NationStates Jolt Archive


What makes a man, a 'MAN'?

Zilam
16-08-2007, 09:05
Never mind. I'm an idiot. :)
Intangelon
16-08-2007, 09:09
Blog much?

The X & Y chromosomes and the psychological underpinning to take the male role makes you a man. Anything else is cultural/societal and has nothing to do with "making" anything but the majority feel comfortable.

Be who you are.
Cabra West
16-08-2007, 09:09
I think mostly being a man is defined by what gender's hardwired in your brain.
Dunno what those silly stereotypes you listed got to do with anything, though....
Multiland
16-08-2007, 09:10
I think a man is a male human being who:

> protects and defends others, especially his partner
> is kind and caring and compassionate
and
> is not afraid to show his emotions, admit when another guy is sexy, or do anything that people consider "womanly" or "girly"
The Alma Mater
16-08-2007, 09:10
The beard *nod*.

(Yes, women can be men as well ;))
Cabra West
16-08-2007, 09:11
Wait, are you all trying to claim that it's BEHAVIOUR that defines maleness??? :eek:
Zilam
16-08-2007, 09:11
By the way, if you get some sociology or gender studies students (or similar) reading this thread, you're going to have a LONG debate

Good, I like it when my threads go more than a page :D
Multiland
16-08-2007, 09:11
By the way, if you get some sociology or gender studies students (or similar) reading this thread, you're going to have a LONG debate
IL Ruffino
16-08-2007, 09:11
Oh my god, last time we had one of these threads.. I.. can't..

*runs away*
Kinda Sensible people
16-08-2007, 09:12
Having X & Y chromosomes and being over the age of sufferage in their country? Really, it's a silly question, and one you shouldn't spend time on.
Barringtonia
16-08-2007, 09:13
Oh my god, last time we had one of these threads.. I.. can't..

*runs away*

I can't wait :)

EDIT: I just want to know what happened last time
Wilgrove
16-08-2007, 09:20
The hot dog and two meatballs are what make a man a man! *nods*
Intangelon
16-08-2007, 09:26
I think a man is a male human being who:

> protects and defends others, especially his partner
> is kind and caring and compassionate
and
> is not afraid to show his emotions, admit when another guy is sexy, or do anything that people consider "womanly" or "girly"

Any of that can be, and is, done by women -- so, your pronouns aside, what's your point?

Good, I like it when my threads go more than a page :D

It happens so infrequently, it's not a surprise that it pleases you.

(sorry, too easy to pass up)
IL Ruffino
16-08-2007, 09:34
I can't wait :)

EDIT: I just want to know what happened last time

It was so stereotypical and bullshit. I was annoyed. *nod*
Barringtonia
16-08-2007, 09:58
It was so stereotypical and bullshit. I was annoyed. *nod*

oh...:(
Intangelon
16-08-2007, 10:00
The hot dog and two meatballs are what make a man a man! *nods*

You can't make a man out of ground animal parts, bug excrement, rat feces and colon casings!









Can you?
Peepelonia
16-08-2007, 10:13
You can't make a man out of ground animal parts, bug excrement, rat feces and colon casings!









Can you?

Sure you can, thats why we smell!
Rambhutan
16-08-2007, 10:52
The use of capital letters and single quote marks.
Sessboodeedwilla
16-08-2007, 11:00
I think what makes a man is:

1.the ability to pee on something hung on a wall. ;)

2.the ability to not be enraged over the "c" word. :p

3.the disadvantage of not being able to win an argument with a woman because of a need to make sense. :)

4.men understand and find the three stooges hilarious.:cool:

5.mens idea of a romantic movie consists of a sex scene, and a gun: mp5:

6.and men don't gain anything from being married. :gundge:
Peepelonia
16-08-2007, 11:02
I think what makes a man is:

1.the ability to pee on something hung on a wall. ;)

2.the ability to not be enraged over the "c" word. :p

3.the disadvantage of not being able to win an argument with a woman because of a need to make sense. :)

4.men understand and find the three stooges hilarious.:cool:

5.mens idea of a romantic movie consists of a sex scene, and a gun: mp5:

6.and men don't gain anything from being married. :gundge:

I liked all of that, but I would dispute number 6.

we get our dinneron the table when we get home from work, we get the kids well looked after, we pay less tax, and recive reagular sex!:D
Sessboodeedwilla
16-08-2007, 11:07
I liked all of that, but I would dispute number 6.

we get our dinneron the table when we get home from work, we get the kids well looked after, we pay less tax, and recive reagular sex!:D

you're a newlywed huh? :fluffle:
Peepelonia
16-08-2007, 11:08
you're a newlywed huh? :fluffle:

hehe naaaa I ain't my good wife and myself celebrated our 17th year or marriage just last month!
Sessboodeedwilla
16-08-2007, 11:13
hehe naaaa I ain't my good wife and myself celebrated our 17th year or marriage just last month!

ooh I got it...prenup?:D
Peepelonia
16-08-2007, 11:15
ooh I got it...prenup?:D

Hahahh good guess, but naaa, I was too young to even know what one of them was when I got married, shit and my wife is three years younger than me.

Naaa I put it down to each of us find the right person. Sounds soppy(or romantic if you are a woman) but there ya go!
Occeandrive3
16-08-2007, 11:24
I think what makes a man is:

1.the ability to pee on something hung on a wall. ;)

2.the ability to not be enraged over the "c" word. :p

3.the disadvantage of not being able to win an argument with a woman because of a need to make sense. :)

4.men understand and find the three stooges hilarious.:cool:

5.mens idea of a romantic movie consists of a sex scene, and a gun: mp5:

6.and men don't gain anything from being married. :gundge:I am not sure about #6.. some men "need" to be married.
Occeandrive3
16-08-2007, 11:27
... and recive reagular sex!:Dyou're a newlywed huh? :fluffle:he must be.. :D
Flatus Minor
16-08-2007, 11:35
You can't make a man out of ground animal parts, bug excrement, rat feces and colon casings!

Can you?

Well who knows. Folk wisdom had it we were made from snips, snails and puppy dog tails for some centuries(?)... or maybe that's only boys. I still don't know what snips are though.
Sessboodeedwilla
16-08-2007, 11:37
I am not sure about #6.. some men "need" to be married.

Yeah I guess I could go for that, hell I did it too. 11 years. :fluffle:
Sessboodeedwilla
16-08-2007, 11:40
You can't make a man out of ground animal parts, bug excrement, rat feces and colon casings!









Can you?

I think I saw someone do that on you tube:p
Sessboodeedwilla
16-08-2007, 11:44
Hahahh good guess, but naaa, I was too young to even know what one of them was when I got married, shit and my wife is three years younger than me.

Naaa I put it down to each of us find the right person. Sounds soppy(or romantic if you are a woman) but there ya go!

It could be like that that episode of csi miami, where the guy had a wife who was always happy too, and when she wasn't she would get one of her quintuplet sisters to pinch hit. ( hint: look for identifying marks) :eek:
Sessboodeedwilla
16-08-2007, 11:46
Good, I like it when my threads go more than a page :D

I'm trying, but I'm at work, and I'm a lousy typist.:rolleyes:
United Beleriand
16-08-2007, 11:56
What makes a man, a 'MAN'?Freedom. Especially freedom of mind.
Testcase1
16-08-2007, 11:57
Blog much?

The X & Y chromosomes and the psychological underpinning to take the male role makes you a man. Anything else is cultural/societal and has nothing to do with "making" anything but the majority feel comfortable.

Be who you are.

No. X&Y chromosomes are what make you a male.

Man is a cultural/societal role, and to define what it is that makes you that you have to ask what is it in contrast to.

What makes you a man rather than a boy is independence, leadership, experience, and responsibility.

What makes you a man rather than a woman (not "rather than a female") is honor, reason, courage, and respect for authority, order, and people's rights. Not that women can't have these traits, or shouldn't. Just that lacking them won't make her less of a woman, the same way that being a belligerent asshole won't make a man less of a man, just less of a person.

And I suppose that what makes you a man instead of a male would be the traits that make a woman a woman instead of a female: Compassion, abstract/intuitive thinking, and respect for social roles and relationships,
Testcase1
16-08-2007, 12:02
I think what makes a man is:

1.the ability to pee on something hung on a wall. ;)

2.the ability to not be enraged over the "c" word. :p

3.the disadvantage of not being able to win an argument with a woman because of a need to make sense. :)

4.men understand and find the three stooges hilarious.:cool:

5.mens idea of a romantic movie consists of a sex scene, and a gun: mp5:

6.and men don't gain anything from being married. :gundge:

Actually, married men live longer than single men. And married women live shorter.
Testcase1
16-08-2007, 12:07
you're a newlywed huh? :fluffle:

No. By regular sex he means just plain ole' regular sex. If you think it's embarrassing trying to jump off your wife when you're both lying down under the covers you should try to nonchalantly remove the gag, untie the shackles, and unzip the mask.
Dorstfeld
16-08-2007, 12:37
This:

http://www.transaktuell.de/.swimage/ta_extra0606jpg~/642/281/61/0/39/1/
H N Fiddlebottoms VIII
16-08-2007, 12:59
What makes a man, a 'MAN'?
I dunno . . . Caps lock?
Cabra West
16-08-2007, 13:00
No. X&Y chromosomes are what make you a male.

Man is a cultural/societal role, and to define what it is that makes you that you have to ask what is it in contrast to.

What makes you a man rather than a boy is independence, leadership, experience, and responsibility.

What makes you a man rather than a woman (not "rather than a female") is honor, reason, courage, and respect for authority, order, and people's rights. Not that women can't have these traits, or shouldn't. Just that lacking them won't make her less of a woman, the same way that being a belligerent asshole won't make a man less of a man, just less of a person.

And I suppose that what makes you a man instead of a male would be the traits that make a woman a woman instead of a female: Compassion, abstract/intuitive thinking, and respect for social roles and relationships,

What utter nonsense.
Why would outdated social concepts need to be refered to to decide who is a man and who isn't?
And male is not necessarily determined by genetics. An majority of males have XY chromosomes, but not all of them.
IL Ruffino
16-08-2007, 13:03
I dunno . . . Caps lock?

Compensation make not a man..
H N Fiddlebottoms VIII
16-08-2007, 13:06
Compensation make not a man..
*ahem*
. . . man . . . 'MAN'?

Are you following me yet?
IL Ruffino
16-08-2007, 13:43
*ahem*
. . . man . . . 'MAN'?

Are you following me yet?

CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW? :cool:
Joudeni
16-08-2007, 13:44
Depends on how we define this.... if it's "What makes a male human a man?" or is it "What makes someone a male human?"

First is behaviour, second is physiology... I think at least....

And yes, in the original way it was said, caps lock does make a 'man' a 'MAN'
Pezalia
16-08-2007, 14:02
Being a man is:

Not being afraid to get your hands dirty.
Not being fussy about your looks (this doesn't mean not caring, it just means not being vain).
Being pragmatic and thinking clearly.
Not being one of the sheep, cutting your own path through life.

Some may argue that women can also do all of the above... and that's completly true. But that's for another thread altogether. This is a post about what it takes for a man to be a MAN.

:cool:
Peepelonia
16-08-2007, 14:07
Being a man is:

Not being afraid to get your hands dirty.
Not being fussy about your looks (this doesn't mean not caring, it just means not being vain).
Being pragmatic and thinking clearly.
Not being one of the sheep, cutting your own path through life.

Some may argue that women can also do all of the above... and that's completly true. But that's for another thread altogether. This is a post about what it takes for a man to be a MAN.

:cool:

Heh subjectivity in action huh!


Some would say that being a man means to keep your head, down, work hard, and provide for the family. If that means being a sheep then so be it.

What would you say to that huh huh?
Smunkeeville
16-08-2007, 14:11
Men usually have penises, but sometimes a woman might have a penis by accident and need it removed. Also, sometimes a man doesn't have a penis because he was born with a vulva and needs that mistake repaired also.

That is all.

(oh, and don't listen to the "real man" B.S. people make that crap up because they are insecure. if there isn't a such thing as a "real woman" there cannot be a such thing as a "real man" it's gender stereotype B.S.)
Happylands
16-08-2007, 14:49
Rites of passage?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/2067235.stm
The_pantless_hero
16-08-2007, 14:51
Becoming a pirate.
Neo Bretonnia
16-08-2007, 14:57
Q:How many real men does it take to change a lightbulb?
A:None. Real men aren't afraid of the dark.

Q:How many real Women does it take to change a lightbulb?
A:None. A real woman can make a man do it for her.

Kidding aside:

As someone pointed out, anatomy makes a person male or female. How they carry themselves makes them a man (or woman) or not.

And yeah, it's cultural. People say it like it's a bad thing. It isn't.

Biologically and psychologically men are designed for roles that serve to protect and support their families. That part isn't cultural, it's how we're made naturally. Males are larger, stronger and more aggressive (on average). Making good and honorable use of those traits is what makes a male a man.

A male who beats his wife is no man. A male who beats his children is no man. A male who conducts himself dishonorably is a pretender at best.

On the other hand, a male who use his strength to protect and defend his family is a man (or is, at least, prepared to do so if necessary). A male who conducts himself honorably is a man. It's what makes a "real man" stand apart from the other males.

A man is unapologetic about these things. He's not embarassed by his greater size and strength. He does not see these as unfair. He respects women because he knows that a woman is an equal to a man, because she has advantages that he lacks, just as he has ones that she lacks. A real man is not afraid to acknowledge this and will partner with is wife so that they can both be at their best, complimenting each other's strengths and covering each other's weaknesses. They will be greater than the sum of their parts.

Females have a greather threshold of pain than males. Females have superior ability in language and detail. Females are more sensitive, have superior senses of smell and taste. Females live longer. A real man is not intimidated by these and has no need to try and pretend to be better in areas in which he is not. A real man is secure in who he is.

I would fight for my family. That is my role and responsibility. I would die for them. I provide for them, it's my duty. I revel in that and I love it. My wife works as well, and this doesn't cause me any embarassment as a man. Why should it? She's my equal and my partner. Sometimes I help her, sometimes she helps me. It's the ideal.

A real man ignores stigmas associated with males showing emotion, doing housework or taking care of his children directly. Such stigmas are stupid and based upon a system in which men were expected to distance themselves with "woman's work." A real man knows how to prepare meals, how to clean the house, and how to care for his children. A male who has children and had never changed a diaper is no man. He's a pretender.

Having said that, there's been a trend in popular culture to blur the lines between a male and a man. A certain stgma has been attached to being macho. This is stupid. It tells men not to be who they are. It demeans them while trying to tell them that somehow by being less "manly" they're somehow serving the needs of society. This is bull. Those who say these things rail against manly behavior as being unnatural and cultural. Tell me, what could possibly be more unnatural than a man supressing his natural male biological role? The concept of masculinity is all but erased from pop culture. Manliness is being characterised as brutish neanderthal-like behavior, and the concept of honor is sneered at.

Little wonder so few people in this thread are even willing to acknowledge that there IS a concept like MANLY man-ness, let alone know what it is.

The same goes for women, by the way. To acknowledge that males are larger, stronger, have superior eyesight and mathematical ability (again, on average) is seen as sexist and politically incorrect. A real Woman is secure in who she is and unafraid to be who she wants to be. She doesn't force herself into a life she's not comfortable in just to please others. If she wants to have a career, she will have one and do well. If she doesn't, she feels no need to explain herself to feminists who believe that any woman sho chooses to be a homemaker is somehow brainwashed or too mentally weak to assert herself (which my wife pointed out is a sort of sexism in itself. If she chose to stay at home with the kids, should that not be her right and choice, as a woman? Any feminist author who says differently is guilty of exactly the same sexism as men are often accused of.)

So in conclucion: What makes a man a MAN is the same thing that makes a woman a WOMAN. An ability to be comfortable in who they are, to see their differences as a positive thing, and to be able to work with their spouse to enhance their abilities as equal partners.
Neo Bretonnia
16-08-2007, 14:58
Men usually have penises, but sometimes a woman might have a penis by accident and need it removed. Also, sometimes a man doesn't have a penis because he was born with a vulva and needs that mistake repaired also.

That is all.

(oh, and don't listen to the "real man" B.S. people make that crap up because they are insecure. if there isn't a such thing as a "real woman" there cannot be a such thing as a "real man" it's gender stereotype B.S.)

Who says there aren't any real women?
Smunkeeville
16-08-2007, 15:01
Who says there aren't any real women?

I am a pretty "masculine" woman, I have been told that's okay because as a woman I can "be whatever I want" and not loose my woman-ness. Men however for some reason don't have that option. I don't think it's fair.
Cabra West
16-08-2007, 15:04
Q:How many real men does it take to change a lightbulb?
A:None. Real men aren't afraid of the dark.

Q:How many real Women does it take to change a lightbulb?
A:None. A real woman can make a man do it for her.

Kidding aside:

As someone pointed out, anatomy makes a person male or female. How they carry themselves makes them a man (or woman) or not.

And yeah, it's cultural. People say it like it's a bad thing. It isn't.

Biologically and psychologically men are designed for roles that serve to protect and support their families. That part isn't cultural, it's how we're made naturally. Males are larger, stronger and more aggressive (on average). Making good and honorable use of those traits is what makes a male a man.

A male who beats his wife is no man. A male who beats his children is no man. A male who conducts himself dishonorably is a pretender at best.

On the other hand, a male who use his strength to protect and defend his family is a man (or is, at least, prepared to do so if necessary). A male who conducts himself honorably is a man. It's what makes a "real man" stand apart from the other males.

A man is unapologetic about these things. He's not embarassed by his greater size and strength. He does not see these as unfair. He respects women because he knows that a woman is an equal to a man, because she has advantages that he lacks, just as he has ones that she lacks. A real man is not afraid to acknowledge this and will partner with is wife so that they can both be at their best, complimenting each other's strengths and covering each other's weaknesses. They will be greater than the sum of their parts.

Females have a greather threshold of pain than males. Females have superior ability in language and detail. Females are more sensitive, have superior senses of smell and taste. Females live longer. A real man is not intimidated by these and has no need to try and pretend to be better in areas in which he is not. A real man is secure in who he is.

I would fight for my family. That is my role and responsibility. I would die for them. I provide for them, it's my duty. I revel in that and I love it. My wife works as well, and this doesn't cause me any embarassment as a man. Why should it? She's my equal and my partner. Sometimes I help her, sometimes she helps me. It's the ideal.

A real man ignores stigmas associated with males showing emotion, doing housework or taking care of his children directly. Such stigmas are stupid and based upon a system in which men were expected to distance themselves with "woman's work." A real man knows how to prepare meals, how to clean the house, and how to care for his children. A male who has children and had never changed a diaper is no man. He's a pretender.

Having said that, there's been a trend in popular culture to blur the lines between a male and a man. A certain stgma has been attached to being macho. This is stupid. It tells men not to be who they are. It demeans them while trying to tell them that somehow by being less "manly" they're somehow serving the needs of society. This is bull. Those who say these things rail against manly behavior as being unnatural and cultural. Tell me, what could possibly be more unnatural than a man supressing his natural male biological role? The concept of masculinity is all but erased from pop culture. Manliness is being characterised as brutish neanderthal-like behavior, and the concept of honor is sneered at.

Little wonder so few people in this thread are even willing to acknowledge that there IS a concept like MANLY man-ness, let alone know what it is.

The same goes for women, by the way. To acknowledge that males are larger, stronger, have superior eyesight and mathematical ability (again, on average) is seen as sexist and politically incorrect. A real Woman is secure in who she is and unafraid to be who she wants to be. She doesn't force herself into a life she's not comfortable in just to please others. If she wants to have a career, she will have one and do well. If she doesn't, she feels no need to explain herself to feminists who believe that any woman sho chooses to be a homemaker is somehow brainwashed or too mentally weak to assert herself (which my wife pointed out is a sort of sexism in itself. If she chose to stay at home with the kids, should that not be her right and choice, as a woman? Any feminist author who says differently is guilty of exactly the same sexism as men are often accused of.)

So in conclucion: What makes a man a MAN is the same thing that makes a woman a WOMAN. An ability to be comfortable in who they are, to see their differences as a positive thing, and to be able to work with their spouse to enhance their abilities as equal partners.

So, to sum that up, being a socially responsible person is the characteristic of a true man?
I can't help wondering what you think makes a true woman?
Remote Observer
16-08-2007, 15:04
The old fashioned definition makes a "MAN" to be someone who is, in modern parlance, an elitist leader. It's not politically correct to be elitist, or to point out that some people are more capable than others, so it's bad to be a "MAN" in today's modern world for more reasons than simple gender identification.

However, any woman can be an elitist leader.

Such a person (man or woman) holds themselves and all others to the highest standards. They acknowledge that only a few excel, but they encourages us all to strive for, applaud, and appreciate the best in all arenas.

They frame their appreciation of human achievement in a strong moral code which allows little tolerance for human weakness. Their code is based on traditions of honor and integrity and acknowledges absolutes of right and wrong.

For many people, they are not easy to be around. They do not participate in small talk and do not suffer fools. They have no time for what they considers to be trivia, and that includes most of what the average person finds himself concerned with on a day-to-day basis. They are concerned with accomplishment and excellence and hold themselves to that single concern. That offends some people and causes them to characterize them as arrogant and elitist.
Neo Bretonnia
16-08-2007, 15:06
I am a pretty "masculine" woman, I have been told that's okay because as a woman I can "be whatever I want" and not loose my woman-ness. Men however for some reason don't have that option. I don't think it's fair.

That is an interesting situation. One time when my wife and I were discussing something just like that (we talk about these things a lot) we noticed that males seem to have to meet a minimum standard to achieve "manness" while women seem to be feminine by default unless you somehow add male traits to them. It's weird and one-directional. (Hopefully you'll notice in my tirade below that I do not promote such a standard.)

We related it to why gay women are not stereotypically perceived as less feminine and yet gay men are perceived as less masculine. I don't know why that is but for whatever reason, it seems pretty well ingrained in the psyche. It certainly isn't consistent or fair.
Peepelonia
16-08-2007, 15:06
I am a pretty "masculine" woman, I have been told that's okay because as a woman I can "be whatever I want" and not loose my woman-ness. Men however for some reason don't have that option. I don't think it's fair.

Ohh I don't know, 'what makes a man a man' is obviously such a subjective question that we would expect to see all sorts of answers(and indeed we have) so in a similar vein, if I say a feminine man is still a man, who is going to change my mind?
Neo Bretonnia
16-08-2007, 15:06
So, to sum that up, being a socially responsible person is the characteristic of a true man?
I can't help wondering what you think makes a true woman?

If you have to wonder, then you didn't read the whole post to the end.
Remote Observer
16-08-2007, 15:08
If you have to wonder, then you didn't read the whole post to the end.

Neo, most people don't even read posts. They see the first sentence, and kneejerk their response.
Neo Bretonnia
16-08-2007, 15:09
Neo, most people don't even read posts. They see the first sentence, and kneejerk their response.

QFT
Smunkeeville
16-08-2007, 15:20
That is an interesting situation. One time when my wife and I were discussing something just like that (we talk about these things a lot) we noticed that males seem to have to meet a minimum standard to achieve "manness" while women seem to be feminine by default unless you somehow add male traits to them. It's weird and one-directional. (Hopefully you'll notice in my tirade below that I do not promote such a standard.)

We related it to why gay women are not stereotypically perceived as less feminine and yet gay men are perceived as less masculine. I don't know why that is but for whatever reason, it seems pretty well ingrained in the psyche. It certainly isn't consistent or fair.

yes, this is exactly what I am talking about. My husband for example has arachnophobia, really, not just "eww, crawly things" but really really terrified. Other men make fun of him for this, some when he was younger told him he must be gay......

However, I am not afraid of spiders, or other various crawly things, they are an inconvenience, and while everyone else shrieks and runs, I go pick them up and get rid of them. I am not told that I am "less of a woman" because of this, I am applauded. If I were afraid of the plethora of creepy crawlies I wouldn't be made fun of either, it would be seen as "normal" because I am a girl.

it's not fair.
Peepelonia
16-08-2007, 15:25
yes, this is exactly what I am talking about. My husband for example has arachnophobia, really, not just "eww, crawly things" but really really terrified. Other men make fun of him for this, some when he was younger told him he must be gay......

However, I am not afraid of spiders, or other various crawly things, they are an inconvenience, and while everyone else shrieks and runs, I go pick them up and get rid of them. I am not told that I am "less of a woman" because of this, I am applauded. If I were afraid of the plethora of creepy crawlies I wouldn't be made fun of either, it would be seen as "normal" because I am a girl.

it's not fair.

I too am aracnaphobic. Whilst my wife gets rid of any spider that dares invade our property, I can be found crouched on the highest part of the sofa screaming 'get it out get it out'.

Ohh and heh lifes not fair.
Neo Bretonnia
16-08-2007, 15:28
yes, this is exactly what I am talking about. My husband for example has arachnophobia, really, not just "eww, crawly things" but really really terrified. Other men make fun of him for this, some when he was younger told him he must be gay......

However, I am not afraid of spiders, or other various crawly things, they are an inconvenience, and while everyone else shrieks and runs, I go pick them up and get rid of them. I am not told that I am "less of a woman" because of this, I am applauded. If I were afraid of the plethora of creepy crawlies I wouldn't be made fun of either, it would be seen as "normal" because I am a girl.

it's not fair.

I think in a lot of ways we, as a civilization, are getting over the bizarre sexist ideas of the past, and your examples are perfect.

At the same time I think there's a lot of overcompensation. Not everything traditional is bad, and equality =/= equivalence. I think once we get the pendulum back into the center, we'll be alright.
Neo Bretonnia
16-08-2007, 15:29
I too am aracnaphobic. Whilst my wife gets rid of any spider that dares invade our property, I can be found crouched on the highest part of the sofa screaming 'get it out get it out'.

Ohh and heh lifes not fair.

I like spiders because they reduce insects, which I despise.

And yes, I have a pet tarantula. Out of consideration for those who live with arachnophobia, I'll spare you the details :)
Bottle
16-08-2007, 16:10
I've started, and then deleted, half a dozen possible responses to this thread. But there's just so much wrongness in one place that my brain fizzles out before I can even begin to formulate a cogent response.

Sigh.
Bottle
16-08-2007, 16:16
That is an interesting situation. One time when my wife and I were discussing something just like that (we talk about these things a lot) we noticed that males seem to have to meet a minimum standard to achieve "manness" while women seem to be feminine by default unless you somehow add male traits to them. It's weird and one-directional. (Hopefully you'll notice in my tirade below that I do not promote such a standard.)

In my culture, at this time, "masculinity" is pretty much defined by what it is not. A Manly Man is one who lacks all those icky girlie traits. A Manly Man is not afraid (the way women are!). A Manly Man is not concerned about his physical appearance (the way women are!). A Manly Man does not know how to do chores (the way women do!). And so forth.

Masculinity is fragile and must be diligently protected by the Manly Man. If the Manly Man slips up and exhibits a feminine trait or shows interest in a feminine activity, his masculinity is in danger! DEFEND! DEFEND!

This is part of why women catch such hell for daring to venture into "male" areas of society and culture.

If women work construction, then construction work is no longer exclusively Manly! It it tainted with femaleness, and Manly Men must now worry that being a construction worker isn't entirely Manly enough!

If girls are good at school, then school and intelligence aren't only for boys, and therefore boys who are studious are...gay? Girlie-men? Well, whatever they are, clearly they're not manly enough because they're doing something GIRLS do!


We related it to why gay women are not stereotypically perceived as less feminine and yet gay men are perceived as less masculine. I don't know why that is but for whatever reason, it seems pretty well ingrained in the psyche. It certainly isn't consistent or fair.
This is because males are at the top of the social order. It is viewed as sensible (if not acceptable) for females to aspire to be masculine, because masculine = good. For a male to desire to be feminine, or to choose to take on feminine roles in any way, is mind-boggling because he is moving DOWN the social ladder when he does so.