NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/4221949

I don't know how we as a civilized nation can stand this, it is disgusting.

A man, innocent of murder (which is acknowledged by all including the state) is sentenced to death in Texas for a crime he did not commit.
How can the state let this happen?

Because it's Texas, they get antsy if they don't get a certain amount of executions

Also, we already had a thread on this a while ago, so you know.

Did you expect anything else from Texas?

How can the state let this happen?
It's Texas, what do you expect?

Everyone who responded at 10:48 UTC apparently has a bad impression of Texas.

Everyone who responded at 10:48 UTC apparently has a bad impression of Texas.

Well they're killing a man for associating with a murder. That makes me want to criticise them from a safe distance.

Because it's Texas, they get antsy if they don't get a certain amount of executions

Also, we already had a thread on this a while ago, so you know.

Missed it :) sorry I did not see it

It's Texas, what do you expect?

I suppose, they were the ones to boo bill nye for blasphemy at telling them that the moon actually reflects light not make light.

In 1956, a crack team of military commandos was sent to prison from a crime they didn't commit...

It's Texas, what do you expect?

*To the rhythm of "Here comes the sun"*

They'll kill a man
An innocent...

It's Texas...

In 1956, a crack team of military commandos was sent to prison from a crime they didn't commit...

Now all we need is a prompt escape from a maximum security stockade.

Everyone who responded at 10:48 UTC apparently has a bad impression of Texas.

I wonder why they would.

I suppose, they were the ones to boo bill nye for blasphemy at telling them that the moon actually reflects light not make light.
What?!

They booed Bill Nye?!

Now that's blasphemy.

In 1956, a crack team of military commandos was sent to prison from a crime they didn't commit...

?

In 1956, a crack team of military commandos was sent to prison from a crime they didn't commit...
Do you mean 1972
http://jamesaubrey.blogspirit.com/images/medium_the-a-team.jpg

What?!

They booed Bill Nye?!

Now that's blasphemy.

Forget it Dakini, it's Texastown

http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/4221949

I don't know how we as a civilized nation can stand this, it is disgusting.

A man, innocent of murder (which is acknowledged by all including the state) is sentenced to death in Texas for a crime he did not commit.
How can the state let this happen?

Don't blame the country, the states are responsible for their laws.

?

See picture

http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/4221949

I don't know how we as a civilized nation can stand this, it is disgusting.

A man, innocent of murder (which is acknowledged by all including the state) is sentenced to death in Texas for a crime he did not commit.
How can the state let this happen?

Would you prefere he had life w/o parole for a crime he didn't commit?

The Problem isn't the Death Penalty, but the stupid "law of parties" that got him convicted in the first place.

What?!

They booed Bill Nye?!

Now that's blasphemy.

Blasphemy? THIS IS TEXAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAS!

Also, I hate it here. Some of the most unreasonable, callous people you'll ever meet.

In related news(sort of) the NS A-Team is composed of:
Deus Malum-Hannibal
Gravlen-Faceman
Lunatic Goofballs-Howlin' Mad Murdoch
Ifreann-B.A. Barracus

If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find us, maybe you can hire.....The A-Team
*cue intro*

See picture

I don't see the picture...

Forget it Dakini, it's Texastown
but... but... but...

it's Bill Nye! He's awesome!

but... but... but...

it's Bill Nye! He's awesome!

As I understand it, yes. But Science has no power in Texas.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/4221949

I don't know how we as a civilized nation can stand this, it is disgusting.

A man, innocent of murder (which is acknowledged by all including the state) is sentenced to death in Texas for a crime he did not commit.
How can the state let this happen?

Well, my first thought was because he was black, and this is taking place in Texas.

Sure enough, I was right.

All it is is old fashioned Southern racism.

Pretty disgusting stuff.

Do you mean 1972

Yes. I knew I got that date wrong...

this is so crazy its all the way beyond insane and into the realm of calculated and uncaring evil.

Would you prefere he had life w/o parole for a crime he didn't commit?

The Problem isn't the Death Penalty, but the stupid "law of parties" that got him convicted in the first place.

of course that is preferable. at least then there would be some chance, no matter how slim, of a successful appeal. once he's dead there's is no appeal. the law of parties is stupid, but no stupider than the death penalty.

Just proves to me the odious nature of the death penalty, in a whole new manner.

Would you prefere he had life w/o parole for a crime he didn't commit?

The Problem isn't the Death Penalty, but the stupid "law of parties" that got him convicted in the first place.

At least he could continue to try to get it overturned ... some chance is way better then no chance

Unforunately he isn't the first innocent to be jailed and or killed by the government in all there imagined wisdom.

I wonder why they would.

Well, in my case it's because I grew up there.

As I understand it, yes. But Science has no power in Texas.
It should.

*pouts*

Unforunately he isn't the first innocent to be jailed and or killed by the government in all there imagined wisdom.

Many Christians who support the death penalty are under this opinion(Almost every one of them I have met):

God will sort out the innocent.

Yep. That should tell you something right there.

of course that is preferable. at least then there would be some chance, no matter how slim, of a successful appeal. once he's dead there's is no appeal. the law of parties is stupid, but no stupider than the death penalty.

At least he could continue to try to get it overturned ... some chance is way better then no chance

The DP allows for a limited number of Appeals to be filed and processed. this is a requirement in some states, dunno about Texas tho. But I do think one of the articles did state he used his LAST appeal. thus the only saving grace he has is a Pardon from the Gov.

Even Life w/o Parole you have a limited number of Appeals. Once those are exhausted, that's it. Once the last appeal is denied... he's stuck in jail for the rest of his life.

Even if there wasn't an Appeal Limit, it's the Taxpayers who pay for the board to review each appeal, that means a flood of appeals, legit or not, costs the taxpayers of that state each and every time.

The DP allows for a limited number of Appeals to be filed and processed. this is a requirement in some states, dunno about Texas tho. But I do think one of the articles did state he used his LAST appeal. thus the only saving grace he has is a Pardon from the Gov.

Even Life w/o Parole you have a limited number of Appeals. Once those are exhausted, that's it. Once the last appeal is denied... he's stuck in jail for the rest of his life.

Even if there wasn't an Appeal Limit, it's the Taxpayers who pay for the board to review each appeal, that means a flood of appeals, legit or not, costs the taxpayers of that state each and every time.

There's always the chance for parole, no?

Not withstanding the pure idiocy of this law.

There's always the chance for parole, no?

Not withstanding the pure idiocy of this law.

Parole for Life W/O Parole?

Parole for Life W/O Parole?

Not all life sentences are life w/o parole.

Not all life sentences are life w/o parole.

true, but I stated Life w/o Parole, being that would be the harshest punishment if the DP was removed.

true, but I stated Life w/o Parole, being that would be the harshest punishment if the DP was removed.

There is the chance of a pardon or possibly a change in law that is retroactively effective is there not?

There is the chance of a pardon or possibly a change in law that is retroactively effective is there not?

there is that chance, yes.

but with a change in law, there would be no monetary payout since it wasn't wrongful imprisonment. thus the possiblity of no compensation other than "you're free'. the State took how many years from this man's life and left him with nothing.

if it's pardon, well, he still has that chance before the 30th. he could even get a stay in excecution.

the point however is that using this case as a case against DP is not accurate, using this case against that stupid law of parties is. I would rather get that stupid law removed then go after the DP.

Blasphemy? THIS IS TEXAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAS!http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42698000/jpg/_42698253_300_yahoo203.jpg

This is TOTAL insanity.

God bless America?

there is that chance, yes.

but with a change in law, there would be no monetary payout since it wasn't wrongful imprisonment. thus the possiblity of no compensation other than "you're free'. the State took how many years from this man's life and left him with nothing.

if it's pardon, well, he still has that chance before the 30th. he could even get a stay in excecution.

the point however is that using this case as a case against DP is not accurate, using this case against that stupid law of parties is. I would rather get that stupid law removed then go after the DP.

I dont think it is right for sure ... even in the best case this guy is missing out on a lot

But at least he would not be DEAD if the DP did not exist he would have SOME chance beyond the end of the month

I dont think it is right for sure ... even in the best case this guy is missing out on a lot

But at least he would not be DEAD if the DP did not exist he would have SOME chance beyond the end of the month

The problem isn't the DP but the "Law of Parties"

had that law NOT been in effect, he won't even be in jail, much less on Death Row. arguing about the DP and focusing only on the DP makes it seem that him getting Life with or without parole is OK with you even when he didn't pull the trigger, nor have prior knowledge of the murder.

The problem isn't the DP but the "Law of Parties"

had that law NOT been in effect, he won't even be in jail, much less on Death Row. arguing about the DP and focusing only on the DP makes it seem that him getting Life with or without parole is OK with you even when he didn't pull the trigger, nor have prior knowledge of the murder.

Its not "ok" with me its just marginally more OK then the DP

He decided to live in Texas, he knew the risks.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/4221949

I don't know how we as a civilized nation can stand this, it is disgusting.

A man, innocent of murder (which is acknowledged by all including the state) is sentenced to death in Texas for a crime he did not commit.
How can the state let this happen?


It's Texas. They always wanna kill someone. Sure Kenneth Foster did nothing to help the victim, but he doesn't deserve death.

I think, like many things, the law's purpose was good. However, its been overstressed now. He shouldn't be killed if its obviouse there was no intent to drive a shooter to murder a man. However, removal of the death penalty isn't the right way to handle this situation. That'd be an overreaction. Some people are dangerouse to a point where its better to kill them quickly and just stop worrying about it. (Ted Bundy is probably a good example.) I think the law needs a major rewrite because of this though.

I think, like many things, the law's purpose was good. However, its been overstressed now. He shouldn't be killed if its obviouse there was no intent to drive a shooter to murder a man. However, removal of the death penalty isn't the right way to handle this situation. That'd be an overreaction. Some people are dangerouse to a point where its better to kill them quickly and just stop worrying about it. (Ted Bundy is probably a good example.) I think the law needs a major rewrite because of this though.

This fits as an example of why the death penalty is wrong, because it is a case where an innocent man (Guilty of at most negligence) will be put to death. I have long felt that it would be better for a murderer to go free than for an innocent man to be put to death, because the second makes murderers of us all.

If he goes to jail, and a year later the law changes, he's lost a year of his life to a mistake. If he gets the death penalty, then he loses all his years.

He decided to live in Texas, he knew the risks.As a black man.

In related news(sort of) the NS A-Team is composed of:
Deus Malum-Hannibal
Gravlen-Faceman
Lunatic Goofballs-Howlin' Mad Murdoch
Ifreann-B.A. Barracus

If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find us, maybe you can hire.....The A-Team
*cue intro*

Yay! *starts making a sock puppet*

He decided to live in Texas, he knew the risks.

QFT.

Quoted For Tacos. *nod*

God will sort out the innocent.Your arrogance towards the man to be executed is unbelievable.

QFT.

Quoted For Tacos. *nod*This issue seems to have some humorous element for you. Maybe then it isn't that bad after all and you should share this man's fate?

Texas isn't that where Georgie Bush comes from ?
No wonder he wanted the whole of Iraq to play hangman in !

Texas isn't that where Georgie Bush comes from ?
No wonder he wanted the whole of Iraq to play hangman in !

Bush isnt from Texas.

Bush isnt from Texas.But he's been raised there and became governor there.

because the second makes murderers of us all.

Of course, once you divide the death amongst the 300 million of us, it kinda comes down to a very light tickling with a feather.

Yay! *starts making a sock puppet*

*lights cigar*

Oh hey, we need to get to work on getting Ifreann over the Pond. Preferrably using some sort of...catapult. Or perhaps a trebuchet.

Your arrogance towards the man to be executed is unbelievable.

... context is your friend. :rolleyes:

I agree with Junii.

Its not "ok" with me its just marginally more OK then the DP

But we should abolish life imprisonment because a lesser term of imprisonment would be marginally more OK, but then it follows we should abolish prisons because not sending the man to prison would be marginally...

etc.

The death penalty is hardly causing this problem. The problem is a fucking stupid law.

Your arrogance towards the man to be executed is unbelievable.

Man you are completely incapable of grasping the concept of context, aren't you?

As I understand it, yes. But Science has no power in Texas.

Who's Bill Nye? Is he like Johny Ball?

The DP allows for a limited number of Appeals to be filed and processed. this is a requirement in some states, dunno about Texas tho. But I do think one of the articles did state he used his LAST appeal. thus the only saving grace he has is a Pardon from the Gov.

Even Life w/o Parole you have a limited number of Appeals. Once those are exhausted, that's it. Once the last appeal is denied... he's stuck in jail for the rest of his life.

Even if there wasn't an Appeal Limit, it's the Taxpayers who pay for the board to review each appeal, that means a flood of appeals, legit or not, costs the taxpayers of that state each and every time.

Not again! An angry mob shouting who foots the bill, it's us the tax payer. It's a nonsense argument designed only to get emotions running high.

Ask your self, each and every time one of these appeals takes place, how much extra does the tax man ask from you? Or everytime it gets dark and the street lights are turned on, how much extra does the tax man ask from you?

In both cases the answer is nil. You pay your tax, you pay the same rate of tax, whether legal appeals increase or the need for street lighting increases, your tax stays the same.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/4221949

I don't know how we as a civilized nation can stand this, it is disgusting.

A man, innocent of murder (which is acknowledged by all including the state) is sentenced to death in Texas for a crime he did not commit.
How can the state let this happen?
Note the bolded portions.

Texas likes to kill children, the mentally disabled, and women who were terrorized by their husbands. Texas is a sadistic little kid who sees everybody as a butterfly with wings just waiting to be torn off.

There are good people in Texas. I've got two very good Texan friends. There is hope for Texas. But right now Texas embodies all the ugliest and most pathetic flaws in America. Religious fundamentalism, racism, misogyny, homophobia, corruption, pointless violence, you name it.

But right now Texas embodies all the ugliest and most pathetic flaws in America. Religious fundamentalism, racism, misogyny, homophobia, corruption, pointless violence, you name it.

Ohh are they also cheese eating surrender monkeys?

Ohh are they also cheese eating surrender monkeys?
No, Texas is a Viagra customer who is desperate to find a gun big enough to compensate.

No, Texas is a Viagra customer who is desperate to find a gun big enough to compensate.

Heh that's funny. I really wouldn't know about Texas, being a Brit who has never been to the States, but I do know that one of my faverite authours comes from there.

Heh that's funny. I really wouldn't know about Texas, being a Brit who has never been to the States, but I do know that one of my faverite authours comes from there.

Authours? Now you crazy Brits are just messing with us.

Man you are completely incapable of grasping the concept of context, aren't you?Sorry. Then their arrogance towards the man to be executed is unbelievable.

Authours? Now you crazy Brits are just messing with us.

Heh now, that may be how to spell it and it may not be, I really don't know, but I think that it is correct.

No, Texas is a Viagra customer who is desperate to find a gun big enough to compensate.
Alaska being bigger gives Texas penis envy so they have to kill people and buy bigger guns to look bigger.

... context is your friend. :rolleyes:

I agree with Junii.



But we should abolish life imprisonment because a lesser term of imprisonment would be marginally more OK, but then it follows we should abolish prisons because not sending the man to prison would be marginally...

etc.

The death penalty is hardly causing this problem. The problem is a fucking stupid law.

But the death penalty is the one kicking him in the head at the end of the month and removing all possibility of improving the situation

But the death penalty is the one kicking him in the head at the end of the month and removing all possibility of improving the situation

The situation would not exist in the first place.

The man broke the law. He deserves to be executed. Say all you want that he's "innocent"; a jury of his peers found him guilty, and a judge sentenced him to death. All that is happening is that his sentence is being carried out. The system works. To go and take it back is to make people doubt the justice system.

OK, now that I have that out of my system, this sucks. But then again, it is Texas, and they're obviously behind on their execution quota. Wouldn't want Ol' Sparky to get rusty, would we?

The situation would not exist in the first place.

I agree thats the best solution ... but again the death penalty is the final blow the one causing the end to this

The situation would not exist without the crappy law

But he would at least not be dead without the death penalty

I agree thats the best solution ... but again the death penalty is the final blow the one causing the end to this

The situation would not exist without the crappy law

But he would at least not be dead without the death penalty

Fat lot of good his life would be anyways.

Let's try this again. Without the party bit, he goes off free. Without the death penalty, he spends his life in prison. The death penalty is not the point of this. I'm sure there must be something else out there you can use to grind your ax, but this is a bit too much of a stretch. You call the man innocent. Shouldn't an innocent man not be in prison at all? If so, the death penalty isn't the issue here, because that's not what put him in jail for the rest of his life (however long that is...). Alternatively you were just trying to jerk some tears with the "innocent" bit, but whatever.

Fat lot of good his life would be anyways.

Let's try this again. Without the party bit, he goes off free. Without the death penalty, he spends his life in prison. The death penalty is not the point of this. I'm sure there must be something else out there you can use to grind your ax, but this is a bit too much of a stretch. You call the man innocent. Shouldn't an innocent man not be in prison at all? If so, the death penalty isn't the issue here, because that's not what put him in jail for the rest of his life (however long that is...). Alternatively you were just trying to jerk some tears with the "innocent" bit, but whatever.

No without the death penalty at least he has a chance to do something with his life

With he has no chance

Simple as that

No without the death penalty at least he has a chance to do something with his life

With he has no chance

Simple as that

You aren't paying attention are you? Focus this time. There wouldn't even be an issue of whether or not he can do something with his life (whatever that's supposed to mean) if he wasn't in jail. All this "he'd be alive, he'd be aliiiiive!"; come on, he'd be alive if he wasn't convicted too. And, wait for it, he'd also not be in jail the rest of his life.

Hearing this? Death penalty. Not the issue.

Incidentally, you seem to have dropped the "innocent man" spiel.

You aren't paying attention are you? Focus this time. There wouldn't even be an issue of whether or not he can do something with his life (whatever that's supposed to mean) if he wasn't in jail. All this "he'd be alive, he'd be aliiiiive!"; come on, he'd be alive if he wasn't convicted too. And, wait for it, he'd also not be in jail the rest of his life.

Hearing this? Death penalty. Not the issue.

Incidentally, you seem to have dropped the "innocent man" spiel.

I absolutely agree that it is a bad law that should be gotten rid of and if so this particular situation would not be a problem. I have never disputed that, focus this time. The law's existence and his conviction do not mitigate the fact that this guy (innocent sense you seem to want me to re-enforce that every post) is going to die at the end of this month because of the death penalties existence.

The reason he is on death row right or wrong do not detract from the fact that the state is allowed to kill an (just for you again) innocent man.

I absolutely agree that it is a bad law that should be gotten rid of and if so this particular situation would not be a problem. I have never disputed that, focus this time. The law's existence and his conviction do not mitigate the fact that this guy (innocent sense you seem to want me to re-enforce that every post) is going to die at the end of this month because of the death penalties existence.

The reason he is on death row right or wrong do not detract from the fact that the state is allowed to kill an (just for you again) innocent man.

'Cept that there party law is what allowed them to kill said innocent man, no?

'Cept that there party law is what allowed them to kill said innocent man, no?

Both I would say without the stupid law to put him there and without the ability to kill someone. he would not be slated to die.

I guess I kind of think of it like motive and method to a death

Without a motive and without a method he would not be dead

It would be great if there were no motive but it is also bad to leave the state with the method as well.

the state is allowed to kill an (just for you again) innocent man.

As I said before, I'm sure there's something else out there you can grind your ax on. Why not go out and find someone who -isn't- innocent, but is still on death row. Then perhaps we can get arguing about the death penalty. Or, heck, you could probably just start a topic about the death penalty, put up a couple wiki articles and work from there. This particular topic doesn't quite work because, well, he's innocent apparently, he should even be in jail to begin with, much less subject to death. I'm far more concerned with the fact an innocent man can be imprisoned at all. and that's not the death penalty's fault, not here.

Both I would say without the stupid law to put him there and without the ability to kill someone. he would not be slated to die.

I guess I kind of think of it like motive and method to a death

Without a motive and without a method he would not be dead

It would be great if there were no motive but it is also bad to leave the state with the method as well.

Err...but if there was a motive and no method that's....that's what? daydreaming about killing someone? Kidnapping them? Which would equate to life in prison...I think.

As I said before, I'm sure there's something else out there you can grind your ax on. Why not go out and find someone who -isn't- innocent, but is still on death row. Then perhaps we can get arguing about the death penalty. Or, heck, you could probably just start a topic about the death penalty, put up a couple wiki articles and work from there. This particular topic doesn't quite work because, well, he's innocent apparently, he should even be in jail to begin with, much less subject to death. I'm far more concerned with the fact an innocent man can be imprisoned at all. and that's not the death penalty's fault, not here.

The original point I guess was not just to grind an axe on the death penalty though it has turned into that but to put home the point that someone who should be alive, will be dead at the end of this month because of the state

Maybe I made my title or post a little too pointed but still the man is going to be frigging dead

We know he should not be
The state knows he should not be

The court knows he should not be

WHY THE FUCK IS THIS GUY GOING TO DIE. for the love of god why is there not a better safety net then this

This is not like a car crash that is un-avoidable and there is nothing you can do to stop it in the instant it happens. This is not even an accidental killing of an innocent man that they just did not know at the time he was innocent.

Err...but if there was a motive and no method that's....that's what? daydreaming about killing someone? Kidnapping them? Which would equate to life in prison...I think.

But at least with life like I stated there is a chance he could become free ... and hope that something can change. Laws have been changed before with reto-active effects people have been pardoned before

Yeah it would suck there is no doubt about that, and he probably wont even get compensated for the time he has spent rotting in prison. But I would still take life with hope any day.

You aren't paying attention are you? Focus this time. There wouldn't even be an issue of whether or not he can do something with his life (whatever that's supposed to mean) if he wasn't in jail. All this "he'd be alive, he'd be aliiiiive!"; come on, he'd be alive if he wasn't convicted too. And, wait for it, he'd also not be in jail the rest of his life.

Hearing this? Death penalty. Not the issue.

Incidentally, you seem to have dropped the "innocent man" spiel.

I think we all know that. However the title of the thread makes it clear that the OP thinks the death penalty is an issue, and it certianly is.

So we are talking about two crappy laws then.

WHY THE FUCK IS THIS GUY GOING TO DIE. for the love of god why is there not a better safety net then this

And here's the thing. In my mind, it's more "WHO THE HELL PUT THIS GUY IN JAIL ANYWAYS?" cuz, really, that has to happen first, no? How does the phrase go...Nip it in the bud? *shrug*

It is a problem with the criminal justice system itself, and our excessively legalistic paradigm, not the principle of capital punishment.

I think we all know that. However the title of the thread makes it clear that the OP thinks the death penalty is an issue, and it certianly is.

So we are talking about two crappy laws then.

I think the death penalty has it's place. This obviously isn't it. :p

Yeah it would suck there is no doubt about that, and he probably wont even get compensated for the time he has spent rotting in prison. But I would still take life with hope any day.

And again, there's the thing. You have the options of death and life with some faint glimmer of hope. There is, of course, also the option of a free life, where he's not in jail at all, yanno?

It is a problem with the criminal justice system itself, and our excessively legalistic paradigm, not the principle of capital punishment.

If the death penalty was not an option would he be alive at the beginning of next month or not?

I would say they are both an issue here and both worth discussion

I think we all know that. However the title of the thread makes it clear that the OP thinks the death penalty is an issue, and it certianly is.

So we are talking about two crappy laws then.

Issue? Perhaps, but not for this topic.

Then again, who am I to go on about being on topic, eh? We could start over here, get an article with a guy who's supposed to be there and all...though that might confuse newcomers to the topic, when our subject is no longer an innocent man set to die on the 30th...

Meh, I'll think of something.

I think the death penalty has it's place. This obviously isn't it. :p

Well I think that a case can be made for the death penalty for evil clowns, but for normal people, nope I can't buy into that.:eek:

If the death penalty was not an option would he be alive at the beginning of next month or not?

I could say the same, you realize? You know, "if the party law thing was not..." et cetera, et cetera.

Though i'm against the death penalty, it does serve a purpose if done correctly.

In England, we don't have the death penalty, and thus we have overcrowding in jails. Because of this, we've been forced to release well over a thousand inmates, many being sex offenders.

Jolly(!)

Of course, America has the death penalty and still some of it's jails are overflowing, this could be put down to the "human rights" of such jailers, however, and how their Lawyers are able to continuously fight and delay their death sentence.

Anyway, the death sentence, in my opinion, is pointless. Only used so the loved ones of a victim can get some kind of revenge. This makes it, in my eyes, wrong.

What good really comes of it? Aside from removing somebody from society permanently, the answer is nothing.

Should we keep them alive at the taxpayers expense, then? Of course not, that's idiocy too.

My opinion is that we should sell repeat offenders to Medical Research facilities. We'd not only be removing said criminals from society permanently, but we'd be reducing the number of inmates, giving a true deterant and helping society with amazing medical advances.

I'm for the death penalty but against racism, which is obviously the key player here.

Mind you this incident doensn't represent the city of Austin.

Austin kicks ass, the rest of Texas can get washed away in a flood.

Build an ark and put Austin in it?

I'm for the death penalty but against racism, which is obviously the key player here.

Mind you this incident doensn't represent the city of Austin.

Austin kicks ass, the rest of Texas can get washed away in a flood.

If the death penalty was not an option would he be alive at the beginning of next month or not?

I would say they are both an issue here and both worth discussion

Valid observation, however, much as I wold enjoy the discussion, I must go to work (foully hungover if truth be told, results day was a little too raucous:().

Capital Punishment remains the only socially and economically prudent option in regard to incorrigable offenders, murderers, rapists and the like; however, due to the very final nature of it as a punitive measure, I would simply advocate better, and more assidious, judicial procedure.

Issue? Perhaps, but not for this topic.

Then again, who am I to go on about being on topic, eh? We could start over here, get an article with a guy who's supposed to be there and all...though that might confuse newcomers to the topic, when our subject is no longer an innocent man set to die on the 30th...

Meh, I'll think of something.

Meh whatever, but once again I'll point you to the title of the thread. The originator of this thread obviously wanted to discuss the death penalty, and is using this case to show how it is not a perfect system, and to highlight the injustice of it.

Surly then the originator of the thread trumps everybody else when it comes to saying what the discussion is supposed to be about?

I mean if you start a thread about chocolate, and I come in and tell everybody that it is in fact about icecream, you as the OP have the final say in what you wished to discuss, yes?

Meh whatever, but once again I'll point you to the title of the thread. The originator of this thread obviously wanted to discuss the death penalty, and is using this case to show how it is not a perfect system, and to highlight the injustice of it.

Surly then the originator of the thread trumps everybody else when it comes to saying what the discussion is supposed to be about?

I mean if you start a thread about chocolate, and I come in and tell everybody that it is in fact about icecream, you as the OP have the final say in what you wished to discuss, yes?

Hmm. Possibly. Then again, if I started a thread titled "Chocolate is awesome" and posted an an article about the health benefits of vanilla milkshakes...

Sides, eventually the OP doesn't have complete control...for example, I believe if a real discussion has developed (on topic, obviously), past a certain point, the OP can no longer have the thread locked...If I recall? Just an example...

Valid observation, however, much as I wold enjoy the discussion, I must go to work (foully hungover if truth be told, results day was a little too raucous:().

Capital Punishment remains the only socially and economically prudent option in regard to incorrigable offenders, murderers, rapists and the like; however, due to the very final nature of it as a punitive measure, I would simply advocate better, and more assidious, judicial procedure.

But what would the cost associated with that increased quality in judicial procedure be. If we are looking at it from a pure economic standpoint Capital punishment in its current form is NOT more economically prudent and making a better judicial system (which I absolutely think is something to strive for) will not help with that cost if this is an economic decision

But what would the cost associated with that increased quality in judicial procedure be. If we are looking at it from a pure economic standpoint Capital punishment in its current form is NOT more economically prudent and making a better judicial system (which I absolutely think is something to strive for) will not help with that cost if this is an economic decision

Economic standpoint? Saving money in the whole crime and punishment shebang? Well, let's start with this whole war on drugs bit and work from there. :)

Anyhow, a large part of the current cost of the death penalty is all the appeals, no?

Economic standpoint? Saving money in the whole crime and punishment shebang? Well, let's start with this whole war on drugs bit and work from there. :)

Anyhow, a large part of the current cost of the death penalty is all the appeals, no?
Large cost yeah (and I was going off the quoted posters reasoning ... sheer cost would not by my first worry, just wanted to be clear)

And with the current system, as this case shows it may not be the best thing to reduce them right about now. (appeals that is)

Hmm. Possibly. Then again, if I started a thread titled "Chocolate is awesome" and posted an an article about the health benefits of vanilla milkshakes...

Sides, eventually the OP doesn't have complete control...for example, I believe if a real discussion has developed (on topic, obviously), past a certain point, the OP can no longer have the thread locked...If I recall? Just an example...

Well yeah of course, freedom of speech and all that also, this being a public, relaltivly unmoderated forum also.

My point though was really the topic starts as what ever the OP wants it to be, and it is clear from the title of this tread that the OP wanted to talk about the death sentance.

So then any posts proclaiming that the death sentance is not the issue, is basicly just ignoring what the OP wanted to discus.

Not again! An angry mob shouting who foots the bill, it's us the tax payer. It's a nonsense argument designed only to get emotions running high.

Ask your self, each and every time one of these appeals takes place, how much extra does the tax man ask from you? Or everytime it gets dark and the street lights are turned on, how much extra does the tax man ask from you?

In both cases the answer is nil. You pay your tax, you pay the same rate of tax, whether legal appeals increase or the need for street lighting increases, your tax stays the same.So by your answer then, you just stated that the DP doesn't cost the State more or less. Nice. ;)


Surly then the originator of the thread trumps everybody else when it comes to saying what the discussion is supposed to be about?really? tell that to everyone who posts in RO/DK's threads then. :p

http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/4221949

I don't know how we as a civilized nation can stand this, it is disgusting.

A man, innocent of murder (which is acknowledged by all including the state) is sentenced to death in Texas for a crime he did not commit.
How can the state let this happen?

I still support the death penalty. The problem in this case is not the method of punishment, it's the fact that an innocent man is being punished.

So by your answer then, you just stated that the DP doesn't cost the State more or less. Nice. ;)

Heh good try but no, by my reasoning the DP doesn't cost the taxpayer more or less.


really? tell that to everyone who posts in RO/DK's threads then. :p


Ahhh differant rules for them two!;)

Wow.

Can't someone commute the sentence or something? Or does the state of Texas just need another human sacrifice to offer to the bloodthirsty Almighty?

:confused:

I suppose there's nothing like slowly poisoning to death an innocent man strapped to a table to give you a power rush.

Just proves to me the odious nature of the death penalty, in a whole new manner.

The nature of the death penalty is to enforce the sanctity of life, namely yours, by deterring future aggressors to seek alternative ways to exhibit their anger than by murdering.

Unfortunately, the death penalty is not, nor is there any known cure, for crimes of passion (namely when it results in a murder, as is the context of this post).

But again, as has been stated before, the issue is not the death penalty, it's the law of parties that is currently enacted under the Republic of Texas.

It should.

*pouts*
Yes, it should.
The problem isn't the DP but the "Law of Parties"

had that law NOT been in effect, he won't even be in jail, much less on Death Row. arguing about the DP and focusing only on the DP makes it seem that him getting Life with or without parole is OK with you even when he didn't pull the trigger, nor have prior knowledge of the murder.
Fat lot of good his life would be anyways.

Let's try this again. Without the party bit, he goes off free. Without the death penalty, he spends his life in prison. The death penalty is not the point of this. I'm sure there must be something else out there you can use to grind your ax, but this is a bit too much of a stretch. You call the man innocent. Shouldn't an innocent man not be in prison at all? If so, the death penalty isn't the issue here, because that's not what put him in jail for the rest of his life (however long that is...). Alternatively you were just trying to jerk some tears with the "innocent" bit, but whatever.
Actually he would be in jail for the robberies he committed earlier in the day.
Yay! *starts making a sock puppet*
:D
*lights cigar*

Oh hey, we need to get to work on getting Ifreann over the Pond. Preferrably using some sort of...catapult. Or perhaps a trebuchet.
I ain't gettin on no plane, fool.
Who's Bill Nye? Is he like Johny Ball?
He's the Science Guy.

The nature of the death penalty is to enforce the sanctity of life, namely yours, by deterring future aggressors to seek alternative ways to exhibit their anger than by murdering.

Unfortunately, the death penalty is not, nor is there any known cure, for crimes of passion (namely when it results in a murder, as is the context of this post).

But again, as has been stated before, the issue is not the death penalty, it's the law of parties that is currently enacted under the Republic of Texas.

And yet 124 people have been put on death row who were later released on new evidence * (sense 1973) ... how many more innosent people do you figure actually did not get the evidence before their death?
And is it worth it in light of the stats not backing up the "its a deterrent" claim so many make?

And yet 124 people have been put on death row who were later released on new evidence * (sense 1973) ... how many more innosent people do you figure actually did not get the evidence before their death?
And is it worth it in light of the stats not backing up the "its a deterrent" claim so many make?


you make an excellent point


however, that is not a reflection of the death penalty, it's a reflection of the justice system

because even without the death penalty, those same 124 people would have spent life in prison, and being innocent, that would STILL be a great injustice

you make an excellent point


however, that is not a reflection of the death penalty, it's a reflection of the justice system

because even without the death penalty, those same 124 people would have spent life in prison, and being innocent, that would STILL be a great injustice

those 124 people sure ... what about the ones that did not get caught before they were killed? at least they would still be alive without the DP
*edit and they would not have "spent" life in prison as they were exonerated

those 124 people sure ... what about the ones that did not get caught before they were killed? at least they would still be alive without the DP
*edit and they would not have "spent" life in prison as they were exonerated


i understand your point


however, they would have still spent a considerable time in prison, they would have seen their possessions either auctioned off or repossessed as they would have had no means of paying for them

they would have lost EVERYTHING, having spent so much time in prison

not to mention their basic freedoms


so either way, it would be a great shame

but if they had spent a good deal of time in prison, would you then be against life imprisonment?

and then once we abolish life imprisonment, then what? prison altogether?


the painful fact is that our justice system does from time to time convict innocent people

that DOES NOT mean we should do away with punishing CONVICTED criminals, or do away with certain elements of punishing them


but it most certainly does mean we should reform the justice system to eradicate wrongful judgements

Heh good try but no, by my reasoning the DP doesn't cost the taxpayer more or less.and where does the State get their money from?

Ahhh differant rules for them two!;) "it's ok as long as..." :p

Actually he would be in jail for the robberies he committed earlier in the day. which would be # months/years per count. no where near Life and not DP not even considered. A BEEG improvement over DP and Life Imprisionment.

i understand your point


however, they would have still spent a considerable time in prison, they would have seen their possessions either auctioned off or repossessed as they would have had no means of paying for them

they would have lost EVERYTHING, having spent so much time in prison

not to mention their basic freedoms


so either way, it would be a great shame

but if they had spent a good deal of time in prison, would you then be against life imprisonment?

and then once we abolish life imprisonment, then what? prison altogether?


the painful fact is that our justice system does from time to time convict innocent people

that DOES NOT mean we should do away with punishing CONVICTED criminals, or do away with certain elements of punishing them


but it most certainly does mean we should reform the justice system to eradicate wrongful judgements

I am all for getting rid of wrongful judgments

But in the end
Long imprisonment != Death

Yes they are both wrong and cost the person a lot sure but one is permanent and the other can be corrected at least in part

This is not a slippery slope the line is rather clear get rid of the permanent punishment and keep the ones that allow you to change things later on.

It is unreasonable to pull the states teeth to the point that they can not protect their citizens but we can mitigate the consequences

Still care for the death penalty?

It's not the death penalty itself that seems to be flawed about that system - it's the bill that allows third parties to be dragged in if they didn't commit murder.
That's where it gets excessive and uncalled for.
Capital punishment is the perfect example of lex talonis - you ended someone's life (lives?), therefore yours must also end.

As I said though, it's that controversial accomplice bill, which allows people not actually guilty of murder to be executed.

I am all for getting rid of wrongful judgments

But in the end
Long imprisonment != Death

Yes they are both wrong and cost the person a lot sure but one is permanent and the other can be corrected at least in part

This is not a slippery slope the line is rather clear get rid of the permanent punishment and keep the ones that allow you to change things later on.

It is unreasonable to pull the states teeth to the point that they can not protect their citizens but we can mitigate the consequences


hmmm, that does sound like something i might favor

It's not the death penalty itself that seems to be flawed about that system - it's the bill that allows third parties to be dragged in if they didn't commit murder.
That's where it gets excessive and uncalled for.
Capital punishment is the perfect example of lex talonis - you ended someone's life (lives?), therefore yours must also end.

As I said though, it's that controversial accomplice bill, which allows people not actually guilty of murder to be executed.

And yet without the DP this person this person would live and most of those others wrongly convicted and sentenced would still be alive...

The Innocence Project estimates 1 in 27 convicts put to death is innocent. This would tend to make mincemeat of Dubya's claim no innocent was ever put to death while he was governor of Texas, since 27 is well below the yearly average of executions in Texas.

Interesting tidbit. The states in the former Confederacy accounted for approximately 90 percent of the total executions in the first two decades following Furman [v. Georgia]. Guess it's not just a Texas thing, it's a Southern thing. Yay Dixie!:headbang:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/4221949

I don't know how we as a civilized nation can stand this, it is disgusting.

A man, innocent of murder (which is acknowledged by all including the state) is sentenced to death in Texas for a crime he did not commit.
How can the state let this happen?

The article said it in the first sentence. It's Texas. He's black. Lynching's not allowed anymore, so they need excuses.

Capital punishment was never about crime deterrence. It's about finding a way to allow everyday people to participate in murder without being held legally accountable.

Want to kill a guy, but don't want to go to jail? Commit vicarious murder by voting republican.

Side note: capital punishment works as crime deterrence if it is used consistently. Here capital punishment is a vindictive dog and pony show.

Thats really messed up. I mean mainly because he had no idea that the first guy was going to commit the murder.Maybe,big maybe if he knew it would be okay.Probably not.It would just be accesory to murder. It's just wrong because he assosiated with the guy just befire and just after the murder, both times having no idea a murder was commited. He never encouraged the murder, didn't know about it, did not assist, everyone regonizes this.It's not he went "Okay I'm gonna give you a gun and trive you to and back from killing a guy." The absolute worst part is that they were gonna let him go and the state of Texas appealed!WTF!!!:upyours: Texas! That's one horrible decision.

The absolute worst part is that they were gonna let him go and the state of Texas appealed!WTF!!!:upyours: Texas! That's one horrible decision.

No one gets out of jail in Texas. No one. Anyone about to get out of Texan jail gets moved to death row.

I sent an email last night through this website (http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/organizationsORG/tmn/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=12310&t=kenneth.dwt) to the members of the Texas legislature. I'm from Australia and blah blah America is losing its way blah blah injustice blah. This morning I got a lot of out of office automatic replies but I also got this reply from the office of Dan Flynn:

Thank you for your thoughts and concerns. Unfortunally your comments are lacking in true facts. If you have lost faith in the US you are in a great place to enjoy your life. Good luck and may God bless.

Just checked my facts and I was completely correct. The guy is going to be executed even though he didn't murder anyone. And lol that they didn't even spell unfortunately correctly. Also at them writing 'true fact'- what else would a fact be? Does this guy have his nine-year old grandson answering emails or something?

Just checked my facts and I was completely correct. The guy is going to be executed even though he didn't murder anyone. And lol that they didn't even spell unfortunately correctly. Also at them writing 'true fact'- what else would a fact be? Does this guy have his nine-year old grandson answering emails or something?
And they missed a comma or two.

The Innocence Project estimates 1 in 27 convicts put to death is innocent. This would tend to make mincemeat of Dubya's claim no innocent was ever put to death while he was governor of Texas, since 27 is well below the yearly average of executions in Texas.

Interesting tidbit. The states in the former Confederacy accounted for approximately 90 percent of the total executions in the first two decades following Furman [v. Georgia]. Guess it's not just a Texas thing, it's a Southern thing. Yay Dixie!:headbang:

Given the name of the "Innocence Project", I'd cast some doubt upon its objectivity.

But what would the cost associated with that increased quality in judicial procedure be. If we are looking at it from a pure economic standpoint Capital punishment in its current form is NOT more economically prudent and making a better judicial system (which I absolutely think is something to strive for) will not help with that cost if this is an economic decision

Immediate hanging subsequent to a guilty verdict doesn't strike me as incurring great cost.

Well I think that a case can be made for the death penalty for evil clowns, but for normal people, nope I can't buy into that.:eek:

:eek:

:(

:eek:

:(
no worries LG... you're not an Evil clown, you're an Ebil Clown. :p

I sent an email last night through this website (http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/organizationsORG/tmn/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=12310&t=kenneth.dwt) to the members of the Texas legislature. I'm from Australia and blah blah America is losing its way blah blah injustice blah. This morning I got a lot of out of office automatic replies but I also got this reply from the office of Dan Flynn:



Just checked my facts and I was completely correct. The guy is going to be executed even though he didn't murder anyone. And lol that they didn't even spell unfortunately correctly. Also at them writing 'true fact'- what else would a fact be? Does this guy have his nine-year old grandson answering emails or something?



That pretty much sums up the Republicans' foreign policy of "Fuck You"

No one innocent was put to death under Dubya'a governorship because no one is innocent in Texas. They are guilty of being arrested, which is possibly an executable offense.

no worries LG... you're not an Evil clown, you're an Ebil Clown. :p

Ah, it's okay. It's not like I'll get caught. ;)

Bush's Official Foreign Policy (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/RockItMan/president20george20w20bush20giving2.jpg)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/4221949

I don't know how we as a civilized nation can stand this, it is disgusting.

A man, innocent of murder (which is acknowledged by all including the state) is sentenced to death in Texas for a crime he did not commit.
How can the state let this happen?

Exactly ... a civilized nation would not.

I sent an email last night through this website (http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/organizationsORG/tmn/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=12310&t=kenneth.dwt) to the members of the Texas legislature. I'm from Australia and blah blah America is losing its way blah blah injustice blah. This morning I got a lot of out of office automatic replies but I also got this reply from the office of Dan Flynn:



Just checked my facts and I was completely correct. The guy is going to be executed even though he didn't murder anyone. And lol that they didn't even spell unfortunately correctly. Also at them writing 'true fact'- what else would a fact be? Does this guy have his nine-year old grandson answering emails or something?

sent an email via the same site, got alot of autoreplies but none similar to yours. who replied with that tone?

It's just such a bad law.

sent an email via the same site, got alot of autoreplies but none similar to yours. who replied with that tone?

Somebody working in the office of Dan Flynn. What did you write for yours? Mine was pretty long and personal, deliberately calling my home state (Queensland) similar to Texas and then talking about how Kenneth must feel to try and make it stand out a little.

Hypothetical Bet Time:

Would this man be on death row if he were rich and white? Taking all bets!

Hypothetical Bet Time:

Would this man be on death row if he were rich and white? Taking all bets!

I'd like to place a bet on "Yes." Here in Texas, we'll kill anyone who sits still long enough.

It is my understanding that if you are found guilty of a crime in Texas, certainly a death sentence, you have a very limited ( about 30 (?) days) to present facts to prove your innocence, if that time period is passed and you still could prove your innocence then you lose ! this was initiated to prevent lengthy appeal sessions. I guess they want rotation in their jail system, out with the old in with the new. The respect for life in the justice system is equally shared between China and Texas. Or maybe they want to get in the Guinness book of world records (Neh), they wouldn't let them in. Let me guess this man that will be executed is non-Caucasian ? :(:(

The Innocence Project estimates 1 in 27 convicts put to death is innocent. This would tend to make mincemeat of Dubya's claim no innocent was ever put to death while he was governor of Texas, since 27 is well below the yearly average of executions in Texas.


mr bush has no basis for saying whether or not any innocent person was executed while he was governor. he made his decision the day of the execution based on memos from his lawyer alberto gonzales whose memos were never complete and didnt contain any of the pertinent issues.

here is a link to an atlantic magazine article on the subject written when the author was scared blue that gonzales was going to be nominated for the supreme court.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200307/berlow

Somebody working in the office of Dan Flynn. What did you write for yours? Mine was pretty long and personal, deliberately calling my home state (Queensland) similar to Texas and then talking about how Kenneth must feel to try and make it stand out a little.
lots of auto replys. but instead of letting the site write my letter, I just asked for the court transcripts for a better 'understanding' of the case.

I'd like to place a bet on "Yes." Here in Texas, we'll kill anyone who sits still long enough.

Nice retort!

I'd like to place a bet on "Yes." Here in Texas, we'll kill anyone who sits still long enough.

... and you thought the traffic jams in your state were murder... :p

Hypothetical Bet Time:

Would this man be on death row if he were rich and white? Taking all bets!

Ah, well, playing devil's advocate here.... rich white men don't commit such hideous crimes to begin with, so no he wouldn't.

Ah, well, playing devil's advocate here.... rich white men don't commit such hideous crimes to begin with, so no he wouldn't.

You mean a hideous crime like "wrong-place-wrong-time"?

Ah, well, playing devil's advocate here.... rich white men don't commit such hideous crimes to begin with, so no he wouldn't.

Really? (http://www.chatrage.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/oj_simpson_narrowweb__300x4720.jpg)

:D

Next time I meet someone from Texas, I will beat him/her down. Just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Next time I meet someone from Texas, I will beat him/her down. Just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

That happened to me in Atlantic City when I was 10...

That happened to me in Atlantic City when I was 10...are you a Texan?

are you a Texan?

No, I'm from New Jersey. Some random drunk guy hit me because he bumped into me after being escorted out of Harrah's. Luckily the escorts were there to peel my parents off him.

No, I'm from New Jersey. Some random drunk guy hit me because he bumped into me after being escorted out of Harrah's. Luckily the escorts were there to peel my parents off him.Does NJ execute people as in the case at issue?

Does NJ execute people as in the case at issue?

No, we haven't executed someone in... I don't even remember.

You want to beat an innocent Texan because another Texan murdered an innocent man. Well now I can sleep easily tonight.

No, we haven't executed someone in... I don't even remember.

You want to beat an innocent Texan because another Texan murdered an innocent man. Well now I can sleep easily tonight.Hey, I'd only apply the Texan view of the world to a Texan. Isn't that fair treatment?

Hey, I'd only apply the Texan view of the world to a Texan. Isn't that fair treatment?

Amazing how geography can immediately place someone in life.

All Texans are fundy wackos
All fundy wackos should be beaten
-----

All Texans should be beaten.

Unfortunately the first premise is actually:

Some Texans are fundy wackos.

Amazing how geography can immediately place someone in life.

All Texans are fundy wackos
All fundy wackos should be beaten
-----

All Texans should be beaten.

Unfortunately the first premise is actually:

Some Texans are fundy wackos.Texans have voted for the legislators who made a law that states whoever is involved in a murder deserves death. So collective punishment is ok for Texans. And why exactly should I not do something to a Texan then that is ok for Texans?

Texans have voted for the legislators who made a law that states whoever is involved in a murder deserves death. So collective punishment is ok for Texans. And why exactly should I not do something to a Texan then that is ok for Texans?

Not all Texans deserve such punishment, as not all Texans are irrational psychos.

Not all Texans deserve such punishment, as not all Texans are irrational psychos.And? They are Texans. If Texas can execute someone who sat in the car while his colleague killed someone, then I can the hell do to a Texan whatever I want because Texans are killing that man in the car. It's justice Texan style, so don't complain.

yes he is innocent but Texas is stupid soo...

And? They are Texans. If Texas can execute someone who sat in the car while his colleague killed someone, then I can the hell do to a Texan whatever I want because Texans are killing that man in the car. It's justice Texan style, so don't complain.

You truly are a Texan.

You truly are a Texan.well, they say "treat others as you would like to be treated", but what about "treat others as they would like others to be treated" ?

well, they say "treat others as you would like to be treated", but what about "treat others as they would like others to be treated" ?

The most fundamental foundation of kindness is the ability to forgive another for their flaws.

The most fundamental foundation of kindness is the ability to forgive another for their flaws.Forgiving the Texans for being retards does not save this man.

btw I think yours was a weasel reply.

btw I think yours was a weasel reply.

I was trying to be nice, but fine.

You are no better, well worse than the people killing this man. Your vindication for harming Texans in general is so short sighted and barbaric it makes me want to just leave the thread altogether.

If basic psychology has shown anything. It is that violent retributions are utterly ineffective. I'm sure you know this, which is why you are far more repulsive than any fundy wacko. Ignoring the facts is completely different than being ignorant. One is capable of being enlightened, the other is not. You may not be killing this man, but your attitude is what starts such horrific blood feuds.

Not all Texans are retards, in time they will succumb to the modern process of law like everyone else. However, attacking them with the same behavior will only worsen things for everyone. You should know this.

I was trying to be nice, but fine.

You are no better, well worse than the people killing this man. Your vindication for harming Texans in general is so short sighted and barbaric it makes me want to just leave the thread altogether.

If basic psychology has shown anything. It is that violent retributions are utterly ineffective. I'm sure you know this, which is why you are far more repulsive than any fundy wacko. Ignoring the facts is completely different than being ignorant. One is capable of being enlightened, the other is not. You may not be killing this man, but your attitude is what starts such horrific blood feuds.

Not all Texans are retards, in time they will succumb to the modern process of law like everyone else. However, attacking them with the same behavior will only worsen things for everyone. You should know this.I could know, but why ought I? I have no interest in an evil society to persist.
Texans seem to understand only violence, so why not give them what they want and thus deserve? How would you deal with an evil society that allows for such laws? This man will die because Texans are retards, so why not attack them in a way as they attack this man?

You may not be killing this man, but your attitude is what starts such horrific blood feuds.What starts that feud is Texas killing that man. They are the society of evil. Or will you deny that Texas is known as a blood thirsty and barbaric state all over the world? Is such global judgement without cause?

The death penalty is a joke, and a bad one at that, what civilized society kills a person in the name of justice, its basically justification of they're crime. If you support the death penalty, you support murder.

I could know, but why ought I? I have no interest in an evil society to persist.
Texans seem to understand only violence, so why not give them what they want and thus deserve? How would you deal with an evil society that allows for such laws? This man will die because Texans are retards, so why not attack them in a way as they attack this man?

Because that is what we have always done, and evil still persists in abundance.

"Upon ruling out all the logical possibilities, the illogical becomes logical."

Because that is what we have always done, and evil still persists in abundance.Because some folks are unable to widen their horizons. This man cannot wait until Texans catch up with other parts of the planet (namely outside the US).

"Upon ruling out all the logical possibilities, the illogical becomes logical."No, it does not. But it becomes acceptable.

Because some folks are unable to widen their horizons. This man cannot wait until Texans catch up with other parts of the planet (namely outside the US).

So you propose playing their game. In which more innocent people will die. We can only hope that the federal government intervenes somehow.

So you propose playing their game. In which more innocent people will die. We can only hope that the federal government intervenes somehow.You have that hope? The US is a rabid nation.

You have that hope? The US is a rabid nation.

The U.S. is too large a nation to define with a single word. 50% of us are Texan, 50% of us are like me. Slowly everyone is trying to be more like me. ;)

The U.S. is too large a nation to define with a single word. 50% of us are Texan, 50% of us are like me. Slowly everyone is trying to be more like me. ;)That's not fast enough. This man dies on the 30th.

That's not fast enough. This man dies on the 30th.

Not a good man has died without good cause. Maybe this case will bring about change in Texas. Maybe it won't. But violence, against a population who partially agrees with you, won't help any.

Life is one big tragedy after another, but we persevere waiting for that happy conclusion that justifies all the suffering throughout.

Not a good man has died without good cause. Maybe this case will bring about change in Texas. Maybe it won't. But violence, against a population who partially agrees with you, won't help any.

Life is one big tragedy after another, but we persevere waiting for that happy conclusion that justifies all the suffering throughout.This man dies on the 30th. And since it is not your suffering we are talking about your reference to future changes is somewhat outrageous. Would you die in this man's stead for such changes?

Would you die in this man's stead for such charges?

As a severe clinical depressive, I hide it good don't I ;), yes.

But, does it really make a difference what person lives or dies. Can we put value on anyone's life? As much as we differentiate ourselves from one another, we are all worth the same.

This man dies on the 30th. And since it is not your suffering we are talking about your reference to future changes is somewhat outrageous. Would you die in this man's stead for such changes?

Do you have an alternate proposal?

Do you have an alternate proposal?Commute his death sentence. But that's unfortunately beyond my influence. Injustice like this makes me furious and angry, and it makes me doubt the character of every Texan and even US citizen. The first questions in my mind when I newly meet a US American are no longer "does s/he like basketball" but "who did s/he vote for" and "is s/he for the Iraq war, death penalty, etc".

Commute his death sentence. But that's unfortunately beyond my influence. Injustice like this makes me furious and angry, and it makes me doubt the character of every Texan and even US citizen. The first questions in my mind when I newly meet a US American are no longer "does s/he like basketball" but "who did s/he vote for" and "is s/he for the Iraq war, death penalty, etc".

That seems incredibly unfair towards most decent Americans.

That seems incredibly unfair towards most decent Americans.If Americans were decent, the US would not have the death penalty anymore. Apparently US Americans like to vote for those lawmakers who make that kind of laws.
And what about America's fairness towards the man at issue here?

If Americans were decent, the US would not have the death penalty anymore. Apparently US Americans like to vote for those lawmakers who make that kind of laws.

Only Florida and Texas use the death penalty in excess anymore. My state, New Jersey, hasn't executed anyone in... I'm a criminal justice major and I don't remember.

Two states do not equal fifty.

We are more culturally diverse than Europe, and yet expected to conform under one identity. I'd like to see the EU try to pull that off.

Only Florida and Texas use the death penalty in excess anymore. My state, New Jersey, hasn't executed anyone in... I'm a criminal justice major and I don't remember.

Two states do not equal fifty.They do if there is no federal law or SC ruling banning the death penalty.

They do if there is no federal law or SC ruling banning the death penalty.

Your ability to judge 280 million people based on the actions of a mere fraction of that is borderline bigotry.

Your ability to judge 280 million people based on the actions of a mere fraction of that is borderline bigotry.what mere fraction? don't all of you have the right to vote? you know, European countries have abolished the death penalty decades ago, so why not the US?

what mere fraction? don't all of you have the right to vote?

It's much much more complicated than that. My state reflects my views fairly well. Hell our last governor was a closet homosexual. :p

I am not saying I am gay, just indicating my stance on homosexuality. It's awwwright. I'm just sad McGreavy resigned because of it.

Like I said, Imagine joinging the EU with the Middle East. Yeah I'd bitch at France to stop Saudi Arabia from ripping clitoris off, but in reality, there's nothing they could do. :(

what mere fraction? don't all of you have the right to vote?

Yes and no.

Do we "vote" for our politicians? Yes.

Does our "vote" matter? No. Getting elected doesn't mean you have to actually *do* what you said you were going to do. That would piss to many potential voters off.

As well, the SC is not elected, but appointed, for life no less.

So... yeah.

Yes and no.

Do we "vote" for our politicians? Yes.

Does our "vote" matter? No. Getting elected doesn't mean you have to actually *do* what you said you were going to do. That would piss to many potential voters off.

As well, the SC is not elected, but appointed, for life no less.

So... yeah.Then why does Europe have no death penalty?

Then why does Europe have no death penalty?

...Russia.

...Russia....EU

Like I said, Imagine joinging the EU with the Middle East. Yeah I'd bitch at France to stop Saudi Arabia from ripping clitoris off, but in reality, there's nothing they could do. :(

Actually, they would never be able to join the EU in the first place if they allowed such barbarism as genital mutilation or the death penalty. In fact, one of the admission criteria to the EU is the abolishment of the death penalty and harmonisation of laws to meet the standards of The Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms, meaning that they submit themselves to the authority of the compulsory and binding jurisdiction of the European Court of Human Rights. The Nice Treaty gives the EU the power to sanction any member state that fails to meet that standard. So, there is a lot that could be done if an EU member state were to try to execute someone or allow genital mutilation - in fact, the only thing that need be done: they could be stopped. And they would be.

...EU

Sorry, thought Russia was a part of the EU.

It must be easy to act all high and mighty when travesties are happening on your doorstep rather than inside your house.

...Russia.

Russia has a moratorium on it, and as a member of the Council of Europe and subject to the jurisdiction of the ECtHR the moratorium is a de facto ban.

Sorry, thought Russia was a part of the EU.:rolleyes:

It must be easy to act all high and mighty when travesties are happening on your doorstep rather than inside your house.death penalty is not a travesty, it's barbarism, and it's happening in the US that always claim to be on the forefront of the fight for human rights while their record tells the world otherwise. why could you not get rid of the death penalty as the europeans did? because there are not enough people to support a ban and who subsequently vote those into office who could achieve that ban.

Russia has a moratorium on it, and as a member of the Council of Europe and subject to the jurisdiction of the ECtHR the moratorium is a de facto ban.

Well it's about time they stopped assassinating people!

Like I said, Texas will eventually succumb, but in that time they will kill people. Some completely innocent. I'm not sure why you people hate me for what they're doing. Other than going to Texas, breaking the guy out, and getting killed in a stand off with the Texas Rangers, it's out of my hands.

Also there are decent Texans, my grandfather for example.

:rolleyes:

death penalty is not a travesty, it's barbarism, and it's happening in the US that always claim to be on the forefront of the fight for human rights while their record tells the world otherwise. why could you not get rid of the death penalty as the europeans did? because there are not enough people to support a ban and who subsequently vote those into office who could achieve that ban.

Apparently you're unable to grasp the concept on what a large cultural split the U.S. is. I'm sure in your eyes Chinese and Australians are one and the same.

Well it's about time they stopped assassinating people!

Like I said, Texas will eventually succumb, but in that time they will kill people. Some completely innocent. I'm not sure why you people hate me for what they're doing. Other than going to Texas, breaking the guy out, and getting killed in a stand off with the Texas Rangers, it's out of my hands.

Also there are decent Texans, my grandfather for example.Who will you vote for in the next elections?

Well it's about time they stopped assassinating people!

Those are extra-judicial, and mind you not proven. If you have evidence to corroborate such claims, contact the Council.

Apparently you're unable to grasp the concept on what a large cultural split the U.S. is. I'm sure in your eyes Chinese and Australians are one and the same.What cultural split? That between democrats and republicans? Or that between the handful educated folks and the broad mass?

What cultural split? That between democrats and republicans?

You make me want to bash my head into the monitor.

Those are extra-judicial, and mind you not proven. If you have evidence to corroborate such claims, contact the Council.

Damn you and your judicial process. We Amerikans are uncapable of such things bekause Txas and Flrida are run by primordial demons. U r betr than me.

Damn you and your judicial process. We Amerikans are uncapable of such things bekause Txas and Flrida are run by primordial demons.who were all voted into office by someone. the people get what they wish and vote for.

Damn you and your judicial process. We Amerikans are uncapable of such things bekause Txas and Flrida are run by primordial demons. U r betr than me.

Guantanamo Bay. Yes, the USA has proven itself to have abandoned due process and human rights.

You make me want to bash my head into the monitor.that's the only cultural divide i can see in the US, that between those who vote democrats and those who vote for republicans.

Then why does Europe have no death penalty?

The US is usually behind the times.

Slavery, getting involved in "just" wars(WWII especially), human rights, civil liberties, you name it, we're way behind.

I could go into a rant about how it's the two party system we have(You get to vote for one of two parties, and they are almost the exact same damn thing! Yay!), how the way demographics work out in such a system(You're democrat in Texas? Your vote don't matter beotch!), and many other reasons why politicians don't do what they should do. But alas, it all comes down to so many Americans not wanting to hear about the "bad things" going on in the world, and knowing who is this year's American Idol winner over who exactly Saddam Hussein is(I have met people who had no clue who he was), really. Basically, a caring for the asinine, while not giving a shit about anything that matters.

Or to some it up even more:

It's to difficult to give a damn.

The US is usually behind the times.

Slavery, getting involved in "just" wars(WWII especially), human rights, civil liberties, you name it, we're way behind.

I could go into a rant about how it's the two party system we have(You get to vote for one of two parties, and they are almost the exact same damn thing! Yay!), how the way demographics work out in such a system(You're democrat in Texas? Your vote don't matter beotch!), and many other reasons why politicians don't do what they should do. But alas, it all comes down to so many Americans not wanting to hear about the "bad things" going on in the world, and knowing who is this year's American Idol winner over who exactly Saddam Hussein is(I have met people who had no clue who he was), really. Basically, a caring for the asinine, while not giving a shit about anything that matters.

Or to some it up even more:

It's to difficult to give a damn.

sounds like tv nation to me.

What cultural split? That between democrats and republicans? Or that between the handful educated folks and the broad mass?

Eh... there is a *Huge* split between the cultures of the South and New England, and the Midwest, and the Western Seacoast, and other areas, buddy. New England is more "liberal", the South tends towards conservative, the Midwest is a mix, the Western Seacoast liberal again, and so forth and so on. We aren't some homogenous country with only two types of people, but a mish-mash of idiots across America. But that's only political leanings. There are other massive cultural differences between the areas.

Guantanamo Bay. Yes, the USA has proven itself to have abandoned due process and human rights.

The current administration has made me utterly embarrassed to be an American, but if it's any consolation I've dedicated my studies to becoming a police officer. It's the only way I can bear this kind of guilt.

I ask you, what are you doing to prevent injustice aside from being born into a country that is currently more aware of human rights?

Eh... there is a *Huge* split between the cultures of the South and New England, and the Midwest, and the Western Seacoast, and other areas, buddy. New England is more "liberal", the South tends towards conservative, the Midwest is a mix, the Western Seacoast liberal again, and so forth and so on. We aren't some homogenous country with only two types of people, but a mish-mash of idiots across America. But that's only political leanings. There are other massive cultural differences between the areas.so the divide is party affinity.

Er... care to elaborate?superficiality.

sounds like tv nation to me.

Er... care to elaborate?

so the divide is party affinity.

If parties were divided among regions, there'd be roughly six solid contenders every election. Unfortunately, in common interest, they formed two solid parties. Neither of which fulfill any specific region's interest, but say the right shit to get their attention.

The current administration has made me utterly embarrassed to be an American, but if it's any consolation I've dedicated my studies to becoming a police officer. It's the only way I can bear this kind of guilt.

I ask you, what are you doing to prevent injustice aside from being born into a country that is currently more aware of human rights?

Indeed. The only people who actually *support* such things are those who are hard liners. Most people either:

A)Don't give a shit

Or for the more reasonable:

B)Are fully against it

It's not everyone in America's fault that our current administration is shit, just 51%.

And hell, I doubt Kerry would have been much better(Perhaps slightly, but it would take only a trained monkey to do better than the current el Presidente). So really, as South Park put it, we had a choice between a Giant Douche and a Shit Sandwich. Some choice, huh?

I ask you, what are you doing to prevent injustice aside from being born into a country that is currently more aware of human rights?

I am a member of Amnesty International, SFSF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Peace_and_Arbitration_Society), ILGA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ILGA) and Médicins Sans Frontières, which I am planning to do a years work for after I have finished my training. I have participated in many, many protests and actions in the auspices of those organisations, and have personally done lobby work on numerous politicians from several countries. So? You think that because we are better than you, that we don't strive for even better?

so the divide is party affinity.

It's one aspect, but not the sole aspect, or even the larger aspect.

However, when talking politics, that would be a divide.

However, that doesn't mean that a Democrat from the Midwest would like a Democrat from New England, as really the party is quite different in the two regions. However, due to the way our system is set up, the party is really forced to remain as a single entity, even though there is a clear difference in what people want from the party in each given region.

Tis an unfortunate outcome of our system.

I am a member of Amnesty International, SFSF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Peace_and_Arbitration_Society), ILGA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ILGA) and Médicins Sans Frontières, which I am planning to do a years work for after I have finished my training. I have participated in many, many protests and actions in the auspices of those organisations, and have personally done lobby work on numerous politicians from several countries. So? You think that because we are better than you, that we don't strive for even better?

I meant the other guy Fass. :p

Well, my first thought was because he was black, and this is taking place in Texas.

Sure enough, I was right.

All it is is old fashioned Southern racism.

Pretty disgusting stuff.

You obviously didn't read the article. The real killer was black also.

Please explain how this is 'racism'? I think it is just a poor policy that should be abolished. See nothing of racism here...

Did you expect anything else from Texas?

more executions per capita than red china. :headbang:

You obviously didn't read the article. The real killer was black also.

Please explain how this is 'racism'? I think it is just a poor policy that should be abolished. See nothing of racism here...

Race always has something to do with it anywhere. From Norway to South Africa.

I meant the other guy Fass. :p

You were replying to my post.

So? You think that because we are better than you, that we don't strive for even better?

Nice. True class.

As well, the US as a whole isn't bad at all.

In Minnesota(My home state, basically a Liberal Island in a Sea of Conservatism), the Death Penalty has been abolished for quite some time. In fact, in the State's entire history, only 66 people have been put to death. That's not much, considering the size and population of Minnesota.

We just have a few more pesky nicks and nacks to iron out(We have a very conservative older population), but we are definitely doing well.

Compare it to some other bastard states(For the record, California as of 2004 had almost twice as many deathrow inmates as Texas), and we really are quite good.

Really, it is impossible to get anything worth anything done on a national level. States love to claim Sovereignty issues all the time, even to this day.

so the divide is party affinity.

no it's not.

You obviously didn't read the article. The real killer was black also.

Please explain how this is 'racism'? I think it is just a poor policy that should be abolished. See nothing of racism here...

A jury would have had to convict him, and a white guy may quite possibly have gotten off more easily than a black guy.

Really, it happens.

A jury would have had to convict him, and a white guy may quite possibly have gotten off more easily than a black guy.

Really, it happens.

Well, he was going to be convicted as an accessory to murder anyway. It's just the policy. Sorry, say what you want, there is no racism involved her.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/4221949

I don't know how we as a civilized nation can stand this, it is disgusting.

A man, innocent of murder (which is acknowledged by all including the state) is sentenced to death in Texas for a crime he did not commit.
How can the state let this happen?


It actually appears fairly common in many jurisdictions including Canada to make a party to an offence (as per aiding and abetting or counseling etc..) to be able to be found guilty of the same act that they were party to.

The difference between Canada and texas of course is that Texas has the death penalty.

I don't see anything exceptional about this - except the fact that the contravesial "no knowledge of the crime was going to occur" part of it. But the guy seemed to be convicted. There is always an appeal, but in General it seems likely that the guy knew his friend had a gun.... and that they were in general likely to be divergent in regard to legality in general - BUT I could be totally off on that.

I think the death penalty is pretty extreme, IMO I think individuals who do not pose of risk of a future breach should be allowed probation (of some sort) .. or relocation if the issue is enviornmental. I think death should only be done when there isn't somewhere willing to take the person and a lasting disruption and danger exists to society.. but that is perhaps part of the prison thing but I am more of a ghulag area person.. for instance have territories -islands, frontiers etc.. that can be a large exile area if no civil jurisdictions are willing to accept a relocated person. Who would have restrictions on specific areas they are allowed etc..

anyway... to the state he ain't innocent.

Quote: The US is usually behind the times.

it's unfortunate that they consider themselves ahead of times and try to impose their just democratic system by cramming it down the throat of the people of foreign nations.
While I lived in Canada for a time, I came ,in the function of my work, upon a situation that sort of demonstrate this mentality. An American businessman who wanted to enter Canada via the Blaine (Washington State) crossing, was requested to give up his weapon(s) before entering Canada. To which he angrily reacted with this remark " How am I going to defend myself against the criminals ? to which came the reply : "Sir, nobody carries a gun in Canada"
To which the American replied: "that's ludicrous, you guys are nuts, it's your given right to carry a gun !". Needless to say that the well informed American had to give up his guns or choose to go back. :headbang:

snip

anyway... to the state he ain't innocent.

Well duh but they have fairly well shown they are incompetent idiots and their view on the matter is apparently horribly flawed

Even if there wasn't an Appeal Limit, it's the Taxpayers who pay for the board to review each appeal, that means a flood of appeals, legit or not, costs the taxpayers of that state each and every time.

Which is a good reason to get rid of the Death Penalty altogether. It would save taxpayers money (costs more to execute than it does to have a prisoner spend life in prison http://www.deathpenalty.org/index.php?pid=cost) and innocent people wouldn't be murdered by the state.

We should all threaten a mass suicide if he is not commuted at least.

We should all threaten a mass suicide if he is not commuted at least.

I wonder what they would do?Let even more people die.Dismiss it as 'Meh,just more criminals and nut jobs gettin' killed off. Saves us money."

I know your not serious but still.

It's disgusting how people try to turn this into a political issue because it's simply not. It's not a question of right-wing vs. left-wing. It's a question of right vs. wrong. Right and left-wingers alike have no reason to support the execution of Kenneth Foster.

Which is a good reason to get rid of the Death Penalty altogether. It would save taxpayers money (costs more to execute than it does to have a prisoner spend life in prison http://www.deathpenalty.org/index.php?pid=cost) and innocent people wouldn't be murdered by the state.

might as well get rid of Life and Life w/o parole since they too have alot of appeals submitted. actually, so does any jailtime.

and while you can try to argue that the DP should be removed, this case is not the DP's 'fault' but the stupid "law of parties" that allowed him to be served the DP.

even the websites fighting for his life are focusing on the Law of Parties as what is wrong with the system.

It's disgusting how people try to turn this into a political issue because it's simply not. It's not a question of right-wing vs. left-wing. It's a question of right vs. wrong. Right and left-wingers alike have no reason to support the execution of Kenneth Foster.
I agree. Even supporters of the death penalty see it as a necessary evil, and if the man is innocent, it is an unnecessary evil.

We should all threaten a mass suicide if he is not commuted at least.

Then you would be doing Texas' job for them.

This is why I've recently changed my opinion to be against Capital Punishment. A Government as incompetent as that of the average American State should NOT hold the power to take a person't life.

Hey this guy was probably some kind of ghetto gangster. Good riddance.

Hey this guy was probably some kind of ghetto gangster. Good riddance.

Your epitaph:

"Hey, this guy was probably some sort of KKK fundie. Good riddance."

Hey this guy was probably some kind of ghetto gangster. Good riddance.will you care for his kid?

will you care for his kid?... do you like the idea of him shaping and molding a young mind to his ideals?

... do you like the idea of him shaping and molding a young mind to his ideals?

Can you show us what his ideals are?

Can you show us what his ideals are?

.. True, however raising a kid while thinking that his father is...
Hey this guy was probably some kind of ghetto gangster. Good Riddance.can't be good for the kid's Psyche.

will you care for his kid?

Why should I. Everyone should care for their own kids and we all should care for the kids of our fallen soldiers, airmen, and sailors.

Maybe this guy should have spent more time with his family and less time rolling with his black homeboy possie, yo.

Fry his ass!

Why should I. Everyone should care for their own kids and we all should care for the kids of our fallen soldiers, airmen, and sailors.

Maybe this guy should have spent more time with his family and less time rolling with his black homeboy possie, yo.

Fry his ass!
I hope you get fried as well one day for something that you did not do.

I hope you get fried as well one day for something that you did not do.

Hey, the guy had a trial and was convicted by a jury. Just because a suspect claims that he did not know he would be involved in a murder does not mean that he is telling the truth. If a guy helps commit a murder he should die. All that law of parties stuff is a bunch of garbage. Felony murderers should get the same punishment as the triggerman.

Why should I. Everyone should care for their own kids and we all should care for the kids of our fallen soldiers, airmen, and sailors.

Maybe this guy should have spent more time with his family and less time rolling with his black homeboy possie, yo.

Fry his ass!

This is exactly why the idiots government run by the populace who is more swayed by emotion then making things better should not be allowed the option of the death penalty

Maybe this guy should have spent more time with his family and less time rolling with his black homeboy possie, yo.

Fry his ass!

I know you feel the need to be a racist troll, but there's really nothing to be gained by that kind of talk.

Hey, the guy had a trial and was convicted by a jury.since when does that mean anything? especially in a state like texas?

If you guys all give me five dollars I'll go bike downtown and yell at Governor Perry for you.

Snip.

Look at yourself, a sad case with an internet connection either trying to get people riled up while claiming to believe absurdities or, worse, believing them and being unable to back any of them up with arguments.

Don't you, regardless of believing the absurdities you spout, feel the least bit ashamed of making a fool of yourself by playing a shoddy role in a forum? Don't you feel this is merely an escape for the fact that your life seems to have no other sense than posting hateful, absurd things you try to convince us you believe?

I pity you, I really do.

8 days to go.

how does one prepare to die?