NationStates Jolt Archive

Well I was browsing stories on the BBC news website as I often do when bored and I came across this piece:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6954778.stm

Which is a pretty interesting read and this subject of "stepping in" has been in the news recently.

In regards to the situation he describes in the article and more in general, what would you have done or what would you like to think you would have done?

He's six foot three, his muscles are so big they're flexing against the Tube glass
To be honest I can't see me stepping in on my own to save this guy from a 6ft3 barbarian.. I don't know him and he did provoke the man with the V-sign.

However speaking more generally would you step in to aid someone (you don't know) being the victim of assault? I think I would, it just depends on the circumstances. In regards to friends and family though, of curse I would do all I can to help.

Only 6'3? I'd pat him on the head and tell him to come back when he's big enough to ride with the big kids.

Well I was browsing stories on the BBC news website as I often do when bored and I came across this piece:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6954778.stm

Which is a pretty interesting read and this subject of "stepping in" has been in the news recently.

In regards to the situation he describes in the article and more in general, what would you have done or what would you like to think you would have done?


To be honest I can't see me stepping in on my own to save this guy from a 6ft3 barbarian.. I don't know him and he did provoke the man with the V-sign.

However speaking more generally would you step in to aid someone (you don't know) being the victim of assault? I think I would, it just depends on the circumstances. In regards to friends and family though, of curse I would do all I can to help.

I think its one of those spur of the moment decisions. If you see something and have to think about it, you're probably going to be in two minds about it, and may end up doing nothing.

Well I was browsing stories on the BBC news website as I often do when bored and I came across this piece:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6954778.stm

Which is a pretty interesting read and this subject of "stepping in" has been in the news recently.

In regards to the situation he describes in the article and more in general, what would you have done or what would you like to think you would have done?


To be honest I can't see me stepping in on my own to save this guy from a 6ft3 barbarian.. I don't know him and he did provoke the man with the V-sign.

However speaking more generally would you step in to aid someone (you don't know) being the victim of assault? I think I would, it just depends on the circumstances. In regards to friends and family though, of curse I would do all I can to help.

6'3"? Size isn't everything. When I was young, slender and fit, I had a 6'3", 200 lb boyfriend who was a football (American) player. I used to beat him arm wrestling on a regular basis - he didn't let me, I just knew some tricks. And I probably would step in - first I'd call 911 on my ever-present cell phone, then I'd use the fact that I'm a little old lady to my advantage, no man can stand the humiliation of having either to beat up a little old lady or retreat before her.

I think its one of those spur of the moment decisions. If you see something and have to think about it, you're probably going to be in two minds about it, and may end up doing nothing.

Yeah I agree with you. You really don't know what you would do until it happens.

old lady to my advantage, no man can stand the humiliation of having either to beat up a little old lady or retreat before her.

sadly some man have beaten up little old ladys

6'3"? Size isn't everything. When I was young, slender and fit, I had a 6'3", 200 lb boyfriend who was a football (American) player. I used to beat him arm wrestling on a regular basis - he didn't let me, I just knew some tricks. And I probably would step in - first I'd call 911 on my ever-present cell phone, then I'd use the fact that I'm a little old lady to my advantage, no man can stand the humiliation of having either to beat up a little old lady or retreat before her.

There are a myriad of ways to beat a physically larger opponent, particularly when he's distracted.

Sleeper hold is a good non-permanent injury way. Hop up on his back, lock your legs around him and put him down. Works pretty well, though he can counter by slamming backward into a wall. Or if close enough to a ceiling jumping.

A more, violent, way of dealing with it is a sharp kick to the side of the knee. It'll probably shatter and the lummox will drop like a ton of bricks. Even if it doesn't break he's going down. Problem is this is probably a very serious injury in terms of long term damage.

There's also of course pressure points if you know how to use them, and I once saw a guy end a fight with one punch to the throat. Not sure how he did it or what he hit but his opponent dropped and was out cold for 20 minutes.

A number of years ago and acquaintance and I were leaving a Florida bar in the wee hours when we saw a young woman being forcibly stuffed into a car by four guys. We jumped right in, though I did arm myself with a two foot long pipe fitting tool from my trunk. We at least held them off until the barmaid called the cops.


BTW, what in the hell is a V sign?


If it looks like intervening is suicide I at least call the cops. I do admit to being a bit drunk when the above incident happened. Liquid courage.

BTW, what in the hell is a V sign?


Two fingers raised in the same way as giving the middle finger

Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_sign)

The insulting version of the gesture (with the palm inwards) is often compared to the offensive gesture known as "the finger". The "two-fingered salute", or "bowfinger", as it is also known, is commonly performed by flicking the V upwards from wrist or elbow. "The finger" is traceable to Roman times [6], but may be unrelated in origin, as the insulting V sign is largely restricted to the UK, Ireland, Australia and New Zealand. United States president George H. W. Bush once gave the insulting V sign to onlookers while touring Australia, unaware of what it meant to Australians[5].


The V sign, when the palm is facing toward the person giving the sign, has long been an insulting gesture in England and later in the rest of the United Kingdom. It is frequently used to signify defiance (particularly of authority), contempt or derision and is often accompanied with a verbal phrase like "fuck off"

A number of years ago and acquaintance and I were leaving a Florida bar in the wee hours when we saw a young woman being forcibly stuffed into a car by four guys. We jumped right in, though I did arm myself with a two foot long pipe fitting tool from my trunk. We at least held them off until the barmaid called the cops.


BTW, what in the hell is a V sign?


If it looks like intervening is suicide I at least call the cops. I do admit to being a bit drunk when the above incident happened. Liquid courage.

http://www.ieee-virtual-museum.org/media/O7Cz4iyQHf0F.jpg

http://www.ieee-virtual-museum.org/media/O7Cz4iyQHf0F.jpg

Not quite. The sentiment is completely different when the palm is facing the target

And I probably would step in - first I'd call 911 on my ever-present cell phone

Which almost certainly wouldn't work on the London Underground, I'm afraid (although I think they're considering underground transmitters or something to help on some of the lines).

I have no idea what I'd do (or if I'd do anything) in such a situation. Probably would depend on my mood.

If it was some person i did not know I wouldn't step in. As sad as it sounds but why should i care for those people, i don't know them and they're just paying the consequence for their actions.

If it was some person i did not know I wouldn't step in. As sad as it sounds but why should i care for those people, i don't know them and they're just paying the consequence for their actions.

Remind yourself of that when you are the one in danger and no-one will go out of their way to help you

It would be situational of course. I have intervened a couple of times outside of school when I saw a teen being beaten, or threatened by another group of teens. It was rather scary though, and I did pause and think, "am I going to get hurt here?". The one time, I had my children with me, and I seriously considered passing by...I had their safety to consider as well. I made a judgement call...at this point, the teen was being threatened, but no actual violence had started. I was hoping...really hoping, that the presence of me, and my children, would give the five teens facing him enough pause that I could get him out of there. In hindsight, I'm not sure it was the wisest thing to do, but I was able to get him, and us to my house. In the second instance, I actually came across a teen who was down on the ground, being kicked by three others...two of which were girls. My instant reaction was to scare them off...I yelled as loud as I could for them to get away (we were in an alley) and hoped that the noise would attract neighbours. They were slow to leave...they give him a few more kicks until I got closer and then they ran. I had to take him to the hospital to get stiches in his face. I called his parents who arrived absolutely horrified at his condition, and very grateful for my intervention. He, on the other hand, didn't seem so confident that my help was going to solve anything. Apparently the bullying had been going on for a long time, had been reported at school and so on.

As a teacher, we were always told NOT to intevene in fights...that we were not to put our safety at risk unless we were sure we would be alright...we were to get administration or the school cop to deal with it, but I only obeyed that order once. In that situation, the kid was totally out of control...he wasn't actually targetting any single person, he was throwing desks, punching the wall, freaking out. I got all the rest of the students out of the room and locked the door behind me. Most of the times I came across an actual fight I was able to stop it without any physical contact on my part...I got rid of the crowd first, which helped to slow down the fight, and then ordered the participants to stop on threat of blah blah blah. Luckily it worked. A few times, however, I've had to physically restrain a student...in both cases, females larger than me, and I've gotten an elbow in the face, I've gotten slammed back against a locker, and I've had the back of a head smashed into my face. In all cases it was accidental contact...the second they hit me, they stopped fighting and were freaking out and apologising. Still.

On the street...well, I'm not going to count on my 'authority'. If I can not physically intervene, even just shouting up a storm and drawing attention to the incident can help. But yes...intervening can be very dangerous, and it does give me pause. I'm not sure what I'd do on a dark night, alone in the street, coming across violence, other than running the fuck away and calling the cops. And keep in mind...I've been scrapping it out since I was in elementary school...I'm no stranger to fights or to violence, unfortunately.

If it was some person i did not know I wouldn't step in. As sad as it sounds but why should i care for those people, i don't know them and they're just paying the consequence for their actions.

Oh spare me. It's one thing to acknowledge that you wouldn't step in. It's quite another to claim that the person deserves whatever they get.

BTW, what in the hell is a V sign?
V-Sign Suicidal Bunny (http://www.uberg33k.com/albums/bunnies/0139lr.sized.jpg)

There's also of course pressure points if you know how to use them, and I once saw a guy end a fight with one punch to the throat. Not sure how he did it or what he hit but his opponent dropped and was out cold for 20 minutes.

I don't think that counts as a pressure point exactly

There's also of course pressure points if you know how to use them, and I once saw a guy end a fight with one punch to the throat. Not sure how he did it or what he hit but his opponent dropped and was out cold for 20 minutes.

Probably nailed him in the windpipe. Cut off air flow.

There is this odd place in the mall around here that dresses up and puts makeup on little girls to take pictures of them all pretty and princess-y, and I always see one, two, maybe three older men standing at the entrance looking in. It's disgusting.

But this one particular man seemed to have his eye on one particular girl, so I was standing to the side watching this guy because I thought something was up. My suspicions were absolutely right because when the right moment came up, he grabbed that girl and tried to take her, but I yelled something along the lines of "HE'S TAKING HER!" and random people looked and started to pummel him.

Awesomeness.

On another note, WTF why would any parent take their child to a place like that? And why isn't there more security around to watch for gross pedophiles which are ALWAYS standing by the entrance with their little peeving eyes?

I don't think that counts as a pressure point exactly

I don't think it does either, but it was by far the coolest way I've seen to end a fight. Just whack and he's down. :D

Though carting the unconscious guy away from the scene of the fight and watching him til he woke up was kinda suck.

On the Underground its simple to have someone taken down .3 little words...

HES GOT A BOMB!!!! Double Tap will probably follow.

Well I was browsing stories on the BBC news website as I often do when bored and I came across this piece:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6954778.stm

Which is a pretty interesting read and this subject of "stepping in" has been in the news recently.

In regards to the situation he describes in the article and more in general, what would you have done or what would you like to think you would have done?


To be honest I can't see me stepping in on my own to save this guy from a 6ft3 barbarian.. I don't know him and he did provoke the man with the V-sign.

However speaking more generally would you step in to aid someone (you don't know) being the victim of assault? I think I would, it just depends on the circumstances. In regards to friends and family though, of curse I would do all I can to help.

If I knew why he was doing it, and if I knew the guy being attacked didn't deserve it, I'd intervene, but I'm big enough to take on this 6'3 Barbarian, and have the training to disable him relatively quickly ;)

*snip* You sigged the same line as me :D

I so totally did, it seems!

And me! I was first!

Oh spare me. It's one thing to acknowledge that you wouldn't step in. It's quite another to claim that the person deserves whatever they get.

What i'm trying to get across is that if that man didn't make that v-sign in the first place then that man wouldn't have kicked the crap out of him and there wouldn't have been such a scene. Unfortunately the man did make that sign and he paid the price for it.

Oh spare me. It's one thing to acknowledge that you wouldn't step in. It's quite another to claim that the person deserves whatever they get.

What i'm trying to get across is that if that man didn't make that v-sign in the first place then that man wouldn't have kicked the crap out of him and there wouldn't have been such a scene. Unfortunately the man did make that sign and he paid the price for it.

What i'm trying to get across is that if that man didn't make that v-sign in the first place then that man wouldn't have kicked the crap out of him and there wouldn't have been such a scene. Unfortunately the man did make that sign and he paid the price for it.

So flipping someone off is an offense worthy of having your head bashed in? Wiggy.

You shouldn't always try to play the hero unless you actually think you stand a chance. I did once, and ended up getting kicked in.

What i'm trying to get across is that if that man didn't make that v-sign in the first place then that man wouldn't have kicked the crap out of him and there wouldn't have been such a scene. Unfortunately the man did make that sign and he paid the price for it.

Getting beaten around the head is ok for giving someon the fingers? Bull.

So flipping someone off is an offense worthy of having your head bashed in? Wiggy.
No it isn't and i agree with you on that but he wouldn't have had his head bashed in if he didn't make the v-sign in the first place, thus he paid the price for his actions.

So flipping someone off is an offense worthy of having your head bashed in? Wiggy.

Getting beaten around the head is ok for giving someon the fingers? Bull.

I never said it was okay, don't twist my words. What i'm trying to say is if he didn't make the sign in the first place the whole thing wouldn't have happened. Yes i agree that no one deserves to get their head smashed for something like that and yes i agree that the "thug" man was overreacting. If you're gonna do something that you know is gonna upset someone then you should be ready to pay the consequences.

no man can stand the humiliation of having either to beat up a little old lady or retreat before her.

You're kidding, right? Thugs like the one in the article have no such qualms.

Well I was browsing stories on the BBC news website as I often do when bored and I came across this piece:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6954778.stm

Which is a pretty interesting read and this subject of "stepping in" has been in the news recently.

In regards to the situation he describes in the article and more in general, what would you have done or what would you like to think you would have done?

Stepped in while he was harassing the lady. Don't much care how big you are, your knee caps are still quite fragile if attacked from the right angle. Also he has balls, a throat, and other highly vulnerable points to strike at.

No it isn't and i agree with you on that but he wouldn't have had his head bashed in if he didn't make the v-sign in the first place, thus he paid the price for his actions.

So sitting there on the train you'd smirk to yourself that the bastard got what he had coming?

So sitting there on the train you'd smirk to yourself that the bastard got what he had coming?

Whoever said i would smirk? I wouldn't intervene because i'd probably get my ass kicked but i'd probably tend to the man after the big guy left. Stop trying to make me sound like a evil person, you're the one saying he was a bastard.

If you're gonna do something that you know is gonna upset someone then you should be ready to pay the consequences.

Whoever said i would smirk? I wouldn't intervene because i'd probably get my ass kicked but i'd probably tend to the man after the big guy left. Stop trying to make me sound like a evil person, you're the one saying he was a bastard.

Sounds pretty damned smug to me. What a world you must live in where a minor offense results in a beating and the bystanders just sit back knowing that the victim got what he had coming.

Sounds pretty damned smug to me. What a world you must live in where a minor offense results in a beating and the bystanders just sit back knowing that the victim got what he had coming.

No one knew the victim had it coming, if you saw someone giving you the V-sign or the middle finger you wouldn't be to happy about it either, i'm not saying you would bash that guy's head in but i'm pretty sure you'd be pretty damn mad. What the hell do you mean "What a world you must live in..." we're all from the same planet dumass and unfortunately shit like this happens every now and then.

What i'm trying to get across is that if that man didn't make that v-sign in the first place then that man wouldn't have kicked the crap out of him and there wouldn't have been such a scene. Unfortunately the man did make that sign and he paid the price for it.

Um, you did read the beginning where it was mentioned that the guy who was flipped off was HARASSING a lady didn't you?

Not quite. The sentiment is completely different when the palm is facing the target

I know, I just couldn't resist :)

Um, you did read the beginning where it was mentioned that the guy who was flipped off was HARASSING a lady didn't you?

Yes i did and i'm aware that the big guy was a a huge jerk to that lady, and i understand how that man was trying to feel the lady's pain by flipping the "thug" off when he left. But what i'm trying to say is he should have just let it slide and none of the ass kicking would have happened.

Yes i did and i'm aware that the big guy was a a huge jerk to that lady, and i understand how that man was trying to feel the lady's pain by flipping the "thug" off when he left. But what i'm trying to say is he should have just let it slide and none of the ass kicking would have happened.

I wish you nothing but luck should you bet set upon by a thug in the company of those who think like you do. You'll need it.

I thought this was going to be about Klondike bars . . .

Okay guys, i'm not trying to anger you guys. The heat of the moment gets to me lol. Basically what i'm trying to say is, yes i know what that the man harassing the lady was wrong and when he beatup the guy who gave him the V-sign was even worse, this whole scene could have been avoided if the man chose not to make the sign and let it slide. Peace to all.:p

I wish you nothing but luck should you bet set upon by a thug in the company of those who think like you do. You'll need it.

What do you mean think like I do? I never said what the thug did was right, i'm strongly against what he did. Can you clarify this more, your lack of grammar makes this hard to interpret.

Yes i did and i'm aware that the big guy was a a huge jerk to that lady, and i understand how that man was trying to feel the lady's pain by flipping the "thug" off when he left. But what i'm trying to say is he should have just let it slide and none of the ass kicking would have happened.

Well you're just a lovely human being aren't you? Let it slide my ass, he should have done something to stop it while it was going on.

I thought this was going to be about Klondike bars . . .Me too, And I don't even know what Klondike bars are....

You're kidding, right? Thugs like the one in the article have no such qualms.

Ok, you're right. I was talking about actual men, not overgrown ill-bred, spoiled brats who should not be allowed out without keepers. But, consider this, if a little old lady were to confront such, do you not think that the others on the train might respond?

That article is rather interesting.

True, the man in a way did deserve it for shooting the bloody thug the fingers. But still, I don't think he deserved to be gushing from the head for it.

Have you read the other comments below the article? Some of those stories are whack. The things people do....

Well you're just a lovely human being aren't you? Let it slide my ass, he should have done something to stop it while it was going on.

I agree with you on that, someone should have done something while he was harassing the lady and it's sad no one did. But the thing is, he didn't do anything while it was happening. Instead he had to wait for the man to leave until he made the V-sign.

What do you mean think like I do? I never said what the thug did was right, i'm strongly against what he did. Can you clarify this more, your lack of grammar makes this hard to interpret.

:D Gods I hope you were trying to be funny.

Yes, if that ever happened to me i'd even be sure to tell the man to back off.

I agree with you on that, someone should have done something while he was harassing the lady and it's sad no one did. But the thing is, he didn't do anything while it was happening. Instead he had to wait for the man to leave until he made the V-sign.

So it's OK to be a coward when you see a man getting beaten severely, because you might get hurt, but it's a shame no one intervened when the thug was harassing the woman. Because why? Why is one of them a shame and the other he had it coming? Why is cowardice admirable in one case and a pity in the other?

Yes, if that ever happened to me i'd even be sure to tell the man to back off.

How can you be so sure?

I mean, I know we'd all love to think that we would tell the giant man to back off. But can you honestly say that when a barbaric male the size of a mammoth beats the shit out of some other person, you'll tell him to stand down?

Hey, if you still can, all the more power to you, mate.

I have in the past and I would step in again

So it's OK to be a coward when you see a man getting beaten severely, because you might get hurt, but it's a shame no one intervened when the thug was harassing the woman. Because why? Why is one of them a shame and the other he had it coming? Why is cowardice admirable in one case and a pity in the other?

I'm not speaking for the whole country. I'm speaking for myself. I know i wouldn't be able to intervene, i'm only a 5"6 female. That man would've torn me in half like a piece of paper. I don't know about you, but i would not be physically able to intervene. When he was harassing the woman he wasn't beating the shit out of her, if i was there i would of said something to that man to let her be.

How can you be so sure?

I mean, I know we'd all love to think that we would tell the giant man to back off. But can you honestly say that when a barbaric male the size of a mammoth beats the shit out of some other person, you'll tell him to stand down?

Hey, if you still can, all the more power to you, mate.

I'd say it's pretty simple for most people. I've been in several dozen fights over the years. I got two older brothers, I've fought guys bigger than me before. I don't much care for fighting, but sometimes you have to.

How can you be so sure?

I mean, I know we'd all love to think that we would tell the giant man to back off. But can you honestly say that when a barbaric male the size of a mammoth beats the shit out of some other person, you'll tell him to stand down?

Hey, if you still can, all the more power to you, mate.

No matter the size of a man, he still has no right to harass a woman the way he did to that lady.

I'd say it's pretty simple for most people. I've been in several dozen fights over the years. I got two older brothers, I've fought guys bigger than me before. I don't much care for fighting, but sometimes you have to.

No matter the size of a man, he still has no right to harass a woman the way he did to that lady.

Don't get me wrong, I certainly agree that people like this can't go running around beating up people.

I also agree that sometimes you do have to fight, no matter the consequences. It just seems that sometimes people play "Hero" when they're full of bull.

And, frankly, not to sound rude or offense, that annoys me.
Sorry if I did offend either of you.

Don't get me wrong, I certainly agree that people like this can't go running around beating up people.

I also agree that sometimes you do have to fight, no matter the consequences. It just seems that sometimes people play "Hero" when they're full of bull.

And, frankly, not to sound rude or offense, that annoys me.
Sorry if I did offend either of you.

I can't fathom why any woman in a city wouldn't take a self defense class, or carry a canister of mace.

Don't get me wrong, I certainly agree that people like this can't go running around beating up people.

I also agree that sometimes you do have to fight, no matter the consequences. It just seems that sometimes people play "Hero" when they're full of bull.

And, frankly, not to sound rude or offense, that annoys me.
Sorry if I did offend either of you.

It didn't offend me in the slightest:), i've been in situations similar to that before. Well, no one got beatup atleast.

I can't fathom why any woman in a city wouldn't take a self defense class, or carry a canister of mace.

Some women live under the thought that stuff like that will never happen to them. I don't really think a self defense course is necessary if you know how to handle a situation like that.

I can't fathom why any woman in a city wouldn't take a self defense class, or carry a canister of mace.

Or both. With the way this world is spinning I'm surprised women haven't been walking around with maces. Not the canisters, the freakin' weapon!

But I know exactly what you mean. Everyone just walks away figuring "It happens to other people, not me".

But the problem is...we're all "other people" to those "other people"

It didn't offend me in the slightest:), i've been in situations similar to that before. Well, no one got beatup atleast.

Hah, I'm glad.
Yeah. I'm certainly one to jump into a verbal sparring. I can usually excel greatly and beat my opponent quite nicely when I'm in the mood. Hahaha

If I see my Mother being attacked, I'll step in.

If I see another family member being attacked, I'll step in.

If I see a friend being attacked, I'll step in.

If I see my FELLOW HUMAN BEING being attacked, I'll step in.

And judging from the comments on that BBC link from the original poster, a lot more people seem to have started to consider stepping in, so let's hope the world gets better.

I can't fathom why any woman in a city wouldn't take a self defense class, or carry a canister of mace.
I believe that even mace and switchblades are illegal in the good, old UK.

I believe that even mace and switchblades are illegal in the good, old UK.

You're right unfortunately. But you can carry household stuff and use that stuff as weapons in self-defence (as long as you can give a good reason for carrying it).

But yeh, the legal system is fucked.

But yeh, the legal system is fucked.

Isn't every government's legal systems fucked in one way or another?

I think the comment regarding the consequences of intervention is worthy of discussion; such is the lack of faith in the judicial system in the UK that people are unlikely to intervene in such a situation for fear of coming off worse from any resultant trial. Lamentably, this popular belief has more than a kernel of truth to it, as one might see in regards to Tony Martin, and is borne out by the shameful brevity of prison sentences now given by judges.#

I try to intervene when I can; not only is punching a chav immensely pleasurable, but it is socially responsible.