NationStates Jolt Archive

It seems unfair to exclude (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070813/ap_on_re_us/foster_care_age_limits) foster kids from this bonanza that many young adult children experience. Just think, the lucky kids with parents can stay at home, not pay rent, have someone else do their cleaning...But foster kids lose their financial support from the government at the instant they turn 18. After all, as Mr. Anthony Pico puts it, "“I’m an adult, but I don’t want to move out. I don’t want to start paying rent."

Why should we make him?

Because he is an adult and we expect adults to be self-sufficient.

One more reason I love pro-lifers: "Welcome to the world! We saved you from abortion!

Fuck off."

Does anyone ever really want to start paying rent and cleaning up after themselves?

I mean, why if you could get someone else to do it for free?

Because he is an adult and we expect adults to be self-sufficient.

We do? News to me, given all of the things we do to emasculate people of their self-sufficiency, as a culture. I dunno about you, but I won't be any more self-sufficient in one week than I am today, and I'll be 18 then. Seems to me if we're going to be creating faux-self sufficiency based on an arbitrary line, we should wait for a point where faux-self sufficiency can, at least, be justified.

We do? News to me, given all of the things we do to emasculate people of their self-sufficiency, as a culture. I dunno about you, but I won't be any more self-sufficient in one week than I am today, and I'll be 18 then. Seems to me if we're going to be creating faux-self sufficiency based on an arbitrary line, we should wait for a point where faux-self sufficiency can, at least, be justified.
That's your own fault, then. At eighteen, you are eligible to enlist in the military. You can pursue full-time employment at one or more jobs that only require a high school diploma. I'd say all the opportunity you need is right outside that front door.

Does anyone ever really want to start paying rent and cleaning up after themselves?

I mean, why if you could get someone else to do it for free?

true that.

We do? News to me, given all of the things we do to emasculate people of their self-sufficiency, as a culture. I dunno about you, but I won't be any more self-sufficient in one week than I am today, and I'll be 18 then. Seems to me if we're going to be creating faux-self sufficiency based on an arbitrary line, we should wait for a point where faux-self sufficiency can, at least, be justified.

Heh yes I agree there will be a sharp learning curb.

Well...

One can dismiss this as immaturity. But look a bit deeper.

Right out of college or right out of high-school (not intending to seek higher education right now)... it seems logical that some children would prefer to stay home a bit longer after they "graduate" to adulthood (by virtue of their age) so they can...aclimate. They have no real, stable job, no real income, and just need a place to stay.

And what if they're financially unable to "move out"? Wouldn't it be the decent thing to do to allow the child to stay at their parents home for a while?

I read somewhere, and correct me if I'm wrong please, that in countries like Italy it is fairly common to see kids stay home after reaching "adulthood", so they can have a safe harbor as they branch out into the world. I don't know why it isn't more so in the US.

BUT MORE TO THE POINT!

In my opinion...as strange as this sounds...Pico here was raised by the foster care system; they are his parents. He's not ready? Then you should not thrust him into the world. Any good biological parent should do the same. So long as the child is making an effort to branch out -finding a job, a good home- I don't see why not.

This is a taxpayer system though, so there should be a reasonable cut-off age for support for foster care.

...Am I making any sense? :p

Heh yes I agree there will be a sharp learning curb.

Curve. ;)

any real Self that you're born with in America is practically destroyed by the time you're 18. most people coming out of formal education systems are so deluded they'll be lucky if they ever turn a profit for the time they invest. public education exists to create a majority that is dependent upon the upper classes and the government.

if you want self sufficient adults, tear down your socialist democratic republic and start treating people like human beings instead of dogs (not YOU, per se, but the editorial "you").

not so self sufficient 18 years olds are not a problem, they're a symptom of a disease: fascism.

That's your own fault, then. At eighteen, you are eligible to enlist in the military.

And not stupid enough to do so.

You can pursue full-time employment at one or more jobs that only require a high school diploma.

And make next to nothing, face significantly higher than average unemployment rates, and be unable to even afford a bad apartment.

I'd say all the opportunity you need is right outside that front door.

And I'd say that you're a hypocrite with a college degree who doesn't know what he's talking about. Isn't that nice?

Well...

One can dismiss this as immaturity. But look a bit deeper.

Right out of college or right out of high-school (not intending to seek higher education right now)... it seems logical that some children would prefer to stay home a bit longer after they "graduate" to adulthood (by virtue of their age) so they can...aclimate. They have no real, stable job, no real income, and just need a place to stay.

And what if they're financially unable to "move out"? Wouldn't it be the decent thing to do to allow the child to stay at their parents home for a while?

I read somewhere, and correct me if I'm wrong please, that in countries like Italy it is fairly common to see kids stay home after reaching "adulthood", so they can have a safe harbor as they branch out into the world. I don't know why it isn't more so in the US.

BUT MORE TO THE POINT!

In my opinion...as strange as this sounds...Pico here was raised by the foster care system; they are his parents. He's not ready? Then you should not thrust him into the world. Any good biological parent should do the same. So long as the child is making an effort to branch out -finding a job, a good home- I don't see why not.

This is a taxpayer system though, so there should be a reasonable cut-off age for support for foster care.

...Am I making any sense? :p


Yes you are making sense, and in the main I agree with you.

There is though a very fine line to tread for both the child and the parent. Consider the old 'while your under my roof, you'll live by my rules'

If you look at this from the side of the young adult, it seems almost dracionian, but from the side of the parent it is a form of tough love. There to get their charge used to the rigours of not being in total control of their own lifes(work, rentpayments etc...) and to gently push them to start experiancing life on their own.

Ultimatly, experiace is what teaches, and the sooner young adults are away from the home, and doing it for themselves the quicker they become more able, and indeed more adult.

Curve. ;)

I thank you!

Curve. ;)

Curbs are sharper. :p

It seems unfair to exclude (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070813/ap_on_re_us/foster_care_age_limits) foster kids from this bonanza that many young adult children experience. Just think, the lucky kids with parents can stay at home, not pay rent, have someone else do their cleaning...But foster kids lose their financial support from the government at the instant they turn 18. After all, as Mr. Anthony Pico puts it, "“I’m an adult, but I don’t want to move out. I don’t want to start paying rent."

Why should we make him?

Because he is an adult and we expect adults to be self-sufficient.

Aren't people usually still in high school when they turn 18? I know I turn 18 next January and I'll be a senior then, and my brothers who are 14 now will turn 18 in September of their senior year.

I don't see what the big deal on moving out is, yeah it was nice to be under the protection of my parents but it was not a necessary comfort.

When I turned 18 not only was I paying for my own housing, but also full weight of my college and helping pay for the family farm and vehicle. Sure its tough but I did it for 6 years before finishing up.

But it took more then the average 18 year old (from what I have seen) can do. those six years I had to work 2-3 Jobs usually over 60 hours a week at least to make ends meet. I have never been without at least one job sense the month after I turned 16, not even for one day.

Either way it can be done you can be self sufficient if you need to and even work for more then just "surviving". Too bad so many don't try.

Aren't people usually still in high school when they turn 18? I know I turn 18 next January and I'll be a senior then, and my brothers who are 14 now will turn 18 in September of their senior year.

Depends I was 18 for 3 months before I graduated, my brother was 19 when he graduated. And my Third brother was 17 when he graduated ...

Yes you are making sense, and in the main I agree with you.

There is though a very fine line to tread for both the child and the parent. Consider the old 'while your under my roof, you'll live by my rules'

If you look at this from the side of the young adult, it seems almost dracionian, but from the side of the parent it is a form of tough love. There to get their charge used to the rigours of not being in total control of their own lifes(work, rentpayments etc...) and to gently push them to start experiancing life on their own.

Ultimatly, experiace is what teaches, and the sooner young adults are away from the home, and doing it for themselves the quicker they become more able, and indeed more adult.

Unless you own your own house right out of college or high-school, you're gonna get rules everywhere you go...and at least back home you can keep your pet ferret "Cthulhu", unlike at that apartment complex run by that tired old prick with the hairy mole who hates animals.

But I agree with you. Experience is the way to go. But there's no point to experience if you only wind up on the streets within a week of your "adulthood": hence the safe harbor.

Plus, psychologically, I imagine it would feel much better to know no matter how much you screw up you'll have a home and a loving family to go home to until you finally get it right.

Aren't people usually still in high school when they turn 18? I know I turn 18 next January and I'll be a senior then, and my brothers who are 14 now will turn 18 in September of their senior year.

Heh shit no. My birthday is in August so I left school after my schooling was finished in 1984 at the age of 15. I left on Friday, I walked right into my first job on Monday, and this was right smack bang in the middle of Thatchers Britain, unemployment was massively high.

Mind you having said that, next years new secondary school starters now don't get to leave until 18.

I don't see what the big deal on moving out is, yeah it was nice to be under the protection of my parents but it was not a necessary comfort.

When I turned 18 not only was I paying for my own housing, but also full weight of my college and helping pay for the family farm and vehicle. Sure its tough but I did it for 6 years before finishing up.

But it took more then the average 18 year old (from what I have seen) can do. those six years I had to work 2-3 Jobs usually over 60 hours a week at least to make ends meet. I have never been without at least one job sense the month after I turned 16, not even for one day.

Either way it can be done you can be self sufficient if you need to and even work for more then just "surviving". Too bad so many don't try.
That's where I grew up, too, the family farm. I think that makes one more likely to accept the responsibility of adulthood than a city or suburban bred youth.

And I remember the first year at the Ohio State extension campus, too. I managed to fit 18 quarter hours in between my full-time job and my farm chores. I figure working at the farm was the equivalent to working another full-time job.

I saved almost $2000 that first year in college, after paying tuition bills and making payments on the car I had to buy.

Main Entry: fas·cism
Pronunciation: 'fa-"shi-z&m also 'fa-"si-
Function: noun
Etymology: Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces
1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control <early instances of army fascism and brutality -- J. W. Aldridge>

Depends I was 18 for 3 months before I graduated, my brother was 19 when he graduated. And my Third brother was 17 when he graduated ...

Ok. Yeah, I guess it depends... I'm trying to get a job at the moment but haven't found one yet, but there's a new supermarket opening up between my house and my school so I might be able to work there, and I've started earning some money by tutoring people. My parents wouldn't let me get my driver's license until this summer though so that would have made it harder to have a job before then. But I'm planning on living on campus when I go to college in fall of 2008, though, and I'm hopefully going to have a lot of scholarships, too.

Y'all got a point to serve up with that definition?

Main Entry: fas·cism
Pronunciation: 'fa-"shi-z&m also 'fa-"si-
Function: noun
Etymology: Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces
1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control <early instances of army fascism and brutality -- J. W. Aldridge>

*waves hands wildly*

What does the definition of Fascism have to do with anything?!

*pounds fist onto podium*

it's a word that is used to describe a mode of indoctrination commonly used by governments and patriarchs. as far as any points stemming from the fact that the word exists, well, there are many points; so many you could write a thousand page book about it. sooooo....i suggest you start thinking about it on your own, because i'm not gonna be your teacher. i assume you have a brain and the ability to formulate logical thoughts, so, giddyup kids.

Ok. Yeah, I guess it depends... I'm trying to get a job at the moment but haven't found one yet, but there's a new supermarket opening up between my house and my school so I might be able to work there, and I've started earning some money by tutoring people. My parents wouldn't let me get my driver's license until this summer though so that would have made it harder to have a job before then. But I'm planning on living on campus when I go to college in fall of 2008, though, and I'm hopefully going to have a lot of scholarships, too.

My recommendation is to find on campus work especially in the area you are going into. They are ultra flexible with class hours and often can be a massively cool support group of like minded students of varying ages and experience.

Best thing I ever did

As for the drivers license it sucks I know and does make things harder ... I got it early as I can (and my parents supported me) as we lived in the middle of no where ... a 15 mile bike to town was not an option for a daily commute

What I also did was get my first job at the same place my mom worked at so that I could get a ride for the first few months of employment before I got my own license and vehicle

That's where I grew up, too, the family farm. I think that makes one more likely to accept the responsibility of adulthood than a city or suburban bred youth.

And I remember the first year at the Ohio State extension campus, too. I managed to fit 18 quarter hours in between my full-time job and my farm chores. I figure working at the farm was the equivalent to working another full-time job.

I saved almost $2000 that first year in college, after paying tuition bills and making payments on the car I had to buy.

Very similar situation from the sound of it (I worked two jobs on top of chores but yes very similar) and payed for every last cent in full, no loans no grants no scholarships I ended up with 2 BS's and 2 MA's

That's where I grew up, too, the family farm. I think that makes one more likely to accept the responsibility of adulthood than a city or suburban bred youth.

And I remember the first year at the Ohio State extension campus, too. I managed to fit 18 quarter hours in between my full-time job and my farm chores. I figure working at the farm was the equivalent to working another full-time job.

I saved almost $2000 that first year in college, after paying tuition bills and making payments on the car I had to buy.

I grew up in a house full of childlike adults, I saw what their irresponsibility and dependence got them.......

I moved out when I was 15, best/worst idea I ever had. Sure I ended up homeless for a while, but I am a much more responsible adult now than most others in my age group. Working without a net makes you a bit more concerned with the long term consequences of your decisions.

it's a word that is used to describe a mode of indoctrination commonly used by governments and patriarchs. as far as any points stemming from the fact that the word exists, well, there are many points; so many you could write a thousand page book about it. sooooo....i suggest you start thinking about it on your own, because i'm not gonna be your teacher. i assume you have a brain and the ability to formulate logical thoughts, so, giddyup kids.

What. . .

The. . .

Fuck. . .



Seriously, you need to explain what the fuck you're saying. Just yelling fascism gets you nowhere. Are you accusing the foster system of fascism?

Explain yourself man.

i don't need to explain myself.

YOU need to be reasonable (if you're capable of doing so)

just because the word fascism has negative connotations, you don't need to redirect your negative emotions onto me and my posting of the word; perhaps, you feel a little scared that YOU might be a fascist?

to reiterate, i don't need to explain myself,

YOU need to think. Me telling you what to think will get me (nor you) nowhere.

LOL. Funniest thing-me posting the word "fascism" will accomplish exactly what I want it to accomplish, and you're helping me out.

toodles!

it's a word that is used to describe a mode of indoctrination commonly used by governments and patriarchs. as far as any points stemming from the fact that the word exists, well, there are many points; so many you could write a thousand page book about it. sooooo....i suggest you start thinking about it on your own, because i'm not gonna be your teacher. i assume you have a brain and the ability to formulate logical thoughts, so, giddyup kids.

Okay then...how did your parents raise you? And, if applicable, how do you raise your kids?
















...And don't patronize me...

i don't need to explain myself.

YOU need to be reasonable (if you're capable of doing so)

just because the word fascism has negative connotations, you don't need to redirect your negative emotions onto me and my posting of the word; perhaps, you feel a little scared that YOU might be a fascist?

to reiterate, i don't need to explain myself,

YOU need to think. Me telling you what to think will get me (nor you) nowhere.

LOL. Funniest thing-me posting the word "fascism" will accomplish exactly what I want it to accomplish, and you're helping me out.

toodles!

Wow. I guess I'm a fascists then.

I don't see what the big deal on moving out is, yeah it was nice to be under the protection of my parents but it was not a necessary comfort.

When I turned 18 not only was I paying for my own housing, but also full weight of my college and helping pay for the family farm and vehicle. Sure its tough but I did it for 6 years before finishing up.

But it took more then the average 18 year old (from what I have seen) can do. those six years I had to work 2-3 Jobs usually over 60 hours a week at least to make ends meet. I have never been without at least one job sense the month after I turned 16, not even for one day.

Either way it can be done you can be self sufficient if you need to and even work for more then just "surviving". Too bad so many don't try.

And how many years ago was that? I'd assume so many that you've lost touch with the price of college, and the price of living. Even earning higher than minimum wage as is standard at my place of employment (8/hr), to pay for a year of college, I'd have to work 108 hours a week, every week, which leaves 60 hours to do homework, go to class, and sleep.

Now, to be fair, I'm going to a good school that charges an arm and a leg, and for friends attending schools that aren't as expensive, it would only be 54 hours + 50 hours of schoolwork, but to accuse them of failing to be self sufficient adults because they can neither deal with the financial or personal strains of trying to attend school and holding a more than full time job is assanine. The self-righteous desire to bitch and moan about how kids just get it so easy these days is just obnoxious.

i don't need to explain myself.

YOU need to be reasonable (if you're capable of doing so)

just because the word fascism has negative connotations, you don't need to redirect your negative emotions onto me and my posting of the word; perhaps, you feel a little scared that YOU might be a fascist?

to reiterate, i don't need to explain myself,

YOU need to think. Me telling you what to think will get me (nor you) nowhere.

LOL. Funniest thing-me posting the word "fascism" will accomplish exactly what I want it to accomplish, and you're helping me out.

toodles!

WHAT?!

YOU don't need to explain yourself?!

*rabble rabble*

The arrogance! You made a statement. You need to explain your position.













Who's puppet are you?

it's a word that is used to describe a mode of indoctrination commonly used by governments and patriarchs. as far as any points stemming from the fact that the word exists, well, there are many points; so many you could write a thousand page book about it. sooooo....i suggest you start thinking about it on your own, because i'm not gonna be your teacher. i assume you have a brain and the ability to formulate logical thoughts, so, giddyup kids.
Yes. We all know what the word means. Now, why did you bring it up in this discussion? It isn't being a teacher, it's actually MAKING A POINT. Welcome to discussion.

What you've done is no different than me doing this:
an·ar·chy [an-er-kee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a state of society without government or law.
2. political and social disorder due to the absence of governmental control: The death of the king was followed by a year of anarchy.
3. a theory that regards the absence of all direct or coercive government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of organized society.
4. confusion; chaos; disorder: Intellectual and moral anarchy followed his loss of faith.
and giving no further commentary. Anyone can copy and paste...now tell us what your point is.

That's where I grew up, too, the family farm. I think that makes one more likely to accept the responsibility of adulthood than a city or suburban bred youth.

I think that's bullshit.

i don't need to explain myself.

YOU need to be reasonable (if you're capable of doing so)

just because the word fascism has negative connotations, you don't need to redirect your negative emotions onto me and my posting of the word; perhaps, you feel a little scared that YOU might be a fascist?

to reiterate, i don't need to explain myself,

YOU need to think. Me telling you what to think will get me (nor you) nowhere.

LOL. Funniest thing-me posting the word "fascism" will accomplish exactly what I want it to accomplish, and you're helping me out.

toodles!

Helping you out by not understanding what appears to be an un-supported and pointless outburst and then continuing to be obtuse and obscure when asked to clarify your point.

Not a bright one are you?

And how many years ago was that? I'd assume so many that you've lost touch with the price of college, and the price of living. Even earning higher than minimum wage as is standard at my place of employment (8/hr), to pay for a year of college, I'd have to work 108 hours a week, every week, which leaves 60 hours to do homework, go to class, and sleep.

Now, to be fair, I'm going to a good school that charges an arm and a leg, and for friends attending schools that aren't as expensive, it would only be 54 hours + 50 hours of schoolwork, but to accuse them of failing to be self sufficient adults because they can neither deal with the financial or personal strains of trying to attend school and holding a more than full time job is assanine. The self-righteous desire to bitch and moan about how kids just get it so easy these days is just obnoxious.
I got done with my last masters 3 months ago I was taking a full class load every semester without a break sense I was 18 before that and my under post-grad credits are more expensive then under grad credits here

What. . .

The. . .

Fuck. . .



Seriously, you need to explain what the fuck you're saying. Just yelling fascism gets you nowhere. Are you accusing the foster system of fascism?

Explain yourself man.

Don't tell me what to do you... you ... fascist!:D

My recommendation is to find on campus work especially in the area you are going into. They are ultra flexible with class hours and often can be a massively cool support group of like minded students of varying ages and experience.

Best thing I ever did

As for the drivers license it sucks I know and does make things harder ... I got it early as I can (and my parents supported me) as we lived in the middle of no where ... a 15 mile bike to town was not an option for a daily commute

What I also did was get my first job at the same place my mom worked at so that I could get a ride for the first few months of employment before I got my own license and vehicle

Yeah, I'll probably try to find something like that when I'm at university, but I think I should probably get a part-time job while I'm in high school.

I unfortunately never learned how to bike without training wheels and the new supermarket that's coming up is probably within walking distance (I know that the school is like 1.5 miles away, and the store is closer than that), but unfortunately that would mean crossing a dangerous intersection that for a while had no crosswalks. I wouldn't feel safe walking across that. Plus my parents are letting me use the '97 Camry for this year since my mom just got a new car and I'm going to drive my brothers and myself to and from school every day.

Oh, unfortunately I don't think that would be an option for me. My mom is a teacher and my dad works at like child support enforcement or something, and I'm pretty sure both places require college degrees to work there, or at least being an adult.

i don't need to explain myself.

YOU need to be reasonable (if you're capable of doing so)

just because the word fascism has negative connotations, you don't need to redirect your negative emotions onto me and my posting of the word; perhaps, you feel a little scared that YOU might be a fascist?

to reiterate, i don't need to explain myself,

YOU need to think. Me telling you what to think will get me (nor you) nowhere.

LOL. Funniest thing-me posting the word "fascism" will accomplish exactly what I want it to accomplish, and you're helping me out.

toodles!

This has nothing to do with the reaction to the word. It has to do with the fact that you posted a seemingly random definition, and then refuse to state WHY you posted that particular word.

you DO need to explain yourself.

Unless, of course, you just picked a random thread to see what the reaction would be, in which case, you are trolling, which is against our rules.

What. . .

The. . .

Fuck. . .



Seriously, you need to explain what the fuck you're saying. Just yelling fascism gets you nowhere. Are you accusing the foster system of fascism?

Explain yourself man.

Okay then...how did your parents raise you? And, if applicable, how do you raise your kids?
















...And don't patronize me...



first...i'm not patronizing you, just because you feel small when you read my words is not evidence of the fact that I'm "condescending."

LOL

Main Entry: con·de·scend
Pronunciation: "kän-di-'send
Function: intransitive verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French condescendre, from Late Latin condescendere, from Latin com- + descendere to descend
1 a : to descend to a less formal or dignified level : UNBEND b : to waive the privileges of rank
2 : to assume an air of superiority


If, during these discourse, you are brought to a less dignified level, it is through your own choices, not mine. if you perceive me as "assuming an air of superiority," it is only because you thought that no person could ever rise above you, not because I actually assume superiority.

though, since you are coming to me seeking answers, the evidence presents itself, and makes clear the facts of the case.

as far as my childhood,

I was pretty much allowed to do whatever i wanted without fear of punishment. my mother talked to me and reasoned with me, which, i guess is why i turned out to be more intelligent and reasonable than 99% of the population.

be a fascist, create a fascist.

be a leader, create a leader.

pretty simple really, it's the middle section of the bell curve that makes things more difficult than they need to be. sorry if you feel small, but the shortest, most effective piece of advice i can give ANYONE:

read

think




peace!

snip (answered in a previous post)
Now, to be fair, I'm going to a good school that charges an arm and a leg, and for friends attending schools that aren't as expensive, it would only be 54 hours + 50 hours of schoolwork, but to accuse them of failing to be self sufficient adults because they can neither deal with the financial or personal strains of trying to attend school and holding a more than full time job is assanine. The self-righteous desire to bitch and moan about how kids just get it so easy these days is just obnoxious.

AS for the second part I chose a college that was not as expensive as a lot precisely for 2 reasons 1) it was in the area and allowed me to continue to work on the farm and 2) actually had my degree that I wanted unlike anywhere else in the state.

I was not "Bitching" about how easy kids have it these days I was merely showing that it CAN be done

BOTH my brothers are also in colleges (one much more expensive then mine) and both of them did the exact same thing and they are both current under grads one is a sophomore and one is a junior in college

I unfortunately never learned how to bike without training wheels

I'm not the only one! I thought I was the only kid who couldn't ride a bike!

The self-righteous desire to bitch and moan about how kids just get it so easy these days is just obnoxious.

*nods*

I get that all the time.

Circumstances...circumstances...circumstances...Walk a day in the man's shoes before you judge him.

Yeah, I'll probably try to find something like that when I'm at university, but I think I should probably get a part-time job while I'm in high school.

I unfortunately never learned how to bike without training wheels and the new supermarket that's coming up is probably within walking distance (I know that the school is like 1.5 miles away, and the store is closer than that), but unfortunately that would mean crossing a dangerous intersection that for a while had no crosswalks. I wouldn't feel safe walking across that. Plus my parents are letting me use the '97 Camry for this year since my mom just got a new car and I'm going to drive my brothers and myself to and from school every day.

Oh, unfortunately I don't think that would be an option for me. My mom is a teacher and my dad works at like child support enforcement or something, and I'm pretty sure both places require college degrees to work there, or at least being an adult.

Ahh my mom worked in the health care field (still does)

Here is PART of my point:

Only a fascist would react so strongly to the sight of the word "Fascist."

Pronunciation: "kän-di-'send
Function: intransitive verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French condescendre, from Late Latin condescendere, from Latin com- + descendere to descend
1 a : to descend to a less formal or dignified level : UNBEND b : to waive the privileges of rank
2 : to assume an air of superiority

I was pretty much allowed to do whatever i wanted without fear of punishment. my mother talked to me and reasoned with me, which, i guess is why i turned out to be more intelligent and reasonable than 99% of the population.

And THAT is finding a flaw in your argument.

I! SAID! GOOD! DAY!

Here is PART of my point:

Only a fascist would react so strongly to the sight of the word "Fascist."

Thats an un-supported assumption

And THAT is finding a flaw in your argument.

I! SAID! GOOD! DAY!



no sweetheart...you miss the point...i'm not assuming anything

me being more intelligent and reasonable than 99% of the population is not an assumption, it's fact. sorry you don't like facts, most people don't.

I think that's bullshit.

Yes, I'd personally like to know how that works? How does "growing up on a farm" make one more...prepared for life as an adult?

What does "a life on the farm" entail?

no sweetheart...you miss the point...i'm not assuming anything

me being more intelligent and reasonable than 99% of the population is not an assumption, it's fact. sorry you don't like facts, most people don't.

Lol you so far have failed to show any of this intelligence.

Here is PART of my point:

Only a fascist would react so strongly to the sight of the word "Fascist."

a) so where is the rest of your point?
b) What does that have to do with the topic at hand? We're discussiong entitlement and children who, after the age of 18, live at home. What does the word and definition of the word "Fascist" have to do with this?

Seriously, do you think we're reacting poorly to the word? Or, do you think maybe, just MAYBE, the negative reaction is more about you refusing to state, in explicit terms, what your actual argument is?

I'd suggest you read everyone elses posts. Notice, each person has a point, and makes it clearly. When it is not clear, other posters ask for clarification.

Or go on being a stubborn ass. Either way.

no sweetheart...you miss the point...i'm not assuming anything

me being more intelligent and reasonable than 99% of the population is not an assumption, it's fact. sorry you don't like facts, most people don't.

Look up the definition of hubris, please.

...And don't call me sweetheart.

Thats an un-supported assumption

"God exists"

THAT is an unsupported assumption.


The only person that would react with negative emotions to ANY word is fascist.

The essence of fascism is arbitrary, dictatorial authority. One way or the other, we all fit the bill to some degree.

Yes, I'd personally like to know how that works? How does "growing up on a farm" make one more...prepared for life as an adult?

What does "a life on the farm" entail?

I don't get it either. I grew up in the suburbs, and have very little feeling of entitlement. It comes down to parenting style more than location of a house.

Lol you so far have failed to show any of this intelligence.

says the fascist complaining about unsupported assumptions while making them himself.

hypocrisy usually comes with being fascist, though, so i'm not shocked.

"God exists"

THAT is an unsupported assumption.


The only person that would react with negative emotions to ANY word is fascist.

The essence of fascism is arbitrary, dictatorial authority. One way or the other, we all fit the bill to some degree.

They both are un supported assumptions. Unless you care to support them, though you probably will not be able to, at best it will be entertaining.

We do? News to me, given all of the things we do to emasculate people of their self-sufficiency, as a culture. I dunno about you, but I won't be any more self-sufficient in one week than I am today, and I'll be 18 then. Seems to me if we're going to be creating faux-self sufficiency based on an arbitrary line, we should wait for a point where faux-self sufficiency can, at least, be justified.
Second.

says the fascist complaining about unsupported assumptions while making them himself.

hypocrisy usually comes with being fascist, though, so i'm not shocked.

What makes me "fascist" other then your idiotic assumption that our reaction has anything to do with our view on the subject?

Ahh my mom worked in the health care field (still does)

Ok. :)

I think Publix will be a decent place to work starting out. I don't need to work too much, so I'll probably just try to work weekends and Wednesdays and Fridays after school. I know I'll have a lot of homework since I'm taking seven college-level classes at high school this year, and I intend to keep volunteering as a tutor on Tuesdays and Thursdays afterschool and doing A-team on Mondays, as well as being the secretary of the National Honor Society and the Latin club at my school.

"God exists"

THAT is an unsupported assumption.yes...and?


The only person that would react with negative emotions to ANY word is fascist.
This is allso an unsupported statement. Where is your support? I see no links, studies, proof of any kind. You only have an assertion.
The essence of fascism is arbitrary, dictatorial authority. One way or the other, we all fit the bill to some degree.
And again, what does this have to do with the topic at hand?

"God exists"

THAT is an unsupported assumption.


The only person that would react with negative emotions to ANY word is fascist.

The essence of fascism is arbitrary, dictatorial authority. One way or the other, we all fit the bill to some degree.

Perhaps you should have created a separate thread with a thesis on fascism? You could have made a point, we could have argued it, as good debaters do...and you wouldn't have had to hijack a perfectly good thread.

...

You could also explain, with facts, why you are more intelligent than 99% of the population...

"God exists"

THAT is an unsupported assumption.


The only person that would react with negative emotions to ANY word is fascist.

The essence of fascism is arbitrary, dictatorial authority. One way or the other, we all fit the bill to some degree.

What . . . the . . . fuck . . . does . . . that . . . have . . . to . . . do . . . with . . . anything . . . we're . . . discussing. . . in . . . this . . . thread; . . . specifically. . . . Adult . . . children . . . that . . . stay . . . home?

I figured your superior intellect would be too busy thinking of a better argument so I slowed it down for you.

first...i'm not patronizing you, just because you feel small when you read my words is not evidence of the fact that I'm "condescending."

LOL

Main Entry: con·de·scend
Pronunciation: "kän-di-'send
Function: intransitive verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French condescendre, from Late Latin condescendere, from Latin com- + descendere to descend
1 a : to descend to a less formal or dignified level : UNBEND b : to waive the privileges of rank
2 : to assume an air of superiority


If, during these discourse, you are brought to a less dignified level, it is through your own choices, not mine. if you perceive me as "assuming an air of superiority," it is only because you thought that no person could ever rise above you, not because I actually assume superiority.

though, since you are coming to me seeking answers, the evidence presents itself, and makes clear the facts of the case.

as far as my childhood,

I was pretty much allowed to do whatever i wanted without fear of punishment. my mother talked to me and reasoned with me, which, i guess is why i turned out to be more intelligent and reasonable than 99% of the population.

be a fascist, create a fascist.

be a leader, create a leader.

pretty simple really, it's the middle section of the bell curve that makes things more difficult than they need to be. sorry if you feel small, but the shortest, most effective piece of advice i can give ANYONE:

read

think




peace!

Heheh you're funny, pratish and condesending but funny!

Look up the definition of hubris, please.

...And don't call me sweetheart.


LMAO...how dense can you possibly be?

the word "HUBRIS" only applies IF YOU THINK it's exaggerated.

I have documents and a whole science to back up my claims of intelligence.

What do YOU have to back up your claims of hubris? you have your own feeble, unjustified opinion backed up only by your emotions and well exhibited ignorance.

They both are un supported assumptions. Unless you care to support them, though you probably will not be able to, at best it will be entertaining.

Actually, one can be argued to merely be a matter of faith. The other is just a delusion.

...Or is God the delusion and this guy's intelligence the faith?

...I dunno. :p

All I know is that I believe in God, and I STILL think I'm more reasonable than this guy!

Yes, I'd personally like to know how that works? How does "growing up on a farm" make one more...prepared for life as an adult?

What does "a life on the farm" entail?

umm lots of milking?

I have documents and a whole science to back up my claims of intelligence.

Great. Show me.

PS: And use less of the internet lingo. It certainly doesn't make you look smart when you say "LOL" every other sentence.

I don't get it either. I grew up in the suburbs, and have very little feeling of entitlement. It comes down to parenting style more than location of a house.

Farming entails a lot more day to day responsibility than just living in your suburban house. Not all kids who grow up in the suburbs or urban areas have a sense of entitlement but it might be more common. When you live on a farm the whole family works, when you live in the city, usually just the parents do.

Perhaps you should have created a separate thread with a thesis on fascism? You could have made a point, we could have argued it, as good debaters do...and you wouldn't have had to hijack a perfectly good thread.

...

You could also explain, with facts, why you are more intelligent than 99% of the population...



There you go creating false realities to justify your unjustifiable irrationalities.

I DID NOT HIJACK THE THREAD.

I MADE A CONTRIBUTION AND THE EMOTIONAL CHILDREN DECIDED TO GET IN A TIZZY OVER A WORD.

This thread was hijacked by a bunch over overzealous fascists either too frightened or lazy to examine reality.

Your lack of comfort around ambiguity is not my problem, it's yours.

umm lots of milking?

I know that but milking what?

That is the question!

Does squeezing fluid from the mammaries of a large bovine somehow make you more prepared in today's largely service-sector world?

It might...

There you go creating false realities to justify your unjustifiable irrationalities.

I DID NOT HIJACK THE THREAD.

I MADE A CONTRIBUTION AND THE EMOTIONAL CHILDREN DECIDED TO GET IN A TIZZY OVER A WORD.

This thread was hijacked by a bunch over overzealous fascists either too frightened or lazy to examine reality.

Your lack of comfort around ambiguity is not my problem, it's yours.

Stupidity has reached critical mass.

Actually, one can be argued to merely be a matter of faith. The other is just a delusion.

...Or is God the delusion and this guy's intelligence the faith?

...I dunno. :p

All I know is that I believe in God, and I STILL think I'm more reasonable than this guy!

People who believe in god, BY DEFINITION, BELIEVE they are better than those who don't.

Anyone who believes in god has a highly biased picture of reality and cannot be counted on to provide ANY OBJECTIVE VALUE TO ANY ARGUMENT REGARDING REALITY.

LMAO...how dense can you possibly be?

the word "HUBRIS" only applies IF YOU THINK it's exaggerated.

I have documents and a whole science to back up my claims of intelligence.

What do YOU have to back up your claims of hubris? you have your own feeble, unjustified opinion backed up only by your emotions and well exhibited ignorance.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hubris

Stupidity has reached critical mass.



You mean

"Stupidity has reached the masses."

Stupidity has reached critical mass.

http://www.roflcat.com/images/cats/270907182_ef25ba42de.jpg

There you go creating false realities to justify your unjustifiable irrationalities.

I DID NOT HIJACK THE THREAD.

I MADE A CONTRIBUTION AND THE EMOTIONAL CHILDREN DECIDED TO GET IN A TIZZY OVER A WORD.

This thread was hijacked by a bunch over overzealous fascists either too frightened or lazy to examine reality.

Your lack of comfort around ambiguity is not my problem, it's yours.

Umm for all of your intelegence you either can't read or can't remeber.

You come in with your first post which was a defintion of the word fascit. You where asked what that has to do with the topic, you started your condesending bollox.

Go back, re-read, come back and grovvel before us like the dog that you must be!:eek:

And I'd say that you're a hypocrite with a college degree who doesn't know what he's talking about. Isn't that nice?

I left home at 17 without a college degree. Didn't get any help from my parents after that.

I did just fine, and I do know what I'm talking about.

Maybe you just want success handed to you.

http://www.roflcat.com/images/cats/270907182_ef25ba42de.jpg

Yay! Image macro!

Farming entails a lot more day to day responsibility than just living in your suburban house. Not all kids who grow up in the suburbs or urban areas have a sense of entitlement but it might be more common. When you live on a farm the whole family works, when you live in the city, usually just the parents do.

I assumed as much.

But I wonder, how many farms are left that actually utilize family work? The world is changing. Will a life on the farm prepare you for TODAY'S world?

Is there anyone here who grew up on a farm and is now in "the real world", within the past 10-20 years who can answer my question?

I know that but milking what?

That is the question!

Does squeezing fluid from the mammaries of a large bovine somehow make you more prepared in today's largely service-sector world?

It might...

It might. I was talking to my oldest the other day about milking mushrooms. I told him that he should be the one to do it, rather than me, as he has smaller fingers and mushroom teats are really very tiny!

People who believe in god, BY DEFINITION, BELIEVE they are better than those who don't.

Anyone who believes in god has a highly biased picture of reality and cannot be counted on to provide ANY OBJECTIVE VALUE TO ANY ARGUMENT REGARDING REALITY.

False! I belive in God and yet do not feel superior to anybody.
False again, I belive in God, and yet am a feind for science.

I left home at 17 without a college degree. Didn't get any help from my parents after that.

I did just fine, and I do know what I'm talking about.

Maybe you just want success handed to you.
Of course the point you are making loses 99% credibility coming from you.

Farming entails a lot more day to day responsibility than just living in your suburban house. Not all kids who grow up in the suburbs or urban areas have a sense of entitlement but it might be more common. When you live on a farm the whole family works, when you live in the city, usually just the parents do.
Yeah, if you look at only a specific kind of work, you're right. But city children can, and often do, still have chores to do around the house. No, it isn't going to be going out and milking the cows at 5 AM, but there are chores to be done, and things to help the family with.
Again, I say it comes down to parenting style over location. I grew up in a suburb, and worked for my money. Yes, it is anecdotal evidence, and I have no idea what the actual trends are (I wonder if there have been any studies?), but none the less.

I mean, I could claim that being from New England makes you have less of an entitlement complex and a better work ethic because we still have the puritain concept of "Idle hands are the devils play thing"...

There you go creating false realities to justify your unjustifiable irrationalities.

I DID NOT HIJACK THE THREAD.

I MADE A CONTRIBUTION AND THE EMOTIONAL CHILDREN DECIDED TO GET IN A TIZZY OVER A WORD.

This thread was hijacked by a bunch over overzealous fascists either too frightened or lazy to examine reality.

Your lack of comfort around ambiguity is not my problem, it's yours.

You did hijack. You posted something without ever drawing a connection to the discussion at hand.

Person 1:"why is the sky blue?"
Person 2:"Well, because oxygen reflects blue light"
Person 1:"But there isn't much oxygen when compared to other chemicals"
Person 2:"There is a signifigant amount tho"
You: "Chicken"
Everyone else: "What. the. fuck."


Either state your argument and point, or stop talking.

Farming entails a lot more day to day responsibility than just living in your suburban house. Not all kids who grow up in the suburbs or urban areas have a sense of entitlement but it might be more common. When you live on a farm the whole family works, when you live in the city, usually just the parents do.

I am sick to death of the glorification of farming. It doesn't teach you jack shit that can't be taught with chores and the responsibility of succeding in school.

I'm also dead tired of this "entitlement" nonsense. There is nothing "entitled" about living with your parents when you simply cannot afford to move out. There is nothing "entitled" about trying to actually get to go to college. Claims to the contrary are bellyaching and self-glorification.

"Why, back in my day, we had to work three jobs, while walking uphill both ways, three miles in the snow, just to get to go to college!" :p

I left home at 17 without a college degree. Didn't get any help from my parents after that.

I did just fine, and I do know what I'm talking about.

Maybe you just want success handed to you.

No you don't. You just know how to build yourself up to seem important and pass along some sort of psuedo-moral to the story of your invented life, so that you can feel like you matter.

And of course I'd like success handed to me, it would make the world significantly easier. However, like most people, I have to do this thing called work. Or does graduating college immediately help you keep and retain a good paying job? Does going to college guarantee graduation? Does having a job mean being successful?

It seems you are confusing a chance to have some level of economic success with actual real and substantive success. Being able to buy a house and keep food in your stomach isn't success, it's just a good intermediate goal between that and actually doing something meaningful.

Umm for all of your intelegence you either can't read or can't remeber.

You come in with your first post which was a defintion of the word fascit. You where asked what that has to do with the topic, you started your condesending bollox.

Go back, re-read, come back and grovvel before us like the dog that you must be!:eek:


no bollox there. i told someone to figure it out for themselves. i did so because a lesson learned alone is worth its weight in gold, a lesson learned through rote creates a mindless drone.

so

figure it out yourself.

PART of my point:

Many have exhibited their fascist tendencies in response to my postings.

LOL (oh no, my IQ dropped 3 points because i used internet slang, LMMFAO)

ANOTHER point:

IF people weren't such fascist pigs,

THEN we would have to worry about the question to begin with.

But, people do tend to be fascist pigs. They refuse to consider the innumerable variables that go into creating a human being. They make false assumptions in order to navigate life. Most people practically rely on stereotypes to make decisions regarding other people's lives, AS OPPOSED TO USING A MORE INQUISITIVE AND OBJECTIVE MODE OF DECISION MAKING.


A wise, old chinaman once said,

"Man who leap off cliff jump to conclusion."

Of course the point you are making loses 99% credibility coming from you.

Oh great. Another TPH/RO thread.

Could you two, just for once, leave eachother alone?

I mean, I could claim that being from New England makes you have less of an entitlement complex and a better work ethic because we still have the puritain concept of "Idle hands are the devils play thing"...

Yeesh!

I want to get as far away from my puritan ancestry as possible!

Good work ethic is important. But I like to just lay around the house sometimes. Everyone needs to put their feet up every so often.

Yay! Image macro!



I assumed as much.

But I wonder, how many farms are left that actually utilize family work? The world is changing. Will a life on the farm prepare you for TODAY'S world?

Is there anyone here who grew up on a farm and is now in "the real world", within the past 10-20 years who can answer my question?

Well you can take my opinion I grew up on a farm and now am in the "real world" of IT Work and for a bit there education.
(I had to stop the farm stuff a year or so ago as I reached critical mass on time ... made it through my undergrad though)

As far as it goes the area I am in is still family heavy lots of small (200ish acer) farms and has not been taken over by bigger industries.

As far as it goes I do not necessarily think it prepps you more for the "real world" I think good parenting style does that more then anything, it just happens to have a correlation between the two at least in our area. At least for the working world ... some of the other parenting "techniques" utilized by a lot of the farmers up here (up to and including my parents) were NOT so beneficial ... they are overly harsh and contain a lot of bad messages I think.

(sorry if this sounds muddled lol it is such a vague topic and I am not being clear as I can be)

Yeah, if you look at only a specific kind of work, you're right. But city children can, and often do, still have chores to do around the house. No, it isn't going to be going out and milking the cows at 5 AM, but there are chores to be done, and things to help the family with.
Again, I say it comes down to parenting style over location. I grew up in a suburb, and worked for my money. Yes, it is anecdotal evidence, and I have no idea what the actual trends are (I wonder if there have been any studies?), but none the less.

I mean, I could claim that being from New England makes you have less of an entitlement complex and a better work ethic because we still have the puritain concept of "Idle hands are the devils play thing"...



You did hijack. You posted something without ever drawing a connection to the discussion at hand.

Person 1:"why is the sky blue?"
Person 2:"Well, because oxygen reflects blue light"
Person 1:"But there isn't much oxygen when compared to other chemicals"
Person 2:"There is a signifigant amount tho"
You: "Chicken"
Everyone else: "What. the. fuck."


Either state your argument and point, or stop talking.




YOUR INABILITY TO DRAW CONNECTIONS BETWEEN THINGS IN REALITY IS NOT MY PROBLEM.

JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE A DULLARD DOES NOT MEAN THAT I AM THE CAUSE.

I mean, I could claim that being from New England makes you have less of an entitlement complex and a better work ethic because we still have the puritain concept of "Idle hands are the devils play thing"...

Yeesh!

I want to get as far away from my puritan ancestry as possible!

Good work ethic is important. But I like to just lay around the house sometimes. Everyone needs to put their feet up every so often.

And am I demonically possessed as a result? Nooope!

*head rotates 360 degrees*

no bollox there. i told someone to figure it out for themselves. i did so because a lesson learned alone is worth its weight in gold, a lesson learned through rote creates a mindless drone.This is a debate. State your point, back it up, wait for response. you aren't Socrates. You aren't Confuscious. State your point and support it.

so

figure it out yourself.One cannot "figure it out" without the requisite pieces. I could come up with many different reasons why you would post only one word. However, don't be surprised if there are misunderstandings.
For example, my explination for you posting the word "fascist" and refusing to explain yourself is that you are a troll.

PART of my point:

Many have exhibited their fascist tendencies in response to my postings.
Then you fail at reading comp.

ANOTHER point:

IF people weren't such fascist pigs,

THEN we would have to worry about the question to begin with.

But, people do tend to be fascist pigs. They refuse to consider the innumerable variables that go into creating a human being. They make false assumptions in order to navigate life. Most people practically rely on stereotypes to make decisions regarding other people's lives, AS OPPOSED TO USING A MORE INQUISITIVE AND OBJECTIVE MODE OF DECISION MAKING.


A wise, old chinaman once said,

"Man who leap off cliff jump to conclusion."
k...we're getting closer to an actual relevant, coherant point here...but not quite there yet.
Yes, in a perfect world, we wouldn't have to worry about adult children remaining at home. But we live in the real world.

Now. What does the definition of fascist have to do with this?

HOW DOES YOUR POST OF THE WORD FASCIST RELATE TO THE TOPIC AT HAND.

I am sick to death of the glorification of farming. It doesn't teach you jack shit that can't be taught with chores and the responsibility of succeding in school.

I'm also dead tired of this "entitlement" nonsense. There is nothing "entitled" about living with your parents when you simply cannot afford to move out. There is nothing "entitled" about trying to actually get to go to college. Claims to the contrary are bellyaching and self-glorification.

"Why, back in my day, we had to work three jobs, while walking uphill both ways, three miles in the snow, just to get to go to college!" :p

I happen to agree ... my point for some reason happens to be muddled with his for some reason.

So I am going to try to make my points (or views) clear so I dont get confused

1)Working your way at the age of 18 and before can be done, my whole point was that I can and did it and recently, and both of my brothers are doing it right now.
2)That there is nothing wrong with living with your parents if you need to
3)There is nothing wrong with getting help paying for school (loans or whatever), whatever helps you accomplish the goal you set in life
4)That I think parenting has more effect on work ethic and such then the location
5) That (at least in my personal experience which is in no way enough information to base anything on beyond that) work ethic in the area is heavily stressed I parenting by the farmers (though they are very deficent in other areas)

Yeesh!

I want to get as far away from my puritan ancestry as possible!

Good work ethic is important. But I like to just lay around the house sometimes. Everyone needs to put their feet up every so often.
haha...yes, all work and no play does tend to make Jack a dull boy...but we do still have that work ethic in full play around here.

YOUR INABILITY TO DRAW CONNECTIONS BETWEEN THINGS IN REALITY IS NOT MY PROBLEM.

JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE A DULLARD DOES NOT MEAN THAT I AM THE CAUSE.
And your inability to state a coherant, relevant point or debate with a single ounce of skill is not my problem.
However, you are now moving into flaming, and that does become my problem. I suggest you check your holier-than-thou attitude at the door, as it will not be tolerated here. Your obsession with your intelligence is little more than a pissing contest, and you will, without a doubt, lose that contest to many posters around here. And those tend to be the ones who don't have to wave their proverbial dick.

YOUR INABILITY TO DRAW CONNECTIONS BETWEEN THINGS IN REALITY IS NOT MY PROBLEM.

JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE A DULLARD DOES NOT MEAN THAT I AM THE CAUSE.

In a debate forum it is in fact "your problem"

Your claim of intelligence just continues to become less believable with each post.

no bollox there. i told someone to figure it out for themselves. i did so because a lesson learned alone is worth its weight in gold, a lesson learned through rote creates a mindless drone.


Ahhh I see now the blanket denial. Another word for this type of denial is lie!

So lets see, you come in, attempt to hijack the thread, act in a manor that makes multiple people 'talk' to you about it, and then lie.

I call TROLL!


As to the other point here really? You claim to be 99% more intelengent than everybody else and yet here you come at us with this twaddle:

'i told someone to figure it out for themselves. i did so because a lesson learned alone is worth its weight in gold, a lesson learned through rote creates a mindless drone'

So you would rather see us all try to figure it out for ourselves than be guided by those who would teach us? It strikes me then that with such a system one can make up anything and claim it as certian knowldge.

Like all blacks are inferior and must be culled. Or Only Christainity has the truth of everything.

So can I now claim to be 99% more intelegant than you?

Well you can take my opinion I grew up on a farm and now am in the "real world" of IT Work and for a bit there education.
(I had to stop the farm stuff a year or so ago as I reached critical mass on time ... made it through my undergrad though)

As far as it goes the area I am in is still family heavy lots of small (200ish acer) farms and has not been taken over by bigger industries.

As far as it goes I do not necessarily think it prepps you more for the "real world" I think good parenting style does that more then anything, it just happens to have a correlation between the two at least in our area. At least for the working world ... some of the other parenting "techniques" utilized by a lot of the farmers up here (up to and including my parents) were NOT so beneficial ... they are overly harsh and contain a lot of bad messages I think.

(sorry if this sounds muddled lol it is such a vague topic and I am not being clear as I can be)

Not muddled at all.

But I agree. No amount of toil or the surroundings you grew up in can fully replace good advice and supervision by a parent.

Nuture over nature in this case.

which, i guess is why i turned out to be more intelligent and reasonable than 99% of the population.
99% of the population have higher IQ than 99% of the population.

Proven by the Internet.

99% of the population have higher IQ than 99% of the population.

Proven by the Internet.

No, I think this guy just OD'd on "self-esteem".

Self-esteem, in proper quantities, can be very helpful. But too much of anything can be harmful.

Not muddled at all.

But I agree. No amount of toil or the surroundings you grew up in can fully replace good advice and supervision by a parent.

Nuture over nature in this case.

Agreed though at least in my experience on a "family farm" your parents are ALWAYS there supervising you and giving advice even when you want them to shut up :p

That and there is no choice but to have you work with them hard, unless you want the farm to go bankrupt that is

But it may just be a case of the situation making it easier to do the things that are benifical

Aww, he left.

Also, a little late, but points to Bolol for the Willy Wonka usage.

I SAID GOOD DAY SIR! :p

Agreed though at least in my experience on a "family farm" your parents are ALWAYS there supervising you and giving advice even when you want them to shut up :p

That and there is no choice but to have you work with them hard, unless you want the farm to go bankrupt that is

But it may just be a case of the situation making it easier to do the things that are benifical

Situation and environment, ultimately seem to be a "secondary" attribute to parenting.

...But there are always exceptions. A particularly extreme environment could hinder parenting. I doubt anyone could be a good parent on...say...an abandoned desert isle (http://www.fiftiesweb.com/tv/gilligans-c.jpg)...

Situation and environment, ultimately seem to be a "secondary" attribute to parenting.

...But there are always exceptions. A particularly extreme environment could hinder parenting. I doubt anyone could be a good parent on...say...an abandoned desert isle (http://www.fiftiesweb.com/tv/gilligans-c.jpg)...

Absolutely I agree

False! I belive in God and yet do not feel superior to anybody.
False again, I belive in God, and yet am a feind for science.

haha...yes, all work and no play does tend to make Jack a dull boy...but we do still have that work ethic in full play around here.


And your inability to state a coherant, relevant point or debate with a single ounce of skill is not my problem.
However, you are now moving into flaming, and that does become my problem. I suggest you check your holier-than-thou attitude at the door, as it will not be tolerated here. Your obsession with your intelligence is little more than a pissing contest, and you will, without a doubt, lose that contest to many posters around here. And those tend to be the ones who don't have to wave their proverbial dick.



the coherence and relevance of my points is directly related to the receivers ability to process and integrate the facts of the points through their own subjective perception of reality. as most have exhibited through their unnecessary, exaggerated reactions, people have a difficult time accepting anything outside of their PREsumptions regarding reality. i don't have an obsession with my intelligence, but the people here do. my intelligence was brought into question, so i stated the facts regarding said intelligence. if anyone feels threatened by those facts, then it is their insecurity and emotional instability that leads them to create a false picture regarding me and what i've done here.

the only reason that I was brought into this at all (the "I" that identifies my self) is because i was attacked for not following some arbitrary protocol. I have no need to wave my dick, i already know it's a great dick, and i don't need anyone to confirm it for me.

ANOTHER PART OF MY POINT:

Most people are fascist pigs who feel the need to maliciously defame and punish people unnecessarily when they don't obey arbitrary authority.

How all this relates to the orignial debate should be quite obvious by now. And, I'm sorry if anyone couldn't or can't figure it out; not sorry that I didn't communicate "correctly," but sorry for them and their lack of intelligence and sorry for the rest of society that will suffer as a result of their ignorance, prejudice, and malicious modes of punishment and damnation.

peas!


(((obv, i didn't leave, i timed out)

the coherence and relevance of my points is directly related to the receivers ability to process and integrate the facts of the points through their own subjective perception of reality. *snip* people have a difficult time accepting anything outside of their PREsumptions regarding reality.

I think this is perhaps the truest and only thing of sense that you have said today. Yet I still can't help feeling, it's not on topic is it.

Tell me though, this does include you yes?


Ohh and one good way to determine on these type of places how hard you have hit the mark, is to take carefull note of which of your words go unanswered. So many thanks for the claryfacation on my own intelegence.

You are a sweet sweet man? Woman?

the coherence and relevance of my points is directly related to the receivers ability to process and integrate the facts of the points through their own subjective perception of reality. as most have exhibited through their unnecessary, exaggerated reactions, people have a difficult time accepting anything outside of their PREsumptions regarding reality. i don't have an obsession with my intelligence, but the people here do. my intelligence was brought into question, so i stated the facts regarding said intelligence. if anyone feels threatened by those facts, then it is their insecurity and emotional instability that leads them to create a false picture regarding me and what i've done here.[
This is a debate forum, not a Socratic dialogue. Anyone can sit there and say a random word and then insult others for not "getting" it. All that succeeds in doing is making that person look, well, stubborn, stupid, and rude. Either state your point in a clear, concise manner, or don't expect a positive response. We don't have time to go through seven pages of beating your point out of you for every single post. Make your point already.
Yes, part of the relevance and coherance of your posts comes from the readers ability. HOWEVER, without a decent post to begin with, such as just a definition of a word copied and pasted with no further commentary, the failure is on you, not us.
the only reason that I was brought into this at all (the "I" that identifies my self) is because i was attacked for not following some arbitrary protocol. I have no need to wave my dick, i already know it's a great dick, and i don't need anyone to confirm it for me.Everyone else here follows that protocal for a reason. Those who don't tend to not last very long before they are deated for flaming, trolling, and general asshatery.

ANOTHER PART OF MY POINT:

Most people are fascist pigs who feel the need to maliciously defame and punish people unnecessarily when they don't obey arbitrary authority.

How all this relates to the orignial debate should be quite obvious by now. And, I'm sorry if anyone couldn't or can't figure it out; not sorry that I didn't communicate "correctly," but sorry for them and their lack of intelligence and sorry for the rest of society that will suffer as a result of their ignorance, prejudice, and malicious modes of punishment and damnation.

peas!
Right. and you aren't waving your dick here? Really, you could have just stated your point. Seven pages ago. Without the condescending bullshit.

[/hijack]

How all this relates to the orignial debate should be quite obvious by now. And, I'm sorry if anyone couldn't or can't figure it out; not sorry that I didn't communicate "correctly," but sorry for them and their lack of intelligence and sorry for the rest of society that will suffer as a result of their ignorance, prejudice, and malicious modes of punishment and damnation.

Enlighten me. It's evident I'm so retarded I shouldn't be able to breathe, let alone type, by your standards, so do explain, wise and brilliant master.

I await your pearls of wisdom.

Of course the point you are making loses 99% credibility coming from you.

Upward managed to do it too. So do many people.

Situation and environment, ultimately seem to be a "secondary" attribute to parenting.

...But there are always exceptions. A particularly extreme environment could hinder parenting. I doubt anyone could be a good parent on...say...an abandoned desert isle (http://www.fiftiesweb.com/tv/gilligans-c.jpg)...

I think this is perhaps the truest and only thing of sense that you have said today. Yet I still can't help feeling, it's not on topic is it.

Tell me though, this does include you yes?



My focus in life for the last 14 years has been to remove all prejudice and subjectivity from my perception. My teenage years and adult life have been largely devoted to finding the truth behind the lies we are ALL told during childhood. To appease you, sure, it applies to me to some degree (does that make you feel better when i tell you i'm not perfect?).

The difference between me and most people (and, if there is anything i'm proud of, this is it):

i would never actually limit your freedom for your choice to disagree, while most people think it perfectly reasonable to limit somebody else's freedom at the first HINT of non-comformity to authority.

My focus in life for the last 14 years has been to remove all prejudice and subjectivity from my perception. My teenage years and adult life have been largely devoted to finding the truth behind the lies we are ALL told during childhood. To appease you, sure, it applies to me to some degree (does that make you feel better when i tell you i'm not perfect?).

The difference between me and most people (and, if there is anything i'm proud of, this is it):

i would never actually limit your freedom for your choice to disagree, while most people think it perfectly reasonable to limit somebody else's freedom at the first HINT of non-comformity to authority.

I find that ironic when you show disdain for the views of those lesser than you.

This is a debate forum, not a Socratic dialogue. Anyone can sit there and say a random word and then insult others for not "getting" it. All that succeeds in doing is making that person look, well, stubborn, stupid, and rude. Either state your point in a clear, concise manner, or don't expect a positive response. We don't have time to go through seven pages of beating your point out of you for every single post. Make your point already.
Everyone else here follows that protocal for a reason. Those who don't tend to not last very long before they are deated for flaming, trolling, and general asshatery.


Right. and you aren't waving your dick here? Really, you could have just stated your point. Seven pages ago. Without the condescending bullshit.



The last 6 pages were protocol, eh?

LMAO

come on...

at very least,

you helped prove my primary point:

most people are fascist

fascist people make up false realities in order to justify their authority

fascist people are the masters of double standards and doublespeak

fascist people will always seek to punish others before examining their own faults.

my primary point:

you people are fascist and a primary cause of the problems you bitch about

Aww, he left.

Also, a little late, but points to Bolol for the Willy Wonka usage.

I SAID GOOD DAY SIR! :p

I also do anniversary parties.

AND NOW.

Fleckenstein, UpwardThrust, Sarkhaan, Peepelonia...that guy...and the rest!

I must eat...

damn hungry...

*flees*

The last 6 pages were protocol, eh?

LMAO

come on...

at very least,

you helped prove my primary point:

most people are fascist

fascist people make up false realities in order to justify their authority

fascist people are the masters of double standards and doublespeak

fascist people will always seek to punish others before examining their own faults.

my primary point:

you people are fascist and a primary cause of the problems you bitch about

Reposted:

What . . . the . . . fuck . . . does . . . that . . . have . . . to . . . do . . . with . . . anything . . . we're . . . discussing. . . in . . . this . . . thread; . . . specifically. . . . Adult . . . children . . . that . . . stay . . . home?

I figured your superior intellect would be too busy thinking of a better argument so I slowed it down for you.

I also do anniversary parties.

AND NOW.

Fleckenstein, UpwardThrust, Sarkhaan, Peepelonia...that guy...and the rest!

I must eat...

damn hungry...

*flees*

good day :)

I find that ironic when you show disdain for the views of those lesser than you.



There's no irony when you look at reality.

I have GREAT DISDAIN for your views.

I have utter respect for your person and your right to live as you see fit.

That's the problem.

You have fascist tendencies.

To repeat a previous message:

The difference between us is that i would never condone actually punishing you for your non-comformity, whereas, a fascist, by definition, punishes everyone for non-conformity.

My focus in life for the last 14 years has been to remove all prejudice and subjectivity from my perception. My teenage years and adult life have been largely devoted to finding the truth behind the lies we are ALL told during childhood. To appease you, sure, it applies to me to some degree (does that make you feel better when i tell you i'm not perfect?).

The difference between me and most people (and, if there is anything i'm proud of, this is it):

i would never actually limit your freedom for your choice to disagree, while most people think it perfectly reasonable to limit somebody else's freedom at the first HINT of non-comformity to authority.

Ahh now that is interesting, you are starting to make me feel a bit warmer towards you. Make me feel better? No I feel fine anyhow, I asked to ascertian just how much of a prat you really where.

How does one even begin to rid himself of subjectivity though? I would like to tell you that it doesn't seem to be working, you do seem still to be full of you.

The very words you use indicate this, 'My focus', 'My perceptions' all show that it seems impossible to rid your self of subjectivy. What for example would be your new frame of referance?

Reposted:

What . . . the . . . fuck . . . does . . . that . . . have . . . to . . . do . . . with . . . anything . . . we're . . . discussing. . . in . . . this . . . thread; . . . specifically. . . . Adult . . . children . . . that . . . stay . . . home?

I figured your superior intellect would be too busy thinking of a better argument so I slowed it down for you.

you are either biologically retarded or willfully ignorant.


THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO WOULD GIVE A RATS ASS ABOUT WHAT SOMEONE DOES WITH THEIR LIFE ARE FASCIST PIG NAZIS!

There's no irony when you look at reality.

I have GREAT DISDAIN for your views.

I have utter respect for your person and your right to live as you see fit.

That's the problem.

You have fascist tendencies.

To repeat a previous message:

The difference between us is that i would never condone actually punishing you for your non-comformity, whereas, a fascist, by definition, punishes everyone for non-conformity.

I do? Please provide examples.

Can I suggest something? Stop feeding the troll and it will go away.

THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO WOULD GIVE A RATS ASS ABOUT WHAT SOMEONE DOES WITH THEIR LIFE ARE FASCIST PIG NAZIS!

Ah, so if you care whether your best friend has a decent go at life, you're a fascist pig nazi?

you are either biologically retarded or willfully ignorant.


THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO WOULD GIVE A RATS ASS ABOUT WHAT SOMEONE DOES WITH THEIR LIFE ARE FASCIST PIG NAZIS!

Umm not concerned parents?

Are you really saying that the biologiocal imperitive to provide, care and shelter for our children is actualy a show of fasicim?

Here is another word for you to pondewr on, in the light of your general rudness, shouting and apperant lack of understanding of social norms. Socialpath.

you are either biologically retarded or willfully ignorant.


THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO WOULD GIVE A RATS ASS ABOUT WHAT SOMEONE DOES WITH THEIR LIFE ARE FASCIST PIG NAZIS!

See? That only took five pages of bullshit. :)

Ah, so if you care whether your best friend has a decent go at life, you're a fascist pig nazi?

I knew you weren't that bad of a person, deep down, RO. Good show.

Saenjehwa, by any chance are you 13 with intrusive parents who you refuse to confront and instead substitute with the members of this forum?

see? We have a clear and concise point (ignoring the fact that nazi and fascist are opposing view points). Now we can finally actually discuss the issue at hand.
you are either biologically retarded or willfully ignorant.


THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO WOULD GIVE A RATS ASS ABOUT WHAT SOMEONE DOES WITH THEIR LIFE ARE FASCIST PIG NAZIS!

Not in this case. The article posted in the OP discusses foster children who want to recieve benefits untill the age of 21. Foster children recieve benefits from the state, which comes from tax money, which I contribute to.

Now, as for children choosing to live at home, I have no problem with that. I have several friends who are doing it now, and it is an increasing trend in recent years. But I'm not paying for them to do so.

Does anyone ever really want to start paying rent and cleaning up after themselves?

I mean, why if you could get someone else to do it for free?

I would, I hate feeling useless.

It seems unfair to exclude (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070813/ap_on_re_us/foster_care_age_limits) foster kids from this bonanza that many young adult children experience. Just think, the lucky kids with parents can stay at home, not pay rent, have someone else do their cleaning...But foster kids lose their financial support from the government at the instant they turn 18. After all, as Mr. Anthony Pico puts it, "“I’m an adult, but I don’t want to move out. I don’t want to start paying rent."

Why should we make him?

Because he is an adult and we expect adults to be self-sufficient.

I had to move back with my parents to help my mom take care of my dad after he had a major stroke.

In addition to paying rent, doing chores, and helping care for my dad, I also work full time and am paying my own way through college.

Not all adult children at home are there to take advantage of a good situation...for many the situation is far from ideal.

Saenjehwa, by any chance are you 13 with intrusive parents who you refuse to confront and instead substitute with the members of this forum?

You're a big forum winner!

Vanna, show Fleckenstein what he's won!

http://www.willamette.edu/~sbasu/poli212/Machiavelli2_files/image008.jpg

I had to move back with my parents to help my mom take care of my dad after he had a major stroke.

In addition to paying rent, doing chores, and helping care for my dad, I also work full time and am paying my own way through college.

Not all adult children at home are there to take advantage of a good situation...for many the situation is far from ideal.

Very true point ... I have been blessed with a healthy family which is not always the case

I would, I hate feeling useless.

While I don't enjoy actually having to give up that much money at a time, I gotta agree. If I'm not cooking for myself, or taking care of myself in some way, there really isn't a point to me being here.

That said, one can live at home and still take care of themselves (paying some amount of rent to parents, cooking for themselves, doing laundry for themselves, etc)

I had to move back with my parents to help my mom take care of my dad after he had a major stroke.

In addition to paying rent, doing chores, and helping care for my dad, I also work full time and am paying my own way through college.

Not all adult children at home are there to take advantage of a good situation...for many the situation is far from ideal.

I on the other hand have not asked my folx for any help since the day I left them. Heh down to me dad I guess.

You're a big forum winner!

Vanna, show Fleckenstein what he's won!

http://www.willamette.edu/~sbasu/poli212/Machiavelli2_files/image008.jpg

Aww, I wanted the brand new 1995 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme. :(

I on the other hand have not asked my folx for any help since the day I left them. Heh down to me dad I guess.

When relatives offer to help, it rarely comes without strings attached.

When relatives offer to help, it rarely comes without strings attached.

Heh thats a very subjective statement to make, I guess it all depends on what your relly's are like huh!

Ahh now that is interesting, you are starting to make me feel a bit warmer towards you. Make me feel better? No I feel fine anyhow, I asked to ascertian just how much of a prat you really where.

How does one even begin to rid himself of subjectivity though? I would like to tell you that it doesn't seem to be working, you do seem still to be full of you.

The very words you use indicate this, 'My focus', 'My perceptions' all show that it seems impossible to rid your self of subjectivy. What for example would be your new frame of referance?


subjectivity as it relates to another person's character.

start with the fact that everyone is born biologically unique.

add the fact that everyone goes through different experiences.

add the fact that everyone changes every moment they exist.

add the fact that, barring biological malady, humans have amazing, awe inspiring potential.

what it comes down to is simply refusing to make a permanent judgment regarding another individual.

unfortunately, most of our society was built on foundations of prejudice that simply will not disappear without a total overhaul (this gets into tangents not directly related to adults living at home).

the use of words to describe states of reality ("my perception") does not indicate that "my perception" is subjective; it simply indicates that in order for me to communicate to you that which has been a part of my life, i must use the words "me my i, etc"


this new fad of using "we our" instead of first person pronouns is a bunch of f'n bullshit, now, instead of stating "your" piece, you get to speak for me by using the word "we" instead of I?

blah...

e.g.

man on street tells you to "Watch where you're going you fuckin moron!" after you bumped into him

subjective reaction: "what an asshole"
objective reaction: "whoah, what boiled his kettle?"

being objective is the equivalent of being willing to replace emotional snap judgment with a more considerate and emotionless evaluation.

as regards message board chatter, or any chatter for that matter, i've never understood why people get so upset over labels. "sticks and stones?"

idk

life calls though

peas out yo's

*snippity*

So, in other words, you never need to be responsible for your actions? Other things are always the cause? Humans are infallible?

see? We have a clear and concise point (ignoring the fact that nazi and fascist are opposing view points). Now we can finally actually discuss the issue at hand.


Not in this case. The article posted in the OP discusses foster children who want to recieve benefits untill the age of 21. Foster children recieve benefits from the state, which comes from tax money, which I contribute to.

Now, as for children choosing to live at home, I have no problem with that. I have several friends who are doing it now, and it is an increasing trend in recent years. But I'm not paying for them to do so.


The reason i post definitions is because i'm aware of the fact that a lot of people instantly dismiss anything they "perceive" to be "subjective." People are lot more likely to believe you if you tell them SOMEBODY ELSE'S OPINION, or site an "expert"

Main Entry: Na·zi
Pronunciation: 'nät-sE, 'nat-
Function: noun
Etymology: German, by shortening & alteration from Nationalsozialist, from national national + Sozialist socialist
1 : a member of a German fascist party controlling Germany from 1933 to 1945 under Adolf Hitler
2 often not capitalized a : one who espouses the beliefs and policies of the German Nazis : FASCIST b : one who is likened to a German Nazi : a harshly domineering, dictatorial, or intolerant person
- nazi adjective, often capitalized
- na·zi·fi·ca·tion /"nät-si-f&-'kA-sh&n, "nat-/ noun, often capitalized
- na·zi·fy /'nät-si-"fI, 'nat-/ transitive verb, often capitalized

Heh thats a very subjective statement to make, I guess it all depends on what your relly's are like huh!

Mine sucked, so I didn't bother to ask.

Does anyone ever really want to start paying rent and cleaning up after themselves?

I mean, why if you could get someone else to do it for free?
Because usually getting someone else to do it means that there are strings attached, such as a lack of freedom, curfews, having to tell mommy where you are at any given time et c.

So, in other words, you never need to be responsible for your actions? Other things are always the cause? Humans are infallible?

And this is more valuable than my OPing of "fascism?"

you making false assumptions and spouting bullshit universals is protocol?

humans are obv fallible.

that doesn't mean they need a mystical daddy beating them with his proverbial dick in order to straighten them out.

wait til nanobots give us eternal life, then all you god fearing tards won't be able to create a false reality where humans are portrayed as fundamentally weak and in need of arbitrary authority.

wait til nanobots give us eternal life, then all you god fearing tards won't be able to create a false reality where humans are portrayed as fundamentally weak and in need of arbitrary authority.

If we require nanobots for eternal life, we'll be beholden to the nanobots, who will view us as fundamentally weak, and in need of arbitrary authority.

The reason i post definitions is because i'm aware of the fact that a lot of people instantly dismiss anything they "perceive" to be "subjective." People are lot more likely to believe you if you tell them SOMEBODY ELSE'S OPINION, or site an "expert"

Main Entry: Na·zi
Pronunciation: 'nät-sE, 'nat-
Function: noun
Etymology: German, by shortening & alteration from Nationalsozialist, from national national + Sozialist socialist
1 : a member of a German fascist party controlling Germany from 1933 to 1945 under Adolf Hitler
2 often not capitalized a : one who espouses the beliefs and policies of the German Nazis : FASCIST b : one who is likened to a German Nazi : a harshly domineering, dictatorial, or intolerant person
- nazi adjective, often capitalized
- na·zi·fi·ca·tion /"nät-si-f&-'kA-sh&n, "nat-/ noun, often capitalized
- na·zi·fy /'nät-si-"fI, 'nat-/ transitive verb, often capitalized

Please leave the thread it is apparent that this is pointless to the topic at hand, if you wish a debate on that topic we would be more then happy to argue it on a thread of that topic

And this is more valuable than my OPing of "fascism?"

you making false assumptions and spouting bullshit universals is protocol?

humans are obv fallible.

that doesn't mean they need a mystical daddy beating them with his proverbial dick in order to straighten them out.

wait til nanobots give us eternal life, then all you god fearing tards won't be able to create a false reality where humans are portrayed as fundamentally weak and in need of arbitrary authority.

I'm done here. You crossed the line in the sand.

JC Denton: "Electronic surveillance hardly inspires reverence. Perhaps fear and obedience, but not reverence."
Morpheus: "God and the gods were apparitions of observation, judgement and punishment. Other sentiments towards them were secondary."
JC Denton: "No one will ever worship a software entity peering at them through a camera."
Morpheus: "The human organism always worships. First, it was the gods, then it was fame (the observation and judgement of others), next it will be self-aware systems you have built to realise truly omnipresent observation and judgement."
JC Denton: "You underestimate humankind's love of freedom."
Morpheus: "The individual desires judgement. Without that desire, the cohesion of groups is impossible, and so is civilisation."

subjectivity as it relates to another person's character.

start with the fact that everyone is born biologically unique.

add the fact that everyone goes through different experiences.

add the fact that everyone changes every moment they exist.

add the fact that, barring biological malady, humans have amazing, awe inspiring potential.

what it comes down to is simply refusing to make a permanent judgment regarding another individual.

unfortunately, most of our society was built on foundations of prejudice that simply will not disappear without a total overhaul (this gets into tangents not directly related to adults living at home).

the use of words to describe states of reality ("my perception") does not indicate that "my perception" is subjective; it simply indicates that in order for me to communicate to you that which has been a part of my life, i must use the words "me my i, etc"


this new fad of using "we our" instead of first person pronouns is a bunch of f'n bullshit, now, instead of stating "your" piece, you get to speak for me by using the word "we" instead of I?

blah...

e.g.

man on street tells you to "Watch where you're going you fuckin moron!" after you bumped into him

subjective reaction: "what an asshole"
objective reaction: "whoah, what boiled his kettle?"

being objective is the equivalent of being willing to replace emotional snap judgment with a more considerate and emotionless evaluation.

as regards message board chatter, or any chatter for that matter, i've never understood why people get so upset over labels. "sticks and stones?"

idki've never understood why people get so upset over labels. "sticks and stones?

life calls though

peas out yo's


Heh you are still funny. I love it.

Okay I get what you mean, I think though that you place far too much empahsis on what sociaty may have done or not. I don't see that sociaty was built on predujiced foundations, as much as I see that certian types of predujice is endemic to the human condition, I would place this firmly in the sphere of biology and not socialogy though.

What you are trying to do I do find to be a noble endevour, but one that is(as you have most aptly shown us) full of pridefull pitfalls. There really is nothing special in trying to treat all people on a person by person bais(which is basicly what you have just said) but to charge in and declare how differant you are because this is how you are trying to live shows basicaly two things.

Ignorance of basic human thoughts and feelings, and such a massive ego it would take years to describe it. I mean do you really thing that you are the only person on this particular path? What do yo think the rational is behind the better religoins?

And then you aptly show us both your contempt for others and your lack of understanding of your onw path when you declare:

'this new fad of using "we our" instead of first person pronouns is a bunch of f'n bullshit'

And then right on it's back:

'i've never understood why people get so upset over labels. "sticks and stones?'

So you show us your contempt for human anger, and then your own human anger. Can you really not see the hypocrasy in this.

I hope to see you here again tomorrow, I think you can be fun, and I think you can perhaps tread your road if you rein in your ego a bit.

Because usually getting someone else to do it means that there are strings attached, such as a lack of freedom, curfews, having to tell mommy where you are at any given time et c.
Definatly. Even with my family, where those rules are not explicitly stated, I know that my mom doesn't sleep untill me and my sister are home if we are staying in the house (makes no sense since we spend most of the year living elsewhere), we feel guilty and that sometimes forces us to cut the night short.
wait til nanobots give us eternal life, then all you god fearing tards won't be able to create a false reality where humans are portrayed as fundamentally weak and in need of arbitrary authority.
I strongly suggest you watch the flaming and flamebaiting.
Main Entry: Na·zi
irrelevant to this thread and this topic. Create a new thread if you wish to discuss it further. Otherwise, discuss the actual topic of this thread.

Yeah, if you look at only a specific kind of work, you're right. But city children can, and often do, still have chores to do around the house. No, it isn't going to be going out and milking the cows at 5 AM, but there are chores to be done, and things to help the family with.
and farm kids for the most part do those same chores, and help with the farm, it's not "oh, go milk the cows but you don't have to clean your room" it's work a 10 hour day and then do your chores.

Again, I say it comes down to parenting style over location. I grew up in a suburb, and worked for my money. Yes, it is anecdotal evidence, and I have no idea what the actual trends are (I wonder if there have been any studies?), but none the less.
of course it's anecdotal, I never said otherwise, but yes, parenting style wins over where you live, but in my own anecdotal experience farm kids work more with the family than city kids.

and farm kids for the most part do those same chores, and help with the farm, it's not "oh, go milk the cows but you don't have to clean your room" it's work a 10 hour day and then do your chores.

True. But, now that I'm thinking about it, many of my friends families had some kind of small business that the kids had to help out with...things like a pizza place, or a dry cleaner.
And then we have my parents, where I couldn't work for them, but somehow they still made me appreciate what I had.
of course it's anecdotal, I never said otherwise, but yes, parenting style wins over where you live, but in my own anecdotal experience farm kids work more with the family than city kids.

quite possibly true.

hmm...makes me wonder about my town...we had several small farms, but nothing huge, where the kids were simultaneously farm and suburban...

True. But, now that I'm thinking about it, many of my friends families had some kind of small business that the kids had to help out with...things like a pizza place, or a dry cleaner.
And then we have my parents, where I couldn't work for them, but somehow they still made me appreciate what I had.
it's still a bit different. I get what you are saying though.

it's still a bit different. I get what you are saying though.

*shrug* Sadly, I never got the experience of being a farm boy. Maybe before I get too old I'll go work on one...

*shrug* Sadly, I never got the experience of being a farm boy. Maybe before I get too old I'll go work on one...

my uncle will need help with the wheat harvest. I can't do it anymore.

True. But, now that I'm thinking about it, many of my friends families had some kind of small business that the kids had to help out with...things like a pizza place, or a dry cleaner.

The connection that I made very early was that chores were not just make-work. They actually contributed to the well-being of our family. We had a dairy farm, so most of the work I did took place very early and very late. If I didn't get the cows milked by the time the truck showed up, we lost that day's revenue. That's a lot more responsibility than most city kids take on with chores like making the bed, etc. That's neither good, nor bad, it just is.

What that additional responsibility does encourage, however, is a much more mature outlook -- including a more developed sense of self-sufficiency.
###
Back to the OP... There is certainly a point at which point a child should be strongly encouraged to leave home. Maybe it's eighteen, maybe twenty-on, maybe thirty-five...

With foster kids, the state has decided that it will cease to subsidize them at 18.

Maybe we shouldn't expect eighteen year-olds to assume the responsibility of adulthood. But if we don't, let's not make them legal adults. It shouldn't be both ways.

*shrug* Sadly, I never got the experience of being a farm boy. Maybe before I get too old I'll go work on one...
It's interesting. My parents died before they were ready to retire and before I could really afford the farm. I ended up selling the livestock and renting the land. I'll probably sell eventually.

Anyway, to get a farm now-a-days, I'm convinced you have to marry into it. I lucked out and married a girl from rural Georgia. We're waiting until her parents are ready to retire and then we'll take over the farm until we can't work it anymore. Hopefully there's a generation behind us that will want to work it after that.

The connection that I made very early was that chores were not just make-work. They actually contributed to the well-being of our family. We had a dairy farm, so most of the work I did took place very early and very late. If I didn't get the cows milked by the time the truck showed up, we lost that day's revenue. That's a lot more responsibility than most city kids take on with chores like making the bed, etc. That's neither good, nor bad, it just is.yeah, I got that. My point with that was that city kids can also be required to do work that translates to the well-being of the family, be it a farm or a dry cleaners.


Back to the OP... There is certainly a point at which point a child should be strongly encouraged to leave home. Maybe it's eighteen, maybe twenty-on, maybe thirty-five...
I like the system my parents worked out with me and my sister. We went to college, so when the dorms were closed, we lived at home. Any weekend we would like to be home is fine. Now that we have our own place, we live in Boston primarily, with some trips home (I, for example, will probably spend my winter break at home for a month)
After I graduate (if I don't do a masters program), I CAN move back in, but I will be expected to pay some form of rent to cover my use of utilities, food, etc. If I am still in school (masters program), they will continue to support me, but encourage a job more.


Maybe we shouldn't expect eighteen year-olds to assume the responsibility of adulthood. But if we don't, let's not make them legal adults. It shouldn't be both ways.

part of the issue is that of perception. Legally, an 18 year old is an adult (aside from the ability to drink). Socially, however, they are still an adolescent/"young adult". They have no marketable skills, and while they can find a job, it isn't usually the choice job.

I think a good system would be some form of compromise: if the foster child is going to college, give them some form of continued support. If they aren't, they need to become self-supportive.

It's interesting. My parents died before they were ready to retire and before I could really afford the farm. I ended up selling the livestock and renting the land. I'll probably sell eventually.

Anyway, to get a farm now-a-days, I'm convinced you have to marry into it. I lucked out and married a girl from rural Georgia. We're waiting until her parents are ready to retire and then we'll take over the farm until we can't work it anymore. Hopefully there's a generation behind us that will want to work it after that.yeah...I can definatly see that. I'm familiar with hard and physical work, and enjoy it. Just never done it on a farm

When you live in one of the most expensive housing areas in the country, living with your parents as an adult becomes a nesessity, rather than an option, especially when that is coupled with an excessively expensive post secondary school system. However, responsible parents do not let their children get away with a free ride. Rent should be paid upon reaching the age of 18 equal to an agreed upon portion of the subject's income. Failure to adequately search for employment should result in eviction. Special circumstances such as post secondary and disability may be taken into account.

Honestly, I'd love to be able to move out, but there's no way I'd be able to afford anything other than a hole in the wall in the crack neighbourhood. I'm still paying $250 to live with my parents, though.

One more reason I love pro-lifers: "Welcome to the world! We saved you from abortion!

Fuck off."Actually to note many of the people who are pro-lifers at least open admit to being againt abortionw hill many people who support it will never say that they support abortion.

It seems unfair to exclude (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070813/ap_on_re_us/foster_care_age_limits) foster kids from this bonanza that many young adult children experience. Just think, the lucky kids with parents can stay at home, not pay rent, have someone else do their cleaning...But foster kids lose their financial support from the government at the instant they turn 18. After all, as Mr. Anthony Pico puts it, "“I’m an adult, but I don’t want to move out. I don’t want to start paying rent."

Why should we make him?

Because he is an adult and we expect adults to be self-sufficient.

Well, if a kid is going to college, I think it's nice for the parents to let him stay there rent free. If he's 30 years old and unemployed or a perma-student, then parents need to give him a ticket to Real Life.

I strongly suggest you watch the flaming and flamebaiting.

I've been watching it.


Enjoy your week off for trolling, flaming, and flamebaiting, Saenjehwa.

Well, if a kid is going to college, I think it's nice for the parents to let him stay there rent free. If he's 30 years old and unemployed or a perma-student, then parents need to give him a ticket to Real Life.

*hides this post from her husband even though she isn't near 30 yet*

Smunkee, you are so NOT saying that you don't work.
:eek:

*hides this post from her husband even though she isn't near 30 yet*

Yeah, but you have a family, a job, a husband, a Real Life. I'm talking about those people who aren't being productive members of society.

Smunkee, you are so NOT saying that you don't work.
:eek:

I work, I am also currently nearly through with a masters degree that I will probably never ever ever use.