NationStates Jolt Archive

Wake up and smell the obvious I suppose:

President George W Bush has warned a US withdrawal from Iraq could trigger the kind of upheaval seen in South East Asia after US forces quit Vietnam.

"The price of America's withdrawal was paid by millions of innocent citizens," he told war veterans in Missouri.

Mr Bush said the Vietnam War had taught the need for US patience over Iraq.

His speech comes amid an apparent rift with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Maliki, but Mr Bush said Mr Maliki was a "good man with a difficult job".

Hours earlier, Mr Maliki called recent US criticism of his work "discourteous".

The White House was swift to respond, saying in a statement that Mr Bush still believes that Mr Maliki is the right person to lead Iraq

Mr Bush began his speech at the annual convention for the Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW) group, in Kansas City, by flagging up US successes in staying the distance in other conflicts - particularly in turning Japan from an enemy into a key ally.

Legacy of defeat

"The ideals and interests that led America to help the Japanese turn defeat into democracy are the same that lead us to remain engaged in Afghanistan and Iraq," Mr Bush said.

"The defence strategy that refused to hand the South Koreans over to a totalitarian neighbour helped raise up an Asian Tiger that is a model for developing countries across the world, including the Middle East."

Mr Bush compared current calls for withdrawal from Iraq with what happened at the end of the Vietnam War in 1975.

"Many argued that if we pulled out, there would be no consequences for the Vietnamese people," Mr Bush said. "The world would learn just how costly these misimpressions would be.

"Three decades later, there is a legitimate debate about how we got into the Vietnam War and how we left.

"Whatever your position in that debate, one unmistakable legacy of Vietnam is that the price of America's withdrawal was paid by millions of innocent citizens," Mr Bush said, mentioning reprisals against US allies in Vietnam, the displacement of Vietnamese refugees and the massacres in Cambodia under Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge.

He warned that in Iraq there was the added danger that a US withdrawal would signal victory for al-Qaeda, emboldening its leaders and drawing in new recruits.

In other news in Iraq:

* Fourteen US soldiers were killed when a Black Hawk helicopter in which they were travelling crashed in northern Iraq. The military said a mechanical fault was to blame.

* At least 20 people were killed and 50 injured when a suicide bomber rammed a fuel tanker into a police station in the northern oil city of Baiji.

* The deputy US commander in Iraq told the BBC that the US had recruited 20,000 civilian volunteers to act as local police in sensitive areas of the country.

'Seeking friends elsewhere'

Mr Bush's speech came as Mr Maliki was moved to defend his administration in the face of US criticism.

"No-one has the right to place timetables" on the Iraqi government's performance Mr Maliki said, blaming the US presidential election campaign for many of the negative comments being made.

Speaking at the end of a visit to Syria, he said Iraq would pay no attention and could "find friends elsewhere".

On Tuesday, Mr Bush had appeared to distance himself from Mr Maliki's government for the first time.

Mr Bush said the people of Iraq had made a great step towards reconciliation. However he added that there was "a certain level of frustration with the leadership" of Mr Maliki and that his government now had to perform.

Guess he's finally figured out we're in a Vietnam scale cluster fuck.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6958824.stm

It just has to be said...

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Image:2ndvietnam.jpg

Didn't he say we shouldn't compare the two wars?

Iraq is nothing like Vietnam! Vietnam is long and thin and consists of mountaious regions interspersed with low wetlands. Iraq is wide and pudgy and slightly triangular in shape with dry steppes in the north and a long thin fertile flood plain spanning the central and souther regions.

:p

Didn't he say we shouldn't compare the two wars?

Repeatedly.

Yes they are similar, yes they both suck, but the situation isn't nearly as bad as Vietnam.

Vietnam: 58,209 US KIA

Total deaths: 5,400,000

Iraq: 3,707 US KIA

Total deaths at the moment: 654,965

Yes they are similar, yes they both suck, but the situation isn't nearly as bad as Vietnam.

Vietnam: 58,209 US KIA

Total deaths: 5,400,000

Iraq: 3,707 US KIA

Total deaths at the moment: 654,965

Which of course does not take into account that medical technology and techniques have significantly advanced since Vietnam and troops that would have been dead years ago are now instead surviving with numerous disabilities and finding out just how much Beloved Dear Leader really supports them in terms of medical benefits.

Which of course does not take into account that medical technology and techniques have significantly advanced since Vietnam and troops that would have been dead years ago are now instead surviving with numerous disabilities and finding out just how much Beloved Dear Leader really supports them in terms of medical benefits.Ack! Both my parents and two of my siblings were in the army. While the folks at the Veterans Administration hospital couldn't be nicer and the doctors are very qualified, the system as a whole sucks. Not enough money or personel, too much bureaucracy.

And the whole thing is very male-centric. My mother and sister were in the army, but asking for something as simple as a female gynecoligist throws them for a loop. My mother has repeated had to wait in the emergency room for long periods so a "female" room could be found. And when she had to have surgery one time she was put into a locked room on the psyche ward because they had no other private room.

Iraq is nothing like Vietnam! Vietnam is long and thin and consists of mountaious regions interspersed with low wetlands. Iraq is wide and pudgy and slightly triangular in shape with dry steppes in the north and a long thin fertile flood plain spanning the central and souther regions.

:p
Ah, but it must be more evil - Darth Vader lives next door.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2e/Satellite_image_of_Kuwait_in_November_2001.jpg/350px-Satellite_image_of_Kuwait_in_November_2001.jpg
http://www.backstreetmerch.com/images/products/films/misc/swar/swar84_thumb.gif
http://www.typophile.com/files/Interrobang_5113.png

Wake up and smell the obvious I suppose:



Guess he's finally figured out we're in a Vietnam scale cluster fuck.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6958824.stm
It is just another one of Dubya's "misimpressions". :D

I'm back in North Dakota now, which means AM radio until NPR starts All Things Considered at 4pm. As such, I occasionally listen to Rush, Hannity and the like in order to hear what the Right is yammering about this week. Rush was practically masturbating to Bush's speech -- saying that Bush kicked ass with this paper-thin assertion about Vietnam.

Thing is, what the fuck would Bush know about Vietnam? Aside from barely making his National Guard obligation (or wherever that story is now), Bush was kinda into drugs and booze at that point in his life and was until he was 40 and in danger of being left by Laura (Barbara Bush, God love her and her patience, was the main impetus in straightening W out). Bush talking about Vietnam would be like Jimi Hendrix making a speech on civil rights when he was alive. Sure he was an influential musician, but the man was chronically high.

He's also dead wrong about Vietnam. The US presence provided the two main factions with an invading target to focus on. Once we were gone, guess what? They messed with each other for a while until they realized that it was more in everyone's best interest not to kill each other (a broad oversimplification, but all I have time for). Senator Joseph Biden (who will likely be SecState with a D win in 2009) is correct when he calls US troops in Iraq "targets". The Kurds don't have much reason to fuck with us, but the Sunnis and Shi'ites do, and they certainly will as long as we're there.

So what Bush is basically saying is that we need our soldiers to keep being targets in order for the factions to not kill one another? Fuck that. Bush is grasping at straws as the rats in his sinking ship desert him left and right. If it didn't involve the continued loss of US lives, it would be funny. Now it's just plain frustrating.

Wake up and smell the obvious I suppose:



Guess he's finally figured out we're in a Vietnam scale cluster fuck.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6958824.stm

Amazing what happens when the "turd blossom di tutti turd blossoms" doesn't speak through him.

The comparisons between Vietnam and Bushnam are many. Unfortunately they are also all negative starting with the lie that got us into both.

The difference is will we keep killing for the fun of killing and dieing or do we take another road?

Another difference is what happens after? Pulling out of Vietnam was the best thing that happened in the entire history of Vietnam. Even considering the immediate killing at the fall. I can't say that will be true this time. The Vietnamese weren't going to set up world wide terror groups. It seems regardless of what we do in Bushnam the world will be worse and more dangerous than before we entered.

I've said on this site many times, the best thing would be to find another Saddam, arm him to the teeth, turn our heads and allow him to restore order.

Repeatedly.

Just like he repeatedly stated that Iraq had something or other to do with the Twin Tower attacks on 9/11.


But remember ... it was Kerry who was the "flip-flopper". :rolleyes:

Just like he repeatedly stated that Iraq had something or other to do with the Twin Tower attacks on 9/11.


But remember ... it was Kerry who was the "flip-flopper". :rolleyes:

All politicians flip flop. Some take longer to flip and flop.

All politicians flip flop. Some take longer to flip and flop.

Note he doesn't so much spawn as writhe!
:p

"The ideals and interests that led America to help the Japanese turn defeat into democracy are the same that lead us to remain engaged in Afghanistan and Iraq," Mr Bush said.

Too bad the Japanese culture provided an entirely different occupational atmosphere than anything we'll ever see out of a majority Muslim nation


No-one has the right to place timetables" on the Iraqi government's performance Mr Maliki said

http://atdpweb.berkeley.edu/brokenlogic/images/trippin.jpg

Speaking at the end of a visit to Syria, he said Iraq would pay no attention and could "find friends elsewhere".

Please do...

...let me know how many troops they send to die on your streets while you pretend to work.

I've said on this site many times, the best thing would be to find another Saddam, arm him to the teeth, turn our heads and allow him to restore order.

And when he fucks up they can let the Iraqis hang him.

And when he fucks up they can let the Iraqis hang him.

As long as it's the Iraqi people that make that decision and not a puppet government.

When was the last time America actually won a war...............

When was the last time America actually won a war...............

Nice try.

When was the last time America actually won a war...............

Where the hell is that flamethrower?!!! :rolleyes:

There's a key difference between Iraq and Vietnam: in Vietnam, Bush had an exit strategy.

And for those of you who think KERRY is the flipflopper, have you ever LISTENED to Bush? You need to take a long, hard look at http://www.idrewthis.org/d/20040416.html

I think George 'I protected the skies of Texas from the Vietcong' Bush should leave history to the historians and he can stick to being stupid. It's even funnier that he chose a overwhelmingly GOP state and hand-picked audience of yes-men who applaud on time, but what's sad is that real veterans would support this coward who never fought.

Yeah, and the other day he compared Japan to Iraq, as well, talking about how great Japan's democracy is and how it will be the same for Iraq some say. Only problem is, Japan isn't anything like Iraq for a number of reasons and even if it were, Japan's democracy isn't exactly stellar.
It would probably have been better to point to Germany. Point would have still been asinine.

It's even funnier that he chose a overwhelmingly GOP state and hand-picked audience of yes-men who applaud on time,
http://www.yourleaders.org/george_w_bushs_presidential_advance_manual
but what's sad is that real veterans would support this coward who never fought.Sad, somewhat. Travesty, absolutely. Shameful, evermoreso.

I think George 'I protected the skies of Texas from the Vietcong' Bush should leave history to the historians and he can stick to being stupid. It's even funnier that he chose a overwhelmingly GOP state and hand-picked audience of yes-men who applaud on time, but what's sad is that real veterans would support this coward who never fought.

Just one point. Missouri is about 51-49. But of course as usual only supporters were allowed in.

Well, I suppose he can only live in his bubble for so long until the oxygen ran out.

Reality has to set in some time.

Well, I suppose he can only live in his bubble for so long until the oxygen ran out.

Reality has to set in some time.

By "Reality", you mean, of course, agonizing, painful, humiliating death?

Just askin'.

Just one point. Missouri is about 51-49. But of course as usual only supporters were allowed in.

Sorry, my mistake then, I don't update on US politics as much as I should, I always though of Missouri as a strong GOP state is all.

http://www.yourleaders.org/george_w_bushs_presidential_advance_manual
Sad, somewhat. Travesty, absolutely. Shameful, evermoreso.

It's even worse that veterans spoke against Kerry.

Did Kerry do everything he said he did? More than likely no.

At least he wasn't lowest coward alive(I hold Draft Dodgers much, much, much higher than Bush's little cowardice in joining the military only to have daddy pull some strings to get out of it when he was looking at actually serving).

They spoke out against someone who actually served... yet someone who didn't(And used his daddy to do it) when he should have is so much better.

Bush: Fighting America's Enemies by letting everyone else do the fighting.

It's even worse that veterans spoke against Kerry.

Did Kerry do everything he said he did? More than likely no.

At least he wasn't lowest coward alive(I hold Draft Dodgers much, much, much higher than Bush's little cowardice in joining the military only to have daddy pull some strings to get out of it when he was looking at actually serving).

They spoke out against someone who actually served... yet someone who didn't(And used his daddy to do it) when he should have is so much better.

Bush: Fighting America's Enemies by letting everyone else do the fighting.QFT.
*bows*

Sorry, my mistake then, I don't update on US politics as much as I should, I always though of Missouri as a strong GOP state is all.

No problem. I thought you probably got Kansas City confused with the state of Kansas. Kansas City (most of it) is in Missouri. But a good number of suburbs are in Kansas. Missouri tends to be a swing state. Kansas (outside of the Kansas City suburbs) is universally GOP.

Hope that helps.