.S. Constitution.

With the "war on terror," Bush has asserted the right of the president to wage war anywhere and for any length of time, at his whim, because the "terrorists" will always provide a convenient shadowy target. That's just the "continual warfare" that Madison warned of in justifying the primary role of Congress in initiating and continuing to finance a war — the very issue now at stake in Bush's battle with Congress.

In his "Political Observations," written years before he had served as fourth president of the United States, Madison went on to underscore the dangers of an imperial presidency bloated by war fever.

"In war," Madison wrote in 1795, at a time when the young republic still faced its share of dangerous enemies, "the discretionary power of the executive is extended ... and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people."

How remarkably prescient of Madison to anticipate the specter of our current King George, imperiously undermining Congress' attempts to end the Iraq war. When the prime author of the U.S. Constitution explained why that document grants Congress — not the president — the exclusive power to declare and fund wars, Madison wrote, "The delegation of such powers (to the president) would have struck, not only at the fabric of our Constitution, but at the foundation of all well organized and well checked governments."

Because "no nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare," Madison urged that the constitutional separation of powers he had codified be respected. "The Constitution expressly and exclusively vests in the Legislature the power of declaring a state of war ...
the power of raising armies," he wrote. "The separation of the power of raising armies from the power of commanding them is intended to prevent the raising of armies for the sake of commanding them."

That last sentence perfectly describes the threat of what President Dwight Eisenhower would describe 165 years later as the "military-industrial complex," a permanent war economy feeding off a permanent state of insecurity. The collapse of the Soviet Union deprived the military profiteers and their cheerleaders in the government of a raison d'etre for the enormous war economy supposedly created in response to it.

Fortunately for them, Bush found in the 9-11 attack an excuse to make war even more profitable and longer lasting. The Iraq war, which the president's 9-11 commission concluded never had anything to do with the terrorist assault, nonetheless has transferred many hundreds of billions in taxpayer dollars into the military economy. And when Congress seeks to exercise its power to control the budget, this president asserts that this will not govern his conduct of the war.

There never was a congressional declaration of war to cover the invasion of Iraq. Instead, President Bush acted under his claimed power as commander in chief, which the Supreme Court has held does allow him to respond to a "state of war" against the United States. That proviso was clearly a reference to surprise attacks or sudden emergencies.

The problem is that the "state of war" in question here was an al-Qaida attack on the United States that had nothing whatsoever to do with Saddam Hussein's Iraq. Perhaps, to spare Congress the embarrassment of formally declaring war against a nation that had not attacked America, Bush settled for a loosely worded resolution supporting his use of military power if Iraq failed to comply with U.N. mandates.

This was justified by the White House as a means of strengthening the United Nations in holding Iraq accountable for its weapons of mass destruction arsenal, but as most of the world looked on in dismay, Bush invaded Iraq after U.N. inspectors on the ground discovered that Iraq had no WMD.

Bush betrayed Congress, which in turn betrayed the American people — just as Madison feared when he wrote, "Of all the enemies of public liberty, war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other


Will Americans ever wake up and smell the coffee? Or will it just sit here and rot away, as many of us fear? Furthermore, what must it take for the country to over throw illegal resolutions, such as giving the president unlimited force to fight whom he deems? Must we spill the blood of the tyrants in office, to get our point across? Must we renew freedom the hard way?How long will it take before we realize that small threats are not worth the sacrificing of our liberties? Will it take a police state to get it through our minds? People, we need to act now. Let Congress and the president know that we will not sit idly by, as they destroy our nation. Liberal and conservative need to join hand and hand and march on Washington, until every last crooked officials steps down, and if they don't, then we force them out. This OUR country. They will not ruin OUR home and destroy OUR constitution, all for the profit of weapons manufacturers. I fear if we do not act now, 20 years from now, people will look back on us and wonder why we sat by, as crooks raped our constitution, our freedom.

Whats worse is that I fear Rudy Giuliani and Hillary Clinton (the front runner in the primaries for their party) will be Bush clones, thus fucking our country even more.

I Just read this. Its rather decent.


http://www.creators.com/opinion/robert-scheer/the-president-we-were-warned-about.html



Will Americans ever wake up and smell the coffee? Or will it just sit here and rot away, as many of us fear? Furthermore, what must it take for the country to over throw illegal resolutions, such as giving the president unlimited force to fight whom he deems? Must we spill the blood of the tyrants in office, to get our point across? Must we renew freedom the hard way?How long will it take before we realize that small threats are not worth the sacrificing of our liberties? Will it take a police state to get it through our minds? People, we need to act now. Let Congress and the president know that we will not sit idly by, as they destroy our nation. Liberal and conservative need to join hand and hand and march on Washington, until every last crooked officials steps down, and if they don't, then we force them out. This OUR country. They will not ruin OUR home and destroy OUR constitution, all for the profit of weapons manufacturers. I fear if we do not act now, 20 years from now, people will look back on us and wonder why we sat by, as crooks raped our constitution, our freedom.
Zilam FTW!

Many, many of us already knew.
:(

Doesn't surprise me at all. From what I've seen in life, problems tend not to change.

Which is why things spoken in the 80's, the 60's, the 20's, the 1900's, the late 1700's, and perhaps even the 13 and 1400's still remain relevant today.

Means change, but problems remain the same.

Whats worse is that I fear Rudy Giuliani and Hillary Clinton (the front runner in the primaries for their party) will be Bush clones, thus fucking our country even more.

Yes, but Bush paved the way. He set precedent. People try to dismiss it as Bush-hatred, but the fact is he has expanded the power of the president and I'll be damned if anyone after him is going to just give that up. Especially when he'll get the rap.

Whats worse is that I fear Rudy Giuliani and Hillary Clinton (the front runner in the primaries for their party) will be Bush clones, thus fucking our country even more.

Right on. Which is why we need to enact more laws about equal air time for candidates. I posted a video about a month ago, which discussed how the news stations focus only on the 'popular' candidates. The candidates that might actually be able to change things, are far too often left out of the debates and such. Furthermore, we need to stray away from the two parties we have now. They focus only on a few issues, and they somehow represent all of American politics. So its either you are with idiots, or assholes. If we make an honest effort we can stand up against the Hillarys and Rudys of this age and time, and focus on strong leaders, not popular politicians.

Yes, but Bush paved the way. He set precedent. People try to dismiss it as Bush-hatred, but the fact is he has expanded the power of the president and I'll be damned if anyone after him is going to just give that up. Especially when he'll get the rap.

That is true, Bush did pave the way, and I don't like how he expanded the government's power either, as a Libertarian I am against that. That is why I support Ron Paul, because I know that he would cut the Government's size down by a lot. Unfortunately it seems like people in this country are apathetic to what their government is doing to their personal liberties. Why should they worry when they are content with life, they got TV, computer, internet, sport teams, etc. The general population is pacified.

The general population is pacified.

Keep America rolling.
Here's $300 bucks.

Keep America rolling.
Here's $300 bucks.

I won't settle for less than three fiddy.

I won't settle for less than three fiddy.

Well, how'd you file and how'd you vote? :p

Keep America rolling.
Here's $300 bucks.

$400!

Oh and Zilam, I really would support equal air time for all candidates and I would love to break this two party system that we have, but the reason none of the Third Parties have ever come into major play before is that the Republican and Democrats has passed several laws barring them from even getting their foot in the door. Why did they do this, power, plain and simple. At the end of the day Republican = Democrat.

Well, how'd you file and how'd you vote? :p

I'd file in the nude, and vote Brevious all the way!

realize, of course, that the article could fit any President in office during times of conflict.

Vietnam is also missing a Declaration of War.

and one's missing for the Korea war.

add to that the trampling of rights during Vietnam, Korea and WWII...

looks like the President we were warned about already came and left. infact, he keeps coming back will still keep coming back.

Bush did NOT pave the way, but he's just walking a path that severa others walked.

I'd file in the nude, and vote Brevious all the way!
:eek:
Only if i can prop Straughn's corpse for VeeP.
:p
And when you say, "file", are you thinking the same thing i was, or something more like "whittling"?

realize, of course, that the article could fit any President in office during times of conflict.

Vietnam is also missing a Declaration of War.

and one's missing for the Korea war.

add to that the trampling of rights during Vietnam, Korea and WWII...

looks like the President we were warned about already came and left. infact, he keeps coming back will still keep coming back.

Bush did NOT pave the way, but he's just walking a path that severa others walked.

Oh, I would agree with Vietnam and Korea, but they were more like proto fascist experiments. What Shrubya has done is like taking the results of the past experiments, and then decided to go ahead full throttle, with out looking back. He has passed the bar up so much, that it will take a lot to get back on the other side. So much so, that our next few presidents won't have the will or spine to change things.

Bush did NOT pave the way, but he's just walking a path that severa others walked.

Actually, he slid into that outfit a might TOO fucking perfect.

Same qualities attributed to Antichrist :p

:eek:
Only if i can prop Straughn's corpse for VeeP.
:p
And when you say, "file", are you thinking the same thing i was, or something more like "whittling"?

Filing as in filing party preference and such? Maybe I am just too silly to understand.

I may move to Canada when I get out of Grad School, they can't be as messed up as the US is, right?

I may move to Canada when I get out of Grad School, they can't be as messed up as the US is, right?

let us know.

btw... will you be getting rid of your US citizenship?

Filing as in filing party preference and such? Maybe I am just too silly to understand.

That too, but i kinda meant taxes. :)

Actually, he slid into that outfit a might TOO fucking perfect.

Same qualities attributed to Antichrist :pDunno. some of the things the past Presidents did would be considered worse than what President Bush has done.

It's all a matter of perspective. We are living through these events so it does seem like the worse. The real telling is what the people learns from these events and what they do afterwards.

Oh, I would agree with Vietnam and Korea, but they were more like proto fascist experiments. What Shrubya has done is like taking the results of the past experiments, and then decided to go ahead full throttle, with out looking back. He has passed the bar up so much, that it will take a lot to get back on the other side. So much so, that our next few presidents won't have the will or spine to change things.

nah, it only looks that way. But you gotta admit. He revealed so much that we (the American People) took for granted.

And if the Next Few Presidents don't have the spine nor the will to change things, then it's not President Bush Jr.'s fault. but either the President for lying to the people, or the people voting in a weak/incompetent President.

that is why it's so important to listen what these candidates say. I won't vote for anyone who is only mentioning 'Iraq' for that person is only playing the crowd. the less they cover other issues, the less my desire to vote for them.

On a side note to this....the people of America are too fat and lazy to go outside let alone do much else. Maybe we need a Nanny state here. What the hell else are the fat ass people going to do? I'd love to see the day that all those people died.

On a side note to this....the people of America are too fat and lazy to go outside let alone do much else. Maybe we need a Nanny state here. What the hell else are the fat ass people going to do? I'd love to see the day that all those people died.

God...the day the USA becomes a Nanny state is the day that I tear up my US citizenship and lay down stakes in another country.

Dunno. some of the things the past Presidents did would be considered worse than what President Bush has done.
That depends on who you listen to, apparently.

It's all a matter of perspective. We are living through these events so it does seem like the worse. The real telling is what the people learns from these events and what they do afterwards.

That's occurred to me several times for several years, most often after each thing Bush does that outdoes the last thing.

It's one whole package of fucked up, delusional people forcing something upon the populace that doesn't belong there. Period.

It's one whole package of fucked up, delusional people forcing something upon the populace that doesn't belong there. Period.

and who determins what belongs or what doesn't belong there? Here's a hint. those fucked up delusional people were voted in by other fucked up, delusional people.

often times, they were voted in not because of their qualifications, but because of their ability to smooze the public.

and who determins what belongs or what doesn't belong there? Here's a hint. those fucked up delusional people were voted in by other fucked up, delusional people.Here's a hint.
The Constitution, for the most part, determines what does or doesn't belong there, thankfully.


often times, they were voted in not because of their qualifications, but because of their ability to smooze the public.

Yeah, it was obviously charisma, buzz and collusion that got Bush the job, since it sure-as-fuck wasn't his career track record.

Hillary will be a Bush clone on the same day that the pope becomes an atheist.

Here's a hint.
The Constitution, for the most part, determines what does or doesn't belong there, thankfully.and how many times has the Constitution been Amended?

Yeah, it was obviously charisma, buzz and collusion that got Bush the job, since it sure-as-fuck wasn't his career track record. See? Glad you agree with me. :p

and how many times has the Constitution been Amended?Surely you wouldn't propose that Bush's actions are appreciable to amendments to the Constitution?


See? Glad you agree with me. :pI usually don't disagree with you much anyway. :)

I won't settle for less than three fiddy.

Damn it woman I told you not to give him three fiddy!

Surely you wouldn't propose that Bush's actions are appreciable to amendments to the Constitution?
nope, just saying that the Constitution has been changed many times. some for the good, others for the dubious.

in other words, with the right or wrong people in power, the Constitution can be changed for either Good or Ill.

Must we renew freedom the hard way?

The price of continued freedom is eternal vigilance against those who would take it. In case you hadn't noticed, the average American public is too secure in their couches and American Idol to be bothered with vigilance.

And if the Next Few Presidents don't have the spine nor the will to change things, then it's not President Bush Jr.'s fault. but either the President for lying to the people, or the people voting in a weak/incompetent President.


H. L. Mencken predicted it back in 1920:

The larger the mob, the harder the test. In small areas, before small electorates, a first-rate man occasionally fights his way through, carrying even the mob with him by force of his personality. But when the field is nationwide, and the fight must be waged chiefly at second and third hand, and the force of personality cannot so readily make itself felt, then all the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most easily adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum.

The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.

Here's a hint.
The Constitution, for the most part, determines what does or doesn't belong there, thankfully.



Yeah, it was obviously charisma, buzz and collusion that got Bush the job, since it sure-as-fuck wasn't his career track record.


The Constitution, as we were taught in school, doesn`t exist anymore.

The Constitution, as we were taught in school, doesn`t exist anymore.

Did some one eat it?

The Constitution, as we were taught in school, doesn`t exist anymore.

At least offer some examples for your claim....

The Constitution, as we were taught in school, doesn`t exist anymore.

And to some, it's even summated as "just a goddamn piece of paper".
:(

Sad note in Zi's thread.

H. L. Mencken predicted it back in 1920:

The larger the mob, the harder the test. In small areas, before small electorates, a first-rate man occasionally fights his way through, carrying even the mob with him by force of his personality. But when the field is nationwide, and the fight must be waged chiefly at second and third hand, and the force of personality cannot so readily make itself felt, then all the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most easily adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum.

The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
which supports my saying it's the people's fault. :p

And to some, it's even summated as "just a goddamn piece of paper".
:(

Sad note in Zi's thread.

which shows how much history they learned. it's acutally parchment... not paper. :p

which shows how much history they learned. it's acutally parchment... not paper. :p

Along with history, they seemed to miss a bit of geography, like "East Timor" ...

and the parchment ... sheesh is it irony or what that he would so disdain something people keep advocating can be smoked! :p

God...the day the USA becomes a Nanny state is the day that I tear up my US citizenship and lay down stakes in another country.

There is certainly enough reason for the USA to become a Nanny state, as was pointed out, the people are becoming too fat and lazy. As much as I hate the thought of nanny state, how do propose that we solve these problems without

a - causing a massive outcry from the populace at large and
b - causing too much upheaval

Roosevelt, Johnson and Bush I would also fit into that category.

No I'm not saying we were wrong for entering WW2. But the way the people were sold into it (9-11 anyone? Ahh ofcourse not. Not on THIS forum! It was teh ebil muslim terrorist's's's) was. If anyone still believes the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor for 'war' reasons .. well then nevermind.

Roosevelt, Johnson and Bush I would also fit into that category.

No I'm not saying we were wrong for entering WW2. But the way the people were sold into it (9-11 anyone? Ahh ofcourse not. Not on THIS forum! It was teh ebil muslim terrorist's's's) was. If anyone still believes the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor for 'war' reasons .. well then nevermind.

Na, go with it!!!

Na, go with it!!!

Srsly? I doubt it.

It's there .. for your pleasurable fingering tho.

If anyone still believes the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor for 'war' reasons .. well then nevermind.

Erm...I'm curious - what were the reasons?

Will Americans ever wake up and smell the coffee? Or will it just sit here and rot away, as many of us fear? Furthermore, what must it take for the country to over throw illegal resolutions, such as giving the president unlimited force to fight whom he deems? Must we spill the blood of the tyrants in office, to get our point across? Must we renew freedom the hard way?How long will it take before we realize that small threats are not worth the sacrificing of our liberties? Will it take a police state to get it through our minds? People, we need to act now. Let Congress and the president know that we will not sit idly by, as they destroy our nation. Liberal and conservative need to join hand and hand and march on Washington, until every last crooked officials steps down, and if they don't, then we force them out. This OUR country. They will not ruin OUR home and destroy OUR constitution, all for the profit of weapons manufacturers. I fear if we do not act now, 20 years from now, people will look back on us and wonder why we sat by, as crooks raped our constitution, our freedom.

Considering that they managed to use the "red menace" to justify the support wanton slaughter for decades and got away with it, I would not be optimistic. One may see a return to 'Imperialism by proxy' but not much else in the way of reform.

Giullanni would strike me as being as potentially bad as Bush, btw. The Hill and Bill show might be rather more restrained.

Perhaps the countries of the European Union and/or United Nations should consider the invasion of the rogue United States of America in order to restore international peace and security, stop the proliferation of biological, chemical and nuclear weapons, and most importantly reinstate American democracy?

You can't deny that there's some precedent. :D

Dunno. some of the things the past Presidents did would be considered worse than what President Bush has done.
I do believe that Bush Junyah has done far more harm to America than any previous President. Historians will not be kind!!

Perhaps the countries of the European Union and/or United Nations should consider the invasion of the rogue United States of America in order to restore international peace and security, stop the proliferation of biological, chemical and nuclear weapons, and most importantly reinstate American democracy?

You can't deny that there's some precedent. :D

*Empire music in the background*

Now you understand why we have all those nukes!

I Just read this. Its rather decent.


http://www.creators.com/opinion/robert-scheer/the-president-we-were-warned-about.html



Will Americans ever wake up and smell the coffee? Or will it just sit here and rot away, as many of us fear? Furthermore, what must it take for the country to over throw illegal resolutions, such as giving the president unlimited force to fight whom he deems? Must we spill the blood of the tyrants in office, to get our point across? Must we renew freedom the hard way?How long will it take before we realize that small threats are not worth the sacrificing of our liberties? Will it take a police state to get it through our minds? People, we need to act now. Let Congress and the president know that we will not sit idly by, as they destroy our nation. Liberal and conservative need to join hand and hand and march on Washington, until every last crooked officials steps down, and if they don't, then we force them out. This OUR country. They will not ruin OUR home and destroy OUR constitution, all for the profit of weapons manufacturers. I fear if we do not act now, 20 years from now, people will look back on us and wonder why we sat by, as crooks raped our constitution, our freedom.

Nobody cares. A lot Americans are apathetic (and pathetic too, but I digress) But I gotta agree, and I'm sure most of my family does too. National security is a cheap, overused, excuse for despotism.