NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.channeling.net/channeling/path_of_light/index.htm

'Should you still have doubts about the existence of God, I want to tell
you that it would not be possible to have this perfect universe without
the guidance by an incredible intelligence, during its creation. Just
alone the existence of this harmonic, detailed world, held together by
perfect laws, is proof of the existence of God. Do you really believe
that the world is a random "error", as the scientists believe to be the
cause for the "big bang", the creation of the world? Do you believe,
that further consequences of irregularities and errors caused the
creation of the world and the evolution all the way to the creation of
man? Your scientists say this. After the development of life, errors in
the genes caused mutations and this is supposed to be responsible
for the varieties of species. Do you not agree that this is even harder
to believe than the targeted, planned development according to
God's laws?'

Obviously the person who said this uses the word 'God' and refers to God as 'he', but that could be somply because most people on earth refer to the Supreme Being as 'God' and as 'he', so it's easy to identify with. It doesn't necessarily mean that the Supreme Being is male.

http://www.channeling.net/channeling/path_of_light/index.htm

'Should you still have doubts about the existence of God, I want to tell
you that it would not be possible to have this perfect universe without
the guidance by an incredible intelligence, during its creation. Just
alone the existence of this harmonic, detailed world, held together by
perfect laws, is proof of the existence of God. Do you really believe
that the world is a random "error", as the scientists believe to be the
cause for the "big bang", the creation of the world? Do you believe,
that further consequences of irregularities and errors caused the
creation of the world and the evolution all the way to the creation of
man? Your scientists say this. After the development of life, errors in
the genes caused mutations and this is supposed to be responsible
for the varieties of species. Do you not agree that this is even harder
to believe than the targeted, planned development according to
God's laws?'

Obviously the person who said this uses the word 'God' and refers to God as 'he', but that could be somply because most people on earth refer to the Supreme Being as 'God' and as 'he', so it's easy to identify with.

Either that or the ancient greeks were right and The Sky fucked The Earth. :)

This script is special. It was transmitted to us by brother Emmanuel, a high spiritual being<snip>
Kind of ruined any chances of me taking anything else on the site seriously, but not to worry.

From the quoted text in the OP though...

"After the development of life, errors in
the genes caused mutations and this is supposed to be responsible
for the varieties of species. Do you not agree that this is even harder
to believe than the targeted, planned development according to
God's laws?"

Honestly? No, not at all. It's a wonderfully simple, elegant explanation for speciation and one that seems a lot more likely (to me) than the idea that some entity wished all of the vast variety of living creatures into existence on a whim.

Either that or the ancient greeks were right and The Sky fucked The Earth. :)
And then his son cut off his tonker? ;)

And then his son cut off his tonker? ;)

That's why I don't let Little Goofball play with knives. :p

That's why I don't let Little Goofball play with knives. :p

That's why I don't argue with my girlfriend in the kitchen

That's why I don't let Little Goofball play with knives. :p
I'm surprised you'd be worried given that it's been well established about the quality steel that went into that particular area. :p

this perfect universe
Tell him that when the sun explodes.

I'm surprised you'd be worried given that it's been well established about the quality steel that went into that particular area. :p

Yeah, well... it's my kid. I don't underestimate him. :p

Do you not agree that this is even harder
to believe than the targeted, planned development according to
God's laws?


no, not at all. And I'm thankful for that.

http://www.channeling.net/channeling/path_of_light/index.htm

'Should you still have doubts about the existence of God, I want to tell
you that it would not be possible to have this perfect universe without
the guidance by an incredible intelligence, during its creation. Just
alone the existence of this harmonic, detailed world, held together by
perfect laws, is proof of the existence of God. Do you really believe
that the world is a random "error", as the scientists believe to be the
cause for the "big bang", the creation of the world? Do you believe,
that further consequences of irregularities and errors caused the
creation of the world and the evolution all the way to the creation of
man? Your scientists say this. After the development of life, errors in
the genes caused mutations and this is supposed to be responsible
for the varieties of species. Do you not agree that this is even harder
to believe than the targeted, planned development according to
God's laws?'

Obviously the person who said this uses the word 'God' and refers to God as 'he', but that could be somply because most people on earth refer to the Supreme Being as 'God' and as 'he', so it's easy to identify with. It doesn't necessarily mean that the Supreme Being is male.
Nor even that "god" necessarily exists; the comment you quote, I'm not sure who said it, but them describing it as harmonic and detailed is only because humans percieve it that way by our standards. When we're talking about something so broad as the universe and/or life itself, we're talking about the biggest thing possible, because everything is within it. If we're to call it "detailed" what standards are we calling it that by? What if the dynamic of life was different, what if it was even more detailed?

Also, while I believe that god "may or may not exist" claiming to know the existance of a god isn't the same as claiming to know the intentions of a god.

BTW: http://youtube.com/watch?v=HasNHE-bvxA

perfect universe is it? i think the reasoning falls apart right there on the first line.

He does? Oh good, that's that cleared up then.

Next topic?

He does? Oh good, that's that cleared up then.

Next topic?

Unfortunately the next topic is the same (http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb281/Barringtonia_bucket/Picture1.png)

Actually, this only proves that the Flying Spaghetti Monster exists. I'd love to deliberate and preach here, but the Cult of the Bolognese Sauce has it's monthly meeting starting in ten minutes, and being an enthusiastically appreciative fan of the Monster's work, I'll be riding a dog their instead of driving.

Unfortunately the next topic is the same (http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb281/Barringtonia_bucket/Picture1.png)

I sometimes wonder if the G in NSG stands for God.
(Short for "God, not another tiresome fucking religion thread! Why do I waste so much time here?)

I might believe in God more if the universe did not obey laws and life on earth existed anyway. Now, that would require a Supreme Being.

I sometimes wonder if the G in NSG stands for God.
(Short for "God, not another tiresome fucking religion thread! Why do I waste so much time here?)

But this thread isn't about religion. It's about God.

I might believe in God more if the universe did not obey laws and life on earth existed anyway. Now, that would require a Supreme Being.

Bumble bees

But this thread isn't about religion. It's about God.

Tiresome!

Bumble bees

Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I Love Bumblebee, Bumblebee Tuna
Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I love a sandwich made with Bumblebee

Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I Love Bumblebee, Bumblebee Tuna
Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I love a sandwich made with Bumblebee

A man named Bumble said he was so hungry
Him had that craving for something under the sea
I told him I had chicken franks
I told him I had Charlie
He smiled and said to me “I’ll have some Bumblebee”

Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I Love Bumblebee, Bumblebee Tuna
Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I love a sandwich made with Bumblebee

Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I Love Bumblebee, Bumblebee Tuna
Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I love a sandwich made with Bumblebee

One plus one is three
A riddle, a riddle to me
I see an old man pee up against a tree
He peed so fast he made me laugh “kee kee kee kee”
What suited him up and stuff was his belly

Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I Love Bumblebee, Bumblebee Tuna
Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I love a sandwich made with Bumblebee

Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I Love Bumblebee, Bumblebee Tuna
Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I love a sandwich made with Bumblebee

The best tuna in the sea
Is the tuna we call Bumblebee
The best tuna in the sea
Is the tuna we call Bumblebee

Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I Love Bumblebee, Bumblebee Tuna
Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I love a sandwich made with Bumblebee

Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I Love Bumblebee, Bumblebee Tuna
Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I love a sandwich made with Bumblebee

Just the girils!

Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I Love Bumblebee, Bumblebee Tuna
Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I love a sandwich made with Bumblebee

Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I Love Bumblebee, Bumblebee Tuna
Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I love a sandwich made with Bumblebee

Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I Love Bumblebee, Bumblebee Tuna
Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I love a sandwich made with Bumblebee

Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I Love Bumblebee, Bumblebee Tuna
Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I love a sandwich made with Bumblebee

(Until Fade Out)

I find your belief unsubstantiated by reason disturbing.

You know what's really hilarious? When people with no scientific knowledge try to use science to prove God. Good example: http://youtube.com/watch?v=o2RD4vTuPN0

Yeah, well... it's my kid. I don't underestimate him. :p

*starts corrupting mini-LG with slice-fu*

Actually, this only proves that the Flying Spaghetti Monster exists. I'd love to deliberate and preach here, but the Cult of the Bolognese Sauce has it's monthly meeting starting in ten minutes, and being an enthusiastically appreciative fan of the Monster's work, I'll be riding a dog their instead of driving.

I've personally visited the beer volcano.

I find your belief unsubstantiated by reason disturbing.

I find your reason unsubstantiated by belief disturbing.

But then again, I also find really big furry moths disturbing. *nod*

I find your reason unsubstantiated by belief disturbing.


I'm not trying to provoke anyone but why is that disturbing to you?

I hate it when people try to use an that an extremely improbable thing has happened as evidence like that. If it hadn't, we wouldn't be here discussing it and that seems to mess with people's perceptions for some reason.

I'm not trying to provoke anyone but why is that disturbing to you?

Mainly because everybody takes something on faith. It may not be the existence of God, but everyone accepts certain things as given. Especially if they come from a source they trust. For instance: How many of us have actually seen a radiocarbon dating performed? Or followed the calculations and measurements used to determine the calibration in order to determine that radiocarbon dating actually gives accurate answers? We trust a relatively small group of people who tell us that it works. But of that small group of people, you'd probably be amazed at how few actually understand more than the most basic priciples of the technique. The number of people who have a complete understanding of it is actually quite small. Certainly smaller than the number of catholic priests in the world. But we take those scientists' word on faith.

Imagine trying to even get through a day without taking certain things on faith.

http://www.channeling.net/channeling/path_of_light/index.htm

'Should you still have doubts about the existence of God, I want to tell
you that it would not be possible to have this perfect universe without
the guidance by an incredible intelligence, during its creation. Just
alone the existence of this harmonic, detailed world, held together by
perfect laws, is proof of the existence of God. Do you really believe
that the world is a random "error", as the scientists believe to be the
cause for the "big bang", the creation of the world? Do you believe,
that further consequences of irregularities and errors caused the
creation of the world and the evolution all the way to the creation of
man? Your scientists say this. After the development of life, errors in
the genes caused mutations and this is supposed to be responsible
for the varieties of species. Do you not agree that this is even harder
to believe than the targeted, planned development according to
God's laws?'

Obviously the person who said this uses the word 'God' and refers to God as 'he', but that could be somply because most people on earth refer to the Supreme Being as 'God' and as 'he', so it's easy to identify with. It doesn't necessarily mean that the Supreme Being is male.

Ach, pathetic evangelism! To quote Iron Maiden:

Run to the hills, run for your lives!
Run to the hills, run for your lives!

God is an invention of powerful people to rule the less powerful people.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=59946&d=1187959537

Actually, this only proves that the Flying Spaghetti Monster exists. I'd love to deliberate and preach here, but the Cult of the Bolognese Sauce has it's monthly meeting starting in ten minutes, and being an enthusiastically appreciative fan of the Monster's work, I'll be riding a dog their instead of driving.
His Noodly Visage appeared in my Country Crock, clearly proving his existence!
Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I Love Bumblebee, Bumblebee Tuna
Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I love a sandwich made with Bumblebee

Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I Love Bumblebee, Bumblebee Tuna
Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I love a sandwich made with Bumblebee

A man named Bumble said he was so hungry
Him had that craving for something under the sea
I told him I had chicken franks
I told him I had Charlie
He smiled and said to me “I’ll have some Bumblebee”

Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I Love Bumblebee, Bumblebee Tuna
Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I love a sandwich made with Bumblebee

Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I Love Bumblebee, Bumblebee Tuna
Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I love a sandwich made with Bumblebee

One plus one is three
A riddle, a riddle to me
I see an old man pee up against a tree
He peed so fast he made me laugh “kee kee kee kee”
What suited him up and stuff was his belly

Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I Love Bumblebee, Bumblebee Tuna
Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I love a sandwich made with Bumblebee

Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I Love Bumblebee, Bumblebee Tuna
Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I love a sandwich made with Bumblebee

The best tuna in the sea
Is the tuna we call Bumblebee
The best tuna in the sea
Is the tuna we call Bumblebee

Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I Love Bumblebee, Bumblebee Tuna
Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I love a sandwich made with Bumblebee

Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I Love Bumblebee, Bumblebee Tuna
Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I love a sandwich made with Bumblebee

Just the girils!

Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I Love Bumblebee, Bumblebee Tuna
Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I love a sandwich made with Bumblebee

Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I Love Bumblebee, Bumblebee Tuna
Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I love a sandwich made with Bumblebee

Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I Love Bumblebee, Bumblebee Tuna
Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I love a sandwich made with Bumblebee

Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I Love Bumblebee, Bumblebee Tuna
Yum yum Bumble, Bumblebee Tuna
I love a sandwich made with Bumblebee

(Until Fade Out)
I'm totally listening to that right now. I never could make out the non-jingle lyrics.

http://www.channeling.net/channeling/path_of_light/index.htm

'Should you still have doubts about the existence of God, I want to tell
you that it would not be possible to have this perfect universe without
the guidance by an incredible intelligence, during its creation. Just
alone the existence of this harmonic, detailed world, held together by
perfect laws, is proof of the existence of God. Do you really believe
that the world is a random "error", as the scientists believe to be the
cause for the "big bang", the creation of the world? Do you believe,
that further consequences of irregularities and errors caused the
creation of the world and the evolution all the way to the creation of
man? Your scientists say this. After the development of life, errors in
the genes caused mutations and this is supposed to be responsible
for the varieties of species. Do you not agree that this is even harder
to believe than the targeted, planned development according to
God's laws?'

Obviously the person who said this uses the word 'God' and refers to God as 'he', but that could be somply because most people on earth refer to the Supreme Being as 'God' and as 'he', so it's easy to identify with. It doesn't necessarily mean that the Supreme Being is male.
It is possible to have perfect things without God. Perfection is one of our ideas. (As are "things," per Adam in the Garden of Eden story.)

The intelligence behind that perfection is your (our) own.

The above "path of light" statement is the epitomy of idolatry.

http://www.channeling.net/channeling/path_of_light/index.htm

'Should you still have doubts about the existence of God, I want to tell
you that it would not be possible to have this perfect universe without
the guidance by an incredible intelligence, during its creation. Just
alone the existence of this harmonic, detailed world, held together by
perfect laws, is proof of the existence of God. Do you really believe
that the world is a random "error", as the scientists believe to be the
cause for the "big bang", the creation of the world? Do you believe,
that further consequences of irregularities and errors caused the
creation of the world and the evolution all the way to the creation of
man? Your scientists say this. After the development of life, errors in
the genes caused mutations and this is supposed to be responsible
for the varieties of species. Do you not agree that this is even harder
to believe than the targeted, planned development according to
God's laws?'

Obviously the person who said this uses the word 'God' and refers to God as 'he', but that could be somply because most people on earth refer to the Supreme Being as 'God' and as 'he', so it's easy to identify with. It doesn't necessarily mean that the Supreme Being is male.
I still don't get it:

What is so hard to believe about chance influencing the way our universe has come to be?

What is so distasteful about the idea that chance happenings have contributed to our history and the shape of our current reality?

Why are some people so completely unable to grasp the concept of genetic mutation? Is it willful ignorance, out-right dishonesty, or just genuine stupidity?

:headbang:

Multiland, you are an idiot.

Humans have such a limited perception and are so big on ourselves, our egos dont want us great creatures to just be made by something as simple and mundane as chance. It doesnt make for nearly as grand of a story as us being the center stars on stage and God creating us in his image and making us top dog of the universe. See? MUCH more interesting story and GREAT for the human ego. The simple fact is we are involved in an intergalactic game of marbles. Things are randomly bouncing off other things and entire galaxys are colliding and consuming each other in huge balls of unimaginable energy and destruction every second of the day. There is no morality or love or judgement or regret or anything in this action. Its just trillions and trillions of rocks out there bouncing around and off of each other and sometimes one of those rocks gets an infection. Our particular infection in our neck of the woods we call humanity. And we think we are the center of everything. (giggles).

Imagine trying to even get through a day without taking certain things on faith.
One does not have to believe anything about them in order to use them. That conceptual construct which we use to interface with the world is merely an item of convenience, and does not necessarily need to be believed to reflect the "real world" in order to be useful.

Multiland, you are an idiot.

:D I mean............uh.............:eek: we shouldn't flame.

Humans have such a limited perception and are so big on ourselves

Speak for yourself

Speak for yourself

I dont have to. its one of the most well documented facts in the world.

since we have no idea what came before the big bang, it may be that there were a billion random big bangs that "came to nothing" before this one that randomly generated a stable universe with laws (generated before the first second of the universe passed) that made the eventual generation of human life possible.

the world is not perfect, we have been shaped by the conditions on earth to be as we are. if the earth had been slightly different or if random catastrophes had happened slightly differently life on earth would be quite different and humanity might never have developed at all.

or if there WERE a supreme being creator..

he might have started this universe on accident "oops i shouldnta done that", or as an experiment, or out of the kind of spite that has small boys tear the wings off flies. he might not even have noticed that he did it. shit happens, eh?

or he might have started it, played with it for a while, then went on to start a different universe somewhere else. or maybe he DIED.

the pont is that there is no reason to think that there is an INVOLVED god at this point no matter how it got started.

[QUOTE=Multiland;12994092]http://www.channeling.net/channeling/path_of_light/index.htm

'Should you still have doubts about the existence of God, I want to tell
you that it would not be possible to have this perfect universe without
the guidance by an incredible intelligence, during its creation. Just
alone the existence of this harmonic, detailed world, held together by
perfect laws, is proof of the existence of God. Do you really believe
that the world is a random "error", as the scientists believe to be the
cause for the "big bang", the creation of the world? Do you believe,
that further consequences of irregularities and errors caused the
creation of the world and the evolution all the way to the creation of
man? Your scientists say this. After the development of life, errors in
the genes caused mutations and this is supposed to be responsible
for the varieties of species. Do you not agree that this is even harder
to believe than the targeted, planned development according to
God's laws?'

No

Unfortunately the next topic is the same (http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb281/Barringtonia_bucket/Picture1.png)

Heh the next topic is always the same, and will always remain so until, you Godless heathens admit you are wrong! Admit it!

no, not at all. And I'm thankful for that.


Well said. I couldn't agree more.

I still don't get it:

<snip>

Why are some people so completely unable to grasp the concept of genetic mutation? Is it willful ignorance, out-right dishonesty, or just genuine stupidity?

The later I believe. And the weak minded need to grasp onto the hope that someone is looking out for them and will save them.

Mainly because everybody takes something on faith. It may not be the existence of God, but everyone accepts certain things as given. Especially if they come from a source they trust. For instance: How many of us have actually seen a radiocarbon dating performed? Or followed the calculations and measurements used to determine the calibration in order to determine that radiocarbon dating actually gives accurate answers? We trust a relatively small group of people who tell us that it works. But of that small group of people, you'd probably be amazed at how few actually understand more than the most basic priciples of the technique. The number of people who have a complete understanding of it is actually quite small. Certainly smaller than the number of catholic priests in the world. But we take those scientists' word on faith.

Imagine trying to even get through a day without taking certain things on faith.

Errrrrrr....

The difference here is you don't HAVE to take science on faith. If you want to, you can go see radio carbon dating in action. You can study the processes and understand how they work and become a scientist and actually do the experiment yourself and have real, hands on experience with it, so faith is not REQUIRED.

You cannot, no matter how much you study, get hands on with God. Faith is the ONLY way.

Errrrrrr....

The difference here is you don't HAVE to take science on faith. If you want to, you can go see radio carbon dating in action. You can study the processes and understand how they work and become a scientist and actually do the experiment yourself and have real, hands on experience with it, so faith is not REQUIRED.

And that goes for any kind of science, including evolution. Like just on thursday it took me about an hour alter the DNA of an E. coli bacterial colony to make it resistant to antibiotics and give it a green fluorescent glow. If i can do that in a day what is so hard to imagine about human evolution occuring over thousands of years!

:D I mean............uh.............:eek: we shouldn't flame.

Is it still flaming if the mods agree with the statement? :p

Errrrrrr....

The difference here is you don't HAVE to take science on faith. If you want to, you can go see radio carbon dating in action. You can study the processes and understand how they work and become a scientist and actually do the experiment yourself and have real, hands on experience with it, so faith is not REQUIRED.

You cannot, no matter how much you study, get hands on with God. Faith is the ONLY way.
Do you have plans for tomorrow?

The Lord exists!!! Just have faith.

The Lord exists!!! Just have faith.

I'd be a bit pissed off if thats all the effort my followers put into converting others

That's why I don't let Little Goofball play with knives. :p

Oh shit it's reproducing! Awesome.

Unfortunately the next topic is the same (http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb281/Barringtonia_bucket/Picture1.png)

I lol'd pretty hard.

Is it still flaming if the mods agree with the statement? :p

unfortunately yes, you can get banned and everything, even if the mods agree wtih your statements 100%

Errrrrrr....

The difference here is you don't HAVE to take science on faith. If you want to, you can go see radio carbon dating in action. You can study the processes and understand how they work and become a scientist and actually do the experiment yourself and have real, hands on experience with it, so faith is not REQUIRED.
"Don't have to" misses the point. "Does" is faith.

The Giant Spaghetti-Monster exists!!! Just have faith.
:p

unfortunately yes, you can get banned and everything, even if the mods agree wtih your statements 100%

Oh well, I will have to rely on 'idiot' being considered rather mild.

That is a terrible argument.

Multiland, you are an idiot.

Cool it.

The Lord exists!!! Just have faith.



YES!

In your head. Keep it there locked.

Btw, why do you presume it is a lord anyway? It could be a lady as well, no?

You ever saw any god at all?


- People who believe in an invisible friend that can create or break *everything*, such people should be locked away for their own and our safety -

YES!

In your head. Keep it there locked.

Btw, why do you presume it is a lord anyway? It could be a lady as well, no?

You ever saw any god at all?


- People who believe in an invisible friend that can create or break *everything*, such people should be locked away for their own and our safety -

So basically, you're saying that anyone who believes in God should be locked away? That's horribly intolerant. I sure hope you at least learn to respect other people's beliefs, even if you don't agree with them.

So basically, you're saying that anyone who believes in God should be locked away? That's horribly intolerant. I sure hope you at least learn to respect other people's beliefs, even if you don't agree with them.


No no no. You can believe in god, a god or gods.

I am talking about people who believe in imaginary invisible friends that create or break *everything*...

I am not an expert, but I am sure there's a label for such mental disease, no?

So basically, you're saying that anyone who believes in God should be locked away? That's horribly intolerant. I sure hope you at least learn to respect other people's beliefs, even if you don't agree with them.
I simply find it funny that that believing you are hated by an invisible conspiracy of evil forces is considered crazy, but believing you are loved by an invisible patriarch in the sky is...well, seriously considered.

"The number of people who have a complete understanding of it is actually quite small. Certainly smaller than the number of catholic priests in the world. But we take those scientists' word on faith."

According to who, exactly? Have you gone around the world testing scientists to see what they understand about Carbon dating? Double checked the math at CERN to see if our models of the Strong and Weak Nuclear Forces are correct?

Do you have any idea how many devices today would not work correctly if the Standard Model of physics, upon which the rates of decay that give us the system of Carbon dating are based, is significantly off?

Is there science to back up your claim? Or are we supposed to take your claim... on faith?


Ben

No no no. You can believe in god, a god or gods.

I am talking about people who believe in imaginary invisible friends that create or break *everything*...

I am not an expert, but I am sure there's a label for such mental disease, no?


Maybe we have to finetune it a little, since I'm not qualified to do diagnoses, but this seems to come close:

"Schizophrenia, from the Greek roots schizein (σχίζειν, "to split") and phrēn, phren- (φρήν, φρεν-, "mind"), is a psychiatric diagnosis that describes a mental illness characterized by impairments in the perception or expression of reality, most commonly manifesting as auditory hallucinations, paranoid or bizarre delusions or disorganized speech and thinking in the context of significant social or occupational dysfunction."

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia

Should you still have doubts about the existence of God, I want to tell you that it would not be possible to have this perfect universe without the guidance by an incredible intelligence, during its creation.

That's a good point. I had doubts about the existence of God, but now that I've read something on the internet, I am completely assured that not only is our universe perfect, but that it's perfection is because of an incredible creative divine intelligence.

Just
alone the existence of this harmonic, detailed world, held together by
perfect laws, is proof of the existence of God.

Oh, I agree! Harmony is quite obviously proof, indisputable and universal proof, that God exists. I don't know why any musicians are atheists. I guess they just hate freedom.

Do you really believe
that the world is a random "error", as the scientists believe to be the
cause for the "big bang", the creation of the world?

Another great point. The possibility of being a result of "error," which I'm now assured the big bang to be, is so distasteful that I'd just prefer to believe in God.

Do you believe,
that further consequences of irregularities and errors caused the
creation of the world and the evolution all the way to the creation of
man? Your scientists say this.

Of course I don't! That's a bunch of horse-hockey. Evolution doesn't exist, and in fact, species have never changed at all throughout all the thousands of years of existence.

After the development of life, errors in
the genes caused mutations and this is supposed to be responsible
for the varieties of species. Do you not agree that this is even harder
to believe than the targeted, planned development according to
God's laws?

Yes, it's nearly impossible to believe. Mutation? Unproven hokum! Genes? NASA techno-babble! No no, I'm now completely convinced that God's Law, God's Holy Law, God's Divine Intelligence is the creator of everything.

I once was blind, but now I can see.

Thank you, Multiland. Thank you for bringing me out of the darkness and into the light. Praise God.

Snippage

It seems my sarcasm-meter has gone and broken trying to measure that post. :p

I simply find it funny that that believing you are hated by an invisible conspiracy of evil forces is considered crazy, but believing you are loved by an invisible patriarch in the sky is...well, seriously considered.

It is slightly different, the invisible conspiracy is within our universe and has to follow our laws of physics and would also rely on implications that humans are capable of breaking such laws etc... Science would say that such a belief is highly irrational. However, science only explains our understanding of our universe, but cannot assert anything about something outside of our universe that does not need to follow our laws of physics. So science can not make God seem irrational in the same way as the invisible conspiracy, as there are no standards already set, no laws of physics that says such things cannot happen.

There is also the obvious fact that schizophrenics behave completely differently to religious people in general.

I simply find it funny that that believing you are hated by an invisible conspiracy of evil forces...

Doesn't that describe everyone in the world who supports the "War on Terror"?

Doesn't that describe everyone in the world who supports the "War on Terror"?

Terrorists are invisible?

Doesn't that describe everyone in the world who supports the "War on Terror"?

So the terrorists are invisible huh? Well it all makes sense now! And those bombs and deaths must have been figments of my imagination.

Doesn't that describe everyone in the world who supports the "War on Terror"?

I've always thought that a strange cliche, war on terror?

I have knightmares almost every night and some of them are truely terrible, I ain't seen any body wageing war on my knightmares?

Terrorists are invisible?

I've never seen one. Have you?

I've never seen one. Have you?

You havn't? I ask you, do you not have a tv? Can your computer not display images?

You havn't? I ask you, do you not have a tv? Can your computer not display images?

Because if it's on the TV or the Internet, it must be true...

Because if it's on the TV or the Internet, it must be true...

Do you actually deny the existence of terrorists?

Terrorists are invisible?

The phrase was "invisible conspiracy of evil forces," not "evil conspiracy of invisible forces."

I've never seen one. Have you?

I've never seen the statue of liberty... is that a big conspiracy too?

The phrase was "invisible conspiracy of evil forces," not "evil conspiracy of invisible forces."

So massive organisations, such as Al Qaida, are not plotting to terrorise the west?

Just alone the existence of this harmonic, detailed world, held together by
perfect laws, is proof of the existence of God.

Harmonic world, held together by perfect laws? Don't make me laugh.
Anyone who actually believes this garbage needs a good hard kick in the shins.

So massive organisations, such as Al Qaida, are not plotting to terrorise the west?

How about the "Axis of Evil?"

No. I just said I've never seen one.

Are all invisible things non-existent?

Yes. Just because you can't see something doesn't make it invisible.

Do you actually deny the existence of terrorists?

No. I just said I've never seen one.

Are all invisible things non-existent?

The phrase was "invisible conspiracy of evil forces," not "evil conspiracy of invisible forces."

Good point.

Yes. Just because you can't see something doesn't make it invisible.

What does make it invisible?

What does make it invisible?

If nobody can see it.

If nobody can see it.

If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is there to see it, is it invisible?

But does it exist?

For instance, do atoms exist?

Yes

But you can actually see atoms (sort of, at least see that they are there)

If nobody can see it.

But does it exist?

For instance, do atoms exist? Nobody can see them.

Yes

But you can actually see atoms (sort of, at least see that they are there)

But not actually see them? You see traces that we refer to as "atoms having been there"?

'[I]Should you still have doubts about the existence of God, I want to tell
you that it would not be possible to have this perfect universe without
the guidance by an incredible intelligence, during its creation.

Perfection can only exist in comparison to something imperfect and as this theoretical imperfect alternate universe doesn't exist his point is illogical.


Just alone the existence of this harmonic, detailed world, held together by
perfect laws, is proof of the existence of God.

Opinion. Again how is the world harmonic? The vast majority of it is un-inhabitable, we can live here but we are constantly in competition with ourselves, other animals and even the planet itself in order to prolonge our survival. Is that really a harmonic world?


Do you really believe that the world is a random "error", as the scientists believe to be the cause for the "big bang", the creation of the world? Do you believe,

His inablitiy to comprehend the universe is not proof of a man made Deity. Additionally he is introducing a complex being from nothing, which is far more illogical than assuming a small simple entity came from nothing. Although I do not personally suscribe to this line of thought.


that further consequences of irregularities and errors caused the
creation of the world and the evolution all the way to the creation of
man?

What a foolish and incredibly homo-centrist view of the universe. It seems someone doesn't really understand the cold, random and directionless nature of evolution.


Your scientists say this. After the development of life, errors in
the genes caused mutations and this is supposed to be responsible
for the varieties of species. Do you not agree that this is even harder
to believe than the targeted, planned development according to
God's laws?

Micro evolution is absolutely proven beyond refute. There is no point even debating it.

http://www.channeling.net/channeling/path_of_light/index.htm

'Should you still have doubts about the existence of God, I want to tell
you that it would not be possible to have this perfect universe without
the guidance by an incredible intelligence, during its creation. Just
alone the existence of this harmonic, detailed world, held together by
perfect laws, is proof of the existence of God. Do you really believe
that the world is a random "error", as the scientists believe to be the
cause for the "big bang", the creation of the world? Do you believe,
that further consequences of irregularities and errors caused the
creation of the world and the evolution all the way to the creation of
man? Your scientists say this. After the development of life, errors in
the genes caused mutations and this is supposed to be responsible
for the varieties of species. Do you not agree that this is even harder
to believe than the targeted, planned development according to
God's laws?'

Obviously the person who said this uses the word 'God' and refers to God as 'he', but that could be somply because most people on earth refer to the Supreme Being as 'God' and as 'he', so it's easy to identify with. It doesn't necessarily mean that the Supreme Being is male.

Yes, I find it quite rational to say that everything exists by pure chance. If it all didn't happen, we wouldn't know that it didn't happen. We only know because it happened and it is all we know, despite the enormous odds against it.

http://www.channeling.net/channeling/path_of_light/index.htm

'Should you still have doubts about the existence of God, I want to tell
you that it would not be possible to have this perfect universe without
the guidance by an incredible intelligence, during its creation. Just
alone the existence of this harmonic, detailed world, held together by
perfect laws, is proof of the existence of God. Do you really believe
that the world is a random "error", as the scientists believe to be the
cause for the "big bang", the creation of the world? Do you believe,
that further consequences of irregularities and errors caused the
creation of the world and the evolution all the way to the creation of
man? Your scientists say this. After the development of life, errors in
the genes caused mutations and this is supposed to be responsible
for the varieties of species. Do you not agree that this is even harder
to believe than the targeted, planned development according to
God's laws?'

Obviously the person who said this uses the word 'God' and refers to God as 'he', but that could be somply because most people on earth refer to the Supreme Being as 'God' and as 'he', so it's easy to identify with. It doesn't necessarily mean that the Supreme Being is male.

That's not what scientists are saying, at all.

All scientists say is that the evidence points to these events happening. Scientifically, they make no assertion that they happen randomly.

This has been another edition of intelligent rebuttals to idiotic statements.

Yes, I find it quite rational to say that everything exists by pure chance. If it all didn't happen, we wouldn't know that it didn't happen. We only know because it happened and it is all we know, despite the enormous odds against it.

Eh, science makes no assertion of whether or not these things happened by chance, when you get down to it. It's basically "This happened. We know how it happened. We know why it happened. Whether or not it's chance or there is some supreme being is beyond the ability of science."

>The phrase was "invisible conspiracy"...

An interesting point. But a conspiracy is by definition invisible. If it was intended to be visible, we would call it an Alliance or a Coalition or an Organization or something else. So, if you reject the idea of an invisible conspiracy, it stands to reason that you reject the entire concept of conspiracy.

Which, carried to the extreme, would mean that you reject the hypothesis that is possible for two or more people to coordinate activities toward a common goal, in secrecy.

? ? ?

Ben

That is the most STUPID argument I have ever heard for God. And I have heard a few...
1) Define error. Error can only be defined by an estimable average. At the begginning, there is, by definition, no average.
2) In what way is the universe perfect?
3) The universe is only "perfect" (though such a word is stupid) to extent it needs to be to support intelligent life to observe it.
4) A creator does not need praying to JUST BECAUSE he is a creator. If I ever met him, I'd kill him. "Hey guys, I love you. But here I am, going to make half of you die (at least), countless others not exist, and if you don't obey me? I'll impale you only a pitchfork. I'm great, aren't I?"
5) If there IS a creator (this does not neccessarily include a god, but can), why doesn't he just come and say so, instead of letting us all fight each other.

There are more arguments, but this c*** doesn't deserve the effort.

No no no. You can believe in god, a god or gods.

I am talking about people who believe in imaginary invisible friends that create or break *everything*...

I am not an expert, but I am sure there's a label for such mental disease, no?

The term is Nutus Religous.

Perfect laws? Hmm, we can't even predict if a cat will die within the next hour or not! How can we then claim whether or not this world does have perfect laws?

Also, it is not strange that we should think us lucky for being in existence, because hey, if we were part of the 99,9% that didn't make it into existence, we wouldn't be thinking about how fortunate we were. (You always find things the last place you look, because searching after that would be stupid).

And no, I have seen extremely random things happen time and time again. I have yet to see any magic that wasn't illusion.

What would be more interesting to ask is: If there were a supreme being, would it be an illusionist?

Perfect laws? Hmm, we can't even predict if a cat will die within the next hour or not! How can we then claim whether or not this world does have perfect laws?

Doesn't that depend on the current condition of the cat? I mean, if he's sitting in the intake of a 747's engine, I can predict pretty well he's gonna be down one Life.

Doesn't that depend on the current condition of the cat? I mean, if he's sitting in the intake of a 747's engine, I can predict pretty well he's gonna be down one Life.

or a giant blender?

Perfect laws? Hmm, we can't even predict if a cat will die within the next hour or not! How can we then claim whether or not this world does have perfect laws?
But is that imperfect laws, the ones we've defined so far, or imperfect predictions? Don't the laws we have defined, like gravity, work all the time?

And no, I have seen extremely random things happen time and time again. I have yet to see any magic that wasn't illusion.

What would be more interesting to ask is: If there were a supreme being, would it be an illusionist?
Have you seen an illusion that wasn't magic, though?

But is that imperfect laws, the ones we've defined so far, or imperfect predictions? Don't the laws we have defined, like gravity, work all the time?


Have you seen an illusion that wasn't magic, though?

But the magic is the Illusion, so the illusion is magic which is an illusion.

Yeah, why are we supposed to believe that evolution was micromanaged by a higher force when there is so much evidence to the contrary? As a moral, therapeutic deist, I believe completely in God, but the idea that the human race is somehow so perfect that God hand-selected us is a little wild. Intelligence must be the eventual outcome of all evolution--look at how successful we, as the human race, are. We've conquered the Earth.

If you want "evidence" of God's intervention, look closer at the Big Bang. We have no idea why the universe exploded into existence out of sub-elementary-forces soup 13.6 billion years ago, but God's interference seems ax good a reason as any. Truth is, if we accept that God exists, you must admit that He or She clearly does not want to make it easy to know His or Her presence. As the wonderful, curious beingx we are, it is good and right for us to continue to search for answers to life's mysteries and for evidence of God, but as it stands, there is no conclusive scientific proof either way of an aloof Benefactor. If you believe in God, your faith, to be genuine, must come from your own intrapersonal meditation, not from semi-scientific, trumped up evidence (like the 700 Club's miracles or the media's global warming conspiracy)

God does exist. The apparent order of the universe has nothing to do with that, though.

The most we can say about that is that we have yet to find any data inconsistent with the hypothesis that there is a creator. Mind you, we also have theories that do not require a creator and those fit the data as well.

But the magic is the Illusion, so the illusion is magic which is an illusion.

:eek: I can't argue with that! I can't even follow it... heehee.

Would it be better or no to say that the magic is within the illusion? Then the illusion contains magic, but can retain its identity.

God does exist. The apparent order of the universe has nothing to do with that, though.

The most we can say about that is that we have yet to find any data inconsistent with the hypothesis that there is a creator. Mind you, we also have theories that do not require a creator and those fit the data as well.

I guess no one told you but the "God of the Gaps" is totally illogical.

God does exist.What evidence do you have to support this hypothesis?

The most we can say about that is that we have yet to find any data inconsistent with the hypothesis that there is a creator. Mind you, we also have theories that do not require a creator and those fit the data as well.

Nor have we found data inconsistent with the idea that invisible, intangible undetectable pink dragons are all around us.

I guess no one told you but the "God of the Gaps" is totally illogical.

It is! ...which is probably why Gift didn't use it.