NationStates Jolt Archive

Read this article! (http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/space/08/17/white.dwarf.reut/index.html)


So my friends, let's hear what you think!


Is there life on other planets?

And if so, should we care?



I realize this has probably been done before on other posts, but oh well I'm starting a new one in light of this recent discovery.

probably

but unless its in this solar system its pretty much irrelevant to us.

It's very possible, but considering the sheer size of the universe, probably very rare.

Well there is bound to be life in some part of the universe but we will probably never find it.

probably

but unless its in this solar system its pretty much irrelevant to us.

Not much more to say I don't think.

The probability of life existing elsewhere in the universe, given the size of the universe and the fact that planetary systems don't appear to be rare, approaches unity. Intelligence, however, would seem to be a much rarer phenomenon. Likewise, the probability of life nearby is quite low - though, given that there are three possible life-origin points in this system other than earth, possible. (The three are Mars, which is sufficiently Earthlike to harbour microlife, Europa, which could have life beneath it's ice crust, and Titan, which has it's own form of volatile organic chemistry.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JSR_6qfXTg

The last line is especially relevant. *nod*

:)

yes. but the odds they're green with silver suits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JSR_6qfXTg

The last line is especially relevant. *nod*

:)

You are from Earth right?

yes. but the odds they're green with silver suits.

Any race with a fashion sense like that ain't worth lookin' for, girlfriend.

*snaps fingers*

Trilby63;12976741']You are from Earth right?
Nah, LG is a Boltzmann Brain.

Any race with a fashion sense like that ain't worth lookin' for, girlfriend.

*snaps fingers*

LMAO


how, uh, well, how interesting

Trilby63;12976741']You are from Earth right?

Currently or originally?

Currently or originally?

Originally.

I don't know but it doesn't matter because even if it is out there it is most likely somewhere very far away in the vast universe so we'll never meet it. It's probably not even in the same galaxy as us. On top of that even if it does develop civilization it's not likely to happen at the same time as our civilization since the time period we exist in is a tiny insignificant fraction of the long history of the universe.

Who says it needs to be on another planet?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2241753.ece
http://space.newscientist.com/article/dn12506-did-life-begin-on-comets.html
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/fundamentals/mg19526171.100-spooks-in-space.html

Trilby63;12976762']Originally.

What if two space aliens came down to Earth and boinked then went back home. Then their kid returned after years off-planet. Would that kid be originally from Earth? What if he was born here but the son of two space aliens? Or... just theoretically mind you... suppose a comet crashed into a mud pit and the latent extraterrestrial DNA fused with the mud to create a life form that crawled from the brown ooze and was discovered by circus clowns who raised it as their own until it was old enough to be adopted by a family of ordinary humans? The definition of 'originally' leaves some room for interpretation. *nod*

Undoubtedly. But, the fact that we're out on the end of one of our galaxy's spiral arms means it will be many years, and technological advancements before we meet any aliens.

What I want to know is, who are the two morons who actually voted "no"...

Undoubtedly. But, the fact that we're out on the end of one of our galaxy's spiral arms means it will be many years, and technological advancements before we meet any aliens.

What I want to know is, who are the two morons who actually voted "no"...

Three now.

Undoubtedly. But, the fact that we're out on the end of one of our galaxy's spiral arms means it will be many years, and technological advancements before we meet any aliens.

What I want to know is, who are the two morons who actually voted "no"...


isn't it possible, just as they're might be life on other planets, that the flip side is also true? that they're might NOT be life on other planets?

isn't it possible, just as they're might be life on other planets, that the flip side is also true? that they're might NOT be life on other planets?

It's very likely that there's life somewhere else in the universe. Cos the universe is pretty big, you know.

It's very likely that there's life somewhere else in the universe. Cos the universe is pretty big, you know.

yeah, i agree


i was just playing devil's advocate

I would bet my life on there being other life out there. I think it is probably more common then most think. Now intelligent life is another story. Intelligence as in our own way of thinking is going to be harder to find. Will we find another race? I almost bet on it. We will find other intelligence and will probably find traces of past civilizations too. Humans will make it out into the universe and probably get into wars and get our asses kicked back to Earth. Will be interesting to see what the next hundred thousand years brings.

Yes, statistically speaking.

I would bet my life on there being other life out there. I think it is probably more common then most think. Now intelligent life is another story. Intelligence as in our own way of thinking is going to be harder to find. Will we find another race? I almost bet on it. We will find other intelligence and will probably find traces of past civilizations too. Humans will make it out into the universe and probably get into wars and get our asses kicked back to Earth. Will be interesting to see what the next hundred thousand years brings.

if we can manage to survive that long and not destroy our own planet

http://www.resa.net/nasa/

go to this address.
its cool.

if we can manage to survive that long and not destroy our own planet

We managed this long without destroying it. I know the doomsayers make it look as if we don't have much time left. However the Earth and humans will adapt to one another. We should be around for much longer.

Of course there is.

But the more important question is "is there life out there that we can
a) recognise as life
b) find
c) not come into contact with in such a way that will have disastrous consequences for one or another of the species?"

As far as I can see, discovering other life in the universe would be a big blow to many organisations and would therefore be resisted and ridiculed or attacked.

Now I may be a cynical bastard but I think that a lot of people would try to exploit or destroy any alien life humanity comes across, rather than being nice. After all, a lot of people have a hard time behaving in a civilized manner to other humans (think Darfur, Iraq, Zimbabwe) so the chances of us being decent towards a weaker civilization of aliens is pretty slim.

We managed this long without destroying it. I know the doomsayers make it look as if we don't have much time left. However the Earth and humans will adapt to one another. We should be around for much longer.

yes, but as technology advances, so does the destructive power of the human race


for example, we really didn't start "destroying" our planet until just fairly recently, when the industrial revolution took place just less than two hundred years ago


so even though we as humans have been around for THOUSANDS of years, it's taken us relatively very little time to already start altering our own ecology and environment

not to mention all the animals that we've managed to run into extinction

that will have drastic effects on our ecology, which is THE ONLY THING that sustains us here on earth

I've no doubt there is.
I mean damn, look at our Solar System/Galaxy, and then compare them to the size of Space (which as of yet has no measured size, and is widely believed to be infinite).
There are many, MANY other Galaxies like ours, along with even more Solar Systems in them.
That's enough evidence for me to believe.
Now I only hope they're benevolent...

Obviously , life forms such as plants and bacteria will be on other planets like Earth definately but as for sentient life i'm sure but theres a good chance there is sentient life on other planets.

Of course there is.

But the more important question is "is there life out there that we can
a) recognise as life
b) find
c) not come into contact with in such a way that will have disastrous consequences for one or another of the species?"

As far as I can see, discovering other life in the universe would be a big blow to many organisations and would therefore be resisted and ridiculed or attacked.

Now I may be a cynical bastard but I think that a lot of people would try to exploit or destroy any alien life humanity comes across, rather than being nice. After all, a lot of people have a hard time behaving in a civilized manner to other humans (think Darfur, Iraq, Zimbabwe) so the chances of us being decent towards a weaker civilization of aliens is pretty slim.

Yeah but just wait until some kick ass race of Aliens tell us to pick on some one there own size ...

What I want to know is, who are the two morons who actually voted "no"...
Interesting.

Compare the 2 questions "Are there aliens?" and "Is there a god?". In both cases there may be aliens/god out there but we haven't found any proof of their existence yet though some claim to have been visited by them. The 2 cases are almost identical.

When the question is asked about aliens the ones who vote "no" are considered morons but when the same question is asked about god it's the ones who vote "yes" that are considered morons. I find that interesting.


Personally I think both those who answer "yes" and "no" on both those questions are equally stupid since the only logical answer when there is no evidence to decide by is "maybe, we don't know.". Although I must confess my own answer to both undecided questions is half decided too "I'm not sure but yes I hope so.".

Interesting.

Compare the 2 questions "Are there aliens?" and "Is there a god?". In both cases there may be aliens/god out there but we haven't found any proof of their existence yet though some claim to have been visited by them. The 2 cases are almost identical.


God by definition is an alien. I mention this to religious people on occasion when the discussion is centered on religion and where it comes from. I normally get blank stares after they say God is not an alien. Then I say "why of course he is. Is he from Earth?" They say no and I say ok then. So most of the people on this planet worship an alien. Many many believers of aliens out there that don't even realize it.

i think there is,,

but wouldnt it be a real suprise if we traveled into space and found the ruins of an ancient human civilisation on another planet

talk about muddling things up

Yes, there is life from other planets. They visit us.

See!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0jpUPLqLhA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZb2VlDyYvk

Yes, there is life from other planets. They visit us.

See!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0jpUPLqLhA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZb2VlDyYvk



the first video is a low quality, fuzzy black and white footage of some random lights. not very convincing

and the second video is an OBVIOUS forgery

the light shown on the UFO in question is consistent with a reflectory pattern, not something emitted. Therefore, it's fake because there's no light being shone on it

and it clearly smacks of some major CG

When the question is asked about aliens the ones who vote "no" are considered morons but when the same question is asked about god it's the ones who vote "yes" that are considered morons. I find that interesting.

Which god?
The trinity that cries when its creations sin, sends hurricanes, and grants wishes?
The omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent creator of everything?
Or an undefined force or being that created the spark of the universe?

As an agnostic atheist, I believe that the odds are more favorable for the existence of a case further down that list.
I also think it's more likely for life to exist elsewhere in the universe than for Earth to be alone.
I don't think this is contradictory.

Interesting.

Compare the 2 questions "Are there aliens?" and "Is there a god?". In both cases there may be aliens/god out there but we haven't found any proof of their existence yet though some claim to have been visited by them. The 2 cases are almost identical.

Strawman. The suggestion that there is extrasolar life most emphatically does not imply that Earth has been visited by such life forms, and I doin't see anyone arguing that they have.

When the question is asked about aliens the ones who vote "no" are considered morons but when the same question is asked about god it's the ones who vote "yes" that are considered morons. I find that interesting.

The observed evidence, at a minimum, supports investigation into the hypothesis that extraterrestial life might well exist. The observed evidence does not suggest that there is reason to believe a supernatural, untestable "god hypothesis" exists, period.

Personally I think both those who answer "yes" and "no" on both those questions are equally stupid since the only logical answer when there is no evidence to decide by is "maybe, we don't know.". Although I must confess my own answer to both undecided questions is half decided too "I'm not sure but yes I hope so.".

Nope. Not equally stupid. Since you haven't defined your terms, I'll work with the best definitions available, hence God equals "a magic man in the sky".
Extraterrestial life that works within the observed rules is a reasonable hypothesis. The "magic man in the sky", who, by very definition, breaks with the observed rules, is an irrational hypothesis.

BTW, "when there is no evidence to decide by" sets up another strawman.

To claim the question of "are their aliens" is roughly equivalent to "is there god" is nonsensical.

The question of "are their aliens" is one that can be, at least, rationally considered. We have evidence of stars (several billion billion in fact). We have evidence that starts can have planets around them. We have evidence that planets can develop life on its surface. We have evidence that from life, intelligent life can evolve

We know, for a fact that we are all here, that intelligent life is a real, true, possibility. We know this for a fact. And we know that if stars maybe planets, and if planets maybe life, and if life maybe intelligent life. And we know we have stars, lots and lots and lots of stars. Therefore intelligent life fits in with what we perceive as possible. We know it's possible, we're all here.

What we don't know is how probable it is. It may be excedingly rare. But with billions upon billions of stars out there, the odds go up significantly. We can at least have the discussion about whether intelligent life is there, by starting with two basic premises. "Where there be stars, there be chance of life" and "there be stars".

On the other hand, god is entirely out of our realm of speculation. Not only can we not discuss the probability of god, we can't even discuss the possibility of god. We can't even say if such an entity is even possible. An all knowing, all powerful entity capable of creating universes and yet existing outside of them. We have no idea whether such a thing is even possible. We have absolutly no evidence to suggest that it is. A believe in god, therefore, is a belief predicated on no real observable evidence what so ever (in fairness, so is a belief NOT in god).

A belief in intelligent life is based on very real evidence. If you wish to see that evidence, bring a friend out into a field on a cloudless night. First, look at friend then, look up. Evidence.

Here is some proof:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v49t7MpoSVY&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WszktPdJeU

Strawman. The suggestion that there is extrasolar life most emphatically does not imply that Earth has been visited by such life forms, and I doin't see anyone arguing that they have.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that anyone here used "I've met them" as an argument. I mentioned the fact that there are some people who claim to have been visited by aliens without thinking about that mentioning it implied I meant someone here. My bad.

BTW, "when there is no evidence to decide by" sets up another strawman.
I don't think looking at the stars and saying "There are so many stars out there, all their solar systems can't be sterile, there must be someone somewhere out there." is anymore evidence then looking around in nature and saying "It's so beautiful and perfect, this couldn't just randomly occur, someone must have designed it.".

But I can see why some would find that logic convincing. My bad again, just because I don't think that logic proves anything doesn't mean others can't see it as evidence.

I should stop making a fool out of myself boasting my opinions here.

Interesting.

Compare the 2 questions "Are there aliens?" and "Is there a god?". In both cases there may be aliens/god out there but we haven't found any proof of their existence yet though some claim to have been visited by them. The 2 cases are almost identical.
No, they're not. There are millions of different kinds of lifeforms on this planet, we see examples of them on a daily basis(usually). Thus if lifeforms can come to be here, there is no reason to believe that they could come to be elsewhere.

There is has been a total of 0 observations of an entity which could only be God.

II don't think looking at the stars and saying "There are so many stars out there, all their solar systems can't be sterile, there must be someone somewhere out there." is anymore evidence then looking around in nature and saying "It's so beautiful and perfect, this couldn't just randomly occur, someone must have designed it.".

There is life on this planet.
There are many, many planets.
Since there is life here, we must accept that there could be life on another planet like this one.
Since there are many, many planets, we must accept that there is likely others like this one.
Since there are many planets like this one, it is likely that there is life on one of them.

I sincerely doubt that our planet should be the only one to carry life.

Just look at where and in which form we discover new niches that support it on a daily basis.

It's really conceited to think that only Earth carries life, looking at how many galaxies are out there, how many suns are in those galaxies, and how many planets circle those suns.

Odds are that there is something or someone out there.

As to the level of intelligence - well, I don't think we're doing too well on this here planet, either.

Now, contact with aliens, that truly belongs into the Weekly World News.

It is possible that this planet is the only one in the universe with life on it.

But, when you consider that there are more galaxes in the universe than you can count on both your fingers and your toes, and each galaxy contains more stars than you can count on your fingers and your toes, it seems unlikely.

This poll should have been public so we can mock genitally (see: harshly) those who voted no.

EDIT
That is a pretty bloody poor misspelling of gently there.

This poll should have been public so we can mock genitally (see: harshly) those who voted no.
Probably aliens trying to convince the public of their non-existence. *nods*

I don't think that logic proves anything

:(

Maybe. If there is no life, that could partially disprove God.

We have evidence of stars (several billion billion in fact).

Actually, several hundred trillion upon several hundred trillion, and then some. Just take a look at the Hubble Ultra Deep Field --- that's not even an inch from our point of view, and there are countless galaxies, from massive to small, young to old. I think it's safe to say that there are four very small-minded people on this forum, judging by the poll. Because really, when you have that many galaxies and that many stars in not even one square inch of visible space, the numbers add up in life's favor.

Will we ever reach the galaxies in the Ultra Deep Field? Not anytime soon, that's for sure... They're billions of light years away from us. But our own galactic neighborhood has several galaxies very close to us, and one of them is massive (almost 300,000 light years across; the Andromeda galaxy). The odds of Andromeda supporting life are very high.

This poll should have been public so we can mock genitally (see: harshly) those who voted no.

EDIT
That is a pretty bloody poor misspelling of gently there.

Oh, geez, I thought you were going for genially.

Maybe. If there is no life, that could partially disprove God.How??

I remember back in the early '70's they sent a laboratory to Mars specifically to look for life. It had machines to look for gases released, changes in soil chemistry, even what would happen when water was added. When the results came in every experiment showed more positive evidence than predicted. A couple weeks later they said that the results were "exotic chemistry" that they couldn't explain or reproduce on earth.

Nothing more was ever said about the mission, but interestingly there is still a search for life on Mars with each following mission. Not that the government would ever pander to those that couldn't accept scientific results.

Is it possible to break though the galactic gravity well? Chances are that there's life elsewhere, but likely not anywhere near us. There's very little chance they'll ever contact us.

Is it possible to break though the galactic gravity well?the what?

Yes.

There pretty much HAS to be life on other planets. It's not going to asffect much, however, unless it's multicellular.

Enceladus is also a strong possibility -- quite possibly the strongest one. Thanks to Cassini, it's pretty much been proven that Enceladus had cryovolcanos (volcanos that spurt out gasses such as water vapor instead of lava). Since it's an icy planet that shoots out water vapor, there has to be liquid water there -- and one theory has Enceladus holding a LOT of liquid water thanks to pressure! See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:PIA07799.png for details.

Here is some proof:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v49t7MpoSVY&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WszktPdJeU

funny stuff I tell ya.

i don't see how there could possibly not be, though not neccessarily those in our own solar system. but any world in any solar system orbiting at a range of distances from it's primary, such that the energy reaching it, is in the range to keep most of that planet's water in liquid phase, and that also had water, it seems to me, almost invariably that life of some kind, sufficiently familiar for us to recognize AS life, would come into eixtence there.

and even those may not be absolute requirements

more exotic and less familiar forms, silicon based or methane breathing or even nonbreating at all, are of course also conceivable.

so it is also possible, if only marginally so, for something resembling life of some sort, to exist elsewhere in our own solar system as well.

it is when we take into consideration the universe beyond our own sun and it's brood of planets, that life elsewhere, becomes almost inevitable, and even highly evolved, creative and spiritual life, as much so as our own 'human' species, becomes certainly possible, even likely.

i have another reason for leaning in this direction too though, and that is the dreams or memories i was born with, of having lived previous lives on such other 'alien' worlds.

=^^=
.../\...

I for one believe that there is intelligent life in our solar system and we are the penal colony of that intelligent world? we don't need jails, we are a jail, how else can you explain the misery that constantly pops up in our world, on sentencing they brainwashed us with one of different languages, they dressed us up in different skin colors, they made us extremely emotionally sensitive and possessive. They are now turning up the heat (global warming) to make us realize how insignificant we are in the eyes of the evolution of the solar system.
But I do know that we are not the masters of this world ..... in any form.
George Orwell should have thought of this plot, or maybe he did and he considered it too realistic and not worthy of sci-fi. :eek::confused:

Oh, there absolutely is in my opinion. I'd feel quite a bit silly to think otherwise.

The probability of life existing elsewhere in the universe, given the size of the universe and the fact that planetary systems don't appear to be rare, approaches unity. Intelligence, however, would seem to be a much rarer phenomenon. Likewise, the probability of life nearby is quite low - though, given that there are three possible life-origin points in this system other than earth, possible. (The three are Mars, which is sufficiently Earthlike to harbour microlife, Europa, which could have life beneath it's ice crust, and Titan, which has it's own form of volatile organic chemistry.)
Nah. The nature of survival is, in itself, intelligence.
Arguably.

I'd imagine that, yes, somewhere else in the vastness of space, life has managed to cobble itself together to some level. Whether it's important or not is another matter.

Is there life out there somewhere: absolutely. Intelligent life: probably. Has it visited our little backwater: doubtful.

Yes.

Weather or not the drunken hillbilly that saw something shiney in a cornfield was obducted? Doubt it.

Jared Diamond gave a good explanation of why he thought intelligent life on other planets was unlikely in The Third Chimpanzee. First, when we look for other potential living planets, we look for earth-like ones. We are basing our search on a single planet, which is unwise. Secondly, we are assuming that intelligent life exists because it is useful evolutionary. This isn't true though, there are plenty of less intelligent species on earth that are more successful that humans. The fact that humans are intelligent is more of a fluke, according to Diamond. Finally, we have to take into account the lifetime of civilization. Diamond is more pessimistic than I am, but even I don't think humans will last forever.
He also gives a good argument of why we shouldn't hope to find any intelligent life. Based on how humans have treated other humans, imagine how another intelligent species of extraterrestrial would treat humans.

Jared Diamond gave a good explanation of why he thought intelligent life on other planets was unlikely in The Third Chimpanzee. First, when we look for other potential living planets, we look for earth-like ones. We are basing our search on a single planet, which is unwise. Secondly, we are assuming that intelligent life exists because it is useful evolutionary. This isn't true though, there are plenty of less intelligent species on earth that are more successful that humans. The fact that humans are intelligent is more of a fluke, according to Diamond. Finally, we have to take into account the lifetime of civilization. Diamond is more pessimistic than I am, but even I don't think humans will last forever.
He also gives a good argument of why we shouldn't hope to find any intelligent life. Based on how humans have treated other humans, imagine how another intelligent species of extraterrestrial would treat humans.

Wait...I don't see how the first or third preclude intelligent life, just us finding it.

Wait...I don't see how the first or third preclude intelligent life, just us finding it.
Sorry, I was unclear. When I said "we have to take the lifetime of a civilization into account", I was referring to the other civilization, not us. Basically, if humans have the potential to destroy themselves, an equally intelligent species would also be able to.
You're right, this doesn't mean an intelligent society couldn't exist. When I said "intelligent", I was thinking intelligent enough to build radio technology, or even space traveling technology. This would be unlikely.
I recommend the book, although most of it has nothing to do with exobiology but human evolution. It's by the same person who wrote Guns, Germs, and Steel.

Read this article! (http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/space/08/17/white.dwarf.reut/index.html)


So my friends, let's hear what you think!


Is there life on other planets?

And if so, should we care?



I realize this has probably been done before on other posts, but oh well I'm starting a new one in light of this recent discovery.

In the vastness of space I'm certain there IS but I doubt there is any in the solar system, save perhaps Europa, since we're almost certain it has water.