NationStates Jolt Archive

A man carrying his baby home was tasered by a hospital security guard, causing him to drop the baby and potentially have caused brain damage. The man was charged with child endangerment, which a grand jury refused to indict. From the video, it sure looks like the security guard randomly attacked the guy with a taser and was prepared to use it early on. He just lashes out and tasers the guy. I honestly think these things have to be banned.

Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070814/ap_on_re_us/tasered_dad)

HOUSTON - In a confrontation captured on videotape, a hospital security guard fired a stun gun to stop a defiant father from taking home his newborn, sending both man and child crashing to the floor. Now William Lewis says his baby girl suffers from head trauma because she was dropped.

"I've got to wonder what kind of moron would Tase an adult holding a baby," said George Kirkham, a former police officer and criminologist at Florida State University. "It doesn't take rocket science to realize the baby is going to fall."

Lewis, 30, said the April 13 episode began after he and his wife felt mistreated by staff at the Woman's Hospital of Texas and they decided to leave. Hospital employees told him doctors would not allow it, but Lewis picked up the baby and strode to a bank of elevators.

The elevators would not move because wristband sensors on each baby shut them off if anyone takes an infant without permission.

Lewis, who gave the video to The Associated Press, said his daughter landed on her head, but it cannot be seen on the video. He said the baby continues to suffer ill effects from the fall.

"She shakes a lot and cries a lot," Lewis said, noting doctors have performed several MRIs on the child, Karla. "She's not real responsive. Something is definitely wrong with my daughter."

It was not clear whether the baby received any electrical jolt.

Child Protective Services has custody of the baby because of a history of domestic violence between Lewis and his wife, Jacqueline Gray. Agency spokeswoman Estella Olguin said the infant does not appear to be suffering any health problems from the fall.

David Boling, an off-duty Houston police officer working security at the hospital, and another security guard can be seen on the surveillance video arriving at the elevators and trying to talk with Lewis. Lewis appears agitated as he walks around the elevators holding his daughter in his right arm.

Within 40 seconds of arriving, Boling is holding the Taser. He walks around Lewis and whispers to the other guard, who moves to Lewis' right side.

About a minute later, Boling can be seen casually standing near Lewis, not looking in his direction, when he suddenly raises the Taser and fires it at Lewis, who was still holding his daughter.

Lewis drops to the floor. The other guard, who has not been identified, scoops up the baby and gives her to the child's mother, who was standing nearby in a hospital gown.

The guard then pulls Lewis to his feet with his arms locked behind him. Lewis' T-shirt has two holes under the left side of his chest where the Taser prongs hit him.

Lewis said he did not see the stun gun.

"My wife said `we want to leave' and then he just Tasered me," Lewis said. "He caused me to drop the child."

In a statement, the hospital said Lewis was hostile and uncooperative toward staff members who were trying to find out his relationship to the infant when they saw him trying to leave. Neither Lewis or Gray had indicated they wanted a discharge, according to the statement.

"Mr. Lewis became verbally abusive by using vulgar expletives. When Mr. Lewis' behavior became threatening, endangering the infant and employees, licensed law enforcement officers followed their professional standards to protect those involved," the statement said.

Lewis was arrested and charged with endangering a child. A grand jury in May declined to indict him on that charge, but charged him with retaliation, accusing him of making threats against Boling.

Lewis also has been charged with a second count of retaliation alleging he made a threatening call to Boling at his home.

Lewis denies both charges. He said he is considering suing the hospital but has not filed any legal papers.

Houston police spokesman Gabe Ortiz said the department did not investigate the officer's role, and he declined to elaborate. Boling did not immediately respond to a request for comment given to the police department.

Some 11,000 U.S. law enforcement agencies use Tasers, which some experts say are increasingly being used as a convenient labor-saving device to control uncooperative people.

"The Taser itself is a legitimate law-enforcement tool," said Kirkham, the criminologist. "The problem is the abusive use of them. They're supposed to be only used to protect yourself or another person from imminent aggression and physical harm. They're overused now."

The problem here isn't the taser, it's the asshole using it. If he isn't smart enough to know not to taser a man holding a newborn, then he shouldn't be carrying it.

Obviously the problem is the person using the taser. When trusting someone with the responsibility of such a tool, said individual must be worthy of that trust.

.....Lewis, 30, said the April 13 episode began after he and his wife felt mistreated by staff at the Woman's Hospital of Texas and they decided to leave. Hospital employees told him doctors would not allow it, but Lewis picked up the baby and strode to a bank of elevators.

.........In a statement, the hospital said Lewis was hostile and uncooperative toward staff members who were trying to find out his relationship to the infant when they saw him trying to leave

............Child Protective Services has custody of the baby because of a history of domestic violence between Lewis and his wife, Jacqueline Gray.


Reasonable minds can differ on how the guard handled the situation. I'd like to know what alternatives were available given the above facts taken from the article. Would it have been better to let him walk out the door with the kid? I don't think so.

Humans conduct electricity people!

This is how superheroes are made.

TASERGIRL!

Reasonable minds can differ on how the guard handled the situation. I'd like to know what alternatives were available given the above facts taken from the article. Would it have been better to let him walk out the door with the kid? I don't think so.
If you are coming up with "the best action to take on a verbally hostile man who is holding a baby, and who can't leave because the elevators won't work is to tase him," I think you should be tarred and feathered and tossed in a cell until you can figure out why that is a stupid fucking conclusion.

Why was Lewis charged with endangering a child when it was the numbskull of a security guard who tasered him?

Why was Lewis charged with endangering a child when it was the numbskull of a security guard who tasered him?

He was removing the baby without the hospital's permission. It was Lewis' actions that put the baby in the dangerous situation in the first place, but the charge was probably dropped because the actions of the guard actually caused harm to the newborn instead of the father.

Part of me says both Lewis and the guard should be charged, but that's just me.

Why was Lewis charged with endangering a child when it was the numbskull of a security guard who tasered him?

Because the numskull was projecting his "Warning! Mobile random Taser zone" sign, and not running away screaming from walking hazards like that is grounds for endangerment.

Dur.

/sarcasm.

ban tasers?
are we seriously going to go through life banning everything someone might misuse somewhere down the line?

a taser is an excellent alternative to hand guns. most of the taser "victims" come out alive

If you are coming up with "the best action to take on a verbally hostile man who is holding a baby, and who can't leave because the elevators won't work is to tase him," I think you should be tarred and feathered and tossed in a cell until you can figure out why that is a stupid fucking conclusion. and you are focusing on one thing only. Aggitated while holding the child in one arm? while the wife is standing nearby? you would think she would be holding the baby since the father was aggitated. espcially since both wanted to leave... but if she wanted to leave, why was she still in her hospital gown? she wasn't dressed to leave and it's rather unusual for her NOT to have her clothes handy. Or is securing the Mother's clothing SOP for mainland Hospitals?

was the guard right in using a taser on a man holding a baby? no. but should the guard let a newborn out of the hospital in the custody of a person whom hospital personnel could not verify the relationship? no

Lewis, 30, said the April 13 episode began after he and his wife felt mistreated by staff at the Woman's Hospital of Texas and they decided to leave. Hospital employees told him doctors would not allow it, but Lewis picked up the baby and strode to a bank of elevators.

The elevators would not move because wristband sensors on each baby shut them off if anyone takes an infant without permission. the same thing will happen here. infact, the ward doors, which are closed would lock and not open. an Emergency code would then be broadcast and every hospital employee would be alerted. add to that security would secure all stairwells.

attempted infant kidnapping is taken very seriously here.

Lewis, who gave the video to The Associated Press, said his daughter landed on her head, but it cannot be seen on the video. He said the baby continues to suffer ill effects from the fall.

"She shakes a lot and cries a lot," Lewis said, noting doctors have performed several MRIs on the child, Karla. "She's not real responsive. Something is definitely wrong with my daughter."

It was not clear whether the baby received any electrical jolt.

Child Protective Services has custody of the baby because of a history of domestic violence between Lewis and his wife, Jacqueline Gray. Agency spokeswoman Estella Olguin said the infant does not appear to be suffering any health problems from the fall.
so you have two claims. the Father saying the child is wrong with the child, and CPS who would've had the baby checked saying no apparent suffering from the fall and no clear indication of any electrial shock.

David Boling, an off-duty Houston police officer working security at the hospital, and another security guard can be seen on the surveillance video arriving at the elevators and trying to talk with Lewis. Lewis appears agitated as he walks around the elevators holding his daughter in his right arm.
Arm? is it normal for a Caring Father to hold their newborn with one arm?

Especially when aggitated?

While his wife/mother of the child is standing right there?

"My wife said `we want to leave' and then he just Tasered me," Lewis said. "He caused me to drop the child." then why was she dressed in a gown... unless he wanted to leave and she had no say...

In a statement, the hospital said Lewis was hostile and uncooperative toward staff members who were trying to find out his relationship to the infant when they saw him trying to leave. Neither Lewis or Gray had indicated they wanted a discharge, according to the statement. dunno what procedures or policies that hospital has, but here, both parents are banded indicating who is the parent for which child. however, the staff does have the right and responsiblity to question anyone attempting to leave with a baby.

"Mr. Lewis became verbally abusive by using vulgar expletives. When Mr. Lewis' behavior became threatening, endangering the infant and employees, licensed law enforcement officers followed their professional standards to protect those involved," the statement said. Too bad there was no audio with the video. perhaps that's the next step?

Some 11,000 U.S. law enforcement agencies use Tasers, which some experts say are increasingly being used as a convenient labor-saving device to control uncooperative people.

"The Taser itself is a legitimate law-enforcement tool," said Kirkham, the criminologist. "The problem is the abusive use of them. They're supposed to be only used to protect yourself or another person from imminent aggression and physical harm. They're overused now." that does seem to be the case.

He was removing the baby without the hospital's permission. It was Lewis' actions that put the baby in the dangerous situation in the first place, but the charge was probably dropped because the actions of the guard actually caused harm to the newborn instead of the father.

There was no reference to the baby requiring special hospitable care. If the parents wish to remove it from the hospitable, that's their business. The hospitable can try and talk them out of it, but upon failing, can't just resort to tasering.

Sounds to me like the father put the baby in that situation by ignoring doctors orders, and kidnapping the child (and yes I would call it kidnapping) and not listening to authority figures.

He was removing the baby without the hospital's permission. It was Lewis' actions that put the baby in the dangerous situation in the first place, but the charge was probably dropped because the actions of the guard actually caused harm to the newborn instead of the father.

So the father should have considered the possibility he would be tased while holding the child? I don't think someone should have to think of every idiotic act someone might take. It is the guard who should be charged with criminal stupidity at the very least.

but should the guard let a newborn out of the hospital in the custody of a person whom hospital personnel could not verify the relationship? no
Lewis, 30, said the April 13 episode began after he and his wife felt mistreated by staff at the Woman's Hospital of Texas and they decided to leave. Hospital employees told him doctors would not allow it, but Lewis picked up the baby and strode to a bank of elevators.

The elevators would not move because wristband sensors on each baby shut them off if anyone takes an infant without permission.

You people are focusing on the wrong thing, and wrong facts.

so you have two claims. the Father saying the child is wrong with the child, and CPS who would've had the baby checked saying no apparent suffering from the fall and no clear indication of any electrial shock.
If I havn't made it clear before, I will now - I don't trust Child Protective Services.



He was tasered while holding a baby; the only point that is relevant to this discussion. That is the second worst option that could have been taken right after physically ripping the baby from his arms, which I have no doubt they would have done. A man was tasered while holding a baby, end of story. If "proper procedures" lead to a man holding a baby being tasered, those procedures are shit. The man should have been calmed down and the baby taken from him.


Luckily, the jury, in a very rare case, has more sense than a number of people on this forum.

You people are focusing on the wrong thing, and wrong facts. which facts are wrong? was he attempting to leave the hospital without making arraingements with staff? (and FYI, they could still leave even if the Doctors are against it. it will be marked as ADA = Against Doctor's Advice. However, the STAFF still has to be informed.)

Did the staff KNOW he was the baby's father?

so to the guards and staff, he was a stranger trying to leave with a baby.

yet YOU are focusing on the guard tasering the father while he's holding the baby. I've aknowledged that and I also said the guard may have been wrong. Yet you are the one ignoring all other facts to focus on ONE fact.

If I havn't made it clear before, I will now - I don't trust Child Protective Services. It seems TPH, you don't trust anyone except yourself.

He was tasered while holding a baby; the only point that is relevant to this discussion. That is the second worst option that could have been taken right after physically ripping the baby from his arms, which I have no doubt they would have done. A man was tasered while holding a baby, end of story. If "proper procedures" lead to a man holding a baby being tasered, those procedures are shit. The man should have been calmed down and the baby taken from him. so what's the alternative. letting a sicko stranger walk away with your infant daughter because Guards and staff were too afraid to stop him? I bet should that happen you would be screaming at the top of your lungs to have those hospital staff arrested.

oh wait... the elevators won't open so he couldn't leave... too bad all buldings, including hospitals, are required to have Stairs for emergency exits. so it's not that he was really trapped.

and by your above quote, there would be NO Physical way of stopping him since 1) any action would endanger the child he's holding would've been wrong. 2) any action to try to remove the child from him is endangering the child and thus would be wrong.

how would you stop him from leaving? (remember, YOU don't know he's the child's Father.)

Is there proof of any harm to the child?
If there is proof of lasting harm, then by all means, the guard should be held accountable.

Is there proof of any harm to the child?
If there is proof of lasting harm, then by all means, the guard should be held accountable.

So because there is no proof of the child being harmed, there is no issue here? It was fine for a man holding an infant to be tased?

So the father should have considered the possibility he would be tased while holding the child? I don't think someone should have to think of every idiotic act someone might take. It is the guard who should be charged with criminal stupidity at the very least.

It's not about the acts the father should have predicted, but about the situation he was creating by trying to take a baby out of a hospital without approval. As the article notes, he just grabbed the child and walked out, and no one is allowed to do that.

Some action needs to be taken against the guard, I agree with that. But, until the CPS that has custody of the child decides to press charges, it won't happen.

So because there is no proof of the child being harmed, there is no issue here? It was fine for a man holding an infant to be tased?

was the child harmed? if the child sustained no injury, are we arguing the POTENTIAL of injury?

it seemed that the second guard was there to safeguard the infant, being that the infant was the other guard's priority.

however, without the information given at the trial, who can say if the actual tasering was warrented or not.

If "proper procedures" lead to a man holding a baby being tasered, those procedures are shit
Quoted for good old truth and COMMON SENSE.

From what I read they already tried to talk him down so that was out of the question. Now they are met with a few decisions:
1. let a stranger leave with the baby-unthinkable, until they know of his connections with the baby he cannot leave.
2.Taser(I always thought it was tazer)-a little harsh and threatens the babies life so, no.
3.Forcibly remove the child from him-this could escalate the situation and put the baby in more harm than by tasering it.
4.Try to convince the wife to calm her husband down-good option if they had time but it sounds like he is going to leave through the stairs soon.
5.Threaten him with taserment-once again, this could escalate the situation and risk the babies life.
6.Seal down the hospital and let no one in or out-The other sick people may have a problem getting in when they need it.
7.Kill the baby-If he dies than there is no problem and the crisis is averted.

So I can see that they had a tough decision to make and he made a call based on what he thought best.

was the child harmed? if the child sustained no injury, are we arguing the POTENTIAL of injury?

it seemed that the second guard was there to safeguard the infant, being that the infant was the other guard's priority.

however, without the information given at the trial, who can say if the actual tasering was warrented or not.

What was the second guard supposed to do? Dive in front of the fathers falling body to cushion the fall and potential injury to the child? What that guard did by firing the taser was irrisponsible no matter the actions of the father. If that is the way the hospital solves situations like that then they really need to take a close look at their policies before a child is PROVED to be harmed by the heavyhandedness of their security personnel.

What was the second guard supposed to do? Dive in front of the fathers falling body to cushion the fall and potential injury to the child? What that guard did was irrisponsible no matter the actions of the father. If that is the way the hospital solves situations like that then they really need to take a close look at their policy before a child is PROVED to be harmed by the heavyhandedness of their security personnel.

and what did the second guard do? he secured the baby. it was in a HOSPITAL, so unless you can show that the staff refused to check the infant out they would've. the only reason why they wouldn't would be because they COULDN'T. I.e. the parents refused the examination (which is possible if it's also true that BOTH of them wanted to leave.)

again, same Question I posed to TPH, how would you stop someone from leaving without endanering the child they are holding?

and what did the second guard do? he secured the baby. it was in a HOSPITAL, so unless you can show that the staff refused to check the infant out they would've. the only reason why they wouldn't would be because they COULDN'T. I.e. the parents refused the examination (which is possible if it's also true that BOTH of them wanted to leave.)

again, same Question I posed to TPH, how would you stop someone from leaving without endanering the child they are holding?

He "secured" the baby AFTER the tasing, AFTER the father fell to the floor to the possible injurty to a newborn. Anyway to slice it it was a stupid thing to do unless it was a last resort which it hardly was. What else could have been done? How about blocking the man's way if he tried getting to the supposed stairs while continuing to speak with him? While this being done asking the mother if she knew him? Just about ANYTHING else? I'm sure this isn't the first time someone tried to take a baby out of the hospital, we haven't heard about any of them being tased. No, this is just a guard acting like an asshole and the hospital is now in full CYA mode to try to avoid culpabiity. Whether or not the child was hurt when the father was tased doesn't matter to me, the child could have been hurt because of the idiocy of security.

He "secured" the baby AFTER the tasing, AFTER the father fell to the floor to the possible injurty to a newborn. Anyway to slice it it was a stupid thing to do unless it was a last resort which it hardly was. What else could have been done? How about blocking the man's way if he tried getting to the supposed stairs while continuing to speak with him? While this being done asking the mother if she knew him? Just about ANYTHING else? I'm sure this isn't the first time someone tried to take a baby out of the hospital, we haven't heard about any of them being tased. No, this is just a guard acting like an asshole and the hospital is now in full CYA mode to try to avoid culpabiity. Whether or not the child was hurt when the father was tased doesn't matter to me, the child could have been hurt because of the idiocy of security.
and... what. how would you block the man's way without physical contact? have you tried to stop someone without physically grabing him? and once he gets to the stairs, then what. that's an even worse place to try and stop him.

yes, you don't hear about tasings at other hospitals because chances are those guards don't have tasers. I never said the guard was right in tasing. I even agreed with the observation that Tasing is becoming overused. but the father is not squeeky clean himself. He's as much to blame as the Guard. moreso since the Guard has the responsiblity of the hostpital Staff, Patients and visitors.

and yes, I've seen people taken down while trying to leave with a baby. physically taken down, child forcebly removed from their arms. something TPH also said shouldn't be done because it endangers the child.

And while that would be kidnapper is taken down, as soon as the baby is clearned, it's immediately (read: as fast as the security person can run) taken to be checked out by doctors standing by. As I said, all hospital employees, even ME, get the alert when an unaurthorized infant removal attempt is taking place.

and... what. how would you block the man's way without physical contact? have you tried to stop someone without physically grabing him? and once he gets to the stairs, then what. that's an even worse place to try and stop him.

yes, you don't hear about tasings at other hospitals because chances are those guards don't have tasers. I never said the guard was right in tasing. I even agreed with the observation that Tasing is becoming overused. but the father is not squeeky clean himself. He's as much to blame as the Guard. moreso since the Guard has the responsiblity of the hostpital Staff, Patients and visitors.

and yes, I've seen people taken down while trying to leave with a baby. physically taken down, child forcebly removed from their arms. something TPH also said shouldn't be done because it endangers the child.

And while that would be kidnapper is taken down, as soon as the baby is clearned, it's immediately (read: as fast as the security person can run) taken to be checked out by doctors standing by. As I said, all hospital employees, even ME, get the alert when an unaurthorized infant removal attempt is taking place.

Well, we don't know if the man would have become physically violent, that is pure speculation and without such an occurance going into trying to force the baby out of his arms seems foolish to me. And one would not neccessarily have to physically restrain him, perhaps just standing in his path would have sufficed. Perhaps not as well but we will never know since the guard decided to just go with the simplistic direct approach. Who knows how the tasered man would have fallen with the baby in his arms? Taking that kind of chance is just stupid. If it does become neccessary though then taking the child physically would have been a better option than TASING him. I can accept that physical action may have become neccessary but I believe it hadn't reached that point yet.

Well, we don't know if the man would have become physically violent, that is pure speculation and without such an occurance going into trying to force the baby out of his arms seems foolish to me. And one would not neccessarily have to physically restrain him, perhaps just standing in his path would have sufficed. Perhaps not as well but we will never know since the guard decided to just go with the simplistic direct approach. Who knows how the tasered man would have fallen with the baby in his arms? Taking that kind of chance is just stupid. If it does become neccessary though then taking the child physically would have been a better option than TASING him. I can accept that physical action may have become neccessary but I believe it hadn't reached that point yet.

And that's a tough choice. after all, if one waits till he becomes physically violent, then that would harm the child.

and if he wasn't how can one stop him? lock down the stairwells? that's against the fire code.

Seal the Hospital? again impossible. I'm sure they would've found a way had they NOT been armed with tasers. perhaps four of them with one person's only responsiblity is to secure the child.

but considering he's holding the infant with one hand... even moderatly aggitated, it may seem more threatening to the child's safety.

And that's a tough choice. after all, if one waits till he becomes physically violent, then that would harm the child.

and if he wasn't how can one stop him? lock down the stairwells? that's against the fire code.

Seal the Hospital? again impossible. I'm sure they would've found a way had they NOT been armed with tasers. perhaps four of them with one person's only responsiblity is to secure the child.

but considering he's holding the infant with one hand... even moderatly aggitated, it may seem more threatening to the child's safety.

I suppose any act the hospital takes (other than this instance) could be debated either way. I simply cannot grasp the thought process that leads to tasing the guy. The responses you mentioned would have been much more acceptable than this.

Regardless, this guy really should avoid any ideas of suing. Given his background and what he was doing at the time he really should just shut his mouth. Still, the hospital should take internal action and fire the idiot guard.

Regardless, this guy really should avoid any ideas of suing. Given his background and what he was doing at the time he really should just shut his mouth. Still, the hospital should take internal action and fire the idiot guard.

I agree. or at least a closer look at their Policies and Procedures.

Note to TPH, I never countered your claims that their policies were stupid. everything looks good on paper, it's when it's put into action that the flaws are seen. What will tell us alot about the hospital is what actions they take after this incident. :cool:

and don't expect to see those changes publicized. ;)