NationStates Jolt Archive

I've been hearing a few people say humans killing humans is unnatural.

It's certainly unpleasant. I for one would prefer to avoid it. But unnatural? I'd say it's quite natural personally.

I've been hearing a few people say humans killing humans is unnatural.

It's certainly unpleasant. I for one would prefer to avoid it. But unnatural? I'd say it's quite natural personally.

who and where are these people saying this?

who and where are these people saying this?

My Granddad for one, and some famous actor also said it, although I forget his or her name.

It is natural.

Is anyone else seeing a fux'd jolt?

Its certainly unhealthy. But unnatural? I suppose war is just a freak accident.

Killing I believe is very much a natural raw instinct in certain situations. As far as killing another person if someone tells me they enjoy it then that person to me has a mental disorder.

My Granddad for one, and some famous actor also said it, although I forget his or her name.
oh, nevermind then, thought it was someone significant. (Referring to the Actor, not your Granddad.)

Pointless vague terms such as natural/unnatural should be abolished from the english language. Ok well at least not used in debate.

Pointless vague terms such as natural/unnatural should be abolished from the english language. Ok well at least not used in debate.

They serve a descriptive purpose that people can understand. As far as a debate I would rarely classify threads on NSG as a legitimate debate.

oh, nevermind then, thought it was someone significant. (Referring to the Actor, not your Granddad.)

Rofl.

I am one of those ones that believe killing is unnatural for humans.

I am one of those ones that believe killing is unnatural for humans.

Do you mean humans killing other humans? Or are you going the whole spectrum which would include animals?

I am one of those ones that believe killing is unnatural for humans.

Killing ANYTHING, or just other humans?

Killing ANYTHING, or just other humans?

Do you mean humans killing other humans? Or are you going the whole spectrum which would include animals?


Oooh. Humans killing humans. Was this thread about something different?

Oooh. Humans killing humans. Was this thread about something different?

Yeah, was about helping out special needs kids and then you started on about killing. What the hell is wrong with you?:confused:

Oooh. Humans killing humans. Was this thread about something different?

So, killing cows is natural, killing plants is natural, killing bacteria is natural, but for some reason nature never intended humans to be killed?

So, killing cows is natural, killing plants is natural, killing bacteria is natural, but for some reason nature never intended humans to be killed?

Yep, because as humans we have a conscience, and we have evolved beyond the point of needless killing. (funny how some people still act like animals though, right?)

It's killing things and enjoying the act that would make it unnatural.

They serve a descriptive purpose that people can understand.

Whether something is natural or not is irrelevant in 99% of debate, putting actions in subjective categories like natural/unnatural does not change the moral worth of such action.

As far as a debate I would rarely classify threads on NSG as a legitimate debate.

What is your definition of legitimate debate?

Natural, yes. But natural =/= moral, ethical or acceptable. For some reason, way too many people confuse them and mistakenly assume what is natural is moral, and vice versa.

I dunno, I suppose it's kinda natural, I mean we're on the top of the food chain,... how else could we supply ourselves while the resources are rapidly (even with proper planning) diminishing meanwhile our numbers grow exponentially due to the advances of modern medicine and hygiene.

... probably the social darwinist in me spewing nonsense though.

I think that nature tends to favour death as a method of dealing with an imbalance in an environment. However, the fact that people are killing each other almost haphazardly in the present day suggests that there is something inherently counter to nature about the circumstances of the killers.

So, killing cows is natural, killing plants is natural, killing bacteria is natural, but for some reason nature never intended humans to be killed?

The question is humans killing other humans, not humans being killed, period. Nature didn't "intend" that humans are immortal. For that matter, nature doesn't "intend" anything.

Certainly, any species killing members of its own species tends to be rare in nature. Insects probably do it the most - ant colonies warring with other ant colonies of the same species. And then they eat the bodies.

But most primates don't kill members of their own species, except by accidents (i.e dominance duel that ends more violently than normal). Same with most mammals if my knowledge doesn't fail me. Or, infanticide, as with lions when taking over prides, or in early humans as a way to control population in times of scarce resources.

Generally, going crazy and killing another human for most reasons humans do it - i.e, devil made me do it, nigga jacked my shit, I felt like killing someone, I have a strange compelling reason to kill people, we're at war - isn't natural in any context. It's a sign of abnormality in the crazier instances, and sentience in general.

But most primates don't kill members of their own species, except by accidents (i.e dominance duel that ends more violently than normal). Same with most mammals if my knowledge doesn't fail me. Or, infanticide, as with lions when taking over prides, or in early humans as a way to control population in times of scarce resources.


I saw this show on NG (or was it Discovery) about primate cannibalism and sport killing (this troupe of baboons were singling out one of their member and decides to kill him/it, but first they tortured it by banging rocks on it's non vital parts like legs and arms, and then their troupe leader bashes a rock on it's head).

Pretty gruesome.

Yep, because as humans we have a conscience, and we have evolved beyond the point of needless killing. (funny how some people still act like animals though, right?)

A conscience can say plenty of unnatural things. Sex before marriage can trouble some consciences, that doesn't mean it's unnatural.

I'm a vegetarian. I consider it immoral to eat meat, but I don't claim it to be unnatural.

Morality does not equal nature.

I saw this show on NG (or was it Discovery) about primate cannibalism and sport killing (this troupe of baboons were singling out one of their member and decides to kill him/it, but first they tortured it by banging rocks on it's non vital parts like legs and arms, and then their troupe leader bashes a rock on it's head).

Pretty gruesome.

Wow, so that means torture is also natural. Incredible.

People killing people IS natural. People have hated people from other groups since the first person walked the earth. It's a way of ensuring our species survival during times of famine and drout. Fewer people eating means more food per living person. If anything, our apparent quest for immortality is unnatural. Our desire to destroy nature is unnatural.

Our resources can't sustain several billion people forever and few people get that. Our only true rights are to think, talk, and die. I know there are billions of smaller animals, but smaller animals need fewer resources and less food. We are a species known for surviving just about anywhere above water. When combined with a somewhat unpredictable natural world and billions of people, our species gets threatened. Not just by inherited diseases that should have killed the victims before they could have reproduced, but by the needs of such a large number of people.

We need a balanced population. Screw ethics. That's the kind of crap that leaves billions starving because, God knows, we can't just let people die quicker deaths by just letting them kill eachother. No. I'm not going to kill myself. I believe in survival of the healthy and not completely useless. I also believe in getting rid of just the crueler deaths, allowing people to die in ways that aren't as painful. We need a large population, but not nearly this large. Something under a billion should leave enough resources.

Yep, because as humans we have a conscience, and we have evolved beyond the point of needless killing. (funny how some people still act like animals though, right?)

Obviously not seeing as it still happens, every day. People have been killing since day one, be it people or other animals. It's built in, the whole "me first" survival ethic. Yes we have morals and a consience but those are more learned then they are natural. You can teach a dog to obey and roll over quite easily but built in instincts such as attack and kill are much harder to hide. Same thing with people. As children, the society we are raised in determines much of our basic morals and ethics but that basic "I must live" instinct lives one. Take competition of example. The goal is to win. Same deal with life. The rules, the checks and balances that prevent us from pummelling our opponent into oblivion are those learned behaviors.

I feel the OP should've defined 'natural' more clearly. 'Natural' as in 'happens in other animals/nature', then yes, but rarely. 'Natural' as in 'part of our instincts', then yes, humans have killed for as long as they have existed. This does not mean it is moral in any way.