NationStates Jolt Archive

Is conservatism the problem? The Bush Administration is made up of conservatives, and they tricked everyone into Iraq.

Most Islamic Terrorist groups out there are hardcore conservative religious murders who want everyone to join Islam or die.

You rarely if ever hear anything about Liberals running around with groups shooting eachother. And in the case of Venezuela's president, that administration will crash & burn eventually like the Soviet Union.

So is conservatism the problem? Can all the worlds problems be summed up as conservatives butting heads?

Not necessarily. Many groups that could be described as "progressive" contribute to problems.

The Russian revolution and the rise of Leninism was hardly a conservative-oriented endeavour.

So is conservatism the problem?

There are multiple problems. American "conservativism" is one of them.

Is conservatism the problem? The Bush Administration is made up of conservatives, and they tricked everyone into Iraq.

Most Islamic Terrorist groups out there are hardcore conservative religious murders who want everyone to join Islam or die.

You rarely if ever hear anything about Liberals running around with groups shooting eachother. And in the case of Venezuela's president, that administration will crash & burn eventually like the Soviet Union.

So is conservatism the problem? Can all the worlds problems be summed up as conservatives butting heads?

yes.

does seem to be, but more specifically, extroverted conservatism. the ones that keep to themselves don't bother anyone. and of course there are other problems

Do you even think about this before you post it?

Is conservatism the problem? The Bush Administration is made up of conservatives, and they tricked everyone into Iraq.

Even a cursory listening to conservative talk radio will reveal that a great many conservatives do NOT see Bush as being a true conservative. Seeing them as an example of the Conservative movement is skewering your perception right there.

And, not to get into a debate about who tricked who, but talk of invading Iraq over WMDs was going on at the White House during the Clinton administration. (Or are you suggesting that Clinton was a Conservative?)
Did it ever occur to you that all this "trickery" might just be B.S.?


Most Islamic Terrorist groups out there are hardcore conservative religious murders who want everyone to join Islam or die.

You're comparing American Conservatives to Islamic Jihadists and you want this post to be taken seriously?

You rarely if ever hear anything about Liberals running around with groups shooting eachother. And in the case of Venezuela's president, that administration will crash & burn eventually like the Soviet Union.

So... you're suggesting that Leftistst problems are temporary and therefore okay (regardless of how many die along the way), but Conservatives problems are really bad and permanent?


So is conservatism the problem? Can all the worlds problems be summed up as conservatives butting heads?

No. The world's problems can't be easily summed up because lunatics and morons come in all shapes, sizes, ideologies and races.

Bush and his cronies are not conservative.

Do you even think about this before you post it?

Meh, to be honest, I was bored. And wanted to see if I could rouse NS to some posting. ;)

Even a cursory listening to conservative talk radio will reveal that a great many conservatives do NOT see Bush as being a true conservative. Seeing them as an example of the Conservative movement is skewering your perception right there.

Doesn't matter what they saw Bush as. It mattered that they kept voting the idiot in and siding with him on alot of things.

And, not to get into a debate about who tricked who, but talk of invading Iraq over WMDs was going on at the White House during the Clinton administration. (Or are you suggesting that Clinton was a Conservative?)
Did it ever occur to you that all this "trickery" might just be B.S.?

Meh, Its not an either/or with me. I don't like Clinton either.

You're comparing American Conservatives to Islamic Jihadists and you want this post to be taken seriously?

About the only reason I think American's haven't gone to the extremes of Islamic Jihadist is because we're pretty well taken care of over here.

So... you're suggesting that Leftistst problems are temporary and therefore okay (regardless of how many die along the way), but Conservatives problems are really bad and permanent?

...No, I'm saying that leftist problems always seem so silly when compared to their conservative counter-parts.:p

Seriously, what is the worst that leftist do? All gather together in some big pro-gay, enviromentalist, pacifist circle and join hands? Thats hardly harmful to anyone.

No. The world's problems can't be easily summed up because lunatics and morons come in all shapes, sizes, ideologies and races.

Yes, but the most recent lunatics & morons are...wait for it...CONSERVATIVE:D

"Most Islamic Terrorist groups out there are hardcore conservative religious murders who want everyone to join Islam or die."

They could care less if you converted to Islam or not, they will kill anybody who disagrees with them on any issue. They blow themselves up in the street and kill other Islamic people, do you think they care?

Also as mentioned before, Clinton administration did indeed start the search for WMDs, but they just didn't take it as far as the current administration. Also that same administration is the one that gave Korea nuclear capabilities, so now we are dealing with a problem caused by a liberal choice. Not all the problems in the world are because of conservatives. Also, it wasn't just conservatives that decided to go to Iraq. Plenty of liberal members voted to go as well, and they had the same pre-existing intelligence that the conservative party did. I'm not meaning to protect the conservative party, but it's wrong and just plain ignorant to blame ALL the world problems on one group of people.

Worst thing the leftists did in my opinion, is vote to send soldiers into war and then cut their funding so they can't do their job. While my brother was over there, he even based in a bunker for a while, where half of the people didn't even have the newest kevlar vests, they were using some from 2000, and their humvee wasn't even armored. Yes I know a few conservatives are voting for this as well, but the overwhelming majority are leftists.

There are many brands of conservatism, and it's a necessary ideology to temper the changes brought by progressive forces that could strain the capacity of society to adapt.

In the US, however, part of the problem is the pandering of the current administration to all sorts of conservatism, no matter how crazy or backwards they are. Specially bad is the use of government to impose its will on what should be personal choices and seeing military force as the main instrument of diplomacy.

Other problems have nothing to do with being conservative or liberal, but just plain incompetent, like offending all your allies and involving the country in a war over non-existing WMDs (yes, there was talk of it during the Clinton era [that I wouldn't call liberal], but they never knew for sure that there were WMDs in Iraq, and so held off on full scale military intervention, which was wise. The current administration chose to think that even a small possibility was enough cause for war. That was foolish).

So, the problem is not so much conservatism, but lack of self-criticism in the current conservative movement and incompetence at the federal level.

No. New Labour contributed to the foreign policy cock up in Iraq, and have contrived to royally fuck up Britain, and they're hardly conservative.

The EU is a tediously "progressive" organisation, and is equally malign as a force.

Meh, to be honest, I was bored. And wanted to see if I could rouse NS to some posting. ;)


Alright fair 'nuff.


Doesn't matter what they saw Bush as. It mattered that they kept voting the idiot in and siding with him on alot of things.


In '04 Bush won the election by a wide margin. It wasn't Conservatives alone who voted him into a second term.

Meh, Its not an either/or with me. I don't like Clinton either.
Well neither do I but that's not the point. if you're gonna ding somebody on the Iraq war, ding EVERYBODY who was for it. This case doesn't support the idea of Conservatives or Liberals being to blame.



About the only reason I think American's haven't gone to the extremes of Islamic Jihadist is because we're pretty well taken care of over here.

I'd be interested in knowing what you base a conclusion like that on.


...No, I'm saying that leftist problems always seem so silly when compared to their conservative counter-parts.:p

Seriously, what is the worst that leftist do? All gather together in some big pro-gay, enviromentalist, pacifist circle and join hands? Thats hardly harmful to anyone.

As was mentioned before, I hardly think the 10 - 20 million who died in the reorganization of the Soviet Union would consider that silly. I hardly think the people whose businesses are being seized by the Venezuelan Government think it's silly.


Yes, but the most recent lunatics & morons are...wait for it...CONSERVATIVE:D
I know you're kinda joking but I still disagree ;)

Nah, it's anyone who has absolute faith in their beliefs, and lacks any self-doubt. I mean, hell, absolutists are in every ideology, they're practically religious, even if they espouse openly anti-religion viewpoints.

In the US, however, part of the problem is the pandering of the current administration to all sorts of conservatism, no matter how crazy or backwards they are. Specially bad is the use of government to impose its will on what should be personal choices and seeing military force as the main instrument of diplomacy.

Actually, within Conservative circles the Administration is seen as pandering to the left.


Other problems have nothing to do with being conservative or liberal, but just plain incompetent, like offending all your allies and involving the country in a war over non-existing WMDs (yes, there was talk of it during the Clinton era [that I wouldn't call liberal], but they never knew for sure that there were WMDs in Iraq, and so held off on full scale military intervention, which was wise. The current administration chose to think that even a small possibility was enough cause for war. That was foolish).


You're right it wasn't conservative or liberal, since many Democrat Senators and figureheads spoke in favor of Invasion even after 2000.


So, the problem is not so much conservatism, but lack of self-criticism in the current conservative movement and incompetence at the federal level.

In limiting the scope to this country alone, I'd agree a year ago, but I think the Republicans have lost a lot of their "my crap doesn't stink" mentality and are doing a better job of owning up. Guliani seems to be the pack leader on that.

Nah, it's anyone who has absolute faith in their beliefs, and lacks any self-doubt. I mean, hell, absolutists are in every ideology, they're practically religious, even if they espouse openly anti-religion viewpoints.

I think sometimes that's the case, and other times the most virulent and aggressive religious zealots are the way they are BECAUSE they have doubts and seek to gain validation by converting others.

I could tell you some stories...

Nah, it's anyone who has absolute faith in their beliefs, and lacks any self-doubt. I mean, hell, absolutists are in every ideology, they're practically religious, even if they espouse openly anti-religion viewpoints.

I half agree with this. I believe it is those with absolute faith with no doubt, but I also believe that its not all of this type. The ones that I have a problem with, is the ones that will kill, or use force to make others convert. For instance, I don't remember the previous pope oppressing anybody due to religion, and I'm pretty sure that he absolutely believed in his religion.

Do you even think about this before you post it?
Probably not.



Even a cursory listening to conservative talk radio will reveal that a great many conservatives do NOT see Bush as being a true conservative. Seeing them as an example of the Conservative movement is skewering your perception right there.

And, not to get into a debate about who tricked who, but talk of invading Iraq over WMDs was going on at the White House during the Clinton administration. (Or are you suggesting that Clinton was a Conservative?)
Did it ever occur to you that all this "trickery" might just be B.S.?

Listening to conservative talk radio is skewering the perception too. They think nobody's conservative enough, and that include other conservative talk radio hosts. Oh, and Clinton WAS a consevative.




You're comparing American Conservatives to Islamic Jihadists and you want this post to be taken seriously?

that could be a valid comparison, given other circumstances.



So... you're suggesting that Leftistst problems are temporary and therefore okay (regardless of how many die along the way), but Conservatives problems are really bad and permanent?

Yeah, he's way off base there.



No. The world's problems can't be easily summed up because lunatics and morons come in all shapes, sizes, ideologies and races.

Agreed.

http://allvintagestore.com/Toys%20Pics/TRoll%20Peach%20jewel.jpg

that could be a valid comparison, given other circumstances.


I think to make that comparison one would have to SEVERELY limit the frame of reference.

I think to make that comparison one would have to SEVERELY limit the frame of reference.

Well both are a loosely affiliated, right-leaning amalgam of people involved in Irak, present in the news every day, that think it holds the truth(tm), despise each other (not to mention everyone else) and hates Clinton.

So, yeah, a comparison is possible.

Well both are a loosely affiliated, right-leaning amalgam of people involved in Irak, present in the news every day, that think it holds the truth(tm), despise each other (not to mention everyone else) and hates Clinton.

So, yeah, a comparison is possible.

Ok so either severely limit the frame of reference, or make it so vague that it can apply to both ;)

Bush and his cronies are not conservative.

That would make the "real" conservatives who'd been propping "Bush and his cronies" for so long a bit daft then, wouldn't it?