NationStates Jolt Archive

A friend groused about this to me a bit ago and I thought I'd pose this question to the quivering masses...

Who gets to be called 'gamers?' Who does that represent for you?

To my friend, the term belongs to the pencil-and-paper/table top crowd. Since role players were often not just role players, and war gamers were not just war gamers, and miniature...well, some of those guys...

Anyway, that's proper gamer to him.

He doesn't like where that is being applied now-

Video gamers. He feels, as do I, that video role playing games keep all the parts we dislike about gaming (his definition) and take out the parts we like. That 'adventure' is often thinly disguised safari and 'combat' is clicking through menus or 'hotkeys.'

However, given that snide review some of these things are deep if not complex. And even sometimes pull off complex. And time spent on them could certainly rival time spent at the table top.

There's a third contender in that the gambling industry wants 'gamblers' to be referred to as 'gamers.' Less baggage, except for the nerds clinging to the word already.

I should point out that I at least at one point belonged to the first set and also believe sports fans and military fetishists are nerds, too.

Anyway, have at it. Poll forthcoming.

Mehhh...I don't actively care if tabletop gamers like your friend dont consider me a "true gamer". I just play computer games and that's that. :p

I used to be one of those pencil and paper gamers, but I'm a video gamer now so I'm still a gamer. I've never been a gambling gamer though (unless hold stocks/shares counts).

If you aren't pushing cards, dice, counters, figures or pencils, you ain't no gamer.

Video games can be played by all sorts of non-nerd types. It takes a special disregard for societal opinion (and sometimes hygiene, it seems) to be a true gamer.

real gamers play vidoes games. the peolle who play table top games are not gamers. they are geeks. A gamer can be anyone, while it takes a special kind of nut to play D&D.

real gamers play vidoes games. the peolle who play table top games are not gamers. they are geeks. A gamer can be anyone, while it takes a special kind of nut to play D&D.

Strike that, reverse it.

real gamers play vidoes games. the peolle who play table top games are not gamers. they are geeks. A gamer can be anyone, while it takes a special kind of nut to play D&D.

True. And those people are the original gamers.

But hey, we're not exclusivists. Video Gamers are gamers too.

Gamblers are a different breed, though.

Ah! Now you've done it. Next the thing you know, it'll the East Indians going on about how Columbus was biggot and every one else is aboriginal or native or what have you.

On topic anyways, can't a gamer really just be somebody who enjoys the game, be it D&D (geeks), video games (socially inept), sports (jock) or twister (Saige Dragon and various hotties).

Amongst computer-gaming circles it means people who play computer games ;)

Not that people who play computer games and people who play tabletop games are mutually exclusive; I enjoy Warhammer when I get a chance (although I don't often, and painting the models gets tedious).

Since I could only choose one, I chose video games. Wizards and funky dice are nothing compared to a certain AWESOME Italian plumber who "grows" every time he eats a mushroom he found in blocks or sometimes just lying around. Yay for drug references kids are too stupid to get.

I don't have anything against funky dice. I designed a board game based off of the Legend of Zelda. It had dungeons, and overworld, enemies, bosses, a final boss in a final dungeon, keys, etc. It's like the games, except on card board.

My friend and I are also designing our own "pen and paper" role playing game. We're still working on it. At least we wouldn't have to dress up as stuff. A dude like me should not be a female mage, though I did feel pretty in a dress. All those women who wanted to wear pants. Only within the last few decades that they are realizing that it was us men who were missing out.

i've only ever heard the term used to describe video gamers, and the take-it-all-too-seriously ones at that.

Strike that, reverse it.

No, actually, Planet spacebal l has got it right.

The term gamer moreso applies to Video & Computer gamers of the last decade or so.

Ugh, D&D is so dead. There was just so much involved in it. Too much. Gamer may have meant you old guys back in the day, but Computer Gamers is what it is about now. Evolution. It has a broader audience in our circle, anyway.

Traditional and video gamers are same kind of people to me! I started with D&D so honestly, both do much the same thing in different way. Gambling gamers are very different, they aren't nerds.

A gamer is someone who devotes a large proportion of his time to a game, be it video or pen&paper.

(And yes, I did not put '/her' for a reason, there is no proof of female gamers. Ever. :D)

Options one and two are both classes of gamers.

If you aren't pushing cards, dice, counters, figures or pencils, you ain't no gamer.

Because nerds using technology to streamline their experience and improve time-efficiency is just wrong :rolleyes:

A gamer is someone who devotes a large proportion of his time to a game, be it video or pen&paper.

(And yes, I did not put '/her' for a reason, there is no proof of female gamers. Ever. :D)
I filmed a documentary in college that disagrees. I filmed a gaming (pencil and paper/tabletop variety) convention and one of the things I found remarkable was unlike when I was a kid and would go, this time there were actually a lot of women in attendance, and not just the odd patient girlfriend, but women who were there on their own.
Because nerds using technology to streamline their experience and improve time-efficiency is just wrong :rolleyes:
The problem is that in the streamlining most of what some people find enjoyable in the game is lost.

When my roleplaying experience is reduced to clicking through menus I find it lacking. Rolling on tables was never my favorite part of gaming, in fact I found it the most distracting.

I think the word "gamer" applies to both video and tabletop players, although tabletop had it first.

No, actually, Planet spacebal l has got it right.

The term gamer moreso applies to Video & Computer gamers of the last decade or so.

Ugh, D&D is so dead. There was just so much involved in it. Too much. Gamer may have meant you old guys back in the day, but Computer Gamers is what it is about now. Evolution. It has a broader audience in our circle, anyway.

D&D is not dead. 4.0 is due out soon, from what I hear. To say that there's "too much involved in it" is to cop to class-A laziness and absence of imagination or even cleverness.

Because nerds using technology to streamline their experience and improve time-efficiency is just wrong :rolleyes:

It isn't the same game when you play a PC or console game. Even if you play online against human opponenets, the feeling is different. Having someone spin a story for you out of their own owrk and imagination and then having the nominal protagonists decide on their own how to best navigate the story? Video games aren't even close to that.

However, technology has helped tabletoppers make gaming more efficient. Using a digital projector mounted on the ceiling, I played a campaign of D&D with figures and maps done via computer, and all our stats kept on our laptops so that we wouldn't have to keep looking at our character sheets for saving throws and to hits and bonuses. Had we the time, we'd have set up a lan to have all our laptops tied into the DMs to make the mechanics even smoother.

It's about the story and about how players and DM react and adjust. No vidoe game has that flexibility -- though I won't deny that they very well may have it in the coming decades.

I think the word "gamer" applies to both video and tabletop players, although tabletop had it first.

And therefore tabletop players have the original right to the name.

I call console / PC gamers "twitchers"...though that's mostly apporpriate for FPS games and fighting/sports games.

No, actually, Planet spacebal l has got it right.

The term gamer moreso applies to Video & Computer gamers of the last decade or so.

Ugh, D&D is so dead. There was just so much involved in it. Too much. Gamer may have meant you old guys back in the day, but Computer Gamers is what it is about now. Evolution. It has a broader audience in our circle, anyway.

Right. Punching buttons is SO much more evolved than creating characters, roleplaying them, working out puzzles, strategies, writing a story....

Right. Punching buttons is SO much more evolved than creating characters, roleplaying them, working out puzzles, strategies, writing a story....

Yeah, because we never punch buttons to do all those things.

To me, a "gamer" is someone who plays Games. whether it be Minuatures, War Games, RPG, Electronic Games or even games of chance.

Gamers are people who turn games into their hobby or more. if you only play games with your children then you're not a gamer. if the only time you stop a game is to do the essentials... eat, sleep, bathroom breaks, work... then you're a gamer.

To me, a "gamer" is someone who plays Games. whether it be Minuatures, War Games, RPG, Electronic Games or even games of chance.

Gamers are people who turn games into their hobby or more. if you only play games with your children then you're not a gamer. if the only time you stop a game is to do the essentials... eat, sleep, bathroom breaks, work... then you're a gamer.

And if you can find a way to do the essentials without stopping...

A friend groused about this to me a bit ago and I thought I'd pose this question to the quivering masses...

Who gets to be called 'gamers?' Who does that represent for you?

To my friend, the term belongs to the pencil-and-paper/table top crowd. Since role players were often not just role players, and war gamers were not just war gamers, and miniature...well, some of those guys...

Anyway, that's proper gamer to him.

He doesn't like where that is being applied now-

Video gamers. He feels, as do I, that video role playing games keep all the parts we dislike about gaming (his definition) and take out the parts we like. That 'adventure' is often thinly disguised safari and 'combat' is clicking through menus or 'hotkeys.'

However, given that snide review some of these things are deep if not complex. And even sometimes pull off complex. And time spent on them could certainly rival time spent at the table top.

There's a third contender in that the gambling industry wants 'gamblers' to be referred to as 'gamers.' Less baggage, except for the nerds clinging to the word already.

I should point out that I at least at one point belonged to the first set and also believe sports fans and military fetishists are nerds, too.

Anyway, have at it. Poll forthcoming.

Feh. They're all gamers. A obsessive video gamer is as valid as a rabid DND player.

And if you can find a way to do the essentials without stopping...

... well one has to take a break to go to the Fridge to get the food.

unless you have a (small) fridge next to your gaming area... like I do...

and if your gaming area is in the bathroom... that takes care of the bathroom breaks... like the set up I have (yes, I have a tv and my consoles in the bathroom...)

sleep however... requires a pause... unless you have a flatscreen on the ceiling or a portable screen...

(I never could get the hang of playing with my eyes close...)

... well one has to take a break to go to the Fridge to get the food.

unless you have a (small) fridge next to your gaming area... like I do...

and if your gaming area is in the bathroom... that takes care of the bathroom breaks... like the set up I have (yes, I have a tv and my consoles in the bathroom...)

sleep however... requires a pause... unless you have a flatscreen on the ceiling or a portable screen...

(I never could get the hang of playing with my eyes close...)

I think if you dream about playing the game, it still counts. Found some of my best solutions that way. :p

I think if you dream about playing the game, it still counts. Found some of my best solutions that way. :p

one of my friends gets his best CoC campaigns from his dreams.










we're really scared for him...

whenever i see "gaming" in a thread title i think of casino gambling. but i think of those who do casino gambling a gamblers not gamers.

a gamer is anyone who takes his game playing seriously no mater what form the game takes.

D&D is not dead. 4.0 is due out soon, from what I hear. To say that there's "too much involved in it" is to cop to class-A laziness and absence of imagination or even cleverness.

Oh, I have plenty of imagination and cleverness. I just don't spend it all pretending i'm some wizard or whatever like a four year old. As I said, computer games are made for a broader audience(i.e. more normal people). Only hardcore nerds play that D&D crap, i'd rather see computerized versions of it that are more geared towards the masses(see Star Wars:Knights of the Old Republic 1 & 2).


Right. Punching buttons is SO much more evolved than creating characters, roleplaying them, working out puzzles, strategies, writing a story....
As I said, only hardcore nerds are so involved in it that they do all that.

Oh, I have plenty of imagination and cleverness. I just don't spend it all pretending i'm some wizard or whatever like a four year old. As I said, computer games are made for a broader audience(i.e. more normal people). Only hardcore nerds play that D&D crap, i'd rather see computerized versions of it that are more geared towards the masses(see Star Wars:Knights of the Old Republic 1 & 2).



As I said, only hardcore nerds are so involved in it that they do all that.

And why, precisely, should everything be geared towards the masses? My preferred RPG system is Wushu, creating a character takes two minutes stat-wise. You pitch in, and the group of people work out how to tell a cool story together. Seems fairly easy to get the hang of to me.

Secondly, that 'D&D crap', as you so eloquently put it, ain't dead (4th edition was released the other day). Until someone can come up with a PC game that can match the social, flexible, role-playing aspects of D&D, it's going to have a niche, and other systems also are.

As to the OP, I'd use the term generically for both categories. If I needed to qualify, tabletop gamers (WH40k and the like), video/computer gamers (WOW, FPSs, etc), and gamers (Pen and paper RPGs, like it was meant to be).

Gaming, as in the OP's strict sense would exclude video gaming. Specifically because I've always found games as a medium to socialise with people. The only difference between gaming and going to the pub is that when I'm gaming I'm actually concious of the fact that I don't have the extraordinary powers I profess to have.

Gaming for me is like an NS meet only I probably know the people before hand and there's a bit of dice throwing or card shuffling sometimes.

edit: and video games just tend to be quite solitary. Especially RPGs. Though racing games and football games can be quite social if you're all in one room.

Gaming, as in the OP's strict sense would exclude video gaming. Specifically because I've always found games as a medium to socialise with people.

Uhh, there's this whole multiplayer idea you may have missed out on...

Uhh, there's this whole multiplayer idea you may have missed out on...It's not the same. You can't really pause a multiplayer game if it's online. Whereas with a tabletop game you can, often to the fury of the DM who has spent ages conceiving the game.

It's not the same. You can't really pause a multiplayer game if it's online. Whereas with a tabletop game you can, often to the fury of the DM who has spent ages conceiving the game.

Who said online? Did I say online? I don't think I said it.

Who said online? Did I say online? I don't think I said it.Then what the fuck were you talking about? I have no idea what you're talking about without making that assumption. Especially... oh, maybe you didn't get to read my edit in time.

Then what the fuck were you talking about? I have no idea what you're talking about without making that assumption. Especially... oh, maybe you didn't get to read my edit in time.

and I'd disagree with the edit. Even in a one player game, more people can be involved.

(you do, for the record, realize there's video games with multiplayer modes, right? Including and outside of genres such as Racing, RPG, and Football.)

and I'd disagree with the edit. Even in a one player game, more people can be involved.

(you do, for the record, realize there's video games with multiplayer modes, right? Including and outside of genres such as Racing, RPG, and Football.)

Thank you Dina... "Strip Solitare" just popped into mind.

and I'd disagree with the edit. Even in a one player game, more people can be involved.Could you explain please?

(you do, for the record, realize there's video games with multiplayer modes, right? Including and outside of genres such as Racing, RPG, and Football.)I was listing the the first couple of genres that popped into my head.

I will say that my brother's LAN party (I think that's what it was called) where 16 people would show up at his and his neighbor's place to play Halo had that 'gamer' sense to it, but it didn't quite have the same feel as when the table top crowd gathers. And the experience is pretty narrow, what happens is only what can happen in the game, which I think is the key difference between electronic games and paper and pencil games.

And of course 'party games' are intoxicant imbibing good times.

I'll make another argument for the term 'gamers' going to the table top set-
They need a broad term in the way that video gamers don't.

The table top set includes role-players, war gamers, miniature gamers, card gamers, strategy gamers, LARPers (because nerds need someone even nerdier to make fun of...), etc.

They need a generic term.

My perspective: If you enjoy tabletop roleplaying/wargaming, you are a gamer. No questions asked. If you are a Retro gamer, you are a specific type of gamer. If you enjoy video games as a primary hobby, you are a Gamer (uppercase G) as long as your games are not restricted to the following categories:

Sports sims
Platformers
Specifically party/gimmick games (eg. Mario Party, DDR, Guitar Hero)
Beat 'em ups
Movie/anime/cartoon/TV licence games
The Sims

If this encompasses the entire of your game collection, you are a casual gamer (lowercase g).

I must say, if we're going on common usage, your friend is seriously in the minority; when people say gamers, they mean video-gamers, in common parlance, given that most people, I'd imagine, do not even contemplate table-top gaming more than one or two times a year, if at all.

True gamers are those computer gamers who scoff at video gamers :cool:

I must say, if we're going on common usage, your friend is seriously in the minority; when people say gamers, they mean video-gamers, in common parlance, given that most people, I'd imagine, do not even contemplate table-top gaming more than one or two times a year, if at all.
actually, go to any store that someone calls a Gaming Store and you will find P&G and other games outnumbering any Video Game in that store.

Gamers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamers)

Historically, a gamer was usually someone who played role-playing games or war games but more recently the term includes computer and video game players as well. While the term technically includes those who don't necessarily consider themselves to be gamers (i.e., casual gamers) it is commonly used to identify people who spend much of their leisure time playing or reading about games.

So Common Usage is still leaning towards RPGers and WAR gamers.

Table top elitists can get kicked in the nads.

Poll needs multiple choices.

The first three are gamers in my personal dictionary.

Table top elitists can get kicked in the nads.

Aren't you one of those guys that goes on about how PC gaming is soooooo superior to console gaming?

I will say that my brother's LAN party (I think that's what it was called) where 16 people would show up at his and his neighbor's place to play Halo had that 'gamer' sense to it, but it didn't quite have the same feel as when the table top crowd gathers. And the experience is pretty narrow, what happens is only what can happen in the game, which I think is the key difference between electronic games and paper and pencil games.

And of course 'party games' are intoxicant imbibing good times.

I'll make another argument for the term 'gamers' going to the table top set-
They need a broad term in the way that video gamers don't.

The table top set includes role-players, war gamers, miniature gamers, card gamers, strategy gamers, LARPers (because nerds need someone even nerdier to make fun of...), etc.

They need a generic term.

WoW has Role-Play servers(even though they're often abused). There are plenty of Strategy Games, and that includes war(if you're using the way I think you are), a converted form of miniature games, and strategy.

And I believe the term should apply to table-top and video gamers.

Although there are more video gamers now-a-days than table-top gamers and the term is used much more often to specify video gamers.

WoW has Role-Play servers(even though they're often abused). There are plenty of Strategy Games, and that includes war(if you're using the way I think you are), a converted form of miniature games, and strategy.

"Role play" servers don't really equal the pencil and paper experience anymore than they do here.

The rest of it I'm not sure what you're demonstrating.

to me gamers are people that play video games. but not everyone that has in the past picked up a NES controller. they are people who actually follow the industry.

i used to be a gamer but for some reason or other have fallen back to a casual gamer. i dont care to keep up with the latest trends happened around the time everyone flocked to the crappy game known as Halo.

real gamers play vidoes games. the peolle who play table top games are not gamers. they are geeks. A gamer can be anyone, while it takes a special kind of nut to play D&D.

Oh HELL no you didn't..."geek" has a more positive connotation these days, and is often applied to IT professionals, as well as electronic tinkerers.

i used to be a gamer but for some reason or other have fallen back to a casual gamer. i dont care to keep up with the latest trends happened around the time everyone flocked to the crappy game known as Halo.


I've been playing that game for a long time and I can say that I am not playing it because everyone else is, I do it because I enjoy it like most people who flocked to the series.
I wonder why everyone would flock to a "crappy" game? Maybe because it's actually good is the reason. Holo is the most underated overated game ever.

Oh, I have plenty of imagination and cleverness. I just don't spend it all pretending i'm some wizard or whatever like a four year old. As I said, computer games are made for a broader audience(i.e. more normal people). Only hardcore nerds play that D&D crap, i'd rather see computerized versions of it that are more geared towards the masses(see Star Wars:Knights of the Old Republic 1 & 2).

As I said, only hardcore nerds are so involved in it that they do all that.

Why the anti-nerd tirade? It's plenty more creative to make the game than to passively let it play you. The whole "normal people" thing? You used that as an NSG poster? I'd laugh if I thought you were joking.

Video games are fun, sure. But there's nothing in any of them that allows the expression of your personality among friends, relating to actual human beings. As for your yearning to be part of "the masses", that's your problem.

And if you can find a way to do the essentials without stopping...

...then you're my freaking hero.

My perspective: If you enjoy tabletop roleplaying/wargaming, you are a gamer. No questions asked. If you are a Retro gamer, you are a specific type of gamer. If you enjoy video games as a primary hobby, you are a Gamer (uppercase G) as long as your games are not restricted to the following categories:

Sports sims
Platformers
Specifically party/gimmick games (eg. Mario Party, DDR, Guitar Hero)
Beat 'em ups
Movie/anime/cartoon/TV licence games
The Sims

If this encompasses the entire of your game collection, you are a casual gamer (lowercase g).

Sounds reasonable.

Capital G's have at least one rare game in their hoards. Oddballs like Katamari Damacy, Culdcept, Beyond Good & Evil, Final Fantasy Tactics, Skullmonkeys and the like.

I'll buy that.

I always thought you could call both groups gamers.

Sounds reasonable.

Capital G's have at least one rare game in their hoards. Oddballs like Katamari Damacy, Culdcept, Beyond Good & Evil, Final Fantasy Tactics, Skullmonkeys and the like.

I'll buy that.

I think it's a silly distinction. I can get into Mario Kart as much as any other game.

http://www.xkcd.com/290/

Click Stand;12987874']I've been playing that game for a long time and I can say that I am not playing it because everyone else is, I do it because I enjoy it like most people who flocked to the series.
I wonder why everyone would flock to a "crappy" game? Maybe because it's actually good is the reason. Holo is the most underated overated game ever.

Thank you.

You know, its pretty retarded to say that video games are just punching buttons and don't require imagination whatsoever. Many tabletop wargames (Warhammer series for example, yes I know its not definitive but it will do for what I am talking about) have the background set for you and actually require very little in the way of imagination. I played it for five years and yes, I consider those five years full of imagination, but you do not need said imagination nor is it even a prerequisite to playing. I know many people who play without an imagination.

Now I play all sorts of video games. Mostly FPS (Counterstrike and Battlefield series) and RTS (Hearts of Iron, Company of Heroes) and, yes, FPS doesn't require much imagination. That doesn't mean you can't apply imagination; when I play FPS I like to immerse myself in the game, I like to pretend that I am an American soldier gunning down hordes of hadjis. You don't have to do this, but this is one of the wonders of modern gaming that you can, if you want to, excercise your imagination while playing it. You certainly can't do that with Doom.

When I play RTS I often write AARS [after actio nreports, very popular for HOI2] where I can excercise my imagination. I often imagine the battles, 'get to know' the Generals and make my own favourites. I don't play the game to win, I play them to have fun, and I personally need to use my imagination for that. In some RTS games you actually need strategy; tactics, quick, on your feet, decision making; do I build volksgrenadiers or a 3rd mg42? He has a quad .50, what the fuck do I do know? Its basically a gigantic game of problem solving, step by step. If it doesn't require imagination to think up tactics to outwit your opponent every living second of the game then writing down the charisma of your troll as he beats the shit out of an elf ranger certainly isn't either.

The difference between pen+paper gaming is that you NEED imagination, whereas in video games you're given the OPPORTUNITY to use imagination.

not one hair of difference separates the word "gamer" from the word "gaymer".

That'd be funny if it wasn't so fucking moronic.

That'd be funny if it wasn't so fucking moronic.

Agreed.

I do not care for silly titles like gamer :)

I do think electronic and tabletop games are incomparable; they both have their niche.

Playing a tabletop game is foremost a social activity, to be enjoyed with other people. In this case the nature of the game is less important and dependent on the group. I like both complicated and less complicated games depending on who I am with.

The more complicated board games usually take more time so I seldom have the time to play those, but when I do it is a planned social occasion including a fair amount of drinks and dinner arrangements.

Pencil and paper games can be great, but are extremely dependent on the people you play with. If you have a brilliant game master, they can be far better than similar PC games. A pc is generally a slightly above average game master. These games have very peculiar social interaction because it takes place both in in-game and out-of-game situations. When played with witty and imaginative friends they can be great fun, otherwise don’t bother.

Computer games are fun when I do not feel like watching TV, browsing the internet or reading the paper etc. For me it is quite and individual activity, with certain exceptions (playing mariocart with my girlfriend, for example). Even on those rare occasions that I play online with people I know, it is totally different from being in the same room. :)

If your friend is really that concerned about the term "gamer," then he obviously isn't actually PLAYING anything. He's got far too much of his sense of self wrapped up in this crap.

I play games, of varying types. If somebody wants to refer to me as a "gamer," then I suppose that's as accurate as if somebody called me a "runner" because I like to run in my free time.

Games are to play. Games are for enjoyment. Don't get played by them.

When I play RTS I often write AARS [after actio nreports, very popular for HOI2] where I can excercise my imagination. I often imagine the battles, 'get to know' the Generals and make my own favourites.

The difference between pen+paper gaming is that you NEED imagination, whereas in video games you're given the OPPORTUNITY to use imagination.

Maybe that's why I don't really like P&P games - I don't want to write shit like that in real life to be paid for, much less for fun.

Games are to play. Games are for enjoyment. Don't get played by them.

QFT

and a shocking truth that is ;)

Why the anti-nerd tirade? It's plenty more creative to make the game than to passively let it play you. The whole "normal people" thing? You used that as an NSG poster? I'd laugh if I thought you were joking.

Video games are fun, sure. But there's nothing in any of them that allows the expression of your personality among friends, relating to actual human beings. As for your yearning to be part of "the masses", that's your problem.

No anti-nerd tirade, merely pointing out that video games have a much wider audience and make much more money.

In the end, video games are for the more casual gamers. And in the sense, video gamers outnumber the d&d type. And we get to define which is a gamer.

A gamer is someone who plays The Game :p

No anti-nerd tirade, merely pointing out that video games have a much wider audience and make much more money.

In the end, video games are for the more casual gamers. And in the sense, video gamers outnumber the d&d type. And we get to define which is a gamer.

You know, given your opinions of D&D and such, I'm not even going to bother arguing with you. I do, however, think that you're wrong.

If your friend is really that concerned about the term "gamer," then he obviously isn't actually PLAYING anything. He's got far too much of his sense of self wrapped up in this crap.

I play games, of varying types. If somebody wants to refer to me as a "gamer," then I suppose that's as accurate as if somebody called me a "runner" because I like to run in my free time.

Games are to play. Games are for enjoyment. Don't get played by them.
Well, in his defense, he's not red in the face stomping around about it. It was a half assed conversation in the car one day that I thought I'd pose to the lot here for the heck of it. It's not an intense campaign of his or anything. And he's a fiend for video games as well as table top, he just doesn't play video game RPGs that much.

No anti-nerd tirade, merely pointing out that video games have a much wider audience and make much more money.

In the end, video games are for the more casual gamers. And in the sense, video gamers outnumber the d&d type. And we get to define which is a gamer.

That's like saying people that casually engage in politics are more numerous, so they get to decide who gets the name of politician.

To me, the term gamer applies to tabletop RPG's and war games, as well as the more serious RP card games (Magic: The Gathering etc) and also to people who are serious PC gamers, regardless of genre.

By a serious gamer, I mean the people who play online, a dozen or more hours a week, and not just those who play MMORPG's like WOW or Everquest. The bigger online FPS and RTS games have gamers as well. While many CS players are jackasses, they are still gamers. Other examples in the FPS category include Battlefield 2, Splinter Cell and Ghost Recon. For RTS you have Age of Empires, Warcraft and Starcraft, (you have to be a serious gamer to keep playing those dinosaurs), also Command & Conquer and Empire Earth.

To me, the term gamer applies to tabletop RPG's and war games, as well as the more serious RP card games (Magic: The Gathering etc) and also to people who are serious PC gamers, regardless of genre.

By a serious gamer, I mean the people who play online, a dozen or more hours a week, and not just those who play MMORPG's like WOW or Everquest. The bigger online FPS and RTS games have gamers as well. While many CS players are jackasses, they are still gamers. Other examples in the FPS category include Battlefield 2, Splinter Cell and Ghost Recon. For RTS you have Age of Empires, Warcraft and Starcraft, (you have to be a serious gamer to keep playing those dinosaurs), also Command & Conquer and Empire Earth.

I like UT2k4. For some weird reason, nothing helps me unwind better than going into a sniper server, and camping, waiting for an unsuspecting melon to wander into my line of sight...pink cloud time.

I like UT2k4. For some weird reason, nothing helps me unwind better than going into a sniper server, and camping, waiting for an unsuspecting melon to wander into my line of sight...pink cloud time.

Yeah, that's another good one. I seem to have forgotten Quake as well.