NationStates Jolt Archive

I have a lot of empty water bottles laying around from work (at home I drink from a pitcher filter, which according to the water treatment class I taped, only marginally works, but what ever) and last night noticed that they all had little print on them saying "Do Not Refill." Not one of them says why, but regardless of brand they all say that.

Now, I can come up with the cynical explination, that they'd rather you buy a new bottle instead of just use theirs as a vessel for water you didn't pay them for, but I can't come up with a legitimate reason.

So, for the sake of half-assed effort I'll ask you all. Anyone know a 'legit' reason or is it the cynical one?

I'm late for work so I'll have to come back for this. Keep it lively.

The so-called "legit" reason is that the inside of a bottle generally remains wet for a lot longer than the inside of most other types of container, and so is an ideal environment for the growth of bacteria.

Personally, provided you rinse it out with boiling water first, there's a pretty low chance of catching anything.

i think that "do not refill" means do not refill commercially

as opposed to returnable bottles that get reused by the plant.

there cant be a problem with putting new cold water into a container that held cold water.

its probably a legal requirement to put it on the bottles.

I think they say it's because bacteria grows in it, or whatever. I got myself a few reusable water bottles and just a big jug of spring water, it seems to work better than having multiple disposable water bottles. They all are different colors of these. http://www.motivators.com/resize.asp?path=products/COOL_GEAR_LITTLE_CHILL_22_OZ_PL-0561.jpg&v=1

they work really well. I bought them in bulk so they were like $1 a peice so if I lose one I don't really care so much, cost less than a disposable anyway.

Reminds me of the tags they used to, and maybe still do, on mattresses and pillows. It said, "Do not remove under penalty of law."

As far as the bottles go, my wife and I have been refilling them for a very long time with no ill effects. She does rinse or wash them out once in a while though.

I think they say it's because bacteria grows in it, or whatever. I got myself a few reusable water bottles and just a big jug of spring water, it seems to work better than having multiple disposable water bottles. They all are different colors of these. http://www.motivators.com/resize.asp?path=products/COOL_GEAR_LITTLE_CHILL_22_OZ_PL-0561.jpg&v=1

they work really well. I bought them in bulk so they were like $1 a peice so if I lose one I don't really care so much, cost less than a disposable anyway.

that seems like a great idea for people who use water bottles every day.

buy ones that are easy to use and can be sterilized. what does it matter if they cost a few bucks if you are going to use them for months before finally losing them?

its probably a legal requirement to put it on the bottles.

That's pretty much what it is. They don't want to get their asses sued off if someone happens to get sick.

But, seriously. If this was a major issue, my regular water bottles (like hard plastic ones that are meant to be re-used) wouldn't be existing because of that problem.

It's safe to say if you wash the bottle out, then drink from it, you're fine.

It's just them saving their own butts. Look on coffee cups "Caution: HOT". Or peanut cans "Caution: Contains nuts". It's for those people out there that are either too stupid or don't have common sense that will sue when something happens to them.

For the love of frogs, KAT...please stop using the small font! I skip all your posts because I don't want to have to squint at the screen...or my eyes pass over them because I assume it's just the regular 'pay no attention this is my huge honking signature' or something. THINK OF THE CHILDREN! (and people with bad eyes)

I make a water bottle last for ages...I always carry one at school or work, and it gets refilled constantly. Needs to be washed out now and again because it starts smelling funky. Eventually you have to get a new one because it doesn't stop smelling funky.

I don't know where people get this bacteria nonsense from. It doesn't even make sense. We reuse bottles all the time and bacteria is no threat at all. It says DO NOT REFILL or NO REFILL so you don't bring it to a place and just fill it with soda for the refill price. You certainly can refill it with your own stuff if you want. You can even buy cup of soda and fill it into the bottle later. :)

The government really does not invade the home as much, if at all, as people think...:headbang:

For the love of frogs, KAT...please stop using the small font! I skip all your posts because I don't want to have to squint at the screen...or my eyes pass over them because I assume it's just the regular 'pay no attention this is my huge honking signature' or something. THINK OF THE CHILDREN! (and people with bad eyes)

i've had to move near to my screen to read them so listen to her

as for OP our large water bottles don't say that on them,only says for drinking water only so on

The other thing is certain grades of plastic will degrade after prolonged use. Which makes them fine for once-off use, but not so great when they start breaking down into your gym water 12 months and 365 refills later. Though, for obvious reasons not all companies use this grade of plastic.

Babe I don't even think those little glass bottle of Coke can even be refilled anymore. I think that is from just a cost of production issue. Years ago when I was responsible for a government recycling agency there were a lot of laws being passed in various states on the whole recycling area. Bottlers and especially retailers did not want to have to collect, store, clean/reprocess, and then refill glass, plastic, or metal containers. In my state the retailers were the big ones who limited the effort to really put in place a major recycling effort because of their concerns on space, health (keeping the areas free of animals/insects), and being a pass through of the money for the recycled item.
Right now I know of none that are directly refilled, the material has to be reprocessed and then reformed into a new beverage container.

Link (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AtBiQ1_ao4MdmuJ9ipFNmlEjzKIX?qid=20070606111138AAMnBFd)

I constantly refill a 1.5L water bottle from a 5L bottle. I haven't had any problems with it so far. Sometimes I lose the small one so I have to take a new one. Does anybody know a good way to make pipe-water (or however you call it, the water that you use to wash and stuff) remotely drinkable? It's not that it's poisonous or something, but it tastes and smells like Cl2 and I believe there is a lot of CaCO3 in it, so i guess it needs to be filtered. (sorry for the chemical formulas, but i don't want to search for the English names)

I constantly refill a 1.5L water bottle from a 5L bottle. I haven't had any problems with it so far. Sometimes I lose the small one so I have to take a new one. Does anybody know a good way to make pipe-water (or however you call it, the water that you use to wash and stuff) remotely drinkable? It's not that it's poisonous or something, but it tastes and smells like Cl2 and I believe there is a lot of CaCO3 in it, so i guess it needs to be filtered. (sorry for the chemical formulas, but i don't want to search for the English names)

Buy a tap water filter. :)

They its cos the bottles are supposedly enviromently friendly and rot faster than normal ones the truth sadly enough is that the just want to flog you more of their crap. Peckham water anyone?

Completely off the question here but I wonder every time people mention bottled water.... How can they say "completely natural from source" and all that other marketing crap. Surely the don't expect us to believe some old man sits there filling bottles by hand. They pump it through dirty old pipes propaleable lead ones and into plastic bottles they them self admit can contaminate the water.

Around here, most bottles (at least those of commonly known beverage producers) have a little imprint saying "Don't refill with anything but beverages" because of the danger of Terminally Stupid People (tm) recognizing the bottle, thinking "Oh, drink!" and drink the non-beverage (I heard there's a lot of cases of people drinking half a (soda) bottle of de-icing fluid or similar because the owner of the car had stored the fluid in a, say, Sprite bottle or something as commonly known as a nice beverage.

... honestly, half a litre of de-icer? Once again, I fail to understand how one can be so.. stupid.

So, for the sake of half-assed effort I'll ask you all. Anyone know a 'legit' reason or is it the cynical one?
The chemical they put in the water to make you buy more stuff degrades over time into a toxin. Obviously they don't want you to die (dead people don't buy much stuff), so they'd rather you throw away the bottle.

Well, it's a different cynical explanation at least...

Refilling a water bottle more than a handful of times degrades the plastic and you end up with bits of it floating in your water. Not a good thing to ingest.... but it is rather small qualities.

I've been refilling the same plastic water bottle at least twice a day for the last three months, and have washed it out with hot water all of twice in that time (although I do rinse the neck about once a week).
This has never been a problem... een a probl... een a probl... een a probl... een a probl... een a probl.. *disconnect*

Refilling a water bottle more than a handful of times degrades the plastic and you end up with bits of it floating in your water. Not a good thing to ingest.... but it is rather small qualities.

Any way to confirm this is not just a nice, convenient myth? It's just that my anti-analytical mind fails to understand the difference it makes to the wear of the inner side of the plastic whether it is covered by water for 3 months while the bottle sits on the shelf filled with its original content, or whether it is covered by water for 3 months while I keep re-filling it every time it gets empty?

They avoid potential lawsuits. There's nothing wrong with refilling the bottle as such, but just in case, they clear all responsibility of the matter and leave it up to you.

It's also to avoid having restaurants, who may buy their products, refill the bottles, rather than get new clean ones. It's a matter of health basically and one that they don't want to be responsible for if anything goes wrong.

Oh yes, some bottles might convey chemicals into water, but I haven't quite studied this yet and I doubt that most of them would even be approved to be used as drinking bottles.

Any way to confirm this is not just a nice, convenient myth? It's just that my anti-analytical mind fails to understand the difference it makes to the wear of the inner side of the plastic whether it is covered by water for 3 months while the bottle sits on the shelf filled with its original content, or whether it is covered by water for 3 months while I keep re-filling it every time it gets empty?

Standard chemistry knowledge teaches you that everything transfers from one place to another in however minute amounts, given enough time. Especially plastics.

I constantly refill a 1.5L water bottle from a 5L bottle. I haven't had any problems with it so far. Sometimes I lose the small one so I have to take a new one. Does anybody know a good way to make pipe-water (or however you call it, the water that you use to wash and stuff) remotely drinkable? It's not that it's poisonous or something, but it tastes and smells like Cl2 and I believe there is a lot of CaCO3 in it, so i guess it needs to be filtered. (sorry for the chemical formulas, but i don't want to search for the English names)

CaCO3 is good for your bones.

It's the Pb you should be concerned about.

Standard chemistry knowledge teaches you that everything transfers from one place to another in however minute amounts, given enough time. Especially plastics.

Why yes, even I have come that far. The thing is that water bottles have a very long use-by date, one that usually goes months beyond the time you actually consume the water at. Companies selling water bottles should use such quality that they don't give off any significant amount of anything harmful into the water until at least that date, yes? Therefore, refilling up until the best-by date (and very few peope would refill a bottle for more than several months, no?) shouldn't be any danger by that logic, should it?

(Note: This is an explanation for why it should be safe to refill, not for why there is or is not a "Don't refill" sign on the bottles)

Any way to confirm this is not just a nice, convenient myth? It's just that my anti-analytical mind fails to understand the difference it makes to the wear of the inner side of the plastic whether it is covered by water for 3 months while the bottle sits on the shelf filled with its original content, or whether it is covered by water for 3 months while I keep re-filling it every time it gets empty?

I can't for the life of me remember where I read it... I should probably look it up.

My guess is if there is a difference its because the water is moving when you refill it/empty it. Kinetic energy makes reactions happen faster. Of course, then the same thing should happen if you store it in a warm place. This warrants further investigation.

After doing a Google search it seems the "plastic releases toxins into the water" thing is more in our heads than in reality (which makes sense seeing how, as SoWiBi said, it would release those toxins just as much while sitting in some warehouse for two years waiting to be sold in its original state).

Here is what a manufacturer (http://www.breconwater.co.uk/content/public/faq/default.asp?varPageSubTitle=Your%20health#21)says in their FAQ:
21. Why do we recommend that you do not refill the bottle?

We cannot guarantee the sterility and composition of the contents of a refilled bottle. We are responsible, and guarantee the quality of Brecon Carreg Natural Mineral Water when it is filled in virgin bottles. There are also reported cases of refilling other plastic bottles, not just with water, but with a colourless solvent which has led to some serious accidents.

Basically, they don't want to end up being sued by some twit just because you were either too stupid to realize that cleaning your bottle once in a while to get rid of the bacteria accumulating over days and weeks of drinking straight from the bottle would be a good idea or, like SoWiBi said, because someone refills the bottle with some toxic substance.

The whole "afraid of law suits" thing also explains why the "do not refill" warning seems to be limited mainly to the US.

I think its becouse people might use the bottles for other things than water, for instance one might put homebrewed liquor.

I use to work for one of the largest beverage companies in the world. The term "do not refill" is specifically for commercial refilling. The old glass bottles could be refilled. When they went to the small thin glassed 16oz bottles and then plastic is when that "Do not refill" sign appeared. The reason for the thin glass 16oz was because the glass couldn't handle the sanitizing and filling without breaking. Remember the refillable bottles were a much more robust glass. The plastic carried on this tradition because of the same reasons for the thin glassed bottles with the added reason that plastic was much harder to sanitize then glass because of it's specific properties. Now refilling a water bottle with tap water or your favorite home made beverage will not kill you. I would just replace that bottle with a newer one after awhile if it is not water you keep refilling it with. Plastic tends to hold particulates from whatever was in it. At least when I was in the business.

-snippage-

How *dare* you interrupt a nice thread full of peaceful fear-mongering, myths and finger-pointing with your sane little disgusting facts?! I mean, links and all! Have you no shame?

Well if we're being cynical (Yay!), then one trend I have noticed is for bottle manufacturers to have a foldy cap to seal the bottle instead of the push pull ones. Meaning that after a while it gets ripped off forcing you to buy a new one. Gits.

Well if we're being cynical (Yay!), then one trend I have noticed is for bottle manufacturers to have a foldy cap to seal the bottle instead of the push pull ones. Meaning that after a while it gets ripped off forcing you to buy a new one. Gits.

More has to do with manufacturing costs then anything. If you are buying a plastic bottle of water who is the "git" to begin with?

More has to do with manufacturing costs then anything. If you are buying a plastic bottle of water who is the "git" to begin with?

Hmm, are you sure? I can't imagine it makes that much difference, as the nozzle bit is already there.

As for gits, I buy as few bottles as possible (I have a very battered one of these (http://www.nomadtravel.co.uk/store/pages/images/travelstore/sigg_water_bottles.jpg)), but I tend to use them until the plastic fails, then recycle them. :)

Why yes, even I have come that far. The thing is that water bottles have a very long use-by date, one that usually goes months beyond the time you actually consume the water at. Companies selling water bottles should use such quality that they don't give off any significant amount of anything harmful into the water until at least that date, yes? Therefore, refilling up until the best-by date (and very few peope would refill a bottle for more than several months, no?) shouldn't be any danger by that logic, should it?

(Note: This is an explanation for why it should be safe to refill, not for why there is or is not a "Don't refill" sign on the bottles)

Note: I agree that it is safe to refill and was merely explaining the presence of a do not refill tag. They don't want trouble because some idiot used the same water bottle for fifty years and developed not only a new strain of bacteria, but a number of plastic related illnesses as well.

However, the plastic will travel from bottle to water. That doesn't necessarily make it dangerous though :p

Hmm, are you sure? I can't imagine it makes that much difference, as the nozzle bit is already there.

As for gits, I buy as few bottles as possible (I have a very battered one of these (http://www.nomadtravel.co.uk/store/pages/images/travelstore/sigg_water_bottles.jpg)), but I tend to use them until the plastic fails, then recycle them. :)

As manufacturing goes with the beverage industry they calculate out to the .001 in costs. The reason is there are so many bottles made that it adds up quick. Any way to reduce costs without reducing sales is an advantage that they take.

a big part is that you can no longer guarantee what is in the bottle.

There was a case a while ago in Australia that was featured on Discovery where someone took a swig out of a water bottle in the guard stand. Turns out, it had some box jelly fish tentacles being stored for research.

there have also been cases where people transport things like bleach and someone drinks it.

Add to this, the bacteria issue.

I have a lot of empty water bottles laying around from work (at home I drink from a pitcher filter, which according to the water treatment class I taped, only marginally works, but what ever) and last night noticed that they all had little print on them saying "Do Not Refill." Not one of them says why, but regardless of brand they all say that.

Now, I can come up with the cynical explination, that they'd rather you buy a new bottle instead of just use theirs as a vessel for water you didn't pay them for, but I can't come up with a legitimate reason.

So, for the sake of half-assed effort I'll ask you all. Anyone know a 'legit' reason or is it the cynical one?

I'm late for work so I'll have to come back for this. Keep it lively.Haven't spent time to read the whole thread but being the cynical person I am, and too cheap to buy a bottle of water, I would say they don't want to get sued if you don't clean the bottle each time. And they want to sell the suckers more water. Why not just get a bottle at the dollar store that you can take a large lid off so you can clean it properly, and fill it with tap water. In our area it costs 1 1/2 cents per gallon.

On a more positive note, take your bottles and put in a few stones to make noise and give them to your dog. He will love the new toy.

I have a lot of empty water bottles laying around from work (at home I drink from a pitcher filter, which according to the water treatment class I taped, only marginally works, but what ever) and last night noticed that they all had little print on them saying "Do Not Refill." Not one of them says why, but regardless of brand they all say that.

Now, I can come up with the cynical explination, that they'd rather you buy a new bottle instead of just use theirs as a vessel for water you didn't pay them for, but I can't come up with a legitimate reason.

So, for the sake of half-assed effort I'll ask you all. Anyone know a 'legit' reason or is it the cynical one?

I'm late for work so I'll have to come back for this. Keep it lively.

For the same reason that you shouldn't copy CD's onto your computer and listen to them that way. Because you're stealing from the bottled water manufacturer. If you refill a bottle of water you are stealing a bottle of water just as if you had walked into the store, picked up a bottle and walked out with it.

You might think that this is a poor argument because once you have purchased the bottle you are free to do anything you want with it, including putting water that you also own into it.

Music pirates use the same argument with their CD's. They pay for the blank CD's, they pay for the MP3 players, they may even pay for the CD's, but if you copy all your songs onto your MP3 player, then that's a CD, or a download that you didn't buy, thus theft.

I suppose you also think it would be ok to buy a bottle of water, drink it, refill it, and give it to your friend too huh? Allow them to enjoy the freedom and convenience of drinking from a bottle without having to pay for the product that the beverage manufacturer so industriously provides.

Bottle pirating is theft, plain and simple. And it would be illegal if donut-eating cops could be persuaded to enforce a law against the theft of something that only costs a dollar. If you and your freeloading friends want bottled water you'll just have to pay for it yourselves, each time you want one.

In case it has to be pointed out, yes, I'm being sarcastic.

I constantly refill a 1.5L water bottle from a 5L bottle. I haven't had any problems with it so far. Sometimes I lose the small one so I have to take a new one. Does anybody know a good way to make pipe-water (or however you call it, the water that you use to wash and stuff) remotely drinkable? It's not that it's poisonous or something, but it tastes and smells like Cl2 and I believe there is a lot of CaCO3 in it, so i guess it needs to be filtered. (sorry for the chemical formulas, but i don't want to search for the English names)That would be Chlorine and Calcium Carbonate. The Chlorine is added to prevent germs from growing in the water being processing and point of use. Calcium carbonate is naturally occurring. It is harmless. It is even used as a food additive to fortify foods with calcium. The only it does harm are things which heat water, like your kettle, washing machine and dishwasher. The heating causes the carbonate to precipitate and form limescale deposits on the heating elements - making them less efficient. Both chemicals can be removed with a water filter.

I remember hearing something about the oil/chemicals that the bottles are made of leech out of the materiel over time, so to keep refilling the bottles would let those oils/chemicals into any water in the bottle. Maybe it is just rumour and innuendo.

Link (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AtBiQ1_ao4MdmuJ9ipFNmlEjzKIX?qid=20070606111138AAMnBFd)
Pff. Anyone can do 'research'...
I constantly refill a 1.5L water bottle from a 5L bottle. I haven't had any problems with it so far. Sometimes I lose the small one so I have to take a new one. Does anybody know a good way to make pipe-water (or however you call it, the water that you use to wash and stuff) remotely drinkable? It's not that it's poisonous or something, but it tastes and smells like Cl2 and I believe there is a lot of CaCO3 in it, so i guess it needs to be filtered. (sorry for the chemical formulas, but i don't want to search for the English names)

Buy a tap water filter. :)
Not one at the nossel though, get the under the sink kind. The water treatment class concluded that was the only one worth it.

After doing a Google search it seems the "plastic releases toxins into the water" thing is more in our heads than in reality (which makes sense seeing how, as SoWiBi said, it would release those toxins just as much while sitting in some warehouse for two years waiting to be sold in its original state).

Here is what a manufacturer (http://www.breconwater.co.uk/content/public/faq/default.asp?varPageSubTitle=Your%20health#21)says in their FAQ:


Basically, they don't want to end up being sued by some twit just because you were either too stupid to realize that cleaning your bottle once in a while to get rid of the bacteria accumulating over days and weeks of drinking straight from the bottle would be a good idea or, like SoWiBi said, because someone refills the bottle with some toxic substance.

The whole "afraid of law suits" thing also explains why the "do not refill" warning seems to be limited mainly to the US.
See? Research...

Seriously though, thanks. I wish that made sense to me, but thanks.
How *dare* you interrupt a nice thread full of peaceful fear-mongering, myths and finger-pointing with your sane little disgusting facts?! I mean, links and all! Have you no shame?
Totally. Killjoys...

The so-called "legit" reason is that the inside of a bottle generally remains wet for a lot longer than the inside of most other types of container, and so is an ideal environment for the growth of bacteria.

Personally, provided you rinse it out with boiling water first, there's a pretty low chance of catching anything.
AYUP.
I've grown plenty of things in said bottles before.

After doing a Google search it seems the "plastic releases toxins into the water" thing is more in our heads than in reality (which makes sense seeing how, as SoWiBi said, it would release those toxins just as much while sitting in some warehouse for two years waiting to be sold in its original state).

Here is what a manufacturer (http://www.breconwater.co.uk/content/public/faq/default.asp?varPageSubTitle=Your%20health#21)says in their FAQ:


Basically, they don't want to end up being sued by some twit just because you were either too stupid to realize that cleaning your bottle once in a while to get rid of the bacteria accumulating over days and weeks of drinking straight from the bottle would be a good idea or, like SoWiBi said, because someone refills the bottle with some toxic substance.

The whole "afraid of law suits" thing also explains why the "do not refill" warning seems to be limited mainly to the US.

That works...

a big part is that you can no longer guarantee what is in the bottle.

There was a case a while ago in Australia that was featured on Discovery where someone took a swig out of a water bottle in the guard stand. Turns out, it had some box jelly fish tentacles being stored for research.

there have also been cases where people transport things like bleach and someone drinks it.

Add to this, the bacteria issue.
Lets just add bleach to every bottle. Bacteria issue solved.;)

It's safe to say if you wash the bottle out, then drink from it, you're fine.
Why would it need to be washed?

If you buy a bottle of water then it's already sterilized and basically clean, as is the tap water. There aren't much nutrients in the bottle either for bacterial growth.

In case you bought soft drinks then I'd advice a good washing before reuse but nothing more complex is needed.

A non returnable water bottle lasts well enough for several weeks.

The text here on returnable bottles says: Only for soft drink use (rough translation meaning water, juices, lemonade, alcohol mixers..) and is there for the fact that in case you store toxic chemicals or bacterial breeding grounds in the bottle it can make the bottle unsafe for future use (ie. industrial wash & refill).