NationStates Jolt Archive

Twins, times two, born to Calgary mother (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20070817.QUADS17/TPStory)

Recently some Canadian parents had to come to the United States to have their identical quadruplets delivered.

Why?

Because there wasn't a single high-level NICU unit in all of Canada available to them.

Where did they go instead?

To Great Falls, Montana - the 363rd biggest urban area in the US. That is about 65,000 people.

How can someone claim that Canada has a superior health care system to the US when they could not be accommodated in the entire country of Canada, but were taken care of in a relatively small city here?

Oh, and if you think it is a one-time kind of thing don't overlook this part of the article:

"With no beds available in their home province or nearby, expectant mothers going into labour before 32 weeks gestation (when babies need the highest level of neonatal intensive care) are often sent by air ambulance to hospitals in Washington, Montana, Michigan and New York.

In Alberta, at least five pregnant women were transferred to Montana this year."


Also, note that this is a Canadian Newspaper. (Their slogan is even "Canada's National Newspaper.")

Stupid post delay - my account got deleted while I was on vacation, and now with the new account delay by the time it posted this thread it was already on the third page... :mad:

Yes, there is a doctor shortage in Canada.

Still, as a Canadian I'm very happy with the standard of health care I receive here.

I gave birth in January, and granted my son wasn't premature, but the care was wonderful, and the cost was $0.00.

From my conversations with pregnant women in the U.S.A., even those with health coverage often end up paying thousands of dollars to give birth.

I'd rather have our Socialized health care, even with the wait times, than worry that I'll get turned away from a U.S. hospital, or have to mortgage my house to pay for my bills.

5 women from Alberta is an infinitesimal percentage of women who gave birth there from January-August. That's hardly an indictment of our health care system.

C.

Twins, times two, born to Calgary mother (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20070817.QUADS17/TPStory)

Recently some Canadian parents had to come to the United States to have their identical quadruplets delivered.

Why?

Because there wasn't a single high-level NICU unit in all of Canada available to them.

Where did they go instead?

To Great Falls, Montana - the 363rd biggest urban area in the US. That is about 65,000 people.

How can someone claim that Canada has a superior health care system to the US when they could not be accommodated in the entire country of Canada, but were taken care of in a relatively small city here?

Oh, and if you think it is a one-time kind of thing don't overlook this part of the article:

"With no beds available in their home province or nearby, expectant mothers going into labour before 32 weeks gestation (when babies need the highest level of neonatal intensive care) are often sent by air ambulance to hospitals in Washington, Montana, Michigan and New York.

In Alberta, at least five pregnant women were transferred to Montana this year."


Also, note that this is a Canadian Newspaper. (Their slogan is even "Canada's National Newspaper.")

So America takes a few pregnant women from Canada every year. That doesn't seem very newsworthy.

So America takes a few pregnant women from Canada every year. That doesn't seem very newsworthy.

Oh, but it is. Don't you know that if one thing goes a little wrong, it proves how evil the whole thing is and negates anything good about it?:rolleyes:

So America takes a few pregnant women from Canada every year. That doesn't seem very newsworthy.

I bet the news doesn't cover how much they are paying out their ass.


Also let's ignore that there is beginning to be a doctor shortage in the US, and that is ignoring the shortage of general practitioners.

Canada doesn't have a NICU? Honestly I'm surprised and a bit appalled.

Also let's ignore that there is beginning to be a doctor shortage in the US, and that is ignoring the shortage of general practitioners.
Is it because of the lawsuits? Has the number of people entering medical school decreasing?

Is it because of the lawsuits? Has the number of people entering medical school decreasing?

My mom's doctor had to leave because of insurance costs. Fucking lawsuits.

Canada doesn't have a NICU? Honestly I'm surprised and a bit appalled.

Yes, we do have plenty of NICU's.

In the article it states that the NICU was full due to an unexpected number of premature births at the hospital at that time, and that none of the others was able to take in four preemies at the same time.

C.

Has the number of people entering medical school decreasing?
Yes and no. The medical schools have been arbitrarily limiting the number of people allowed into medical schools for years to prevent a flood of doctors and it is leading to a shortage.

And the general practitioner shortage is because you can either be a general practitioner and make X for working Y hours or become a specialist and work Y/4 hours and make 10X. The private healthcare system is exasperating the problem.

Yes, we do have plenty of NICU's.

In the article it states that the NICU was full due to an unexpected number of premature births at the hospital at that time, and that none of the others was able to take in four preemies at the same time.

C.

I would also like to add that there were probably neonatal intensive care units available elsewhere in Canada, but they were probably much farther away than Montana. A quick glance at a map of North America will confirm this.

The article also neglects to mention that the Canadian heathcare system paid for this woman to have birth in the US. It may not have been the ideal solution, but she was able to have access to the health care she needed for herself and her children at no cost to her. I don't see how the system failed her.

My mom's doctor had to leave because of insurance costs. Fucking lawsuits.
Well that's the situation I am hearing.

Yes and no. The medical schools have been arbitrarily limiting the number of people allowed into medical schools for years to prevent a flood of doctors and it is leading to a shortage.
Well maybe they can't train a huge number of people, but I'm still wondering whether interest in the medical field is still fine and there aren't to many people turned away by the situation.

And the general practitioner shortage is because you can either be a general practitioner and make X for working Y hours or become a specialist and work Y/4 hours and make 10X. The private healthcare system is exasperating the problem.
I don't see how the private healthcare system is exasperating the problem... care to explain?

Ah. Market laws. 'course people go to a place with a higher pay. But soon there'll be a trade-off. There'll be too many doctors for the too few patients in a field, and so they'll be forced to seek other more esoteric specialties and sub-specialties.

and yet if you look at a map it was probably only sheer chance that the nearest unit available was in the US, especially if all those in Calgary and Edmonton were in use. after that the nearest Candadian large settlement is a very long way away.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h211/infiniterevolution/calgarytoGF.jpg

I gave birth in January, and granted my son wasn't premature, but the care was wonderful, and the cost was $0.00.


If only that were true. What about the thousands of dollars all of us Canadians have taken from us in taxes?

I would also like to add that there were probably neonatal intensive care units available elsewhere in Canada, but they were probably much farther away than Montana. A quick glance at a map of North America will confirm this.

The article also neglects to mention that the Canadian heathcare system paid for this woman to have birth in the US. It may not have been the ideal solution, but she was able to have access to the health care she needed for herself and her children at no cost to her. I don't see how the system failed her.

It failed because it's evil Socialism.:rolleyes:

Canada's healthcare "system" is superior. Not necessarily the quality of our hospitals or doctors. Canada's "system" is better because treatment doesn't depend on how big your wallet is. Doctors are paid for by the government. If you want to know why the staff in American hospitals are more skilled, maybe it's because the American hostipals pay more to doctors than the Canadian government can. In the end, it's all money. At least... i <i>think</i> that's how it works. But i don't know that much about it.

If only that were true. What about the thousands of dollars all of us Canadians have taken from us in taxes?

I'm not sure what tax bracket you're in, I pay roughly 20% in income tax. For me, that's more than worth it to have the kind of health care we enjoy. I've heard of bills in the tens and sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars for premature births or other ailments in the U.S.A., a few thousands paid yearly in taxes is worth not facing ruination from a hefty hospital bill.

C.

This just provides more proof that a private healthcare industry combined with a universal government health insurance program is the best way to ensure high quality care for all Americans. Neither the state-run system nor the market-driven system provide anywhere near optimal care.

This just provides more proof that a private healthcare industry combined with a universal government health insurance program is the best way to ensure high quality care for all Americans. Neither the state-run system nor the market-driven system provide anywhere near optimal care.
Just don't let program go awry. It can cost real much, especially if the private health care cost too much. But essentially, I agree.

This just provides more proof

Nope, you fail.

If only that were true. What about the thousands of dollars all of us Canadians have taken from us in taxes?

It is a small sum to pay in comparison to how much we would pay in private insurance. I pay about $300 in income tax each month. I get about $2400 back each year. That comes to $100 a month. With that, I get access to all the goverment services like police, roads, mail delivery, infrastructure, etc, as well as almost complete medical coverage.

I don't think I could get medical insurance with the same coverage for $100 a month. And I would still have to pay that amount in taxes.

I'm not sure what tax bracket you're in, I pay roughly 20% in income tax. For me, that's more than worth it to have the kind of health care we enjoy. I've heard of bills in the tens and sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars for premature births or other ailments in the U.S.A., a few thousands paid yearly in taxes is worth not facing ruination from a hefty hospital bill.

C.

QFT

This just provides more proof that a private healthcare industry combined with a universal government health insurance program is the best way to ensure high quality care for all Americans. Neither the state-run system nor the market-driven system provide anywhere near optimal care.

Some of Canada's hospitals are operated by the provinces, but many other hospitals and clinics are also privately run, but are just paid for by the government.

Nope, you fail.

Then explain to me why this is a systemic problem in the Canadian healthcare system.

Then explain to me why this is a systemic problem in the Canadian healthcare system.

I fail to see where the problem is. A woman needed medical care. The government provided it. Where's the problem?

Regardless, my hip and spine surgery is going to be a bitch.

Then explain to me why this is a systemic problem in the Canadian healthcare system.

I see no systemic problem. The woman got care. So what if it's in another country? The hospital I'm doing my training at has a highly specialised burn victim unit, for instance, and it regularly has patients from the other Scandinavian countries helicoptered there. Their own national health services pay for it. I don't see the problem in that.

Then explain to me why this is a systemic problem in the Canadian healthcare system.

Explain how this constitutes a "systemic" problem.

I see no systemic problem. The woman got care. So what if it's in another country? The hospital I'm doing my training at has a highly specialised burn victim unit, for instance, and it regularly has patients from the other Scandinavian countries helicoptered there. Their own national health services pay for it. I don't see the problem in that.

We have the same situation in South Australia. There is a unit at the Royal Adelaide Hospital that carries out facial reconstruction surgery, and this service has expanded into Indonesia, China, Fiji, Kuwait and other countries. And its all thanks to evil pinko commie ideal of free socialised healthcare.

:p

So America takes a few pregnant women from Canada every year. That doesn't seem very newsworthy.

Doesn't that make the kids Americans? United States of Americans, that is? Wow, what a sneaky trick to get access to the greatest country on Earth... I thought only the Mexicans knew about that trick.

Since they are citizens of the U.S. by birth, are they still Canadian citizens, too?

Doesn't that make the kids Americans? United States of Americans, that is? Wow, what a sneaky trick to get access to the greatest country on Earth... I thought only the Mexicans knew about that trick.

Since they are citizens of the U.S. by birth, are they still Canadian citizens, too?

Because their parents are Canadian, and their permanent home is Canada, they will be naturalised Canadians.

Doesn't that make the kids Americans? United States of Americans, that is? Wow, what a sneaky trick to get access to the greatest country on Earth... I thought only the Mexicans knew about that trick.

Since they are citizens of the U.S. by birth, are they still Canadian citizens, too?

Yeah! Who do they think they are? Those Canadians are always sneaking across the border to have kids here so they can sponge off our welfare, damn snowbacks!:rolleyes:

Yeah! Who do they think they are? Those Canadians are always sneaking across the border to have kids here so they can sponge of our welfare, damn snowbacks!:rolleyes:

Snowbacks is the best ethnic slur ever.

Snowbacks is the best ethnic slur ever.

Thank you. *bows*